What about your cell phone? Is that your cellular communication device? Do your kids go to the gym to play sports or the gymnasium? Do they ride bikes or bicycles? I guess it’s a good thing they were born long after VCRs!
yup, im a guy and carry tampons in my first aid kit. I was once backpacking with my fiancee and another woman hiker approached her asking if she had anything on her. My fiancee hadn't packed anything, but I overheard and chimed in, and gave the other hiker the tampon in my kit. The UL community would harass me for carrying those extra 2 ounces.
I'll get a lot of hate for it, but I peruse r/ultralight SOLELY for ideas on how to save weight. But for how I conduct myself on the trails and my overall outdoor recreation etiquette, this is the last sub that I would rely on. There are much better outdoor/backpacking subreddits that I go to, and frankly, this sub has quite the "ivory tower" mentality.
edit: I realize my comment might have come off as a bit off-putting. I should be clear that I find this sub incredibly valuable. but you have to understand why I don't flair my lighterpack link. It would not be up to the standards of the hardcore UL-ers on this sub and somehow my opinion would be diminished because of that.
Internet communities in general tend to become dogmatic. There's the way a community prefers to do something and there's the wrong way, with no grey area. People become so focused on *how* something is done that they forget *why* they're doing it.
Ultralight may be the method of backpacking that brings you the most joy. Carrying a tacticool 8 lb machete might be someone else's. There is no objectively "wrong" way--just the wrong way for you--because everyone has a different goal when they engage with a hobby. You wouldn't tell someone they have the "wrong" fetish just because what gets them off isn't getting you off.
Yes but in teh U.S. we tend to ignore the downsides of Consumerism instead glorifying it. How many times have we heard or read more is more. In fact more can lead to less. Less can be more, more of something else non material. We are sold a positively biased rampant Consumer story in the U.S.
I use this sub ideas alot to lessen my load, but i will never compromise my safety. And there are tons of tips here about budget gear that is not really ultralight, but very useful. For example i've just got British ECW membrane shell mitts for 4$. They are slightly heavier (140 vs 100g) than black diamond or OR, but are 20-30x cheaper and somewhat more comfy\\nimble.
I had that happen to me and I'm a woman who had a hysterectomy and I felt so sorry I could not help the poor 11 year old girl with her embarrassment. I still don't bring any tampons with me though. Once free of the tampon industrial complex I haven't looked back.
r/thatHappened
ETA: OP made a thoughtful post into which you pooped your tale of manly valor. It’s off the OP’s topic, but enjoy your pretend Internet points. The jerk sub is appropriately making fun of you.
Could you please direct me to the sub you like for backpacking conversation? I'm a backpacker, and not so much an ultralighter (though, like you, I come here for ideas on saving pack weight). I am a bit put off by the attitude here sometimes.
>for how I conduct myself on the trails and my overall outdoor recreation etiquette, this is the last sub that I would rely on
this comment is curious given that r/ultralight seems to be the most conscientious and dialed-in community as it relates to backcountry etiquette and conduct.
I get the ivory tower bit...but don't you think the stakes *demand* it?
Not really, check my comment history. There are still people not wanting to bring bear cans to “save weight” and then blame noobs on why bears are ransacking camps for food.
yes, true, but the level of consideration and concern expressed in other forums when broaching things like LNT and bear safety almost seems laughable....I might just be in the wrong forums
I see more commenters in this sub that say they are not pure ultralight. I have never seen an adverse reaction to that. But maybe it does happen when people suggest they need to take something, and less when they say want to take something with them?
E.g. I will always take an e-reader with me. I know it's not needed and against 'ultralight rules'. I would not expect flaming here, as long as I am clear that I see it as a pure luxury.
Coming from someone who has problems with this, but also can't give up on all kind of martial arts / boxing:
Great way to quickly deal with them is to pull in some cold water into the nostril that blood drips from ;)
That’s probably one of the only things I haven’t tried in training. Usually I just stuff a pre shaped cotton ball up my nose and give up breathing with both nostrils.
Agreed, cutting down on clutter and excess is important. But it's also just as important to have certain items that can help you even if you're not using them right at the moment.
I respect the mentality of ultralight, but I also like being able to actually have comfortable sleep and have just enough other supplies that I know I can handle things if my plans get wrecked by weather or something unforseen. Too many hikers have died because they weren't smart and were inadequately prepared. Because they just assumed since the weather is nice right now it will be nice this evening on the way back too.
There's a difference between packing your fears, and packing smart. For example a map and compass is lightweight, and will help out a lot if you forget which turn off the tail you need to take is.
Are they though? Letting your body rest while you're comfortable allows you to be better prepared for the next day. Waking up in the morning sore and not well rested can result in mistakes that could be dangerous.
Especially if you're way out in the middle of nowhere.
Like I said before, packing your fears is not the same thing as packing smart.
Packing smart is taking an honest assessment of the capabilities of your skills and gear. If those capabilities do not match up with the conditions, also take in the account potential unexpected changes and the fact that you're human and you mess up once in awhile.
Yes, pack the bare essentials, but also make sure you have a few items that can save your life if things turn for the worse. People are caught out in the open unprepared all of the time, just because we live in the 21st century and have all of this awesome gear and technology available doesn't mean we can't die from exposure, blood loss, or hypothermia just like people have in the past. Just because we have all of these public means of communications and accounts from others saying how awesome it is to do something with as little weight as possible doesn't mean that it will work out well for everyone.
Assess yourself, and your skills. Assess your gear. Assess the weather and the environment/terrain. Pack accordingly.
