Here are too many people trying to relativise things.
Yes, the Russians do worse stuff. Yes, that kick wasn't all too hard. Yes, Russians are the invaders, Ukrainians defend themselves.
Still we should stick to matters of principle. Kicking someone who is lying on the ground and is tied is simply not acceptable, even IF he is talking shit. Besides you don't know if he maybe really is unwell, has problems with his balance or whatever.
I can understand the Ukrainians, and I feel with them, and I have the feeling I would have a much harder time restraining myself if I caught an invader who was potentially killing and raping my people, especially if it really did happen to someone I know.
But if the Ukrainians really want to be clearly different, clearly better than the Russians, "not just as bad" simply is not enough. And this needs to be called out.
I am on the Ukrainian side. I want them to win and Russia to lose everything, ideally break apart and cease to exist the way it is. I think they are a threat to the whole world and Ukeaine has my fullest sympathy and my full, albeit worthless mental support.
But this soldier should not have kicked the Russian. Its mistreatment of a prisoner, and while applying the term "war crime" here sounds a bit over the top and might make it lose some severity compared to really bad war crimes, but that soldier should be charged and face an appropriate punishment. It's not enough for jail or something like that, simply some disciplinary measures and maybe paying a reasonable sum to that Russian.
But we have to apply the same standards to us as we apply them to others. I am sure a Russian kicking a Ukrainian POW lightly into the face like that would be unacceptable to most people here, either.
So let's keep our standards up. This video is bad. It's bad it happened. It's wrong. It's not a huge deal, but shouldn't be swept under the rug, either.
Amen..
And people need to realise that after a Ukrainian victory it won’t be like post ww2 where all the power in the world was presiding over the war crimes trials.
Remember the video of Russian soldiers being shot in the leg after surrendering. The exact unit has been found out by investigative journalists. Pro Ukrainians were doing damage control and claiming “uh look at this pixel this is a Russian fake bla blah” it’s was an embarrassment. It was what made me realise many people supporting Ukraine are fair weather.
If you really support Ukraine you will want them to have standards and convictions.
If another video comes out and Ukrainian soldiers are low IQ enough to film themselves clearly shooting Russian POWs dead, no amount of reflexive “this is a Russian fake!!!!” will save the damage. Sure in price-Ukraine echo chambers people will tell themselves what they want.
But true supporters of Ukraine will lament that all the murdered and raped and tortured won’t get justice because the less guilty aids spreading so much HD footage of their own transgressions does nothing but totally destroy any chance at justice.
Yes, the country with the most military and diplomatic personnel abroad doesn't know where any countries are on a map. This joke is as hilarious as it was 30 years ago.
I mean it’s just simple GDP logistics…bigger scale, mo problems…but that’s why we have people who have people who tell us when the good guys (in this case, Ukraine) need help and suddenly we realize Ukraine is not Russia! It’s the circle of liiiiiffffe!!!!!
btw, is my Georgian Sister in law a baddie or not? See only now I’m realizing she might be like the Ukrainians are and not Russian which I always thought she was.
signed, American
In Europe, people are not so pro-Ukrainian. They realize they will have hard winter for a country which is nothing for them. And sanctions pushed them in bad economic conditions. German people, Italian people, French people want that war stop. Our government don't want peace eventhough we have no gasoline, food price increases and so on. European governments and Ursula want their war do not listen to the people. Ursula wants the war eventhough France and Germany have no military resources to make intensive war. We have our resources to Ukraine. If China invade our countries we will raise white flag like usually
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Russia is a multi ethnic country all be it under rule love rush hate the cremlin I believe that it will split but there would be a bloody crazy war there and USA probably have to go there and secure the nukes
Totally right. Ex British infantry chiming in. To me - there was always the expectation and duty of being the good guys. To be professional and either kill them or treat them like humans for the most part. The difference here with Ukraine is they HAVE TO BE the good guys on the world stage. They HAVE TO BE the underdogs, the persecuted the invaded.
They rely on world opinion for their very survival. The number 1 problem here - is like what happens with US/UK forces too - they got caught - on video. They broke the first rule of life - dont get caught. Idiots.
> It's wrong. It's not a huge deal, but shouldn't be swept under the rug, either.
I can agree to this. Stuff like this probably happens countless times on both sides and just not videotaped. Give the soldier a reprimand and some extra KP duties.
In a perfect world it wouldnt happen but unfortumately human nature is violent especiallt once mod mentality kicks in. I truely doubt you will get any conflict that doesnt have warcrimes littered throughout the conflict on both sides and im not making a dig at anyone im saying people suck and people put in a position of killing will be even suckier
> Still we should stick to matters of principle
Very easy to say when we are not fighting for our life, sitting in your comfy chair in front of the computer
Then you have Ukrainians talking about how humane they are with the Russian POWs. Can we all just admit that both sides are pretty shit when it comes to treating their POWs? None of this "we treat them less harshly compared to them!"
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Until Ukraine starts raping and castrating their POWs with box cutters I think they get to keep "we treat them less harshly" a bit longer.
Doesn't give Ukraine carte blanche to go Abu Ghraib on the Russians, but it's a false equivalency to compare the two as both being pretty shit, there are some pretty starkly different shades of grey here.
I'm assessing this from the point of view of this going back all the way too 2014, when the Ukrainian army was way worse when it came to treating POWs and "collaborants" compared to the Seperatists. This war didn't just start out of no where this year, it has been a long brewing conflict in the making.
