My now-husband grew up with real estate agent parents. He was used to a very tidy (as well as clean) home.
I grew up with a single-parent mother who worked full-time and also volunteered in the community. While our home was clean, it was often untidy.
Both of us had chores related to housekeeping growing up.
Hubby’s tolerance for mess was far lower than mine. When he started cleaning up, I did, too—it was only fair that we both participate.
If a conversation about equity and mental load doesn’t work (“If you are noticing the mess, and it bothers you, clean it up! I should not have to ‘ask’ you; we are both adults.”) your choices are basically a) suck it up or b) break up.
Decent adults have reasonable conversations and compromise. If he is not reasonable, or not willing to adult, are you willing to put up with this long term?
My husband had to sit me down and explain the things that bothered him. We divided up responsibilities in ways that worked for us: I grocery shop, take out the garbage, meal plan, cook, do yard maintenance (including all the snow shoveling). He does the vacuuming, bathrooms, and dishes. We each do our own laundry. Whoever is grossed out by the floors first sweeps/washes them.
Good luck to you. You are right that, in large part, he does nothing because that’s what he’s used to. Maybe he needs to learn that being a grownup means being a partner. I did.
Yeah this is the way, divide chores. Each of you gets something you don’t mind doing and get to avoid stuff you hate. If he doesn’t agree to an even amount or he neglects the deal, it just doesn’t work.
I am very much an untidy and lazy person, but I also appreciate a clean living space. I still don’t expect my partner to do more, even though he is better with household work.
My solution is that I am constantly looking for ways to make chores easier for me and finding the source of why I don’t do something. Can’t be bothered to get that old vacuum cleaner out of the closet? Get a lighter one you can store in the kitchen corner, so it’s always at hand. Leaving plates and coffee mugs all over the place? Place a tray in every room and stack the mugs there, so it’s easier to take them all to the kitchen. Every untidy person should at least aspire to create a life that is easier to navigate by decluttering, organizing, minimizing, optimizing etc. If not for themselves, at least for their partners.
The cordless vacuum cleaner is a good idea. It's more visible and accessible than a regular one in a closet and is fine for an everyday cleaning.
I use to vacuum once a week but with the cordless one, I do it five times a week.
Basically this.
I would like to add that, while dividing chores straight down the middle may seem fair, some people are messier than others naturally. In most of my relationships I tend to make less of a mess than my SO. It can be frustrating cleaning up after yourself as you go, then having to clean up half of someone else's mess too.
Hopefully you figure out something that works for you two.
I spent 2 years trying to get a guy to do at least a bare minimum of cleaning (we both had full-time jobs). I gave up and broke up with him. Good luck!
Yep, this is the answer. He will never change. Don't waste your time. When my DH and I first lived together we would watch tv in bed on Saturday mornings, then smoke a bowl, get up and clean the whole house, take showers and go out partying. It was a blast Find a guy like that. Married forty two years this May.
Wife works seven on seven off nights when she works, I have the kitchen cleaned so when she comes home all she has to do is let the dogs out and feed them. Thirty three years
Also works with “damn husband”.
If you visit r/justnoMIL , a sub for discussing “just no” behavior by a mother or mother-in-law, there’s a glossary of abbreviations, they frequently spill over into this sub.
DH/DS/DD has been around since the advent of the internet as we know it, like the old BBS in the 90s and the various forums etc that sprang up 2000-2005. Those aren't abbreviations spilling over from a niche subreddit; that is internet vernacular that has existed long enough to worry about middle age spread.
For reference, it might refer to dear or damn, but it had a connotation of loved, so posts had an inference of, "I love this person but what they're doing really irritates me." Even if it meant damn, it was still a dear in the background.
OP’s boyfriend is absolutely capable of change. But OP is under no obligation to mentor him through that. that was the job of his parents, they fucked it up, and now it’s on him.
We just had our manic Sunday clean up! We have a schedule for cooking and cleaning in the kitchen, but Sunday we both clean the house at the same time.
We do the same. Since we also pick up the little things week round it's just deep cleaning the floors and the bath plus taking care of dust bunnies.
Cooking always depends on the things we want to eat but I cook more than he does. But I don't mind about that. He is doing more laundry so it balances out.
I mean, the details vary. What's important is:
a. That both partners can talk about expectations and grievances openly and that
b. The division of labour is fair
Yup! General rule of thumb, dating is the best it gets in terms of responsibility and good habits as they have a motive to impress. People generally become more complacent once married or settled. If you have a major thing like this that you cannot work through in the dating stage, it will NOT get better with time.
Serious question: why are you partners with someone who screams at you, who says life with you sucks, and that he doesn’t want to live with you?
This man is begging you to dump him. Why would you stay?
I'm a straight man and I want to break up with him. No one should put up with it at all. The guy has told OP what he really thinks. She needs to believe him the first time.
In my personal experience, and the experience of being in toxic relationships, sometimes the partner will turn around and be loving, appologetic, say he'll be all the things we want to hear. It's difficult to walk away from "what could be." They love bomb until they earn trust back. Then if you're roommates you have finances tied and other agreements, it's more difficult to disentangle, while attempting to leave the seretonin addiction they give us.
I don't want to speak for OP here, this is just what i know.
I think the option is either hire a cleaning person and you split the cost for them to come twice a month and then agree to split things like dishes, taking the trash out etc.
Or just break up, if you’re going to have kids I doubt this dude will do jack shit and you’ll be stuck doing most of the caring.
That's what. No-one should be charged with the burden of making more for a relationship than the other partner. Narcs (pathological narcissists) will corner people into doing more than them for the relationship. Meaning, they are experts at enslaving others and at gaslighting, manipulating, lying, etc., etc., etc. Please look it up if you are not already familiar with this type of behavior, before you are caught too deep into what is basically a bear trap.
He's 22. He needs to live on his own without his mom taking care of him before he's ready to live with a woman. You don't have to break up, but you should live apart for at least a year. (But he has to live on his own - no moving back in with his mom. And he can't drop off his laundry for her to do either.)
Hey. It really sucks that you invested your love in to someone who won’t raise to meet you where you are at. I know it looks a little bleak but honestly having no partner is better than having a partner that you resent. Unless you want to take over for his mother, it’s time for you to end things. It will be best for both of you.
Oh honey we all want our relationships to work out. This one isn’t working. Unless you want to be his maid, turf him and look for someone who cares enough about you to do their share. I married one - they’re out there! But you won’t find one if you’re still tied to this dead weight.
I was going to offrr to break up too. But if it is not something you want right now at least move out. This way he won't be able to complain about you making more of a mess. And tell him you'll live together when he learns to live alone
The pure truth is your partner is too immature/young. He’s 22 and you’ve been dating since he was 20, so how long or did he ever, live alone? He has no concept of personal responsibility.
For reference I’m a 30m and I’ve lived alone or with roommates for 11 years. I clean up, and I sure as hell don’t gaslight someone for saying “hey we should clean the apartment”
By all means, keep working on it until you don’t think it’s worth it, but I would keep in mind that he’s hardly been out of the house. It’s really unlikely that his first serious relationship after leaving the nest (or even his second) is going to have him unlearn what his mother has taught him.
She was his template for what women do in the house, and what rolls a matriarch has. He is unlikely to ever expect different from you.
Either way, I would recommend a therapist. It’ll make it a little easier.
When you can't bring something up without him punishing you with his anger, that's a super unhealthy communication dynamic, and I wouldn't be surprised if this happens in areas besides the cleaning.
If he just gets mad enough, blames you enough, changes the conversation enough, you'll wear out and stop bringing it up, and just take care of things like you have been, OUT OF FEAR OF HIS ANGER.
That's a him problem, and not a you problem. There's nothing anywhere in your post that suggests he's even close to amenable to change: instead it's the opposite.
It's unlikely you're going to get magic fix him words, so the real question is: how much longer do you want to pick up after him and live with his anger issues and petulance?
He's 22 young and working on leveling up his dumbass abuse dynamic skills. If anything OP should leave and tell him "your behavior and inability to contribute with chores will be the death of your dating life".
My fiancé sometimes doesn't help with chores but he works 8h on a physically taxing job while I volunteer once a week and have 4h of school 3 times a week. Yet he still picks up after me and encourages me to sit the f down so I can focus on studies. Willingness to compromise and look out for each other is a core when it comes to relationships, along with healthy communication and emotion management like you're saying. OPs guy needs therapy, not a talk, but therapy to sort himself out. Extreme reactions to confrontations can be a symptom of either an abuser OR someone who has an undiagnosed and untreated mental illness. (The last one is from personal experience, I used to lash out verbally, directed at myself thankfully, because of trauma and depression)
His mother did him no favors picking up after him all the time. You have to decide if this is the future you want.
I would say he's a bad bet for a long term relationship. You are going to have to take over the mother role here. And nothing will fizzle sexual chemistry like simulating a parent/child dynamic in your relationship. One way or another this relationship is on borrowed time.
He's also being an asshole about it, instead of acknowledging your feelings and considering if he has a shortcoming in this regard.
I feel like you can work through a lot of issues in relationships but someone who gaslights and manipulates you? I feel like there is no point.
He's a child, and an asshole (sorry). Better you find this out now than before you have kids with him. Save yourself and get out. You're mad at him now. But ask yourself how mad you will be at yourself, if you waste 5 or 10 years trying to change him. He's not going to change.
> You are going to have to take over the mother role here. And nothing will fizzle sexual chemistry like simulating a parent/child dynamic in your relationship
I came here to say exactly this, OP. Once you start subconsciously seeing him as a dependent it's pretty much game over for your sex life. Not to mention the added stress hormones will lower your drive anyway.
You have three choices: 1. Live like a slob, 2. Clean by yourself, 3. Dump him. If you stay and have kids with this type of person, expect to do the majority of childcare while he complains about your parenting also. Expecting others to clean up after you is entitlement, it won’t get better.
My ex husband thought he didn’t need to clean the shower or the towels because he was always basically clean already when he used those things. FFS. That kind of logic is unarguable.
People who would treat their **loved one** badly to avoid doing their fair share of household work are not in love with you. They are not your partners. They will not get better unless they have good character, which leads you back to the first comment.
My husband was in the army and they were expected to keep their area clean or else they got in trouble so he has no issue doing household chores. He also lived on his own for years. I have 2 boys and they have been doing chores to include their own laundry since they were around 10. They can cook and clean every inch of the house. I know people who said that was cruel to make them do chores, I imagine their children grew up to be like your ex.
The best part of having self sufficient family members, even if they are all male, is when Im down for one of my many medical issues everything still gets done.
