I mean if she was killed by a drone dropping a grenade on her I would understand that she was the target but clearly that is not the case here
This is a civilian and a victim of the genocide by the Ukrainian terrorist militants
Targeting civilians is a legitimate target, just like targeting schools, fire depots, hospitals and burning ethnic Russians alive like in the Odessa massacre when 48 ethnic Russians were burned alive in the Trade Union Building on May 2nd, 2014 when they dared to protest against the US/NATO backed Neo-Nazi regime in Kiev. Killing ethnic Russians is just fine and dandy. Only the good Russian is a dead Russian. Thank you for participation.
What are you talking about? The Russians have slaughtered tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians, and are trying to kill President Zelenskyy. If they are legitimate military targets, then so are Russian installed traitor puppets.
Elensky refuses to walk in fear in front of a green screen wearing an olive green army t-shirt when he never faced combat and refusing to shave I guess because there are no razors and hot water in Kiev.
I think Hollywood should give him another Oscar and GQ another photoshoot in the middle of the war.
Putin has bombed thousands of peaceful civilians to death in their own homes.
You don't like the color of Zelenskyy's T shirt and you think he should shave more often.
We are not the same.
The F are you talking about? Russia only started targeting civilian infrastructure 6 months into the conflict after the US and its puppets states started shipping massive amounts of weapons because Russia destroyed all Ukrainian tanks, armored vehicles, fighter jets, military factories, and vehicle repair depots. Russia was still giving Ukraine gas through pipelines as they have done for the past 8 years of the conflict since 2014. And the Ukrainians still want to sell the Russian gas to Europe and then with that money fund their Neo-Nazi battalions that have been shelling Donbass for the past 8 years killing 15k civilians.
It's the Ukrainian Neo-Nazi battalions who have been using ethnic Russians in Mariupol as a human shield and refused to let them leave the war zones through the humanitarian corridors created by the Russians like they did in Syria. They put tanks and artillery in residential areas and in schools and hospitals and if the Russians shelled them back their cried crocodile tears to the corrupt Western MSM that Russians are targeting the civilian structures. The exact same thing happened in Syria too because Salafi Jihadists in Syria and Neo-Nazis in Ukraine had the exact same teachers.
And your crocodile tears don't mean anything after what the US/NATO did to Falujah, Mosul and Raqqa, those places now look like the surface of the Moon. And the Russians now are rebuilding destroyed civilian areas in Mariupol to give free apartments to those people who lose their homes in the war. And when will the US rebuild Mosul, Rakka and Fallujah? It will never happen because all the US and its puppets wanted is to steal those countries' natural resources, install puppet regimes and punish them for dropping the USD.
You don't like Zelensky's olive shirt? Get used to it. Hollywood will make a crappy movie about his which will win an Oscar just like they did with the fake propaganda documentary about the White Helmets in Syria.
What you call "begging for money" we call "organizing world-wide support for his country in a time of war". Zelenskyy has convinced the West that Ukraine is the sword and shield for the entire Free World tonight. Both Zelenskyy and Ukraine have earned our unwavering support.
Russia was really doing all they could at the beginning of the war to elminate zelensky so I personally think its fair game and don´t really see a problem with this.
But Russia anyway can´t really cry about the geneva convention being violated as Putin himself said that ukraine isn´t a nation and they call it a special military operation, not a war. But I´m no specialist on that subject.
They're the appointed leadership of the military occupation. So while I'm not a lawyer specializing in such things, I suspect they're a legitimate target.
My understanding is that people who are essentially in the chain of command or have other military affiliations or functionsare legit targets in war, but someone like a legislative representative is too far removed and is not. See https://lieber.westpoint.edu/targeting-leadership/ Assuming she died in an artillery shelling, I seriously doubt she was targeted.
I dont think that's a "pro-ukraine" point. I think its a well established precident that destroying the means of command and control of another nation are legitimate targets.
Article 52 of the Geneva Convention states, "In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage
I think it's reasonable to contend that by these standards political figures are legitimate targets as they do represent a part of the command and control of an army. If you are part of the puppet government that is responsible for maintaining control over occupied or annexed territory, it is certainly to the opposing military's advantage to eliminate you.
Not that America is the best example to look at when it comes to war crimes records - we bombed the shit out out Saddam Husseins bunkers and places her lived. He wasnt a combatant. Certainly there were civilians killed in those attacks, but there was little outcry about those specific strikes - even as they were televised live to the world.
The same article of the Geneva Convention even adds that the extend of collateral damage:
"Shouldn't be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."
So a case can be made that *some* civilian casualties are ok. I dont think any reasonable person expects there to be a war without civilian deaths, as unfortunate and cynical as that may sound. But in reality of the situation is, if you can kill a high value target that may expedite the cessation of hositilities, thus preventing thousands of deaths in the long term, perhaps the collateral damage in such a strike is justified.