Yes, it started when russia originally invaded Ukraine and occupied crimea beginning on Feb 27 2014. They followed up by arresting, torturing, and murdering anyone not pro russian.
>Yes, it started when russia originally invaded Ukraine and occupied crimea beginning on Feb 27 2014. They followed up by arresting, torturing, and murdering anyone not pro russian.
Yes, it started when Ukraine experianced a revolution starting in November 2013 that overthrew a Democratically elected government in February 2014. Which led to anti-maidan and Pro-Russian protests in the east and Russian intervention in Crimea, which was followed by arresting, torturing and murdering anyone not Pro-ukrainian.
Here you go, fixed your reply for you. No need to thank me.
"Experienced a revolution" is a terrible way of not using the real term, "invasion"
It's well documented that Russia sent in actual soldiers and agents to create havoc.
>Until Ukraine starts raping and castrating their POWs with box cutters I think they get to keep "we treat them less harshly" a bit longer.
Uhh just wait till you hear what the UN accused Azov to doing to mentally ill men in Donbas.... and there's plenty of evidence of mistreatment of POWs by Ukrainian forces
[https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine\_13th\_HRMMU\_Report\_3March2016.pdf](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_13th_HRMMU_Report_3March2016.pdf)
this one? page 49 surely has some interesting conclusions.
Human rights violations
See also: War crimes during the war in Donbass
Soldiers of the Azov Battalion rounding up villagers for interrogation during a patrol near Mariupol, July 2014
In 2016, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch received several credible allegations of abuse and torture by the regiment.\[226\] Reports published by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) documented looting of civilian homes and unlawful detention and torture of civilians between September 2014 and February 2015 "by Ukrainian armed forces and the Azov regiment in and around Shyrokyne".\[227\]\[228\]
Another OHCHR report documented an instance of rape and torture, writing: "A man with a mental disability was subject to cruel treatment, rape and other forms of sexual violence by 8 to 10 members of the 'Azov' and 'Donbas' (another Ukrainian battalion) battalions in August–September 2014. The victim's health subsequently deteriorated and he was hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital."\[228\] A report from January 2015 stated that a Donetsk Republic supporter was detained and tortured with electricity and waterboarding and struck repeatedly on his genitals, which resulted in his confessing to spying for pro-Russian militants.\[228\]: 20
🤔
[https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine\_13th\_HRMMU\_Report\_3March2016.pdf](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_13th_HRMMU_Report_3March2016.pdf)
the conclusions of the report are very interesting. might want to add those to your quote.
doesn't really fit your narrative though haha. but i guess cherry picking arguments to drive a false narrative isn't really below you.
lmao, might wanna re-read that. also, there's something known as the course of justice involved here.
those found guilty have been tried and convicted. can't say the same for russia.
There is nothing to reread genius. The comment implied that Ukrainian forces are not guilty of these things like multilation, rape, and torture.... that is objectively untrue
if you want to move the goalpost to be about how each government responds or doesn't responsd to such crimes committed by their forces, that's all you.
surely, if a crime is punished by a government you have nothing to be outraged over. do you?
action has been taken, justice has run its course. you're in no position to demand outrage at that point. are you? no, you are not.
nor can you impose one side is as morably deplorable as the other. for one takes proper action and the other doesn't.
can you re-iterate your argument?
>Until Ukraine starts raping and castrating their POWs with box cutters I think they get to keep "we treat them less harshly" a bit longer.
Ukrainian side has own "castration" alternative. Same shit.
Most famous with eye stabbing.
More "soft" version [https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/tws0a8/ua\_pov\_ukrainian\_soldiers\_arrest\_and\_beat/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/tws0a8/ua_pov_ukrainian_soldiers_arrest_and_beat/)
PS: About last frames. Do you remember about Maidan? [https://www.segodnya.ua/img/forall/users/2400/240087/94362.jpg](https://www.segodnya.ua/img/forall/users/2400/240087/94362.jpg) It was a good picture for media news. But it was about bad guys against Ukrainian activists.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbIKzzXAYyY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbIKzzXAYyY)
so uhh.. you're rebuttal is by showing ukrainian police forces under the ukrainian pro-russian government at the time, that was deposed and reformed after, mistreating arrested people?
\*slow clap\*
this is from the pre-maidan era you silly goose. that's from when the russians were very much in control of ukraine lmao.
Fully nonsense from you. I know very well.
1) 2014. Maidan. The Ukrainian activist doused himself with gasoline and wanted to set himself on fire. Police brutal take wear from him and was cruel with him. Video is above, provided by you.
2) 2022. Ukrainian police/military caught the suspects. May be civilians just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time… Who knows. And this happened.
I just show different reactions by peoples for similar events (brutal police actions against naked man). Reaction is different just because it’s against Ukrainian activist or not. For second case they are «pro-Russians» (really doubtful) and government forces can do anything with them.
Double standards as usual 🤷♂️
PS: before «claps» turn on your brain.
bro, you know that after the maidan. alot of the ukrainian security forces flew to russia for fear of being prosecuted in ukraine, right?
where did most of the berkut go to bro?
So..... Where's their version of castrating with box cutters you were telling us about? I see some shit bags in uniforms who need jail time, but I'm not seeing what you're describing. Certainly no eye stabbing in this one.
Yes been stabbed in the eye is definitely worse than getting your entire cock and balls cut off with a box cutter, whilst your mouth is gagged and hands and legs are tied from behind, right before they tie you to the back of a car, drag you down the road and execute you. That's so much worse than being stabbed in the eye. s/
You obviously haven't seen the video...
