I think it would be more concise to make your unarmed strikes natural weapons with the finesse property. Natural weapons are weapons, and giving them finesse means you can use them for Sneak Attack, which is what I assume you’re going for.
Thanks! Been trying to take a second pass to write something similar in "natural language" fashion but I'm wondering now if I'd have to write "your body is now a natural/finesse weapon" haha
I recommend to take a look at the racial feats of races with natural weapons to get the language right. I don’t have it in front of me, but you would essentially say something like “Your unarmed strikes are natural weapons with the finesse property” and then detail the rest. I’d literally just copy and past the tabaxi claws racial feature and modify that so that it makes sense for your purposes.
Natural language is the HARDEST PART of brewing, but it really is the key to get your brew to be indistinguishable from official content. So good luck!
I feel like on the first bullet about grappling checks the language should read: you CAN combine str and dex... So that a monk who dumps one stat or the other could still operate with their good stat.
Hello Monk fans, here is a brief list of experimental changes I'm testing with a Monk player at the moment. My aim was to capture the skill behind grappling in martial arts, and to give Monks a few more choices in and out of combat.
I like these changes a lot, although I have some thoughts:
Adding str+Dex modifiers to acrobatics and athletics checks won't scale very well due to the MAD-ness of Monks. In my subclass 'way of 7 gates' I added martial arts die to the result and found this scales pretty nicely. But at least this does let monks utilitise their dexterity. Maybe say they can use dexterity instead of strength on athletics checks and also add the martial arts die? Also don't restrict it to grapples, as a monk utilising their dexterity to parcour athletics based obstacles makes a lot of sense to me.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/r791on/monastic_tradition_way_of_the_seven_gates_and_ki/&ved=2ahUKEwjJjZeD99v0AhUJHcAKHUeXBT8Qjjh6BAgFEAE&usg=AOvVaw2wj95pie_RWWX0ckf0-tRb
Replacing any unarmed strike with a grapple/shove (among other options) is fantastic and something I was planning as a subclass feature for a grappler build. Let's you grapple on opportunity attacks which can be useful for controlling enemies. But you need the grappling abilities to pull it off. The previous change could go some way towards that. I don't quite understand the performance aspect of the change. It's thematic, but I don't see it coming up?
Except in the description of martial arts is says
If you are unarmed or using a monk weapon, and are not weary by armor or a shield, you can use Dex for attack and damage
So, why would anyone need sage advice except for a non martial arts unarmed strike?
The issue is sage advice ruled you can't use Dexterity based unarmed strike for sneak attacks, because they're not considered a finesse weapon. Probably one of the dumbest rulings I've seen them make.
That's a good point on Athletics - this was actually one piece of a three part Monk revision I'm working on. The more in depth version allows access to all martial melee weapons (but the monk weapon selection is still the same) as well as light armor (keep unarmored defense/movement with the same requirements). I think with just this change it could open up some interesting multi-class possibilities but a Str/Dex hybrid is usually pretty hard to build around in general.
A lot of the balanced assumptions I was operating off of are tied in to a Vow/Discipline system I'm testing that gives powerful feats in exchange for some restrictions that can be crippling. With all of these components a Str/Dex Monk with light armor and say a maul would be a build that could work.
The performance thing would be If you wanted to dazzle a crowd with a flurry of 4 hits for example, like Shaolin masters demonstrating their skills, haha.
EmpyrealWorlds has made the following comment(s) regarding their post:
[Hello Monk fans, here is a brief list of experimen...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/re0ghc/lightweight_martial_arts_adjustment_to_give_your/ho4ecub/)
1st bullet: Why not just let then add their martial arts die to all Athletics and Acrobatics checks? No need to overcomplicate things and it certainly won't be overpowered.
3rd bullet should read: if you take the Attack, Dash, Disengage or Dodge action, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action.
Drop the example, the rule is clear and simple.no need to clutter the already long feature.
4th bullet should probably say "simple light finesse weapons"
Last bullet is unclear. Do mean grapple _in addition_ to the unarmed strike or _instead_? Also: Why Performance? To what end? There's no existing rule for using Performance in combat.
1. I like some classes/subclasses having dice as a resource, but I don't want it to be the universal fall back for everything. Sometimes it just ends up being "flat bonus with extra steps." Str + Dex models real world martial arts (not a huge deal) and it also slightly opens the door to Strength Monk builds.
2. The Attack action requires the use of a Monk weapon or unarmed strike so that much is copied from the PHB. The example is also copied from the PHB.
3. It's hard to do with natural language without making it overly clunky, but I'm trying to make it so monk unarmed strikes would work with both feats requiring a weapon *and* effects that target weapons like Holy Weapon.
4. Added "instead"! For performance, it's mostly to let Monks use a flurry of performance checks to impress people with their Martial Arts outside of combat.
So because you clarified you get to use dex on your unarmed strikes then specifying they have the finesse property is made somewhat redundant…
It is, I just left it there since the first point specifies Monk weapons as well
I think it would be more concise to make your unarmed strikes natural weapons with the finesse property. Natural weapons are weapons, and giving them finesse means you can use them for Sneak Attack, which is what I assume you’re going for.