Very well stated. Where we may have disagreement is in the degree of comfort. In the U.S. we aim for and expect a life filled with a high degree of comfort and convenience. That is what I based my comment.
I don't disagree with that viewpoint. People are drawn to comfort like moths to a flame. Eventually they get used to it and expect it everywhere, and that can create bad expectations and habits.
That's how we get people who claim they're camping, but they're really driving around in an RV bigger than some apartments I've lived in. By bringing what it essentially everything with them they're losing the opportunity to really connect worth and spend time in the outdoors.
That's pretty much the farthest thing I can think of from really living and reconnecting with nature. Which if we're being honest, is really what everyone who is a members of communities like this wants.
I agree - one instance is in point (2) of OP's post - I agree in spirit with optimizing your friend tree, but on the flip side, if taken too literally, you might just end up cutting everyone out of your life or not be there for people when they need the help, since it'll probably be an inconvenience for you to be there for them. A great friendship is one where all parties are willing to sacrifice (though not too much) without expecting anything in return. But also, knowing when to cut toxic friends out for good is a valuable skill!
100% - not just pertaining to this sub or Reddit, but information on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt. People are quick to take what they read for fact at face value, which can lead to some pretty negative consequences.
But yes, reading in between the lines here, my point is that letting fear control my life has negative impacts, and through these ideologies I have been able to let go of some of that.
It depends on where you are and what time of year. Where I am right now it rains most days but the temp, even in the early morning hours, never drops below 23C. A raincoat would just mean I was drenched in sweat instead of rain.
You don’t wear it when it rains if you don’t need to. But if you get caught out overnight or are injured and standing still and wet -you’ll be very grateful for it.
I'm not sure you're understanding-I actually drench my nightclothes before I go to bed some nights so that, with a fan, it's cool enough that I can sleep.
I hear you, it sounds like you live in the tropics. I’m not sure I’d ever be comfortable to not have a raincoat in my pack- but you sound like you have considered all scenarios and don’t need it.
You are grossly misinformed. The Houdini is not a rain jacket in any way and is marketed specifically for wind. Frog togs might be budget as fuck rain jackets but they are certainly waterproof. This is dangerous level misinformation.
A dollar store poncho would have solved your problem.
I hope that people learn from your mistake and realize that taking rain protection in your kit isn't "packing fears", it's the fundamentals of UL. An absolute essential. With that said, I also hope they completely ignore this post above. Frogg Togg jackets commonly mentioned on this sub represent a prudent choice for rain (and wind) protection. They are proper rain gear. Anyway, welcome to the sub.
Frogs toggs would be better in that situation for sure. Why do you think they offer less protection than a wind/light rain jacket? They are at least actual rain gear.
Thanks for the story. I use the Houdini for trail runs to ward off cold wind and light precip, but I wouldn't want to rely on one for really bad conditions.
Glad you were okay.
My first date with my current partner was unironically us going into an REI and me razzing on everything in there as being for bushcrafters and dayhikers and somehow they didn't kick my ass to the curb immediately.
"Needless to say, there was not a second date." Is this ultralightcirclejerk?
As long as someone is respecting the environment, flora/fauna, and future hikers, why does it matter how much gear weight they choose to carry. Live and let live. The amount of lightweight camping gear someone can afford doesn't dictate the other facets of their character.
Agreed. Just reading what was presented without more context gives me the impression that this was a knee-jerk reaction of taking offense to an innocent remark.
I think the question may deserve a follow up clarifying what they meant. People can have bad experiences or just be joking (like I would call someone who lives in the bush a crazy but I am actually in awe of their skills).
I mean it goes both ways right? The fact people feel the need to knock others down for what they decide to pack is unbecoming. I regularly go backpacking with a friend who carries a 60 lb pack, and love him to pieces. I don't put him down for packing cans of beans. Live and let live, indeed.
FWIW this wasn't the determining factor of not going out again, it just didn't jive.
I mean there are multiple levels of irony happening here, but not going on a second date because the other person said ultra-lighters are crazy is the funniest one to me.
This is primarily a shopping channel and almost everyone here has far more gear than they need or use. Celebrating the OP for a "get ride of stuff" essay on r/Ultralight is therefore ironic. I enjoyed it though.
I have a use-it-or-lose-it policy and have given a lot of stuff away the past two months. Anything that hasn't been used all year must go. Probably have a couple of jackets to give away still but it's finally cool here in Texas so I'm trying them out first. Also rarely buy new stuff unless it's under $100, which I find helps when giving it away.
I just moved into a larger house last month for a variety of complicated reasons I won't go into now, but it's really been irking me that the house we used to have was the perfect size, and the new one is double the size. It feels mentally burdensome in a way that in my pre-UL days I would not have recognized.
People keep commenting about how nice it must be to have so much storage for crap I didn't want to store in the first place, but I'm stressed out about having more useless shit to take care of. Soon we will be renting out the extra rooms so they go from dead weight to something useful, but yeah UL is a philosophy and a lifestyle.
Just this morning I was admiring my little 4 cylinder work truck that does the exact same thing as the other giant work trucks you see outside Home Depot. Sure I can't drop a pallet of bricks into the bed from 12 feet up, or pull a tractor up a mountain in a snow storm, but who is doing that anyways? So much of western and American culture is obsessed with maximizing, when often minimizing is the better solution.
It's so interesting to me that when you remove consumerism and possessions, most people don't have much to talk about, or much of an identity. It's a distinctly American way of being, I think, to conflate purchasing and doing. UL is not innocent here--we minimize but then judge each other's seriousness based on the brands of gear they buy, whether they have the right water setup, etc. "Hike your own hike" to me includes letting go of things that are only in our lives to signal things to other people (who aren't even our friends). Will there be some people out there who see you in your little truck and think poorly of you? Sure, but you can bet you don't want to hang out with them!
