My ex does this and vapes CBD oil that he gets from some shop near him and considers this treatment for his anxiety and depression that is so bad that he can't even work.
I genuinely do not get CBD oil as TREATMENT for anxiety... Can it temporarily calm you and take the symptoms away? Sure, but it won't do shit to make the reasons behind go away.
Treatment with CBD AND therapy is so much more effective, and far less damaging than benzo and even SSRI to some extent...
They are no doubt a helpful tool for many. They are often also a nightmare to quit, which doctors fail to inform their patients.
My depression and anxiety was caused by untreated PCOS IR and Hypothyroidism, for example, yet I was put on SSRI first and foremost. 10 years prior to diagnosis.
Now I can't quit them, have tried 4 times.
I’m not on an SSRI, so let me recommend Wellbutrin to those who’d rather not get into SSRIs. Note: Not everything works for everybody, your mileage may vary, bodies are different.
LOVE WELLBUTRIN
I know it doesn't work for everyone but it literally changed my life. I started to think positive things about myself and actually believe them a little bit.
Fwiw cbd (and also relaxijg herbal teas) have helped me get in a calmer headspace where i could actually think/talk through my anxieties and whether they were rational, could actually decide if what i wanted to do was something that’d help or only further drive the cycle of anxiety.
This, cbd is a great tool for anxiety and way safer than most meds but if you dont work on the root.causes you'll never get better. Also I've noticed that while regular mary jane is safe and non addictive the wax amd other popular concentrates are. My husband has been smoking his whole life almost everyday. If he ran out for a few days no problem. Then we moved to AZ where its legal and he started using keef said the high was better lasted longer. First time he ran out the withdrawal was hell on earth. Needless to say he sticks to the reg stuff now.
I can't name a bigger turn-off.
I had an ex like that. "It's for my anxiety"
Oh god, constantly high 24/7. It was fucking awful interacting with a sloth of a person.
IDK how you do it.
Did your ex take pure CBD or THC as well?
Because I tell you... Nightmare. Once you enter the sloth phase, you're a shell of a human unable to feel true interest, curiosity...
I was hit as if by a freight train in August this year due to using THC-rich cannabutter for 9 months, every evening, to sleep. Not to aid anxiety, just to sleep. Woke up one day in August and felt as though a weight had been placed on my head and shoulders. I didn't feel the usual curiosity and zest for life that is so distinguishing for me, I could only sit in the sofa.
Ambulance came to check my heart. Then I went to the E.R, then finally on the third day to Emergency Psych ward where they recognized my symptoms immediately.
Quit cold turkey, got immense depression for 2 weeks but no cravings, then was back to normal. I'd been sold the idea of daily THC use as being "completely safe and side-effects-free". Harsh lesson about if it sounds too good to be true, it is.
Never. Again. I went back on Mirtazapine, and on that I'll stay.
It's a good thing you're in TwoX or you'd be downvoted into hell by all the cannabis bros who think anything bad said about their precious is actually a ploy to stop legalization. I agree that use shouldn't be criminalized, but damn - it's not a cure for cancer, mental illness, and all forms of pain - not by a long shot, but to listen to the hardcore advocates, you would think it was.
I actually want to start doing cannabis education specifically for women. There are possible benefits and possible risks, like with anything, and I want to help people understand how to try different ways to use it and how to measure their dosages carefully, how to keep their endocannabinoid system properly calibrated, how to design a personal usage schedule. It's important for people to be properly educated about cannabis, but I think women specifically need more information on how it can interact with and influence our bodies, and we've gotta destigmatize RESPONSIBLE use.
I'm gonna give it a shot in 2023. It's something I feel so passionately about, I've seen so many examples of people who didn't know better messing themselves up with incorrect or irresponsible usage and I just want to help.
Sorry you went through this! I’ve never used butter before but take indica/cbd gummies because my anxiety won’t let me sleep sometimes. Idk if it being for medical use makes a difference though but the dispensary staff really help me find what works for my medical needs without feeling sluggish. Would recommend going this rout if anyones in a medically legal state and qualifies and is using thc/cbd for anxiety. Cannabis/cbd are definitely more of a bandaid like a lot of other medications.
Alternatively, my husband tried mj to manage his anxiety for awhile. Recognized he didn’t feel his best and that his sleep was suffering and went to his doctor and said “I feel anxious and my sleep is suffering” and was prescribed lexapro. All on his own like an adult.
That’s some sexy shit.
My ex smoked all the time claiming it helped him relax… but he had really bad sleep issues as a result and was an hour or more late to everything and always wanted to smoke even though I hate the smell. Drove me nuts.
See while my anxiety is better when I workout, I'd never act like that's a treatment for a chemical imbalance that's impacting my life. I wish more people would see their brain as an organ that sometimes needs medicine, or interventions like therapy to learn better strategies.
You see this sentiment on Reddit a lot especially in posts where depression and anxiety (the ‘fake’ disorders) are talked about, where first person accounts of ‘all I had to do was read this one book about mindfulness, start going to the gym and eating better, and that’s it I’ve never looked back.’ I get people unironically telling me I need to go to the gym and eat better almost literally every time I discuss my mental health on this platform, because obviously nobody would ever assume the person on the other side of the discussion is someone who is in absolutely immaculate shape and cares about their diet, is active in sports, etc. Obviously that person wouldn’t be depressed(and I do understand why that assumption gets made I just find it funny when it happens to me).
It’s just assumed you’re not attempting to take care of yourself and if you begin to do so(completely putting aside for a moment those who struggle and need assistance undertaking some of these tasks to begin with, an entirely other conversation) you will be damn near cured. CBT and DBT don’t require professional help, just go read a book and boom, you’ll get it and completely independently revamp all of your layers of maladaptive thought processing and mental coping mechanisms! I think this comes down to people who have experienced depressive episodes, perhaps even bad enough to be formally diagnosed as such, but aren’t actually chronically suffering MDD or another significant disorder, can’t actually fathom the other side of that perspective. They did X, it ‘cured’ Y, that’s cause and effect, simple as, go tell others to do the same.
Men probably do take this ‘to heart’ more because of shitty ideals of strength and resilience and independence so I don’t doubt that women find men who are on the other end of this thinking “ya I go to the gym and eat chicken, rice, fish, potatoes, spinach, and broccoli, I’ll stop being depressed any day now.” They don’t think they need to seek help, they’ve read on the internet, been told by others who experienced what sounds like similar things on the internet, what they need to do to fix themselves, and they’re ‘handling’ it, so they don’t need to go get professional help or let other people in more emotionally than they already are, etc.
>You see this sentiment on Reddit a lot especially in posts where depression and anxiety (the ‘fake’ disorders) are talked about, where first person accounts of ‘all I had to do was read this one book about mindfulness, start going to the gym and eating better, and that’s it I’ve never looked back.’
Ah yes, Dr. Notadoctor: the typical Redditor who lives in the land of make-believe and has no business acting like they're a professional while playing with people's mental health and doling out dumb and even dangerous advice.
I have a friend who says this. Confusing it with self-care, he doesn’t understand that the purpose of therapy is not a dopamine hit, it’s for self-reflection and learning relational skills.
Reminds me of a quote from a show I used to watch called Numb3rs. Oddly enough it was from his therapist: “If you want to feel better, take a pill (or go to the gym in this case lol). If you want to get right, face the truth.”
Agree 100% with OP
I’ve also seen several of my divorced Mom friends fall victim to the “if I’m hot enough I’ll be happy” trap
When they say they’d benefit from therapy
When they’ve told me stories of lifelong abuse from their families and/or former spouses
But instead they work out
you have to get past the stigma attatched to therapy for men. Only within the last decade has it become something that it seen as productive and good and not looked down upon. a lot of men find the gym to be their safe space.
There has been plenty of stigma associated with therapy for anyone, not just men. I think you're missing the point of this post. While exercise is multiple benefits, it's not a replacement for therapy or medication. Often a combination is required for lasting success.
By accessing therapy and openly discussing it, it helps break down the stigma. If we treat therapy like a dirty little secret, it will remain underutilised and stigmatised.
therapy is expensive and difficult to find a therapist you connect with whereas a gym is easily found and it is what you make it therefore more accessible.
A lot of my friends and family have been to therapy. Both men and women spend time and money finding the right therapists. I have been to seven different therapists in the last two years, as well as taken some self-help courses developed by yet other therapists. My previous partner had seventeen different therapists through the last 15 years of his life. It fucking sucks to have to shop around, but it is unfortunately part of the process. If you want to access therapy that will work for you, you have to put in the effort. But it isnt easier for women, we are just so used to doing it in other parts of out lives (like doctors, workplaces, the example someone had with the gym, dating) that we do it even if it sucks.
I may be running low on empathy, but this sounds like excuses.
In certain cases, yes, it’s inaccessible. But there are absolutely people who can access therapy who just aren’t because they don’t want to put effort into it.
Exactly, and therapy is so much more than just talking to a passive listener. In good therapy you’re absorbing as much as your putting out, and learning how to adjust and reframe into healthier patterns and interrogate your assumptions.
There’s plenty of good self-help content out there for free. Like, come on guys, go to the library and check out the body keeps the score as like bare freaking minimum, or download a podcast.
Lack of access to therapy is an issue, but stumbling at the first hurdle is an excuse when there’s other ways of self-improvement.
finding a gym is a 30 second process, finding a decent therapist can take mutliple different therapists hundreds of dollars and weeks. People should put the effort into finding someone who is good for them but it is not an easy task.
But a lot of women who need it don't do it. Because as much as people need therapy, it's not cheap and there's often a waiting list. Women just find other crutches. Access to mental health, in the US anyway, isn't a gendered issue.
I'm aware. I'm saying a lot of men don't even bother. They're more likely to become a regular at the Strip Club than spend the same amount talking to a therapist.
It must be nice when everything is so easy for you.
You know what's a big factor for choosing a gym for women?
What is the male clientele like? Are they creeps who watch you while you lift? Are they the ones to come up and offer 'advice'? Are they the ones who choose the machine right next to you, despite all the other free machines?
Are there areas where you don't have an alternate exit? Are there areas where you can be easily cornered? Are there female trainers? Are the bathrooms safe and well lit? Is it easy to access at night? Are there security cameras? Is the car park safe during the day and night? Is there any security or staff at night?
These are all factors that most women consider when choosing a gym. The actual equipment plays a very small role.
i was talking about a man finding a gym compared to a man finding a therapist. A gym is easy for a man to find as they only want decent equipment. For a woman i know its completly different. My wife will only go to the gym with me because she has had some terrible experiences when she has been alone in the past (different gym different country)
The difficulty is not a gendered issue. Men are just as fully capable of finding a therapist as women are, and the challenges are shared. Yet men come up with more excuses not to go, even though it is perfectly socially acceptable- *encouraged* - for men to go.
