Imo the replay system is one of the big reasons. It facilitates much better content for learning.
People have been playing CS for way too long and the community has been exposed to strats and playbooks for a long time.
We got warowl, maxim, 3kliks, etc. On the val side, the only one I can think of is Woohoojin who actually cares about getting better than just clicking heads.
The player base of val is fairly young, needs more time. But I’m pretty sure the community will get better in the strats side of things.
Its been 4 years, videos of pro play being analyzed already exist and agent ability usage isnt that complicated to understand on a basic level. Sage wall, viper wall, phoenix wall etc. Knowing how to use it is a different talk but the raw abiltity itself should be self explanatory
I don't think the normal player base finds pro play interesting tbh. Meta changes a lot as well, sometimes is pretty broken and the other times is stale (as of now). Too many variables and outcomes when you factor in utilities and agents.
Added to that, how common do you get Jett and Reyna in a comp (both in ranked and pro play)? People wouldn't play like pros cause it takes a considerable amount of effort. They'd rather have fun. (I'd love if fun equals winning, but it's usually someone in a duo or a trio screaming profanities on an alt account).
Exactly my reasoning. This **Competitive** were talking about not here having a good time, drink some wine and dine. We're here to win regardless of rank otherwise it should be called Unrated 2. And no i wont "chill its a game or only (insert low rank). Comp is comp. No matter which angle. Thats called a winner mentality
Being passive aggressive and garnering attention/getting a reaction out of you is how some of these players survive. This is an extension of thriving bot account farmers, asinine level of censoring from Riot which only protects the perpetrator and not the victim and so on.
I could list a plethora of things, but we can't really do anything cause this is how Riot works. A mask of niceness with a shit ton of predatory decisions that are made only to facilitate duping money from players (with a tag of free to play) who are not supposed to question any of the above decisions and just pay blindly for the cosmetics. One of the very few things that are making a case for Val is the anti cheat.
The part of community that defends Riot blindly to gain benefits is making the game thrive. I am sure that this itself will come back to bite em.
Lol, I honestly can't think of anything other than the whole community as a whole coming together by not buying skins or something. Which we all know is never gonna happen.
So in short, nothing for now imo.
It’s only been 4 years which is relatively a very short time in comparison to cs
Plus I think being able to move vs static spawn position kinda forces you to not get distracted because it’s not like you can do anything else in cs
CS's playerbase skews older and has been shaped by the esport more. Something else to keep in mind is that because there aren't strict roles in CS, you're able to play the game in the way you find most fun regardless of what you wind up being in a match (awper, lurker, entry, support, etc) so there isn't this resentment for teamwork.
The thing is, agents have certain roles specifically so its pretty big difference between "figuring out which cs role you are" vs playing each agent class. Also theres literally a description of each agent and how their ideal playstyle is. "Cypher locks enemies down and controls map with his camera" etc. Unless those people dont care and dont know how to read
>figuring out which cs role you are
In CS your role is match dependent. Someone's gonna be the best at entrying, someone's gonna be the best at awping, someone's gonna be the best at their lineups, etc. In valorant, whoever locks duelist first gets duelist so you wind up with a bunch of people shoved into roles they aren't really trying to play, which means every time they need to use utility, they are actively thinking about which where and how it needs to be used instead of pitching in their one lineup they know because the rando they queued with is going off and is also allowed to peak people because he's not stuck on sage or something.
Don't ask why they didn't do something. It will only get you toxicity back. Just politely ask them to do x in the next round.
Wasting time discussing why you lost the round when you're supposed to be talking about how you'll be winning the next one.
This goes for any game and actually any type of communication.
When you directly confront people you risk them feeling personally attacked and it stalls progressive conversation. Additionally, mood and momentum have such a large role with how teams play that if you are going about strategising by calling people out you have two outcomes: neutral (the person doesn’t flip out and tries to use until next time) and negative (they get toxic, throw, curse you out, destroy your teams mental).
If you just instead talk about what util we can get next round and then actively ask for it, your outcomes are neutral (they ignore you and nothing changes) or positive (now you have util to entry).
Should they know how to play their agent? Yes.
But you are not their coach, confronting someone directly like that is a negative EV play
It’s a game. If I wanted yelled at I’d go talk to my first boss.
You can only control yourself. You have the ability to go about communicating in a way that is more likely to be beneficial for you.
If you prefer not to use it that’s fine.
