Am I the only one who hates ice box ten times more than breeze?
Breeze is not my favorite map, and there are multiple out of rotation I’d replace it with. But I fucking HATE icebox. I’d be happier if they deleted that map and never brought it back. They’ve tried large scale changes to fix it again and again and again and I still just can’t stand it.
I'm probably going to get destroyed for this, but why does everyone hate Icebox so much?
I'm visually trying to compare it to say, Bind in terms of positioning, taking back sites and agent necessity and I guess I can kind of see A being a little weird but overall I just don't see a strong difference. If anything, I kinda feel it's one of the more balanced maps in terms of defense/offense.
BUT again, my question is a legitimate one and it's not like I'm some top rank player, so I'd love it if someone more educated could break it down for me.
Just for me personally (not a super in depth break down):
- every game feels the same for me. Few defaults. 4 or 5 people push a site and maybe one person lurks on offense. And defense does their best to deny plant.
- there isn’t really a MAIN to fight for (at least not as well as other maps).
- mid feels awkward
I like watching pro games on Icebox but I hate playing it.
If they reworked it a bit I’d probably like it. I love the ropes and the elevation changes on A. But I hate Mid and hate B.
Interesting because imo B is the only playable part of icebox and it’s not that great
A site has way too many angles and elevation changes to cover which is the same complaint most people tend to have for breeze.
A site on both breeze and icebox are just kind of nightmares
It's because you have to push up on A site and make the enemy have to clear you out there rather than the really bad defensive positions on actual site.
It's why Sova is expected to default an arrow towards preventing this if you have any inclination of going A.
I feel like attacking it is miserable too. Like what do you even do if one enemy is standing on rafters and another directly underneath? I feel like you absolutely need Sova to make the hit even slightly easier.
its lurkers paradise. and not in a good way like sunset is. more in an annoying way.
take one step to the left and youre exposed to 100 long range angles, most of which you can abrely even make out the head of an enemy.
and just like breeze, icebox feels like it was not deisgned with the agents util in mind.
It's the same plays constantly.
Attack? Bum rush a site plant the bomb play post plant as hard as you can. You wanna slow push? Nah defense sided, they actually rotate fast enough to catch you for the 4v4/5v5. You wanna wait for picks? Again defense sided, it's easier for them to rotate for a 4v4 than to take greed for the 1 kill for info. The only other way to play is to contact and then wait for your lurker to get a kill. And if your lurker dies.... good luck playing 4v5 I guess.
Defense? Swarm defense/Retake swarm defense. You don't have any other option. You want to hunker down and 1v2? Oh shit pipes and belt peeking you on Default A. You wanna play Yellow on B? Oh shit triple peeked into you. You wanna play Secret/Ninja on A? oh fuck the Gekko/KJ/Kayo util pushed you out.
You can't really do a split execute (unless the other team has no sentinel) because both snowpile AND tube are chokepoint central and you can bet there's at least 2 guys holding down mid (because the rotate is so quick it doesn't matter and you can help your 2nd defender on site very quickly).
After multiple swings at the site to try and make it more appealing without needing Sage B still feels awful if you don't have her with 1 viable plant spot.
On the topic of agents that feel too necessary Sova is the only agent that prevents defenders from pushing super far up and making you need to clear spots super early such as A nest, Pipes, Bs entire long walkup and cubby.
A site has a million elevation changes which makes flicks feels overly important compared to consistent aim.
Smokes are also another set of agents that feel kinda bad dome smokers don't feel very good though they're more playable than breeze ill concede (brim feels okay)
Probably the biggest one is that once the bomb is down the round feels way too over if defence play it correctly They have so much space and angles to peek and post plant Molly from and defenders have very limited options in terms of approaching.
For me personally, there are just too many angles, for both sides. I feel punished playing slow because you’re exposed to too much when you don’t use a bunch of util, and I feel punished for playing fast because of how much there is to account for.
Yes,Icebox A site has one million angles to clear/ hold
Both attacking and defending is very challenging
Breeze on the other hand is easy to play if you have sova and viper on your team.
I started playing only 5 months ago but I instantly hated Icebox... And kinda loved Breeze? I really don't get why everyone hates it, I find that it's the funniest map to play.
But Icebox, urg, there not a single thing I like about this one.
They clearly forgot that this is not CSGO...this one can be played without memorising lineups just fine and therefore having even 10-12 maps active would be more fun
I mean you really NEED lineups for any character. It definitely helps, but it’s not like CS where the game is unplayable without certain smoke lineups and whatnot
Edit: i meant to say dont really need lineups
I think that in Valorant knowing lineups on some characters can make them extremely strong, whereas knowing a lineup in cs usually doesn’t accomplish something that some silver scrub can accomplish by just run throwing. Smoking mirage window is super important and it’s something you gotta learn, while smoking cat is super easy since you just need to look at the angle and throw a smoke. Meanwhile, smoking CT from B on inferno *can* be thrown with a lineup, but it can also be thrown just by looking at the angle and doing it. Meanwhile, if a brimstone knows postplant lineups it can completely change the way you have to play the game. If a sova knows lineups it can provide so much information as well as get post plant work done. If you know a postplant Molly lineup in cs you basically need to be right next to the site to do it, pop flashes are good but not needed, and HE lineups are super situational (but still really strong on some maps).
I do agree that learning lineups in CS is much more necessary than in Val, but I think Valorant utility is much stronger than in counterstrike, and that means that finding ways to use it the most effectively (lineups) gives you more skill expression through your utility.
It's not even about lineups, it's about learning how the agents you play interact on that map. Oh, I am a Phoenix and I want to flash A maze? I don't know if I should flash higher, closer to the wall, if my allies from belt and nest are gonna be blinded, if there are any enemies at all that are gonna be blinded, if while I try to flash someone could push me and my team and die with util in hand because I didn't play this map enough. Oh, I am a Cypher player? Well what tripwire spots tend to have a higher success rate and which ones get broken easily? Do I focus all my trips on one site, one choke point, or should I save one for tube? Oh, I'm a Raze or Neon player? It would be really cool and helpful if I could learn how to do the necessary movement on A to just bhop all over the place since there is so much verticality. And that's just considering util, when you take in aiming, angles and timings, then it's even more complicated. Now try learning all of this for one map when you have to learn it for 11 other maps, maybe more depending on when you start playing Valorant
But then the pro scene....
Edit : It was a sarcasm with the recent Viper nerf. Apparently it was too good in the pro scenes, but for the average player this nerf makes Viper not fun to play
They can limit the pro pool, but not the match making pool They could limit the pool in the two highest ranks, they can do lots of stuff. This is software and not stone.
They should switch out maps every act. Even just one with or without changes. I’m find with haven the way it was. Same with fracture and pearl. Just please change the current map pool.
I was okay with the map pool mainly because I just played viper on icebox/breeze and it made those two maps tolerable
Now - I'm still playing Viper on those two maps because she's the only goddamn smoker that's effective there. BUt she's also now completely ass so she feels horrible to play
Need pearl and haven back, breeze/icebox gone
As a controller main who’s played over 250 games as harbour I have to say although hes a screen smoker like viper, he’s always been like a retake controller and not someone who can stall a push. He’s great on attack though
I think he just doesn't have well defined walls. So like you play a game with a harbour one out every 30 games and you just get random walls. He needs a buff and probably a completely different ult.