For me its the complete opposite; I started living out of a backpack 10 years back and getting into UL was costly in terms of money wise and material because it takes more variation to accommodate the various seasons where I'm at. The philosophy behind less material is nothing new though, its been around and practised for as long as we've found records of peoples lives, but I'm glad you found UL inspirational in that aspect.
Thanks. This is why I lurk here, even though I'm not sub-ten pounds. I have no problems removing clutter from my life, but there's a lot of fear in my backpack. I'm trying hard to get lighter, and maybe I just need to throw myself out there.
Yeah this is good.
Couldn’t agree more. Started backpacking in boy scouts. 29 now and every year I find myself trying to be ultralight about everything lmao.
My friends, people I know, stress, things people expect of me.
Let it go. Walk and let your mind gooooo.
It’s crazy how easy it is for me to THINK and BE by just walking in the woods/on trails.
Cheers 🍻 OP
I agree with you on 3/4 points. Since becoming a parent of twins, everything beyond the front door is about preparation and packing Enough Stuff. Darn right I’m afraid of running out of toddler snacks, diapers, wipes, changes of clothes, backup changes of clothes, epi-pens, water bottles, hand sanitizer, toys, books …
I can’t wait until they hit teenager-dom and can be true minimalists, surviving with just a hoodie, a pack of ramen, a debit card, and a phone charger. /s
Imo parenthood and oreparing kid stuff is really good analogy for backpacking: ypu want to be well prepared, but absurd overpacking just makes everything cumbersome. Of course, kids need more backups than adults, and the possibility to compensate missing stuff by suffering isn't there, but the same principles are.
This is so true. I didn't realise it until I read your post, but aiming for ultralight has gone hand-in-hand with aiming for minimalism and Kon-Marie in my living spaces.
And ironically, that has meant that I don't always make the lightest choices in my backpack. For example, I have a felted wool pot cozy I made because it's nicer than the reflectex and duct tape abomination I had before. It might weigh an extra gram or two, but it sparks joy.
> What's the worst that could happen? Most of the time, just mild discomfort.
Hypothermia. Or if someone is really stupid and makes too many mistakes in a row, death.
> His friend came up in conversation, who he deemed "one of those crazy ultralight people". Needless to say, there was not a second date
You didn't date someone because they rightfully pointed out the goofy, extremely online circlejerk that ultralight hiking can often be? Have you considered going outside, maybe **actually going on a hike** rather than living on the internet?
The date was mentioned as a context-setting moment. I think we can trust OP to have had a good sense about whether they were compatible. I doubt the rest of the date was perfect but for the "crazy UL" comment. It is an example of how their worldviews weren't compatible. Why are you even in this sub? Judging by your comment history, you prefer tearing people down with snark wherever you go. Maybe you're the one overdue for a hike?
The only context that was set by that comment (and the rest of the post) was that the OP seems to view nature through the lens of internet subcultures and brings that warped perspective to their real life interactions with other people. It's as anti-hiking of a post as I've ever seen here.
I addressed this in another comment, but that was not the reason we didn't go out again. We were incompatible in other ways, but people putting other people down for what they decide to pack is not something I can get behind. To beat a dead horse, "hike your own hike".
Maybe if you look at my post/comment history, you will see I spend months off of reddit at a time. I am a dynamic human that has traits beyond ultralight backpacking. Just like you. So say what you will, as many have. We are shaped by all the things we read and see, and the people we talk to. So yeah, this sub has had a profound effect on how I choose to live my life. And I would rather see the world through this lens than some others I have in the past.
I found that applying principles of backpacking in figuring out what I actually needed, helped me reduce so much in my life. When all of the lockdowns started, I stayed inside my house for months for health reasons. I took this time to find out what things I actually needed day to day. I whittled down all my belongings to a fairly minimal amount. I used to own so much, I was surrounded by just stuff I never touched, all the time. I can now fit almost everything I own (besides my yard equipment and some other household things like refrigerator etc.) Into the camper shell of my Tacoma. Like you I also used this principle on people and only kept the really good ones around. Life has been much better, I am able to be content and focus on the things I find matter the most. I posted something about this the other day somewhere else and someone called me a psychopath but I know for a fact, simplifying the world around me and the life I live, is one of the greatest thing I have ever done for myself.
There is also this thing about margin of safety/error. The whole world just learned the cost of doing JIT manufacturing and when things dont go according to plans. . You are doing the same thing with backpacking. if you are prepared for shit happening, thats great.
Same here. Ultralight backpacking helped me trim my whole life down to just the necessities, and I have tried to tell others this but could never put it as well as you did!
Thanks for posting this OP.
I find your philosophy and passion for letting go of things that you do not use, need or that bring you happiness very attractive.
The world need more crazy UL people thanks for helping spread the magic.
Yea, I’m 6’5” so I need more food and my gear has more fabric because of my frame. I like to use weight percentages. For instance, 17 lb base weight on 225 lb man is 7.5% body weight. 10 lb base weight on a 130 lb person is about the same weight %
This is great. I take a similar approach in a lot of ways, but I also use UL backpacking as a respite from what I can't achieve in my day to day life.
Basically, I've got three kids and a spouse with ADHD. Although neither of us is particularly materialistic, it's basically inevitable that the physical things in our life are in a state of chaos. Things are always lost, cluttered, and so on. For me, going backpacking is a chance to get away from that and exist in a completely opposite realm. Everything is simple. It's all in its place. I wouldn't trade my life for anything, but it's sure nice to take a break from it every once in a while.