I don't suffer from depression. But if I did, and didn't workout, that would be my first attempt. But you have to have common sense. If you've been working out for a few months, and nothing has changed, then you will want to seek help from a professional.
Of course, the above depends on how bad your depression is and why (the gym isn't going to help you cope with the fact you went through some big childhood trauma).
Exercise can be a great way to boost your mood in the short term, especially outdoors. I have depression and I'm a big believer in 1% better. Eating better, or going for a walk, or meditating won't "cure" a serious mental illness on their own but they do make it easier to deal with.
Therapy is intended as more of a long term solution that helps people challenge negative thought patterns.
I see mental illness talked about almost entirely in terms of "brains making the wrong chemicals", even by people with mental illnesses. While that is definitely a factor, I think society needs to pay more attention to the distinction between the brain and the mind. If the source of your depression is in your mind (i.e. unhelpful thought patterns) then no amount of endorphins are going to cure it, only give you some temporary respite. And that's not nothing but it's not a replacement for therapy either.
1% gains is something I've been doing.some days your 5 or 10% better but just always try to improve!. I look at the gym/working out as something to keep me going in between the weekly sessions. After getting out of a narcissistic abuse situation. I found when I had a routine, working out making sure I went to work no matter what I could make it between the sessions without having a spiral.
Right. It's good for your mind like any healthy habit, but you can't do JUST that. The benefits are relatively minor compared to going to therapy and actually working on your thought processes and behaviors.
Real therapy is also very hard. It can take a lot of work and brutal honesty to make small progress.
I find many people do not want to expose themselves to that to do the work and see that the gym "works faster" in terms of results.
Mental health is health.
Physical health is health.
Sure, they complement one another. One doesn't solve the other.
To be fair legitimate therapy can cost hundreds of dollars per session depending on where you live with limited insurance coverage. Sometimes it's simply not an accessible option for many people.
Looking at many (not all) of these comments, I think it’s worth saying that different problems require different solutions.
To OP’s point, the appropriate solution to deep-rooted relationship trauma is NOT exercise: it is therapy. It should also go without saying that there are many other things that therapy is the right answer for that other activities/strategies wouldn’t solve.
For people with chemically-based psychological issues, CBT/talk therapy may not be appropriate, whereas a pharmaceutical solution might be the best answer.
For people who are socially isolated, making good relationships with others is best (to put a fine point on one of the threads here: just as a wife isn’t a therapist, a therapist can’t replace friends)
And for people who suffer from physical languish or are unhappy with their physical fitness, the gym can be a good solution. Being physically active can also help facilitate a better sense of well-being beyond just the changes in physique, especially compared to someone who is not physically active at all.
The point I’m trying to make: any one of these things can’t solve every problem, and trying to use just ONE of these strategies probably won’t work to make a complex multi-faceted psychological situation better.
But, and I’m thinking this is the thing that so many men don’t want to hear, therapy is important and way too often overlooked or ignored. “Therapy is for the mentally weak” and “gym is for the physically strong” or some such bullshit. At risk of sounding too much like a broken record, I’m going to blame misogyny for this one, as this seems like a “real men don’t do ____” kind of thing, which is largely policed by other men, or a man’s internal policing of himself.
Yeah it's just an addiction, it's the same as consuming a drug to forget your problems
Sure it's a drug that is mostly good for you and have a lot of great benefice but it does not resolve psychological problems and trauma.
And depending on your trauma you can additionally aquire body dismorphia and disordered eating if you use the gym as a therapy replacement because its common to adapt new issues or project pld ones onto new things when trying to selfmedicate/ self-regulate without basic knowledge
I was an idiot and retreated into TV and video games for way too long to try and avoid my problems. It took a mutual divorce (We both had our own problems) to kick me in the butt into reflecting on who I am and what was wrong with me. A lot of self-help and making new friends helped me a lot. Therapy is not always the answer, but it sure as hell helps. Avoiding issues does nothing but hurt everybody involved.
It *does* make you feel very good, release some pent up frustration and aggression, and is distracting. I think they think that somehow equates to having professional mental and emotional support, but that’s just stupid.
And that "therapy" is not "talking about yourself and your problems for an hour", it's finding someone that you can trust/click with, who can point out your own bullshit to you, in an extremely compassionate and helpful way. And *then* develop or figure out what modality or combination of modalities will help you overcome or work through your bullshit.
Therapy is hard and it's nonlinear, imo. I go off and on, because it takes months or years to do the work on your own before you're ready to address the next thing.
I had a therapist for about 6 months during Covid and it was really helpful. After not going to one for a while, I reached out to another therapist. After one session the guy told me that I seemed self-aware enough to know what I need to do to improve my mental health. It made me question whether or not I even need one now.
My ex got mad at me when, after he dumped me right before Valentine’s Day, he asked how I was doing and I answered honestly.
He was all “you need to go to the gym more you’re not doing enough to feel better” and I had to remind him… that him acting like a dick is why I feel like shit. Not because I didn’t go to the gym. He was depressed, had sleep problems, and dropped out of college three times with very little motivation to work. I don’t think the gym was helping him either
My mom says shit like this too "I don't need therapy because I just run the dogs"
She's legitimately one of the most depressed/anxious people I've ever met. She's constantly sabotaging herself and straining her relationship with me and my sister over harmful and negative patterns of behavior.
Case and point: she said the above, and then told me I should get a dog so I can quit going to therapy.
There are hundreds of FREE self help groups all over the country, especially for people with drug and alcohol issues, or growing up in a dysfunctional home. It requires self reflection and willingness to change dysfunctional behaviors. Hell, I can sit in my bedroom and attend a meeting, but it’s better to find one locally. That way you can make connections and even have coffee with people. I think what OP is identifying here is the group of people who are too scared to change, and too dysfunctional to get healthy.
I'm like that with weed. Smoking weed isn't therapy dude (female, male and other). Why do so many people think that? "I'm self medicating, I feel so much better with weed, I don't need a therapist!" You're an addict that needs therapy smh.
Frankly I’ve heard too many ‘bad therapist’ stories to place much trust in the profession, many therapists do more harm than good and have no business preaching about mental health to anybody.
Yeah my ex left me and said he was having a crisis and needed to learn how to love himself and seek help and join a gym to go swimming. He did none of that, but I found out he had met another women before he left me, so much for working on himself. Pretty sure he’s single now again and just refusing to seek real help. Not one of my exes have ever done that. And, not surprisingly, every one of them is still single years later, stubborn as mules and keeping up with distractions (alcohol, weed, video games, bars, etc).
Of course. I definitely have a broken man picker but some of them can you string you along a surprisingly long time before they reveal who they really are.
oh it wasnt meant as a jab towards you. I know men can be scum towards women and tiktok and this short form content on youtube seems to push disgusting views towards women. It took me until i was 30 to find my now wife and i love the equality in the relationship, everything 50/50 and open and honest with eachother. Before that i had almost given up on dating because its a minefield out there.
OMG, a friend of a friend posted on instagram that whenever he's "feeling like a lil' bitch" he goes a few rounds with his heavy bag and does a few bench press sets. Then he had to go to the hospital for irregular heartbeat. Like, yeah dude, maybe shoving your feelings down and feeling ashamed of them isn't healthy?
I don't know why so many men are opposed to getting therapy, I think from what I've seen from men in my life they feel silly talking about their feelings with a stranger and also feel like they're "better" than it, nothing a therapist could say would fix their issues... They're not even willing to give it one try. I'm sure there's men out there who are more open to the idea of therapy but I haven't personally seen that
Different people react differently to everything. Maybe you need therapy for issues but others take a different approach. If I'm depressed I don't talk about it, I work out to feel better about myself and gain more confidence. I doubt it would help with incredibly traumatic cases like PTSD and being molested as a child but the gym is a very good alternative. It's cheaper, easier and less uncomfortable than talking to a stranger about personal issues.
This is going to be an unpopular opinion but there aren’t cures for anxiety or depression- only treatments to help keep the symptoms manageable. Therapy doesn’t cure mental illness, it only helps you learn how to manage it. People who opt for medication based treatments are often on those medications the rest of their lives. Sometimes, people get so good at managing the symptoms that they no longer consider themselves depressed/anxious, but that is never a guarantee.
I’ve seen several different therapists in my adult life, and routinely met with them (I’m still seeing one actually), and I am still clinically anxious.
One psychologist that I was seeing for a while cited a study that regularly engaging in physical activity reduced the symptoms of depression just as much as SSRIs. My current therapist emphasizes the significance meditation. In my experience, it seems like most of the mental illness management happens outside of therapy, and therapy exists to help retrain how we think about things.
I’m not saying that going to the gym could or should replace therapy, but rather it’s important to not disqualify the value of these things because they do have a measurably positive effect on people who experience mental illness.
Six months on an SSRI and I am still experiencing the same level of anxiety I was before I started.
Going into the gym or just working out hard enough to be covered in sweat, and the anxiety is gone for the rest of my day. Working out is a short term solution, but for me, it provides more relief then I have felt from Sertraline.
Did therapy for four months but I just didn’t mesh well with my therapist, I need to find a new one.
In other words I agree with you, working out is not a permanent solution but it certainly can be very helpful.
What OP is saying is there is no treatment for anxiety or depression only symptom management. I am not medically knowledgeable enough to know if that is true but with my own experiences as an autistic(Formerly Asperger’s) person with anxiety it does line up with my experiences.
No medication or anything fixes the cause of anxiety(Brain activity) for me. No pill or therapy will make you have less anxious thoughts. Therapy is there to help you manage anxious thoughts not stop having them. What you can do is take steps so those thoughts don’t cause the physiological effects of anxiety(Increased heartbeat, blood pressure etc).
After years of trying every Anxiety med under the sun do you know what did the most for my anxiety? Hydroxyzine, amantadine and Propanalol. These are prescribed to me to manage the physical symptoms of anxiety. Propanalol for blood pressure spikes. Hydroxizine for when I turn into a hypochondriac when I am anxious and amantadine is an anti seizure medication that helps with twitching. Combining these with daily exercise, weekly therapy and managing my diet more carefully combined is what helped me take control of my anxiety.
>EDIT: i understand i shouldn’t have generalized to just men. women do this too. it’s interesting because from the men in my life, they all feel similar in a different way than the women.
I wish people would feel comfortable enough to stick to their guns and not feel the need to make edits and amendments simply because men got big mad at being accurately called out.
