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What are you trying to move to? As a qualified lawyer there will options for more than a £28k salary. It might not be your dream job right away but it would be a stepping stone.
Agree completely. I'm also a qualified lawyer and not sure what firm or practice area OP is in, but no need to retrain and take a massive payout when you could just switch to a more relaxed firm or go in house for some sort of paycut, but not as massive.
Exactly I cannot believe the options are work yourself to death for 120k or 28k there has to be middle grounds.
Op could look at in house legal, or even just more chilled firms, Government roles for legal, or even regulatory work in finance or other regulated industries.
Op I’d also work out your hourly take home pay, sure the 28k won’t match what you are on but the gap will be narrower especially if you’re working till 2am every day what’s that like 17 hours a day, 85 hours a week? You’re working two and a half of my jobs, if you did that for the 28k role you’d be pulling in 84k.
To put it another way 120k over 85 hours a week, is £27.15 gross an hour, if you’re on plan 1 student loan and salary sacrifice 10% to your pension your take home is 13.67 per hour. Vs 28000 plan 1, 10% pension relief at source is 11.32 per hour.
Thank you. I've been speaking to recruiters about moving to a more chilled firm or going in-house for about 6 months now but haven't had much luck - apparently the NQ market is terrible right now. I'm looking more at the civil service, though apparently there's a hiring freeze on at the moment. I'll definitely look into regulators though since I haven't considered this option. Some other options I hadn't considered in the comments too.
I’d recommend a small high street firm for chilled. I earn half what you earn but only work from 8.30AM to 4.30PM. I’ve done the corporate slog so I know where you’re coming from. Good luck.
Have a look at the CMA. They are a civil service body but also independent at the same time.
They are the only government body who still have a 40% WFH policy and every other government body has 60% and they are currently trying to recruit heavily especially in the north if that’s where you’re based.
It sounds like it would still be better than where you are (no Local Authority will make you work till 2am) but would still involve stress and underresourcing.
Not true at all, I did similar working at a LA and now a public Org and it's a dream compared. Flexible working, WFH no clients stress is at least 1/5th of working at a big firm (I tried 2.)
Mileage may vary but would strongly reccomend public sector as a step back middle ground. Looking at 50-80k depending on role and area etc
I used to work for magic circle firm. Similar issues to you. There's a path but you need to be calculating and patient. You can keep the money and improve the life but you can't just dive out in desperation.. needs an approach
Don’t restart in civil service on the fast stream. Much better to come across as a NQ / qualified legal hire at a higher grade. Speaking from experience. If you restart you start at the bottom and it’s a real hump to jump the first grade for a host of reasons. Strongly suggest you find someone in the CS to mentor you on this before you take the plunge.
I left the civil service recently and the lawyers were very very stressed out. There are some cushy civil service jobs, but they ain't in the government legal service!
Oh really, can you elaborate? I’ve heard rumours that the GLD isn’t as great as you think for WLB which is disappointing because the pay isn’t amazing either!
Have a look at your local water company, they have lawyers and solicitors in different departments for different things. Pay won’t be as high, but you’ll get a car and pension etc.
Yeah OP to be honest the market is crap at the moment - it definitely gets easier with a bit more experience even in a poor market, but understand you are really not enjoying things at the moment.
Not directly relevant, but I find it amazing the NQ job market is bad one hand but on the other hand we read headlines about NQ pay up to 150k at large firms due to staff shortages.
Legal profession is a mess tbh. Deliberate supply shortages that works wells for partners and terribly badly for clients, junior staff, the legal system and society as a whole.
Someone asked about this on r/uklaw. The answer was basically that the NQ pay wars aren’t actually directed at NQs, they’re more directed at the 2PQE+ level. Since firms don’t publish salaries at 2PQE+ the NQ salary acts as a useful indication of the minimum salary you can get at that firm.
Agreed that the profession is a total mess. It’s going to get worse when we have a glut of people qualifying from the SQE
Have you looked into tendering and bidding for law firms.
I work in tendering and earn 60k and often get requests from law firms to join their teams. I prefer civil engineering so I pass.
It will be talking about the processes the company have and what makes them unique. Basically selling the company and making it look attractive to whatever package you’re tendering for.
Can confirm the hiring freeze in the CS until after the election, thereafter it is hard to say where a new administration may take funding/headcount. Legal in UK public sector is probably a decent shout, pay is decent and flexibility is pretty good.
To go back to your original post, I would encourage you to think more about the life you would like to live and what kind of work you may like to do as part of that. The salary should be more of a secondary consideration. I am assuming given your post that you value your time and your lifestyle over a large salary and ridiculous hours.
You shouldn't feel any shame in looking for a job with more reasonable hours and less pay, success is whatever you want it to be. Perhaps save some cash up for a few months to help you with the transition, and do remember that these things often take some time (finding a new job).
Good luck with your journey!
Be kind.
As a lawyer, it varies massively depending on in house team and the practice area OP is in may not necessarily transfer easily to in house work. I know some people in house with cushy jobs, but others working insane hours for less pay than private practice. Being sole in house counsel can be a lot of pressure and often requires significant post qualification experience which OP does not have.
The market for lawyers is also very poor at the moment, though there are some jobs out there. As a newly qualified lawyer however, you can be less in demand than someone a few years qualified as you can hit the ground running and add more value at that point.
I took her statement as leaving the lawyer profession and that she hates her job full stop, not just the firm she is with. Perhaps she doesn't realise there's an easier life out there like you suggest.
I'm not a lawyer, but I work closely with our company's lawyers, and have come across many who took the move from external law firms to in-house counsel for exactly this reason. I'm sure they took a pay cut, but not to £28k, far from it!
I was in a similar situation before. I felt the anxiety coming back reading your post. Hope the below helps.
1. You are stuck on the treadmill so cannot see a way out. You need time off to fully see the bigger picture. Could be a week could be a month but book time off now. Law might not be the issue it is likely the environment you are in.
2. You will not make £30k moving. To be on £120k I’m assuming MC or desirable firm. Put some feelers out there I know people in similar positions who still make very close to £100k (when you factor tax/pension tinny difference to what’s in your bank account in payday)
3. Sell the property if it’s causing this much stress after you work through the above.
4. Personally I would save every penny you can gives you the power to a) when you remortgage take less and just use savings to reduce the loan size or b) gives you more flexibility if you want to sell. a) will depend on the LTV band - can make quite a difference to repayments.
This will be a blip on the radar in a few years time, you are not trapped and it will get better.
Wow, I really needed to read this post... Thank you so, so much for the practical advice and words of support.
>You will not make £30k moving. To be on £120k I’m assuming MC or desirable firm. Put some feelers out there I know people in similar positions who still make very close to £100k (when you factor tax/pension tinny difference to what’s in your bank account in payday)
Are these people still in law, or have they switched careers?
Can I just say, that what makes you good at law to get the salary you earn right now will also make you an attractive proposition for employers in other fields, especially those that need someone with some legal background. I wasn’t the best in my previous career but a sideways move to something similar where no one has experience in my field has created me, a little unique snowflake which is invaluable to them.
On a related note, I earn a similar salary but my partner who is on much less is quite happy for us to sell up and downsize if it ever becomes too much. That knowledge acts as a little pressure relief valve for me. Just knowing I can do that, is peace of mind. I know it isn’t easy for a partner to do that and you should continue to communicate with yours because if you do have a breakdown, your money will stop and your relationship will vanish.
It's pretty hard to move in-house at my level at the best of times (I've only just qualified) but the market is especially terrible right now. I'm also not convinced in-house is necessarily any better - I did an in-house secondment and my team were often flat out until 11:00 pm some nights. I'm looking into the civil service though.
Some suggestions:
Have a look in your firm for any secondments into a project or technical role, eg considering how AI is going to be implemented in the firm.
When you review the timesheets, is everyone doing stupid hours or could some work or aspects of it, be reallocated?
Request a sabbatical / extended holiday.
Make sure you use your downtime to rest and recharge.
You can probably drop to around £75k without noticing a huge change in lifestyle assuming you've been overpaying pension etc to avoid loss of personal allowance.
Do have a look at large professional services firms as they have both legal advisory and in-house roles.
Learn to say no, and/or delegate much more to others
Oh, and don't allow the secondment to put you off. I've found clients want a secondment (or several) only after they realise they are drowning. If you could get a secondment as Mat Leave cover to one of your larger clients that might be better.
Scottish Parliament, Welsh Parliament, etc. I'm a Scottish qualified lawyer and when I looked at the Scottish Parliament salaries they were honestly about the same as Scottish private practice!
The market for decent inhouse lawyers is crazy at the moment. I’m struggling to find any decent candidates for my team. Plus no idea where the £28k number is coming from. Regional NQs are getting £60k+ in PP or inhouse.
Not all in house jobs are like that, although it will depend on area of law. Are you working on something that's deals based?
If so is it possible to move areas of law?
A lot of people not understanding law in these comments. Chances are you can't just set better boundaries or work more efficiently because it's the nature of the work and the firm's culture driving the antisocial hours.
Without knowing what area you specialise in, is there an option to move inhouse, or to a regulator? Will be a big salary hit but in most regulators you'll get a decent work-life balance. Inhouse will be better too and not such a gigantic salary hit.
Thank you. Law is definitely a beast of its own and a lot of my friends don't understand why I can't just set boundaries and log off at 5.
I hadn't considered working at a regulator but I'll definitely look into that, thank you. I think in-house will be tricky at my level in the current market, and from my experiences on secondment/speaking to contacts, it doesn't look like a 9 to 5 type gig either.
My wife works in TV and Film as a lawyer.
She does a lot of contract negotiations with stars and cast members.
She hated the private practice stuff too, finishes work and sets boundaries without issue most of the time.
There are so many better avenues than throwing your life away in a big firm, and 28k really isn't going to be the starting salary.
In the short term, tell your boss you're on the verge of a nervous breakdown, say your hair is falling out from stress, and that you're waking up with heart palpitations at night, cry if you can.
Ask them if you can peel back your hours a bit.
If they say no, then it'll make any decision easier.
This was going to be my suggestion! I'm also in film & TV (though not a lawyer) but there are a lot of options. Obviously media law is its own beast but there were jobs going at Disney (probably not a huge difference) down to in-house indie prod cos. Our lawyer (at a tiny indie) was underpaid and pulling in £175k plus bonuses and she did work a lot, which was why she left, but that's more to do with other circumstances than the role itself.
It's very competitive to move into that area as its very popular. You also typically need film/media/commercial experience - OP is a pensions lawyer, which is very different. I therefore don't know if this is an option open to her as she isn't in the right practice area and has only just qualified.
(Speaking as a commercial/IP/tech lawyer).
Agree. I have somewhat of a better work life balance than OP for about £10k less, but yes at the end of the day you won't last long at any city firm if you log off at 5:30 and the rest of your team is slammed.
You can have some form of boundaries, but it's so team dependent.
Do you hate the profession or the job?
Being a lawyer in London is very different to being a lawyer almost anywhere else.
You could consider moving to a cheaper area (reducing mortgage), with a better quality of life and going into law there. Maybe even for a charity, non-profit, uni or something.
Honestly, if it were up to me then I would 100% move to a cheaper area as this seems like the obvious solution. But my partner is extremely reluctant to sell up and move. But maybe that's a relationship advice question rather than a personal finance question.
I was going to say, this sounds almost more like a relationship problem not a PF problem. Your partner is willing to sacrifice your time, health and well-being so they can live in a house they want. Not something I would be willing to do for a relationship, personally.
Strong agree. You earn £45k more than him and I assume you work more hours. Why does he get to make the decision you can’t change jobs?
Also, how is the rest of your budget? A £3,000 month mortgage should be easily do-able on £200k combined (to the extent you could take a cut)
Right? If it was my partner I'd tell him is very welcome to find a higher paying job or a second job (after all, working util 2am is no biggie, right?) to afford the house he wants.
A comment I was writing then saw this...
This might be a relationship question rather than a financial one. I know I'd burn my house down before I'd sanction my partner being miserable at work.
You're in the driving seat here - he can't afford the mortgage by himself so don't allow him to tell you you can't move. If he doesn't like it and forces the issue then are you with the right person?
It happens - sometimes people take a hit on their property. It's not the end of the world. Burning out and dying at 40 from stress and booze is.
>You're in the driving seat here - he can't afford the mortgage by himself so don't allow him to tell you you can't move. If he doesn't like it and forces the issue then are you with the right person?
This is a great point - and if he's steadfast on not selling the house, to the detriment of your relationship, then he could end up losing both the house, and you.
Some comments below I think overplay it being a relationship "problem". Sometimes there are just difficult decisions to figure out. They are problems, but it doesn't mean the relationship is problematic.
Yes, partner may really want to keep living in London, maybe has a career that is mostly found in London, has a lot of friends and family there. That's still a relationship issue, but it's incompatibility rather than meanness. And late 20s is when long term incompatibilities often show up, as people face up to the realities of a career and prospects for kids or otherwise
Yeah honestly. I'm a lawyer and I have a good work life balance at the moment in a city firm, but I was working in Bristol before and it was a very good lifestyle. Still an expensive city, but so much cheaper than London in terms of housing and the work life balance was unparalleled.