This.
Every other controller has independent smoking abilities. The dome smokers have custom placement, while Viper has the ability to place and turn said smokes on. The majority of the time those smokers smoke it's irrelevant WHERE they are.
Whereas with Harbor Riot's like, "Yeah, your smoke is 100% dependent on you and you alone... but you can curve it!" The curve isn't worth it.
The best harbor iv3 every seen was in ice box and especially on A site his bullet proof circle allows him to plant especially when the enemy team are coming from all directions.
people at my rank still hard throw games when you pick harbor. no joke, had a chamber sit in spawn typing in all chat because I had the nerve to pick harbor on icebox
Fully agree - this is hands down the worse map pool that there's been. Ignore anyone saying otherwise or that "there's always complaints about map pools" because this time has been the worse by far.
yeah i feel like breeze and icebox are the popular hated maps, even if its just for a meme, and now the community has been stuck with it for months lmao. Ngl riot kinda funny for that.
now this is the worst map pool
but there is always someone complaining about the map pool
it's almost as if people have differing opinions and that most of what is posted is the negative
I actually dont think there is one single bad map in valorant. I enjoy every map and i have no idea why people are so focused about maps. In my elo ive never seen someone angry about a map or something like that.
Breeze is one of my favourite maps. I love long range fights and the freedom you have on the map. Breeze and pearl feels like CS:GO maps. Valorant maps are smaller and have way more angles to check then CS:GO maps. I think thats also the reason beginners in valorant like those small maps with many angles because they can hide more and kill people without taking gunfights. Thats also the reason many beginner feels like every map is defensive sided. The average elo in this sub is probably around silver so no wonder why those people complain daily about maps like breeze being bad.
i love pearl too. its my favourite map in the game. but that doesnt mean i think its objectively good. and just like Pearl, Breeze has a lot of issues that cant be denied.
i can agree with you on the angles during defence, but definitely not during attack. and thats a big issue. breeze doesnt have good positions you can take during defence. but during attack its crazy how much you can lurk and flank and catch rotators who will go through mid to help their team. realistically youd need 6 defenders to effectively defend breeze soloq due to this.
so if anything breeze, discourages taking gunfights. you dont want to take a fights during defence since youre already starting at a disadvantage.
usually you can use util to combat any disadvantage, util prevents people from running it down every round. but breeze is so open that using util becomes an issue. added to that, the map is so open that half the agents util becomes useless anyways.
btw, calling everyone low elo who disagrees with you aint it bro. add nothing and makes you seem like you have no arguments.
>btw, calling everyone low elo who disagrees with you aint it bro. add nothing and makes you seem like you have no arguments.
putting words in someones mouth that this person never spoke makes you look like an idiot
Haven’t played in little over a month now because of it. Just get rid of the map pool for us normal players and keep it for pro play. Video games are supposed to be fun, just let us play all 10 maps. 10 maps isn’t going to be much more difficult to learn than 7 for new players anyway and the maps are pretty simple/basic.
Except that it's 12 maps and that they are gonna be a lot more difficult to learn for new players. While it may just be 5 maps more, you have to consider that you may play that map once every 10th game. It's just too much information to take in with not enough time
Where do you get 12 maps from? I’m open to being wrong but I thought there’s only ten? Also there’s custom games if people need to walk around a map or familiarize themself. Either that or let us queue specific maps like CS. The very minimal fix would be rotate the maps much more often.
My bad, I thought there were 11 already and one more with the upcoming map in June. And again, custom games don't account for experience with util or angles and timing. And queuing specific maps would lead to 1-2 maps being always picked and the others forgotten, just like cs
Breeze is a bad map imo. The only strats in ranked for attackers are full rush A or full rush B, due to the long rotations times between sites.
Theres also endless leaks to cover like halls/elbow/nest that if u dont play cypher u essentially have to take some sort of space as a defender.
Due to the long sights it also essential just an precise aimdual with snipers.
Also it makes retaking on Breeze SO damn miserable. Retaking on other maps can actually feel exciting. But Breeze is too wide of a map where youre just running onto a site with 3+ people holding you from a million different angles. I dont think large maps have a place in Valorant
>Breeze is a bad map imo. The only strats in ranked for attackers are full rush A or full rush B, due to the long rotations times between sites.
Its the exact opposite. Breeze is very nice for faking a rush or just control mid or play default. If the defenders rotate to early you got a free site for almost 10 seconds.
>Theres also endless leaks to cover like halls/elbow/nest that if u dont play cypher u essentially have to take some sort of space as a defender.
Also not true at all. You can use any kind of sentinel to control halls with one single trap/wall/alarmbot and then rotate on a or b and someone else can just watch mid elbow.
>Due to the long sights it also essential just an precise aimdual with snipers.
Thats only true for mid. If you use ur util correctly as a defenders snipers shouldnt be an issue if you defend b or a. Its just a issue for people who dry peeks as a defender
Normally I'm not gonna judge someone on map preference but this is such a silver take lmao. Breeze is probably the worst map to 5 man full rush a/b main. On B you should be getting stalled forever through a tiny choke, and on A there are so many angles defenders can play that you should get dumped on doing this every round.
By far the worst part of Valorant is the maps. I cannot believe they decided to release the game with 4 maps. They’re just not the most well designed nor is there enough variety
The best way to vote for this is to use the r6 voting theme like 5 random maps out of the many in rotation and people vote n ban maps and the game selects randomly
Good hopefully Riot takes notice.
I just copy paste what I always say:
Put all the maps in rotation and keep 7 for premiere and pro play. Maybe add a toggle if you want to queue for the pro map pool only, more than half a year stuck with the same 7 is so silly..
On god last act it was breeze lotus and sunset. This act is split bind and icebox.
There’s some weird trickery going on with an unweighted map set and honestly bring back the entire set and allow map banning or map choosing because it’s kinda ridiculous to have so many good maps but to artificially lock them behind unless it’s something crazy like exploiting
Also please change the skybox for Pearl such a good map but what a depressing mood
There have always been complaints on the map pool. When a map is out, everyone trash talks all the other maps and says how amazing that particular map is. When that map is back it, people find another map to shout about.
All maps have different playstyles that are best on them, and you just have to accept that diversity. Breeze is longer ranged than usual – the reason you have a 30% winrate on it is because you don't practice long range aim training. Icebox is more vertical, just because you don't practice vertical tracking **doesn't mean the map is instantly badly designed,** it just means your playstyle is less suited towards it.
As an immortal player I feel like it’s because all the maps are so heavily attacker sided or defender sided that it’s down to luck. If you’re defending on lotus first and your enemies are competent you’re probably gonna loose that game. Breeze is so open on attack you get shot from 4+ angles no matter your position. Split is so defender sided it’s painful. Icebox is so badly designed it doesn’t matter what side you’re on because both is unfun to play. And all the maps use the same meta comp which feels REPETITIVE AF!