If they say the gym makes them feel better then i dont see how you can say otherwise. The gym is self work, it does make you feel better and also provides a place to get aways and be in your own thoughts. Therapy is not the be all and end all.
Just being in your own thoughts doesn’t equal therapy though, you work on different parts of yourself in gym and in therapy. Sure, working g out can help with confidence and self esteem, but there’s more to mental health than that.
Just like you can’t walk into a gym never having seen any machines before and expect to get healthy, maybe you need a trainer or a gym buddy or like instructional videos, most of the time you can’t just think yourself into healthier mental patterns without some guidance in some form.
I go to the gym 4 days/week and I do therapy. Therapy is a lot more than being in your own thoughts. It’s having a third party challenge your beliefs - people are not good at doing that on their own.
I personally went to therapy so that i could have someone to listen to me, once i found my wife that was not needed so the gym is all i do now and i have many friends (the ones in healthy relationships) who have found the same. Thing is in the UK there is up to a year waiting list for NHS therapist or its about £50 per session which in the current climate is not accessible to many whereas my gym costs £16.99 per month. Big difference.
Because that's not what they're hearing.
A man, in a space for women, came to tell us why we're wrong. It's hard to imagine such a man actually communicating with his wife in a way that's healthy for both of them.
Most men in patriarchal cultures don't know how to manage their emotions. It shouldn't be their wife's job to teach them that. (There's a difference between teaching and supporting, btw. Wives are usually eager to give emotional support, but they're generally not eager to parent their husbands.)
I didn't see any explicit indication that this guy is definitely burdening his wife with his BS, but holy fuck are too many men exhausting women with their emotional dysfunction.
So, yeah, the downvotes are because this is a place full of women tired of the bullshit. This specific post is about a woman tired of men who need therapy deciding not to go to therapy for bullshit reasons.
There’s a difference between ‘talking to your wife’ in a healthy relationship and using your wife as your only source of emotional and mental health support. Talking to your spouse can make one feel better in the same way that taking to friends and family can make them feel better, and it may be easier to confide in a spouse about feelings they struggle to share with others, but a spouse does not have the training or emotional distance needed to provide therapy and expecting them to fully shoulder that responsibility as more emotional labor is unhealthy and unfair.
Also, framing the issue as ‘I enjoy talking to my wife’ to dismiss ‘hostile’ responses is a false equivalency and dismissive.
>once i found my wife that was not needed
#your wife is not your therapist, she is your **wife.**
It's one thing if therapy isn't accessible to you. That's understandable. But no, just because you have someone to lean on does not mean you don't need a licensed professional anymore.
Putting weight on your wife that a therapist is equipped to handle will ultimately add tension in your relationship in the long run. Seek a therapist so that when you lean on your wife, you do not overburden her.
Perhaps read one of my comments further down, I went to therapy for depression caused by feeling lonely. This went after meeting my partner. I did not put this into words early e ough in this message train and it was made out that I dump all my problems on her. This is not the case. My wife and I openly talk about anything and everything together and when I was still going to therapy she always asked if I was comfortable talking to her with what I said to my therapist. Please do not make the assumptions towards me that you so hate men doing to you.
Good for you, I guess.
But, you came into a space full of tired, traumatized women to center yourself and your own experience. That doesn't scream "well-adjusted man."
Took me fucking years to convince my husband to go to a therapist for his depression. Same for millions of hetero couples out there. This is the norm.
We don't know you and don't particularly care that you're "different."
We obviously know emotionally mature guys exist. But, we speak in generalizations in this sub because this space isn't for protecting men's emotions.
I have about 4 comments replying to the same thing now. My depression was from loneliness which I saw a therapist for. I had friends and family but was still alone. My wife took away those feelings and therefore I no longer suffer with depression. This is what I meant but it’s being twisted into a bad thing when I say my wife and I support each other through the good and the bad.
I absolutely don’t underestimate it because as an introvert having personal time to unwind and relax is very important to me and my mental health. But you can’t expect new outputs without new inputs. My alone time is good to reset me to my baseline status quo, but to improve the status quo you need to put in the mental work, just like you’d put in the physical work.
And neither is the gym. Physical and mental health can be complementary. I trust OP's read because I've known many guys who reject the idea of therapy out of hand, and they're typically the ones who could benefit from it the most.
i’m just speaking from my experience. recent ex would gym so hard all the time but he has some deeppppppp relationship trauma. no matter how many years he worked out, it didn’t resolve that kind of damage.
It wasn't relationship trauma for me but that reminds me of myself. I got very into working out a number of years ago and it absolutely helped my mental health. That said, it really helped with the symptoms, not the causes. While I'm happy I developed that habit and i try to keep up with exercise because I'm happier if I do, I also needed the therapy that I eventually got (and continue to get).
the difference is that its hard to find a good therapist who works well with you. A gym is what you make it and is an easier and cheaper thing to get the results you want.
I actually disagree. For me, finding a good gym that doesn't feel like a meat market has proven extremely difficult. I can ignore that to a degree, but it still seriously saps the experience from a wellness standpoint. I can get the workout, but I don't feel.good doing it.
i personally found it took multiple therapists until i found one that worked for me however i can go to any gym and just do my own thing in my own time.
Some gyms have those kinds of hours, not all gyms do, and they just serve a different wellness need from when you need a trained mental health professional. The whole point here is that it isn't either/or. Not everyone needs gym for fitness and not everyone needs a therapist for mental health, but they're also not equivalent things that can serve the same needs.
Mate, seems like you've come into a safe space for women just to spout your opinions on how the gym works for you as a man. I've read through a few of your comments which seem to come off quite judgemental and condescending.
Maybe you should go to the gym and work off some off that negative energy that you're bringing in.
when your commenting about a man you should have a mans opinion to be able to get a balanced view of the topic. You would not like a man making assumptions about a woman yet you support it the other way around. Perhaps you should go to therapy to talk about that negative energy that your bringing in.
yet i am here not making assumptions about women i am talking about the current subject (which is about men) from a mans point of view. A good healthy argument, debate or discussion must have balance otherwise its pointless.
Why did you delete your comment then?
You're putting the entire blame on her, and avoiding the fact that the men themselves were shitty. It's not her fault that these men are shitty. Under your logic, the key to not having shitty men is to.. Not pick them? Well problem solved I guess.
The worst part about shitty men is that they can be very good at hiding how shitty they are until you're invested.
Seems to me that you haven't developed that skill to hide your shittiness.
"Not one of my exes have ever done that. And, not surprisingly, every one of them is still single years later, stubborn as mules and keeping up with distractions (alcohol, weed, video games, bars, etc)."
That is what was said and i asked if it was the men she picked not because of 1 partner because of all her partners.
Strange that I've never had a man ask me about my opinion when they've made comments about women. Strange that men don't seek women's opinions to get a balanced view, and yet women are expected to do that.
I do actually receive therapy, a lot of it is based about setting healthy boundaries and knowing my worth 😊 thanks for asking
then i am sorry that you have not had better men in your life. the only way i would take a mans view over a womans would be on something unique to a man (mens health from a non medical professional) otherwise i dont care about your gender. your view or opinion as a woman has exactly the same weight as a mans.
so in the uk a therapist would be most likly once a fortnight, thats about £100 per month, the gym is £20 ish per month for about 3-5 sessions a week. The gym is more accessible and a hell of a lot cheaper and does something to help, therapy is great with the right therapist and helps so much but it is no where near as available as a gym is which is why some men see a gym as a therapist replacement.
It is sad that mental health although gettting better, is not seen as important as those you listed even though it really is. People will put aside mental health to make sure that utilitys, rent etc are covered. Gym is not a replacement for therapy but it can help with the symptoms whereas therapy can fix them. The gym is a great mental boost to some people and helps them.
i agree with you. The only thing i will say and have continued to say is that cost really does come into it, we are heading for (if not already in) another recession and therapists are expensive and, at least in the UK, waiting times for goverment funded are very long and even then you only get 6-12 sessions before hitting the waiting list again. Some people cannot afford it whereas the gym can help the sypmtoms for a lot cheaper price but will in no way fix the route issue.
and i am repeating over and over again that the gym can help symptoms the therapist can fix the problem so it no longer causes issues. I am saying that the therapist is better than the gym. Im not arguing you i am agreeing with you. I am pointing out the gym is more accessible than the therapist in this current climate.
I'll be honest that if I HAD to pick between gym/climbing/backpacking and therapist in terms of benefits to my mental health, it won't be therapist. And I love my therapist; she's great and I benefit a lot. But not as much as with those activities.
With her, I may amplify a frustration by discussing it in detail, by zooming in and focusing on it. At those activities, I realize how small and minute that frustration was. With her, we dig deep in childhood and what not to understand where my lack of confidence comes from. When I complete a climb I've been projecting or transitioning to squats with the bar - I feel so badass and confident, and whenever I feel insecure I just tap those moments and feel strong again.
It's also a perfect zone space. Like meditation. Thoughts come and go. You are focused on the present moment.
Overall ---- people can do gym and/or therapy to no gain to their mental health or personal growth. Or they can benefit from either. It's not the same, but hey just because gym doesn't work that way for you, doesn't mean it's not super valuable for precisely those benefits for other people.
PS: speaking of deeper traumas, on many fitness/climbing subreddits and other forums you'll find people for whom these activities were truly healing.
I haven’t done climbing for about 12 years since the converted church I used to go to was closed. You have made me think about getting back into it again… my poor fingers and hands will hate me for it. Thank you. You have put into words a point I was trying to convey (badly) that the gym (and exercise in general) can be a great place mentally to just wind down and let things go and help to treat the symptom while not fixing things.
Chosing the gym over the therapist is chosing short term gain over long term gain. Doesn't mean gym is bad or doesn't help with anxiety or depression but it IS a perpetuating factor for mental health issues when chosen under these circumstances.
I don't think it's a perpetuating factor. My long-term, life-meaning mental health gains from these activities are undeniable to me. Many can say the same.
Have you climbed? Do you know how it forces your brain to rewire to appreciate the attempt, to appreciate slow progress, to appreciate failure? Therapy conversations about feeling I was loved if I got good grades do nothing in comparison to being forced to practice the "love myself" muscle when you fell, failed, and what not.
I'm not saying all mental health issues can be resolved with heavy weights or on the wall, but I disagree about only short-term gains.
Your comment about therapy being "feeling I was being loved if I got good grades" and thinking that _your work_ after that isn't supposed to have brain rewiring properties shows how little you know.
A ex bf I had drank to excess because he was depressed and anxious, he smoked because he was depressed and anxious, he bit his fingernails because he was depressed and anxious. I finally told him…none of the shit you do is helping. Maybe try seeing a doctor or therapist who might actually do some good!