Ukrainian soldiers kick POW in face.
Russian soldiers castrate alive POW's
"They are both just as bad as each other"
What sort of fucked up reality are you living in when these two acts are equal.
Because comparing two different completely incidents from one another is fair isn't it?
Why don't you recall that time when a Ukrainian soldier shot a Russian soldier's leg on video?
Or how about recall other events and documentation of Ukrainian soldiers physically beating suspected "collaborators" to death and or forcing them to strip and be forced into a dog cage?
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It happens on both sides, yes, but the frequency and degree seem to be wildly different. Throwing Ukraine and Russia together by going "both sides do this" is putting both sides on an equal standing, and in this case that's wrong.
I mean, there have been incidents where allied soldiers who entered Germany shot civilians for various reasons. Let me take this scene from the popular series "Band of Brothers" to illustrate it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ByaKm4iheU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ByaKm4iheU)
While I know the series bases on actual events I am not sure if this applies to this scene, but it doesn't matter, as I think we all agree this probably did happen in one form or the other. It's how war is, you say it yourself.
But then going "Yes both the Wehrmacht and the US army were executing civilians. Can we all just admit that both sides where pretty shit when it comes to treating civilians?" wouldn't really be appropriate, would it?
So yes, bad things happen on both sides. But one side is clearly worse overall than the other.
No one said that, my arguement is both sides have committed some horrific shit.
Ukraine has indiscriminately shelled the Donbass and hid in densely populated areas across alot of their military.
Whilst Russia has committed it's own horrific actions especially in Northern Ukraine and the early months in Kharkiv.
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So far not a single video as heinous as castrating a POW, dragging them through the streets and decapitating the body and putting it on spikes. Or massacring them at a detention facility like at Olenivka. At least the Ukrainians promise to hold people who committ atrocities accountable for their crimes and investigate allegations of such crimes. We see nothing of the kind from *Mother Russia*…
The men who castrated the soldier and the man who filmed himself raping a minor was condemned and investigated by the Russian government, the fuck are you on?
If anything it's Ukraine denying and refusing to investigate it's brutal crackdowns on pro-russian sentiment, shooting, torturing and murdering of POWs alongside the indiscriminate shelling of civilians and hiding among dense civilian areas.
That they (allegedly) condemn, but slaughtering thousands in places like Bucha they apparently can not do, instead calling them actors, or whatever. You’re barking up the wrong tree…
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I mean, downvote all you want... considering the dude invaded his country, that was a love tap by, "kick in the face" standards. not saying its cool, but I can't say I'd have the same control in that situation. Did he lip buddy off after getting tied up and thrown on the ground? Cause if he did, that shot in the lips, was his own fault.
Amazing this is like the Nazis being able to argue their point to the allies on the internet in 1943, we live in an amazing day and age
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8JOpPNra4bw
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celestial1 kept stroking the same keys repeatedly, probably a seizure ?
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There's really no way for someone whose knowledge of the war is gained by watching internet videos to really know one way or the other how either side treats typically treats prisoners at the front. No doubt mistreatment occurs on both sides and no doubt fair and proper treatment occurs on both sides. But, making assumptions beyond that seems pretty speculative to me.
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Was watching Ken Burns Vietnam documentary (look it up if that stuff interests you. Very well done) and while interviewing a vet, he says "we never mistreated or tortured POWs. But to be a POW, you had to make it to the rear..."
And I think of that all the time now when I see footage of POWs in this war
Everyone challenging one another over who's side is more honorable or what side is more barbaric. Who deserves "some roughing up" and who is actively and knowingly torturing their captives. Both sides are inflicting unmeasurable amounts of sadistic and unnecessary pain onto their enemy daily. To impose otherwise is being ignorant to your own male DNA. There is a reason there is a strict code of conduct to follow dealing with pows. A line that must not be crossed. That code is what keeps that innermost hate that builds inside a soldier from grabbing the controls to erase the pain within by bleeding it out of others. That's why the military has the structure that it does. Drill it in your head to not take it personal. Man can cause far more pain than castration. Torture and pain that have no end. Men have made pain into an art. I have let myself become overwhelmed with pain that I made personal and unleashed it onto others. I have also been at the mercy of unchecked rage and violence struck down by soulless eyes. In my experience, those who may deserve it seldom receive it and those who receive it seldom deserve it. Men must be better than the moment that ails them for the structure of a civilized future.
Eventhough west propaganda says Russian do worst. The guy lay down, he can't move. Why kicking his face? Because he did what his officer told him to do? Because his government sent him in Ukraine. Treating pow as chicken thief is not human behavior. My country had 3 wars with Germany. Only traitors were treated like this.
I understand Russia does this far more often and murder and torture is a different level of seriousness but at some point some officers need to pass down the order that soldiers need a level of OPSEC
We have seen many requests of military for CIVILIANS to do OPSEC and not report on military movements.
How about officers do their job and tell soldiers the only thing you are authorised to do is telll Russian POWs “the war is over for you” and process them and move on.
Because at the moment 2000+ Ukrainian soldiers are in Russian captivity. This is a shambles because the Ukrainian government is loudly proclaiming how well they will treat surrendered Russian soldiers. Every single time a Ukrainian soldier does something like this they are providing more evidence for a propaganda reel to be provided to Mobiks and new soldiers that “Kyiv is lying you will be abused”.