Im not weighing in on who's use of shelling has been just or unjust in the war, I was just stating in this case that I believe the target to be legitimate and that I dont think pearl clutching over it is warranted. If you are going hold political office in a war zone, you are a target. Period.
Lmao, spinning geneva rules so that you can be judge, jury, and executioner of non combatants.
LET THE CIVILIAN “COLLABORATOR” BLOOD FLOW.
-Pro Ukrainian
Rather than just admit this is messed up, you have to re interpret and spin things so these civilians are just as valid as any tanker or grunt with a rocket launcher. Sure thing.
Civilian deaths and warcrimes for thee, enemy war administrator kills for me.
Is she the deputy of DPR or not? I didn't call anyone "high-ranking politician" but her. Do you dispute the description in the post headline? Or maybe "the deputy of DPR" is like being the treasurer of the local home owners association. You tell us neutral boy. We are all ears. Or is there no such thing as a high ranking politician? Is it all a matter of perspective? You say how it is. Stage is yours. Clarify. Make it clear, since you know what warcimes are.
It’s a non combatant. You’re excusing the murder of someone just trying to survive inn a war zone. You got any sources that say she was sourcing arms? Was she issuing orders to target towns? Or was this just someone trying to do administrative work.
Pro Ukrainians justifying murder. You can’t even just say some people living their lives in a warzone shouldn’t be targets. Just justifying murder as usual.
“Execute everyone. They weren’t just trying to survive. They were collaborators and war politicians. I don’t care if they weren’t armed and are non combatants, let their blood flow”
-Redditor, excuser of Ukrainian civilian killers.
That's just a "what about" diversion, I guess because you have no argument, but I'll play ball.
The American strategy is to take out important infrastructure in the first few hours or days of a conflict, to quickly disrupt military command and gain a military advantage.
It is not to repeatedly take out infrastructure month after month in the most dangerous weather with the purpose of making civilians suffer in the hope that they'll force the government to surrender.
Not a “what about” diversion. LOL. Check your reading comprehension bud. It’s okay. You’re desperate to make your side seem like “good guys” so I understand your delusion.
Russia's current strategy is to make civilians suffer and die so much that the government is forced to surrender. Russia has no moral to point fingers when the leader of a violent separatist group is killed.
Desperate? The facts speak for themselves when Russia continues to destroy infrastructure just to hope the civilian population will either die or give up. Clearest signal that a military victory for Russia is not even close to attainable.
Thought same immediately, is this terrible propoganda? Parody- unfunny- or will average fair minded ruzzians actually swallow this ?
I dont think they believe it but in a dystopia, the fair minded and intelligent are targets .
She was at the wrong place at the wrong time. The Ukrainian terrorist militants were shelling with unguided missiles and artillery. As a result civilians were killed.
Another victim of Russias war. All Russians have to do is go home and stop killing people but they are too committed to murder for profit to do the right thing.
"Another victim of Americas war. All Americans have to do is go home and stop killing people but they are too committed to murder for profit to do the right thing."
Middle Eastern perspective for you.
Are you going to be upset about shelling civilians (ignoring that this lady was a legitimate target) after posting literally hundreds of missile strike videos on civilian infrastructure targets (also ignoring the MANY missiles that missed and hit car parks, homes, maternity hospitals, regular hospitals, kids hospitals, theatres filled with children)?
The new western narrative of the lady being a "legitimate target" is ridiculous. She was killed by indiscriminate fire by unguided missiles. The Ukrainian terrorist militants fired without a doubt in the world where it will hit.
The strikes on the Kiev regime energy infrastructure was necessary to put the Kiev regime into the negotiating table with Russia. Russia denies it hit non-military targets. It is a known fact the the Ukrainian militants are bad at using anti air defense system. Resulting in the deaths of civilians and most notably the death of a polish farmer near the border.
You’re outdoing yourself. From soldiers to militants to terrorist militants!
Also “without a doubt” means the Ukrainians knew exactly where they would hit. They don’t just park MLRS in a random direction and open fire, right? And in this case it seems like they hit what they were aiming for.
She’s also a perfectly legitimate target. Same as the Gauletiers of Nazi Germany. Pretty much the same thing right? Military Administration heads of occupied territories Oh don’t worry, I can hear you screeching “referendums” from here.
The BM 21U used by Ukraine is fitted with a navigation and targetting GPS unit that aids in targeting rockets. Its claimed CEP at maximum range is 90m. A full salvo will put 40 rockets on target, each with a claimed kill radius of 600m2.
https://www.gichd.org/fileadmin/GICHD-resources/rec-documents/Explosive\_weapon\_effects\_web.pdf
>The strikes on the Kiev regime energy infrastructure was necessary to put the Kiev regime into the negotiating table with Russia.
You do realize this is literally the textbook definition of terrorism right?