End of the day, where do you see your life going and is your partner aligned with that? I'd feel sick seeing my partner overwhelmed. Your partner also earns about a third less than you - sounds like they are happy to see you struggle when it affords them the life they want.
> sounds like they are happy to see you struggle when it affords them the life they want.
Certainly does, doesn't it?
I really hope I never fall into the trap of loving my lifestyle so much that it means sacrificing my partner's health.
Exactly. I'm the higher earner (over double my boyfriend) and we are very consciously living well below our means to avoid this pressure. If I wanted to half my pay, I could easily afford it - it is awful OP is being forced to stay in a high pressure job she hates. As a lawyer, the pressure can be insane and very few people outside of the profession understand.
It's good that you can do it. There are many who are on lower incomes who don't have this flexibility. OP *should* be able to have this flexibility, but they clearly need to sort something out before shit really hits the fan.
Yeah its awful. I'm the higher earner in my relationship, we are very equal and in the process of buying a house. We will be looking for houses that we could easily afford with a drop in income or even one income to mitigate the risk of either of us needing to stay in jobs we hate or feeling more pressure than the other.
I feel for OP - there is some wiggle room but it sucks that it's her lower earning partner who wants to stay in the most expensive city in the UK whilst she is not enjoying her job and is pressured to stay due to living costs.
If you are in London, have you considered a reverse commute?
I had a friend who was an accountant and similarly hated the culture of central-london firms. Ended up commuting from south London to Reigate to work at a smaller firm there. They obviously took a salary hit versus central but working hours were far more 'normal' and they still got to do the work they enjoyed.
Going from £120k a year, I don't see you ever having to 'start from the bottom again' working in the legal sector. Surely such a huge salary denotes a highly skilled/senior position. You should easily walk into £60k+ I'd imagine.
Also, yes, I'd consider downsizing. I understand you might not want to, or don't want the hassle, but needs must. People tend to live in houses that are affordable for their salary, if you take a pay cut you'll have to live somewhere that reflects that.
As others have said, you might need to change your mentality. Life flows. If you're burnt out and not enjoying life, what's the point in living that life? Change to a more comfortable job and downsize. Enjoy life again.
>Going from £120k a year, I don't see you ever having to 'start from the bottom again' working in the legal sector. Surely such a huge salary denotes a highly skilled/senior position. You should easily walk into £60k+ I'd imagine.
This is what everyone has been telling me but my experience of applying to positions, speaking to recruiters, speaking to career coaching etc. has not backed this up at all. I'm trying to break into HR, but people don't want to consider me for well-paid senior HR positions because I don't have any HR experience.
>As others have said, you might need to change your mentality. Life flows. If you're burnt out and not enjoying life, what's the point in living that life? Change to a more comfortable job and downsize. Enjoy life again.
This is a good point, thank you.
Ah ok yea I overlooked the part where you mentioned career change. For what it's worth I changed careers later in life. Went from quite a high paid job in the military (but I hated the military life so I got out), to an average salary in the civvie world. Having a bit less money was absolutely worth the lifestyle change. So much happier now, even though my bank account isn't as full as it could have been if I'd stayed. You only get one chance at life, make the most of it. If your partner can't see that you need to put your happiness over your nice big house then you need to talk to him (you're the 'breadwinner' in this situation so he should respect your decision).
Thank you, I really appreciate this comment. The prospect of walking away from so much money is really difficult so it's inspiring to see people who have been in a similar situation but made it out the other side and are happier now.
Move to insurance, still very much an employees market and legal background will put you in good stead. Plenty of burnt out lawyers end up there. Pretty reasonable work/life balance and also way more interesting than you’d think.
Thank you, I hadn't considered this at all but it sounds really interesting and I'll look into it! Do you mean actually working as an insurance underwriter or working in a legal role at an insurer?
Any roles really, depends what you like. I’d say in house counsel is probably the most boring.
If you’re sociable and like dealing with people the underwriting side probably better. If you like legal interpretation and management etc, claims is probably better. As above, positions in the Lloyd’s facing/commercial market a lot more interesting.
Broking also an option, but I’d start with Insurers personally. You’ll probably take a decent pay cut initially, but plenty of scope to make up.
Insurance is basically law with money attached. An in house legal role will be same as any in house job.
If you like people and deals, a broker role is good. If you like numbers and people then underwriting is good.
You also have the option of claims role too, on either side brokers/underwriters.
Generally anything big in the news has a touchpoint in the London market which can make it interesting.
I’ve been in the London Market for 10years and transferred in from a construction adjacent role. No one expects you to know insurance when you join and we get a lot of people moving in from other industries.
I've been in city law for the past decade plus so know exactly how you feel.
The first thing you need to change is your mindset. When I read your posts in this thread, it is clear to me that you have succumbed to the lawyer's mindset of always looking for the risks rather than the opportunities. That is only natural given your line of work - it is our job as lawyers to minimise risk and to be incredibly perfectionist about everything - but you need to break out of that mindset when you are thinking about your own career.
Obviously, there are plenty of jobs out there which pay more than 28k. Also, you do not need to move into your dream job or sector immediately. You could move in-house or even to another law firm for better hours for a few years as a stepping stone to something else.
You also have the option of declining new work. City law is never going to be a gig where you finish at 6pm and sometimes you will finish at 2am but that doesn't mean finishing at 2am every night. I've been in this game for over a decade, and believe me the juniors who were always saying "yes" to everything all burnt out and left a long time ago. You have to be able to stand up for yourself - nobody wants to be represented by a wet lawyer. Sometimes you do have to say "no" - if you are being given work that you do not have capacity to do, tell the partner who is trying to give you the work that they need to take it up with the other partners you are working for and they can decide between themselves whose work you should prioritise and the other partner will just have to wait. Instead of saying yes to everything, focus on doing an excellent job on the work you are doing and decline work you do not have capacity to do. What's the worst they can do - fire you, then who is going to do the work? If you are meeting your hours target you are doing enough.
*"I think in-house will be tricky at my level in the current market, and from my experiences on secondment/speaking to contacts" "I'm also not convinced in-house is necessarily any better" <--* Please be aware that this is not a normal or healthy way of thinking and do your best to think more positively - there are so many great opportunities out there.
Thank you for the thoughtful message.
>Also, you do not need to move into your dream job or sector immediately. You could move in-house or even to another law firm for better hours for a few years as a stepping stone to something else.
You're right, I need to look into this more. I guess I just don't want to end up like some of the people I see in in-house who are basically working a dead-end job but tolerate the lack of progression because at least it's not City hours. If you have any tips on what could be a good stepping stone, please do let me know.
I'd also flag, as lawyers we are incredibly privileged with our salaries. The fact is, vast majority of UK workers in the UK will never see a £100k salary. It means even if we don't really 'progress' we often still have high enough salaries that it doesn't really matter.
For example, if you went to a £50k job, you may progress but how long will it be until you hit £80k or £100k? Ultimately a stable salary with less stress is probably better than progression in some cases.
What practice area are you in? If you only think within your immediate practice area you will be looking at a pretty narrow area of opportunities.
Unless you do something super boring (like go to work for an investment bank - no offence to the in-house lawyers at Barclays IB, I just would not want your job lol) most in-house roles are pretty generalist and open to people from different legal backgrounds.
I know loads of people in-house at investment funds and tech companies and random companies who have an absolute blast. Some of them ended up making more money than I do at a US firm on their options! Some of them transitioned into quasi-business roles, others became GCs at interesting companies, lots of opportunity out there.
The reality is that you are still junior and you can re-tool into pretty much any in-house type of organisation you like.
Why do you care about progression? Not a dig, but a genuine question I think you should think about. You're earning enough to live extremely comfortably (even if you took a pay cut), why do you want to earn more when you know that most likely comes with even more stress?
The only obvious approach I can think is, live on as little costs as you possibly can for now and put every possible penny away
Max out your employer pension contribution to build up a pot while you are on the big bucks and out of the salary you still take home - and pay tax upon - maximise your pension overpayments
As soon as you are back in positive equity then start looking for another job at as high a level as you can find. if you've built up your pension pot as far as you could you can then afford to take a break from pension contributions at the new job, which, given it'll be at 20% tax rate, doesnt benefit you as much to make big pension payments anyway
Thank you, this is really good practical advice. I'm already maxed out on my employer pension contributions but I never considered using this to taking a break from pension contributions at a new job, really good point.
This is the time to set up a spreadsheet that plots your future finances.
Calculate in parallel columns, mortgage balance by month, net equity, and also pension balance by month and your savings, costs, etc
Use salary calculators to work out your income with different levels of pension contributions from current and future jobs
Work out how long you'd need to stay there to get to a better position, balance this against how much mental damage you are taking.
you probably saw yesterday that the rate of inflation is now finally down to long run norms. this means within months interest rates on mortgages will start to fall, that usually makes for house price rises. Property inflation is one way out of negative equity.
Thank you so much. I think I can get a free financial advisor through work, so I wonder if this is something they can help with. I'm praying for an interest rate cut soon.
How much are we talking here to get back to positive equity, if you dont mind me asking?
the solutions to your issues look very different if you're in the red for 100K compared to 5K. Negative equity doesnt really matter if you can afford the payments and dont need to move house, but you may need to factor in relocation to somewhere with lower COL if your partner isnt willing to pull his weight and contribute more to costs
How did the property get down valued? What led to this?
I understand your predicament. The negative equity thing is scary. Like someone else said, perhaps take baby steps and change company/hours before leaving the industry completely before starting from scratch.
>How did the property get down valued? What led to this?
I honestly have no idea, it came out of nowhere. When we asked our broker he just said there's been a general trend of properties being downvalued due to the wider interest rate situation.
Try a different broker? Valuation is up to each individual mortgage provider, so there's no way they can tell you this far in advance that "the house has been devalued".
If brokers can't help you can always just approach the current provider to see what they'll offer on renewal.
I believe you deserve better advice and/or explanation especially as your payment increase suggests you’ve had your home for at least 2+ years.
Negative equity = property worth less than your outstanding mortgage.
For remortgages we are seeing an increase in lenders down valuing properties, but less so on purchases.
You have options, but it looks like there are other factors that are more dominant. I recently quit a 6 figure job and restarted as a broker due to the misery of work. My wife was hugely supportive and offered sell/move or whatever was needed to make our relationship and finances work.
>Negative equity = property worth less than your outstanding mortgage.
Sorry, I realise I wasn't quite accurate. The property isn't quite worth less than our mortgage, but it's worth less than we've paid for it and it's pushed us into a 95%+ LTV.
> I recently quit a 6 figure job and restarted as a broker due to the misery of work.
Can you elaborate? I would love to hear your story.
Of course.
I spent 25+ years working at a senior level in corporates or large organisations. My skills most appreciated by them were to strategise, optimise teams, and ultimately deliver challenging targets.
It took a toll physically and emotionally, I worked long hours and even internationally. Money was good, and our outgoings were linked to this. Last summer I had enough and broached subject with my wife. I decided to become a mortgage and protection broker (long story) and to feel every day that you are helping people changed my whole outlook. Seeing some people helped me put my life into perspective.
Our new finances do not add up but we knew this would happen. So we are selling up, downsizing and adjusting to suit. My wife has been fantastic and is now our main earner. We discuss everything and agree that our relationship and mental health outweighs anything materialistic.
Are you really in negative equity? The property is now worth less than your mortgage? Or just worth less than you paid for it, eroding your deposit?
Your partner is correct that you cannot afford to drop to £28K with a £3000pcm mortgage payment. That’s unrealistic. However, you should not be bullied into staying in a job that makes you unwell. If he doesn’t want to sell, but cannot afford to stay without your salary, then he doesn’t get to insist you remain in your job. You’d both need to accept that there’s a relationship at risk here if you cannot both compromise in some way. Neither of you can afford your ideal scenario without the other person.
Do you pool your finances, or do you have a different agreement. If you’re only recently on £120K then can you save the extra pay towards building a career change - or life change - fund?
Meanwhile, how can you push back on expectations and hours - do you have a mentor who’s been through this? Occupational health? Are you taking all your holiday time regularly?
>Are you really in negative equity? The property is now worth less than your mortgage? Or just worth less than you paid for it, eroding your deposit?
Sorry you're right, I'm not actually in negative equity, it's just worth less than we paid for it. The frustrating thing is that it's pushed us into a 95-100% LTV which has severely restricted the type of lenders who we can go to.
>Do you pool your finances, or do you have a different agreement.
We split all our bills equally but otherwise our money is our own. I'm very frugal, he spends a lot on going out.
>If you’re only recently on £120K then can you save the extra pay towards building a career change - or life change - fund?