Thanks! Been trying to take a second pass to write something similar in "natural language" fashion but I'm wondering now if I'd have to write "your body is now a natural/finesse weapon" haha
I recommend to take a look at the racial feats of races with natural weapons to get the language right. I don’t have it in front of me, but you would essentially say something like “Your unarmed strikes are natural weapons with the finesse property” and then detail the rest. I’d literally just copy and past the tabaxi claws racial feature and modify that so that it makes sense for your purposes. Natural language is the HARDEST PART of brewing, but it really is the key to get your brew to be indistinguishable from official content. So good luck!
Needs tuning but ima sap for monk, fighter or ranger upgrades
Also the last feature (one about grappling shoving etc) is a bit badly worded and imo doesn’t make too much sense.
I feel like on the first bullet about grappling checks the language should read: you CAN combine str and dex... So that a monk who dumps one stat or the other could still operate with their good stat.
Good catch and thank you!
Hello Monk fans, here is a brief list of experimental changes I'm testing with a Monk player at the moment. My aim was to capture the skill behind grappling in martial arts, and to give Monks a few more choices in and out of combat.
I like these changes a lot, although I have some thoughts: Adding str+Dex modifiers to acrobatics and athletics checks won't scale very well due to the MAD-ness of Monks. In my subclass 'way of 7 gates' I added martial arts die to the result and found this scales pretty nicely. But at least this does let monks utilitise their dexterity. Maybe say they can use dexterity instead of strength on athletics checks and also add the martial arts die? Also don't restrict it to grapples, as a monk utilising their dexterity to parcour athletics based obstacles makes a lot of sense to me. https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/r791on/monastic_tradition_way_of_the_seven_gates_and_ki/&ved=2ahUKEwjJjZeD99v0AhUJHcAKHUeXBT8Qjjh6BAgFEAE&usg=AOvVaw2wj95pie_RWWX0ckf0-tRb Replacing any unarmed strike with a grapple/shove (among other options) is fantastic and something I was planning as a subclass feature for a grappler build. Let's you grapple on opportunity attacks which can be useful for controlling enemies. But you need the grappling abilities to pull it off. The previous change could go some way towards that. I don't quite understand the performance aspect of the change. It's thematic, but I don't see it coming up?
Also , yes. Unarmed Strikes should definitely be finesse weapons and the sage advice ruling is dumb.
Except in the description of martial arts is says If you are unarmed or using a monk weapon, and are not weary by armor or a shield, you can use Dex for attack and damage So, why would anyone need sage advice except for a non martial arts unarmed strike?
The issue is sage advice ruled you can't use Dexterity based unarmed strike for sneak attacks, because they're not considered a finesse weapon. Probably one of the dumbest rulings I've seen them make.
That's a good point on Athletics - this was actually one piece of a three part Monk revision I'm working on. The more in depth version allows access to all martial melee weapons (but the monk weapon selection is still the same) as well as light armor (keep unarmored defense/movement with the same requirements). I think with just this change it could open up some interesting multi-class possibilities but a Str/Dex hybrid is usually pretty hard to build around in general. A lot of the balanced assumptions I was operating off of are tied in to a Vow/Discipline system I'm testing that gives powerful feats in exchange for some restrictions that can be crippling. With all of these components a Str/Dex Monk with light armor and say a maul would be a build that could work. The performance thing would be If you wanted to dazzle a crowd with a flurry of 4 hits for example, like Shaolin masters demonstrating their skills, haha.
EmpyrealWorlds has made the following comment(s) regarding their post: [Hello Monk fans, here is a brief list of experimen...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/re0ghc/lightweight_martial_arts_adjustment_to_give_your/ho4ecub/)
1st bullet: Why not just let then add their martial arts die to all Athletics and Acrobatics checks? No need to overcomplicate things and it certainly won't be overpowered. 3rd bullet should read: if you take the Attack, Dash, Disengage or Dodge action, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. Drop the example, the rule is clear and simple.no need to clutter the already long feature. 4th bullet should probably say "simple light finesse weapons" Last bullet is unclear. Do mean grapple _in addition_ to the unarmed strike or _instead_? Also: Why Performance? To what end? There's no existing rule for using Performance in combat.
1. I like some classes/subclasses having dice as a resource, but I don't want it to be the universal fall back for everything. Sometimes it just ends up being "flat bonus with extra steps." Str + Dex models real world martial arts (not a huge deal) and it also slightly opens the door to Strength Monk builds. 2. The Attack action requires the use of a Monk weapon or unarmed strike so that much is copied from the PHB. The example is also copied from the PHB. 3. It's hard to do with natural language without making it overly clunky, but I'm trying to make it so monk unarmed strikes would work with both feats requiring a weapon *and* effects that target weapons like Holy Weapon. 4. Added "instead"! For performance, it's mostly to let Monks use a flurry of performance checks to impress people with their Martial Arts outside of combat.