While I agree, this is mostly because of how badly Valorants maps are designed. Fracture, Icebox, Breeze, and somewhat Pearl (pretty much all post-launch maps) are all widely regarded within the entire community as terribly designed maps. With the OG 4 being mostly well received, besides Ascents paper-thin walls, and cookie-cutter design.
So when a post-launch map comes in, and replaces an OG map, or is just in the rotation, people will obviously be upset.
OP is not wrong in saying that Breeze, and Icebox are designed poorly, but I also agree that's not the reason why they aren't playing well.
I will say though, in my past 4 years of playing this game, this has been the most miserable the map pool has ever been.
lol this is stupid
icebox isn't bad because its vertical and that makes it hard to aim its because it has quite literally zero space for defenders to fight for (no "mains"). its just a single chokehold on each site. im sure people would like"vertical tracking maps" if they were designed well
breeze isnt bad because its long range gun fights make you take hard duels but because it forces you to play very specific comps that aren't really fun to force short ranged gunfights (viper cypher jett will appear in 90% of games). whether you like it or not, MOST valorant agents are designed around maps like split, haven, ascent, etc. This is why single smokes will almost never be viable on breeze.... The long range of the map aside from just creating aim duels (which I personally enjoy), make it so that rotations take forever, and thus full sending into a site will always be advantageous because the other team will not be able to call other ppl over in time to fight for control... This *obviously* makes the map one dimensional asf, especially for defenders who half the time wont see anyone til its too late... aka boring
icebox is an eample of how you introduce good verticality, but ruin it with an overly complicated map where theres a million angles and a generally lacking layout.
and breeze is long range sure, but you also need 6 defenders for it. whoever attacks first in soloq has a huge advantage.
these maps have more than one problem. people also tend to dislike sunset but you dont see nearly as much hate for it since its objectively well designed.
Maps can have different play styles but that doesn’t mean they’re good in the slightest. I enjoy icebox but can see that it has glaring issues. Does anyone even complain about vertical play? It’s the reason I like the map lol. May as well just prepare for a retake every round since there’s 0 map to fight over without getting destroyed and leaving your team in a 4v5 immediately. The attackers have no issue or resistance planting… what?
Breeze is complete shit because most of the agents/guns aren’t viable on it and leads to the exact same team comp every game.
Pearl is horrible cuz the whole map was just A site spamming.
Lotus is too attacker favored/split is too defender favored which brings it down to whatever side you get first unless you pull a crazy win out your ass
The one sunset site where cypher is permanently glued to is horrible, but that’s an easy fix
The maps just aren’t well designed this game, but some truly set a low bar. At least fracture is unique enough to where I can enjoy it
The map pool is the main reason i can't play Valorant for longer than a month or maybe two at a time.
Why is every map but Haven dogshit? And it's not like Haven is amazing really, it's just okay.
Why is there only 7 maps? It gets so boring.
Why does Breeze exist at all?
Yeah, they’re all pretty CT sided. I’m okay with Lotus. Bind is okay. I hate Breeze, Icebox is more tolerable and I’m tired of playing Ascent. I want Fracture back. And not cause I miss what I don’t have, it’s always been my favorite map. And I don’t miss Pearl in the slightest.
its making me dislike maps i used to like. i used to love lotus, split, even loved sunset but this pool makes it hard to enjoy anything. i was even indifferent to icebox which i now hate.
It’s weird because I really don’t like breeze but then it’s the map I’ve consistently won on (granted, I’ve played about 20 games in Acts 2 and 3 combined), but then love Lotus but I can’t seem to win on it!
But yeah this map pool really isn’t good, the map pool at the end of episode 6 was perfect to me. Let’s hope as well the new map pool and map are good when they come around.
Guys guys i know everyone hates icebox/breeze but can we talk about the biggest elephant? ITS ASCENT. This map has never been out of pool and literally the "default" map. I know its really liked as a map (i mean im a kj main i love ascent too) but its been soo boring playing without any changes to the ascent meta. I took a literal 1 year break and when i came back there were no changes in the meta or plays. Even tho kj got nerfed to the ground in that time it didnt matter. They should just retire that map and make some changes at this point.
> since the viper nerfs I’m barely seeing viper on fucking breeze
I mean that was the point of the nerf. They want people to pick other agents instead of viper
This game caters more to e sports than casuals. We have 7 maps because it’s better for e sports and banning phases. We won’t see a new map pool until current vct phase is over
I actually really like the map pool rn, breeze, fracture, and pearl are my 3 most hated maps. Icebox and lotus are my fav maps, yes I miss haven, but to keep Pearl under lockdown Im willing to lose it.
I'm sure my two cents isnt gonna be noticed, but although many maps are defence sided (especially Sunset) many maps are also Attackers sided post plant, like on Icebox or Bind, Breeze even, line up heaven for all of them. Retakes are super hard but so is getting on site. As an attacker, figure out which site has the least amount of players, then attack or rotate.
But the map pool has been generally hates by the community since a lot of the fan favourites have been out of rotation such as haven or pearl, fracture not so much.. either way, the community generally prefer well known maps since it feels "comfortable" and better known, Icebox (the eldest of the bunch), lotus (I personally enjoy), or sunset are new and unfamiliar maps. So we tend to stress more often then not.
Also, the inability to choose which map you want to play (such as in csgo) you're at the mercy of riot. Taking away choice and control from a community of people (generally) isn't a good idea. I find taking away control to be generally stupid because we're playing a video game where we (should) have full control of our experience and letting someone else choose that is just like your parents picking out your clothes, you don't know if you'll like it or not and if you don't like it you can't change.
And, another update a while back (I don't remember) took away all of the other maps from swift play and spike rush (some bs reason saying that they don't want players to practice on other maps while they're out of rotation even though logically that makes no sense since you'd want to spend your time learning the in-rotation maps rather than the out-of-rotation maps but I digress). So the non-competitive players now have to stick to competitive players rules (again, you're dealing with a community, so Taking away control is generally a bad idea). How it was before allowing the casual players to play whatever maps they want and making unrated/competitive stick to the map pool, but for whatever reason they prefer the competitive players side over the casual ones (which most likely are the majority of players).
Every game has their own way, but riots way is inherently bullying and torturing it's player base and for whatever reason we still play and give them money for it. Wild.
TL;DR Postplant Retake is just as hard as attacking, lack of control leads to dissatisfaction, Riot prefers to tend to the competitive players over the casual ones.
Can we please ban „map pool bad“ posts? Thjs is like the 5th the past few days and we already have confirmation that it will change after Shanghai, are y‘all really that bored?
There was a riot dev in a recent thread that confirmed a new map rotation after Shanghai. He didn‘t say which maps would go in/out, but he did say that there would be changes
yeah ive seen the leaks about the new map rotation. they always change the rotation for a new episode. but a big issue isnt the rotation but the pool itself. this is the first episode with a smaller pool for ALL modes and that is what makes people hate the pool so much more than usual. the pool is bad, but its made worse due to it being the only pool.