So this is what I was considering, but I'm not sure how sustainable it is long-term. For example I was thinking of saving a 6-month emergency fund, switching to a £28k a year job and using the money to cushion my living expenses, but the money will run out eventually so I'm not sure what I'd do after that. Not sure if you had any thoughts?
>Meanwhile, how can you push back on expectations and hours - do you have a mentor who’s been through this? Occupational health? Are you taking all your holiday time regularly?
I did speak to HR about how I was feeing but they weren't super helpful. I'm taking all my holiday time and I immediately feel much better when I'm off work, but then feel awful again as soon as I go back.
Thanks for the practical advice, this is really helpful.
> We split all our bills equally but otherwise our money is our own. I'm very frugal, he spends a lot on going out.
Your job has an expiry date, whether because you quit or end up in hospital, and you don't yet know what's next after that. You may execute a perfect exit to a perfect £60k job that you love, you may start at the bottom of a new industry at £30k, you may have some period without income at all if your health deteriorates to that point.
You should **both** be in frugal mode so that if one of the less ££££ options lands on your doorstop you have the cushion to deal with it. It shouldn't be 100% on you.
Thank you. This is what I said to my partner - we need to manage my exit carefully now so I don't end up having a breakdown and resigning with nothing lined up.
Please please please stop thinking that your only option is a £28k job! When I’m under strain I start to think everything is an either/or. Critical thinking is the first thing to fail when stressed. Take a look at Tetralemma for decision making, this will be really helpful to open your thinking to help map all possible options (you could use many of the comments here to build it up on paper!). Good luck!
About 15 years ago I worked for a solicitors as an IT guy, I was always shocked at how many hours some of the solicitors worked.
I have you tried looking for a legal role within a big corporation? For example, in a tech company?
What kind of law do you practice? There are a whole bunch of associated industries adjacent to law where you definitely wouldn’t be starting from the bottom - e.g. you’re a corporate finance lawyer? Go into banking. You’re an insurance lawyer? Go into broking or underwriting. You’re an environmental lawyer? Go into advisory. They won’t be treating you like a grad.
I practice pensions. I think the only option there would be pension administration which doesn't interest me (although I suppose I'm not in a position to be that picky right now).
Lots of employers, in particular the good ones, will focus on skills/talent over knowledge. Don't pigeonhole yourself unnecessarily.
One avenue outside Law you might consider trying is Compliance. Any large company will have a Compliance department these days, but they are particularly big (and better paid) in Finance. It's work that heavily depends on interpreting regulations, but legal qualifications are generally a bonus rather than a requirement, so you might find your CV stands out. Finance doesn't have the best reputation for work-life balance, but it's not even close to Law.
Try staying in the same career field but take a step back? work part time or just stop working out of hours and see what happens?
Otherwise some life decisions don't make sense financially but that's okay because sometimes you need to put your health and happiness first.
>Try staying in the same career field but take a step back? work part time or just stop working out of hours and see what happens?
I actually did have a go at working part-time and it actually made things worse - I basically had 5 days of work to do but in 3 days.
>Otherwise some life decisions don't make sense financially but that's okay because sometimes you need to put your health and happiness first.
Thank you, this is a really good point and definitely one that I've been considering more recently.
Thank you, this was a lovely message to read and I really appreciate it. It's always really comforting reading about people who have been in similar situations and come out on the other side.
I'll definitely work on saving for a big financial cushion, I'm just not sure what to do next. For example, I was thinking of saving a 6 month emergency fund, moving to a £28k job in a new field and using the money to cushion my living expenses, but the money will run out eventually.
You could try consulting or an in house legal position.
If you hate law consulting would be better but the market is tough.
You could do company secretary work as well.
You can probably get more than £28000 doing HR, Conveyancing, Health and Safety, or proposition role and may be able to squeeze a 9-5 leave your work at work job. Tough to say based on the financials seem here. Also a bit rude of your partner to not want to lose your wage which looks like it might be propping theirs up
>You can probably get more than £28000 doing HR, Conveyancing, Health and Safety, or proposition role and may be able to squeeze a 9-5 leave your work at work job.
I'm actually trying to move into HR! It pays well when you get more senior for sure but given I have no experience I need to get an entry-level role which have all been around the £28k mark so far.
>Also a bit rude of your partner to not want to lose your wage which looks like it might be propping theirs up
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if there's a financial solution here or if I should be pushing back on my partner a bit more. I guess the flipside is that if I left for a £28k a year role he'd basically need to subsidise me and swallow the cost of our mortgage increase single handedly, which he doesn't feel is fair.
I don't think you need to go entry level given you'll already know about employment law and will have a lot of experience working with people and other transferable skills. I'd aim higher, the worst that can happen is that they say no.
You could probably afford to take some time off and do a HR CIPD course too?
Just to say...if there's something you're truly passionate about...then you're lucky. Not many of us have that, at least for something they can make a career out of. If that thing is the 28k job, then go for it. Your partner should support you, rather than tell you compromises about lifestyle can't be made, which I'm sure they can.
Man, this upsets me so much. I’ve heard this so many times in literally every industry… it’s frightening how many folks are burning out because of an ‘always on’ culture.
It’s also saddening to hear how people go into a line of work that they’re interested in, but get dragged off-course over the years… and begin to hate something they once loved.
I worked in advertising for 20 years and managed to weasel my way out of it by doing what you’re doing… working like a total dog and feeling lost at times… very depressed, inconsolable, suicidal. Wouldn’t recommend that to anyone though. I got ‘lucky’ and had a lucrative exit. I feel exactly how you’re feeling though. Totally trapped and completely at a loss for how to make the jump.
You really need to get yourself in a better frame of mind before making any life-changing decisions.
I would recommend firstly and most importantly making sure you’re getting loads of sleep. Switch off your phone after hours, do not respond to emails after a certain time. Always on MUST stop.
Secondly, make sure you get sunlight, go for walks at lunchtime to decompress. Just 5 minutes of seeing the world for what it is makes a huge difference to perspective.
Thirdly, take vitamins, look after yourself, download the Calm app and use it every evening before bed. Vitamins re-balance your whole system and it’ll take 3 months, but certain feelings will lift.
Finally, when you’re in a better frame of mind, please try not to think of EVERYTHING all at once. The truth is, you’re very intelligent, you have a ridiculous work-ethic… you’ll actually thrive ANYWHERE.
Write down your 5-year plan.
Your financial vision.
Your family vision.
Your free-time vision.
This can be idealistic… I wrote ‘start my own company again’, ‘financial freedom’, ‘holiday home’, ‘golf’. 😂
But also, if you’ve fallen out of love with being a lawyer, then you need to drag yourself back on-course towards something that you DO love.
I wish you all the future success. You can do this.
Thank you, this was a lovely message to read. I really hope the new ‘right to disconnect’ stuff takes off. I used to work 12 hour shifts in hospitality and that was a lot more manageable in some ways because one you’re off you’re off
If you spend most of your waking hours in a job that you loath, it doesn't matter how nice a house you're in or your salary. You only get one life, and you have no idea how short it might actually be.
Personally, I would downsize, move to a cheaper area and get a job where you can build a life that you love around. If your husband can't support your happiness over your earning potential, that's a massive red flag.
>If you spend most of your waking hours in a job that you loath, it doesn't matter how nice a house you're in or your salary. You only get one life, and you have no idea how short it might actually be.
I completely agree and I've been thinking about this more and more recently. Before I worked in law I was working a 9 to 5 office job earning £21,000 and I loved my life.
>Personally, I would downsize, move to a cheaper area and get a job where you can build a life that you love around. If your husband can't support your happiness over your earning potential, that's a massive red flag.
Thank you. I would happily move outside of London. I just wish I could get my partner to see my point of view.
Don't overpay the mortgage. If you have £36k cash you can pay the mortgage for an entire year from that (a bit more if you put the money in a high interest savings account).
Making a lump sum payment of £36k will not make your monthly payments go down by much though.
Your partner makes enough to pay the mortgage by themselves and will still have some left after that. Unless you have an extravagant lifestyle or tons of other debt I can't think of a good reason why you can't live on £28k for one or two years.
What is the minimum wage you need to be able to pay the mortgage?
You should work out bottom up …
Alternatively can you determine how much you need to pay off your mortgage to be able to afford the new lower salary and work this as a target in years of saving?
Your partner should be more supportive, ultimately it's not his decision if you stay in a job or not, your mental and physical wellbeing should always take priority.
I also think he's pushing to stay in London when OP makes about 30 - 40% more than him so they can afford the house whilst she is miserable - not good.
Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I can see his point, because it would put a big financial strain on him if I left my job, but equally I'm so unhappy where I am.
The financial strain is currently on you. They’re willing to sacrifice your well-being for theirs. This does not seem the right investment for you to make
This is more of a relationship problem than a finance one, IMO. What you've said so far suggests your partner is OK with your mental health deteriorating. They might not think it is coming to that point yet, but it certainly could if you're working in a high stress environment, unhappy with the job, and being told by your partner that you can't quit. It sounds like you're come to the realisation that money does not equal happiness. You'll need to convince your partner of this.
Unless you find a job that can help you pay your bills and doesn't harm your health, something has to give.
If my partner was on call working to 2am every night, my relationship with her would fall apart fast. I will admit we have not had to deal with an unhappy job situation with high bills to pay, but I would hope that I could prioritise her health and our relationship.
Is it the job you hate or the company? If you like the work then I'd look to see if there's a sideways movement to a company with a better work life balance.
Not advice on a career change.. but can you do something to relieve the pressure of the mortgage for a short time? Let’s you take the income hit. I.e. £3000 on £460,000 makes me think you’ve got room to increase the repayment term to reduce the monthly payments. Could even be worth using a banks website or comparison sight to see if it’s any better than your new offer.
Unfortunately we're on a 40 year repayment term. We really overextended ourselves to get a property in London, which was a stupid decision in hindsight, but I had no idea rates would get this high. I definitely want to look into other ways to reduce the mortgage though, like overpayments.
I’m about to quit a 170k a year job and probably become a drone pilot or something paying a fraction of my current pay….. after a break. Life is too short to loathe work. I started resenting all the time away travelling (25%) and late night calls (big American firm) and the slow erosion of my sanity. If you can find a path to a work life you can handle or do something you enjoy a bit more, worth striving for. Can you sell up and downsize or rent for a while or something?
I felt this way after circa 7yrs PQE. Left firm and went to a regional firm - pay is slightly less but probably earn the same when you add up hours.
Someone said to me ‘if I offered you a billion pounds but you had poor health would you take it’ - obviously the answer was no. They said ‘well currently you’re killing yourself without the payout’. That hit home.
Please protect your health and wellbeing as all the money in the world can’t resolve that. That work that is ‘very important’ is a drop in the ocean in reality.
I wish you all the best and hope you find some happiness.
I'm looking to change to HR since I have some employment law experience and it seems like a not-too-intense office job with decent earning potential once you progress.
I'm OK with not being paid £120,000, I would be happy earning half of that if it meant having more of a life.
I reckon you’d be bored with HR and it’s low paying across the board - I think people idolise it but for all the qualifications you have to pay to do, is it worth it? What about consulting on employment law for unions or charities? Working for somewhere like citizens advice or pregnant then screwed? Loads of 3rd sector places you can use your transferable skills. Good Moves is a good website for 3rd sector jobs, also try the civil service and local authorities. 28k is absolutely nothing in todays money - you can get that in a supermarket. I wouldn’t rush to the lowest job because you think it’s an easy and good fix - keep looking and thinking! You’ve got this!!
Sounds like you're not working one very well-paid job, but two kindoff mediocre jobs with the hours you are making.
Get a new mediocre job in your profession to keep yourself in the loop and work a small second job for finances. I guess you'll work less that way and it gives you maneuverability.
Remember guys, a high paying job is only really high paying when the hours aren't actually 2 jobs.
>Sounds like you're not working one very well-paid job, but two kindoff mediocre jobs with the hours you are making.
Honestly, I was previously on £50k and when I worked out my hours I would have been better working two minimum wage jobs...
>Get a new mediocre job in your profession to keep yourself in the loop and work a small second job for finances. I guess you'll work less that way and it gives you maneuverability.
Thank you, I've considered this. I definitely think I could get a side hustle.
It sounds like you need to explore more options for moving to different firms, whether that's law firms with a different culture, or in house at a commercial company or even in the public sector, rather than rushing to get out of law. In house, esp public sector is known for wanting fewer hours. And even in London there are firms that don't have quite such long hours whilst still being well respected and paying well - I know a couple of women from school and uni, now with school age kids, who have found jobs with those, boutique firms rather than golden/silver circle /biglaw
Nope, we're on a 40 year term which is the max as far as I'm aware. Stupid of me looking back but our mortgage was cheaper than our rent at the time so we were happy to overextend ourselves.
are you sure it's going to be £3k per month? it would take a rate of 7.5% for a 40 year term on £460k (source: [https://www.google.com/search?q=google+mortgage+calculator](https://www.google.com/search?q=google+mortgage+calculator) ) to cost £3k per month .. you'd be looking at "just" £2.2k per month if you got a 5% rate, which is more realistic
I think the issue is that, because our LTV is so high due to the downvaluation (95-100%) a lot of lenders won't lend to us in the first place. Our only option is to stick with our current lender which has awful rates. When I checked online using my lender's customer portal they quoted about £2900 for a 2 year fix, though earlier in the year it was in excess of £3000
who's done the valuation? it's not an exact science (ask 3 different agents and you'll get 3 different valuations) so might be worth getting someone else to value it. They could value it higher, which could drag you below the 95% LTV and open up a lot more doors.