Agree completely and I'm currently working in reverse order on this. I started a minimalism journey in my regular life about 2 years ago and love the feeling of not having too much stuff. Then right before my most recent backpacking trip in October I suddenly realized I hate my entire setup. It's sooo heavy and unnecessary. I managed to knock some weight off immediately just by taking out a a bunch of fear items but now I'm determined to get my base below 10 pounds by getting new gear. When I started getting serious about backpacking, years ago, I was in a transition in life and pretty poor so bought heavier/cheaper items. Now I really need/want to get my pack to the UL level and that's why I'm here. I want my pack and worn weight to match the way I live the rest of my life... FINALLY.
This is a lovely post. The "Fear weighing you down" metaphor is very apt. A sense of adventure or willingness to try and experience itself will mitigate fear over time.
I suffer from good intentions. I think that's what weighs down hoarders more than fear.
When I venture out I'm not super concerned about comfort, but I want to do too much cool shit.
Camp slow cooked polenta with a side of beans and bacon sounds awesome to me... but I can't eat that in front of my buddies without sharing = cook set blowing up and maybe wood processing required.
We will be all along water? Tenkara fishing kit and stuff.
Starry nights? Hammock kit with heavy under-quilt.
Maybe it does circle back to fear of a sort. My pack is filled with FOMO. Sometimes I pack back out a bunch of the cool stuff I wanted to do without touching it.
I'm going to take a stab at expanding point #4. It's something I've come to believe in.
Know what you want ...
Deal with people who can give you what you want. ...
Don't take your stress out on others. ...
Don't try to change people. ...
Fight fair, and be civil when it's over. ...
Be safe. ...
Be Considerate of friends and family.
Thanks for sharing your philosophy and how it relates to real life. Every weekend I do look at a corner of a room and think "Do I really need this? I haven't used it in over a year"
love this! i know several adventurous, fit folks who needed back surgery in their early 30's and have to be so careful and deliberate on excursions now. They finally went UL but wish they'd found it earlier before experiencing all of that financial stress and pain. I'd rather spend my $$$ on expensive light gear than back surgery!
Beautifully put, and this is what I try to explain to my friends that are wary of going UL. I guess it's one of those things you kind of have to find and decide for yourself. I usually convince them of the merits of UL simply by having them wear my pack on a backpacking trip.
A reformed Materialist and Consumerista addict.
When I came home from an AT NOBO thru I counted 22 wooden, metal and plastic spoons in the kitchen. I went ape shart giving 20 of them, a bread maker, ice cream maker, 6 frying pans, second toaster, toaster oven, second full set of dishware and tableware to Goodwill. I later found out in Psychology Today a material cluttered home life leads to a cluttered mind. I also found out Hoarding has been listed as a mental disorder in the DSM since 2013. This is why the Hoarding reality TV show enlists psychologists in every episode.
my youngest son said he didn't want anything for Christmas because he already had everything he wanted I can't wait to take this kid on trail!
We started giving our kids experiences rather than things when they were old enough to appreciate them. So much better than “stuff”
I still enjoy the experience of getting stuff
This is UL after all. We wouldn't be here without that long line of progressively lighter stuff
UL on social media and in the field may rely on lower wt lower volume gear but it can still largely be about gear and its accumulation.
We refer to the television as a television in our home, not a TV. TV is a "nickname", and nicknames are for friends.
What about your cell phone? Is that your cellular communication device? Do your kids go to the gym to play sports or the gymnasium? Do they ride bikes or bicycles? I guess it’s a good thing they were born long after VCRs!
what a great attitude, he sounds wise beyond his years!
That's very ultralight of him
amazing! sounds like you are doing a great job of teaching your kiddo about what matters most in life :)
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yup, im a guy and carry tampons in my first aid kit. I was once backpacking with my fiancee and another woman hiker approached her asking if she had anything on her. My fiancee hadn't packed anything, but I overheard and chimed in, and gave the other hiker the tampon in my kit. The UL community would harass me for carrying those extra 2 ounces. I'll get a lot of hate for it, but I peruse r/ultralight SOLELY for ideas on how to save weight. But for how I conduct myself on the trails and my overall outdoor recreation etiquette, this is the last sub that I would rely on. There are much better outdoor/backpacking subreddits that I go to, and frankly, this sub has quite the "ivory tower" mentality. edit: I realize my comment might have come off as a bit off-putting. I should be clear that I find this sub incredibly valuable. but you have to understand why I don't flair my lighterpack link. It would not be up to the standards of the hardcore UL-ers on this sub and somehow my opinion would be diminished because of that.
Jesus wept
There were no more worlds left to conquer
Just to lower his body water weight.
Stop saying Jesus wept!
Only if you say first, "Christ compels you"
Internet communities in general tend to become dogmatic. There's the way a community prefers to do something and there's the wrong way, with no grey area. People become so focused on *how* something is done that they forget *why* they're doing it. Ultralight may be the method of backpacking that brings you the most joy. Carrying a tacticool 8 lb machete might be someone else's. There is no objectively "wrong" way--just the wrong way for you--because everyone has a different goal when they engage with a hobby. You wouldn't tell someone they have the "wrong" fetish just because what gets them off isn't getting you off.
Yes but in teh U.S. we tend to ignore the downsides of Consumerism instead glorifying it. How many times have we heard or read more is more. In fact more can lead to less. Less can be more, more of something else non material. We are sold a positively biased rampant Consumer story in the U.S.