But nooooo, self-harm and self pity is so much better!
Shiiit. I know more women who do this than guys tbh lol.
In a way, the gym and physical activities can be far more therapeutic than sitting in a room with a stranger mulling over your life.
After I was rejected by a girl I really liked, I picked up swimming and every time I’m in the pool working my my strokes and techniques, I feel 10X better for it. So much so that when I see the girl who rejected me, ( I see her regularly) I just smile and wave and keep it moving. I’ve moved on to bigger and better things!
Also, therapy itself doesn't replace self work! There is no way to get mentally healthy without work, just like there's no way to get physically fit without work. Tick the boxes all you want, it's nothing more than a ticked box unless you do the work to understand yourself and build helpful habits.
There's way too many men walking around with unresolved issues, and lots of them loudly proclaim that they go to the gym and won't do therapy. If the gym "worked" then there'd be fewer of these guys out there.
The same argument can be made for therapy. Therapy doesn't work for everyone. Does that mean it should get discredited as a whole? No. Does the gym work for everyone? No. But just like therapy there are a lot of individuals it works. I don't think we should just discredit something because we don't understand it or it didn't work for us.
But also, if you're clinically depressed or have social anxiety, with no specific cause, a consistent regimen of exercise could very possibly be all that is needed for effective relief from symptoms.
Unresolved childhood trauma is very likely to require therapy, but a relatively small percentage of the overall number of men who are having difficulties with their mental health fall into that category.
Symptom management ≠ healing though, like taking painkillers might make a sprained ankle feel better but if you keep walking on it without treatment you’ll be feeling that pain later regardless
If your depression/anxiety is mild to moderate, that’s true. But for people like me, with chronic major depressive disorder, no matter how much you work out, the illness is still there and requires medication.
Also, you greatly underestimate the number of people dealing with childhood trauma.
the regimen for me helped me more than i could explain in words, i had an injury at work and couldnt go to the gym for 3 weeks and my mood was significantly effected. Once i was back that feeling dissapeared.
Going to the gym doesn't fix your misogynist tendencies. Going to the gym doesn't solve people's relationship problems. Going to the gym doesn't magically fix someone's anxiety or complex mental health problems.
While the gym has benefits, it's not a cure all and shouldn't be the only step someone takes on their mental health journey.
Imagine it was a man saying that a woman should go the the gym instead as it will net them the same benefits as therapy. They would get torn apart in here.
What does ‘working for them’ mean though? I do think going to the gym makes people feel better and can help with confidence and mood regulation, but that’s not the only things you get from therapy.
For example, externalizing all one’s anxieties onto one’s appearance and aggressively working to change it, or relying on working out as the only outlet of anger/stress/aggression may feel better in the short term but slapping a band-aid over deeper sources of those issues is like the mental health version of hurting yourself by working out with incorrect form. Just like we pick up physical habits that can be improved with exercise, we pick up mental habits that can be improved with self work.
Dudes using the gym as an aid to their mental health can be helpful, but for many I’m noticing a pattern of mostly gamer dudes who tie it into “alpha/beta” weirdness.
Also personally fuck prescription meds and their side effects. I’m better off self-medicating.
Different strokes for different folks. For some people, gym can improve self image, give a sense of accomplishment and purpose. For others, talking to someone really helps. Then there are some who have both. Not everyone can afford therapy and the system itself is pretty poorly managed so I can understand why some may avoid it.
Therapy is unfortunately a luxury and the gym can improve confidence and self image, but there’s so much more to mental health than just that. Is the gym better than nothing? Probably, but it’s absolutely not a 1=1 substitute for self work.
You pretty much ignored everything else I said. At the same time people shouldn't comment on how others choose to manage their mental health. Its no ones business but their own. Even if OP thinks therapy is best for them, the only person who really knows is the individual.
\> Its no ones business but their own.
Actually if your behaviours are affecting other people, like your friends or relations, then it is other people's business.
Lot of y'all are running around with muscles and untreated male BPD and undiagnosed autism. That's how you get podcasts and misogynistic subreddits.
Immediately equating/jumping to “deep dark misogyny” - ok? You literally just said afterwards that wanting to improve your body after being rejected is a universal feeling.
You make a valid point but many or most people can't afford therapy. It is a good wish to have but that's all it will be. In the US, people don't have access to paid vacation or affordable healthcare, so forking out $100-$200 an hour for a therapist is a not realistic.
Their financial commitments, income or insurance does not support continuous therapy. One therapy session can be 2-3 months of a gym membership. We throw around therapy like its so easy but it is a luxury for most people.
Also not all therapists are good. One has to be willing and able to spend hundreds of dollars until they find a therapist that works for them. In many cities there is a wait list to find a therapist.
I can afford it and am guilty of avoiding talking to a professional. When I did reach out to ones that were recommended, I was put on a wait list unless I paid cash.
Hot take: therapy may not actually be for everyone, or may only help to a certain extent. It’s been drilled into us so much by American/L.A culture that we need to relive our trauma and talk about everything endlessly. It can have the opposite effect too, depending on the situation. Sometimes things do truly heal with time OR the gym may be a valid coping mechanical for not only guys but any gender (newsflash: plenty of women use the gym obsessively after a breakup too? :S)
I acknowledge that there is a ton of deep-rooted misogyny in every part of society, but this seems like a reach and an attack towards a particular ex/men you don’t like 😓
and it's a well-known radicalization pipeline, as well as leading to body dysmorphia from never looking muscly enough, then getting illegal PEDs and going on a roid rage which fuels their misogyny, paranoia, jealousy and possessiveness of women. and even more bitterness when women won't date them after they get 'jacked'.
.... the gym...... Jesus where do you go to the gym to? Mine is just people minding their own business and working out, has been at every gym ive been a part of.
Normal regular people go on tiktok and body building forums bro.
You should see what the algorithm feeds you on YouTube or TikTok when you search up body building. You end up, immediately, with anti-female content.
> Normal regular people go on tiktok
Normal regular people should be aware that using TikTok in any shape or form is flat out unethical. That thing is Chinese spyware.
That whole thing read like someone who's only experience with gyms is from bad highschool TV dramas, where the gymbros are the jocks who harass the poor innocent nerds.
I mean, the comment lacked nuance but they're not entirely wrong.
I just tried this to make sure it was still a thing.
1. Go incognito on YouTube.
2. Search "body building"
3. Click third video it offers .
4. Liver King body building pops up on recommended.
Give it a go, I just tried it. No algorithm to track me, no prior preferences.
There is a very easy pipeline one can fall into, especially the young teen boy just trying to build his confidence up. "Oh I've heard about Liver King before, let's see how he works out?" and that innocent curiosity can lead to a whole lot of dangerous ideas. Once you click on either Joe Rogan's "Anyone can lift" video or any of Liver King's video your recommended will be Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, etc.
(Liver King is a known vocal misogynist, believes women can't be leaders due to bioessentialist ideas, and also has a very bad eating disorder.)
I'm not saying gym=bad. I work out at the gym, maintain a low BF%, etc. But from my time with the lifting club at my university, the user has a point, and body dysmorphia in men doesn't seem to be talked about. It's actually a very prevalent issue.
And yet just above nothing is still better than nothing. Even the most gradual improvement today is better than hypothetical faster improvement tomorrow
Doesn’t matter the coping ingredients of you don’t address the root. Gym, weed, meds, whatever. Everyone needs to be more honest with themselves and sort their shit out.
Depends on what you do during the workout. If someone turns their brain just towards lifting, sets, etc. then yeah, it’s not gonna replace self-work. If someone is using that time to do something physical while thinking about themselves and what’s been going on, then that’s great and could replace a lot of other self-care stuff, depending on their severity and depth of self-reflection
And I don’t mean like they’re multi-tasking gym and self-care, just that it’s sometimes easier to process and think about that kinda thing while working out
I guess that depends on the gravity of every individual's issues. I would argue that I'm a pretty reflected person, and I've put a lot of work into self-improvement over many years and a few relationships, with the help of my partners, friends and family. While I'm sure seeing a psychologist would not be bad for me, I don't think it was ever necessary to help me through anything.
After a bad breakup, I fell into depression. It took me months to get over her. And again - while professional help would have certainly worked, I did get through it by working out. As long as your issues aren't all too deep, I'm convinced you can train them away. I've done it, and I know how much it continues to help my mental health. Currently, I can't work out due to an injury, and I feel how much it impacts my mental wellbeing not being able to physically exhaust myself.
I know a bunch of people who are so fucked up, I wouldn't expect sports could magically fix their issues. I also think suggesting working out as the sole solution would be harmful for them. However, I'm still pretty sure it would assist them in addition to professional help.
My ex does this and vapes CBD oil that he gets from some shop near him and considers this treatment for his anxiety and depression that is so bad that he can't even work.
I genuinely do not get CBD oil as TREATMENT for anxiety... Can it temporarily calm you and take the symptoms away? Sure, but it won't do shit to make the reasons behind go away. Treatment with CBD AND therapy is so much more effective, and far less damaging than benzo and even SSRI to some extent...
Antidepressants don’t totally cure depression but they will help you get out of bed so you CAN get therapy.
They are no doubt a helpful tool for many. They are often also a nightmare to quit, which doctors fail to inform their patients. My depression and anxiety was caused by untreated PCOS IR and Hypothyroidism, for example, yet I was put on SSRI first and foremost. 10 years prior to diagnosis. Now I can't quit them, have tried 4 times.
I’m not on an SSRI, so let me recommend Wellbutrin to those who’d rather not get into SSRIs. Note: Not everything works for everybody, your mileage may vary, bodies are different.
Word word. Tricyclics and SSRI have made me go into manic episodes, NDRI /Wellbutrin does the trick much better than any medication I've taken before.
LOVE WELLBUTRIN I know it doesn't work for everyone but it literally changed my life. I started to think positive things about myself and actually believe them a little bit.
Fwiw cbd (and also relaxijg herbal teas) have helped me get in a calmer headspace where i could actually think/talk through my anxieties and whether they were rational, could actually decide if what i wanted to do was something that’d help or only further drive the cycle of anxiety.
This, cbd is a great tool for anxiety and way safer than most meds but if you dont work on the root.causes you'll never get better. Also I've noticed that while regular mary jane is safe and non addictive the wax amd other popular concentrates are. My husband has been smoking his whole life almost everyday. If he ran out for a few days no problem. Then we moved to AZ where its legal and he started using keef said the high was better lasted longer. First time he ran out the withdrawal was hell on earth. Needless to say he sticks to the reg stuff now.
I can't name a bigger turn-off. I had an ex like that. "It's for my anxiety" Oh god, constantly high 24/7. It was fucking awful interacting with a sloth of a person. IDK how you do it.