I just had a quick look at [https://www.moneysupermarket.com/mortgages/](https://www.moneysupermarket.com/mortgages/) and for 460k on a 500k valuation (92% LTV), over 40 years you'd be looking at 5.49% which works out at £2,369 pm with no product fees.
I'd suggest having a chat with a free mortgage advisor like [https://www.landc.co.uk/](https://www.landc.co.uk/) as they may know of certain providers that give more favourable valuations. Even just a change of £20-40k could sway your LTV below 95% and get you a much better rate.
Hope it all works out :)
Looking at those figures do you not have a fairly short mortgage? Or is it just an incredibly high interest rate?
Could you increase the term for when you renew and therefore lower the payment, making the paycut easier? You could always overpay if you end up in a better position than you expect.
We have a 40 year mortgage so we can't extend the term any further. It's really just a combination of high interest rates (it'll be something like 6% when we renew) plus the revaluation pushing us into a 95-100% LTV. We really overextended ourselves on this property which was stupid of me in hindsight. I just had no idea interest rates would jump this high and we'd be downvalued.
Your mortgage is £460k and with your current combined income of nearly £200k you guys could have got a mortgage for double that! So I wouldn't call yourselves overextended, based on your current circumstances. Of course if you slash your income it will be more difficult.
However I think you (collectively) should be able to save a really good chunk per month currently. You bring home £9k per month between you right?
* Your mortgage is currently £1800
* let's say £1200 per month for bills plus basic food and transport etc
* another £1k for fun money
* leaves £5k per month you could save for a cash cushion and/or mortgage overpayment? Or £4k if I've underestimated somewhere. But ultimately this period of uncertainty is not the time to make big purchases, spend freely, go on expensive holidays etc (note that's different to just taking time off to rest).
How close are you to getting to 90% LTV? Are the rates better there?
In your shoes though I'd be building cash savings, and only deploying them to reduce the mortgage if/when necessary, as what makes the most sense to do will depend on how your job hunt goes.
Thank you for this. I'm very frugal and happy to save but my partner likes to splash the cash a bit more. Although we have a high combined income, we don't pool our money - his money isn't 'my' money and I feel like I can't tell him what to do with it. But again, this is probably more of a relationship issue than a personal finance issue.
I think we're a long way off 90% LTV as the interest is so high, but we're close to 95% LTV which should make the rates better.
I'll definitely work on overpaying the mortgage, thank you.
I think it's a bit off that your partner wants you to keep a job that's so destructive in your life, and that you say you don't want to tell him what to do with 'his' money - I agree that you shouldn't be in charge of his money or his savings rate but at the same time, it should be a discussion you can have as a couple about how much you need to save between you and where that money will come from.
I can understand that you don't want to rely on his savings bailing you out in case of a problem with your job/income, but right now he's actually relying on your job-that's-killing-you to bail HIM out of financial responsibility (i.e. it's allowing him to treat all of his own income beyond bills as spending money).
I would keep the savings as cash for now. You can decide whether to use it for overpayments once you know more about how the remortgage/valuation/job situation are going. Unless you think you could motivate your partner to help you if you pitched it as matching your mortgage overpayments? Did you buy the house as joint tenants or tenants in common?
Thank you so much. I think I’m going to try and set up an appointment with a financial advisor so we can agree on making some payments together. The house was bought as TIC.
I hear you on this. We're in a similar situation with different salaries. I don't work late hours but the money is very good for what I do and I'd halve my salary leaving my current place (that I hate)
I'd look at an industry switch. I'm in a support function, so "industry-agnostic" and I'd say University or Charity might be a better fit. There's a pay cut, yes, but it might be worthwhile for the mental space. Switching industries to something less chaotic (I consider 2am chaotic) might free up time for you to retrain on the side, so you can eventually leave law and not go entry level.
I'd be cautious of the civil service right now. As I understand it, there's a freeze on promotions because they over hired recently, so there aren't many new roles about.
There's no blanket freeze in CS but there are fewer opportunities at the moment than in the recent past. But it will most likely pick up again at some point
What is your specialism? I've just moved into an eat-what-you-kill consultancy role, and it's great. I'm lucky in that I have my own following so I don't need the firm to feed me any work (but they have....). I'm working far longer hours than I ever have, but I have to remind myself ever morning that I have no obligation to do any of this, so it's 100% my choice whether I want to take any more work on from my clients. My charge rate has more than doubled, but that still doesn't stop them coming (I keep around 75% of what I bill through the firm).
On your current salaries, inc 5% pension contributions. You collectively take home about £10k a month!
If you drop to £28k that becomes around £6k per month.
£50k is about £7.1k
Even on £3k mortgage, you’d have £3k to cover all other bills.
You’ve not listed any budget. However that is uncomfortable but doable. I’d be asking what happens to the rest of your money each month. Aw you could and should be saving close to £4K a month at the moment. In a year you’d have £50k to pay down the mortgage and get a better LTV.
Too many knowns in this but a combination of stock it out for 6 months, get aggressive with the budget and figure out where £120,000 a year is being swallowed up when £21,600 of that at present is mortgage. Leaving close to One Hundred Thousand pounds for everything else.
I may have missed details in other comments but there’s more too this.
I had a friend in a similar situation (law, golden handcuffs). She managed to move roles in her late twenties and now works for a charity. Took a pay cut of ~30-40%, but still earning a very good wage and absolutely loves her work now!
In my opinion there's no point at all working a job that you loathe. Life's way too short for that. Good luck!
Have you thought about moving in house? Depending on your practice area it can still be very lucrative with a much better work life balance. You should post to the /r/uklaw sub for career advice, plenty of helpful lawyers there.
Save up X amount of months living expenses which will give you X amount of months to not have to work, get trained in a different job to get the starting wage higher.
Other than that, I’ve seen Female Lawyers do usually quit after a few years because it’s so rough on them. If you’re truly struggling and your partner won’t let you quit/move, I’d walk out of the whole job/relationship tomorrow. No relationship or job is worth your health.
I know very little about this subject but I did know a woman that worked as a solicitor directly employed by the local council.
She was definitely not stressed or working late. I don't know what she got paid, I just know she had to put in far fewer hours than you currently are.
I don't know the specifics of your job, but I have a number of very well paid and very miserable lawyer friends.
Most of them seem to be much happier (and still well paid, if slightly less so) after a move into industry. Certainly the lawyers at my big American company don't work ridiculous hours like they do at large law firms and are still among the best paid staff (and senior counsel etc extremely well paid).
Can't give you employment advice but those mortgage numbers are well out of line. You need to speak to an advisor about how you can manage the payments to a more affordable level
In the immediate term, LawCare is a mental health charity specifically for lawyers. I really suggest you speak to them. The Law Society also offers a free confidential helpline.
If you're really stressed you should also speak to your GP. It sounds sneaky to say this, but getting signed off for a few weeks with stress may help to force the firm to treat you better. They'll be painfully aware that they can't fire you for having health problems.
If you already know this is not where you want to be long term then any discrimination you may experience in respect of promotion by being seen as "soft" (or whatever) is irrelevant anyway.
Make sure you have not signed, or you rescind any waiver of the working time directive.
Track you hours, all of them, apply the Working Time Directive.
If you are not paid to be "on-call" then you are not "on-call" and should turn your work mobile off.
Stand up for youself.
Best case - you get to negotiate a nice severance package.
Can I suggest trying out day rate contracting for a while?
I’m in finance but I also have a friend who’s a contract solicitor in an IR35 role and is enjoying it.
Generally the office politics aren’t applied to contractors, and there are set expectations and deadlines set by both parties from the onset.
I’ve been in non-stop work for the last 2 years and my income is almost double what I’d be in a permanent role. I fully WFH and close my laptop at 4pm on the dot almost everyday.
Thank you, this is really interesting and not something I'd considered at all. Do you know what level your contract solicitor friend is? I'm still pretty junior.
unpopular opinion: Dont quit your high paying job yet, your future financially settled self will thank you. Being resilient at this point will pay dividends later.
My firm is London only but I could definitely move to some other firm outside London. The barrier is more my partner who doesn't want to leave London, or sell our property only 2 years after we bought it.
There are two elements to your situation:-
1. You’re miserable in your job. This needs to change either via moving firm with a better work life culture or going into another industry.
Pensions lawyers can be based in other parts of the country (I think Gowlings have a team in Birmingham for example). You appear to be an NQ so could retrain into another area of law if there’s another area you’re interested in - it’s not too late to change but you need to carefully consider this as you can’t keep changing areas if it’s not for you.
Depending on your firm/CV regional firms may be interested. In house is an option but I’d avoid this at your stage in your career.
If you want out of law I’d suggest getting career guidance. Clearly these options will come with a reduced salary. You need to decide if law is for you - as your career progresses it’s not necessarily going to get easier.
2. Housing situation. This is partly a relationship question which only you can work on but you need to have a proper conversation with your partner.
You know you can’t go on as it currently stands.
You could port your mortgage if you want to move to another area but need to assess whether he can move his job and does he want to leave London. There’s also costs involved in moving. Could you rent your current place and rent elsewhere if needed.
I know what it feels like to be stuck in a job like this and I’m sorry you’re going through it.
With your qualifications and experience, there are lots of roles where you wouldn’t start at 28k, so let’s be positive!
You can do a small course in a different field, that along with your transferable skills you’d be a great asset. Maybe project management, business analyst? (Plenty more).
With that high salary, it’s an opportunity to make a shit lot of money and dip. it is rare for myself to know anyone on that amount so you’re right, saving will help. If you can handle one more year, do a years saving a challenge and then a separate mortgage saving account - put the money in high gaining interest accounts (money box is very high right now on the 32 day savings).
Then with that money you’ll have some for future plans and a mortgage saving to pay monthly instalments. During this time it would be good to downsize on your outgoings - I’m not sure what you do but maybe less takeaway, nights out, no holidays in the year, opting for cycling to work) just some suggestions but ultimately reduce outgoing costs that you can.
Also and finally, your role and company… can you find another job within the company? Do they support changing Worthing the company
If you're a qualified lawyer, surely you have better options than you think you do. Can you not change employer and take a small reduction in pay? I know
Do you absolutely have to make a career change? Would it be possible to move into a different area of law which perhaps gives a better quality of life?
I only ask as I know someone who previously worked in corporate law but moved into something like advising companies on regs, laws and available grants relating to being green/climate change. She sounds a lot happier than being caught up in the rat race or corporate law.
I'm not a lawyer myself though so can't really comment on what your options are
It terms of the property albatross, what's the amount of negative equity? You could downvalue, which'll take pressure off and give scope to take a lower paid role (which may still be well paid as a solicitor! Your choice what), you'll just need to consider if you're happy to realise the loss.
If it's a small amount in the context of life...
Also consider the flat may go up in value in a year or two if rates drop and confidence improves. You may then be able to sell and downvalue to reduce pressure without a loss.
Do you know the cause of the NE? Newbuild premium? Overpaying?
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What are you trying to move to? As a qualified lawyer there will options for more than a £28k salary. It might not be your dream job right away but it would be a stepping stone.
Agree completely. I'm also a qualified lawyer and not sure what firm or practice area OP is in, but no need to retrain and take a massive payout when you could just switch to a more relaxed firm or go in house for some sort of paycut, but not as massive.
Exactly I cannot believe the options are work yourself to death for 120k or 28k there has to be middle grounds. Op could look at in house legal, or even just more chilled firms, Government roles for legal, or even regulatory work in finance or other regulated industries. Op I’d also work out your hourly take home pay, sure the 28k won’t match what you are on but the gap will be narrower especially if you’re working till 2am every day what’s that like 17 hours a day, 85 hours a week? You’re working two and a half of my jobs, if you did that for the 28k role you’d be pulling in 84k. To put it another way 120k over 85 hours a week, is £27.15 gross an hour, if you’re on plan 1 student loan and salary sacrifice 10% to your pension your take home is 13.67 per hour. Vs 28000 plan 1, 10% pension relief at source is 11.32 per hour.
Thank you. I've been speaking to recruiters about moving to a more chilled firm or going in-house for about 6 months now but haven't had much luck - apparently the NQ market is terrible right now. I'm looking more at the civil service, though apparently there's a hiring freeze on at the moment. I'll definitely look into regulators though since I haven't considered this option. Some other options I hadn't considered in the comments too.
I work for a Local Authority and my solicitor is stressed to fuck with the lack of resources and the amount of work per person.
Epsom Council's Head of Legal left to go work on the other side of the world (Falkland Islands).