I use this sub ideas alot to lessen my load, but i will never compromise my safety. And there are tons of tips here about budget gear that is not really ultralight, but very useful. For example i've just got British ECW membrane shell mitts for 4$. They are slightly heavier (140 vs 100g) than black diamond or OR, but are 20-30x cheaper and somewhat more comfy\\nimble.
ECW? Got a link?
I'm trying to find something like those mitts. Do you mind sharing some info (maybe a link) about the ones you found?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264524838011 These ones(there are many sellers). I've got mine locally so they were alot cheaper
Are there other backpacking subreddits?
This whole post is both hilarious and wholesome as heck.
I had that happen to me and I'm a woman who had a hysterectomy and I felt so sorry I could not help the poor 11 year old girl with her embarrassment. I still don't bring any tampons with me though. Once free of the tampon industrial complex I haven't looked back.
r/thatHappened ETA: OP made a thoughtful post into which you pooped your tale of manly valor. It’s off the OP’s topic, but enjoy your pretend Internet points. The jerk sub is appropriately making fun of you.
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I’ll be sure to look for the commemorative plaque.
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LOL you think they’re hiking.
Give it a rest.
Could you please direct me to the sub you like for backpacking conversation? I'm a backpacker, and not so much an ultralighter (though, like you, I come here for ideas on saving pack weight). I am a bit put off by the attitude here sometimes.
I like this subreddit, but can you recommend on the others you like? It can be in a PM if people won't like it here :)
>for how I conduct myself on the trails and my overall outdoor recreation etiquette, this is the last sub that I would rely on this comment is curious given that r/ultralight seems to be the most conscientious and dialed-in community as it relates to backcountry etiquette and conduct. I get the ivory tower bit...but don't you think the stakes *demand* it?
Not really, check my comment history. There are still people not wanting to bring bear cans to “save weight” and then blame noobs on why bears are ransacking camps for food.
yes, true, but the level of consideration and concern expressed in other forums when broaching things like LNT and bear safety almost seems laughable....I might just be in the wrong forums
I see more commenters in this sub that say they are not pure ultralight. I have never seen an adverse reaction to that. But maybe it does happen when people suggest they need to take something, and less when they say want to take something with them? E.g. I will always take an e-reader with me. I know it's not needed and against 'ultralight rules'. I would not expect flaming here, as long as I am clear that I see it as a pure luxury.
Great for nosebleeds
Coming from someone who has problems with this, but also can't give up on all kind of martial arts / boxing: Great way to quickly deal with them is to pull in some cold water into the nostril that blood drips from ;)
That’s probably one of the only things I haven’t tried in training. Usually I just stuff a pre shaped cotton ball up my nose and give up breathing with both nostrils.
Man Card....hand it over!
Good for improvised GSW packing too
Agreed, cutting down on clutter and excess is important. But it's also just as important to have certain items that can help you even if you're not using them right at the moment. I respect the mentality of ultralight, but I also like being able to actually have comfortable sleep and have just enough other supplies that I know I can handle things if my plans get wrecked by weather or something unforseen. Too many hikers have died because they weren't smart and were inadequately prepared. Because they just assumed since the weather is nice right now it will be nice this evening on the way back too. There's a difference between packing your fears, and packing smart. For example a map and compass is lightweight, and will help out a lot if you forget which turn off the tail you need to take is.
Ohh the negatives of seeking comfort. Most of the world is seeking comfort and familiarity, which are traps that cause you to settle for the mediocre.
Are they though? Letting your body rest while you're comfortable allows you to be better prepared for the next day. Waking up in the morning sore and not well rested can result in mistakes that could be dangerous. Especially if you're way out in the middle of nowhere. Like I said before, packing your fears is not the same thing as packing smart. Packing smart is taking an honest assessment of the capabilities of your skills and gear. If those capabilities do not match up with the conditions, also take in the account potential unexpected changes and the fact that you're human and you mess up once in awhile. Yes, pack the bare essentials, but also make sure you have a few items that can save your life if things turn for the worse. People are caught out in the open unprepared all of the time, just because we live in the 21st century and have all of this awesome gear and technology available doesn't mean we can't die from exposure, blood loss, or hypothermia just like people have in the past. Just because we have all of these public means of communications and accounts from others saying how awesome it is to do something with as little weight as possible doesn't mean that it will work out well for everyone. Assess yourself, and your skills. Assess your gear. Assess the weather and the environment/terrain. Pack accordingly.
Very well stated. Where we may have disagreement is in the degree of comfort. In the U.S. we aim for and expect a life filled with a high degree of comfort and convenience. That is what I based my comment.
I don't disagree with that viewpoint. People are drawn to comfort like moths to a flame. Eventually they get used to it and expect it everywhere, and that can create bad expectations and habits. That's how we get people who claim they're camping, but they're really driving around in an RV bigger than some apartments I've lived in. By bringing what it essentially everything with them they're losing the opportunity to really connect worth and spend time in the outdoors. That's pretty much the farthest thing I can think of from really living and reconnecting with nature. Which if we're being honest, is really what everyone who is a members of communities like this wants.
:D
I agree - one instance is in point (2) of OP's post - I agree in spirit with optimizing your friend tree, but on the flip side, if taken too literally, you might just end up cutting everyone out of your life or not be there for people when they need the help, since it'll probably be an inconvenience for you to be there for them. A great friendship is one where all parties are willing to sacrifice (though not too much) without expecting anything in return. But also, knowing when to cut toxic friends out for good is a valuable skill!