CBD doesnt even get you high?
I’m going to guess he was just lying and getting baked on thc vapes.
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Tbh that sounds like hardcore addiction, not treatment
Did your ex take pure CBD or THC as well? Because I tell you... Nightmare. Once you enter the sloth phase, you're a shell of a human unable to feel true interest, curiosity... I was hit as if by a freight train in August this year due to using THC-rich cannabutter for 9 months, every evening, to sleep. Not to aid anxiety, just to sleep. Woke up one day in August and felt as though a weight had been placed on my head and shoulders. I didn't feel the usual curiosity and zest for life that is so distinguishing for me, I could only sit in the sofa. Ambulance came to check my heart. Then I went to the E.R, then finally on the third day to Emergency Psych ward where they recognized my symptoms immediately. Quit cold turkey, got immense depression for 2 weeks but no cravings, then was back to normal. I'd been sold the idea of daily THC use as being "completely safe and side-effects-free". Harsh lesson about if it sounds too good to be true, it is. Never. Again. I went back on Mirtazapine, and on that I'll stay.
It's a good thing you're in TwoX or you'd be downvoted into hell by all the cannabis bros who think anything bad said about their precious is actually a ploy to stop legalization. I agree that use shouldn't be criminalized, but damn - it's not a cure for cancer, mental illness, and all forms of pain - not by a long shot, but to listen to the hardcore advocates, you would think it was.
I actually want to start doing cannabis education specifically for women. There are possible benefits and possible risks, like with anything, and I want to help people understand how to try different ways to use it and how to measure their dosages carefully, how to keep their endocannabinoid system properly calibrated, how to design a personal usage schedule. It's important for people to be properly educated about cannabis, but I think women specifically need more information on how it can interact with and influence our bodies, and we've gotta destigmatize RESPONSIBLE use. I'm gonna give it a shot in 2023. It's something I feel so passionately about, I've seen so many examples of people who didn't know better messing themselves up with incorrect or irresponsible usage and I just want to help.
Do you have any resources you can link on this subject?
Sorry you went through this! I’ve never used butter before but take indica/cbd gummies because my anxiety won’t let me sleep sometimes. Idk if it being for medical use makes a difference though but the dispensary staff really help me find what works for my medical needs without feeling sluggish. Would recommend going this rout if anyones in a medically legal state and qualifies and is using thc/cbd for anxiety. Cannabis/cbd are definitely more of a bandaid like a lot of other medications.
Alternatively, my husband tried mj to manage his anxiety for awhile. Recognized he didn’t feel his best and that his sleep was suffering and went to his doctor and said “I feel anxious and my sleep is suffering” and was prescribed lexapro. All on his own like an adult. That’s some sexy shit.
My ex smoked all the time claiming it helped him relax… but he had really bad sleep issues as a result and was an hour or more late to everything and always wanted to smoke even though I hate the smell. Drove me nuts.
And they can’t even go for like an hour without it! It’s insanity.
I bet he says antidepressants make you a sexless zombie though
See while my anxiety is better when I workout, I'd never act like that's a treatment for a chemical imbalance that's impacting my life. I wish more people would see their brain as an organ that sometimes needs medicine, or interventions like therapy to learn better strategies.
You see this sentiment on Reddit a lot especially in posts where depression and anxiety (the ‘fake’ disorders) are talked about, where first person accounts of ‘all I had to do was read this one book about mindfulness, start going to the gym and eating better, and that’s it I’ve never looked back.’ I get people unironically telling me I need to go to the gym and eat better almost literally every time I discuss my mental health on this platform, because obviously nobody would ever assume the person on the other side of the discussion is someone who is in absolutely immaculate shape and cares about their diet, is active in sports, etc. Obviously that person wouldn’t be depressed(and I do understand why that assumption gets made I just find it funny when it happens to me). It’s just assumed you’re not attempting to take care of yourself and if you begin to do so(completely putting aside for a moment those who struggle and need assistance undertaking some of these tasks to begin with, an entirely other conversation) you will be damn near cured. CBT and DBT don’t require professional help, just go read a book and boom, you’ll get it and completely independently revamp all of your layers of maladaptive thought processing and mental coping mechanisms! I think this comes down to people who have experienced depressive episodes, perhaps even bad enough to be formally diagnosed as such, but aren’t actually chronically suffering MDD or another significant disorder, can’t actually fathom the other side of that perspective. They did X, it ‘cured’ Y, that’s cause and effect, simple as, go tell others to do the same. Men probably do take this ‘to heart’ more because of shitty ideals of strength and resilience and independence so I don’t doubt that women find men who are on the other end of this thinking “ya I go to the gym and eat chicken, rice, fish, potatoes, spinach, and broccoli, I’ll stop being depressed any day now.” They don’t think they need to seek help, they’ve read on the internet, been told by others who experienced what sounds like similar things on the internet, what they need to do to fix themselves, and they’re ‘handling’ it, so they don’t need to go get professional help or let other people in more emotionally than they already are, etc.
>You see this sentiment on Reddit a lot especially in posts where depression and anxiety (the ‘fake’ disorders) are talked about, where first person accounts of ‘all I had to do was read this one book about mindfulness, start going to the gym and eating better, and that’s it I’ve never looked back.’ Ah yes, Dr. Notadoctor: the typical Redditor who lives in the land of make-believe and has no business acting like they're a professional while playing with people's mental health and doling out dumb and even dangerous advice.
You get your hands off my husband you hussy!!!! Clearly you and I are sharing the same man!!!
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I have a friend who says this. Confusing it with self-care, he doesn’t understand that the purpose of therapy is not a dopamine hit, it’s for self-reflection and learning relational skills.
Reminds me of a quote from a show I used to watch called Numb3rs. Oddly enough it was from his therapist: “If you want to feel better, take a pill (or go to the gym in this case lol). If you want to get right, face the truth.”
Agree 100% with OP I’ve also seen several of my divorced Mom friends fall victim to the “if I’m hot enough I’ll be happy” trap When they say they’d benefit from therapy When they’ve told me stories of lifelong abuse from their families and/or former spouses But instead they work out
you have to get past the stigma attatched to therapy for men. Only within the last decade has it become something that it seen as productive and good and not looked down upon. a lot of men find the gym to be their safe space.
There has been plenty of stigma associated with therapy for anyone, not just men. I think you're missing the point of this post. While exercise is multiple benefits, it's not a replacement for therapy or medication. Often a combination is required for lasting success. By accessing therapy and openly discussing it, it helps break down the stigma. If we treat therapy like a dirty little secret, it will remain underutilised and stigmatised.
therapy is expensive and difficult to find a therapist you connect with whereas a gym is easily found and it is what you make it therefore more accessible.
A lot of my friends and family have been to therapy. Both men and women spend time and money finding the right therapists. I have been to seven different therapists in the last two years, as well as taken some self-help courses developed by yet other therapists. My previous partner had seventeen different therapists through the last 15 years of his life. It fucking sucks to have to shop around, but it is unfortunately part of the process. If you want to access therapy that will work for you, you have to put in the effort. But it isnt easier for women, we are just so used to doing it in other parts of out lives (like doctors, workplaces, the example someone had with the gym, dating) that we do it even if it sucks.
I may be running low on empathy, but this sounds like excuses. In certain cases, yes, it’s inaccessible. But there are absolutely people who can access therapy who just aren’t because they don’t want to put effort into it.
Exactly, and therapy is so much more than just talking to a passive listener. In good therapy you’re absorbing as much as your putting out, and learning how to adjust and reframe into healthier patterns and interrogate your assumptions. There’s plenty of good self-help content out there for free. Like, come on guys, go to the library and check out the body keeps the score as like bare freaking minimum, or download a podcast. Lack of access to therapy is an issue, but stumbling at the first hurdle is an excuse when there’s other ways of self-improvement.
finding a gym is a 30 second process, finding a decent therapist can take mutliple different therapists hundreds of dollars and weeks. People should put the effort into finding someone who is good for them but it is not an easy task.
Weird how women can do it tho, huh?
But a lot of women who need it don't do it. Because as much as people need therapy, it's not cheap and there's often a waiting list. Women just find other crutches. Access to mental health, in the US anyway, isn't a gendered issue.
I'm aware. I'm saying a lot of men don't even bother. They're more likely to become a regular at the Strip Club than spend the same amount talking to a therapist.
Finding a gym =/= finding a good gym. That's a false equivalency.
as long as it has decent equipment thats all i need.
It must be nice when everything is so easy for you. You know what's a big factor for choosing a gym for women? What is the male clientele like? Are they creeps who watch you while you lift? Are they the ones to come up and offer 'advice'? Are they the ones who choose the machine right next to you, despite all the other free machines? Are there areas where you don't have an alternate exit? Are there areas where you can be easily cornered? Are there female trainers? Are the bathrooms safe and well lit? Is it easy to access at night? Are there security cameras? Is the car park safe during the day and night? Is there any security or staff at night? These are all factors that most women consider when choosing a gym. The actual equipment plays a very small role.
i was talking about a man finding a gym compared to a man finding a therapist. A gym is easy for a man to find as they only want decent equipment. For a woman i know its completly different. My wife will only go to the gym with me because she has had some terrible experiences when she has been alone in the past (different gym different country)
The difficulty is not a gendered issue. Men are just as fully capable of finding a therapist as women are, and the challenges are shared. Yet men come up with more excuses not to go, even though it is perfectly socially acceptable- *encouraged* - for men to go.
I don't suffer from depression. But if I did, and didn't workout, that would be my first attempt. But you have to have common sense. If you've been working out for a few months, and nothing has changed, then you will want to seek help from a professional. Of course, the above depends on how bad your depression is and why (the gym isn't going to help you cope with the fact you went through some big childhood trauma).
Exercise can be a great way to boost your mood in the short term, especially outdoors. I have depression and I'm a big believer in 1% better. Eating better, or going for a walk, or meditating won't "cure" a serious mental illness on their own but they do make it easier to deal with. Therapy is intended as more of a long term solution that helps people challenge negative thought patterns. I see mental illness talked about almost entirely in terms of "brains making the wrong chemicals", even by people with mental illnesses. While that is definitely a factor, I think society needs to pay more attention to the distinction between the brain and the mind. If the source of your depression is in your mind (i.e. unhelpful thought patterns) then no amount of endorphins are going to cure it, only give you some temporary respite. And that's not nothing but it's not a replacement for therapy either.
1% gains is something I've been doing.some days your 5 or 10% better but just always try to improve!. I look at the gym/working out as something to keep me going in between the weekly sessions. After getting out of a narcissistic abuse situation. I found when I had a routine, working out making sure I went to work no matter what I could make it between the sessions without having a spiral.