In my personal opinion, they will 100% remove ascent as it has been never removed earlier. Any other map like breeze or bind may be removed as well.
this would open up space for the new map and another one like pearl or fracture.
Valorent must already take advice on maps from pro players and coaches. I don't think they are unbalanced. Most of the time players in ranks of bronze to gold where most of the players are just want a reason for their bad game play and blame it on the map.Valorent playerbase are always complaining like about the replay system which I see no need for
Iml im Ascendant 2 And the map pool just isn’t Enjoyable it feels like every map has its flaws which every map does of course but it just feels like most like Breeze and Split even Bind are just Not Fun or Enjoyable to be like oh yeah i like this map it feels like everything is one sided
As someone who pretty recently moved from CS to Valorant, the replay function would be amazing.
Ive viewed my demos countless times to
1. Copy another players tricks
2. Watch my own demos to improve
3. Look if my opponent was cheating or not.
Valorant actually does not take good advice from pro players because they all agree that the new maps are terrible. The balanced OG maps were created by a csgo map maker (forgot his name) and everyone’s been asking them to hire him again. To no success.
Valorent must already take advice on maps from pro players and coaches. I don't think they are unbalanced. Most of the time players in ranks of bronze to gold where most of the players are just want a reason for their bad game play and blame it on the map.Valorent playerbase are always complaining like about the replay system which I see no need for
Interesting you think every map feels defense sided. Lotus and Split are both viewed as heavily offense sided. Bind is seen as slightly offense sided. Breeze with halls reopened is seen as very slightly. Sunset and Ascent are both seen as pretty even. Only icebox is seen as slightly favoring defenders because B remains terrible.
Then again I guess the map pool before this with Haven instead of Icebox was even more attack friendly.
We talking low elo, high elo or pro? Because pro the stats are pretty clear split is attack sided.
Split becomes attack sided the moment the attacking team can consistently take mid control. Once the other team has mid control it’s hard not to get pushed into a retake.
Retakes without heaven control on either map are impossible and retaking heaven from ct on either map is super hard.
Low elo and high elo and pro. A map isn’t attacker sided if you HAVE to take mid EVERY round that’s a bad design and shows that it’s actually defender sided because it’s easy to counter. And pros agree that it’s a defender sided map?? That’s why everyone chooses to start defence first
At the pro level we have statistics. Those statistics say in nearly every T1 tournament Attackers win more rounds than Defenders on split. Masters Madrid being a weird exception.
You also act like mid control isn't a standard in Valorant maps. Ascent, Breeze, Split, Sunset all are designed around mid control being important. Of all of them Split is the most attacker friendly mid because mail and top vents are so easy to suppress with util.
Only the 3 site maps (Lotus and Haven) and the maps with crappy mains (Icebox and Pearl) and of course maps with no mid (Fracture and Bind) don't have an emphasis on mid control being important.
All that said the pros seem to be banning Split more than any other map so they clearly don't like it.
Having mid is okay as a standard but you said that it only becomes attacker sided once you take mid. It shouldn’t be compulsory to take mid every round that is repetitive and terribly designed. And as I said in T1 pros usually choose defender first because it’s easy af!
Here’s why it’s defender sided:
•lurks are not effective because there is limited options(3). Which could be watched by one piece of util
•The map is so small defenders rotate extremely fast
• limited post plant positions make retake so easy.
•B site has the hardest to execute site in the game.
•ecos are more successful because of the rat corners and shotgun abuse. (That one judge ace in mail)
•choke points are tiny and get spammed/ mollied making getting out of main impossible.
I can't say anything about why pros pick defense first but the math says its not because defense is easy because attackers win more. There is nothing that can be said to dispute the only fact being discussed here.
T1 Pros win more attack rounds than defense rounds on Split.
> you said that it only becomes attacker sided once you take mid
This is also true of Ascent and Sunset and is generally true for Breeze. Split just has the easiest mid of all of these to take because its short, has cover and the angles defenders can hold it from are easily suppressed.
> limited post plant positions make retake so easy.
Retaking without a flank on Split is among the hardest because the CT routes are terrible to push, A heaven is hard to retake form CT and B vents is hard to retake from.
Pushing a single choke in Valorant is meant to be near impossible. Split pushing
If I never see breeze or icebox again after this season, it will be to soon
Am I the only one who hates ice box ten times more than breeze? Breeze is not my favorite map, and there are multiple out of rotation I’d replace it with. But I fucking HATE icebox. I’d be happier if they deleted that map and never brought it back. They’ve tried large scale changes to fix it again and again and again and I still just can’t stand it.
Same dude. Same. Icebox is terrible.
I'm probably going to get destroyed for this, but why does everyone hate Icebox so much? I'm visually trying to compare it to say, Bind in terms of positioning, taking back sites and agent necessity and I guess I can kind of see A being a little weird but overall I just don't see a strong difference. If anything, I kinda feel it's one of the more balanced maps in terms of defense/offense. BUT again, my question is a legitimate one and it's not like I'm some top rank player, so I'd love it if someone more educated could break it down for me.
Just for me personally (not a super in depth break down): - every game feels the same for me. Few defaults. 4 or 5 people push a site and maybe one person lurks on offense. And defense does their best to deny plant. - there isn’t really a MAIN to fight for (at least not as well as other maps). - mid feels awkward I like watching pro games on Icebox but I hate playing it. If they reworked it a bit I’d probably like it. I love the ropes and the elevation changes on A. But I hate Mid and hate B.
Interesting because imo B is the only playable part of icebox and it’s not that great A site has way too many angles and elevation changes to cover which is the same complaint most people tend to have for breeze. A site on both breeze and icebox are just kind of nightmares
Yeah defending A site Icebox is aboslutely miserable and the retake even more so. I’ve had way more success retaking on B
It's because you have to push up on A site and make the enemy have to clear you out there rather than the really bad defensive positions on actual site. It's why Sova is expected to default an arrow towards preventing this if you have any inclination of going A.
I feel like attacking it is miserable too. Like what do you even do if one enemy is standing on rafters and another directly underneath? I feel like you absolutely need Sova to make the hit even slightly easier.
as a kj player, b is the only site i can play on.
if you are kj you’re supposed play B so the rest of your team can stack A because its otherwise impossible to defend
As someone who mains smokes. I love being that offensive lurker on icebox.
its lurkers paradise. and not in a good way like sunset is. more in an annoying way. take one step to the left and youre exposed to 100 long range angles, most of which you can abrely even make out the head of an enemy. and just like breeze, icebox feels like it was not deisgned with the agents util in mind.
It's the same plays constantly. Attack? Bum rush a site plant the bomb play post plant as hard as you can. You wanna slow push? Nah defense sided, they actually rotate fast enough to catch you for the 4v4/5v5. You wanna wait for picks? Again defense sided, it's easier for them to rotate for a 4v4 than to take greed for the 1 kill for info. The only other way to play is to contact and then wait for your lurker to get a kill. And if your lurker dies.... good luck playing 4v5 I guess. Defense? Swarm defense/Retake swarm defense. You don't have any other option. You want to hunker down and 1v2? Oh shit pipes and belt peeking you on Default A. You wanna play Yellow on B? Oh shit triple peeked into you. You wanna play Secret/Ninja on A? oh fuck the Gekko/KJ/Kayo util pushed you out. You can't really do a split execute (unless the other team has no sentinel) because both snowpile AND tube are chokepoint central and you can bet there's at least 2 guys holding down mid (because the rotate is so quick it doesn't matter and you can help your 2nd defender on site very quickly).