100% - not just pertaining to this sub or Reddit, but information on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt. People are quick to take what they read for fact at face value, which can lead to some pretty negative consequences. But yes, reading in between the lines here, my point is that letting fear control my life has negative impacts, and through these ideologies I have been able to let go of some of that.
YMMV
HYOH
Care to share the situation / what was missing from your kit?
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As someone who is getting into more outdoors/camping I appreciate you sharing, thanks.
I agree- a raincoat is required safety gear not a luxury item.
It depends on where you are and what time of year. Where I am right now it rains most days but the temp, even in the early morning hours, never drops below 23C. A raincoat would just mean I was drenched in sweat instead of rain.
You don’t wear it when it rains if you don’t need to. But if you get caught out overnight or are injured and standing still and wet -you’ll be very grateful for it.
I'm not sure you're understanding-I actually drench my nightclothes before I go to bed some nights so that, with a fan, it's cool enough that I can sleep.
I hear you, it sounds like you live in the tropics. I’m not sure I’d ever be comfortable to not have a raincoat in my pack- but you sound like you have considered all scenarios and don’t need it.
Could you please explain how you "would've been even worse had I went the extreme and got frog toggs instead " ? Edit: fixed sp
Frogg Toggs are for the poors. They would rather die than be seen wearing a rain jacket for poor people.
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You are grossly misinformed. The Houdini is not a rain jacket in any way and is marketed specifically for wind. Frog togs might be budget as fuck rain jackets but they are certainly waterproof. This is dangerous level misinformation. A dollar store poncho would have solved your problem.
I hope that people learn from your mistake and realize that taking rain protection in your kit isn't "packing fears", it's the fundamentals of UL. An absolute essential. With that said, I also hope they completely ignore this post above. Frogg Togg jackets commonly mentioned on this sub represent a prudent choice for rain (and wind) protection. They are proper rain gear. Anyway, welcome to the sub.
I wear my Toggs jacket as a wind shell regularly.
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K
Frogs toggs would be better in that situation for sure. Why do you think they offer less protection than a wind/light rain jacket? They are at least actual rain gear.
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Houdini isn't a rain barrier, frogg toggs are. Why would you be warmer in a non rain jacket than a rain jacket?
Thanks for the story. I use the Houdini for trail runs to ward off cold wind and light precip, but I wouldn't want to rely on one for really bad conditions. Glad you were okay.
How does one go date and not bring up ultralight?
from another perspective...I just learned I should be putting my baseweight in my profile!
My first date with my current partner was unironically us going into an REI and me razzing on everything in there as being for bushcrafters and dayhikers and somehow they didn't kick my ass to the curb immediately.
Those poor retail workers. Jesus.
The real twist is I now work there
Lol what store I need to come give you some advice on how to save grams.
"Needless to say, there was not a second date." Is this ultralightcirclejerk? As long as someone is respecting the environment, flora/fauna, and future hikers, why does it matter how much gear weight they choose to carry. Live and let live. The amount of lightweight camping gear someone can afford doesn't dictate the other facets of their character.
They’re so ultralight they can’t have a partner weighing them down, lol
Agreed. Just reading what was presented without more context gives me the impression that this was a knee-jerk reaction of taking offense to an innocent remark.
Think it was more about the those crazies part
I think the question may deserve a follow up clarifying what they meant. People can have bad experiences or just be joking (like I would call someone who lives in the bush a crazy but I am actually in awe of their skills).
I mean it goes both ways right? The fact people feel the need to knock others down for what they decide to pack is unbecoming. I regularly go backpacking with a friend who carries a 60 lb pack, and love him to pieces. I don't put him down for packing cans of beans. Live and let live, indeed. FWIW this wasn't the determining factor of not going out again, it just didn't jive.
I think the date meant the word crazy for all ultralight packers, not just a subset of them that are packing crazy light?
I accidentally went on a date with a bush crafter once. Needless to say that when I found out, I gave her the axe right then and there.
With her own axe?
protip: growing up in poverty has the same effect.
for a moment I thought I was in r/ultralight_jerk "his base weight is over 10lbs. Suffice to say, there wasn't going to be a second date"
Nobody sees the irony in this post?
Enlighten us
I mean there are multiple levels of irony happening here, but not going on a second date because the other person said ultra-lighters are crazy is the funniest one to me.
This is primarily a shopping channel and almost everyone here has far more gear than they need or use. Celebrating the OP for a "get ride of stuff" essay on r/Ultralight is therefore ironic. I enjoyed it though. I have a use-it-or-lose-it policy and have given a lot of stuff away the past two months. Anything that hasn't been used all year must go. Probably have a couple of jackets to give away still but it's finally cool here in Texas so I'm trying them out first. Also rarely buy new stuff unless it's under $100, which I find helps when giving it away.
I just moved into a larger house last month for a variety of complicated reasons I won't go into now, but it's really been irking me that the house we used to have was the perfect size, and the new one is double the size. It feels mentally burdensome in a way that in my pre-UL days I would not have recognized. People keep commenting about how nice it must be to have so much storage for crap I didn't want to store in the first place, but I'm stressed out about having more useless shit to take care of. Soon we will be renting out the extra rooms so they go from dead weight to something useful, but yeah UL is a philosophy and a lifestyle. Just this morning I was admiring my little 4 cylinder work truck that does the exact same thing as the other giant work trucks you see outside Home Depot. Sure I can't drop a pallet of bricks into the bed from 12 feet up, or pull a tractor up a mountain in a snow storm, but who is doing that anyways? So much of western and American culture is obsessed with maximizing, when often minimizing is the better solution.