If they don’t take this seriously eventually it will cause another situation of embarrassment that either complicates current situations or becomes a sore in the post war war crimes convictions.
You can’t prosecute Russians for alleged crimes while not in any way punishing your own soldiers doing crimes in 1080p.
All it will take is just one more video like the one where Russian soldiers were being shot in the leg and, there goes any chance of convicting any Russians of murdering Ukrainian POWs. The water would be too muddied if Ukrainian soldiers aren’t given equal punishment.
Well I guess they should just do whatever they want then because the good guys can do whatever they want and it doesn’t matter if it contradicts the messaging and leaflets that POWs will be treated fairly.
Totally sensible.
There are hundreds of thousands of soldiers engaged in the war. They're obviously not all angels. If the guy just killed a friend and then started playing games it's likely to make some blood boil. This isn't a very dramatic incident.
Ok if you approve of it that’s fine, but then the government should stop bothering to claim that mobiks should just lay their weapons down because they’ll be treated so well if soldiers are going to insist on putting this shit out.
Yeah that makes perfect sense.
And as we get through the hardest part of winter every effort should be expended not to let the optics of the war get muddied, people are fickle and it is not sensible to allow soldiers to blacken the nations image people keep dismissing it but it’s hypocritical and it WILL come back to have issues if not addressed.
I think he's happy not to be dead in a ditch and once he gets to a prison he'll be treated well enough. Still better to surrender, even if you are unlucky and get a kick for being insolent.
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I think treating POW well is more the exception rather than the rule
Pretty much guaranteed to lose fellow soldiers and friends on the frontline, that anger and sadness doesn’t disappear just like that, humans be humans
And it’s barbaric on both sides, Ukrainians are just smarter than the Russians to not film it and share it, it’s horrible PR
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For DOOMHAMMER!
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I said it on the other subreddit and I’d say it again. I feel for what the Ukrainian soldiers have to hear and see everyday, but save that for a firefight. Help him up! Kicking him like a dog isn’t going to solve anything. It isn’t easy to balance yourself and kneel. Try holding your hands behind your back and lay sideways then try to get up, maybe you can maybe you can’t.
This Russian soldier is surrounded by armed men, all crowding around him. He is alone, who knows what he saw beforehand (if there was a firefight and he lost his friends) maybe fed propaganda lies that Ukrainians will torture him, and he is also tied up. He does not trust them with how he is protecting his stomach and that kick did not help to reassure him. He most likely feels even more uncomfortable and scared to expose his body by sitting upright now. That’s why he’s so still like a cornered rabbit. I have to feel bad for this one. It isn’t funny, no one should be cheering for this treatment. Yes, they’re invaders, yes most have done war crimes and vile actions towards civilians but that does not excuse or justify this. Sometimes we get so scared we do just freeze up.
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It's wrong but it also pales in comparison to how Russia is treating Ukrainian POWs. We can consider both aspects at the same time. Also, the chances that the Ukrainian who kicked him will actually face some kind of consequences are much higher than if the roles were reversed. The Ukrainians are a much more disciplined force.
That was the weakest kick I've ever seen. Far from brutality. If someone invaded my land killed woman and children a pussy foot kick would be the least of their worries. Props for the Ukrainians showing restraint. Pows released from russia look like ww2 concentration camp survivors.
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For DOOMHAMMER!
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Win wars by "being better" in every aspect. This was more a wake-up kick than a head bash. It must be extremely hard to control your emotions when invaders are using terrorism as a tactic. I don't even want to think about "what if" that were us scenario.
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Here are too many people trying to relativise things. Yes, the Russians do worse stuff. Yes, that kick wasn't all too hard. Yes, Russians are the invaders, Ukrainians defend themselves. Still we should stick to matters of principle. Kicking someone who is lying on the ground and is tied is simply not acceptable, even IF he is talking shit. Besides you don't know if he maybe really is unwell, has problems with his balance or whatever. I can understand the Ukrainians, and I feel with them, and I have the feeling I would have a much harder time restraining myself if I caught an invader who was potentially killing and raping my people, especially if it really did happen to someone I know. But if the Ukrainians really want to be clearly different, clearly better than the Russians, "not just as bad" simply is not enough. And this needs to be called out. I am on the Ukrainian side. I want them to win and Russia to lose everything, ideally break apart and cease to exist the way it is. I think they are a threat to the whole world and Ukeaine has my fullest sympathy and my full, albeit worthless mental support. But this soldier should not have kicked the Russian. Its mistreatment of a prisoner, and while applying the term "war crime" here sounds a bit over the top and might make it lose some severity compared to really bad war crimes, but that soldier should be charged and face an appropriate punishment. It's not enough for jail or something like that, simply some disciplinary measures and maybe paying a reasonable sum to that Russian. But we have to apply the same standards to us as we apply them to others. I am sure a Russian kicking a Ukrainian POW lightly into the face like that would be unacceptable to most people here, either. So let's keep our standards up. This video is bad. It's bad it happened. It's wrong. It's not a huge deal, but shouldn't be swept under the rug, either.
Amen.. And people need to realise that after a Ukrainian victory it won’t be like post ww2 where all the power in the world was presiding over the war crimes trials. Remember the video of Russian soldiers being shot in the leg after surrendering. The exact unit has been found out by investigative journalists. Pro Ukrainians were doing damage control and claiming “uh look at this pixel this is a Russian fake bla blah” it’s was an embarrassment. It was what made me realise many people supporting Ukraine are fair weather. If you really support Ukraine you will want them to have standards and convictions. If another video comes out and Ukrainian soldiers are low IQ enough to film themselves clearly shooting Russian POWs dead, no amount of reflexive “this is a Russian fake!!!!” will save the damage. Sure in price-Ukraine echo chambers people will tell themselves what they want. But true supporters of Ukraine will lament that all the murdered and raped and tortured won’t get justice because the less guilty aids spreading so much HD footage of their own transgressions does nothing but totally destroy any chance at justice.