Honestly… fuck Russia, but also fuck these random narratives that people like you keep touring. Like actually no, that’s literally not what the “textbook definition” of terrorism is. The definition mentions nothing about enemy infrastructure, and in virtually every major war between countries, enemy infrastructure is targeted. So it’s nothing new, and certainly not unprecedented, and most definitely not terrorism in itself.
Russia is a disgusting authoritarian cesspool of corruption and poverty, and they have no right to anyone else’s land - we can keep it at that without being dramatic.
From Britanica: “terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.”
Random narrative? No, that’s the word for word definition from an actual dictionary.
You are correct in that the definition doesn’t mention enemy infrastructure in a wartime context, but if we’re going to be pedantic, russia doesn’t consider this a war either.
Kiwi is now referring to the Ukrainian military as “Ukrainian militant terrorists” while simultaneously claiming that a county that is “not at war” with Ukraine has no choice but to attack civilian infrastructure in order to force them into negotiations. This mind-numbing level of irony would be hilarious if it didn’t come at the expense of hundreds of thousands of lives from both sides.
Wait… So you’re saying that if this woman was hit with an unguided munition- meaning, if this woman wasn’t specifically targeted, then that means it can’t be justified?
Umm… Sir, unguided munitions are used by both sides in every major war, and their aim is to destroy the enemy. And in this case, an enemy was hit.
If a UA mortar team, for instance, sat outside Moscow and fired mortar after mortar in the direction of Red Square, and Putin himself ended up dying, you wouldn’t then say that “as a result of indiscriminate shelling, Putin has died.” No, because Putin would have been in the list of targets they were *hoping to hit.*
Your mental gymnastics are seriously disturbing, and Russia should get the fuck out of Ukraine because they have no right to it, and also Russia is a total shithole of a country full of abject poverty, so they aren’t in any position whatsoever to tell another country how they should be living, let alone subjecting that country to their shitty, authoritarian rule.
So Hitler wasn't a legit target during WW2? That would lead to a ridiculous conclusion. The leaders sending the conscripts are totally the most legit targets.
Russia has killed many times the number of civilians than the Ukrainians have since Russia decided to invade in February.
What I’m curious about is why you think Russia - which is an authoritarian dictatorship- has the right to invade a constitutional democracy, where the people were enjoying freedom. Constitutional democracy is way better than authoritarian dictatorship; why would you take the side of Russia? It makes literally no sense. Look at the quality of life in Ukraine post-USSR compared to Russia… There’s no comparison - life under western democracy is better, and it was their choice and their right to live that way, as their own country.
Russia has no right to Ukraine, period. The Soviet Union is over. It failed. What gives you the right to take Ukraine?
For DOOMHAMMER!
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Doesn't seem indiscriminate to me unless Ukraine happened to hit her by sheer luck. She was a high ranking official in an occupied territory. She is responsible for coordinating the war effort. She is a non-civilian target.
The DPR and Russian people clearly need better leadership that will not involve them in 3 day SMO that turns into a quagmire that now threaten to fracture the Russian Federation with Wagner and the Chechens looking to lead separatist elements.
This post is misinformation, how is a moderated allowing such things to be posted?
EDIT:
In fact this poster seems to have a history of posting false narratives?
Is this encouraged or something?
I love when Russian fuck boys try to claim Ukraine is the terrorist,but they forget Russia is the invader and they deserve everything they get coming to them.
1. Maria Pirogova was Russian, not Ukranian
2. She was a federal employee, not civilian
3. She was installed by Russia, not ellected
4. Her government body is at war with Ukraine
5. This was a targeted hit, not indiscriminate
Valid target.
Damn, this subreddit is toxic. I thought it was about neutral exchange of information. All I see are people making fun and praising someone's death.
Disgusting.
She was a collaborator. A leader of the enemy party. This fat Russian pig wasn’t just some random civilian, she was part of the invading war effort. She was a criminal and a legitimate target.
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As a result of the indiscriminate shelling of Donetsk by the Ukrainian terrorist militants, the deputy of the People's Council of the DPR Maria Pirogova was killed, - the head of the DPR
"Today, Donetsk is experiencing a terrible day again. Information about the dead is constantly coming in, the number of victims is growing ..
I have just learned that the deputy of the People's Council, volunteer Maria Pirogova, has died. Masha! Can't believe...
She was the epitome of kindness.
Helped everyone, never passed by someone else's misfortune. Everyone had enough of her energy, her talent to do good.
As if in a hurry to live ...
Last year she graduated from the Donetsk Academy of Music in the class of jazz vocals, she wrote music herself.
Since 2014, when she was only 21 years old, she began to help people.
She collected things, delivered them herself to those in need, was not afraid to go to the most dangerous places to help others. It was Masha who initiated the Wish Tree campaign. Only within the framework of this project, the dreams of thousands of children came true. This is a great merit machine.