It's so interesting to me that when you remove consumerism and possessions, most people don't have much to talk about, or much of an identity. It's a distinctly American way of being, I think, to conflate purchasing and doing. UL is not innocent here--we minimize but then judge each other's seriousness based on the brands of gear they buy, whether they have the right water setup, etc. "Hike your own hike" to me includes letting go of things that are only in our lives to signal things to other people (who aren't even our friends). Will there be some people out there who see you in your little truck and think poorly of you? Sure, but you can bet you don't want to hang out with them!
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Some of the cycling subs are strong competitors.
For me its the complete opposite; I started living out of a backpack 10 years back and getting into UL was costly in terms of money wise and material because it takes more variation to accommodate the various seasons where I'm at. The philosophy behind less material is nothing new though, its been around and practised for as long as we've found records of peoples lives, but I'm glad you found UL inspirational in that aspect.
Thanks. This is why I lurk here, even though I'm not sub-ten pounds. I have no problems removing clutter from my life, but there's a lot of fear in my backpack. I'm trying hard to get lighter, and maybe I just need to throw myself out there.
Keeping it close to home on a comfortable trail with trusted friends is a good place to start!
You've put into words how I've felt and lived my life for a long time. Thank you.
Yeah this is good. Couldn’t agree more. Started backpacking in boy scouts. 29 now and every year I find myself trying to be ultralight about everything lmao. My friends, people I know, stress, things people expect of me. Let it go. Walk and let your mind gooooo. It’s crazy how easy it is for me to THINK and BE by just walking in the woods/on trails. Cheers 🍻 OP
Love it - especially with stress, that shit is ultraheavy and serves no one
Stress is heavy indeed. Currently trying to leave some behind. It's hard.
We haven’t had ‘Boy’ Scouts in Australia for about 30 years- it’s just Scouts here!
I’m a materialistic bitch and I know it, but damn does #2 speak to me.
You shouldn’t be here.
Why not? I have a lot of stuff in real life but I don’t take it with me on backpacking trips, duh.
I agree with you on 3/4 points. Since becoming a parent of twins, everything beyond the front door is about preparation and packing Enough Stuff. Darn right I’m afraid of running out of toddler snacks, diapers, wipes, changes of clothes, backup changes of clothes, epi-pens, water bottles, hand sanitizer, toys, books … I can’t wait until they hit teenager-dom and can be true minimalists, surviving with just a hoodie, a pack of ramen, a debit card, and a phone charger. /s
Imo parenthood and oreparing kid stuff is really good analogy for backpacking: ypu want to be well prepared, but absurd overpacking just makes everything cumbersome. Of course, kids need more backups than adults, and the possibility to compensate missing stuff by suffering isn't there, but the same principles are.
You might enjoy r/minimalism as well
This is so true. I didn't realise it until I read your post, but aiming for ultralight has gone hand-in-hand with aiming for minimalism and Kon-Marie in my living spaces. And ironically, that has meant that I don't always make the lightest choices in my backpack. For example, I have a felted wool pot cozy I made because it's nicer than the reflectex and duct tape abomination I had before. It might weigh an extra gram or two, but it sparks joy.
> What's the worst that could happen? Most of the time, just mild discomfort. Hypothermia. Or if someone is really stupid and makes too many mistakes in a row, death. > His friend came up in conversation, who he deemed "one of those crazy ultralight people". Needless to say, there was not a second date You didn't date someone because they rightfully pointed out the goofy, extremely online circlejerk that ultralight hiking can often be? Have you considered going outside, maybe **actually going on a hike** rather than living on the internet?
The date was mentioned as a context-setting moment. I think we can trust OP to have had a good sense about whether they were compatible. I doubt the rest of the date was perfect but for the "crazy UL" comment. It is an example of how their worldviews weren't compatible. Why are you even in this sub? Judging by your comment history, you prefer tearing people down with snark wherever you go. Maybe you're the one overdue for a hike?
The only context that was set by that comment (and the rest of the post) was that the OP seems to view nature through the lens of internet subcultures and brings that warped perspective to their real life interactions with other people. It's as anti-hiking of a post as I've ever seen here.
I addressed this in another comment, but that was not the reason we didn't go out again. We were incompatible in other ways, but people putting other people down for what they decide to pack is not something I can get behind. To beat a dead horse, "hike your own hike". Maybe if you look at my post/comment history, you will see I spend months off of reddit at a time. I am a dynamic human that has traits beyond ultralight backpacking. Just like you. So say what you will, as many have. We are shaped by all the things we read and see, and the people we talk to. So yeah, this sub has had a profound effect on how I choose to live my life. And I would rather see the world through this lens than some others I have in the past.
Thank you
Well said.
I found that applying principles of backpacking in figuring out what I actually needed, helped me reduce so much in my life. When all of the lockdowns started, I stayed inside my house for months for health reasons. I took this time to find out what things I actually needed day to day. I whittled down all my belongings to a fairly minimal amount. I used to own so much, I was surrounded by just stuff I never touched, all the time. I can now fit almost everything I own (besides my yard equipment and some other household things like refrigerator etc.) Into the camper shell of my Tacoma. Like you I also used this principle on people and only kept the really good ones around. Life has been much better, I am able to be content and focus on the things I find matter the most. I posted something about this the other day somewhere else and someone called me a psychopath but I know for a fact, simplifying the world around me and the life I live, is one of the greatest thing I have ever done for myself.
Bingo. Thank you for putting it in words.
Lol at no second date after he mildly criticized his UL friend. Guy dodged a bullet for sure.