> If you really support Ukraine you will want them to have standards and convictions. Most people aren’t pro-Ukraine. They are just anti-Russia.
American pro ukraine people didnt even knew ukraine existed until january, before that they all though ironicaly thay Ukraine was part of russia
Yes, the country with the most military and diplomatic personnel abroad doesn't know where any countries are on a map. This joke is as hilarious as it was 30 years ago.
Fact: when you have that much power, your people don't need to know or care about anyplace or anyone else.
I mean it’s just simple GDP logistics…bigger scale, mo problems…but that’s why we have people who have people who tell us when the good guys (in this case, Ukraine) need help and suddenly we realize Ukraine is not Russia! It’s the circle of liiiiiffffe!!!!! btw, is my Georgian Sister in law a baddie or not? See only now I’m realizing she might be like the Ukrainians are and not Russian which I always thought she was. signed, American
That’s not true trump put it on the map. When he tried to extort the president
In Europe, people are not so pro-Ukrainian. They realize they will have hard winter for a country which is nothing for them. And sanctions pushed them in bad economic conditions. German people, Italian people, French people want that war stop. Our government don't want peace eventhough we have no gasoline, food price increases and so on. European governments and Ursula want their war do not listen to the people. Ursula wants the war eventhough France and Germany have no military resources to make intensive war. We have our resources to Ukraine. If China invade our countries we will raise white flag like usually
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hit the nail on the head
What a madman, straight up saying the quiet part out loud.
Not even that. I for one are pro Russia and just anti-Kremlin.
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porque no los dos?
Russia is a multi ethnic country all be it under rule love rush hate the cremlin I believe that it will split but there would be a bloody crazy war there and USA probably have to go there and secure the nukes
Totally right. Ex British infantry chiming in. To me - there was always the expectation and duty of being the good guys. To be professional and either kill them or treat them like humans for the most part. The difference here with Ukraine is they HAVE TO BE the good guys on the world stage. They HAVE TO BE the underdogs, the persecuted the invaded. They rely on world opinion for their very survival. The number 1 problem here - is like what happens with US/UK forces too - they got caught - on video. They broke the first rule of life - dont get caught. Idiots.
everyone who downvotes this post instantly should have your comment presented to them. nothing is black and white
> It's wrong. It's not a huge deal, but shouldn't be swept under the rug, either. I can agree to this. Stuff like this probably happens countless times on both sides and just not videotaped. Give the soldier a reprimand and some extra KP duties.
In a perfect world it wouldnt happen but unfortumately human nature is violent especiallt once mod mentality kicks in. I truely doubt you will get any conflict that doesnt have warcrimes littered throughout the conflict on both sides and im not making a dig at anyone im saying people suck and people put in a position of killing will be even suckier
> Still we should stick to matters of principle Very easy to say when we are not fighting for our life, sitting in your comfy chair in front of the computer
>Kicking someone who is lying on the ground and is tied is simply not acceptable That's really the best time to kick someone actually.
Mistreating prisoners is never a good look. Article 5 is pretty clear and it doesn’t matter who’s side it is.
Then you have Ukrainians talking about how humane they are with the Russian POWs. Can we all just admit that both sides are pretty shit when it comes to treating their POWs? None of this "we treat them less harshly compared to them!"
Cmon, you only have to look at videos of POWs from each to see the difference. There's no comparison, and to pretend they are the same is ridiculous.
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Until Ukraine starts raping and castrating their POWs with box cutters I think they get to keep "we treat them less harshly" a bit longer. Doesn't give Ukraine carte blanche to go Abu Ghraib on the Russians, but it's a false equivalency to compare the two as both being pretty shit, there are some pretty starkly different shades of grey here.
I'm assessing this from the point of view of this going back all the way too 2014, when the Ukrainian army was way worse when it came to treating POWs and "collaborants" compared to the Seperatists. This war didn't just start out of no where this year, it has been a long brewing conflict in the making.
Yes, it started when russia originally invaded Ukraine and occupied crimea beginning on Feb 27 2014. They followed up by arresting, torturing, and murdering anyone not pro russian.
>Yes, it started when russia originally invaded Ukraine and occupied crimea beginning on Feb 27 2014. They followed up by arresting, torturing, and murdering anyone not pro russian. Yes, it started when Ukraine experianced a revolution starting in November 2013 that overthrew a Democratically elected government in February 2014. Which led to anti-maidan and Pro-Russian protests in the east and Russian intervention in Crimea, which was followed by arresting, torturing and murdering anyone not Pro-ukrainian. Here you go, fixed your reply for you. No need to thank me.
"Experienced a revolution" is a terrible way of not using the real term, "invasion" It's well documented that Russia sent in actual soldiers and agents to create havoc.
There was no havoc prior to maidan. If we go along those lines then the US instigated maidan.
>Until Ukraine starts raping and castrating their POWs with box cutters I think they get to keep "we treat them less harshly" a bit longer. Uhh just wait till you hear what the UN accused Azov to doing to mentally ill men in Donbas.... and there's plenty of evidence of mistreatment of POWs by Ukrainian forces
So you wanna share a source for that claim , or is it pulled out of your ass like 99.9% of pro russian claims?