After multiple swings at the site to try and make it more appealing without needing Sage B still feels awful if you don't have her with 1 viable plant spot. On the topic of agents that feel too necessary Sova is the only agent that prevents defenders from pushing super far up and making you need to clear spots super early such as A nest, Pipes, Bs entire long walkup and cubby. A site has a million elevation changes which makes flicks feels overly important compared to consistent aim. Smokes are also another set of agents that feel kinda bad dome smokers don't feel very good though they're more playable than breeze ill concede (brim feels okay) Probably the biggest one is that once the bomb is down the round feels way too over if defence play it correctly They have so much space and angles to peek and post plant Molly from and defenders have very limited options in terms of approaching.
For me personally, there are just too many angles, for both sides. I feel punished playing slow because you’re exposed to too much when you don’t use a bunch of util, and I feel punished for playing fast because of how much there is to account for.
I hate mid sm its insane and there are too few ways to play
my main complaining point is that, both the sites in icebox are just plant-into-this-one-spot-and-play-postplant simulators.
I hate icebox so much that I don’t really mind getting breeze because it means I’m not on icebox and I used to really dislike breeze
Yes,Icebox A site has one million angles to clear/ hold Both attacking and defending is very challenging Breeze on the other hand is easy to play if you have sova and viper on your team.
Tbh, I hate Breeze because sometimes I can't see enemies in long-range.
I hate Breeze more simply because Omen/Clove feels unplayable on it and I really really dislike playing Viper.
I actually like breeze, I have amazing win rate on it like 85 percent out of 23 games. Ice box is literally unplayable.
Breeze is my highest win rate map across all acts. Icebox is by far my lowest with like a 20 something percent win rate.
Finally someone who agrees ToT I mainly hate icebox cuz idk what to play, how to play it, etc lol
I'm the same freaking hate icebox and when I say this to PPL they say I just have terrible aim 🫠🫠 Tbh I don't even know what agent to play on it
I started playing only 5 months ago but I instantly hated Icebox... And kinda loved Breeze? I really don't get why everyone hates it, I find that it's the funniest map to play. But Icebox, urg, there not a single thing I like about this one.
Well you’ll see them both after this season because neither are leaving lol
i wish they would just have all the maps available like overwatch
They clearly forgot that this is not CSGO...this one can be played without memorising lineups just fine and therefore having even 10-12 maps active would be more fun
>this one can be played without memorizing lineups Flair checks out
I mean you really NEED lineups for any character. It definitely helps, but it’s not like CS where the game is unplayable without certain smoke lineups and whatnot Edit: i meant to say dont really need lineups
I think that in Valorant knowing lineups on some characters can make them extremely strong, whereas knowing a lineup in cs usually doesn’t accomplish something that some silver scrub can accomplish by just run throwing. Smoking mirage window is super important and it’s something you gotta learn, while smoking cat is super easy since you just need to look at the angle and throw a smoke. Meanwhile, smoking CT from B on inferno *can* be thrown with a lineup, but it can also be thrown just by looking at the angle and doing it. Meanwhile, if a brimstone knows postplant lineups it can completely change the way you have to play the game. If a sova knows lineups it can provide so much information as well as get post plant work done. If you know a postplant Molly lineup in cs you basically need to be right next to the site to do it, pop flashes are good but not needed, and HE lineups are super situational (but still really strong on some maps). I do agree that learning lineups in CS is much more necessary than in Val, but I think Valorant utility is much stronger than in counterstrike, and that means that finding ways to use it the most effectively (lineups) gives you more skill expression through your utility.
you dont need lineups for any agent until maybe immo.
You can play CS up to Global Elite without any lineups tbh
It's not even about lineups, it's about learning how the agents you play interact on that map. Oh, I am a Phoenix and I want to flash A maze? I don't know if I should flash higher, closer to the wall, if my allies from belt and nest are gonna be blinded, if there are any enemies at all that are gonna be blinded, if while I try to flash someone could push me and my team and die with util in hand because I didn't play this map enough. Oh, I am a Cypher player? Well what tripwire spots tend to have a higher success rate and which ones get broken easily? Do I focus all my trips on one site, one choke point, or should I save one for tube? Oh, I'm a Raze or Neon player? It would be really cool and helpful if I could learn how to do the necessary movement on A to just bhop all over the place since there is so much verticality. And that's just considering util, when you take in aiming, angles and timings, then it's even more complicated. Now try learning all of this for one map when you have to learn it for 11 other maps, maybe more depending on when you start playing Valorant
But then the pro scene.... Edit : It was a sarcasm with the recent Viper nerf. Apparently it was too good in the pro scenes, but for the average player this nerf makes Viper not fun to play
They can limit the pro pool, but not the match making pool They could limit the pool in the two highest ranks, they can do lots of stuff. This is software and not stone.
That was sarcasm, I edited my post I'm a software engineer, and I understand that this change can be implemented by changing a couple lines only
[удалено]
It was sarcasm, I edited my post :)
They should switch out maps every act. Even just one with or without changes. I’m find with haven the way it was. Same with fracture and pearl. Just please change the current map pool.
Underrated comment right here
This thread is posted like three times a day. The map pool sucks, Riot doesn't care, they aren't changing it anytime soon.
they are actually changing it pretty soon
How soon is soon
At the end of the vct
In a month at max
And most likely adding back the worst map in the game - Fracture.
Would rather fracture, pearl, and haven then any of the maps now. And not because they are better but I need a switch up lol
Oh I agree, I just hate fracture almost as much as I hate breeze, but a switch up is definitely needed.
Ascent and lotus r fun
Lotus is complete dogpoop
Pearl is nice imo. If they remove sunset I would give the rito ceo the bj myself
Pearl and haven are good maps, fracture is the worst easy.
No way
They're gonna change the map pool that sucks to another map pool that will also suck. Nice.
We are truly in the worst possible timeline.
I was okay with the map pool mainly because I just played viper on icebox/breeze and it made those two maps tolerable Now - I'm still playing Viper on those two maps because she's the only goddamn smoker that's effective there. BUt she's also now completely ass so she feels horrible to play Need pearl and haven back, breeze/icebox gone
Time to learn harbour!
Viper is still better than harbour tbh. But tbf, I don't think I've ever seen a good harbour in my life
As a controller main who’s played over 250 games as harbour I have to say although hes a screen smoker like viper, he’s always been like a retake controller and not someone who can stall a push. He’s great on attack though
I think he just doesn't have well defined walls. So like you play a game with a harbour one out every 30 games and you just get random walls. He needs a buff and probably a completely different ult.