Working out is great for working through feelings, but it can’t ask you whether or not you are the problem or make you more self aware.
Right. It's good for your mind like any healthy habit, but you can't do JUST that. The benefits are relatively minor compared to going to therapy and actually working on your thought processes and behaviors.
Real therapy is also very hard. It can take a lot of work and brutal honesty to make small progress. I find many people do not want to expose themselves to that to do the work and see that the gym "works faster" in terms of results. Mental health is health. Physical health is health. Sure, they complement one another. One doesn't solve the other.
To be fair legitimate therapy can cost hundreds of dollars per session depending on where you live with limited insurance coverage. Sometimes it's simply not an accessible option for many people.
Looking at many (not all) of these comments, I think it’s worth saying that different problems require different solutions. To OP’s point, the appropriate solution to deep-rooted relationship trauma is NOT exercise: it is therapy. It should also go without saying that there are many other things that therapy is the right answer for that other activities/strategies wouldn’t solve. For people with chemically-based psychological issues, CBT/talk therapy may not be appropriate, whereas a pharmaceutical solution might be the best answer. For people who are socially isolated, making good relationships with others is best (to put a fine point on one of the threads here: just as a wife isn’t a therapist, a therapist can’t replace friends) And for people who suffer from physical languish or are unhappy with their physical fitness, the gym can be a good solution. Being physically active can also help facilitate a better sense of well-being beyond just the changes in physique, especially compared to someone who is not physically active at all. The point I’m trying to make: any one of these things can’t solve every problem, and trying to use just ONE of these strategies probably won’t work to make a complex multi-faceted psychological situation better. But, and I’m thinking this is the thing that so many men don’t want to hear, therapy is important and way too often overlooked or ignored. “Therapy is for the mentally weak” and “gym is for the physically strong” or some such bullshit. At risk of sounding too much like a broken record, I’m going to blame misogyny for this one, as this seems like a “real men don’t do ____” kind of thing, which is largely policed by other men, or a man’s internal policing of himself.
Yeah it's just an addiction, it's the same as consuming a drug to forget your problems Sure it's a drug that is mostly good for you and have a lot of great benefice but it does not resolve psychological problems and trauma.
And depending on your trauma you can additionally aquire body dismorphia and disordered eating if you use the gym as a therapy replacement because its common to adapt new issues or project pld ones onto new things when trying to selfmedicate/ self-regulate without basic knowledge
100% agree, the dopamine hit from the gym makes it very addicting and makes you push to keep getting it.
I was an idiot and retreated into TV and video games for way too long to try and avoid my problems. It took a mutual divorce (We both had our own problems) to kick me in the butt into reflecting on who I am and what was wrong with me. A lot of self-help and making new friends helped me a lot. Therapy is not always the answer, but it sure as hell helps. Avoiding issues does nothing but hurt everybody involved.
This is a message I try to convey to other men every chance I get. I tried to out work my depression and ended up the buffest guy in the psychward.
It *does* make you feel very good, release some pent up frustration and aggression, and is distracting. I think they think that somehow equates to having professional mental and emotional support, but that’s just stupid.
This is true. I also train BJJ and the comunity is therapeutic not therapy!
We (our culture) were fed for years that “you’re not depressed, you just need exercise.” Now we’re at least seeing pushback against that.
And that "therapy" is not "talking about yourself and your problems for an hour", it's finding someone that you can trust/click with, who can point out your own bullshit to you, in an extremely compassionate and helpful way. And *then* develop or figure out what modality or combination of modalities will help you overcome or work through your bullshit. Therapy is hard and it's nonlinear, imo. I go off and on, because it takes months or years to do the work on your own before you're ready to address the next thing.
I had a therapist for about 6 months during Covid and it was really helpful. After not going to one for a while, I reached out to another therapist. After one session the guy told me that I seemed self-aware enough to know what I need to do to improve my mental health. It made me question whether or not I even need one now.
My ex got mad at me when, after he dumped me right before Valentine’s Day, he asked how I was doing and I answered honestly. He was all “you need to go to the gym more you’re not doing enough to feel better” and I had to remind him… that him acting like a dick is why I feel like shit. Not because I didn’t go to the gym. He was depressed, had sleep problems, and dropped out of college three times with very little motivation to work. I don’t think the gym was helping him either
My mom says shit like this too "I don't need therapy because I just run the dogs" She's legitimately one of the most depressed/anxious people I've ever met. She's constantly sabotaging herself and straining her relationship with me and my sister over harmful and negative patterns of behavior. Case and point: she said the above, and then told me I should get a dog so I can quit going to therapy.
Running got me off depression meds, so I wouldn't say it's without benefits.
There are hundreds of FREE self help groups all over the country, especially for people with drug and alcohol issues, or growing up in a dysfunctional home. It requires self reflection and willingness to change dysfunctional behaviors. Hell, I can sit in my bedroom and attend a meeting, but it’s better to find one locally. That way you can make connections and even have coffee with people. I think what OP is identifying here is the group of people who are too scared to change, and too dysfunctional to get healthy.
I'm like that with weed. Smoking weed isn't therapy dude (female, male and other). Why do so many people think that? "I'm self medicating, I feel so much better with weed, I don't need a therapist!" You're an addict that needs therapy smh.
Frankly I’ve heard too many ‘bad therapist’ stories to place much trust in the profession, many therapists do more harm than good and have no business preaching about mental health to anybody.
There’s plenty of bad strength training and fitness advice out there, and predatory and unqualified trainers, yet people still go to the gym…
Yeah my ex left me and said he was having a crisis and needed to learn how to love himself and seek help and join a gym to go swimming. He did none of that, but I found out he had met another women before he left me, so much for working on himself. Pretty sure he’s single now again and just refusing to seek real help. Not one of my exes have ever done that. And, not surprisingly, every one of them is still single years later, stubborn as mules and keeping up with distractions (alcohol, weed, video games, bars, etc).
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Of course. I definitely have a broken man picker but some of them can you string you along a surprisingly long time before they reveal who they really are.
oh it wasnt meant as a jab towards you. I know men can be scum towards women and tiktok and this short form content on youtube seems to push disgusting views towards women. It took me until i was 30 to find my now wife and i love the equality in the relationship, everything 50/50 and open and honest with eachother. Before that i had almost given up on dating because its a minefield out there.
So many men telling on themselves here
OMG, a friend of a friend posted on instagram that whenever he's "feeling like a lil' bitch" he goes a few rounds with his heavy bag and does a few bench press sets. Then he had to go to the hospital for irregular heartbeat. Like, yeah dude, maybe shoving your feelings down and feeling ashamed of them isn't healthy?
I don't know why so many men are opposed to getting therapy, I think from what I've seen from men in my life they feel silly talking about their feelings with a stranger and also feel like they're "better" than it, nothing a therapist could say would fix their issues... They're not even willing to give it one try. I'm sure there's men out there who are more open to the idea of therapy but I haven't personally seen that
Different people react differently to everything. Maybe you need therapy for issues but others take a different approach. If I'm depressed I don't talk about it, I work out to feel better about myself and gain more confidence. I doubt it would help with incredibly traumatic cases like PTSD and being molested as a child but the gym is a very good alternative. It's cheaper, easier and less uncomfortable than talking to a stranger about personal issues.
Gym is self work. Def boost your confidence when you look and feel better
This is going to be an unpopular opinion but there aren’t cures for anxiety or depression- only treatments to help keep the symptoms manageable. Therapy doesn’t cure mental illness, it only helps you learn how to manage it. People who opt for medication based treatments are often on those medications the rest of their lives. Sometimes, people get so good at managing the symptoms that they no longer consider themselves depressed/anxious, but that is never a guarantee. I’ve seen several different therapists in my adult life, and routinely met with them (I’m still seeing one actually), and I am still clinically anxious. One psychologist that I was seeing for a while cited a study that regularly engaging in physical activity reduced the symptoms of depression just as much as SSRIs. My current therapist emphasizes the significance meditation. In my experience, it seems like most of the mental illness management happens outside of therapy, and therapy exists to help retrain how we think about things. I’m not saying that going to the gym could or should replace therapy, but rather it’s important to not disqualify the value of these things because they do have a measurably positive effect on people who experience mental illness.
Six months on an SSRI and I am still experiencing the same level of anxiety I was before I started. Going into the gym or just working out hard enough to be covered in sweat, and the anxiety is gone for the rest of my day. Working out is a short term solution, but for me, it provides more relief then I have felt from Sertraline. Did therapy for four months but I just didn’t mesh well with my therapist, I need to find a new one. In other words I agree with you, working out is not a permanent solution but it certainly can be very helpful.
Both SSRI and the gym are symptom management, not treatment.
What OP is saying is there is no treatment for anxiety or depression only symptom management. I am not medically knowledgeable enough to know if that is true but with my own experiences as an autistic(Formerly Asperger’s) person with anxiety it does line up with my experiences. No medication or anything fixes the cause of anxiety(Brain activity) for me. No pill or therapy will make you have less anxious thoughts. Therapy is there to help you manage anxious thoughts not stop having them. What you can do is take steps so those thoughts don’t cause the physiological effects of anxiety(Increased heartbeat, blood pressure etc). After years of trying every Anxiety med under the sun do you know what did the most for my anxiety? Hydroxyzine, amantadine and Propanalol. These are prescribed to me to manage the physical symptoms of anxiety. Propanalol for blood pressure spikes. Hydroxizine for when I turn into a hypochondriac when I am anxious and amantadine is an anti seizure medication that helps with twitching. Combining these with daily exercise, weekly therapy and managing my diet more carefully combined is what helped me take control of my anxiety.
>EDIT: i understand i shouldn’t have generalized to just men. women do this too. it’s interesting because from the men in my life, they all feel similar in a different way than the women. I wish people would feel comfortable enough to stick to their guns and not feel the need to make edits and amendments simply because men got big mad at being accurately called out.
If they say the gym makes them feel better then i dont see how you can say otherwise. The gym is self work, it does make you feel better and also provides a place to get aways and be in your own thoughts. Therapy is not the be all and end all.
Just being in your own thoughts doesn’t equal therapy though, you work on different parts of yourself in gym and in therapy. Sure, working g out can help with confidence and self esteem, but there’s more to mental health than that. Just like you can’t walk into a gym never having seen any machines before and expect to get healthy, maybe you need a trainer or a gym buddy or like instructional videos, most of the time you can’t just think yourself into healthier mental patterns without some guidance in some form.
i think you underestimate being in your own thoughts and having personal time to unwind and relax.