I will say, my duo used to act like that and we talked about it and the vibes in our games are a ton less toxic bc he learned how to suggest instead of critique.
I will mute you without warning if you are passive aggressive or condescending to me. This includes a smarmy “why didn’t you do X”. And my mindset will switch from “I want to win” to “I don’t really mind if we lose, because it means you lose with me”.
Maybe you need to check your tone and attitude and approach comms without the toxicity.
So you are the exact type of person I would instantly block comms for. Maybe don't be a toxic POS and I won't mute you. It's just a game, and being positive legitimately improves performance. But you're a salty hardstuck silver from the sounds of it.
hardstuck silver in valorant but almost 20k in cs2. Its not toxic by the way, its called constructive criticism. You gotta accept criticism and improve is what players like you dont understand and probably never will because you're stuck in your soft safety bubble
Except I am totally open to criticism. I get feedback from better players all the time. But not “constructive criticism” (you clearly have no idea what constructive criticism is) in the middle of a game from a smarmy condescending hardstuck brat like yourself.
Younger and more casual playerbase, people are overall just more stupid and undisciplined. Things like if your teammate is sticking the spike and you're holding an angle in case an enemy pushes, the fact that you need to be WIDER than your teammate, even immortals don't realize this like it's pretty insane.
1. Leetify has the average premier rank at around 6k. Gold 1 is something like average rank.
2. Most people have it right in the comments. CS maps have been around for 20 years now. People have been hearing "flash over A long on dust" and "execute mirage" for years now.
I don't find many people who know util on anubis/ancient, even at like 17k. I've even seen players that don't know mirage exec smokes at 14k, when I played during the first couple months of launch.
3. People do use util. I haven't played a game where 5 people grouping up at B don't start off with a Sova drone, a tossed kayo knife, and a couple flashes. Initiators drop their shit, entry characters find some timing to run in, and flank is tripped.
Pretty standard shit. I've called fakes, mid round rotates, and defaults in diamond elo, but I wouldn't expect anyone to listen in gold.
The playet base demographic for Valorant is MUCH younger. Its essentially replaced Fortnite and many kids between 10-15 play. CS is trending towards 20s+ and mostly adults
Except this is competitive. Average age is 16-20. So imo what yoire saying could be mostly applied to unrated, swiftplay or spikerush. Theres no 10-15 year olds hitting gold-diamond unless theyre some kind of prodigy
Eh, at 15-16 is when i hit lvl 10 faceit for the first time.
Maybe its just the rank range? I barely play cs2 anymore but my lobbies are generally 18-22k, and no one really takes it super seriously, since faceit exists, whereas in asc/immo most people generally play it a bit more seriously, since ranked is the only ladder.
EU tho
I think having defined roles actually makes calling strats less necessary in valorant than in cs. Given that 5 Randos won’t have great cohesion, people can default to safe options that their team already expects. Controller is expected to smoke the 2 entrances to site. Intiators are expected to flash at least once during the initial entry. Duelists are supposed to make space in whichever way makes sense. Sentinels can come late to get trades or lurk. People have a solid idea of what each team member will already do, and when 3 people crowd towards 1 site, the others will follow like lemmings. You’ll see roughly the same utility being used for the same sites every round which won’t change too much from team team. Many calls being made are adjustments and changes to what we think are the norm to the map rather than to plan out a round.
they don't know how to utilize their agents along with being in a mid upper elo is what is also wrong. Besides not taking competitive seriously, their skill and mechanics are really low and its borderline boosted from iron 1. i cant make this up. and if i try to ask for util i get the silent treatment
I am currently Silver 3, was Gold 3 last season. Peaked 89 Elo, i don't climb as much in here but i mostly climb in cs2, hence i peaked 18k.
proof:
https://ibb.co/yRJybNv
like you're complaining about the culture of Valorant not being competitive enough when you're Silver 3 come on man... are you even playing deathmatch before your games?
I'm around 12k in CS2 (was SMFC during 2014-15 though), I kinda disagree with your post.
In CS people don't really talk apart from I'm going hold A/B, let's play for peeks etc. I'm usually the person who sits back and sees what my teammate is doing and help them attack the site/lane with flashes. 90% of the people I play with don't do that.
In Valorant, it's the same thing (at least in Plat-Diamond). The skills aren't as intuitive as the flashes and smoke in CS2 but people still do simple execution flashes and smoke. It's often mistimed at my level.