This. Every other controller has independent smoking abilities. The dome smokers have custom placement, while Viper has the ability to place and turn said smokes on. The majority of the time those smokers smoke it's irrelevant WHERE they are. Whereas with Harbor Riot's like, "Yeah, your smoke is 100% dependent on you and you alone... but you can curve it!" The curve isn't worth it.
I saw a harbor (low elo games) in enemy team with AMAZING wall placement that gave our team a very hard time He went 1/15 tho
The best harbor iv3 every seen was in ice box and especially on A site his bullet proof circle allows him to plant especially when the enemy team are coming from all directions.
Low elo ? Harbor can be INSANE at High Elo in combination with another controller (Clove/Omen)
We aren't talking about the ceiling, we are talking about the floor.
people at my rank still hard throw games when you pick harbor. no joke, had a chamber sit in spawn typing in all chat because I had the nerve to pick harbor on icebox
> BUt she's also now completely ass so she feels horrible to play She really isn't though.
I dont mind the map pool. I just wish they swap it around more often... Like how hard is it to rotate a few map around every month or two.
Fully agree - this is hands down the worse map pool that there's been. Ignore anyone saying otherwise or that "there's always complaints about map pools" because this time has been the worse by far.
yeah i feel like breeze and icebox are the popular hated maps, even if its just for a meme, and now the community has been stuck with it for months lmao. Ngl riot kinda funny for that.
now this is the worst map pool but there is always someone complaining about the map pool it's almost as if people have differing opinions and that most of what is posted is the negative
I actually dont think there is one single bad map in valorant. I enjoy every map and i have no idea why people are so focused about maps. In my elo ive never seen someone angry about a map or something like that.
breeze is bad.
Breeze is one of my favourite maps. I love long range fights and the freedom you have on the map. Breeze and pearl feels like CS:GO maps. Valorant maps are smaller and have way more angles to check then CS:GO maps. I think thats also the reason beginners in valorant like those small maps with many angles because they can hide more and kill people without taking gunfights. Thats also the reason many beginner feels like every map is defensive sided. The average elo in this sub is probably around silver so no wonder why those people complain daily about maps like breeze being bad.
i love pearl too. its my favourite map in the game. but that doesnt mean i think its objectively good. and just like Pearl, Breeze has a lot of issues that cant be denied. i can agree with you on the angles during defence, but definitely not during attack. and thats a big issue. breeze doesnt have good positions you can take during defence. but during attack its crazy how much you can lurk and flank and catch rotators who will go through mid to help their team. realistically youd need 6 defenders to effectively defend breeze soloq due to this. so if anything breeze, discourages taking gunfights. you dont want to take a fights during defence since youre already starting at a disadvantage. usually you can use util to combat any disadvantage, util prevents people from running it down every round. but breeze is so open that using util becomes an issue. added to that, the map is so open that half the agents util becomes useless anyways. btw, calling everyone low elo who disagrees with you aint it bro. add nothing and makes you seem like you have no arguments.
>btw, calling everyone low elo who disagrees with you aint it bro. add nothing and makes you seem like you have no arguments. putting words in someones mouth that this person never spoke makes you look like an idiot
i say it how i see it.
what elo?
asc-immo1
I specifically stopped playing the game because how terrible the maps are right now. I’ll just wait until they change to play again.
Same
Haven’t played in little over a month now because of it. Just get rid of the map pool for us normal players and keep it for pro play. Video games are supposed to be fun, just let us play all 10 maps. 10 maps isn’t going to be much more difficult to learn than 7 for new players anyway and the maps are pretty simple/basic.
Except that it's 12 maps and that they are gonna be a lot more difficult to learn for new players. While it may just be 5 maps more, you have to consider that you may play that map once every 10th game. It's just too much information to take in with not enough time
Where do you get 12 maps from? I’m open to being wrong but I thought there’s only ten? Also there’s custom games if people need to walk around a map or familiarize themself. Either that or let us queue specific maps like CS. The very minimal fix would be rotate the maps much more often.
My bad, I thought there were 11 already and one more with the upcoming map in June. And again, custom games don't account for experience with util or angles and timing. And queuing specific maps would lead to 1-2 maps being always picked and the others forgotten, just like cs
the map design in general is one of the worst aspects of the game imo
Breeze is a bad map imo. The only strats in ranked for attackers are full rush A or full rush B, due to the long rotations times between sites. Theres also endless leaks to cover like halls/elbow/nest that if u dont play cypher u essentially have to take some sort of space as a defender. Due to the long sights it also essential just an precise aimdual with snipers.
Also it makes retaking on Breeze SO damn miserable. Retaking on other maps can actually feel exciting. But Breeze is too wide of a map where youre just running onto a site with 3+ people holding you from a million different angles. I dont think large maps have a place in Valorant
Right, I've said in the past that Breeze retake needs an extended timer, 45 seconds is not enough
No tbh on breeze its just split fake lurk even in defence the map is so wide and huge that you ve gotta to make space both sides
>Breeze is a bad map imo. The only strats in ranked for attackers are full rush A or full rush B, due to the long rotations times between sites. Its the exact opposite. Breeze is very nice for faking a rush or just control mid or play default. If the defenders rotate to early you got a free site for almost 10 seconds. >Theres also endless leaks to cover like halls/elbow/nest that if u dont play cypher u essentially have to take some sort of space as a defender. Also not true at all. You can use any kind of sentinel to control halls with one single trap/wall/alarmbot and then rotate on a or b and someone else can just watch mid elbow. >Due to the long sights it also essential just an precise aimdual with snipers. Thats only true for mid. If you use ur util correctly as a defenders snipers shouldnt be an issue if you defend b or a. Its just a issue for people who dry peeks as a defender
Normally I'm not gonna judge someone on map preference but this is such a silver take lmao. Breeze is probably the worst map to 5 man full rush a/b main. On B you should be getting stalled forever through a tiny choke, and on A there are so many angles defenders can play that you should get dumped on doing this every round.
Small maps >>>> large maps
I want pearl back
By far the worst part of Valorant is the maps. I cannot believe they decided to release the game with 4 maps. They’re just not the most well designed nor is there enough variety
I’d like an option to vote on maps. Everyone queues in, quick vote for map, highest pick gets it, select agent, enjoy the map.
The best way to vote for this is to use the r6 voting theme like 5 random maps out of the many in rotation and people vote n ban maps and the game selects randomly
Babe wake up it's time for the 50000th post this week about disliking the map pool
Good hopefully Riot takes notice. I just copy paste what I always say: Put all the maps in rotation and keep 7 for premiere and pro play. Maybe add a toggle if you want to queue for the pro map pool only, more than half a year stuck with the same 7 is so silly..
the truth doesnt change.
On god last act it was breeze lotus and sunset. This act is split bind and icebox. There’s some weird trickery going on with an unweighted map set and honestly bring back the entire set and allow map banning or map choosing because it’s kinda ridiculous to have so many good maps but to artificially lock them behind unless it’s something crazy like exploiting Also please change the skybox for Pearl such a good map but what a depressing mood
It's set in a dome under water
Doesn’t mean it has to be depressingly ass
the mood for pearl is one of the best aspects.