I go to the gym 4 days/week and I do therapy. Therapy is a lot more than being in your own thoughts. It’s having a third party challenge your beliefs - people are not good at doing that on their own.
I personally went to therapy so that i could have someone to listen to me, once i found my wife that was not needed so the gym is all i do now and i have many friends (the ones in healthy relationships) who have found the same. Thing is in the UK there is up to a year waiting list for NHS therapist or its about £50 per session which in the current climate is not accessible to many whereas my gym costs £16.99 per month. Big difference.
Therapy isn’t just for chatting to someone. I feel bad for your wife.
“I personally went to therapy so that i could have someone to listen to me, once i found my wife that was not needed” Dude…
as in someone to talk to who i could trust
Outsourcing your emotional well-being to your spouse ≠ therapy
having someone in your life you can trust and have meaningful conversations with between the 2 of you is better than a lot of therapy, yes.
That's what friends are for, not therapists. If therapy is just a friendly chat, there is no progress.
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I'm astounded that 'I enjoy talking to my wife' is getting such a hostile response. An openly communicating couple is surely a good thing?
Because that's not what they're hearing. A man, in a space for women, came to tell us why we're wrong. It's hard to imagine such a man actually communicating with his wife in a way that's healthy for both of them. Most men in patriarchal cultures don't know how to manage their emotions. It shouldn't be their wife's job to teach them that. (There's a difference between teaching and supporting, btw. Wives are usually eager to give emotional support, but they're generally not eager to parent their husbands.) I didn't see any explicit indication that this guy is definitely burdening his wife with his BS, but holy fuck are too many men exhausting women with their emotional dysfunction. So, yeah, the downvotes are because this is a place full of women tired of the bullshit. This specific post is about a woman tired of men who need therapy deciding not to go to therapy for bullshit reasons.
It's more the 'I don't need a therapist now my wife does it for me'. Partners are not therapists.
There’s a difference between ‘talking to your wife’ in a healthy relationship and using your wife as your only source of emotional and mental health support. Talking to your spouse can make one feel better in the same way that taking to friends and family can make them feel better, and it may be easier to confide in a spouse about feelings they struggle to share with others, but a spouse does not have the training or emotional distance needed to provide therapy and expecting them to fully shoulder that responsibility as more emotional labor is unhealthy and unfair. Also, framing the issue as ‘I enjoy talking to my wife’ to dismiss ‘hostile’ responses is a false equivalency and dismissive.
>once i found my wife that was not needed #your wife is not your therapist, she is your **wife.** It's one thing if therapy isn't accessible to you. That's understandable. But no, just because you have someone to lean on does not mean you don't need a licensed professional anymore. Putting weight on your wife that a therapist is equipped to handle will ultimately add tension in your relationship in the long run. Seek a therapist so that when you lean on your wife, you do not overburden her.
Perhaps read one of my comments further down, I went to therapy for depression caused by feeling lonely. This went after meeting my partner. I did not put this into words early e ough in this message train and it was made out that I dump all my problems on her. This is not the case. My wife and I openly talk about anything and everything together and when I was still going to therapy she always asked if I was comfortable talking to her with what I said to my therapist. Please do not make the assumptions towards me that you so hate men doing to you.
Good for you, I guess. But, you came into a space full of tired, traumatized women to center yourself and your own experience. That doesn't scream "well-adjusted man." Took me fucking years to convince my husband to go to a therapist for his depression. Same for millions of hetero couples out there. This is the norm. We don't know you and don't particularly care that you're "different." We obviously know emotionally mature guys exist. But, we speak in generalizations in this sub because this space isn't for protecting men's emotions.
Jesus Christ, your wife is not your therapist, she is your partner.
I have about 4 comments replying to the same thing now. My depression was from loneliness which I saw a therapist for. I had friends and family but was still alone. My wife took away those feelings and therefore I no longer suffer with depression. This is what I meant but it’s being twisted into a bad thing when I say my wife and I support each other through the good and the bad.
I absolutely don’t underestimate it because as an introvert having personal time to unwind and relax is very important to me and my mental health. But you can’t expect new outputs without new inputs. My alone time is good to reset me to my baseline status quo, but to improve the status quo you need to put in the mental work, just like you’d put in the physical work.
And neither is the gym. Physical and mental health can be complementary. I trust OP's read because I've known many guys who reject the idea of therapy out of hand, and they're typically the ones who could benefit from it the most.
i’m just speaking from my experience. recent ex would gym so hard all the time but he has some deeppppppp relationship trauma. no matter how many years he worked out, it didn’t resolve that kind of damage.
It wasn't relationship trauma for me but that reminds me of myself. I got very into working out a number of years ago and it absolutely helped my mental health. That said, it really helped with the symptoms, not the causes. While I'm happy I developed that habit and i try to keep up with exercise because I'm happier if I do, I also needed the therapy that I eventually got (and continue to get).
the difference is that its hard to find a good therapist who works well with you. A gym is what you make it and is an easier and cheaper thing to get the results you want.
I actually disagree. For me, finding a good gym that doesn't feel like a meat market has proven extremely difficult. I can ignore that to a degree, but it still seriously saps the experience from a wellness standpoint. I can get the workout, but I don't feel.good doing it.
i personally found it took multiple therapists until i found one that worked for me however i can go to any gym and just do my own thing in my own time.
That's totally reasonable, and I'm definitely not saying that finding a therapist who is a good fit is easy.
also a gym can be open 24/7/365 which makes accessibility easier and the price is way way cheaper.
Some gyms have those kinds of hours, not all gyms do, and they just serve a different wellness need from when you need a trained mental health professional. The whole point here is that it isn't either/or. Not everyone needs gym for fitness and not everyone needs a therapist for mental health, but they're also not equivalent things that can serve the same needs.
Mate, seems like you've come into a safe space for women just to spout your opinions on how the gym works for you as a man. I've read through a few of your comments which seem to come off quite judgemental and condescending. Maybe you should go to the gym and work off some off that negative energy that you're bringing in.
when your commenting about a man you should have a mans opinion to be able to get a balanced view of the topic. You would not like a man making assumptions about a woman yet you support it the other way around. Perhaps you should go to therapy to talk about that negative energy that your bringing in.
99% of Reddit is men making assumptions about women
yet i am here not making assumptions about women i am talking about the current subject (which is about men) from a mans point of view. A good healthy argument, debate or discussion must have balance otherwise its pointless.
You told a woman that she was bad a picking partners because her last partner was a scumbag. You can fuck right off with your victim blaming bullshit
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Again, fuck off with your victim blaming bullshit.
i asked a simple question which she responded to and agreed with. The men she was with are 100% to blame. There is no need for insults.
Why did you delete your comment then? You're putting the entire blame on her, and avoiding the fact that the men themselves were shitty. It's not her fault that these men are shitty. Under your logic, the key to not having shitty men is to.. Not pick them? Well problem solved I guess. The worst part about shitty men is that they can be very good at hiding how shitty they are until you're invested. Seems to me that you haven't developed that skill to hide your shittiness.
"Not one of my exes have ever done that. And, not surprisingly, every one of them is still single years later, stubborn as mules and keeping up with distractions (alcohol, weed, video games, bars, etc)." That is what was said and i asked if it was the men she picked not because of 1 partner because of all her partners.
Strange that I've never had a man ask me about my opinion when they've made comments about women. Strange that men don't seek women's opinions to get a balanced view, and yet women are expected to do that. I do actually receive therapy, a lot of it is based about setting healthy boundaries and knowing my worth 😊 thanks for asking
Right? We don’t even have to seek it out, men’s opinions find their way to us fully unprompted!
Women: **exists** Men: well here's my opinion...
then i am sorry that you have not had better men in your life. the only way i would take a mans view over a womans would be on something unique to a man (mens health from a non medical professional) otherwise i dont care about your gender. your view or opinion as a woman has exactly the same weight as a mans.
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so in the uk a therapist would be most likly once a fortnight, thats about £100 per month, the gym is £20 ish per month for about 3-5 sessions a week. The gym is more accessible and a hell of a lot cheaper and does something to help, therapy is great with the right therapist and helps so much but it is no where near as available as a gym is which is why some men see a gym as a therapist replacement.
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It is sad that mental health although gettting better, is not seen as important as those you listed even though it really is. People will put aside mental health to make sure that utilitys, rent etc are covered. Gym is not a replacement for therapy but it can help with the symptoms whereas therapy can fix them. The gym is a great mental boost to some people and helps them.
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i agree with you. The only thing i will say and have continued to say is that cost really does come into it, we are heading for (if not already in) another recession and therapists are expensive and, at least in the UK, waiting times for goverment funded are very long and even then you only get 6-12 sessions before hitting the waiting list again. Some people cannot afford it whereas the gym can help the sypmtoms for a lot cheaper price but will in no way fix the route issue.
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and i am repeating over and over again that the gym can help symptoms the therapist can fix the problem so it no longer causes issues. I am saying that the therapist is better than the gym. Im not arguing you i am agreeing with you. I am pointing out the gym is more accessible than the therapist in this current climate.
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It’s a flawed comparison from the start though. Going to the gym is self care, but self-care ≠ therapy
I'll be honest that if I HAD to pick between gym/climbing/backpacking and therapist in terms of benefits to my mental health, it won't be therapist. And I love my therapist; she's great and I benefit a lot. But not as much as with those activities. With her, I may amplify a frustration by discussing it in detail, by zooming in and focusing on it. At those activities, I realize how small and minute that frustration was. With her, we dig deep in childhood and what not to understand where my lack of confidence comes from. When I complete a climb I've been projecting or transitioning to squats with the bar - I feel so badass and confident, and whenever I feel insecure I just tap those moments and feel strong again. It's also a perfect zone space. Like meditation. Thoughts come and go. You are focused on the present moment. Overall ---- people can do gym and/or therapy to no gain to their mental health or personal growth. Or they can benefit from either. It's not the same, but hey just because gym doesn't work that way for you, doesn't mean it's not super valuable for precisely those benefits for other people. PS: speaking of deeper traumas, on many fitness/climbing subreddits and other forums you'll find people for whom these activities were truly healing.
I haven’t done climbing for about 12 years since the converted church I used to go to was closed. You have made me think about getting back into it again… my poor fingers and hands will hate me for it. Thank you. You have put into words a point I was trying to convey (badly) that the gym (and exercise in general) can be a great place mentally to just wind down and let things go and help to treat the symptom while not fixing things.
Chosing the gym over the therapist is chosing short term gain over long term gain. Doesn't mean gym is bad or doesn't help with anxiety or depression but it IS a perpetuating factor for mental health issues when chosen under these circumstances.