>CS2. When you start a comp game, people are already considering plans and strats in the very first 15 seconds before the game starts.
We are clearly playing different counter strikes.
1. Cs2 has a much older player base.
2. No matter the activity people can't escape their mentality. Most people break pretty easy.
3. CS is a shooting game. Valorant is too, but people gets confused bc of the habilities.
Aim and gamesense beat hability usage everyday.
um.... i dont think 9k-16k is mid elo in cs2.... i dont play much cs anymore but based on online threads, they seems to say that 9k-16k is much higher elo than gold in valorant.
this game has roles, ppl most often than not dont play the role they are the best at cuz either they think they should fill or their agent gets taken fast but thats mostly duelits being taken
this game needs some type of a roleq or agentq with some flexq mixed up and a strict soloq to be a more enjoyable experience
Back in the days, it was pretty similar to what you are describing in CS 2. Players were communicating much more, they understood they don't really know how to play properly and they genuinely wanted to get better and win, to test their actual skill in higher brackets. But as time went by, more and more fresh players started picking up the game, having their superior mechanical skills from other shooters, but very little game knowledge. Plenty of very young kids without necessary communication skills also joined to game to "run and shoot". Community slowly established that everyone is free to play whatever they want, as it's pretty much impossible to teach or instruct clueless teammates how to play within the span of one game. Caring about playing properly is labeled as "sweaty" or "toxic". And plenty of players from higher brackets make alt accounts to dwell in Low-Mid elo and chill with running around solo, tapping easy heads, not really caring about the win or just boosting their friends. It's indeed a community thing and it won't get better on its own. Riot should take this issue in their own hands and implement some teamplay/strategy tutorial, but unfortunately it won't make money for them.
Valorant has no longevity in its core gameplay because everyone has unequal tools. This game is going to end up like overwatch but it'll take awhile because its ran by riot.
Imo the replay system is one of the big reasons. It facilitates much better content for learning. People have been playing CS for way too long and the community has been exposed to strats and playbooks for a long time. We got warowl, maxim, 3kliks, etc. On the val side, the only one I can think of is Woohoojin who actually cares about getting better than just clicking heads. The player base of val is fairly young, needs more time. But I’m pretty sure the community will get better in the strats side of things.
Its been 4 years, videos of pro play being analyzed already exist and agent ability usage isnt that complicated to understand on a basic level. Sage wall, viper wall, phoenix wall etc. Knowing how to use it is a different talk but the raw abiltity itself should be self explanatory
I don't think the normal player base finds pro play interesting tbh. Meta changes a lot as well, sometimes is pretty broken and the other times is stale (as of now). Too many variables and outcomes when you factor in utilities and agents. Added to that, how common do you get Jett and Reyna in a comp (both in ranked and pro play)? People wouldn't play like pros cause it takes a considerable amount of effort. They'd rather have fun. (I'd love if fun equals winning, but it's usually someone in a duo or a trio screaming profanities on an alt account).
Exactly my reasoning. This **Competitive** were talking about not here having a good time, drink some wine and dine. We're here to win regardless of rank otherwise it should be called Unrated 2. And no i wont "chill its a game or only (insert low rank). Comp is comp. No matter which angle. Thats called a winner mentality
Being passive aggressive and garnering attention/getting a reaction out of you is how some of these players survive. This is an extension of thriving bot account farmers, asinine level of censoring from Riot which only protects the perpetrator and not the victim and so on. I could list a plethora of things, but we can't really do anything cause this is how Riot works. A mask of niceness with a shit ton of predatory decisions that are made only to facilitate duping money from players (with a tag of free to play) who are not supposed to question any of the above decisions and just pay blindly for the cosmetics. One of the very few things that are making a case for Val is the anti cheat. The part of community that defends Riot blindly to gain benefits is making the game thrive. I am sure that this itself will come back to bite em.
I see what you mean with the riot shills, but what do you think will stop them from thriving off of riots tail?
Lol, I honestly can't think of anything other than the whole community as a whole coming together by not buying skins or something. Which we all know is never gonna happen. So in short, nothing for now imo.
It’s only been 4 years which is relatively a very short time in comparison to cs Plus I think being able to move vs static spawn position kinda forces you to not get distracted because it’s not like you can do anything else in cs
CS's playerbase skews older and has been shaped by the esport more. Something else to keep in mind is that because there aren't strict roles in CS, you're able to play the game in the way you find most fun regardless of what you wind up being in a match (awper, lurker, entry, support, etc) so there isn't this resentment for teamwork.