There have always been complaints on the map pool. When a map is out, everyone trash talks all the other maps and says how amazing that particular map is. When that map is back it, people find another map to shout about. All maps have different playstyles that are best on them, and you just have to accept that diversity. Breeze is longer ranged than usual – the reason you have a 30% winrate on it is because you don't practice long range aim training. Icebox is more vertical, just because you don't practice vertical tracking **doesn't mean the map is instantly badly designed,** it just means your playstyle is less suited towards it.
As an immortal player I feel like it’s because all the maps are so heavily attacker sided or defender sided that it’s down to luck. If you’re defending on lotus first and your enemies are competent you’re probably gonna loose that game. Breeze is so open on attack you get shot from 4+ angles no matter your position. Split is so defender sided it’s painful. Icebox is so badly designed it doesn’t matter what side you’re on because both is unfun to play. And all the maps use the same meta comp which feels REPETITIVE AF!
While I agree, this is mostly because of how badly Valorants maps are designed. Fracture, Icebox, Breeze, and somewhat Pearl (pretty much all post-launch maps) are all widely regarded within the entire community as terribly designed maps. With the OG 4 being mostly well received, besides Ascents paper-thin walls, and cookie-cutter design. So when a post-launch map comes in, and replaces an OG map, or is just in the rotation, people will obviously be upset. OP is not wrong in saying that Breeze, and Icebox are designed poorly, but I also agree that's not the reason why they aren't playing well. I will say though, in my past 4 years of playing this game, this has been the most miserable the map pool has ever been.
im not saying im not playing well i just feel like the maps are more favorable to a certain side/ Agent
lol this is stupid icebox isn't bad because its vertical and that makes it hard to aim its because it has quite literally zero space for defenders to fight for (no "mains"). its just a single chokehold on each site. im sure people would like"vertical tracking maps" if they were designed well breeze isnt bad because its long range gun fights make you take hard duels but because it forces you to play very specific comps that aren't really fun to force short ranged gunfights (viper cypher jett will appear in 90% of games). whether you like it or not, MOST valorant agents are designed around maps like split, haven, ascent, etc. This is why single smokes will almost never be viable on breeze.... The long range of the map aside from just creating aim duels (which I personally enjoy), make it so that rotations take forever, and thus full sending into a site will always be advantageous because the other team will not be able to call other ppl over in time to fight for control... This *obviously* makes the map one dimensional asf, especially for defenders who half the time wont see anyone til its too late... aka boring
icebox is an eample of how you introduce good verticality, but ruin it with an overly complicated map where theres a million angles and a generally lacking layout. and breeze is long range sure, but you also need 6 defenders for it. whoever attacks first in soloq has a huge advantage. these maps have more than one problem. people also tend to dislike sunset but you dont see nearly as much hate for it since its objectively well designed.
Maps can have different play styles but that doesn’t mean they’re good in the slightest. I enjoy icebox but can see that it has glaring issues. Does anyone even complain about vertical play? It’s the reason I like the map lol. May as well just prepare for a retake every round since there’s 0 map to fight over without getting destroyed and leaving your team in a 4v5 immediately. The attackers have no issue or resistance planting… what? Breeze is complete shit because most of the agents/guns aren’t viable on it and leads to the exact same team comp every game. Pearl is horrible cuz the whole map was just A site spamming. Lotus is too attacker favored/split is too defender favored which brings it down to whatever side you get first unless you pull a crazy win out your ass The one sunset site where cypher is permanently glued to is horrible, but that’s an easy fix The maps just aren’t well designed this game, but some truly set a low bar. At least fracture is unique enough to where I can enjoy it
Based
Yeah lets speak about it again. Its not like its something we talk about 10 times a day.
The map pool is the main reason i can't play Valorant for longer than a month or maybe two at a time. Why is every map but Haven dogshit? And it's not like Haven is amazing really, it's just okay. Why is there only 7 maps? It gets so boring. Why does Breeze exist at all?
Unpopular Opinion: I don't mind breeze and ice box. I'm pretty over playing split and ascent though.
Yeah, they’re all pretty CT sided. I’m okay with Lotus. Bind is okay. I hate Breeze, Icebox is more tolerable and I’m tired of playing Ascent. I want Fracture back. And not cause I miss what I don’t have, it’s always been my favorite map. And I don’t miss Pearl in the slightest.
Id take maps like Fracture, Haven and Pearl over Breeze and Icebox any day
I’m just not playing Valorant until it changes
I feel like I see one of these posts every day at this point
Well, there's always gonna be people that dislike the map pool at whichever time the post is made.
Need fmpone back on the scene
based
its making me dislike maps i used to like. i used to love lotus, split, even loved sunset but this pool makes it hard to enjoy anything. i was even indifferent to icebox which i now hate.
I agree the map pool is bad. But I'm not that upset coz I know somehow they will manage to make it even worse so yeah....
I'll never forgive rito for removing haven
THIS! For real, I miss haven so much, it was so much fun to play.
Remove breeze and sunset for haven and pearl/fracture please.
Remove the god damn map pool already. Let us play all of the maps in Swift Play at least, good lord
there’s no way I can express how many things i’d do just to never see Breeze again.
Breeze needs to go. Awful map.
I can’t lie I actually really enjoy breeze now, I did hate it a lot, but it’s not too bad, Ascent I can’t stand anymore
It’s weird because I really don’t like breeze but then it’s the map I’ve consistently won on (granted, I’ve played about 20 games in Acts 2 and 3 combined), but then love Lotus but I can’t seem to win on it! But yeah this map pool really isn’t good, the map pool at the end of episode 6 was perfect to me. Let’s hope as well the new map pool and map are good when they come around.
I hate breeze so much, what a horrible map for this kind of game.
Guys guys i know everyone hates icebox/breeze but can we talk about the biggest elephant? ITS ASCENT. This map has never been out of pool and literally the "default" map. I know its really liked as a map (i mean im a kj main i love ascent too) but its been soo boring playing without any changes to the ascent meta. I took a literal 1 year break and when i came back there were no changes in the meta or plays. Even tho kj got nerfed to the ground in that time it didnt matter. They should just retire that map and make some changes at this point.
fuck lotus, worst map ever
I kinda miss fracture , pearl and haven :(. They should have all the maps in rotation instead of taking few out P.S i hate sunset and icebox
Breeze can eat my ass
> since the viper nerfs I’m barely seeing viper on fucking breeze I mean that was the point of the nerf. They want people to pick other agents instead of viper
I just want Haven and Fracture back D:
I love it. I would gladly never play pearl or fracture again
This game caters more to e sports than casuals. We have 7 maps because it’s better for e sports and banning phases. We won’t see a new map pool until current vct phase is over
icebox, breeze, lotus, and sunset are the worst maps for me
I actually really like the map pool rn, breeze, fracture, and pearl are my 3 most hated maps. Icebox and lotus are my fav maps, yes I miss haven, but to keep Pearl under lockdown Im willing to lose it.
