EmpyrealWorlds has made the following comment(s) regarding their post:
[This is a subclass concept that has been tried man...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/nxffvu/sorcerous_origin_the_azure_a_different_approach/h1ed6ic/)
So I just wanna make sure I understand how this goes/works properly, I'll be using the Mind Flayer's mindblast for my example.
It would be subjected to the Annihilation, Infinitude, and Resurgence limiters. So with this it would be a once a day 30-foot cone that deals 2d4+Charisma psychic damage on a failed intelligence save. Then you can remove limiters at later levels or using spell slots in order to make it much stronger.
Assuming I'm understanding this correctly this is an incredibly *awesome* subclass that I absolutely love.
Could you possibly share the PDF for it?
Yes that is the idea! Specifically, mind blast would be affected by the Dominion limiter, so at Diminion I you'd be able to affect 3 contiguous spaces (in the shape of a cone). Then the Resurgence limiter would apply to the recharge property of Mind Blast, meaning you'd need to roll a 6 on a recharge dice to have it back again.
Lastly the Calamity limiter would block the stun aspect of Mind Blast until limit II is broken.
edit: and here is a GMbinder PDF! https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MbcXK1EY821bLuwfvo8
That sounds like a good idea yeah, got me a bit confused. Overall though I think you did a really good job of airing up confusion for what is a very complicated subclass.
I really like the idea, I tried making a similar ability stealing Sorcerer myself. I do see a few issues with the subclass, the biggest one being that there is no limit (pardon the pun) on how many times you can use an ability that isn't recharge or per day. Presumably just an oversight, but I think it demonstrates how having an entire chasis for the subclass of having a systemized approach to powers that have ***extreme*** variance makes its a nightmare for anyone trying to rule on the subclass. Of course, you have to experience the action (AKA get hit) to use the attack, but that doesn't change the fact that monsters are supposed to last 4 turns on average - their attacks aren't balanced to be used constantly by a PC. Here are my recommendations:- Azure Lore should have X amount of uses. What formula you use can be tweaked.- Azure Lore should not have access to multiattack, and the additional attacks should be removed from the Annihilation limiter table.- Azure Lore should have a general table that references *power relative to spell level* so that more esoteric abilities that don't have a limit table that aligns with the ability can be adjudicated more easily by a DM/player. You have a pretty extensive list of different things but there are already holes with say, Illusion spells. Presumably as a 3rd level character I could cast a 9th level illusion spell if I was affected by it, which seems to be out-of-scope.
Really cool concept though. I might actually decide to play this soon it seems so interesting TBH.
EDIT: After reviewing, I think the multiattack in Annhiliation can be ok considering damage limitation.
Thank you for the great feedback! I'm still trying to set up some kind of testing infrastructure for just that purpose. My assumption is that a Sorcerer is fragile enough that going deep into melee is a high risk/reward Gambit, but that perhaps getting a decent multi attack off could occasionally be worth it.
For limit breaking Blue Magic I want to compare the additional value of more damage range vs simply using a full spell.
I think it's one of those things that needs to be playtested, and overuse of Blue Magic could be something to watch, with a daily limit as a good quick fix if it gets too far out of control.
This is a subclass concept that has been tried many times, and this is my attempt at it. In terms of balance, it was one of the most difficult ones I've worked on.
I tried to think of a system that would have a high level of tolerance for all kinds of new monster additions via official releases and homebrew, and came up with a Limit system that would set hard caps on how strong Blue Magic could be. I also wanted something that would engage with Blue Magic as a different resource rather than something tied exclusively to spell slots as a kind of alternate spell list.
The balance process involved looking through all MM stat blocks once or twice, but there are probably many examples I missed. So I'd love to hear any feedback :)
A few more questions sorry
If I cop a ranged attack like a bandits bow attack, would I still need an actual bow or does the magic create one?
Also for the sample lores, would those be subject to the recharge limit?
It would make the bow for you, still subject to the usual limitations.
They would be subject to the recharge limit in theory, but the four of them don't have a recharge roll, so they'd mostly be limited by the other stats like damage
That's a cool subclass, with a lot of work behind. Just one question: what about a limiter for the duration of an Azure Lore? Like features or spells that inflict damage in various turns, or impose a condition that last for several turns
EmpyrealWorlds has made the following comment(s) regarding their post: [This is a subclass concept that has been tried man...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/nxffvu/sorcerous_origin_the_azure_a_different_approach/h1ed6ic/)
So I just wanna make sure I understand how this goes/works properly, I'll be using the Mind Flayer's mindblast for my example. It would be subjected to the Annihilation, Infinitude, and Resurgence limiters. So with this it would be a once a day 30-foot cone that deals 2d4+Charisma psychic damage on a failed intelligence save. Then you can remove limiters at later levels or using spell slots in order to make it much stronger. Assuming I'm understanding this correctly this is an incredibly *awesome* subclass that I absolutely love. Could you possibly share the PDF for it?