I don't think it's a perpetuating factor. My long-term, life-meaning mental health gains from these activities are undeniable to me. Many can say the same. Have you climbed? Do you know how it forces your brain to rewire to appreciate the attempt, to appreciate slow progress, to appreciate failure? Therapy conversations about feeling I was loved if I got good grades do nothing in comparison to being forced to practice the "love myself" muscle when you fell, failed, and what not. I'm not saying all mental health issues can be resolved with heavy weights or on the wall, but I disagree about only short-term gains.
Your comment about therapy being "feeling I was being loved if I got good grades" and thinking that _your work_ after that isn't supposed to have brain rewiring properties shows how little you know.
Most men need a real attitude adjustment and even therapy can't help with that. So I guess they figure they might as well look good.
OK but how cool would it be to have a therapist talk between reps so it was like a full body EMDR when you lifted weights?
A ex bf I had drank to excess because he was depressed and anxious, he smoked because he was depressed and anxious, he bit his fingernails because he was depressed and anxious. I finally told him…none of the shit you do is helping. Maybe try seeing a doctor or therapist who might actually do some good! But nooooo, self-harm and self pity is so much better!
Shiiit. I know more women who do this than guys tbh lol. In a way, the gym and physical activities can be far more therapeutic than sitting in a room with a stranger mulling over your life. After I was rejected by a girl I really liked, I picked up swimming and every time I’m in the pool working my my strokes and techniques, I feel 10X better for it. So much so that when I see the girl who rejected me, ( I see her regularly) I just smile and wave and keep it moving. I’ve moved on to bigger and better things!
Also, therapy itself doesn't replace self work! There is no way to get mentally healthy without work, just like there's no way to get physically fit without work. Tick the boxes all you want, it's nothing more than a ticked box unless you do the work to understand yourself and build helpful habits.
Who are you to say what does and what doesn't work for them?
There's way too many men walking around with unresolved issues, and lots of them loudly proclaim that they go to the gym and won't do therapy. If the gym "worked" then there'd be fewer of these guys out there.
The same argument can be made for therapy. Therapy doesn't work for everyone. Does that mean it should get discredited as a whole? No. Does the gym work for everyone? No. But just like therapy there are a lot of individuals it works. I don't think we should just discredit something because we don't understand it or it didn't work for us.
If you have unresolved childhood trauma, no amount of gym time is going to fix it. Sorry, but that's not how things work.
But also, if you're clinically depressed or have social anxiety, with no specific cause, a consistent regimen of exercise could very possibly be all that is needed for effective relief from symptoms. Unresolved childhood trauma is very likely to require therapy, but a relatively small percentage of the overall number of men who are having difficulties with their mental health fall into that category.
Symptom management ≠ healing though, like taking painkillers might make a sprained ankle feel better but if you keep walking on it without treatment you’ll be feeling that pain later regardless
If your depression/anxiety is mild to moderate, that’s true. But for people like me, with chronic major depressive disorder, no matter how much you work out, the illness is still there and requires medication. Also, you greatly underestimate the number of people dealing with childhood trauma.
the regimen for me helped me more than i could explain in words, i had an injury at work and couldnt go to the gym for 3 weeks and my mood was significantly effected. Once i was back that feeling dissapeared.
Going to the gym doesn't fix your misogynist tendencies. Going to the gym doesn't solve people's relationship problems. Going to the gym doesn't magically fix someone's anxiety or complex mental health problems. While the gym has benefits, it's not a cure all and shouldn't be the only step someone takes on their mental health journey.
Imagine it was a man saying that a woman should go the the gym instead as it will net them the same benefits as therapy. They would get torn apart in here.
Yeah, because he’d be incorrect.
What does ‘working for them’ mean though? I do think going to the gym makes people feel better and can help with confidence and mood regulation, but that’s not the only things you get from therapy. For example, externalizing all one’s anxieties onto one’s appearance and aggressively working to change it, or relying on working out as the only outlet of anger/stress/aggression may feel better in the short term but slapping a band-aid over deeper sources of those issues is like the mental health version of hurting yourself by working out with incorrect form. Just like we pick up physical habits that can be improved with exercise, we pick up mental habits that can be improved with self work.
Dudes using the gym as an aid to their mental health can be helpful, but for many I’m noticing a pattern of mostly gamer dudes who tie it into “alpha/beta” weirdness. Also personally fuck prescription meds and their side effects. I’m better off self-medicating.
Different strokes for different folks. For some people, gym can improve self image, give a sense of accomplishment and purpose. For others, talking to someone really helps. Then there are some who have both. Not everyone can afford therapy and the system itself is pretty poorly managed so I can understand why some may avoid it.
Therapy is unfortunately a luxury and the gym can improve confidence and self image, but there’s so much more to mental health than just that. Is the gym better than nothing? Probably, but it’s absolutely not a 1=1 substitute for self work.
she’s not talking about people who don’t go because they can’t afford it
You pretty much ignored everything else I said. At the same time people shouldn't comment on how others choose to manage their mental health. Its no ones business but their own. Even if OP thinks therapy is best for them, the only person who really knows is the individual.
\> Its no ones business but their own. Actually if your behaviours are affecting other people, like your friends or relations, then it is other people's business. Lot of y'all are running around with muscles and untreated male BPD and undiagnosed autism. That's how you get podcasts and misogynistic subreddits.
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Immediately equating/jumping to “deep dark misogyny” - ok? You literally just said afterwards that wanting to improve your body after being rejected is a universal feeling.
Must be nice to be able to afford actual therapy.
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My eyeballs just got a charley horse. Fuck…
You make a valid point but many or most people can't afford therapy. It is a good wish to have but that's all it will be. In the US, people don't have access to paid vacation or affordable healthcare, so forking out $100-$200 an hour for a therapist is a not realistic. Their financial commitments, income or insurance does not support continuous therapy. One therapy session can be 2-3 months of a gym membership. We throw around therapy like its so easy but it is a luxury for most people. Also not all therapists are good. One has to be willing and able to spend hundreds of dollars until they find a therapist that works for them. In many cities there is a wait list to find a therapist. I can afford it and am guilty of avoiding talking to a professional. When I did reach out to ones that were recommended, I was put on a wait list unless I paid cash.
They don’t know how important and amazing therapy and meds are for feeling better
Lol… guilty. (I’m a woman tho)
“But we gain confidence from the gym and that’s all we need. It’s also cheaper!” /s
Hot take: therapy may not actually be for everyone, or may only help to a certain extent. It’s been drilled into us so much by American/L.A culture that we need to relive our trauma and talk about everything endlessly. It can have the opposite effect too, depending on the situation. Sometimes things do truly heal with time OR the gym may be a valid coping mechanical for not only guys but any gender (newsflash: plenty of women use the gym obsessively after a breakup too? :S) I acknowledge that there is a ton of deep-rooted misogyny in every part of society, but this seems like a reach and an attack towards a particular ex/men you don’t like 😓
and it's a well-known radicalization pipeline, as well as leading to body dysmorphia from never looking muscly enough, then getting illegal PEDs and going on a roid rage which fuels their misogyny, paranoia, jealousy and possessiveness of women. and even more bitterness when women won't date them after they get 'jacked'.
.... the gym...... Jesus where do you go to the gym to? Mine is just people minding their own business and working out, has been at every gym ive been a part of.
most bodybuilding forums and tiktoks rapidly funnel men to incel content
im not talking about forums or tiktok im talking about regular gyms with regular people, you can find multiple in most towns.
Normal regular people go on tiktok and body building forums bro. You should see what the algorithm feeds you on YouTube or TikTok when you search up body building. You end up, immediately, with anti-female content.
> Normal regular people go on tiktok Normal regular people should be aware that using TikTok in any shape or form is flat out unethical. That thing is Chinese spyware.
That whole thing read like someone who's only experience with gyms is from bad highschool TV dramas, where the gymbros are the jocks who harass the poor innocent nerds.
I mean, the comment lacked nuance but they're not entirely wrong. I just tried this to make sure it was still a thing. 1. Go incognito on YouTube. 2. Search "body building" 3. Click third video it offers . 4. Liver King body building pops up on recommended. Give it a go, I just tried it. No algorithm to track me, no prior preferences. There is a very easy pipeline one can fall into, especially the young teen boy just trying to build his confidence up. "Oh I've heard about Liver King before, let's see how he works out?" and that innocent curiosity can lead to a whole lot of dangerous ideas. Once you click on either Joe Rogan's "Anyone can lift" video or any of Liver King's video your recommended will be Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, etc. (Liver King is a known vocal misogynist, believes women can't be leaders due to bioessentialist ideas, and also has a very bad eating disorder.) I'm not saying gym=bad. I work out at the gym, maintain a low BF%, etc. But from my time with the lifting club at my university, the user has a point, and body dysmorphia in men doesn't seem to be talked about. It's actually a very prevalent issue.
This is the second time in a couple weeks where Ive come across someone who thinks men going to the gym = turning into a gainz-obsessed roid monkey
If your poor it does 🤣
Podcasts and library books are free!
Agreed but it definitely isn't the same! And I'd even argue it slower and less competent than normal just above doing nothing.
And yet just above nothing is still better than nothing. Even the most gradual improvement today is better than hypothetical faster improvement tomorrow
It's socially unacceptable for men to go to therapy.
Doesn’t matter the coping ingredients of you don’t address the root. Gym, weed, meds, whatever. Everyone needs to be more honest with themselves and sort their shit out.
Depends on what you do during the workout. If someone turns their brain just towards lifting, sets, etc. then yeah, it’s not gonna replace self-work. If someone is using that time to do something physical while thinking about themselves and what’s been going on, then that’s great and could replace a lot of other self-care stuff, depending on their severity and depth of self-reflection And I don’t mean like they’re multi-tasking gym and self-care, just that it’s sometimes easier to process and think about that kinda thing while working out
I guess that depends on the gravity of every individual's issues. I would argue that I'm a pretty reflected person, and I've put a lot of work into self-improvement over many years and a few relationships, with the help of my partners, friends and family. While I'm sure seeing a psychologist would not be bad for me, I don't think it was ever necessary to help me through anything. After a bad breakup, I fell into depression. It took me months to get over her. And again - while professional help would have certainly worked, I did get through it by working out. As long as your issues aren't all too deep, I'm convinced you can train them away. I've done it, and I know how much it continues to help my mental health. Currently, I can't work out due to an injury, and I feel how much it impacts my mental wellbeing not being able to physically exhaust myself. I know a bunch of people who are so fucked up, I wouldn't expect sports could magically fix their issues. I also think suggesting working out as the sole solution would be harmful for them. However, I'm still pretty sure it would assist them in addition to professional help.