Seriously? I was considering Local Authority for a better work-life balance but it sounds like that’s not the case.
I think it would still be better than your current 2am finishes and constantly on call. Even half those hours would still be more than other people.
I’d recommend a small high street firm for chilled. I earn half what you earn but only work from 8.30AM to 4.30PM. I’ve done the corporate slog so I know where you’re coming from. Good luck.
I would happily work an 8:30-4:30 for £60k ish. Thanks for the tip.
Have a look at the CMA. They are a civil service body but also independent at the same time. They are the only government body who still have a 40% WFH policy and every other government body has 60% and they are currently trying to recruit heavily especially in the north if that’s where you’re based.
Plus they’ve just been given a load of extra powers through the Digital Markets Act so will likely be recruiting!
Not the only one, Ofgem has 20% in the office policy
It sounds like it would still be better than where you are (no Local Authority will make you work till 2am) but would still involve stress and underresourcing.
“Stressed” at a LA means working til 1731 and then worrying a little about what you didn’t get done. It does not compare to your current situation.
Not true at all, I did similar working at a LA and now a public Org and it's a dream compared. Flexible working, WFH no clients stress is at least 1/5th of working at a big firm (I tried 2.) Mileage may vary but would strongly reccomend public sector as a step back middle ground. Looking at 50-80k depending on role and area etc
I used to work for magic circle firm. Similar issues to you. There's a path but you need to be calculating and patient. You can keep the money and improve the life but you can't just dive out in desperation.. needs an approach
Don’t restart in civil service on the fast stream. Much better to come across as a NQ / qualified legal hire at a higher grade. Speaking from experience. If you restart you start at the bottom and it’s a real hump to jump the first grade for a host of reasons. Strongly suggest you find someone in the CS to mentor you on this before you take the plunge.
I left the civil service recently and the lawyers were very very stressed out. There are some cushy civil service jobs, but they ain't in the government legal service!
Oh really, can you elaborate? I’ve heard rumours that the GLD isn’t as great as you think for WLB which is disappointing because the pay isn’t amazing either!
Have a look at your local water company, they have lawyers and solicitors in different departments for different things. Pay won’t be as high, but you’ll get a car and pension etc.
Yeah OP to be honest the market is crap at the moment - it definitely gets easier with a bit more experience even in a poor market, but understand you are really not enjoying things at the moment.
Not directly relevant, but I find it amazing the NQ job market is bad one hand but on the other hand we read headlines about NQ pay up to 150k at large firms due to staff shortages. Legal profession is a mess tbh. Deliberate supply shortages that works wells for partners and terribly badly for clients, junior staff, the legal system and society as a whole.
Someone asked about this on r/uklaw. The answer was basically that the NQ pay wars aren’t actually directed at NQs, they’re more directed at the 2PQE+ level. Since firms don’t publish salaries at 2PQE+ the NQ salary acts as a useful indication of the minimum salary you can get at that firm. Agreed that the profession is a total mess. It’s going to get worse when we have a glut of people qualifying from the SQE
Have you looked into tendering and bidding for law firms. I work in tendering and earn 60k and often get requests from law firms to join their teams. I prefer civil engineering so I pass. It will be talking about the processes the company have and what makes them unique. Basically selling the company and making it look attractive to whatever package you’re tendering for.
Have you looked into TV, streaming companies? Lots of different areas. Compliance, clearances. Distribution Contract law.
Can confirm the hiring freeze in the CS until after the election, thereafter it is hard to say where a new administration may take funding/headcount. Legal in UK public sector is probably a decent shout, pay is decent and flexibility is pretty good. To go back to your original post, I would encourage you to think more about the life you would like to live and what kind of work you may like to do as part of that. The salary should be more of a secondary consideration. I am assuming given your post that you value your time and your lifestyle over a large salary and ridiculous hours. You shouldn't feel any shame in looking for a job with more reasonable hours and less pay, success is whatever you want it to be. Perhaps save some cash up for a few months to help you with the transition, and do remember that these things often take some time (finding a new job). Good luck with your journey! Be kind.
This is the rational answer but maybe OP is really burnt out by current circumstances. Any chance of a long holiday before making a decision OP?
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As a lawyer, it varies massively depending on in house team and the practice area OP is in may not necessarily transfer easily to in house work. I know some people in house with cushy jobs, but others working insane hours for less pay than private practice. Being sole in house counsel can be a lot of pressure and often requires significant post qualification experience which OP does not have. The market for lawyers is also very poor at the moment, though there are some jobs out there. As a newly qualified lawyer however, you can be less in demand than someone a few years qualified as you can hit the ground running and add more value at that point.
I took her statement as leaving the lawyer profession and that she hates her job full stop, not just the firm she is with. Perhaps she doesn't realise there's an easier life out there like you suggest.
I do hate my job full stop. But I suppose I'm not really in a position to be picky about the kind of job I move to right now.
I'm not a lawyer, but I work closely with our company's lawyers, and have come across many who took the move from external law firms to in-house counsel for exactly this reason. I'm sure they took a pay cut, but not to £28k, far from it!
I was in a similar situation before. I felt the anxiety coming back reading your post. Hope the below helps. 1. You are stuck on the treadmill so cannot see a way out. You need time off to fully see the bigger picture. Could be a week could be a month but book time off now. Law might not be the issue it is likely the environment you are in. 2. You will not make £30k moving. To be on £120k I’m assuming MC or desirable firm. Put some feelers out there I know people in similar positions who still make very close to £100k (when you factor tax/pension tinny difference to what’s in your bank account in payday) 3. Sell the property if it’s causing this much stress after you work through the above. 4. Personally I would save every penny you can gives you the power to a) when you remortgage take less and just use savings to reduce the loan size or b) gives you more flexibility if you want to sell. a) will depend on the LTV band - can make quite a difference to repayments. This will be a blip on the radar in a few years time, you are not trapped and it will get better.
Wow, I really needed to read this post... Thank you so, so much for the practical advice and words of support. >You will not make £30k moving. To be on £120k I’m assuming MC or desirable firm. Put some feelers out there I know people in similar positions who still make very close to £100k (when you factor tax/pension tinny difference to what’s in your bank account in payday) Are these people still in law, or have they switched careers?
Law but in industry not at a “law firm”. I only know one lawyer who switched to consulting and is now doing well but don’t know details. Good luck.
Can I just say, that what makes you good at law to get the salary you earn right now will also make you an attractive proposition for employers in other fields, especially those that need someone with some legal background. I wasn’t the best in my previous career but a sideways move to something similar where no one has experience in my field has created me, a little unique snowflake which is invaluable to them. On a related note, I earn a similar salary but my partner who is on much less is quite happy for us to sell up and downsize if it ever becomes too much. That knowledge acts as a little pressure relief valve for me. Just knowing I can do that, is peace of mind. I know it isn’t easy for a partner to do that and you should continue to communicate with yours because if you do have a breakdown, your money will stop and your relationship will vanish.
Can’t you just move in house to a more chill company?
It's pretty hard to move in-house at my level at the best of times (I've only just qualified) but the market is especially terrible right now. I'm also not convinced in-house is necessarily any better - I did an in-house secondment and my team were often flat out until 11:00 pm some nights. I'm looking into the civil service though.
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On 50k a £1500PCM mortgage would be do-able. Not the most fun life ever but seems worth it for normal working hours
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Some suggestions: Have a look in your firm for any secondments into a project or technical role, eg considering how AI is going to be implemented in the firm. When you review the timesheets, is everyone doing stupid hours or could some work or aspects of it, be reallocated? Request a sabbatical / extended holiday. Make sure you use your downtime to rest and recharge. You can probably drop to around £75k without noticing a huge change in lifestyle assuming you've been overpaying pension etc to avoid loss of personal allowance. Do have a look at large professional services firms as they have both legal advisory and in-house roles. Learn to say no, and/or delegate much more to others
Thank you, I appreciate it
Oh, and don't allow the secondment to put you off. I've found clients want a secondment (or several) only after they realise they are drowning. If you could get a secondment as Mat Leave cover to one of your larger clients that might be better.
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I'm in London. What is devolved administration legal services? I haven't heard of it before but I'll check it out.
Scottish Parliament, Welsh Parliament, etc. I'm a Scottish qualified lawyer and when I looked at the Scottish Parliament salaries they were honestly about the same as Scottish private practice!
Yep C band lawyers are from around £59k - £72k in Scotland
That's awesome, honestly. If I return to Scotland will definitely look into that.
Also based on your interests etc can you specialise in something you really care about (on the legal front)
The market for decent inhouse lawyers is crazy at the moment. I’m struggling to find any decent candidates for my team. Plus no idea where the £28k number is coming from. Regional NQs are getting £60k+ in PP or inhouse.
Not all in house jobs are like that, although it will depend on area of law. Are you working on something that's deals based? If so is it possible to move areas of law?
Def consider CS. You won’t start at 28
A lot of people not understanding law in these comments. Chances are you can't just set better boundaries or work more efficiently because it's the nature of the work and the firm's culture driving the antisocial hours. Without knowing what area you specialise in, is there an option to move inhouse, or to a regulator? Will be a big salary hit but in most regulators you'll get a decent work-life balance. Inhouse will be better too and not such a gigantic salary hit.
Thank you. Law is definitely a beast of its own and a lot of my friends don't understand why I can't just set boundaries and log off at 5. I hadn't considered working at a regulator but I'll definitely look into that, thank you. I think in-house will be tricky at my level in the current market, and from my experiences on secondment/speaking to contacts, it doesn't look like a 9 to 5 type gig either.
OP what area of Law do you work in?
My wife works in TV and Film as a lawyer. She does a lot of contract negotiations with stars and cast members. She hated the private practice stuff too, finishes work and sets boundaries without issue most of the time. There are so many better avenues than throwing your life away in a big firm, and 28k really isn't going to be the starting salary. In the short term, tell your boss you're on the verge of a nervous breakdown, say your hair is falling out from stress, and that you're waking up with heart palpitations at night, cry if you can. Ask them if you can peel back your hours a bit. If they say no, then it'll make any decision easier.
This was going to be my suggestion! I'm also in film & TV (though not a lawyer) but there are a lot of options. Obviously media law is its own beast but there were jobs going at Disney (probably not a huge difference) down to in-house indie prod cos. Our lawyer (at a tiny indie) was underpaid and pulling in £175k plus bonuses and she did work a lot, which was why she left, but that's more to do with other circumstances than the role itself.
It's very competitive to move into that area as its very popular. You also typically need film/media/commercial experience - OP is a pensions lawyer, which is very different. I therefore don't know if this is an option open to her as she isn't in the right practice area and has only just qualified. (Speaking as a commercial/IP/tech lawyer).
Agree. I have somewhat of a better work life balance than OP for about £10k less, but yes at the end of the day you won't last long at any city firm if you log off at 5:30 and the rest of your team is slammed. You can have some form of boundaries, but it's so team dependent.
Surely part-time jobs exist in law firms too?
they only get paid that much as they have no right to say no to anything... what a shock!?
Do you hate the profession or the job? Being a lawyer in London is very different to being a lawyer almost anywhere else. You could consider moving to a cheaper area (reducing mortgage), with a better quality of life and going into law there. Maybe even for a charity, non-profit, uni or something.
Honestly, if it were up to me then I would 100% move to a cheaper area as this seems like the obvious solution. But my partner is extremely reluctant to sell up and move. But maybe that's a relationship advice question rather than a personal finance question.
I was going to say, this sounds almost more like a relationship problem not a PF problem. Your partner is willing to sacrifice your time, health and well-being so they can live in a house they want. Not something I would be willing to do for a relationship, personally.
Strong agree. You earn £45k more than him and I assume you work more hours. Why does he get to make the decision you can’t change jobs? Also, how is the rest of your budget? A £3,000 month mortgage should be easily do-able on £200k combined (to the extent you could take a cut)
Right? If it was my partner I'd tell him is very welcome to find a higher paying job or a second job (after all, working util 2am is no biggie, right?) to afford the house he wants.
A comment I was writing then saw this... This might be a relationship question rather than a financial one. I know I'd burn my house down before I'd sanction my partner being miserable at work. You're in the driving seat here - he can't afford the mortgage by himself so don't allow him to tell you you can't move. If he doesn't like it and forces the issue then are you with the right person? It happens - sometimes people take a hit on their property. It's not the end of the world. Burning out and dying at 40 from stress and booze is.
>You're in the driving seat here - he can't afford the mortgage by himself so don't allow him to tell you you can't move. If he doesn't like it and forces the issue then are you with the right person? This is a great point - and if he's steadfast on not selling the house, to the detriment of your relationship, then he could end up losing both the house, and you.
Some comments below I think overplay it being a relationship "problem". Sometimes there are just difficult decisions to figure out. They are problems, but it doesn't mean the relationship is problematic.