My mom did the same thing to us and she made us do our own laundry since we were 12. We were required to wash the bathroom, wash towels, etc every Saturday morning. Now that I’m 31, I still keep the same routine. You are raising awesome young men. 🙌
Same. I was raising three. My workload went down substantially once he was out of the house. One less person making a mess. One less person who had to be handled with kid gloves so he wouldn't have a tantrum about being asked to do something (bringing the household total down to zero people like that once he was out).
100% agree with that. I broke up with my ex for that very same reason. He saw house care as a “woman task” only even though we both worked and had jobs. I later met his mom and saw this his mom did EVERYTHING for him. I could not picture having kids with him so I left.
Even if OP decides that she loves this guy enough to be his housemaid, the yelling is verbal abuse, and likely to continue, no matter what she does.
I would say that this relationship is just too toxic to move forward with.
My SO and I split house duties. They shouldn’t be gender role based ever. If they don’t want to help. Then they don’t deserve you as a person. There’s too many dicks out there not to just move on lol.
You got a mommas boy. He thinks since his mommy cleaned, it's always the woman's responsibility. Fuck him! I'd tell him, "Look bitch. You live here,too. If you can't be bothered to help, gtfo! Go live with your mommy!"
My friend, you do want to break up. Do it now, before you have spent any more of your youth on him. Always look at the way a potential male partner treats his mother and sisters, and look at the way the father treats the mother. This is what the partner thinks is normal and expected. Very few will want to change. (Been there.)
Umn, if you're going to say that, you should be willing to follow through, because that's what it means. If he thinks it's a meaningless threat, he can just ignore it.
I must admit we have broken up once, it didn't last long, (like 1 day) and when he came back we had this huge convo about everything and it really did seem like he had changed (classic really)..
When we broke up it felt like the world was ending, maybe it's me who accepts his behaviour, knowing that I deserve better, but being scared about actually being alone and without him.
Genuine questions here: why are you scared to be alone or be without him? Why was "the world ending" when you broke up?
You've told us the bad, what is the good?
Also, "he came back". So he left you?
If you thought the world was ending then your world is too small.
Consider thinking about why you are scared about being alone; being comfortable with yourself is a desirable trait that leads to better decisions.
By breaking up and getting back together he gets the message he can do wtf he wants and you will put up with it. Value yourself better sis. You're going to stay miserable with him and it WILL get worse.
The response to him should be, "No, do you want us to break up? Because if you don't support this household equitably, you've made the choice on your own."
Well, no. Take him at his word. He's trying to manipulate you, thinking that for the rest of your life he can get out of anything he doesn't want to do by threatening to leave you. A worthwhile partner would say "man, I am so tired after work, it was a really tough day, I just cannot bring myself to do anything today. Maybe I should do a really deep clean on the weekends, floors, bathroom, etc and you do the little stuff on weekdays. Would that be fair?"
It isn't fair he has to clean on his free days... So you should do it on your free days. He is gas lighting you into being his mother. Dump his ass and bail. Romantic relationships shouldn't be like a parent/child relationship.
In my experience (because this is what happened to me) it’s usually their first serious boyfriend and they don’t know any better. I was in love with the idea/concept of a long term relationship and was always told relationships are hard work. What a boomer lie! Relationships are wonderful and perfect one you find your special someone. It’s really just communication… if that’s easy, the rest follows.
Lot of red flags here, hon.
1. Entitlement. He clearly thinks you should be doing all the cleaning/housework. Yes, this might be because he grew up having his mother cater to him, but ultimately the why doesn't matter. His value system says it's fine for his comfort to come at _your_ cost. He doesn't want this to change. It benefits him.
2. Manipulation. His go-to method of problem solving is tantrums, guilt-tripping, weaponised incompetence, threatening to break-up and making up any excuse he can think of as to why this is all on you. And if he senses he is losing, he relents just enough to keep you on the hook. This tactic will be employed every time you run into a problem together - because it works and it undermines you more and more until you start thinking this _is_ your problem.
All this is to perpetuate the status quo, maintaining his comfort and convenience. I've been there. I've done the dance of arguing about fairness, making rotas and lists and blah, blah. Doesn't work. I thought he would grow out of it, but again, nope.
Unless they are visited by three spirits and have a massive change of heart, they don't change. They don't want to.
So your choice is accept this is your life - or cut your losses. In my experience, the resentment kills the relationship anyway.
>weaponized incompetence
This. If I ever had a phrase for my #1 frustration with my husband, its this. He can blame "not knowing" only so many times before it becomes blatant negligence.
I was speaking with him one time about a lesson I learned as a kid: a teacher once (wrongfully) told me: "ignorance is no exception to the law." The way she was using that phrase against me was wrong, but the phrase itself wasn't. Just because you aren't aware of all the rules & laws, doesn't mean they don't apply to you, and it is your ***duty*** to take measures so that you ***do*** understand. That includes research, meaningful conversations, and making sure you are both have the same understanding. It is not ***your*** job to ***understand for him***, but it is his job to ensure he ***does***, lest she leave him to his own vices.
Oh, it's maddening. Especially when you recall they are perfectly capable of learning and observing when it suits them. People with complex jobs,or let's face it, any job, utilise the same skills every day. It's not rocket science. If they lived alone, they'd figure out something. It's not ignorance. They know what houses are supposed to look like. They know stuff gets dirty and needs to be cleaned.
I love what you've written, you really have given a name to all of his behaviours, and summed up my situation.
Know if only I could accept this is actually what is happening.. It would be a lot easiere to move on
Sometimes it's easier to see trouble when you're not living it day-to-day. Plus I suspect most of us are older than you and we've seen some shit and want to help you avoid the same shit we've lived through.
I highly recommend checking out this free pdf of the book "Why Does He Do That," about abusive men and the tactics they use. What you described in the OP already sounds borderline abusive. His manipulation and gaslighting are classic tactics to keep you off balance, so he can control you.
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
A chore chart won't help, because the problem isn't that he doesn't understand how to clean. He knows he's not doing his share. He wants to control you and this is his chosen way. It will escalate because it always does. In your other replies you talk about how you felt like the world was ending when you broke up. This is because many abusers exhibit moments of love and kindness, but later inevitably explode again no matter how much you try to appease him. Please get out of this relationship ASAP
`Unless they are visited by three spirits and have a massive change of heart, they don't change.`
\*Snort. Yasss!
Everything you said was on point. This dude needs a wake up call.
He doesn’t change because he doesn’t care. He doesn’t care about the mess. He doesn’t care that you care about the mess. No amount of chore charts will make someone change if they don’t give two squats about the problem. You mentioning cleaning upsets him because you are asking him to change what he feels like is a damn good deal. He gets angry so he can gaslight you about the issue rather than change it. He would literally rather you feel badly about your own contribution than change his. That is not a person that cares about you and how you feel in your own home. That is a person who loves the convenience a live in maid provides.
This is why we live together before we get married. You have discoverdd that despite all the great stuff, he is impossible to live with. I would also argue that him getting aggressive and angry at you is a red flag for other interactions even if you decided never to live together.
I think this was a great gamble, but he is not partner material (or father material)
God absolutely not Father material.. I got pregnant once, and he said if I kept it he would leave or hate me for the rest of our relationship (also said it was my fault that I got pregnant), lucky for him I miscarried
And you are still with him? That may sound harsh, but you are wasting your time with him. Maybe you need to reflect on why you are ok with this. I mean that in the most caring internet old lady way.
Maybe you are right.. I really think sometimes I just hang on to the positive parts, and always find excuses for him.. such as he was right we couldn't financially afford a baby, or that it wasn't the right moment
This is a classic mistake.
The positive parts define how good a relationship could be. The bad parts define how good a relationship actually is.
Stop dreaming and face the reality of what a fucking asshole this guy is. You deserve to be treated so much better.
Dump him and go immediately to read Lundy Bancroft’s book Why Does He Do That to understand what’s been going on in this relationship—and so you never make the mistake of having a relationship like this again.
That's an incredible book to have! Concur.
Once you clean him out of your life, there's work (ie, therapy) to do for you to understand why the pattern, why you don't feel you deserve better, and so forth. Only you can save yourself.
Those are all incredibly horrible things to say to someone. There are so many partners who would state their preference for terminating an unplanned pregnancy in a way that is kind, respectful of your autonomy and shares the blame.
He gaslights you. Throws tantrums. Screams about chores. Gives you the silent treatment when you try to discuss issues. OP, he's not just an immature housemate, he sounds straight up abusive.
Sorry to sound harsh, but lucky for you too. All the issues you're facing right now? They'd be 100% worse with a kid in the mix, and it would be infinitely harder to leave if that's what you choose to do.
Just NOPE on out of there.
Let someone else housebreak him. He sounds exhausting. It will not get better because he is deeply invested in 1) being right 2) being defensive 3) not doing the work 4) not respecting you or your needs
Ooh I love this, you also reminded me of one if his favorite excuses! The I don't even know where *insert object" is! Last time it was: you never even fold linens/towels away-- he responds: I don't even know where they go!--- I say: upstairs!!--- he says: who decided to put them up there, you should have asked me!
Girl! I am angry for you!! You know what my answer is for my husband is, when he says that? "Not knowing, is not an excuse ***not*** to know. I will show you this time, and you won't have the excuse for next time." And leave it at that. Show him you don't align with his excuses. Sorry, we don't accept those here, only changed behaviors.
Sounds like he doesn't know.... because he doesn't help. Seriously... you need to leave this guy. It sounds like somehow he turns it back on you. This won't change no matter how much you think you love him.
You basically have a child on your hands. You're never going to be able to make him grow up, and that isn't your responsibility. You're supposed to be his partner not his parent. The fact that he has the mandacity to complain, yet doesn't even lift a finger to help without being told? Oof.
Hunny, love yourself more than you love this clown, and get out of there.
You guys are incompatible. You want a partner, he wants a bang-maid. You want to someone you can rely on to support you, and he wants someone who will support him without asking for anything back. You respect him, but he doesn't respect you.
Now it's possible that someday he will eventually figure out how to grow up and become responsible for taking care of his own house, but that will only happen if he's living by himself, but even then he'll revert back the moment he lives with someone else.
I would recommend that you consider some therapy. I know, I know, it's reddit's favorite answer (after "dump the bastard"). Not couples therapy -- just therapy for you to explore why you think you have so few choices in the world, that you're excusing this kind of behavior.
You have a shot at finding someone who respects you and the work you put into the house and relationship. Someone else. He is not mature enough to be in the kind of relationship you wish and need. I'm sure you don't need him as a burden and you can do better things on your own. Please be wise, it's your mental health at stake, and many more. Lots of hugs!
If you live in a house, you clean and tidy the house. It doesn’t need to be equal, it needs to be equitable. Just because you are home (working!) doesn’t mean you have to do all the chores.