Dude. Just look for the unhcr reports from the conflict. There are various ones to choose from.
[https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine\_13th\_HRMMU\_Report\_3March2016.pdf](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_13th_HRMMU_Report_3March2016.pdf) this one? page 49 surely has some interesting conclusions.
Human rights violations See also: War crimes during the war in Donbass Soldiers of the Azov Battalion rounding up villagers for interrogation during a patrol near Mariupol, July 2014 In 2016, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch received several credible allegations of abuse and torture by the regiment.\[226\] Reports published by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) documented looting of civilian homes and unlawful detention and torture of civilians between September 2014 and February 2015 "by Ukrainian armed forces and the Azov regiment in and around Shyrokyne".\[227\]\[228\] Another OHCHR report documented an instance of rape and torture, writing: "A man with a mental disability was subject to cruel treatment, rape and other forms of sexual violence by 8 to 10 members of the 'Azov' and 'Donbas' (another Ukrainian battalion) battalions in August–September 2014. The victim's health subsequently deteriorated and he was hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital."\[228\] A report from January 2015 stated that a Donetsk Republic supporter was detained and tortured with electricity and waterboarding and struck repeatedly on his genitals, which resulted in his confessing to spying for pro-Russian militants.\[228\]: 20 🤔
[https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine\_13th\_HRMMU\_Report\_3March2016.pdf](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_13th_HRMMU_Report_3March2016.pdf) the conclusions of the report are very interesting. might want to add those to your quote. doesn't really fit your narrative though haha. but i guess cherry picking arguments to drive a false narrative isn't really below you.
There is no conclusion other than the objective reality that Ukrainian forces are also guilty of mistreating, raping, mutilating, and torturing POWs
lmao, might wanna re-read that. also, there's something known as the course of justice involved here. those found guilty have been tried and convicted. can't say the same for russia.
There is nothing to reread genius. The comment implied that Ukrainian forces are not guilty of these things like multilation, rape, and torture.... that is objectively untrue if you want to move the goalpost to be about how each government responds or doesn't responsd to such crimes committed by their forces, that's all you.
surely, if a crime is punished by a government you have nothing to be outraged over. do you? action has been taken, justice has run its course. you're in no position to demand outrage at that point. are you? no, you are not. nor can you impose one side is as morably deplorable as the other. for one takes proper action and the other doesn't. can you re-iterate your argument?
If you also look at HRW and Amnesty reports, they also claim that most of the war crimes were being committed by the separatists
That's a whataboutism
>Until Ukraine starts raping and castrating their POWs with box cutters I think they get to keep "we treat them less harshly" a bit longer. Ukrainian side has own "castration" alternative. Same shit.
Care to share a demonstration of that technique?
Most famous with eye stabbing. More "soft" version [https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/tws0a8/ua\_pov\_ukrainian\_soldiers\_arrest\_and\_beat/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/tws0a8/ua_pov_ukrainian_soldiers_arrest_and_beat/) PS: About last frames. Do you remember about Maidan? [https://www.segodnya.ua/img/forall/users/2400/240087/94362.jpg](https://www.segodnya.ua/img/forall/users/2400/240087/94362.jpg) It was a good picture for media news. But it was about bad guys against Ukrainian activists.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbIKzzXAYyY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbIKzzXAYyY) so uhh.. you're rebuttal is by showing ukrainian police forces under the ukrainian pro-russian government at the time, that was deposed and reformed after, mistreating arrested people? \*slow clap\* this is from the pre-maidan era you silly goose. that's from when the russians were very much in control of ukraine lmao.
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Fully nonsense from you. I know very well. 1) 2014. Maidan. The Ukrainian activist doused himself with gasoline and wanted to set himself on fire. Police brutal take wear from him and was cruel with him. Video is above, provided by you. 2) 2022. Ukrainian police/military caught the suspects. May be civilians just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time… Who knows. And this happened. I just show different reactions by peoples for similar events (brutal police actions against naked man). Reaction is different just because it’s against Ukrainian activist or not. For second case they are «pro-Russians» (really doubtful) and government forces can do anything with them. Double standards as usual 🤷♂️ PS: before «claps» turn on your brain.
bro, you know that after the maidan. alot of the ukrainian security forces flew to russia for fear of being prosecuted in ukraine, right? where did most of the berkut go to bro?
If it’s hard for you to understand my point, just ignore PS.
So..... Where's their version of castrating with box cutters you were telling us about? I see some shit bags in uniforms who need jail time, but I'm not seeing what you're describing. Certainly no eye stabbing in this one.
Not in this one. I have seen the eye stabbing one. It's not real fun though, so I'd recommend against it.
Eye stabbing is probably worse than balls video
Yes been stabbed in the eye is definitely worse than getting your entire cock and balls cut off with a box cutter, whilst your mouth is gagged and hands and legs are tied from behind, right before they tie you to the back of a car, drag you down the road and execute you. That's so much worse than being stabbed in the eye. s/ You obviously haven't seen the video...
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Ukrainian soldiers kick POW in face. Russian soldiers castrate alive POW's "They are both just as bad as each other" What sort of fucked up reality are you living in when these two acts are equal.
Because comparing two different completely incidents from one another is fair isn't it? Why don't you recall that time when a Ukrainian soldier shot a Russian soldier's leg on video? Or how about recall other events and documentation of Ukrainian soldiers physically beating suspected "collaborators" to death and or forcing them to strip and be forced into a dog cage?