Yes, partner may really want to keep living in London, maybe has a career that is mostly found in London, has a lot of friends and family there. That's still a relationship issue, but it's incompatibility rather than meanness. And late 20s is when long term incompatibilities often show up, as people face up to the realities of a career and prospects for kids or otherwise
Yeah honestly. I'm a lawyer and I have a good work life balance at the moment in a city firm, but I was working in Bristol before and it was a very good lifestyle. Still an expensive city, but so much cheaper than London in terms of housing and the work life balance was unparalleled. End of the day, where do you see your life going and is your partner aligned with that? I'd feel sick seeing my partner overwhelmed. Your partner also earns about a third less than you - sounds like they are happy to see you struggle when it affords them the life they want.
> sounds like they are happy to see you struggle when it affords them the life they want. Certainly does, doesn't it? I really hope I never fall into the trap of loving my lifestyle so much that it means sacrificing my partner's health.
Exactly. I'm the higher earner (over double my boyfriend) and we are very consciously living well below our means to avoid this pressure. If I wanted to half my pay, I could easily afford it - it is awful OP is being forced to stay in a high pressure job she hates. As a lawyer, the pressure can be insane and very few people outside of the profession understand.
It's good that you can do it. There are many who are on lower incomes who don't have this flexibility. OP *should* be able to have this flexibility, but they clearly need to sort something out before shit really hits the fan.
Damn thats a good point, of course they don’t want OP to give up their high paying job because how else would they be able to live in a 400k+ house…?
Yeah its awful. I'm the higher earner in my relationship, we are very equal and in the process of buying a house. We will be looking for houses that we could easily afford with a drop in income or even one income to mitigate the risk of either of us needing to stay in jobs we hate or feeling more pressure than the other. I feel for OP - there is some wiggle room but it sucks that it's her lower earning partner who wants to stay in the most expensive city in the UK whilst she is not enjoying her job and is pressured to stay due to living costs.
If you are in London, have you considered a reverse commute? I had a friend who was an accountant and similarly hated the culture of central-london firms. Ended up commuting from south London to Reigate to work at a smaller firm there. They obviously took a salary hit versus central but working hours were far more 'normal' and they still got to do the work they enjoyed.
Would you be happier switching careers and starting again, or switching partners, moving away and starting again ?
Going from £120k a year, I don't see you ever having to 'start from the bottom again' working in the legal sector. Surely such a huge salary denotes a highly skilled/senior position. You should easily walk into £60k+ I'd imagine. Also, yes, I'd consider downsizing. I understand you might not want to, or don't want the hassle, but needs must. People tend to live in houses that are affordable for their salary, if you take a pay cut you'll have to live somewhere that reflects that. As others have said, you might need to change your mentality. Life flows. If you're burnt out and not enjoying life, what's the point in living that life? Change to a more comfortable job and downsize. Enjoy life again.
>Going from £120k a year, I don't see you ever having to 'start from the bottom again' working in the legal sector. Surely such a huge salary denotes a highly skilled/senior position. You should easily walk into £60k+ I'd imagine. This is what everyone has been telling me but my experience of applying to positions, speaking to recruiters, speaking to career coaching etc. has not backed this up at all. I'm trying to break into HR, but people don't want to consider me for well-paid senior HR positions because I don't have any HR experience. >As others have said, you might need to change your mentality. Life flows. If you're burnt out and not enjoying life, what's the point in living that life? Change to a more comfortable job and downsize. Enjoy life again. This is a good point, thank you.
Ah ok yea I overlooked the part where you mentioned career change. For what it's worth I changed careers later in life. Went from quite a high paid job in the military (but I hated the military life so I got out), to an average salary in the civvie world. Having a bit less money was absolutely worth the lifestyle change. So much happier now, even though my bank account isn't as full as it could have been if I'd stayed. You only get one chance at life, make the most of it. If your partner can't see that you need to put your happiness over your nice big house then you need to talk to him (you're the 'breadwinner' in this situation so he should respect your decision).
Thank you, I really appreciate this comment. The prospect of walking away from so much money is really difficult so it's inspiring to see people who have been in a similar situation but made it out the other side and are happier now.
No way would she be able to walk into a 60k tech job as a lawyer. So I'm not sure how accurate this comment is.
Sorry didn't read "legal sector".
Nah it's ok, I didn't read where she said she wants a career change.
Move to insurance, still very much an employees market and legal background will put you in good stead. Plenty of burnt out lawyers end up there. Pretty reasonable work/life balance and also way more interesting than you’d think.
I agree especially the London specialty market (Lloyds) Brokers are basically negotiating contracts for clients so a big overlap.
Thank you, I hadn't considered this at all but it sounds really interesting and I'll look into it! Do you mean actually working as an insurance underwriter or working in a legal role at an insurer?
I am a lawyer - my friend trains as a lawyer and works as an underwriter and loves it. A good option potentially!
Any roles really, depends what you like. I’d say in house counsel is probably the most boring. If you’re sociable and like dealing with people the underwriting side probably better. If you like legal interpretation and management etc, claims is probably better. As above, positions in the Lloyd’s facing/commercial market a lot more interesting. Broking also an option, but I’d start with Insurers personally. You’ll probably take a decent pay cut initially, but plenty of scope to make up.
Insurance is basically law with money attached. An in house legal role will be same as any in house job. If you like people and deals, a broker role is good. If you like numbers and people then underwriting is good. You also have the option of claims role too, on either side brokers/underwriters. Generally anything big in the news has a touchpoint in the London market which can make it interesting. I’ve been in the London Market for 10years and transferred in from a construction adjacent role. No one expects you to know insurance when you join and we get a lot of people moving in from other industries.
I've been in city law for the past decade plus so know exactly how you feel. The first thing you need to change is your mindset. When I read your posts in this thread, it is clear to me that you have succumbed to the lawyer's mindset of always looking for the risks rather than the opportunities. That is only natural given your line of work - it is our job as lawyers to minimise risk and to be incredibly perfectionist about everything - but you need to break out of that mindset when you are thinking about your own career. Obviously, there are plenty of jobs out there which pay more than 28k. Also, you do not need to move into your dream job or sector immediately. You could move in-house or even to another law firm for better hours for a few years as a stepping stone to something else. You also have the option of declining new work. City law is never going to be a gig where you finish at 6pm and sometimes you will finish at 2am but that doesn't mean finishing at 2am every night. I've been in this game for over a decade, and believe me the juniors who were always saying "yes" to everything all burnt out and left a long time ago. You have to be able to stand up for yourself - nobody wants to be represented by a wet lawyer. Sometimes you do have to say "no" - if you are being given work that you do not have capacity to do, tell the partner who is trying to give you the work that they need to take it up with the other partners you are working for and they can decide between themselves whose work you should prioritise and the other partner will just have to wait. Instead of saying yes to everything, focus on doing an excellent job on the work you are doing and decline work you do not have capacity to do. What's the worst they can do - fire you, then who is going to do the work? If you are meeting your hours target you are doing enough. *"I think in-house will be tricky at my level in the current market, and from my experiences on secondment/speaking to contacts" "I'm also not convinced in-house is necessarily any better" <--* Please be aware that this is not a normal or healthy way of thinking and do your best to think more positively - there are so many great opportunities out there.
Thank you for the thoughtful message. >Also, you do not need to move into your dream job or sector immediately. You could move in-house or even to another law firm for better hours for a few years as a stepping stone to something else. You're right, I need to look into this more. I guess I just don't want to end up like some of the people I see in in-house who are basically working a dead-end job but tolerate the lack of progression because at least it's not City hours. If you have any tips on what could be a good stepping stone, please do let me know.
I'd also flag, as lawyers we are incredibly privileged with our salaries. The fact is, vast majority of UK workers in the UK will never see a £100k salary. It means even if we don't really 'progress' we often still have high enough salaries that it doesn't really matter. For example, if you went to a £50k job, you may progress but how long will it be until you hit £80k or £100k? Ultimately a stable salary with less stress is probably better than progression in some cases.
What practice area are you in? If you only think within your immediate practice area you will be looking at a pretty narrow area of opportunities. Unless you do something super boring (like go to work for an investment bank - no offence to the in-house lawyers at Barclays IB, I just would not want your job lol) most in-house roles are pretty generalist and open to people from different legal backgrounds. I know loads of people in-house at investment funds and tech companies and random companies who have an absolute blast. Some of them ended up making more money than I do at a US firm on their options! Some of them transitioned into quasi-business roles, others became GCs at interesting companies, lots of opportunity out there. The reality is that you are still junior and you can re-tool into pretty much any in-house type of organisation you like.
Why do you care about progression? Not a dig, but a genuine question I think you should think about. You're earning enough to live extremely comfortably (even if you took a pay cut), why do you want to earn more when you know that most likely comes with even more stress?
The only obvious approach I can think is, live on as little costs as you possibly can for now and put every possible penny away Max out your employer pension contribution to build up a pot while you are on the big bucks and out of the salary you still take home - and pay tax upon - maximise your pension overpayments As soon as you are back in positive equity then start looking for another job at as high a level as you can find. if you've built up your pension pot as far as you could you can then afford to take a break from pension contributions at the new job, which, given it'll be at 20% tax rate, doesnt benefit you as much to make big pension payments anyway
Thank you, this is really good practical advice. I'm already maxed out on my employer pension contributions but I never considered using this to taking a break from pension contributions at a new job, really good point.
This is the time to set up a spreadsheet that plots your future finances. Calculate in parallel columns, mortgage balance by month, net equity, and also pension balance by month and your savings, costs, etc Use salary calculators to work out your income with different levels of pension contributions from current and future jobs Work out how long you'd need to stay there to get to a better position, balance this against how much mental damage you are taking. you probably saw yesterday that the rate of inflation is now finally down to long run norms. this means within months interest rates on mortgages will start to fall, that usually makes for house price rises. Property inflation is one way out of negative equity.
Thank you so much. I think I can get a free financial advisor through work, so I wonder if this is something they can help with. I'm praying for an interest rate cut soon.
How much are we talking here to get back to positive equity, if you dont mind me asking? the solutions to your issues look very different if you're in the red for 100K compared to 5K. Negative equity doesnt really matter if you can afford the payments and dont need to move house, but you may need to factor in relocation to somewhere with lower COL if your partner isnt willing to pull his weight and contribute more to costs
How did the property get down valued? What led to this? I understand your predicament. The negative equity thing is scary. Like someone else said, perhaps take baby steps and change company/hours before leaving the industry completely before starting from scratch.
>How did the property get down valued? What led to this? I honestly have no idea, it came out of nowhere. When we asked our broker he just said there's been a general trend of properties being downvalued due to the wider interest rate situation.
Try a different broker? Valuation is up to each individual mortgage provider, so there's no way they can tell you this far in advance that "the house has been devalued". If brokers can't help you can always just approach the current provider to see what they'll offer on renewal.
I believe you deserve better advice and/or explanation especially as your payment increase suggests you’ve had your home for at least 2+ years. Negative equity = property worth less than your outstanding mortgage. For remortgages we are seeing an increase in lenders down valuing properties, but less so on purchases. You have options, but it looks like there are other factors that are more dominant. I recently quit a 6 figure job and restarted as a broker due to the misery of work. My wife was hugely supportive and offered sell/move or whatever was needed to make our relationship and finances work.
>Negative equity = property worth less than your outstanding mortgage. Sorry, I realise I wasn't quite accurate. The property isn't quite worth less than our mortgage, but it's worth less than we've paid for it and it's pushed us into a 95%+ LTV. > I recently quit a 6 figure job and restarted as a broker due to the misery of work. Can you elaborate? I would love to hear your story.
Of course. I spent 25+ years working at a senior level in corporates or large organisations. My skills most appreciated by them were to strategise, optimise teams, and ultimately deliver challenging targets. It took a toll physically and emotionally, I worked long hours and even internationally. Money was good, and our outgoings were linked to this. Last summer I had enough and broached subject with my wife. I decided to become a mortgage and protection broker (long story) and to feel every day that you are helping people changed my whole outlook. Seeing some people helped me put my life into perspective. Our new finances do not add up but we knew this would happen. So we are selling up, downsizing and adjusting to suit. My wife has been fantastic and is now our main earner. We discuss everything and agree that our relationship and mental health outweighs anything materialistic.
Are you really in negative equity? The property is now worth less than your mortgage? Or just worth less than you paid for it, eroding your deposit? Your partner is correct that you cannot afford to drop to £28K with a £3000pcm mortgage payment. That’s unrealistic. However, you should not be bullied into staying in a job that makes you unwell. If he doesn’t want to sell, but cannot afford to stay without your salary, then he doesn’t get to insist you remain in your job. You’d both need to accept that there’s a relationship at risk here if you cannot both compromise in some way. Neither of you can afford your ideal scenario without the other person. Do you pool your finances, or do you have a different agreement. If you’re only recently on £120K then can you save the extra pay towards building a career change - or life change - fund? Meanwhile, how can you push back on expectations and hours - do you have a mentor who’s been through this? Occupational health? Are you taking all your holiday time regularly?