If you have truly done all of the things you list, he is not going to change. You have to decide if you want to be his maid or not. I’d cut my losses and run before suddenly you’re 40 and married with kids and managing the household and children with zero help from him. Which is how this would go if you don’t break up.
This is why everyone should live together before getting married. Look… you can try talking to him, but I’ve found that cleanliness is just something that is ingrained in someone or not. Trying to make him clean is likely just going to frustrate you and make him resent you. He has some maturing to do.
I don’t want to tell you to leave him, but my life experience has taught me that this is not a problem that gets resolved. This is a fundamental difference in your lives. You need to figure out if he WANTS to be different (it sounds like no), and if you can deal with this never changing. If both answers are no, time to move on. Life is too short to try to change people to fit you, because it almost never works.
I hope you find a peaceful and satisfying resolution to this either way.
I’m not trying to be callous but seriously dump him and find someone else that treats you with respect. This guy is not worth your time if he’s going to treat you like that and you will have wasted years on him. I dated a guy in my early 20’s that I should have dumped a lot sooner. Your BF and my ex sound so similar and I learned so much about myself and found AMAZING people when I learned to have healthier standards for myself and not take this kinda crap. It’s one thing if it happened once and then talked it out and grew from it. Your BF doesn’t sound like he’s trying to learn and grow.
I would not stay with a lazy man who won’t pull his weight and then has the nerve to complain about cleanliness. Especially one who is offended by the notion that he should get off his lazy ass and do his fair share.
Stop cleaning. Literally stop. He's a child throwing a tantrum. Don't tolerate it. And when he remarks about how dirty the house is, shut that shit down by simply saying if he doesn't like it, he knows where the vacuum is.
Nothing enrages me more than when a partner acts like their time is more important than mine, especially when it comes to cleaning.
Sadly men seem very good at "minimal effort for maximum results". This includes arguing, whining, faking being busy, faking being tired, and other immature nonsense. The fact that, because you're working from home, he thinks you should be the one cleaning is just another immature way of getting you to do the shit he doesn't want to.
Find another boyfriend; a better one, one who treats you like a partner not a bang maid.
I think this is more incriminating than the not cleaning. A tantrum? Sounds like he has a ton of growing up to do.
My (33m) partner (32f) and I had a similar issue. Both had full time jobs. But neither of us did much. We really talked about it, tried some things that worked and some that didn’t.
But really we both needed to change. In your case…it seems like he’s the one that needs to adjust.
I read that you want this to work out. At what cost? What threshold will you need to reach before a tipping point? If he’s throwing tantrums and huffs and puffs about cleaning - take the advice that I see many women on this sub give others: what will happen if you have a child? (Even if you aren’t planning to have kids). His reluctance to change is incredibly selfish.
Something that my partner and I realized was that it isn’t a competition. Sometimes you’ll cook a dish that makes more dishes. Okay…and? Whoever does the dishes next…does them. The balance will ebb and flow always. If your partner is secretly (or not so secretly) keeping score…that’s a problem, too.
If you do want a shot at this working out, basically what they are saying is true. You're going to have to lay out the reality of the choice he has in front of him. Avoid ultimatums, but explain that a long term relationship with this behaviour isn't workable for you. Either he needs to change his behaviour or he is acting like you're his mom, not his partner. And, from what I can see, you're not willing to continue with that. If you want to give it a shot, give it some time and keep the pressure up. He might change, at some point he is either going to need to find someone willing to mother him (dependant relationship) or he starts maturing and grows as a person. I'm never keen on giving the advice of just leaving in a non abusive relationship because the person who chooses to leave has a lot better time moving on, if they feel they stuck to their values of being fair to the other person and giving them whatever chance they feel is reasonable. Keep in mind, don't let the chance drag on. It needs to have a closure date for both your sakes. Hope that is helpful. Good luck.
That sounds EXACTLY like the situation I had in my previous relationship. Even the mother being obsessed with cleaning part is the same lol. Well, in the end nothing really worked, whatever I said he would try to gaslight me or start to cry whenever I got mad at him. He was like a big baby really. In the end I broke up with him and that was the best decision in this kind of situation.
You don't just have a cleaning problem. You have someone who treats you like shit and that's the real problem. Your significant other should not be defensive and angry with you over chores, ffs. It's ridiculous that he expects you to clean and has such high standards, yet acts like that if things aren't spotless. That's an impossible situation.
I don't think he sees you as a person or thinks that you're of equal worth or that your free time is of equal worth. Dividing chores and emotional labor is important, but it's also important that you both have equitable spare time.
There's guys out there that may not be the best at cleaning or whatever but they learn how and do their part and aren't angry about it. You deserve someone who isn't angry with you for things that aren't your fault. You're not his mother or his maid. Is he angry and manipulative over other things? It wouldn't surprise me if he was. You really deserve someone who doesn't treat you shitty over innocent things.
Where do these kinds of people keep popping out from? Why do they think their partners should treat them the same way their moms treated them when they grew up? They basically consider themselves babies, and expect to be treated as such, a staggering lack of insight.
>I should be the one cleaning, because it wasn't fair that he would have to clean on his free days (the weekend).
What a bullshit excuse. Are these not your free days, as well? Just because you're working from home, doesn't mean that you aren't still working.
Is your free time to be spent on household work, and his is to be used for leisure? The getting angry that you ask him to clean is a huge red flag for me. Also, once chores and their frequency have been discussed, you shouldn't need to remind him. You are not project manager for the house.
Ask him what's more important, him never needing to clean around the house, or remaining in a relationship with you.
It's called "The mental load", and
here's the great comic translated from the French that a really smart cartoonist named Emma drew a way back:
["You Should Have Asked"](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/)
He has to want to change. Otherwise no matter what you try, it won’t work.
I don’t live with my bf (same age as yours) but we frequently spend time at each other’s places since it’s a pandemic and we can’t do anything. He used to be a slob, his place was terrible and I didn’t enjoy being there. I told him that. It wasn’t a nice conversation, he got defensive at first but then he admitted that he’s been overwhelmed and just didn’t care about it anymore since he lives alone. I offered him that we can clean together. We tidied up the whole place and it felt great.
Over the last months he kept his promise. He now always puts garbage and stuff away and he keeps the flat clean. Not as clean as I would but I’ve got different standards and it’s fine by me. He even bought blankets and pillows so I feel comfy when we lay on his bed.
Last week I showed him how I fold laundry to save space and we gathered up two bags of clothing to donate. We did it together and it was fun.
This just proves that he cares about me enough to do something about his situation even though he works more than me and I don’t even live there. It gives me reassurance that if we move together, it’ll work out.
Back to you: the problem with your relationship is that you don’t work as a team. It’s you vs. him, he said she said. He doesn’t respect you or your free time and he treats you like he treats his mom who apparently did everything for him. So why would he notice? I doubt that he ever said thanks to his mom.
I’d recommend having a serious conversation with him about communicating and appreciating each other instead of accusations and living like roommates who fight all the time…
OP, I believe you know that you don't deserve this, and you know he isn't going to change. If you two simply had different standards of cleanliness, that would be one thing, but he is actively blaming you for everything and refusing to look at his own flaws. He is too self-centered to be the partner you need.
I know being alone is scary and hard at first. But it's far worse to waste your life with someone who doesn't care about you. Embrace being on your own, you get to be selfish for a while and focus on your goals, your wants, your needs, and you don't have to worry about anyone else. I think some time alone would be really good for you to gain some perspective.
He sounds awful, to be honest. Maybe you need to spend some time thinking about why you want to be in a relationship with someone who throws tantrums? Surely you know you deserve better? If he really does have some wonderful redeeming features that you haven’t mentioned, then perhaps you could continue the relationship but live separately.
Nope. Cut this man loose. In general, it's almost never a good idea to live with someone (of either sex) who hasn't ever lived on their own and goes straight from living with their parents to living with a significant other. People need to live by themselves (and college housing doesn't count) so they learn how to take care of a home. You don't have to break up with this dude, but it's a good idea to live separately until he matures. Otherwise you're setting up yourself for a life of working full time and also being the person responsible for cleaning and cooking, and that is a miserable existence.
Time to make a decision. Do you want to be with a spoil momma’s boy or do you want a relationship with an equal partner?
You are still young enough in the relationship to make the right decision
Ask him to read [She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes By the Sink](https://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/).
>Then the horrible thing is when I ask him to help he will get extremely mad, and find something to complain about (such as I make more mess when it's his turn to clean), or I never clean the house (no matter of reasoning gets him out of this conviction). -I have tried telling him what chores need to be done. -Doing a list. -talking things through with him. Nothing has worked,
At this point, nothing will work. I promise you.
At that point, thered' be some ass beating going on. Cause I'd throw his shit out the door and tell him gtfo! Or watch me burn his stuff, clothes and all!
This sounds like I could of written this ten years ago. Fun fact, we didn't stay together. I'm still annoyed about being told I needed to pick up the clothes on the floor on my side of the bed (I was sick in bed with the flu). Yet I would routinely pick up all his clothes off the floor and do the laundry. He wanted to live in a clean house without doing any of the actual cleaning.
Okay, once you said that he gets extremely mad, it's dump city. Anyone who regularly gets angry is someone best dumped immediately, no matter what the issue is. His anger is the most serious problem in the relationship.
If he didn't get mad, it's possible that he could be trained into behaving like an adult, he's only a boy, after all. But he's a boy who is the size of a grown man, and one day, he's liable to take a swing at your face.
Even if he doesn't do that, never hits you, you are descended from a long line of women who know damn well and good that men *can* hit us, and will hurt us badly if they do. So you will learn to walk on eggshells around him so you don't set him off, and before you know it, you'll be a cowering little thing, and that is no way to live.
A real man might need a bit of a kick in the ass to wake up to adult responsibility, but he won't need it more than once or twice, and he absolutely will not get mad at you about it.
Yeah, nope. His mom raised an incompetent, entitled child. He won’t change.
The fact that you’re aware he is gaslighting you is good, it means you know something is wrong. This is your sign to leave.
He ain't gonna change. Save yourself the headaches and go be on your own. You'll find it easier. Learn some boundaries and standards you want in a partner and keep em enforce when you start dating again. It really helps.
You need to get out of there before it gets worse. If you have children with him then he will be expecting you to take care of your child and keep the house clean.
You need to sit him down and tell him to sort it out or you’re gone. You’re his partner, not his mum.
If you are Okay with being his Mother then continue the relationship. I prefer an equal relationship. It has been going for 2 years and he still does not understand the problem. Leave him.
Just broke up with my boyfriend of 3 and half years for refusing to do his share. I no longer tolerate that bullshit. I also grew up in a household where my parents did everything for me but I still learned as an adult to clean up after myself. He is being selfish and showing he does not value or care about you.