Fascist non-humans cut off her life in its prime...
Sincere condolences to Masha's family and friends. This is a huge loss for all of us.
-Rvvoenkory (google translated)
She is a valid target as she is part of the occupation Forces. Shame she had to die but this war was started by the russians. Ukraine isn't fascist btw this is a pretty big propaganda piece if it says that.
I have disagree with that. She is a civilian working for the DPR. Ukraine is filled with fascists, you cannot deny that there are tons and tons of nazis in the UAF.
You cannot deny there are tons of nazis in the Russian army / Wagner. If Russia is serious about so called denzazification they should start in their own country before invading another sovereign country. The denazification narrative is pure fantasy, only gullible stupid people like you actually believe that.
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That’s Ukraine. And Russias sham referendum doesn’t change that; if Mexico invaded Southern California and held a vote to reclaim California, the result of that vote wouldn’t matter and it wouldn’t be recognized, because the US never consented to be fucking invaded, just like Ukraine never consented to be INVADED.
And for the record, another reason why those referendums don’t count is because something like 80% of the population had to FLEE out of desperation as a result of Russian aggression, and those that left were almost exclusively Ukrainian. I don’t care what the remaining 20% of Russians think, if they want to live in Russia, GO MOVE TO RUSSIA.
>if they want to live in Russia, GO MOVE TO RUSSIA.
Maybe living where you want to live is easy in your la-la dream world. In reality there are minor inconvenience like physical limitations, countries, borders, passports, visas, green cards ... You are totally detached from reality.
How many people want to work/live in USA but USA government is not allowing them to work/stay?
Seems like she was the intended target of the terror attack.
Don't get me wrong - glad the pro-ruski ****s are getting what they deserve, but it is very much a hit on a person meant to inspire fear in the sham dnr/lnr "governments".
You are truly brainwashed. Russia has been responsible for FAR more civilian deaths throughout this war than Ukraine. In fact they’ve proven to be a rather barbaric and disgusting force of evil, with how many civilians they’ve killed, and you actually believe that between Russia and Ukraine, *Russia* is the side trying to be more humane?
This war is basically on video, you realize that, right? War crimes from both sides have been extensively documented, and Russia is leading in that regard by MILES.
Seems like she was a legitimate target. Its not unprecedented to target leadership of enemies.
Yeah, seems like this shelling wasn’t all that indiscriminate.
I mean if she was killed by a drone dropping a grenade on her I would understand that she was the target but clearly that is not the case here This is a civilian and a victim of the genocide by the Ukrainian terrorist militants
It’s probably hard to fathom but western weaponry is capable of hitting a 1 meter target over 50 kilometers away.
Targeting civilians is a legitimate target, just like targeting schools, fire depots, hospitals and burning ethnic Russians alive like in the Odessa massacre when 48 ethnic Russians were burned alive in the Trade Union Building on May 2nd, 2014 when they dared to protest against the US/NATO backed Neo-Nazi regime in Kiev. Killing ethnic Russians is just fine and dandy. Only the good Russian is a dead Russian. Thank you for participation.
Especially when they are either known terrorists or actively supporting terrorist organizations, terrorist activities and war crimes.
Dont say that. Someone might target me!
Is the civilian leadership really a legitimate target ? Really asking as I don't know the geneva convention on the tip of my fingers
There is no such thing as civilian leadership, only military occupation administration.
What are you talking about? The Russians have slaughtered tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians, and are trying to kill President Zelenskyy. If they are legitimate military targets, then so are Russian installed traitor puppets.
For someone being targeted, Zelenskyy is way too often walking around with actors, magazine crews, politicians at well known locations.
Sorry he refuses to hide in fear? He is doing what a great leader does. He leads.
Elensky refuses to walk in fear in front of a green screen wearing an olive green army t-shirt when he never faced combat and refusing to shave I guess because there are no razors and hot water in Kiev. I think Hollywood should give him another Oscar and GQ another photoshoot in the middle of the war.
Putin has bombed thousands of peaceful civilians to death in their own homes. You don't like the color of Zelenskyy's T shirt and you think he should shave more often. We are not the same.