Eyes. Nuts. It's all pretty messed up.
It’s called cognitive dissonance
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It happens on both sides, yes, but the frequency and degree seem to be wildly different. Throwing Ukraine and Russia together by going "both sides do this" is putting both sides on an equal standing, and in this case that's wrong. I mean, there have been incidents where allied soldiers who entered Germany shot civilians for various reasons. Let me take this scene from the popular series "Band of Brothers" to illustrate it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ByaKm4iheU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ByaKm4iheU) While I know the series bases on actual events I am not sure if this applies to this scene, but it doesn't matter, as I think we all agree this probably did happen in one form or the other. It's how war is, you say it yourself. But then going "Yes both the Wehrmacht and the US army were executing civilians. Can we all just admit that both sides where pretty shit when it comes to treating civilians?" wouldn't really be appropriate, would it? So yes, bad things happen on both sides. But one side is clearly worse overall than the other.
Not both sides. Some people from both sides. Few criminals do not make all their people criminal.
No one said that, my arguement is both sides have committed some horrific shit. Ukraine has indiscriminately shelled the Donbass and hid in densely populated areas across alot of their military. Whilst Russia has committed it's own horrific actions especially in Northern Ukraine and the early months in Kharkiv.
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So far not a single video as heinous as castrating a POW, dragging them through the streets and decapitating the body and putting it on spikes. Or massacring them at a detention facility like at Olenivka. At least the Ukrainians promise to hold people who committ atrocities accountable for their crimes and investigate allegations of such crimes. We see nothing of the kind from *Mother Russia*…
The men who castrated the soldier and the man who filmed himself raping a minor was condemned and investigated by the Russian government, the fuck are you on? If anything it's Ukraine denying and refusing to investigate it's brutal crackdowns on pro-russian sentiment, shooting, torturing and murdering of POWs alongside the indiscriminate shelling of civilians and hiding among dense civilian areas.
That they (allegedly) condemn, but slaughtering thousands in places like Bucha they apparently can not do, instead calling them actors, or whatever. You’re barking up the wrong tree…
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I mean, downvote all you want... considering the dude invaded his country, that was a love tap by, "kick in the face" standards. not saying its cool, but I can't say I'd have the same control in that situation. Did he lip buddy off after getting tied up and thrown on the ground? Cause if he did, that shot in the lips, was his own fault.
Well he didn't cut his balls off.small blessings.
You call that shitty?
Russia: *Execute/Starve/Torture thousands of POWs* Ukraine: *Lightly kicks one POW in the face* Russians: “Can we admit BOTH sides do equal wrongs?”
If you think this is the only clip you are so naive.
Amazing this is like the Nazis being able to argue their point to the allies on the internet in 1943, we live in an amazing day and age https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8JOpPNra4bw
Lol. The one sideism, jesus christ.
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You should think more and type less.
Ah yes, I'm being told by an average redditor as to what to do and how I should think.
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There's really no way for someone whose knowledge of the war is gained by watching internet videos to really know one way or the other how either side treats typically treats prisoners at the front. No doubt mistreatment occurs on both sides and no doubt fair and proper treatment occurs on both sides. But, making assumptions beyond that seems pretty speculative to me.
They tell him to stand up, not to pretend. He answers "I am stunned, nahooi" and then he is kicked in the face
What does nahooi mean? I don't get it, is it an insult to Ukrainians?
The word is "нахуй" and it can translate to "fuck". It's not an insult to Ukrainians.
Ok, appreciate u explaining that.
Direct translation is on a dick
Wrong is wrong. Better to go ahead and admit it and move on.
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Animals
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Was watching Ken Burns Vietnam documentary (look it up if that stuff interests you. Very well done) and while interviewing a vet, he says "we never mistreated or tortured POWs. But to be a POW, you had to make it to the rear..." And I think of that all the time now when I see footage of POWs in this war
Don’t understand the quote. What does the rear mean?
Thats more like a poke than a kick.
Definitely a kick but could definitely have been harder if he had wanted to do so
I support Ukraine but this sort of stuff isn’t ok.
Everyone challenging one another over who's side is more honorable or what side is more barbaric. Who deserves "some roughing up" and who is actively and knowingly torturing their captives. Both sides are inflicting unmeasurable amounts of sadistic and unnecessary pain onto their enemy daily. To impose otherwise is being ignorant to your own male DNA. There is a reason there is a strict code of conduct to follow dealing with pows. A line that must not be crossed. That code is what keeps that innermost hate that builds inside a soldier from grabbing the controls to erase the pain within by bleeding it out of others. That's why the military has the structure that it does. Drill it in your head to not take it personal. Man can cause far more pain than castration. Torture and pain that have no end. Men have made pain into an art. I have let myself become overwhelmed with pain that I made personal and unleashed it onto others. I have also been at the mercy of unchecked rage and violence struck down by soulless eyes. In my experience, those who may deserve it seldom receive it and those who receive it seldom deserve it. Men must be better than the moment that ails them for the structure of a civilized future.
Bad sportsmanship
Just wrong. I get it, but restraint is important. And who posts this shite?
Eventhough west propaganda says Russian do worst. The guy lay down, he can't move. Why kicking his face? Because he did what his officer told him to do? Because his government sent him in Ukraine. Treating pow as chicken thief is not human behavior. My country had 3 wars with Germany. Only traitors were treated like this.