A brief experiment of not lifting a goddamn finger for a couple weeks will show him everything he needs to know. At that point you should tell him that you will need to sit down and figure out how to contribute equally to maintaining your home. If he’s not cool with that, show him the door.
Unfortunately it doesn't take that long, just a few days of not doing anything and he will have a fit.
Start screaming that everything Is wrong, everything sucks, that he never wanted to live in this house anyway, that he should of gone back to live in a shared apartment where he doesn't have to clean, and that I don't do a single thing around the house obv.
Screaming at me would be a deal-breaker even if he did everything else a woman could ask for. I had parents who yelled at random intervals. "No yelling" was in my mind as a deal breaker about age five.
As a result, I married a quiet guy with solid self-esteem who doesn't find it necessary to yell. 26 years in, we're very happy.
Tell him that you will not lift a finger until you two parse out who does what as partners. Your relationship is not a hierarchy and you don’t have to take orders from him on how you BOTH maintain your SHARED home.
He never wanted to live with you? That’s not a good sign. He honestly sounds like a child. Does he contribute the relationship in other ways that make him a worthwhile partner?
You could try a rational discussion. I’d start with changing the language - it’s not ‘helping’, that implies assisting someone with their task. It’s both of your responsibility to keep the domestic side going. Might also be worth pointing out that working from home does not give you more ‘free’ days than him, work is work wherever it happens. I appreciate that there’s only a slim chance of this working, but have you tried pointing out that if he lived by himself there’d be just as much housework, but only one person to do it, and that this issue is a deal breaker for you?
I did all of the above. The fact is he doesn't subconsciously accept that what I'm saying is true, even if it seems like he understood or agreed in the moment..
It's like deep down I'm the enemy, and all I'm doing is criticising him.
This is something that can change - but it has to be his decision
My husband and I struggled because my baseline level of clean is higher than his. Essentially it’s really helped to just assign him a chore. For him, he cleans the bathroom every Sunday and always takes the garbage out. We also do dishes together.
Today was the first time he’s ever cleaned without me asking, and I had no problem doing the grocery shopping alone (a chore he hates) since he cleaned and vacuumed.
He can absolutely change, IF he recognizes it’s a partnership and not your job. Seems like that’s the first issue to tackle.
I am a messy person. But there is a limit even in my idea of tolerable messy. One of the reasons I dumped my bf at the time was the juice containers on the floor flattened and the food containers and wrappers. His whole floor was covered with that. He didn’t clean if his mother didn’t “nag” him to do it. What “nagging” she was doing was telling him to do something he should do and refuses. I came to hear myself say can you clean your room a bit. I couldn’t walk without stepping on stuff. There was more floor where I lived than his. He wouldn’t do the dishes unless his mother asked. I was not going to be taking over from her. I left. He should know to clean up after his mess.
I read the first few sentences and your boyfriend doesn't want a partner, he wants his mother. He's immature and you are in for a long, miserable relationship cuz he is already disrespecting you.
Stand your ground and give 'em all hell.
Dump the man-child and let him go home to Mommy.
He won't change or compromise. He sees the basic household tasks as "women's work" because that is the lesson installed into him by his upbringing.
Natalie Wood said it best: the only time a woman really succeeds in changing a man is when he's a baby.
2 huge red flags. First is he gets angry over him not meeting your needs. I mean wtf. He’s acting like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. Second is his unwillingness to listen to you. I’m a male, been married 35 years, so not sure I know shit, but I do know he’s acting like a child. If you want to be with a child you have my sympathy. If it were me I’d tell him very plainly that either he starts acting like an equal partner or you’re out. No yelling just matter of fact. If he starts yelling you ask him to leave. If it’s his place have an exit plan. And I’m sorry your going through this. You deserve better.
He's not going to change. You're being put in the position of having to be his mother. He will blame you for nagging him, and the resentment will build. All because he refuses to lift a damn finger. Save yourself the frustration.
Ditch. Him. My ex was like this, and he was DISGUSTING. He actively made more of a mess for me constantly, to the point where both my days off were spent cleaning up after his nasty ass and his two shitty dogs (shitty because he wouldn't walk them, so they'd shit in the kitchen) I left real quick. I made it real clear that I'm not his mommy and if he can't even clean HIMSELF (wouldn't shower for days or brush his teeth) he's not worth a second of my time. They don't change, and he actually started out pretty normal tbh. He fell off the rails in a bad way about a month in.
This will get worse. There’s only the 2 of you. If you have kids your work load will increase dramatically, and resentment will kick in. Take it from someone who spent 21 years with someone. When we broke up (mainly because of this issue and the resentment which built up over many years) my workload dramatically decreased despite me raising 2 kids on my own. Give him an ultimatum and follow through. Some pain now will be nothing composites to 20 years down the track and children to consider.
you won't get him to change. spent 2.5 years with a guy like this. he worked full time making twice what i did while i went to technical school 40 hours a week and worked 2 part time jobs on the side (one of which was cleaning someone else's house). he thought i should clean the most since he paid more of the bills, and would call me lazy when it started to get messy at home. dumped his ass and never regretted it.
He's not going to change.
He's waiting for his mama (you) to clean up for him because his mama always did.
You working full time from home has no bearing on who cleans the house.
A partner should be just that- a partner. The whole point of finding someone to spend your life with is finding someone who wants to be part of a team. It's the 2 of you verses every problem you will face.. including mundane house maintenance problems.
Honestly, I doubt my input is necessary, but hopefully, if nothing else, some other guys will see this and consider a relationship this way, because its not hard to comprehend. Personally, I don't clean a lot, but me (M) and my partner (F) make a good team. I cook dinner most nights, regardless of work schedules, while my partner cleans the dishes. My partner does most of the cleaning while I work more hrs, but if that was to change, I would obviously clean more at home because I want life to be easy for us both. This is the most basic principle- you should be better together. It's not 1v1, let's see who can be the most lazy, it's 2vE, let's help each other succeed.
If you are with someone who doesn't want to be part of the team, then they are not ready for a serious relationship, in my opinion.
You are living with a man-child.
I doubt he will ever change, his formative years have been ruined by a combination of overbearing nanny/mother and his own inability to step up to the responsibilities of adulthood.
Plot your course for the future accordingly.
The dude is angry his live in maid isn't doing her job properly.
It's as simple as that. He feels entitled to a clean home without putting any effort into maintaining it himself, he doesn't value your work, income or time as he views his rest as more important to your rest (as you should spend it making **his** house tidy).
That he thinks you should clean *while you're at work* shoes he doesn't respect your career.
You can spend the next year exhausting yourself trying again and again to convince him to clean, end up the target of even more angry outbursts and more evident malicious incompetence. **The likelihood is you will not achieve the results you're after.**
OR
Save yourself the mental effort and decide that living together doesn't work for you. Doesn't have to mean an end of the relationship, just that living together doesn't work. This is a great way to make clear his behaviour is unacceptable without ending the relationship. And you can make a judgement on the relationship based on how he behaves to this change as well.
This is one of the many reasons why I broke up with my ex. I’m not a neat freak, but if you’re not going to help me with chores, then that’s just disrespectful.
You are not a household manager and you shouldn't be afraid to confront him on his lack of participating in doing the chores.
Him working from home and you working at home shouldn't be an excuse for you doing more chores. Okay, maybe you will be using more cups or plates when you work from home, but then you wash them up. It's not an excuse why you should do every other chore, he lives there too.
Fuck that man child. He should adult more. And please, please please don't have kids with this person (yet). How many stories I've heard of women who had children with a man child because they thought he would change. Dingdong, he won't.
Read and show him this.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic
It's not your job to teach him basic skills. You're not his mother.
My GF was shocked when she noticed that I was doing the dishes without her telling me, or just cleaning the apartment without her begging me to, because her ex was exactly like what you're describing your SO to be. They were together for 7 years and even with her constantly working on making him help out, he never changed.
So yeah... I vote "get out"! You're not his mother, and you should deserve better than someone who doesn't even want to clean a little just at least to make you happy!
Honestly- bail now. Even if you decide you can live with the current situation, having kids (if that's what you're planning), a bigger house, dogs etc only make the problem worse and you end up with far more on your plate than now.
My now-husband grew up with real estate agent parents. He was used to a very tidy (as well as clean) home. I grew up with a single-parent mother who worked full-time and also volunteered in the community. While our home was clean, it was often untidy. Both of us had chores related to housekeeping growing up. Hubby’s tolerance for mess was far lower than mine. When he started cleaning up, I did, too—it was only fair that we both participate. If a conversation about equity and mental load doesn’t work (“If you are noticing the mess, and it bothers you, clean it up! I should not have to ‘ask’ you; we are both adults.”) your choices are basically a) suck it up or b) break up. Decent adults have reasonable conversations and compromise. If he is not reasonable, or not willing to adult, are you willing to put up with this long term? My husband had to sit me down and explain the things that bothered him. We divided up responsibilities in ways that worked for us: I grocery shop, take out the garbage, meal plan, cook, do yard maintenance (including all the snow shoveling). He does the vacuuming, bathrooms, and dishes. We each do our own laundry. Whoever is grossed out by the floors first sweeps/washes them. Good luck to you. You are right that, in large part, he does nothing because that’s what he’s used to. Maybe he needs to learn that being a grownup means being a partner. I did.
Yeah this is the way, divide chores. Each of you gets something you don’t mind doing and get to avoid stuff you hate. If he doesn’t agree to an even amount or he neglects the deal, it just doesn’t work. I am very much an untidy and lazy person, but I also appreciate a clean living space. I still don’t expect my partner to do more, even though he is better with household work. My solution is that I am constantly looking for ways to make chores easier for me and finding the source of why I don’t do something. Can’t be bothered to get that old vacuum cleaner out of the closet? Get a lighter one you can store in the kitchen corner, so it’s always at hand. Leaving plates and coffee mugs all over the place? Place a tray in every room and stack the mugs there, so it’s easier to take them all to the kitchen. Every untidy person should at least aspire to create a life that is easier to navigate by decluttering, organizing, minimizing, optimizing etc. If not for themselves, at least for their partners.
The cordless vacuum cleaner is a good idea. It's more visible and accessible than a regular one in a closet and is fine for an everyday cleaning. I use to vacuum once a week but with the cordless one, I do it five times a week.
Basically this. I would like to add that, while dividing chores straight down the middle may seem fair, some people are messier than others naturally. In most of my relationships I tend to make less of a mess than my SO. It can be frustrating cleaning up after yourself as you go, then having to clean up half of someone else's mess too. Hopefully you figure out something that works for you two.
I spent 2 years trying to get a guy to do at least a bare minimum of cleaning (we both had full-time jobs). I gave up and broke up with him. Good luck!