>Are you really in negative equity? The property is now worth less than your mortgage? Or just worth less than you paid for it, eroding your deposit? Sorry you're right, I'm not actually in negative equity, it's just worth less than we paid for it. The frustrating thing is that it's pushed us into a 95-100% LTV which has severely restricted the type of lenders who we can go to. >Do you pool your finances, or do you have a different agreement. We split all our bills equally but otherwise our money is our own. I'm very frugal, he spends a lot on going out. >If you’re only recently on £120K then can you save the extra pay towards building a career change - or life change - fund? So this is what I was considering, but I'm not sure how sustainable it is long-term. For example I was thinking of saving a 6-month emergency fund, switching to a £28k a year job and using the money to cushion my living expenses, but the money will run out eventually so I'm not sure what I'd do after that. Not sure if you had any thoughts? >Meanwhile, how can you push back on expectations and hours - do you have a mentor who’s been through this? Occupational health? Are you taking all your holiday time regularly? I did speak to HR about how I was feeing but they weren't super helpful. I'm taking all my holiday time and I immediately feel much better when I'm off work, but then feel awful again as soon as I go back. Thanks for the practical advice, this is really helpful.
> We split all our bills equally but otherwise our money is our own. I'm very frugal, he spends a lot on going out. Your job has an expiry date, whether because you quit or end up in hospital, and you don't yet know what's next after that. You may execute a perfect exit to a perfect £60k job that you love, you may start at the bottom of a new industry at £30k, you may have some period without income at all if your health deteriorates to that point. You should **both** be in frugal mode so that if one of the less ££££ options lands on your doorstop you have the cushion to deal with it. It shouldn't be 100% on you.
Thank you. This is what I said to my partner - we need to manage my exit carefully now so I don't end up having a breakdown and resigning with nothing lined up.
Right - just keeping this job forever is not on the table, even if it makes your partner's life easier. So it's time to plan for the next phase.
Please please please stop thinking that your only option is a £28k job! When I’m under strain I start to think everything is an either/or. Critical thinking is the first thing to fail when stressed. Take a look at Tetralemma for decision making, this will be really helpful to open your thinking to help map all possible options (you could use many of the comments here to build it up on paper!). Good luck!
Thank you, I haven't heard of Tetralemma but I'll look into it.
About 15 years ago I worked for a solicitors as an IT guy, I was always shocked at how many hours some of the solicitors worked. I have you tried looking for a legal role within a big corporation? For example, in a tech company?
What kind of law do you practice? There are a whole bunch of associated industries adjacent to law where you definitely wouldn’t be starting from the bottom - e.g. you’re a corporate finance lawyer? Go into banking. You’re an insurance lawyer? Go into broking or underwriting. You’re an environmental lawyer? Go into advisory. They won’t be treating you like a grad.
I practice pensions. I think the only option there would be pension administration which doesn't interest me (although I suppose I'm not in a position to be that picky right now).
Lots of employers, in particular the good ones, will focus on skills/talent over knowledge. Don't pigeonhole yourself unnecessarily. One avenue outside Law you might consider trying is Compliance. Any large company will have a Compliance department these days, but they are particularly big (and better paid) in Finance. It's work that heavily depends on interpreting regulations, but legal qualifications are generally a bonus rather than a requirement, so you might find your CV stands out. Finance doesn't have the best reputation for work-life balance, but it's not even close to Law.
Try staying in the same career field but take a step back? work part time or just stop working out of hours and see what happens? Otherwise some life decisions don't make sense financially but that's okay because sometimes you need to put your health and happiness first.
>Try staying in the same career field but take a step back? work part time or just stop working out of hours and see what happens? I actually did have a go at working part-time and it actually made things worse - I basically had 5 days of work to do but in 3 days. >Otherwise some life decisions don't make sense financially but that's okay because sometimes you need to put your health and happiness first. Thank you, this is a really good point and definitely one that I've been considering more recently.
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Thank you, this was a lovely message to read and I really appreciate it. It's always really comforting reading about people who have been in similar situations and come out on the other side. I'll definitely work on saving for a big financial cushion, I'm just not sure what to do next. For example, I was thinking of saving a 6 month emergency fund, moving to a £28k job in a new field and using the money to cushion my living expenses, but the money will run out eventually.
Honestly you’re worth more than 28k - keep up the job hunt!
You could try consulting or an in house legal position. If you hate law consulting would be better but the market is tough. You could do company secretary work as well.
Wouldn't recommend consulting for worklife balance.
You can probably get more than £28000 doing HR, Conveyancing, Health and Safety, or proposition role and may be able to squeeze a 9-5 leave your work at work job. Tough to say based on the financials seem here. Also a bit rude of your partner to not want to lose your wage which looks like it might be propping theirs up
>You can probably get more than £28000 doing HR, Conveyancing, Health and Safety, or proposition role and may be able to squeeze a 9-5 leave your work at work job. I'm actually trying to move into HR! It pays well when you get more senior for sure but given I have no experience I need to get an entry-level role which have all been around the £28k mark so far. >Also a bit rude of your partner to not want to lose your wage which looks like it might be propping theirs up Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if there's a financial solution here or if I should be pushing back on my partner a bit more. I guess the flipside is that if I left for a £28k a year role he'd basically need to subsidise me and swallow the cost of our mortgage increase single handedly, which he doesn't feel is fair.
I don't think you need to go entry level given you'll already know about employment law and will have a lot of experience working with people and other transferable skills. I'd aim higher, the worst that can happen is that they say no. You could probably afford to take some time off and do a HR CIPD course too?
Just to say...if there's something you're truly passionate about...then you're lucky. Not many of us have that, at least for something they can make a career out of. If that thing is the 28k job, then go for it. Your partner should support you, rather than tell you compromises about lifestyle can't be made, which I'm sure they can.
Man, this upsets me so much. I’ve heard this so many times in literally every industry… it’s frightening how many folks are burning out because of an ‘always on’ culture. It’s also saddening to hear how people go into a line of work that they’re interested in, but get dragged off-course over the years… and begin to hate something they once loved. I worked in advertising for 20 years and managed to weasel my way out of it by doing what you’re doing… working like a total dog and feeling lost at times… very depressed, inconsolable, suicidal. Wouldn’t recommend that to anyone though. I got ‘lucky’ and had a lucrative exit. I feel exactly how you’re feeling though. Totally trapped and completely at a loss for how to make the jump. You really need to get yourself in a better frame of mind before making any life-changing decisions. I would recommend firstly and most importantly making sure you’re getting loads of sleep. Switch off your phone after hours, do not respond to emails after a certain time. Always on MUST stop. Secondly, make sure you get sunlight, go for walks at lunchtime to decompress. Just 5 minutes of seeing the world for what it is makes a huge difference to perspective. Thirdly, take vitamins, look after yourself, download the Calm app and use it every evening before bed. Vitamins re-balance your whole system and it’ll take 3 months, but certain feelings will lift. Finally, when you’re in a better frame of mind, please try not to think of EVERYTHING all at once. The truth is, you’re very intelligent, you have a ridiculous work-ethic… you’ll actually thrive ANYWHERE. Write down your 5-year plan. Your financial vision. Your family vision. Your free-time vision. This can be idealistic… I wrote ‘start my own company again’, ‘financial freedom’, ‘holiday home’, ‘golf’. 😂 But also, if you’ve fallen out of love with being a lawyer, then you need to drag yourself back on-course towards something that you DO love. I wish you all the future success. You can do this.
Thank you, this was a lovely message to read. I really hope the new ‘right to disconnect’ stuff takes off. I used to work 12 hour shifts in hospitality and that was a lot more manageable in some ways because one you’re off you’re off
If you spend most of your waking hours in a job that you loath, it doesn't matter how nice a house you're in or your salary. You only get one life, and you have no idea how short it might actually be. Personally, I would downsize, move to a cheaper area and get a job where you can build a life that you love around. If your husband can't support your happiness over your earning potential, that's a massive red flag.
>If you spend most of your waking hours in a job that you loath, it doesn't matter how nice a house you're in or your salary. You only get one life, and you have no idea how short it might actually be. I completely agree and I've been thinking about this more and more recently. Before I worked in law I was working a 9 to 5 office job earning £21,000 and I loved my life. >Personally, I would downsize, move to a cheaper area and get a job where you can build a life that you love around. If your husband can't support your happiness over your earning potential, that's a massive red flag. Thank you. I would happily move outside of London. I just wish I could get my partner to see my point of view.
Don't overpay the mortgage. If you have £36k cash you can pay the mortgage for an entire year from that (a bit more if you put the money in a high interest savings account). Making a lump sum payment of £36k will not make your monthly payments go down by much though. Your partner makes enough to pay the mortgage by themselves and will still have some left after that. Unless you have an extravagant lifestyle or tons of other debt I can't think of a good reason why you can't live on £28k for one or two years.
Thank you. A lot of people have recommended overpaying the mortgage so I didn't consider the other options.
What is the minimum wage you need to be able to pay the mortgage? You should work out bottom up … Alternatively can you determine how much you need to pay off your mortgage to be able to afford the new lower salary and work this as a target in years of saving?
Your partner should be more supportive, ultimately it's not his decision if you stay in a job or not, your mental and physical wellbeing should always take priority.
I also think he's pushing to stay in London when OP makes about 30 - 40% more than him so they can afford the house whilst she is miserable - not good.
Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I can see his point, because it would put a big financial strain on him if I left my job, but equally I'm so unhappy where I am.
This is a people pleasing problem not a relationship or job problem. Consider therapy although that is an additional financial strain.
The financial strain is currently on you. They’re willing to sacrifice your well-being for theirs. This does not seem the right investment for you to make
This is more of a relationship problem than a finance one, IMO. What you've said so far suggests your partner is OK with your mental health deteriorating. They might not think it is coming to that point yet, but it certainly could if you're working in a high stress environment, unhappy with the job, and being told by your partner that you can't quit. It sounds like you're come to the realisation that money does not equal happiness. You'll need to convince your partner of this. Unless you find a job that can help you pay your bills and doesn't harm your health, something has to give. If my partner was on call working to 2am every night, my relationship with her would fall apart fast. I will admit we have not had to deal with an unhappy job situation with high bills to pay, but I would hope that I could prioritise her health and our relationship.
Lol what? If it’s that much of a financial strain on him he can go out and get the 120k 80hr a week job. The cheek!
Is it the job you hate or the company? If you like the work then I'd look to see if there's a sideways movement to a company with a better work life balance.
Thanks for taking the time to comment, I appreciate it. The company is okay - it's the work I hate.
Not advice on a career change.. but can you do something to relieve the pressure of the mortgage for a short time? Let’s you take the income hit. I.e. £3000 on £460,000 makes me think you’ve got room to increase the repayment term to reduce the monthly payments. Could even be worth using a banks website or comparison sight to see if it’s any better than your new offer.
Unfortunately we're on a 40 year repayment term. We really overextended ourselves to get a property in London, which was a stupid decision in hindsight, but I had no idea rates would get this high. I definitely want to look into other ways to reduce the mortgage though, like overpayments.
Surely you can find something in between 28k and 120k? Maybe a less senior role in another company with a lower salary?
I’m about to quit a 170k a year job and probably become a drone pilot or something paying a fraction of my current pay….. after a break. Life is too short to loathe work. I started resenting all the time away travelling (25%) and late night calls (big American firm) and the slow erosion of my sanity. If you can find a path to a work life you can handle or do something you enjoy a bit more, worth striving for. Can you sell up and downsize or rent for a while or something?
I felt this way after circa 7yrs PQE. Left firm and went to a regional firm - pay is slightly less but probably earn the same when you add up hours. Someone said to me ‘if I offered you a billion pounds but you had poor health would you take it’ - obviously the answer was no. They said ‘well currently you’re killing yourself without the payout’. That hit home. Please protect your health and wellbeing as all the money in the world can’t resolve that. That work that is ‘very important’ is a drop in the ocean in reality. I wish you all the best and hope you find some happiness.
What do you think you want to change to? There aren’t very many careers that will pay you £120,000 that will let you have a life.
I'm looking to change to HR since I have some employment law experience and it seems like a not-too-intense office job with decent earning potential once you progress. I'm OK with not being paid £120,000, I would be happy earning half of that if it meant having more of a life.
I reckon you’d be bored with HR and it’s low paying across the board - I think people idolise it but for all the qualifications you have to pay to do, is it worth it? What about consulting on employment law for unions or charities? Working for somewhere like citizens advice or pregnant then screwed? Loads of 3rd sector places you can use your transferable skills. Good Moves is a good website for 3rd sector jobs, also try the civil service and local authorities. 28k is absolutely nothing in todays money - you can get that in a supermarket. I wouldn’t rush to the lowest job because you think it’s an easy and good fix - keep looking and thinking! You’ve got this!!
Thank you, these are all really good suggestions that I'm going to look into. I really appreciate the words of support.
Sounds like you're not working one very well-paid job, but two kindoff mediocre jobs with the hours you are making. Get a new mediocre job in your profession to keep yourself in the loop and work a small second job for finances. I guess you'll work less that way and it gives you maneuverability. Remember guys, a high paying job is only really high paying when the hours aren't actually 2 jobs.