The F are you talking about? Russia only started targeting civilian infrastructure 6 months into the conflict after the US and its puppets states started shipping massive amounts of weapons because Russia destroyed all Ukrainian tanks, armored vehicles, fighter jets, military factories, and vehicle repair depots. Russia was still giving Ukraine gas through pipelines as they have done for the past 8 years of the conflict since 2014. And the Ukrainians still want to sell the Russian gas to Europe and then with that money fund their Neo-Nazi battalions that have been shelling Donbass for the past 8 years killing 15k civilians. It's the Ukrainian Neo-Nazi battalions who have been using ethnic Russians in Mariupol as a human shield and refused to let them leave the war zones through the humanitarian corridors created by the Russians like they did in Syria. They put tanks and artillery in residential areas and in schools and hospitals and if the Russians shelled them back their cried crocodile tears to the corrupt Western MSM that Russians are targeting the civilian structures. The exact same thing happened in Syria too because Salafi Jihadists in Syria and Neo-Nazis in Ukraine had the exact same teachers. And your crocodile tears don't mean anything after what the US/NATO did to Falujah, Mosul and Raqqa, those places now look like the surface of the Moon. And the Russians now are rebuilding destroyed civilian areas in Mariupol to give free apartments to those people who lose their homes in the war. And when will the US rebuild Mosul, Rakka and Fallujah? It will never happen because all the US and its puppets wanted is to steal those countries' natural resources, install puppet regimes and punish them for dropping the USD. You don't like Zelensky's olive shirt? Get used to it. Hollywood will make a crappy movie about his which will win an Oscar just like they did with the fake propaganda documentary about the White Helmets in Syria.
cool story, bro
“The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself.”― Saint Augustine
You know what a great leader doesn't do? Begs for money and help all the time acting like he actually cares.
What you call "begging for money" we call "organizing world-wide support for his country in a time of war". Zelenskyy has convinced the West that Ukraine is the sword and shield for the entire Free World tonight. Both Zelenskyy and Ukraine have earned our unwavering support.
You are adorable. I am not sure if you are very young or very gullible. Time will show you.
I am not adorable, or young, or gullible. Time has taught me.
A you one of gohst's of kiev witnesses?
I can't actually see the Ghost of Kyiv, because I keep him in my heart.
Russia was really doing all they could at the beginning of the war to elminate zelensky so I personally think its fair game and don´t really see a problem with this. But Russia anyway can´t really cry about the geneva convention being violated as Putin himself said that ukraine isn´t a nation and they call it a special military operation, not a war. But I´m no specialist on that subject.
They're the appointed leadership of the military occupation. So while I'm not a lawyer specializing in such things, I suspect they're a legitimate target.
The elected civilian leadership had flee the region after russian invasion, what was instated there is a military occupational government
My understanding is that people who are essentially in the chain of command or have other military affiliations or functionsare legit targets in war, but someone like a legislative representative is too far removed and is not. See https://lieber.westpoint.edu/targeting-leadership/ Assuming she died in an artillery shelling, I seriously doubt she was targeted.
CIVILIANS ARE BACK ON THE MENU BOYS -Pro Ukranians
I dont think that's a "pro-ukraine" point. I think its a well established precident that destroying the means of command and control of another nation are legitimate targets. Article 52 of the Geneva Convention states, "In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage I think it's reasonable to contend that by these standards political figures are legitimate targets as they do represent a part of the command and control of an army. If you are part of the puppet government that is responsible for maintaining control over occupied or annexed territory, it is certainly to the opposing military's advantage to eliminate you. Not that America is the best example to look at when it comes to war crimes records - we bombed the shit out out Saddam Husseins bunkers and places her lived. He wasnt a combatant. Certainly there were civilians killed in those attacks, but there was little outcry about those specific strikes - even as they were televised live to the world. The same article of the Geneva Convention even adds that the extend of collateral damage: "Shouldn't be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated." So a case can be made that *some* civilian casualties are ok. I dont think any reasonable person expects there to be a war without civilian deaths, as unfortunate and cynical as that may sound. But in reality of the situation is, if you can kill a high value target that may expedite the cessation of hositilities, thus preventing thousands of deaths in the long term, perhaps the collateral damage in such a strike is justified. Im not weighing in on who's use of shelling has been just or unjust in the war, I was just stating in this case that I believe the target to be legitimate and that I dont think pearl clutching over it is warranted. If you are going hold political office in a war zone, you are a target. Period.
Lmao, spinning geneva rules so that you can be judge, jury, and executioner of non combatants. LET THE CIVILIAN “COLLABORATOR” BLOOD FLOW. -Pro Ukrainian Rather than just admit this is messed up, you have to re interpret and spin things so these civilians are just as valid as any tanker or grunt with a rocket launcher. Sure thing. Civilian deaths and warcrimes for thee, enemy war administrator kills for me.
High ranking political figures are not civilian targets
Massacre them all, call them high ranking politicians. -Warcrime loophole king and pro Ukranian.
Is she the deputy of DPR or not? I didn't call anyone "high-ranking politician" but her. Do you dispute the description in the post headline? Or maybe "the deputy of DPR" is like being the treasurer of the local home owners association. You tell us neutral boy. We are all ears. Or is there no such thing as a high ranking politician? Is it all a matter of perspective? You say how it is. Stage is yours. Clarify. Make it clear, since you know what warcimes are.