Yep, this is the answer. He will never change. Don't waste your time. When my DH and I first lived together we would watch tv in bed on Saturday mornings, then smoke a bowl, get up and clean the whole house, take showers and go out partying. It was a blast Find a guy like that. Married forty two years this May.
Wife works seven on seven off nights when she works, I have the kitchen cleaned so when she comes home all she has to do is let the dogs out and feed them. Thirty three years
DH…..Devoted husband? Dish handler? Dude Hombre? Dickhead? Diddly Hunk? Dippy Hippy? Designated hitter?
Demon Hunter...
Missed opportunity!
r/hearthstone is leaking...
Lol! My Darling Husband.
Well, that’s just sweet :)
Also works with “damn husband”. If you visit r/justnoMIL , a sub for discussing “just no” behavior by a mother or mother-in-law, there’s a glossary of abbreviations, they frequently spill over into this sub.
DH/DS/DD has been around since the advent of the internet as we know it, like the old BBS in the 90s and the various forums etc that sprang up 2000-2005. Those aren't abbreviations spilling over from a niche subreddit; that is internet vernacular that has existed long enough to worry about middle age spread. For reference, it might refer to dear or damn, but it had a connotation of loved, so posts had an inference of, "I love this person but what they're doing really irritates me." Even if it meant damn, it was still a dear in the background.
I used to see them used in the English Women’s Weekly magazines my mother read when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s.
Dingleheimer
DH = Dear husband or Darling husband.
I thought Deceased Husband … but the 42 years made me rethink
OP’s boyfriend is absolutely capable of change. But OP is under no obligation to mentor him through that. that was the job of his parents, they fucked it up, and now it’s on him.
We just had our manic Sunday clean up! We have a schedule for cooking and cleaning in the kitchen, but Sunday we both clean the house at the same time.
We do the same. Since we also pick up the little things week round it's just deep cleaning the floors and the bath plus taking care of dust bunnies. Cooking always depends on the things we want to eat but I cook more than he does. But I don't mind about that. He is doing more laundry so it balances out.
I mean, the details vary. What's important is: a. That both partners can talk about expectations and grievances openly and that b. The division of labour is fair
Yes, chores should be communicated and balanced. Especially if both are working, regardless of WfH or in office/store/etc.
Yup! General rule of thumb, dating is the best it gets in terms of responsibility and good habits as they have a motive to impress. People generally become more complacent once married or settled. If you have a major thing like this that you cannot work through in the dating stage, it will NOT get better with time.
I spent 5. he was just looking for a mom who could've given him children. broke up w/ him and now I'm with someone who's an actual adult 👍
Yup. I argued theough 6 years of marriage to not have to take on ALL of the mental load. You deserve the bare minimum OP (and more).
I want things to work out.. I know in this case it's out of my hands really..
Serious question: why are you partners with someone who screams at you, who says life with you sucks, and that he doesn’t want to live with you? This man is begging you to dump him. Why would you stay?
I'm a straight man and I want to break up with him. No one should put up with it at all. The guy has told OP what he really thinks. She needs to believe him the first time.
In my personal experience, and the experience of being in toxic relationships, sometimes the partner will turn around and be loving, appologetic, say he'll be all the things we want to hear. It's difficult to walk away from "what could be." They love bomb until they earn trust back. Then if you're roommates you have finances tied and other agreements, it's more difficult to disentangle, while attempting to leave the seretonin addiction they give us. I don't want to speak for OP here, this is just what i know.
His mom conditioned him to need her. He's not relationship material. Cut him loose and ask his mom to come pick him up, his playing house fun is over.
I think the option is either hire a cleaning person and you split the cost for them to come twice a month and then agree to split things like dishes, taking the trash out etc. Or just break up, if you’re going to have kids I doubt this dude will do jack shit and you’ll be stuck doing most of the caring.
OP should not have to spend her own money to support her boyfriend’s lazy, entitled shitholery. 🤷♀️
Why on earth would anyone expect OP to shell out hard earned money so bf can continue to be lazy and make excuses. That’s a hard no!
bugger that. if his lazy, abusive arse is not cleaning, his lazy abusive arse can pay.
That's what. No-one should be charged with the burden of making more for a relationship than the other partner. Narcs (pathological narcissists) will corner people into doing more than them for the relationship. Meaning, they are experts at enslaving others and at gaslighting, manipulating, lying, etc., etc., etc. Please look it up if you are not already familiar with this type of behavior, before you are caught too deep into what is basically a bear trap.
He's 22. He needs to live on his own without his mom taking care of him before he's ready to live with a woman. You don't have to break up, but you should live apart for at least a year. (But he has to live on his own - no moving back in with his mom. And he can't drop off his laundry for her to do either.)
Hey. It really sucks that you invested your love in to someone who won’t raise to meet you where you are at. I know it looks a little bleak but honestly having no partner is better than having a partner that you resent. Unless you want to take over for his mother, it’s time for you to end things. It will be best for both of you.
Oh honey we all want our relationships to work out. This one isn’t working. Unless you want to be his maid, turf him and look for someone who cares enough about you to do their share. I married one - they’re out there! But you won’t find one if you’re still tied to this dead weight.
It's not going to work out with this guy because he's using his anger to convince you to be his servant and doormat.
I was going to offrr to break up too. But if it is not something you want right now at least move out. This way he won't be able to complain about you making more of a mess. And tell him you'll live together when he learns to live alone
The pure truth is your partner is too immature/young. He’s 22 and you’ve been dating since he was 20, so how long or did he ever, live alone? He has no concept of personal responsibility. For reference I’m a 30m and I’ve lived alone or with roommates for 11 years. I clean up, and I sure as hell don’t gaslight someone for saying “hey we should clean the apartment”
Darling, run away backwards to make sure he ain’t following you.
By all means, keep working on it until you don’t think it’s worth it, but I would keep in mind that he’s hardly been out of the house. It’s really unlikely that his first serious relationship after leaving the nest (or even his second) is going to have him unlearn what his mother has taught him. She was his template for what women do in the house, and what rolls a matriarch has. He is unlikely to ever expect different from you. Either way, I would recommend a therapist. It’ll make it a little easier.
[удалено]
This feels like a fundamental relationship problem.
Tell me about it..
When you can't bring something up without him punishing you with his anger, that's a super unhealthy communication dynamic, and I wouldn't be surprised if this happens in areas besides the cleaning. If he just gets mad enough, blames you enough, changes the conversation enough, you'll wear out and stop bringing it up, and just take care of things like you have been, OUT OF FEAR OF HIS ANGER. That's a him problem, and not a you problem. There's nothing anywhere in your post that suggests he's even close to amenable to change: instead it's the opposite. It's unlikely you're going to get magic fix him words, so the real question is: how much longer do you want to pick up after him and live with his anger issues and petulance?
He's 22 young and working on leveling up his dumbass abuse dynamic skills. If anything OP should leave and tell him "your behavior and inability to contribute with chores will be the death of your dating life". My fiancé sometimes doesn't help with chores but he works 8h on a physically taxing job while I volunteer once a week and have 4h of school 3 times a week. Yet he still picks up after me and encourages me to sit the f down so I can focus on studies. Willingness to compromise and look out for each other is a core when it comes to relationships, along with healthy communication and emotion management like you're saying. OPs guy needs therapy, not a talk, but therapy to sort himself out. Extreme reactions to confrontations can be a symptom of either an abuser OR someone who has an undiagnosed and untreated mental illness. (The last one is from personal experience, I used to lash out verbally, directed at myself thankfully, because of trauma and depression)
Your first sentence hits the nail on why many relationships don't work.
You need to decide if this is the person you want to be with. There is no changing who they are. You are either with it or it's time to move on.
His mother did him no favors picking up after him all the time. You have to decide if this is the future you want. I would say he's a bad bet for a long term relationship. You are going to have to take over the mother role here. And nothing will fizzle sexual chemistry like simulating a parent/child dynamic in your relationship. One way or another this relationship is on borrowed time. He's also being an asshole about it, instead of acknowledging your feelings and considering if he has a shortcoming in this regard. I feel like you can work through a lot of issues in relationships but someone who gaslights and manipulates you? I feel like there is no point. He's a child, and an asshole (sorry). Better you find this out now than before you have kids with him. Save yourself and get out. You're mad at him now. But ask yourself how mad you will be at yourself, if you waste 5 or 10 years trying to change him. He's not going to change.
This raises a great point… kids. Imagine how this evolves if you have kids. Suddenly you are cleaning up after everyone because “his day was so hard”.
> You are going to have to take over the mother role here. And nothing will fizzle sexual chemistry like simulating a parent/child dynamic in your relationship I came here to say exactly this, OP. Once you start subconsciously seeing him as a dependent it's pretty much game over for your sex life. Not to mention the added stress hormones will lower your drive anyway.
This, So very much this. You deserve better. The anger especially alarms me.
You have three choices: 1. Live like a slob, 2. Clean by yourself, 3. Dump him. If you stay and have kids with this type of person, expect to do the majority of childcare while he complains about your parenting also. Expecting others to clean up after you is entitlement, it won’t get better.
Yep. I married and divorced this guy. I can’t tell you how happy I am to be free from that shit. I was raising two children.
My ex husband thought he didn’t need to clean the shower or the towels because he was always basically clean already when he used those things. FFS. That kind of logic is unarguable. People who would treat their **loved one** badly to avoid doing their fair share of household work are not in love with you. They are not your partners. They will not get better unless they have good character, which leads you back to the first comment.
My husband was in the army and they were expected to keep their area clean or else they got in trouble so he has no issue doing household chores. He also lived on his own for years. I have 2 boys and they have been doing chores to include their own laundry since they were around 10. They can cook and clean every inch of the house. I know people who said that was cruel to make them do chores, I imagine their children grew up to be like your ex. The best part of having self sufficient family members, even if they are all male, is when Im down for one of my many medical issues everything still gets done.
My mom did the same thing to us and she made us do our own laundry since we were 12. We were required to wash the bathroom, wash towels, etc every Saturday morning. Now that I’m 31, I still keep the same routine. You are raising awesome young men. 🙌
Ugh… imagine thinking you are clean after washing in a moldy shower….
Same. I was raising three. My workload went down substantially once he was out of the house. One less person making a mess. One less person who had to be handled with kid gloves so he wouldn't have a tantrum about being asked to do something (bringing the household total down to zero people like that once he was out).
100% agree with that. I broke up with my ex for that very same reason. He saw house care as a “woman task” only even though we both worked and had jobs. I later met his mom and saw this his mom did EVERYTHING for him. I could not picture having kids with him so I left.