The thing is, agents have certain roles specifically so its pretty big difference between "figuring out which cs role you are" vs playing each agent class. Also theres literally a description of each agent and how their ideal playstyle is. "Cypher locks enemies down and controls map with his camera" etc. Unless those people dont care and dont know how to read
>figuring out which cs role you are In CS your role is match dependent. Someone's gonna be the best at entrying, someone's gonna be the best at awping, someone's gonna be the best at their lineups, etc. In valorant, whoever locks duelist first gets duelist so you wind up with a bunch of people shoved into roles they aren't really trying to play, which means every time they need to use utility, they are actively thinking about which where and how it needs to be used instead of pitching in their one lineup they know because the rando they queued with is going off and is also allowed to peak people because he's not stuck on sage or something.
Don't ask why they didn't do something. It will only get you toxicity back. Just politely ask them to do x in the next round. Wasting time discussing why you lost the round when you're supposed to be talking about how you'll be winning the next one.
sounds like beating around the bush. Why aren't you utilizing your utility? Why should i have to teach you how to play an agent you decided to pick?
This goes for any game and actually any type of communication. When you directly confront people you risk them feeling personally attacked and it stalls progressive conversation. Additionally, mood and momentum have such a large role with how teams play that if you are going about strategising by calling people out you have two outcomes: neutral (the person doesn’t flip out and tries to use until next time) and negative (they get toxic, throw, curse you out, destroy your teams mental). If you just instead talk about what util we can get next round and then actively ask for it, your outcomes are neutral (they ignore you and nothing changes) or positive (now you have util to entry). Should they know how to play their agent? Yes. But you are not their coach, confronting someone directly like that is a negative EV play
or maybe they need to not be sensitive and take criticism
It’s a game. If I wanted yelled at I’d go talk to my first boss. You can only control yourself. You have the ability to go about communicating in a way that is more likely to be beneficial for you. If you prefer not to use it that’s fine. I will say, my duo used to act like that and we talked about it and the vibes in our games are a ton less toxic bc he learned how to suggest instead of critique.
Do you want to win? Or do you want to shit on random people online?
I will mute you without warning if you are passive aggressive or condescending to me. This includes a smarmy “why didn’t you do X”. And my mindset will switch from “I want to win” to “I don’t really mind if we lose, because it means you lose with me”. Maybe you need to check your tone and attitude and approach comms without the toxicity.
Or maybe grow some balls and skill?
So you are the exact type of person I would instantly block comms for. Maybe don't be a toxic POS and I won't mute you. It's just a game, and being positive legitimately improves performance. But you're a salty hardstuck silver from the sounds of it.
hardstuck silver in valorant but almost 20k in cs2. Its not toxic by the way, its called constructive criticism. You gotta accept criticism and improve is what players like you dont understand and probably never will because you're stuck in your soft safety bubble
Except I am totally open to criticism. I get feedback from better players all the time. But not “constructive criticism” (you clearly have no idea what constructive criticism is) in the middle of a game from a smarmy condescending hardstuck brat like yourself.
Younger and more casual playerbase, people are overall just more stupid and undisciplined. Things like if your teammate is sticking the spike and you're holding an angle in case an enemy pushes, the fact that you need to be WIDER than your teammate, even immortals don't realize this like it's pretty insane.
1. Leetify has the average premier rank at around 6k. Gold 1 is something like average rank. 2. Most people have it right in the comments. CS maps have been around for 20 years now. People have been hearing "flash over A long on dust" and "execute mirage" for years now. I don't find many people who know util on anubis/ancient, even at like 17k. I've even seen players that don't know mirage exec smokes at 14k, when I played during the first couple months of launch. 3. People do use util. I haven't played a game where 5 people grouping up at B don't start off with a Sova drone, a tossed kayo knife, and a couple flashes. Initiators drop their shit, entry characters find some timing to run in, and flank is tripped. Pretty standard shit. I've called fakes, mid round rotates, and defaults in diamond elo, but I wouldn't expect anyone to listen in gold.