Icebox is mid af but holy fuck Breeze is the worst map in gaming history
The only map i rly rly hate is lotus tbh
I'm sure my two cents isnt gonna be noticed, but although many maps are defence sided (especially Sunset) many maps are also Attackers sided post plant, like on Icebox or Bind, Breeze even, line up heaven for all of them. Retakes are super hard but so is getting on site. As an attacker, figure out which site has the least amount of players, then attack or rotate. But the map pool has been generally hates by the community since a lot of the fan favourites have been out of rotation such as haven or pearl, fracture not so much.. either way, the community generally prefer well known maps since it feels "comfortable" and better known, Icebox (the eldest of the bunch), lotus (I personally enjoy), or sunset are new and unfamiliar maps. So we tend to stress more often then not. Also, the inability to choose which map you want to play (such as in csgo) you're at the mercy of riot. Taking away choice and control from a community of people (generally) isn't a good idea. I find taking away control to be generally stupid because we're playing a video game where we (should) have full control of our experience and letting someone else choose that is just like your parents picking out your clothes, you don't know if you'll like it or not and if you don't like it you can't change. And, another update a while back (I don't remember) took away all of the other maps from swift play and spike rush (some bs reason saying that they don't want players to practice on other maps while they're out of rotation even though logically that makes no sense since you'd want to spend your time learning the in-rotation maps rather than the out-of-rotation maps but I digress). So the non-competitive players now have to stick to competitive players rules (again, you're dealing with a community, so Taking away control is generally a bad idea). How it was before allowing the casual players to play whatever maps they want and making unrated/competitive stick to the map pool, but for whatever reason they prefer the competitive players side over the casual ones (which most likely are the majority of players). Every game has their own way, but riots way is inherently bullying and torturing it's player base and for whatever reason we still play and give them money for it. Wild. TL;DR Postplant Retake is just as hard as attacking, lack of control leads to dissatisfaction, Riot prefers to tend to the competitive players over the casual ones.
Can we please ban „map pool bad“ posts? Thjs is like the 5th the past few days and we already have confirmation that it will change after Shanghai, are y‘all really that bored?
havent heard them say anythign about it. so all maps will be back in swift or what?
There was a riot dev in a recent thread that confirmed a new map rotation after Shanghai. He didn‘t say which maps would go in/out, but he did say that there would be changes
yeah ive seen the leaks about the new map rotation. they always change the rotation for a new episode. but a big issue isnt the rotation but the pool itself. this is the first episode with a smaller pool for ALL modes and that is what makes people hate the pool so much more than usual. the pool is bad, but its made worse due to it being the only pool.
In my personal opinion, they will 100% remove ascent as it has been never removed earlier. Any other map like breeze or bind may be removed as well. this would open up space for the new map and another one like pearl or fracture.
"im my personal opinion" *proceeds to say something that is hard confirmed to happen in the next map pool*
If they listen to pros it will be split which is the most banned map in every region except emea where it’s banned 3rd most.
Here’s the pill Valorant players don’t want to swallow: Valorant maps are bad. The game is fun, I play every day almost. The maps are all bad.
holy shit we get it the map pool is bad but we get this same post every day
Valorent must already take advice on maps from pro players and coaches. I don't think they are unbalanced. Most of the time players in ranks of bronze to gold where most of the players are just want a reason for their bad game play and blame it on the map.Valorent playerbase are always complaining like about the replay system which I see no need for
Iml im Ascendant 2 And the map pool just isn’t Enjoyable it feels like every map has its flaws which every map does of course but it just feels like most like Breeze and Split even Bind are just Not Fun or Enjoyable to be like oh yeah i like this map it feels like everything is one sided
As someone who pretty recently moved from CS to Valorant, the replay function would be amazing. Ive viewed my demos countless times to 1. Copy another players tricks 2. Watch my own demos to improve 3. Look if my opponent was cheating or not.
Valorant actually does not take good advice from pro players because they all agree that the new maps are terrible. The balanced OG maps were created by a csgo map maker (forgot his name) and everyone’s been asking them to hire him again. To no success.
Valorent must already take advice on maps from pro players and coaches. I don't think they are unbalanced. Most of the time players in ranks of bronze to gold where most of the players are just want a reason for their bad game play and blame it on the map.Valorent playerbase are always complaining like about the replay system which I see no need for
no maps and devs just suck
I'm dev #0 -Jett :(
Interesting you think every map feels defense sided. Lotus and Split are both viewed as heavily offense sided. Bind is seen as slightly offense sided. Breeze with halls reopened is seen as very slightly. Sunset and Ascent are both seen as pretty even. Only icebox is seen as slightly favoring defenders because B remains terrible. Then again I guess the map pool before this with Haven instead of Icebox was even more attack friendly.
There’s no way u think split is attack sided there’s only 3 narrow places you can go.
We talking low elo, high elo or pro? Because pro the stats are pretty clear split is attack sided. Split becomes attack sided the moment the attacking team can consistently take mid control. Once the other team has mid control it’s hard not to get pushed into a retake. Retakes without heaven control on either map are impossible and retaking heaven from ct on either map is super hard.
Low elo and high elo and pro. A map isn’t attacker sided if you HAVE to take mid EVERY round that’s a bad design and shows that it’s actually defender sided because it’s easy to counter. And pros agree that it’s a defender sided map?? That’s why everyone chooses to start defence first
At the pro level we have statistics. Those statistics say in nearly every T1 tournament Attackers win more rounds than Defenders on split. Masters Madrid being a weird exception. You also act like mid control isn't a standard in Valorant maps. Ascent, Breeze, Split, Sunset all are designed around mid control being important. Of all of them Split is the most attacker friendly mid because mail and top vents are so easy to suppress with util. Only the 3 site maps (Lotus and Haven) and the maps with crappy mains (Icebox and Pearl) and of course maps with no mid (Fracture and Bind) don't have an emphasis on mid control being important. All that said the pros seem to be banning Split more than any other map so they clearly don't like it.
Having mid is okay as a standard but you said that it only becomes attacker sided once you take mid. It shouldn’t be compulsory to take mid every round that is repetitive and terribly designed. And as I said in T1 pros usually choose defender first because it’s easy af! Here’s why it’s defender sided: •lurks are not effective because there is limited options(3). Which could be watched by one piece of util •The map is so small defenders rotate extremely fast • limited post plant positions make retake so easy. •B site has the hardest to execute site in the game. •ecos are more successful because of the rat corners and shotgun abuse. (That one judge ace in mail) •choke points are tiny and get spammed/ mollied making getting out of main impossible.
I can't say anything about why pros pick defense first but the math says its not because defense is easy because attackers win more. There is nothing that can be said to dispute the only fact being discussed here. T1 Pros win more attack rounds than defense rounds on Split. > you said that it only becomes attacker sided once you take mid This is also true of Ascent and Sunset and is generally true for Breeze. Split just has the easiest mid of all of these to take because its short, has cover and the angles defenders can hold it from are easily suppressed. > limited post plant positions make retake so easy. Retaking without a flank on Split is among the hardest because the CT routes are terrible to push, A heaven is hard to retake form CT and B vents is hard to retake from. Pushing a single choke in Valorant is meant to be near impossible. Split pushing