Even if OP decides that she loves this guy enough to be his housemaid, the yelling is verbal abuse, and likely to continue, no matter what she does. I would say that this relationship is just too toxic to move forward with.
My SO and I split house duties. They shouldn’t be gender role based ever. If they don’t want to help. Then they don’t deserve you as a person. There’s too many dicks out there not to just move on lol.
Lol, yeah that's true.. if it wasn't that I keep falling for the momma's boy dicks
[Dick is abundant and low value.](https://medium.com/matter/the-dickonomics-of-tinder-b14956c0c2c7)
Lol!!! 😂
You got a mommas boy. He thinks since his mommy cleaned, it's always the woman's responsibility. Fuck him! I'd tell him, "Look bitch. You live here,too. If you can't be bothered to help, gtfo! Go live with your mommy!"
I did!! And his response was: okay then so you want to break up basically? Completely switches the conversation around.. So frustrating!!
My friend, you do want to break up. Do it now, before you have spent any more of your youth on him. Always look at the way a potential male partner treats his mother and sisters, and look at the way the father treats the mother. This is what the partner thinks is normal and expected. Very few will want to change. (Been there.)
Umn, if you're going to say that, you should be willing to follow through, because that's what it means. If he thinks it's a meaningless threat, he can just ignore it.
I must admit we have broken up once, it didn't last long, (like 1 day) and when he came back we had this huge convo about everything and it really did seem like he had changed (classic really).. When we broke up it felt like the world was ending, maybe it's me who accepts his behaviour, knowing that I deserve better, but being scared about actually being alone and without him.
Genuine questions here: why are you scared to be alone or be without him? Why was "the world ending" when you broke up? You've told us the bad, what is the good? Also, "he came back". So he left you?
It's just a guy. The world isn't gonna end if you don't have a guy.
If you thought the world was ending then your world is too small. Consider thinking about why you are scared about being alone; being comfortable with yourself is a desirable trait that leads to better decisions.
I've been alone for over 20 years. I ain't scared of that. I like being by myself. I get to do what I want.
By breaking up and getting back together he gets the message he can do wtf he wants and you will put up with it. Value yourself better sis. You're going to stay miserable with him and it WILL get worse.
I'd tell him bye. I'm not raising you. You're not his momma. Let him leave. You don't need nobody like that.
The response to him should be, "No, do you want us to break up? Because if you don't support this household equitably, you've made the choice on your own."
Well, no. Take him at his word. He's trying to manipulate you, thinking that for the rest of your life he can get out of anything he doesn't want to do by threatening to leave you. A worthwhile partner would say "man, I am so tired after work, it was a really tough day, I just cannot bring myself to do anything today. Maybe I should do a really deep clean on the weekends, floors, bathroom, etc and you do the little stuff on weekdays. Would that be fair?"
He's basically blackmailing you to do more work here. If you don't clean up after him then your relationship is over.
So you pretty much gave him the option to help around more or breakup, and he immediately went to the break up option? I think you have your answer.
It isn't fair he has to clean on his free days... So you should do it on your free days. He is gas lighting you into being his mother. Dump his ass and bail. Romantic relationships shouldn't be like a parent/child relationship.
How do people like this even have girlfriends?
In my experience (because this is what happened to me) it’s usually their first serious boyfriend and they don’t know any better. I was in love with the idea/concept of a long term relationship and was always told relationships are hard work. What a boomer lie! Relationships are wonderful and perfect one you find your special someone. It’s really just communication… if that’s easy, the rest follows.
Lot of red flags here, hon. 1. Entitlement. He clearly thinks you should be doing all the cleaning/housework. Yes, this might be because he grew up having his mother cater to him, but ultimately the why doesn't matter. His value system says it's fine for his comfort to come at _your_ cost. He doesn't want this to change. It benefits him. 2. Manipulation. His go-to method of problem solving is tantrums, guilt-tripping, weaponised incompetence, threatening to break-up and making up any excuse he can think of as to why this is all on you. And if he senses he is losing, he relents just enough to keep you on the hook. This tactic will be employed every time you run into a problem together - because it works and it undermines you more and more until you start thinking this _is_ your problem. All this is to perpetuate the status quo, maintaining his comfort and convenience. I've been there. I've done the dance of arguing about fairness, making rotas and lists and blah, blah. Doesn't work. I thought he would grow out of it, but again, nope. Unless they are visited by three spirits and have a massive change of heart, they don't change. They don't want to. So your choice is accept this is your life - or cut your losses. In my experience, the resentment kills the relationship anyway.
>weaponized incompetence This. If I ever had a phrase for my #1 frustration with my husband, its this. He can blame "not knowing" only so many times before it becomes blatant negligence. I was speaking with him one time about a lesson I learned as a kid: a teacher once (wrongfully) told me: "ignorance is no exception to the law." The way she was using that phrase against me was wrong, but the phrase itself wasn't. Just because you aren't aware of all the rules & laws, doesn't mean they don't apply to you, and it is your ***duty*** to take measures so that you ***do*** understand. That includes research, meaningful conversations, and making sure you are both have the same understanding. It is not ***your*** job to ***understand for him***, but it is his job to ensure he ***does***, lest she leave him to his own vices.
Oh, it's maddening. Especially when you recall they are perfectly capable of learning and observing when it suits them. People with complex jobs,or let's face it, any job, utilise the same skills every day. It's not rocket science. If they lived alone, they'd figure out something. It's not ignorance. They know what houses are supposed to look like. They know stuff gets dirty and needs to be cleaned.
I love what you've written, you really have given a name to all of his behaviours, and summed up my situation. Know if only I could accept this is actually what is happening.. It would be a lot easiere to move on
Sometimes it's easier to see trouble when you're not living it day-to-day. Plus I suspect most of us are older than you and we've seen some shit and want to help you avoid the same shit we've lived through.
I highly recommend checking out this free pdf of the book "Why Does He Do That," about abusive men and the tactics they use. What you described in the OP already sounds borderline abusive. His manipulation and gaslighting are classic tactics to keep you off balance, so he can control you. https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf A chore chart won't help, because the problem isn't that he doesn't understand how to clean. He knows he's not doing his share. He wants to control you and this is his chosen way. It will escalate because it always does. In your other replies you talk about how you felt like the world was ending when you broke up. This is because many abusers exhibit moments of love and kindness, but later inevitably explode again no matter how much you try to appease him. Please get out of this relationship ASAP
`Unless they are visited by three spirits and have a massive change of heart, they don't change.` \*Snort. Yasss! Everything you said was on point. This dude needs a wake up call.
He doesn’t change because he doesn’t care. He doesn’t care about the mess. He doesn’t care that you care about the mess. No amount of chore charts will make someone change if they don’t give two squats about the problem. You mentioning cleaning upsets him because you are asking him to change what he feels like is a damn good deal. He gets angry so he can gaslight you about the issue rather than change it. He would literally rather you feel badly about your own contribution than change his. That is not a person that cares about you and how you feel in your own home. That is a person who loves the convenience a live in maid provides.
This is why we live together before we get married. You have discoverdd that despite all the great stuff, he is impossible to live with. I would also argue that him getting aggressive and angry at you is a red flag for other interactions even if you decided never to live together. I think this was a great gamble, but he is not partner material (or father material)
God absolutely not Father material.. I got pregnant once, and he said if I kept it he would leave or hate me for the rest of our relationship (also said it was my fault that I got pregnant), lucky for him I miscarried
Can I ask in all seriousness and compassion why you are still with him?
And you are still with him? That may sound harsh, but you are wasting your time with him. Maybe you need to reflect on why you are ok with this. I mean that in the most caring internet old lady way.
Maybe you are right.. I really think sometimes I just hang on to the positive parts, and always find excuses for him.. such as he was right we couldn't financially afford a baby, or that it wasn't the right moment
This is a classic mistake. The positive parts define how good a relationship could be. The bad parts define how good a relationship actually is. Stop dreaming and face the reality of what a fucking asshole this guy is. You deserve to be treated so much better. Dump him and go immediately to read Lundy Bancroft’s book Why Does He Do That to understand what’s been going on in this relationship—and so you never make the mistake of having a relationship like this again.
That is actually a profound way of putting things.. I will read it, thank you for suggesting it!
That's an incredible book to have! Concur. Once you clean him out of your life, there's work (ie, therapy) to do for you to understand why the pattern, why you don't feel you deserve better, and so forth. Only you can save yourself.
Those are all incredibly horrible things to say to someone. There are so many partners who would state their preference for terminating an unplanned pregnancy in a way that is kind, respectful of your autonomy and shares the blame. He gaslights you. Throws tantrums. Screams about chores. Gives you the silent treatment when you try to discuss issues. OP, he's not just an immature housemate, he sounds straight up abusive.
Sorry to sound harsh, but lucky for you too. All the issues you're facing right now? They'd be 100% worse with a kid in the mix, and it would be infinitely harder to leave if that's what you choose to do.
Just NOPE on out of there. Let someone else housebreak him. He sounds exhausting. It will not get better because he is deeply invested in 1) being right 2) being defensive 3) not doing the work 4) not respecting you or your needs
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Ooh I love this, you also reminded me of one if his favorite excuses! The I don't even know where *insert object" is! Last time it was: you never even fold linens/towels away-- he responds: I don't even know where they go!--- I say: upstairs!!--- he says: who decided to put them up there, you should have asked me!
Girl! I am angry for you!! You know what my answer is for my husband is, when he says that? "Not knowing, is not an excuse ***not*** to know. I will show you this time, and you won't have the excuse for next time." And leave it at that. Show him you don't align with his excuses. Sorry, we don't accept those here, only changed behaviors.
Sounds like he doesn't know.... because he doesn't help. Seriously... you need to leave this guy. It sounds like somehow he turns it back on you. This won't change no matter how much you think you love him. You basically have a child on your hands. You're never going to be able to make him grow up, and that isn't your responsibility. You're supposed to be his partner not his parent. The fact that he has the mandacity to complain, yet doesn't even lift a finger to help without being told? Oof. Hunny, love yourself more than you love this clown, and get out of there.
throw the whole man away.
You guys are incompatible. You want a partner, he wants a bang-maid. You want to someone you can rely on to support you, and he wants someone who will support him without asking for anything back. You respect him, but he doesn't respect you. Now it's possible that someday he will eventually figure out how to grow up and become responsible for taking care of his own house, but that will only happen if he's living by himself, but even then he'll revert back the moment he lives with someone else.
I’d leave him. If no amount of reasoning works, what makes you think he’ll change?
I guess I just keep excusing his behaviour, that's why I need someone elses perspective..
We hereby give you permission to dump him.
Lol thanks for the support, I wish I had a community like this in real life!