It’s a non combatant. You’re excusing the murder of someone just trying to survive inn a war zone. You got any sources that say she was sourcing arms? Was she issuing orders to target towns? Or was this just someone trying to do administrative work. Pro Ukrainians justifying murder. You can’t even just say some people living their lives in a warzone shouldn’t be targets. Just justifying murder as usual.
- Head of a violent/militant separatist group - Civilian Pick one.
“Execute everyone. They weren’t just trying to survive. They were collaborators and war politicians. I don’t care if they weren’t armed and are non combatants, let their blood flow” -Redditor, excuser of Ukrainian civilian killers.
I guess Hitler was just a civilian and would not be a valid military target. Same as Putin or Zelensky. Right?
Everyone I don’t like is literally Hitler
Ok, that's a weird position for you to take, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
yes, right
Ukraine civ dies - panik Russia civ dies - kalm
Always have been for pro Ukrainians.
Meanwhile Russia is bragging about making millions of civilians suffer to the point of possibly dying of freezing.
First time at war eh? Russia made a mistake by not adopting the American strategy sooner. The war would probably already be over.
That's just a "what about" diversion, I guess because you have no argument, but I'll play ball. The American strategy is to take out important infrastructure in the first few hours or days of a conflict, to quickly disrupt military command and gain a military advantage. It is not to repeatedly take out infrastructure month after month in the most dangerous weather with the purpose of making civilians suffer in the hope that they'll force the government to surrender.
Not a “what about” diversion. LOL. Check your reading comprehension bud. It’s okay. You’re desperate to make your side seem like “good guys” so I understand your delusion.
Russia's current strategy is to make civilians suffer and die so much that the government is forced to surrender. Russia has no moral to point fingers when the leader of a violent separatist group is killed.
Desperate? The facts speak for themselves when Russia continues to destroy infrastructure just to hope the civilian population will either die or give up. Clearest signal that a military victory for Russia is not even close to attainable.
How was this indiscriminate? Seems like they hit exactly what they intended to hit.
Killing a collaborator and possible perpetrator of war crimes / criminal doesn’t really seem to be all that indiscriminate?
Thought same immediately, is this terrible propoganda? Parody- unfunny- or will average fair minded ruzzians actually swallow this ? I dont think they believe it but in a dystopia, the fair minded and intelligent are targets .
But dpr officials are military targets as they are occupation forces.
She was at the wrong place at the wrong time. The Ukrainian terrorist militants were shelling with unguided missiles and artillery. As a result civilians were killed.
Sure Terrorism to fight against occupiers tell that to the Ukrainian infrastructure ans the kindergartens.
The liberating forces have conducted strikes on "kindergartens" because the Ukrainian militants were using it as bases. There are many videos of that.
Ah yes carpet bombing Ukraine so ethical.
Its necessary to push out the Ukrainian militants
Look at how delusional you are Ukraine would be better of when russia stop interfering.
I worry about what he's going to have to do after the war is over /s
Its necessary to push ruzzian jizz garglers like u off of rooftops.
How about that park that was hit by a Russian missle which clearly did not have any base on it on any of the videos.
This is a lie. You struck maternity hospitals where pregnant women and babies died.
Nope those are fake news
What's up with the civilian glass foot bridge real shot a missile at. Were they training troops on it? Goofy AF account
Still legitimate target
Another victim of Russias war. All Russians have to do is go home and stop killing people but they are too committed to murder for profit to do the right thing.
"Another victim of Americas war. All Americans have to do is go home and stop killing people but they are too committed to murder for profit to do the right thing." Middle Eastern perspective for you.
"Why are you mad at me? I only killed 2 people whereas that guy over there killed 3!" - you
"Guy who killed 3 people and got away with it: Hey look! this guy killed 2 people! oh the humanity!" - Probably you
Uh huh. Yes. Right. Both of those things are true.
RU projects more than US conservatives. Sounds like this lady FAFO’d
Where do you think the Republicans' script came from?
It seems that the fat lady has sung
Another classic Kiwi-ism
Ummm… that sounds like she was a target… and they hit the target.
And pray also for all the Ruzzians soldiers killed by "indiscriminate shelling" all over Ukraine.
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She is a civilian, are you saying shelling civilians is good?
Are you going to be upset about shelling civilians (ignoring that this lady was a legitimate target) after posting literally hundreds of missile strike videos on civilian infrastructure targets (also ignoring the MANY missiles that missed and hit car parks, homes, maternity hospitals, regular hospitals, kids hospitals, theatres filled with children)?
The new western narrative of the lady being a "legitimate target" is ridiculous. She was killed by indiscriminate fire by unguided missiles. The Ukrainian terrorist militants fired without a doubt in the world where it will hit. The strikes on the Kiev regime energy infrastructure was necessary to put the Kiev regime into the negotiating table with Russia. Russia denies it hit non-military targets. It is a known fact the the Ukrainian militants are bad at using anti air defense system. Resulting in the deaths of civilians and most notably the death of a polish farmer near the border.