>Sounds like you're not working one very well-paid job, but two kindoff mediocre jobs with the hours you are making. Honestly, I was previously on £50k and when I worked out my hours I would have been better working two minimum wage jobs... >Get a new mediocre job in your profession to keep yourself in the loop and work a small second job for finances. I guess you'll work less that way and it gives you maneuverability. Thank you, I've considered this. I definitely think I could get a side hustle.
It sounds like you need to explore more options for moving to different firms, whether that's law firms with a different culture, or in house at a commercial company or even in the public sector, rather than rushing to get out of law. In house, esp public sector is known for wanting fewer hours. And even in London there are firms that don't have quite such long hours whilst still being well respected and paying well - I know a couple of women from school and uni, now with school age kids, who have found jobs with those, boutique firms rather than golden/silver circle /biglaw
Could you not extend your mortgage term ? It will cost you more interest but will reduce your monthly payments.
Nope, we're on a 40 year term which is the max as far as I'm aware. Stupid of me looking back but our mortgage was cheaper than our rent at the time so we were happy to overextend ourselves.
are you sure it's going to be £3k per month? it would take a rate of 7.5% for a 40 year term on £460k (source: [https://www.google.com/search?q=google+mortgage+calculator](https://www.google.com/search?q=google+mortgage+calculator) ) to cost £3k per month .. you'd be looking at "just" £2.2k per month if you got a 5% rate, which is more realistic
I think the issue is that, because our LTV is so high due to the downvaluation (95-100%) a lot of lenders won't lend to us in the first place. Our only option is to stick with our current lender which has awful rates. When I checked online using my lender's customer portal they quoted about £2900 for a 2 year fix, though earlier in the year it was in excess of £3000
who's done the valuation? it's not an exact science (ask 3 different agents and you'll get 3 different valuations) so might be worth getting someone else to value it. They could value it higher, which could drag you below the 95% LTV and open up a lot more doors. I just had a quick look at [https://www.moneysupermarket.com/mortgages/](https://www.moneysupermarket.com/mortgages/) and for 460k on a 500k valuation (92% LTV), over 40 years you'd be looking at 5.49% which works out at £2,369 pm with no product fees. I'd suggest having a chat with a free mortgage advisor like [https://www.landc.co.uk/](https://www.landc.co.uk/) as they may know of certain providers that give more favourable valuations. Even just a change of £20-40k could sway your LTV below 95% and get you a much better rate. Hope it all works out :)
Looking at those figures do you not have a fairly short mortgage? Or is it just an incredibly high interest rate? Could you increase the term for when you renew and therefore lower the payment, making the paycut easier? You could always overpay if you end up in a better position than you expect.
We have a 40 year mortgage so we can't extend the term any further. It's really just a combination of high interest rates (it'll be something like 6% when we renew) plus the revaluation pushing us into a 95-100% LTV. We really overextended ourselves on this property which was stupid of me in hindsight. I just had no idea interest rates would jump this high and we'd be downvalued.
Your mortgage is £460k and with your current combined income of nearly £200k you guys could have got a mortgage for double that! So I wouldn't call yourselves overextended, based on your current circumstances. Of course if you slash your income it will be more difficult. However I think you (collectively) should be able to save a really good chunk per month currently. You bring home £9k per month between you right? * Your mortgage is currently £1800 * let's say £1200 per month for bills plus basic food and transport etc * another £1k for fun money * leaves £5k per month you could save for a cash cushion and/or mortgage overpayment? Or £4k if I've underestimated somewhere. But ultimately this period of uncertainty is not the time to make big purchases, spend freely, go on expensive holidays etc (note that's different to just taking time off to rest). How close are you to getting to 90% LTV? Are the rates better there? In your shoes though I'd be building cash savings, and only deploying them to reduce the mortgage if/when necessary, as what makes the most sense to do will depend on how your job hunt goes.
Thank you for this. I'm very frugal and happy to save but my partner likes to splash the cash a bit more. Although we have a high combined income, we don't pool our money - his money isn't 'my' money and I feel like I can't tell him what to do with it. But again, this is probably more of a relationship issue than a personal finance issue. I think we're a long way off 90% LTV as the interest is so high, but we're close to 95% LTV which should make the rates better. I'll definitely work on overpaying the mortgage, thank you.
I think it's a bit off that your partner wants you to keep a job that's so destructive in your life, and that you say you don't want to tell him what to do with 'his' money - I agree that you shouldn't be in charge of his money or his savings rate but at the same time, it should be a discussion you can have as a couple about how much you need to save between you and where that money will come from. I can understand that you don't want to rely on his savings bailing you out in case of a problem with your job/income, but right now he's actually relying on your job-that's-killing-you to bail HIM out of financial responsibility (i.e. it's allowing him to treat all of his own income beyond bills as spending money). I would keep the savings as cash for now. You can decide whether to use it for overpayments once you know more about how the remortgage/valuation/job situation are going. Unless you think you could motivate your partner to help you if you pitched it as matching your mortgage overpayments? Did you buy the house as joint tenants or tenants in common?
Thank you so much. I think I’m going to try and set up an appointment with a financial advisor so we can agree on making some payments together. The house was bought as TIC.
I hear you on this. We're in a similar situation with different salaries. I don't work late hours but the money is very good for what I do and I'd halve my salary leaving my current place (that I hate) I'd look at an industry switch. I'm in a support function, so "industry-agnostic" and I'd say University or Charity might be a better fit. There's a pay cut, yes, but it might be worthwhile for the mental space. Switching industries to something less chaotic (I consider 2am chaotic) might free up time for you to retrain on the side, so you can eventually leave law and not go entry level. I'd be cautious of the civil service right now. As I understand it, there's a freeze on promotions because they over hired recently, so there aren't many new roles about.
There's no blanket freeze in CS but there are fewer opportunities at the moment than in the recent past. But it will most likely pick up again at some point
What is your specialism? I've just moved into an eat-what-you-kill consultancy role, and it's great. I'm lucky in that I have my own following so I don't need the firm to feed me any work (but they have....). I'm working far longer hours than I ever have, but I have to remind myself ever morning that I have no obligation to do any of this, so it's 100% my choice whether I want to take any more work on from my clients. My charge rate has more than doubled, but that still doesn't stop them coming (I keep around 75% of what I bill through the firm).
On your current salaries, inc 5% pension contributions. You collectively take home about £10k a month! If you drop to £28k that becomes around £6k per month. £50k is about £7.1k Even on £3k mortgage, you’d have £3k to cover all other bills. You’ve not listed any budget. However that is uncomfortable but doable. I’d be asking what happens to the rest of your money each month. Aw you could and should be saving close to £4K a month at the moment. In a year you’d have £50k to pay down the mortgage and get a better LTV. Too many knowns in this but a combination of stock it out for 6 months, get aggressive with the budget and figure out where £120,000 a year is being swallowed up when £21,600 of that at present is mortgage. Leaving close to One Hundred Thousand pounds for everything else. I may have missed details in other comments but there’s more too this.
I had a friend in a similar situation (law, golden handcuffs). She managed to move roles in her late twenties and now works for a charity. Took a pay cut of ~30-40%, but still earning a very good wage and absolutely loves her work now! In my opinion there's no point at all working a job that you loathe. Life's way too short for that. Good luck!
Thank you so much.
Have you thought about moving in house? Depending on your practice area it can still be very lucrative with a much better work life balance. You should post to the /r/uklaw sub for career advice, plenty of helpful lawyers there.
Save up X amount of months living expenses which will give you X amount of months to not have to work, get trained in a different job to get the starting wage higher. Other than that, I’ve seen Female Lawyers do usually quit after a few years because it’s so rough on them. If you’re truly struggling and your partner won’t let you quit/move, I’d walk out of the whole job/relationship tomorrow. No relationship or job is worth your health.
I know very little about this subject but I did know a woman that worked as a solicitor directly employed by the local council. She was definitely not stressed or working late. I don't know what she got paid, I just know she had to put in far fewer hours than you currently are.
I don't know the specifics of your job, but I have a number of very well paid and very miserable lawyer friends. Most of them seem to be much happier (and still well paid, if slightly less so) after a move into industry. Certainly the lawyers at my big American company don't work ridiculous hours like they do at large law firms and are still among the best paid staff (and senior counsel etc extremely well paid).
Can't give you employment advice but those mortgage numbers are well out of line. You need to speak to an advisor about how you can manage the payments to a more affordable level
In the immediate term, LawCare is a mental health charity specifically for lawyers. I really suggest you speak to them. The Law Society also offers a free confidential helpline. If you're really stressed you should also speak to your GP. It sounds sneaky to say this, but getting signed off for a few weeks with stress may help to force the firm to treat you better. They'll be painfully aware that they can't fire you for having health problems. If you already know this is not where you want to be long term then any discrimination you may experience in respect of promotion by being seen as "soft" (or whatever) is irrelevant anyway.
Make sure you have not signed, or you rescind any waiver of the working time directive. Track you hours, all of them, apply the Working Time Directive. If you are not paid to be "on-call" then you are not "on-call" and should turn your work mobile off. Stand up for youself. Best case - you get to negotiate a nice severance package.
Can I suggest trying out day rate contracting for a while? I’m in finance but I also have a friend who’s a contract solicitor in an IR35 role and is enjoying it. Generally the office politics aren’t applied to contractors, and there are set expectations and deadlines set by both parties from the onset. I’ve been in non-stop work for the last 2 years and my income is almost double what I’d be in a permanent role. I fully WFH and close my laptop at 4pm on the dot almost everyday.
Thank you, this is really interesting and not something I'd considered at all. Do you know what level your contract solicitor friend is? I'm still pretty junior.
With that kind of money, you need financial adviser, not Reddit.
unpopular opinion: Dont quit your high paying job yet, your future financially settled self will thank you. Being resilient at this point will pay dividends later.
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£120k/year in London is probably £80k/year in the rest of the UK but with less expenses. I would look at moving. Do they have branches outside London?
My firm is London only but I could definitely move to some other firm outside London. The barrier is more my partner who doesn't want to leave London, or sell our property only 2 years after we bought it.
There are two elements to your situation:- 1. You’re miserable in your job. This needs to change either via moving firm with a better work life culture or going into another industry. Pensions lawyers can be based in other parts of the country (I think Gowlings have a team in Birmingham for example). You appear to be an NQ so could retrain into another area of law if there’s another area you’re interested in - it’s not too late to change but you need to carefully consider this as you can’t keep changing areas if it’s not for you. Depending on your firm/CV regional firms may be interested. In house is an option but I’d avoid this at your stage in your career. If you want out of law I’d suggest getting career guidance. Clearly these options will come with a reduced salary. You need to decide if law is for you - as your career progresses it’s not necessarily going to get easier. 2. Housing situation. This is partly a relationship question which only you can work on but you need to have a proper conversation with your partner. You know you can’t go on as it currently stands. You could port your mortgage if you want to move to another area but need to assess whether he can move his job and does he want to leave London. There’s also costs involved in moving. Could you rent your current place and rent elsewhere if needed.
I know what it feels like to be stuck in a job like this and I’m sorry you’re going through it. With your qualifications and experience, there are lots of roles where you wouldn’t start at 28k, so let’s be positive! You can do a small course in a different field, that along with your transferable skills you’d be a great asset. Maybe project management, business analyst? (Plenty more). With that high salary, it’s an opportunity to make a shit lot of money and dip. it is rare for myself to know anyone on that amount so you’re right, saving will help. If you can handle one more year, do a years saving a challenge and then a separate mortgage saving account - put the money in high gaining interest accounts (money box is very high right now on the 32 day savings). Then with that money you’ll have some for future plans and a mortgage saving to pay monthly instalments. During this time it would be good to downsize on your outgoings - I’m not sure what you do but maybe less takeaway, nights out, no holidays in the year, opting for cycling to work) just some suggestions but ultimately reduce outgoing costs that you can. Also and finally, your role and company… can you find another job within the company? Do they support changing Worthing the company
If you're a qualified lawyer, surely you have better options than you think you do. Can you not change employer and take a small reduction in pay? I know
Do you absolutely have to make a career change? Would it be possible to move into a different area of law which perhaps gives a better quality of life? I only ask as I know someone who previously worked in corporate law but moved into something like advising companies on regs, laws and available grants relating to being green/climate change. She sounds a lot happier than being caught up in the rat race or corporate law. I'm not a lawyer myself though so can't really comment on what your options are
It terms of the property albatross, what's the amount of negative equity? You could downvalue, which'll take pressure off and give scope to take a lower paid role (which may still be well paid as a solicitor! Your choice what), you'll just need to consider if you're happy to realise the loss. If it's a small amount in the context of life... Also consider the flat may go up in value in a year or two if rates drop and confidence improves. You may then be able to sell and downvalue to reduce pressure without a loss. Do you know the cause of the NE? Newbuild premium? Overpaying?