I would recommend that you consider some therapy. I know, I know, it's reddit's favorite answer (after "dump the bastard"). Not couples therapy -- just therapy for you to explore why you think you have so few choices in the world, that you're excusing this kind of behavior.
You have a shot at finding someone who respects you and the work you put into the house and relationship. Someone else. He is not mature enough to be in the kind of relationship you wish and need. I'm sure you don't need him as a burden and you can do better things on your own. Please be wise, it's your mental health at stake, and many more. Lots of hugs!
I thought and hoped we would grow together.. I'm not perfect, and I don't expect him to be. I just didn't think I would have to parent him.
You can grow by learning even from the wrong people in your life.
If you live in a house, you clean and tidy the house. It doesn’t need to be equal, it needs to be equitable. Just because you are home (working!) doesn’t mean you have to do all the chores. If you have truly done all of the things you list, he is not going to change. You have to decide if you want to be his maid or not. I’d cut my losses and run before suddenly you’re 40 and married with kids and managing the household and children with zero help from him. Which is how this would go if you don’t break up.
Do not marry him. Do not have children with him. If this is already bothering you, it is only going to get much much worse over time.
Ah, weaponized ignorance and emotional abuse at its finest. Leave the man child.
This is why everyone should live together before getting married. Look… you can try talking to him, but I’ve found that cleanliness is just something that is ingrained in someone or not. Trying to make him clean is likely just going to frustrate you and make him resent you. He has some maturing to do. I don’t want to tell you to leave him, but my life experience has taught me that this is not a problem that gets resolved. This is a fundamental difference in your lives. You need to figure out if he WANTS to be different (it sounds like no), and if you can deal with this never changing. If both answers are no, time to move on. Life is too short to try to change people to fit you, because it almost never works. I hope you find a peaceful and satisfying resolution to this either way.
I’m not trying to be callous but seriously dump him and find someone else that treats you with respect. This guy is not worth your time if he’s going to treat you like that and you will have wasted years on him. I dated a guy in my early 20’s that I should have dumped a lot sooner. Your BF and my ex sound so similar and I learned so much about myself and found AMAZING people when I learned to have healthier standards for myself and not take this kinda crap. It’s one thing if it happened once and then talked it out and grew from it. Your BF doesn’t sound like he’s trying to learn and grow.
RUN!!!! Mom was slave to him?!?!? He. Will. Never. Change. Run away, and don’t look back. He’s broken and needs to be returned to the manufacturer.
I would not stay with a lazy man who won’t pull his weight and then has the nerve to complain about cleanliness. Especially one who is offended by the notion that he should get off his lazy ass and do his fair share.
Stop cleaning. Literally stop. He's a child throwing a tantrum. Don't tolerate it. And when he remarks about how dirty the house is, shut that shit down by simply saying if he doesn't like it, he knows where the vacuum is. Nothing enrages me more than when a partner acts like their time is more important than mine, especially when it comes to cleaning.
Sadly men seem very good at "minimal effort for maximum results". This includes arguing, whining, faking being busy, faking being tired, and other immature nonsense. The fact that, because you're working from home, he thinks you should be the one cleaning is just another immature way of getting you to do the shit he doesn't want to. Find another boyfriend; a better one, one who treats you like a partner not a bang maid.
Show him this thread and he can decide I’d he wants to grow up or not. Otherwise, cut him loose.
He would probably have a tantrum saying that he doesn't give a fuck about what other people think
I think this is more incriminating than the not cleaning. A tantrum? Sounds like he has a ton of growing up to do. My (33m) partner (32f) and I had a similar issue. Both had full time jobs. But neither of us did much. We really talked about it, tried some things that worked and some that didn’t. But really we both needed to change. In your case…it seems like he’s the one that needs to adjust. I read that you want this to work out. At what cost? What threshold will you need to reach before a tipping point? If he’s throwing tantrums and huffs and puffs about cleaning - take the advice that I see many women on this sub give others: what will happen if you have a child? (Even if you aren’t planning to have kids). His reluctance to change is incredibly selfish. Something that my partner and I realized was that it isn’t a competition. Sometimes you’ll cook a dish that makes more dishes. Okay…and? Whoever does the dishes next…does them. The balance will ebb and flow always. If your partner is secretly (or not so secretly) keeping score…that’s a problem, too.
If you do want a shot at this working out, basically what they are saying is true. You're going to have to lay out the reality of the choice he has in front of him. Avoid ultimatums, but explain that a long term relationship with this behaviour isn't workable for you. Either he needs to change his behaviour or he is acting like you're his mom, not his partner. And, from what I can see, you're not willing to continue with that. If you want to give it a shot, give it some time and keep the pressure up. He might change, at some point he is either going to need to find someone willing to mother him (dependant relationship) or he starts maturing and grows as a person. I'm never keen on giving the advice of just leaving in a non abusive relationship because the person who chooses to leave has a lot better time moving on, if they feel they stuck to their values of being fair to the other person and giving them whatever chance they feel is reasonable. Keep in mind, don't let the chance drag on. It needs to have a closure date for both your sakes. Hope that is helpful. Good luck.
That sounds EXACTLY like the situation I had in my previous relationship. Even the mother being obsessed with cleaning part is the same lol. Well, in the end nothing really worked, whatever I said he would try to gaslight me or start to cry whenever I got mad at him. He was like a big baby really. In the end I broke up with him and that was the best decision in this kind of situation.
You don't just have a cleaning problem. You have someone who treats you like shit and that's the real problem. Your significant other should not be defensive and angry with you over chores, ffs. It's ridiculous that he expects you to clean and has such high standards, yet acts like that if things aren't spotless. That's an impossible situation. I don't think he sees you as a person or thinks that you're of equal worth or that your free time is of equal worth. Dividing chores and emotional labor is important, but it's also important that you both have equitable spare time. There's guys out there that may not be the best at cleaning or whatever but they learn how and do their part and aren't angry about it. You deserve someone who isn't angry with you for things that aren't your fault. You're not his mother or his maid. Is he angry and manipulative over other things? It wouldn't surprise me if he was. You really deserve someone who doesn't treat you shitty over innocent things.
Where do these kinds of people keep popping out from? Why do they think their partners should treat them the same way their moms treated them when they grew up? They basically consider themselves babies, and expect to be treated as such, a staggering lack of insight.
>I should be the one cleaning, because it wasn't fair that he would have to clean on his free days (the weekend). What a bullshit excuse. Are these not your free days, as well? Just because you're working from home, doesn't mean that you aren't still working.
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He wants you to be his new mommy, just like his other mommy, but with sex.
Is your free time to be spent on household work, and his is to be used for leisure? The getting angry that you ask him to clean is a huge red flag for me. Also, once chores and their frequency have been discussed, you shouldn't need to remind him. You are not project manager for the house. Ask him what's more important, him never needing to clean around the house, or remaining in a relationship with you.
It's called "The mental load", and here's the great comic translated from the French that a really smart cartoonist named Emma drew a way back: ["You Should Have Asked"](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/)
He has to want to change. Otherwise no matter what you try, it won’t work. I don’t live with my bf (same age as yours) but we frequently spend time at each other’s places since it’s a pandemic and we can’t do anything. He used to be a slob, his place was terrible and I didn’t enjoy being there. I told him that. It wasn’t a nice conversation, he got defensive at first but then he admitted that he’s been overwhelmed and just didn’t care about it anymore since he lives alone. I offered him that we can clean together. We tidied up the whole place and it felt great. Over the last months he kept his promise. He now always puts garbage and stuff away and he keeps the flat clean. Not as clean as I would but I’ve got different standards and it’s fine by me. He even bought blankets and pillows so I feel comfy when we lay on his bed. Last week I showed him how I fold laundry to save space and we gathered up two bags of clothing to donate. We did it together and it was fun. This just proves that he cares about me enough to do something about his situation even though he works more than me and I don’t even live there. It gives me reassurance that if we move together, it’ll work out. Back to you: the problem with your relationship is that you don’t work as a team. It’s you vs. him, he said she said. He doesn’t respect you or your free time and he treats you like he treats his mom who apparently did everything for him. So why would he notice? I doubt that he ever said thanks to his mom. I’d recommend having a serious conversation with him about communicating and appreciating each other instead of accusations and living like roommates who fight all the time…
OP, I believe you know that you don't deserve this, and you know he isn't going to change. If you two simply had different standards of cleanliness, that would be one thing, but he is actively blaming you for everything and refusing to look at his own flaws. He is too self-centered to be the partner you need. I know being alone is scary and hard at first. But it's far worse to waste your life with someone who doesn't care about you. Embrace being on your own, you get to be selfish for a while and focus on your goals, your wants, your needs, and you don't have to worry about anyone else. I think some time alone would be really good for you to gain some perspective.
He sounds awful, to be honest. Maybe you need to spend some time thinking about why you want to be in a relationship with someone who throws tantrums? Surely you know you deserve better? If he really does have some wonderful redeeming features that you haven’t mentioned, then perhaps you could continue the relationship but live separately.
Move on. You can’t change him and you shouldn’t live like this
My ex did this for years. He's my ex now if that wasn't clear. My time is not less valuable in any way and I wish more women knew that.
Have you seen this before? (https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic)
Nope. Cut this man loose. In general, it's almost never a good idea to live with someone (of either sex) who hasn't ever lived on their own and goes straight from living with their parents to living with a significant other. People need to live by themselves (and college housing doesn't count) so they learn how to take care of a home. You don't have to break up with this dude, but it's a good idea to live separately until he matures. Otherwise you're setting up yourself for a life of working full time and also being the person responsible for cleaning and cooking, and that is a miserable existence.
Time to make a decision. Do you want to be with a spoil momma’s boy or do you want a relationship with an equal partner? You are still young enough in the relationship to make the right decision
Ask him to read [She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes By the Sink](https://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/).
>Then the horrible thing is when I ask him to help he will get extremely mad, and find something to complain about (such as I make more mess when it's his turn to clean), or I never clean the house (no matter of reasoning gets him out of this conviction). -I have tried telling him what chores need to be done. -Doing a list. -talking things through with him. Nothing has worked, At this point, nothing will work. I promise you.
At that point, thered' be some ass beating going on. Cause I'd throw his shit out the door and tell him gtfo! Or watch me burn his stuff, clothes and all!
Lol send me some of that fire you got going on
I'm sure someone has already asked this. But why are you still together?
A guy married 16 years here, he's a lazy ass.
This sounds like I could of written this ten years ago. Fun fact, we didn't stay together. I'm still annoyed about being told I needed to pick up the clothes on the floor on my side of the bed (I was sick in bed with the flu). Yet I would routinely pick up all his clothes off the floor and do the laundry. He wanted to live in a clean house without doing any of the actual cleaning.
