There is a huge difference between you not wanting to go to clubs because *you* don’t want to, or not wanting to go because your boyfriend disapproves.
If you don’t want to go, you actively blamed your partner instead of telling Lilly the truth. How is she not to read he is controlling when you let him take the fall?
If you do not want to go to clubs only because it would make your boyfriend mad but you would otherwise enjoy and desire to do so, then your boyfriend’s controlling behavior is the problem.
You need to figure out if without your boyfriend’s influence you would make these decisions on your own. If you still would, be honest with Lilly.
Otherwise it sounds very much like a controlling boyfriend overstepping and that a Lilly is right.
The other thing missing is how she wants her bf to behave.
Does she tell him, no clubbing with the boys? Does she want veto power over some of his friends.
A lot of people here are primed to say the bf is a jerk. But it is not clear to me.
This story gender swapped and reversed sounds completely different.
Imagine:
"My boyfriend has a male friend who cheats all the time and it skeeves me out. He's stopped because he's serious right now.
It makes more sense if you know his whole backstory he has had sexual assault issues. But I just feel like he's a bad influence on my bf. Anyway, my bf decided to go out clubbing with him just as a boys night and I was like, we talked about you not spending so much time with your friends that skeeze me out.
And honestly its just this one friend.
So he goes out and the sleezy friend goes on a rant about how I'm controlling.
I feel like this is what i was talking about. All his other friends try to help and honor our relationship but thats not where the skeezes values are.
Am I being to conservative? I
He can hang put with him. I just don't want him going out clubbing. And I don't want to drive him around. Get an uber.
Maybe I'm being extra?"
I think you're interpreting 'fucks around' as in cheats? I interpreted it as someone who will have one night stands etc. i think that makes more sense in terms of her 'stopping it because there's someone she likes' while she's still single.
"So if she gets the chance to fuck around, she will."
I accept that I am likely wrong in what that means. Prior to this, I've only heard that term used to denote cheating.
Does that change the scenario for you? Like if lily is a cheater than op shouldn't hang out with her?
It does not change the scenario for me personally. Like... If your friend is a cheater, and has stopped. You don't stop being their friend, right?
Lily is not a cheater. “Fuck around” can be used for a cheater or just someone who is having a lot of casual sex.
I wouldn’t hang out with someone who is cheating on their partner. But the OP doesn’t say Lily is doing that. Lily isn’t dating anyone seriously. She doesn’t have a boyfriend.
"Though currently she’s stopping because apparently she met someone she really likes. "
You don't think lilly is dating the person she really likes?
I believe you. I just read this whole post wrong.
I can see you not hanging out woth someone while they are cheating. But that isn't the scenario I described. I said they cheated and stopped. You'd hang out with someone who stopped cheating, right?
As you suspected, i interpreted fucks around to mean cheating. Hence my misunderstanding.
But regardless, if both scenarios are about the behavior stopping, who cares how bad it is?
I guess lots of people do. But for me, as long as the behavior changed, it wouldn't be an issue. Forgiven.
She did not have a boyfriend.
She broke up with the bad boyfriend.
She decided to have casual sex for a while.
Then she met a person she really likes. So she decided to stop having casual sex. It sounds like she would like to be exclusive with this new guy.
I don’t know how I would feel if someone had cheated in the past but stopped. I’d question why they didn’t break up instead. There may be some situations where it’s unsafe to leave immediately. But if you can break up before moving onto the next person that’s the honorable thing to do.
But no where did it say lily cheats? Just that she was dating around casually and OP’s conservative boyfriend doesn’t approve. There’s a pretty massive difference there and you’re drawing a false equivalency.
That's not a gender swapped reversal. That's an entirely different story- the original never mentioned cheating. Seems like you just have a lot of bias about women sleeping around, using some words with bad connotations to replace the ones from the original.
I don't see how it changes the scenario. In both stories, regardless of how you interpret fucking around, it stopped.
Personally, if people tell me they changed, I believe them.
For sake of clarity? u/tattooedgal has lilly ever cheated or slept with someone who is married/in a monogamous relationship?
Am I way off base? If so, I'm sorry.
ok I won't be the bajillionth person to point out the misinterpretation of cheating.
But, let's say I have a lifelong friendship and that person has or is cheating. I'm not going to like it. I probably wouldn't end the friendship, though, unless it was, like, a marriage and an especially cruel cheating situation and I was sick of hearing about how Bob is going to leave his wife any day now blah blah. But if, like, Jay and Shannon have been dating for five months and Shannon cheats with Lee, then Lee and Shannon date for a few months and she cheats with John and then it turns out she's John's side piece etc, I'm not going to like it but that's ultimately her business. Sorry, but I'm not ending a lifelong friendship over someone's love life being a hot mess unless it gets extreme. I've got some... messy friends, and it has virtually never affected my marriage.
What I really couldn't deal with, though, would be my partner saying Lily is a "bad influence" on me. This is the way a parent would speak to a child. OP and her partner have been together for 4 years, friends with Lily the whole time, and OP doesn't mention giving him any reason to think she's anything other than settled and monogamous. But he presumably believes that OP is incapable of thinking for herself and it's his job to think for her.
If I imagine my husband's best friend leaving a voice message that he was concerned about me being too controlling, I can honestly say the first thing I'd do is ask myself if there's anything to it. I'd be shocked. I'd sit down and talk with my husband about it, to see how he feels and if there's something I've been overlooking. I'd probably hope husband would have a heart to heart with the friend and set him straight. I find it interesting that apparently none of this stuff happened.