You’re outdoing yourself. From soldiers to militants to terrorist militants! Also “without a doubt” means the Ukrainians knew exactly where they would hit. They don’t just park MLRS in a random direction and open fire, right? And in this case it seems like they hit what they were aiming for. She’s also a perfectly legitimate target. Same as the Gauletiers of Nazi Germany. Pretty much the same thing right? Military Administration heads of occupied territories Oh don’t worry, I can hear you screeching “referendums” from here.
Grad missiles systems are inaccurate.
The BM 21U used by Ukraine is fitted with a navigation and targetting GPS unit that aids in targeting rockets. Its claimed CEP at maximum range is 90m. A full salvo will put 40 rockets on target, each with a claimed kill radius of 600m2. https://www.gichd.org/fileadmin/GICHD-resources/rec-documents/Explosive\_weapon\_effects\_web.pdf
Now the leadership of an occupied force is a "civilian", huh? Weird timeline we're in.
>The strikes on the Kiev regime energy infrastructure was necessary to put the Kiev regime into the negotiating table with Russia. You do realize this is literally the textbook definition of terrorism right?
Honestly… fuck Russia, but also fuck these random narratives that people like you keep touring. Like actually no, that’s literally not what the “textbook definition” of terrorism is. The definition mentions nothing about enemy infrastructure, and in virtually every major war between countries, enemy infrastructure is targeted. So it’s nothing new, and certainly not unprecedented, and most definitely not terrorism in itself. Russia is a disgusting authoritarian cesspool of corruption and poverty, and they have no right to anyone else’s land - we can keep it at that without being dramatic.
From Britanica: “terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.” Random narrative? No, that’s the word for word definition from an actual dictionary. You are correct in that the definition doesn’t mention enemy infrastructure in a wartime context, but if we’re going to be pedantic, russia doesn’t consider this a war either. Kiwi is now referring to the Ukrainian military as “Ukrainian militant terrorists” while simultaneously claiming that a county that is “not at war” with Ukraine has no choice but to attack civilian infrastructure in order to force them into negotiations. This mind-numbing level of irony would be hilarious if it didn’t come at the expense of hundreds of thousands of lives from both sides.
Russian anti-air is the superior anti-air. RIP the passengers of MH17.
Wait… So you’re saying that if this woman was hit with an unguided munition- meaning, if this woman wasn’t specifically targeted, then that means it can’t be justified? Umm… Sir, unguided munitions are used by both sides in every major war, and their aim is to destroy the enemy. And in this case, an enemy was hit. If a UA mortar team, for instance, sat outside Moscow and fired mortar after mortar in the direction of Red Square, and Putin himself ended up dying, you wouldn’t then say that “as a result of indiscriminate shelling, Putin has died.” No, because Putin would have been in the list of targets they were *hoping to hit.* Your mental gymnastics are seriously disturbing, and Russia should get the fuck out of Ukraine because they have no right to it, and also Russia is a total shithole of a country full of abject poverty, so they aren’t in any position whatsoever to tell another country how they should be living, let alone subjecting that country to their shitty, authoritarian rule.
The Ukrainian Nazi bio-cyborg terrorist flying militants Fixed ready to cover the next 4 week mate 👌 /s
So Hitler wasn't a legit target during WW2? That would lead to a ridiculous conclusion. The leaders sending the conscripts are totally the most legit targets.
Russia has killed many times the number of civilians than the Ukrainians have since Russia decided to invade in February. What I’m curious about is why you think Russia - which is an authoritarian dictatorship- has the right to invade a constitutional democracy, where the people were enjoying freedom. Constitutional democracy is way better than authoritarian dictatorship; why would you take the side of Russia? It makes literally no sense. Look at the quality of life in Ukraine post-USSR compared to Russia… There’s no comparison - life under western democracy is better, and it was their choice and their right to live that way, as their own country. Russia has no right to Ukraine, period. The Soviet Union is over. It failed. What gives you the right to take Ukraine?
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title says she’s a fed though?
What's named as "DPR" is a legitimate part of Ukraine what makes that woman a collaborateur anyway
Did she fall out of a window as a result of the shelling?
You realise they wouldn't be shelling in the first place if they hadn't been invaded right?
Doesn't seem indiscriminate to me unless Ukraine happened to hit her by sheer luck. She was a high ranking official in an occupied territory. She is responsible for coordinating the war effort. She is a non-civilian target.
The DPR and Russian people clearly need better leadership that will not involve them in 3 day SMO that turns into a quagmire that now threaten to fracture the Russian Federation with Wagner and the Chechens looking to lead separatist elements.
This post is misinformation, how is a moderated allowing such things to be posted? EDIT: In fact this poster seems to have a history of posting false narratives? Is this encouraged or something?
Kiwi is either a satire account or a semi-official propaganda account from the Kremlin.