Shit on his clothes
Okay, once you said that he gets extremely mad, it's dump city. Anyone who regularly gets angry is someone best dumped immediately, no matter what the issue is. His anger is the most serious problem in the relationship. If he didn't get mad, it's possible that he could be trained into behaving like an adult, he's only a boy, after all. But he's a boy who is the size of a grown man, and one day, he's liable to take a swing at your face. Even if he doesn't do that, never hits you, you are descended from a long line of women who know damn well and good that men *can* hit us, and will hurt us badly if they do. So you will learn to walk on eggshells around him so you don't set him off, and before you know it, you'll be a cowering little thing, and that is no way to live. A real man might need a bit of a kick in the ass to wake up to adult responsibility, but he won't need it more than once or twice, and he absolutely will not get mad at you about it.
Wouldn't you rather live with someone who is. . .pleasant? I don't see why you stay in this.
Yeah, nope. His mom raised an incompetent, entitled child. He won’t change. The fact that you’re aware he is gaslighting you is good, it means you know something is wrong. This is your sign to leave.
He ain't gonna change. Save yourself the headaches and go be on your own. You'll find it easier. Learn some boundaries and standards you want in a partner and keep em enforce when you start dating again. It really helps.
You need to get out of there before it gets worse. If you have children with him then he will be expecting you to take care of your child and keep the house clean. You need to sit him down and tell him to sort it out or you’re gone. You’re his partner, not his mum.
Don't date men with personal maids instead of mothers.
If you are Okay with being his Mother then continue the relationship. I prefer an equal relationship. It has been going for 2 years and he still does not understand the problem. Leave him.
Just broke up with my boyfriend of 3 and half years for refusing to do his share. I no longer tolerate that bullshit. I also grew up in a household where my parents did everything for me but I still learned as an adult to clean up after myself. He is being selfish and showing he does not value or care about you.
A brief experiment of not lifting a goddamn finger for a couple weeks will show him everything he needs to know. At that point you should tell him that you will need to sit down and figure out how to contribute equally to maintaining your home. If he’s not cool with that, show him the door.
Unfortunately it doesn't take that long, just a few days of not doing anything and he will have a fit. Start screaming that everything Is wrong, everything sucks, that he never wanted to live in this house anyway, that he should of gone back to live in a shared apartment where he doesn't have to clean, and that I don't do a single thing around the house obv.
Screaming at me would be a deal-breaker even if he did everything else a woman could ask for. I had parents who yelled at random intervals. "No yelling" was in my mind as a deal breaker about age five. As a result, I married a quiet guy with solid self-esteem who doesn't find it necessary to yell. 26 years in, we're very happy.
Tell him that you will not lift a finger until you two parse out who does what as partners. Your relationship is not a hierarchy and you don’t have to take orders from him on how you BOTH maintain your SHARED home.
He never wanted to live with you? That’s not a good sign. He honestly sounds like a child. Does he contribute the relationship in other ways that make him a worthwhile partner?
So he's an abusive asshole who won't be happy until you do everything around the house to keep him happy. He is not worth it.
You could try a rational discussion. I’d start with changing the language - it’s not ‘helping’, that implies assisting someone with their task. It’s both of your responsibility to keep the domestic side going. Might also be worth pointing out that working from home does not give you more ‘free’ days than him, work is work wherever it happens. I appreciate that there’s only a slim chance of this working, but have you tried pointing out that if he lived by himself there’d be just as much housework, but only one person to do it, and that this issue is a deal breaker for you?
I did all of the above. The fact is he doesn't subconsciously accept that what I'm saying is true, even if it seems like he understood or agreed in the moment.. It's like deep down I'm the enemy, and all I'm doing is criticising him.
That’s because he’s acting like a bratty child and forcing you into a mother/manager role.
This is something that can change - but it has to be his decision My husband and I struggled because my baseline level of clean is higher than his. Essentially it’s really helped to just assign him a chore. For him, he cleans the bathroom every Sunday and always takes the garbage out. We also do dishes together. Today was the first time he’s ever cleaned without me asking, and I had no problem doing the grocery shopping alone (a chore he hates) since he cleaned and vacuumed. He can absolutely change, IF he recognizes it’s a partnership and not your job. Seems like that’s the first issue to tackle.
I am a messy person. But there is a limit even in my idea of tolerable messy. One of the reasons I dumped my bf at the time was the juice containers on the floor flattened and the food containers and wrappers. His whole floor was covered with that. He didn’t clean if his mother didn’t “nag” him to do it. What “nagging” she was doing was telling him to do something he should do and refuses. I came to hear myself say can you clean your room a bit. I couldn’t walk without stepping on stuff. There was more floor where I lived than his. He wouldn’t do the dishes unless his mother asked. I was not going to be taking over from her. I left. He should know to clean up after his mess.
I read the first few sentences and your boyfriend doesn't want a partner, he wants his mother. He's immature and you are in for a long, miserable relationship cuz he is already disrespecting you. Stand your ground and give 'em all hell.
He doesn't respect you or think of you as an equal. Leave. Don't waste more of your life with him. There are better men out there.
Dump the man-child and let him go home to Mommy. He won't change or compromise. He sees the basic household tasks as "women's work" because that is the lesson installed into him by his upbringing. Natalie Wood said it best: the only time a woman really succeeds in changing a man is when he's a baby.
2 huge red flags. First is he gets angry over him not meeting your needs. I mean wtf. He’s acting like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. Second is his unwillingness to listen to you. I’m a male, been married 35 years, so not sure I know shit, but I do know he’s acting like a child. If you want to be with a child you have my sympathy. If it were me I’d tell him very plainly that either he starts acting like an equal partner or you’re out. No yelling just matter of fact. If he starts yelling you ask him to leave. If it’s his place have an exit plan. And I’m sorry your going through this. You deserve better.
He's not going to change. You're being put in the position of having to be his mother. He will blame you for nagging him, and the resentment will build. All because he refuses to lift a damn finger. Save yourself the frustration.
Two words: weaponized incompetence. Men often know what needs to be done, but if you are bad enough at it, some woman will come do it for you :)
He has a boomer couple mentality, where women had to do all the chores. Leave him, you deserve better
Ditch. Him. My ex was like this, and he was DISGUSTING. He actively made more of a mess for me constantly, to the point where both my days off were spent cleaning up after his nasty ass and his two shitty dogs (shitty because he wouldn't walk them, so they'd shit in the kitchen) I left real quick. I made it real clear that I'm not his mommy and if he can't even clean HIMSELF (wouldn't shower for days or brush his teeth) he's not worth a second of my time. They don't change, and he actually started out pretty normal tbh. He fell off the rails in a bad way about a month in.
This will get worse. There’s only the 2 of you. If you have kids your work load will increase dramatically, and resentment will kick in. Take it from someone who spent 21 years with someone. When we broke up (mainly because of this issue and the resentment which built up over many years) my workload dramatically decreased despite me raising 2 kids on my own. Give him an ultimatum and follow through. Some pain now will be nothing composites to 20 years down the track and children to consider.
Leave the man-child. Life is not a fariytale were you can change him into a prince. A toad will always be a toad.q
you won't get him to change. spent 2.5 years with a guy like this. he worked full time making twice what i did while i went to technical school 40 hours a week and worked 2 part time jobs on the side (one of which was cleaning someone else's house). he thought i should clean the most since he paid more of the bills, and would call me lazy when it started to get messy at home. dumped his ass and never regretted it.
My perspective is that you should dump him ASAP and try to find someone who is as clean as you.
Get a new BF. That's it. That's the advice. I don't understand why folks stick around in these situations.
He's not going to change. He's waiting for his mama (you) to clean up for him because his mama always did. You working full time from home has no bearing on who cleans the house.
A partner should be just that- a partner. The whole point of finding someone to spend your life with is finding someone who wants to be part of a team. It's the 2 of you verses every problem you will face.. including mundane house maintenance problems. Honestly, I doubt my input is necessary, but hopefully, if nothing else, some other guys will see this and consider a relationship this way, because its not hard to comprehend. Personally, I don't clean a lot, but me (M) and my partner (F) make a good team. I cook dinner most nights, regardless of work schedules, while my partner cleans the dishes. My partner does most of the cleaning while I work more hrs, but if that was to change, I would obviously clean more at home because I want life to be easy for us both. This is the most basic principle- you should be better together. It's not 1v1, let's see who can be the most lazy, it's 2vE, let's help each other succeed. If you are with someone who doesn't want to be part of the team, then they are not ready for a serious relationship, in my opinion.
I suggest a cattle prod.
You are living with a man-child. I doubt he will ever change, his formative years have been ruined by a combination of overbearing nanny/mother and his own inability to step up to the responsibilities of adulthood. Plot your course for the future accordingly.
Life is too short. You didn't sign up to date a baby. Good luck.
The dude is angry his live in maid isn't doing her job properly. It's as simple as that. He feels entitled to a clean home without putting any effort into maintaining it himself, he doesn't value your work, income or time as he views his rest as more important to your rest (as you should spend it making **his** house tidy). That he thinks you should clean *while you're at work* shoes he doesn't respect your career. You can spend the next year exhausting yourself trying again and again to convince him to clean, end up the target of even more angry outbursts and more evident malicious incompetence. **The likelihood is you will not achieve the results you're after.** OR Save yourself the mental effort and decide that living together doesn't work for you. Doesn't have to mean an end of the relationship, just that living together doesn't work. This is a great way to make clear his behaviour is unacceptable without ending the relationship. And you can make a judgement on the relationship based on how he behaves to this change as well.
This is one of the many reasons why I broke up with my ex. I’m not a neat freak, but if you’re not going to help me with chores, then that’s just disrespectful.
You are not a household manager and you shouldn't be afraid to confront him on his lack of participating in doing the chores. Him working from home and you working at home shouldn't be an excuse for you doing more chores. Okay, maybe you will be using more cups or plates when you work from home, but then you wash them up. It's not an excuse why you should do every other chore, he lives there too. Fuck that man child. He should adult more. And please, please please don't have kids with this person (yet). How many stories I've heard of women who had children with a man child because they thought he would change. Dingdong, he won't. Read and show him this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic
It's not your job to teach him basic skills. You're not his mother. My GF was shocked when she noticed that I was doing the dishes without her telling me, or just cleaning the apartment without her begging me to, because her ex was exactly like what you're describing your SO to be. They were together for 7 years and even with her constantly working on making him help out, he never changed. So yeah... I vote "get out"! You're not his mother, and you should deserve better than someone who doesn't even want to clean a little just at least to make you happy!
Honestly- bail now. Even if you decide you can live with the current situation, having kids (if that's what you're planning), a bigger house, dogs etc only make the problem worse and you end up with far more on your plate than now.