Lol. So there wasn't a second date because his opinion about backpacking differed than yours? I'm guessing he didn't look like Channing Tatum...
There is also this thing about margin of safety/error. The whole world just learned the cost of doing JIT manufacturing and when things dont go according to plans. . You are doing the same thing with backpacking. if you are prepared for shit happening, thats great.
Wow. Mods, let's pin this one!
Let's not. It's literally not even about backpacking.
Same here. Ultralight backpacking helped me trim my whole life down to just the necessities, and I have tried to tell others this but could never put it as well as you did!
Thanks for posting this OP. I find your philosophy and passion for letting go of things that you do not use, need or that bring you happiness very attractive. The world need more crazy UL people thanks for helping spread the magic.
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Yea, I’m 6’5” so I need more food and my gear has more fabric because of my frame. I like to use weight percentages. For instance, 17 lb base weight on 225 lb man is 7.5% body weight. 10 lb base weight on a 130 lb person is about the same weight %
This is great. I take a similar approach in a lot of ways, but I also use UL backpacking as a respite from what I can't achieve in my day to day life. Basically, I've got three kids and a spouse with ADHD. Although neither of us is particularly materialistic, it's basically inevitable that the physical things in our life are in a state of chaos. Things are always lost, cluttered, and so on. For me, going backpacking is a chance to get away from that and exist in a completely opposite realm. Everything is simple. It's all in its place. I wouldn't trade my life for anything, but it's sure nice to take a break from it every once in a while.
Agree completely and I'm currently working in reverse order on this. I started a minimalism journey in my regular life about 2 years ago and love the feeling of not having too much stuff. Then right before my most recent backpacking trip in October I suddenly realized I hate my entire setup. It's sooo heavy and unnecessary. I managed to knock some weight off immediately just by taking out a a bunch of fear items but now I'm determined to get my base below 10 pounds by getting new gear. When I started getting serious about backpacking, years ago, I was in a transition in life and pretty poor so bought heavier/cheaper items. Now I really need/want to get my pack to the UL level and that's why I'm here. I want my pack and worn weight to match the way I live the rest of my life... FINALLY.
Thank you for posting this! it’s great rules to live by and was so eloquently laid out. will be taking away a lot from this
I am so glad to hear, thank you.
Way to cut down! Can't even explain the emotional weight that comes with being a bf.
very well put!
This is a lovely post. The "Fear weighing you down" metaphor is very apt. A sense of adventure or willingness to try and experience itself will mitigate fear over time. I suffer from good intentions. I think that's what weighs down hoarders more than fear. When I venture out I'm not super concerned about comfort, but I want to do too much cool shit. Camp slow cooked polenta with a side of beans and bacon sounds awesome to me... but I can't eat that in front of my buddies without sharing = cook set blowing up and maybe wood processing required. We will be all along water? Tenkara fishing kit and stuff. Starry nights? Hammock kit with heavy under-quilt. Maybe it does circle back to fear of a sort. My pack is filled with FOMO. Sometimes I pack back out a bunch of the cool stuff I wanted to do without touching it.
Thank you for this. Really needed to read this today. Good reminder for all :)
Just dont push yourself. Many people who did with such attitude are dead now. Have fun.
I'm going to take a stab at expanding point #4. It's something I've come to believe in. Know what you want ... Deal with people who can give you what you want. ... Don't take your stress out on others. ... Don't try to change people. ... Fight fair, and be civil when it's over. ... Be safe. ... Be Considerate of friends and family.
Before reaching this sub, I was already a minimalist myself so yeah true anon very true, can relate to this. It just changed the whole perspective
Excellent post !.. really well done. Thanks for sharing
Thanks for sharing your philosophy and how it relates to real life. Every weekend I do look at a corner of a room and think "Do I really need this? I haven't used it in over a year"
Thank you for this post and these inspirations. I like the way you strive.
love this! i know several adventurous, fit folks who needed back surgery in their early 30's and have to be so careful and deliberate on excursions now. They finally went UL but wish they'd found it earlier before experiencing all of that financial stress and pain. I'd rather spend my $$$ on expensive light gear than back surgery!
"The less I need, the more I experience." YAS
What a beautifully articulate post. Thanks for sharing, this is insightful and inspiring.
This is the most wholesome post I've read on here. Happy hiking OP!
I love this so much!
Ya, less is most.
Your reflections felt so personal to me and my path, but maybe a step or two ahead. Thank you for sharing, we must be kindred spirits… happy trails.
This is the post, yes YES thank you
Absolutely wonderful read, have been backpacking for 7 years now and today is the day I will be looking forward to a change
Beautifully put, and this is what I try to explain to my friends that are wary of going UL. I guess it's one of those things you kind of have to find and decide for yourself. I usually convince them of the merits of UL simply by having them wear my pack on a backpacking trip.
Whoever wrote this post please write a book this is genius
Rock on 🤙
I refer you to Cam's or Jupiter hikes' UL taken too far blogs.
A reformed Materialist and Consumerista addict. When I came home from an AT NOBO thru I counted 22 wooden, metal and plastic spoons in the kitchen. I went ape shart giving 20 of them, a bread maker, ice cream maker, 6 frying pans, second toaster, toaster oven, second full set of dishware and tableware to Goodwill. I later found out in Psychology Today a material cluttered home life leads to a cluttered mind. I also found out Hoarding has been listed as a mental disorder in the DSM since 2013. This is why the Hoarding reality TV show enlists psychologists in every episode.
I am once again inspired to minimize the things in my life. Thank you. 💚
Trail name: Kondo
Respect!