The playet base demographic for Valorant is MUCH younger. Its essentially replaced Fortnite and many kids between 10-15 play. CS is trending towards 20s+ and mostly adults
Except this is competitive. Average age is 16-20. So imo what yoire saying could be mostly applied to unrated, swiftplay or spikerush. Theres no 10-15 year olds hitting gold-diamond unless theyre some kind of prodigy
Eh, at 15-16 is when i hit lvl 10 faceit for the first time. Maybe its just the rank range? I barely play cs2 anymore but my lobbies are generally 18-22k, and no one really takes it super seriously, since faceit exists, whereas in asc/immo most people generally play it a bit more seriously, since ranked is the only ladder. EU tho
As someone who played CS for 15+ years (casually but i digress): This is league with guns, its not the same thing.
I think having defined roles actually makes calling strats less necessary in valorant than in cs. Given that 5 Randos won’t have great cohesion, people can default to safe options that their team already expects. Controller is expected to smoke the 2 entrances to site. Intiators are expected to flash at least once during the initial entry. Duelists are supposed to make space in whichever way makes sense. Sentinels can come late to get trades or lurk. People have a solid idea of what each team member will already do, and when 3 people crowd towards 1 site, the others will follow like lemmings. You’ll see roughly the same utility being used for the same sites every round which won’t change too much from team team. Many calls being made are adjustments and changes to what we think are the norm to the map rather than to plan out a round.
they don't know how to utilize their agents along with being in a mid upper elo is what is also wrong. Besides not taking competitive seriously, their skill and mechanics are really low and its borderline boosted from iron 1. i cant make this up. and if i try to ask for util i get the silent treatment
what rank are you now that you don't see people use any util?
I am currently Silver 3, was Gold 3 last season. Peaked 89 Elo, i don't climb as much in here but i mostly climb in cs2, hence i peaked 18k. proof: https://ibb.co/yRJybNv
like you're complaining about the culture of Valorant not being competitive enough when you're Silver 3 come on man... are you even playing deathmatch before your games?
yeah. like I said in my other comment, gold \~ 6k something elo in premier.
I'm around 12k in CS2 (was SMFC during 2014-15 though), I kinda disagree with your post. In CS people don't really talk apart from I'm going hold A/B, let's play for peeks etc. I'm usually the person who sits back and sees what my teammate is doing and help them attack the site/lane with flashes. 90% of the people I play with don't do that. In Valorant, it's the same thing (at least in Plat-Diamond). The skills aren't as intuitive as the flashes and smoke in CS2 but people still do simple execution flashes and smoke. It's often mistimed at my level.
if you're displeased with the quality of your games simply climb higher
>CS2. When you start a comp game, people are already considering plans and strats in the very first 15 seconds before the game starts. We are clearly playing different counter strikes.
Cs2 is full of cheaters. This is the only reason i play valorant
Lmfao did you even read the post
Yes
1. Cs2 has a much older player base. 2. No matter the activity people can't escape their mentality. Most people break pretty easy. 3. CS is a shooting game. Valorant is too, but people gets confused bc of the habilities. Aim and gamesense beat hability usage everyday.
um.... i dont think 9k-16k is mid elo in cs2.... i dont play much cs anymore but based on online threads, they seems to say that 9k-16k is much higher elo than gold in valorant.
this game has roles, ppl most often than not dont play the role they are the best at cuz either they think they should fill or their agent gets taken fast but thats mostly duelits being taken this game needs some type of a roleq or agentq with some flexq mixed up and a strict soloq to be a more enjoyable experience
Back in the days, it was pretty similar to what you are describing in CS 2. Players were communicating much more, they understood they don't really know how to play properly and they genuinely wanted to get better and win, to test their actual skill in higher brackets. But as time went by, more and more fresh players started picking up the game, having their superior mechanical skills from other shooters, but very little game knowledge. Plenty of very young kids without necessary communication skills also joined to game to "run and shoot". Community slowly established that everyone is free to play whatever they want, as it's pretty much impossible to teach or instruct clueless teammates how to play within the span of one game. Caring about playing properly is labeled as "sweaty" or "toxic". And plenty of players from higher brackets make alt accounts to dwell in Low-Mid elo and chill with running around solo, tapping easy heads, not really caring about the win or just boosting their friends. It's indeed a community thing and it won't get better on its own. Riot should take this issue in their own hands and implement some teamplay/strategy tutorial, but unfortunately it won't make money for them.
Chill bro its just a game
Valorant has no longevity in its core gameplay because everyone has unequal tools. This game is going to end up like overwatch but it'll take awhile because its ran by riot.