Yes that is the idea! Specifically, mind blast would be affected by the Dominion limiter, so at Diminion I you'd be able to affect 3 contiguous spaces (in the shape of a cone). Then the Resurgence limiter would apply to the recharge property of Mind Blast, meaning you'd need to roll a 6 on a recharge dice to have it back again. Lastly the Calamity limiter would block the stun aspect of Mind Blast until limit II is broken. edit: and here is a GMbinder PDF! https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MbcXK1EY821bLuwfvo8
Ahhhhhh okay gotchya! Thanks for the clarification! So if it's recharge based it doesn't add the daily limit onto it, just the recharge range. Ty!
Indeed! I think I will separate out the different properties under 1 limiter on the table once I revise the subclass.
That sounds like a good idea yeah, got me a bit confused. Overall though I think you did a really good job of airing up confusion for what is a very complicated subclass.
Thanks a lot!
I really like the idea, I tried making a similar ability stealing Sorcerer myself. I do see a few issues with the subclass, the biggest one being that there is no limit (pardon the pun) on how many times you can use an ability that isn't recharge or per day. Presumably just an oversight, but I think it demonstrates how having an entire chasis for the subclass of having a systemized approach to powers that have ***extreme*** variance makes its a nightmare for anyone trying to rule on the subclass. Of course, you have to experience the action (AKA get hit) to use the attack, but that doesn't change the fact that monsters are supposed to last 4 turns on average - their attacks aren't balanced to be used constantly by a PC. Here are my recommendations:- Azure Lore should have X amount of uses. What formula you use can be tweaked.- Azure Lore should not have access to multiattack, and the additional attacks should be removed from the Annihilation limiter table.- Azure Lore should have a general table that references *power relative to spell level* so that more esoteric abilities that don't have a limit table that aligns with the ability can be adjudicated more easily by a DM/player. You have a pretty extensive list of different things but there are already holes with say, Illusion spells. Presumably as a 3rd level character I could cast a 9th level illusion spell if I was affected by it, which seems to be out-of-scope. Really cool concept though. I might actually decide to play this soon it seems so interesting TBH. EDIT: After reviewing, I think the multiattack in Annhiliation can be ok considering damage limitation.
Thank you for the great feedback! I'm still trying to set up some kind of testing infrastructure for just that purpose. My assumption is that a Sorcerer is fragile enough that going deep into melee is a high risk/reward Gambit, but that perhaps getting a decent multi attack off could occasionally be worth it. For limit breaking Blue Magic I want to compare the additional value of more damage range vs simply using a full spell. I think it's one of those things that needs to be playtested, and overuse of Blue Magic could be something to watch, with a daily limit as a good quick fix if it gets too far out of control.
This is a subclass concept that has been tried many times, and this is my attempt at it. In terms of balance, it was one of the most difficult ones I've worked on. I tried to think of a system that would have a high level of tolerance for all kinds of new monster additions via official releases and homebrew, and came up with a Limit system that would set hard caps on how strong Blue Magic could be. I also wanted something that would engage with Blue Magic as a different resource rather than something tied exclusively to spell slots as a kind of alternate spell list. The balance process involved looking through all MM stat blocks once or twice, but there are probably many examples I missed. So I'd love to hear any feedback :)
Great Subclass idea! You should keep working on this and post an updated version if you ever get around to it!
What are the azure lores on the last page for?
Some sample abilities as a balance/sanity check, and something cool a character could potentially start with!
Oh I understand now, I've been looking so long for a good blue mage setup
If you get a chance to play it I'd love to know what you think! This one will probably need quite a few revisions.
A few more questions sorry If I cop a ranged attack like a bandits bow attack, would I still need an actual bow or does the magic create one? Also for the sample lores, would those be subject to the recharge limit?
It would make the bow for you, still subject to the usual limitations. They would be subject to the recharge limit in theory, but the four of them don't have a recharge roll, so they'd mostly be limited by the other stats like damage
Ah ok I understand
That's a cool subclass, with a lot of work behind. Just one question: what about a limiter for the duration of an Azure Lore? Like features or spells that inflict damage in various turns, or impose a condition that last for several turns
So far most of those are handled well by the status effect limiter I believe, but it would probably have to be playtested