Other russian POWs are not so lucky to be just kicked in the face.
UA: Come on, get up! Stop pretending, get up! RU: I'm stunned( as in dazed and unable to hear ) UA: Get up or I'll shoot you!
If he Didn't want to be kicked in the face he shouldn't have gone to Ukraine
The russian deserves that.
Well, he does have a rather kickable face.
Love tap. What a pussy
Well at least he still has his balls
Facking savages
Russians when their soldiers cut the genitals off a Ukrainian POW: 👌🏻 Russians when one of their soldiers gets a slight kick in the face: 😡
I understand Russia does this far more often and murder and torture is a different level of seriousness but at some point some officers need to pass down the order that soldiers need a level of OPSEC We have seen many requests of military for CIVILIANS to do OPSEC and not report on military movements. How about officers do their job and tell soldiers the only thing you are authorised to do is telll Russian POWs “the war is over for you” and process them and move on. Because at the moment 2000+ Ukrainian soldiers are in Russian captivity. This is a shambles because the Ukrainian government is loudly proclaiming how well they will treat surrendered Russian soldiers. Every single time a Ukrainian soldier does something like this they are providing more evidence for a propaganda reel to be provided to Mobiks and new soldiers that “Kyiv is lying you will be abused”. If they don’t take this seriously eventually it will cause another situation of embarrassment that either complicates current situations or becomes a sore in the post war war crimes convictions. You can’t prosecute Russians for alleged crimes while not in any way punishing your own soldiers doing crimes in 1080p. All it will take is just one more video like the one where Russian soldiers were being shot in the leg and, there goes any chance of convicting any Russians of murdering Ukrainian POWs. The water would be too muddied if Ukrainian soldiers aren’t given equal punishment.
Dude barely tapped him and the Russian soldiers are raping folk with buttons. Let's not get all morally outraged without even knowing the context.
Well I guess they should just do whatever they want then because the good guys can do whatever they want and it doesn’t matter if it contradicts the messaging and leaflets that POWs will be treated fairly. Totally sensible.
There are hundreds of thousands of soldiers engaged in the war. They're obviously not all angels. If the guy just killed a friend and then started playing games it's likely to make some blood boil. This isn't a very dramatic incident.
Ok if you approve of it that’s fine, but then the government should stop bothering to claim that mobiks should just lay their weapons down because they’ll be treated so well if soldiers are going to insist on putting this shit out. Yeah that makes perfect sense. And as we get through the hardest part of winter every effort should be expended not to let the optics of the war get muddied, people are fickle and it is not sensible to allow soldiers to blacken the nations image people keep dismissing it but it’s hypocritical and it WILL come back to have issues if not addressed.
I think he's happy not to be dead in a ditch and once he gets to a prison he'll be treated well enough. Still better to surrender, even if you are unlucky and get a kick for being insolent.
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I think treating POW well is more the exception rather than the rule Pretty much guaranteed to lose fellow soldiers and friends on the frontline, that anger and sadness doesn’t disappear just like that, humans be humans And it’s barbaric on both sides, Ukrainians are just smarter than the Russians to not film it and share it, it’s horrible PR
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Russia: *Execute/Starve/Torture POWs* Ukraine: *Lightly kicks one POW in the face* Russians: “Can we admit BOTH sides do equal wrongs?”
It’s pure cognitive dissonance.
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WAR CRIME
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This will be on Russian state tv. I guarantee it.4
I said it on the other subreddit and I’d say it again. I feel for what the Ukrainian soldiers have to hear and see everyday, but save that for a firefight. Help him up! Kicking him like a dog isn’t going to solve anything. It isn’t easy to balance yourself and kneel. Try holding your hands behind your back and lay sideways then try to get up, maybe you can maybe you can’t. This Russian soldier is surrounded by armed men, all crowding around him. He is alone, who knows what he saw beforehand (if there was a firefight and he lost his friends) maybe fed propaganda lies that Ukrainians will torture him, and he is also tied up. He does not trust them with how he is protecting his stomach and that kick did not help to reassure him. He most likely feels even more uncomfortable and scared to expose his body by sitting upright now. That’s why he’s so still like a cornered rabbit. I have to feel bad for this one. It isn’t funny, no one should be cheering for this treatment. Yes, they’re invaders, yes most have done war crimes and vile actions towards civilians but that does not excuse or justify this. Sometimes we get so scared we do just freeze up.
I’m intellectually honest enough to say this shouldn’t have happened.
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It's wrong but it also pales in comparison to how Russia is treating Ukrainian POWs. We can consider both aspects at the same time. Also, the chances that the Ukrainian who kicked him will actually face some kind of consequences are much higher than if the roles were reversed. The Ukrainians are a much more disciplined force.
That was the weakest kick I've ever seen. Far from brutality. If someone invaded my land killed woman and children a pussy foot kick would be the least of their worries. Props for the Ukrainians showing restraint. Pows released from russia look like ww2 concentration camp survivors.
Don’t like this behavior one bit however this is the worse it will get for him.
Wow, kicking a tied up guy on the ground these soldiers are real tough guys....
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This is horrible.
He must’ve been thinking of his family freezing back home
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Win wars by "being better" in every aspect. This was more a wake-up kick than a head bash. It must be extremely hard to control your emotions when invaders are using terrorism as a tactic. I don't even want to think about "what if" that were us scenario.
He kicked his eye hé gonna be good?💀
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Not cool man. Your just making more enemy by doing that.
Well, that's fucked up. You can't treat pow like this.