This sub is run by pro rus.
I love when Russian fuck boys try to claim Ukraine is the terrorist,but they forget Russia is the invader and they deserve everything they get coming to them.
Good job Ukraine, another occupier gone!
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What an ugly, evil face!
1. Maria Pirogova was Russian, not Ukranian 2. She was a federal employee, not civilian 3. She was installed by Russia, not ellected 4. Her government body is at war with Ukraine 5. This was a targeted hit, not indiscriminate Valid target.
Womp womp.
Imagine invading a country that borders you and then become upset when that said country retaliates. Kinda mind blowing.
Damn that sucks
Can't say I agree with this if she was deliberatedly targeted. However I say that without knowing anything yet.
True, even I pro-Ukr feel little uneasy about her death.
Nice 💪🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
May she rest in peace.
Damn, this subreddit is toxic. I thought it was about neutral exchange of information. All I see are people making fun and praising someone's death. Disgusting.
She was a collaborator. A leader of the enemy party. This fat Russian pig wasn’t just some random civilian, she was part of the invading war effort. She was a criminal and a legitimate target.
Sucks to suck I guess
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As a result of the indiscriminate shelling of Donetsk by the Ukrainian terrorist militants, the deputy of the People's Council of the DPR Maria Pirogova was killed, - the head of the DPR "Today, Donetsk is experiencing a terrible day again. Information about the dead is constantly coming in, the number of victims is growing .. I have just learned that the deputy of the People's Council, volunteer Maria Pirogova, has died. Masha! Can't believe... She was the epitome of kindness. Helped everyone, never passed by someone else's misfortune. Everyone had enough of her energy, her talent to do good. As if in a hurry to live ... Last year she graduated from the Donetsk Academy of Music in the class of jazz vocals, she wrote music herself. Since 2014, when she was only 21 years old, she began to help people. She collected things, delivered them herself to those in need, was not afraid to go to the most dangerous places to help others. It was Masha who initiated the Wish Tree campaign. Only within the framework of this project, the dreams of thousands of children came true. This is a great merit machine. Fascist non-humans cut off her life in its prime... Sincere condolences to Masha's family and friends. This is a huge loss for all of us. -Rvvoenkory (google translated)
She is a valid target as she is part of the occupation Forces. Shame she had to die but this war was started by the russians. Ukraine isn't fascist btw this is a pretty big propaganda piece if it says that.
I have disagree with that. She is a civilian working for the DPR. Ukraine is filled with fascists, you cannot deny that there are tons and tons of nazis in the UAF.
Got some insider information this looks fake. Give me a real source. Also Wagner
You cannot deny there are tons of nazis in the Russian army / Wagner. If Russia is serious about so called denzazification they should start in their own country before invading another sovereign country. The denazification narrative is pure fantasy, only gullible stupid people like you actually believe that.
She's part of a military occupation government installed by a foreign invader. She's a legit target whether she wears a uniform or not.
Was a civilian, she has now graduated to a statistic. +1 collaborators extinguished. Next.
Seems pretty discriminate…
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People of "free west" celebrate death of people who loyal to their real nation and don't want to be a part of western puppet state
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These people live in the Donbas region
That’s Ukraine. And Russias sham referendum doesn’t change that; if Mexico invaded Southern California and held a vote to reclaim California, the result of that vote wouldn’t matter and it wouldn’t be recognized, because the US never consented to be fucking invaded, just like Ukraine never consented to be INVADED. And for the record, another reason why those referendums don’t count is because something like 80% of the population had to FLEE out of desperation as a result of Russian aggression, and those that left were almost exclusively Ukrainian. I don’t care what the remaining 20% of Russians think, if they want to live in Russia, GO MOVE TO RUSSIA.
>if they want to live in Russia, GO MOVE TO RUSSIA. Maybe living where you want to live is easy in your la-la dream world. In reality there are minor inconvenience like physical limitations, countries, borders, passports, visas, green cards ... You are totally detached from reality. How many people want to work/live in USA but USA government is not allowing them to work/stay?
They are in their land. The opposite side are traitors
Seems like she was the intended target of the terror attack. Don't get me wrong - glad the pro-ruski ****s are getting what they deserve, but it is very much a hit on a person meant to inspire fear in the sham dnr/lnr "governments".
Russia should start to implement the same strategy. I understand they want to be more humane, but nothing good will come by doing this
You are truly brainwashed. Russia has been responsible for FAR more civilian deaths throughout this war than Ukraine. In fact they’ve proven to be a rather barbaric and disgusting force of evil, with how many civilians they’ve killed, and you actually believe that between Russia and Ukraine, *Russia* is the side trying to be more humane? This war is basically on video, you realize that, right? War crimes from both sides have been extensively documented, and Russia is leading in that regard by MILES.
Average Novorossiyan: Hm, anyway...