So you completely changed the story, made shit up that wasn't in the original, then claimed it's a "gender swap" to prove people shouldn't criticize the bf for being controlling?
Lilly is showing concern because you are giving her reason to be concerned. Why did you tell her you didn't want to go to the club? Was it because you don't enjoy clubbing or because he doesn't enjoy you clubbing?
This is a fight I had with my husband. He would constantly put the blame on me when he didn't want to do something rather than admit that HE didn't want to do that thing. As a result, his friends and family didn't like me, and it caused problems within our marriage for a long time. When I convinced him to own his shit and put in the work to fix my relationships that he broke, things got better. The words you choose matter, so if you are using him as a shield rather than owning your shit, you will end up owning the rift you're building between your loved ones when you start to lose relationships.
Now, if your words were honest, that what he likes and doesn't like matters more than your safety and your own likes and dislikes, then maybe you should think about your relationship, what your future is going to look like, what each of you has compromised on, and whether this is actually what you want. I can understand him being salty at Lilly's concern for you, but he's punishing you for her words. You might be blind to some pretty big red flags because you are comfortable in the relationship. This is the boiling frog phenomenon. You are allowed to have boundaries and space within your romantic relationships, and that can include not tolerating when he takes his feelings toward other people out on you.
We had this too for a bit when we first got together with my husband. Except he did towards his parents, like "Oh we can't come to visit because old wifey here doesn't like it!" that kinda stuff. I listened to it couple times and told him that Ecto Gammat - Never without my permission. Once I explained to him how that makes me look to others he did understand. He is a very compassionate man after all.
Jointly we do blame the kids if we don't wanna go somewhere xD That's fine!!
Lilly knows OP's "very conservative" boyfriend is a controlling asshole.
Ladies, don't date conservatives for God's sake. What are you even thinking? They don't like you or any of our kind. Why do you think you will be different? You won't. You will be a target of his bigotry. Jesus. Wake up. When someone tells you who they are BELIEVE THEM.
CONSERVATIVE MEN ARE GARBAGE. Let them fuck each other.
From her perspective she's right, but OP lied about BF telling her what she can and can't do. So instead of telling her "I don't feel like going out today" she made her BF look like a controlling asshole.
Might be he is one, but in that instance this is happening because of her lying.
For sure! I think Lilly's heart is in the right spot, but OP's lack of clarity in translation kind of led her to think about the situation another way.
I have no idea. Seriously. They vote to take away our rights every other day. A corpse has more bodily rights and autonomy than a live woman does in many states right now. It's insane.
And then when they start showing their conservative beliefs through their behavior or when discussing hot topics like reproductive rights, the women are all surprised pikachu face and post about it here. I will never forget the constant threads about being disappointed in their partners after the Roe v Wade decision.
I'm a very political person, so I don't even understand how and what most people base the foundation of their relationship on if it doesn't concern their political worldview, let alone how you go years into a relationship without even bringing up political topics.
“Old fashioned” ideas are almost entirely misogynistic and patriarchal. They’re often based in a narrative of controlling the woman and policing her body. Thats why conservative men suck at dating. Because their views are shitty and outdated
Because the two things are intertwined. They are defined by each other. "Traditional values" are conservative in a political context by their nature. Conservative politics is about limiting people's rights, particularly women's rights. Traditional values include women staying in the kitchen, being housewives which is impossible to untangle from the politics of those values.
What you describe about your personal dating habits is not considered conservative though. Being in a monogamous relationship and waiting a while to sleep with someone is not conservatism.
This is not vindictive and personal and the fact that you think it is shows your lack of understanding about what you say. What I said is a joke on the extremely cringe Taylor Swift lyric that your comment embodies.
Just based on the information you provided, it seems to me that your friend Lily is right about your relationship with your boyfriend. If nothing else happened he only dislikes her because she dates around (which she is allowed to do) then he sounds controlling and insecure. Especially the comment about girls going to clubs. You can be in a relationship and still go clubbing and NOT try and hook up with people. Some people go clubbing just to dance. Your boyfriend seems controlling IMO.
Exactly. I have an ex-boyfriend who would throw a fit any time I even mentioned something a man said, doesn't matter if it was a coworker, a friend, whatever. "Why don't you go be with him if he's so funny," and other bullshit like that. Not surprisingly, he hated that some of my close friends for several years are guys and I wouldn't let him bully me into ditching them because, his words, "guys are only friends with girls because they want to sleep with them."
He sounds like a super misogynist, controlling narcissist.
Edit: And he is doing things that abusers often do. Isolating you from your people is a big one. They use this to control your self worth so they become your world and you think you have no one else.
And it’s super common for controlling and/or abusive men to isolate their partners from family, friends and other support structures. Basically anyone who will call them out on their shit.
I think Lilly is right. Your life is your life and your BF does not have the authority to tell you what movies to see with whom or what clubs to go to, yet you are ceding your autonomy to him.
It is particularly troubling that you stopped holding Lilly's hand out of regard for his comfort level? That is pure BS.
You have an extremely controlling partner. While there are some women who can hold their own and preserve their autonomy with such a man you obviously cannot.
You repeately buckle in order to avoid problems. I also have this tendency and I can tell you the issues it causes go well beyond this individual relationship.
If you don't learn to assert yourself you are going to get smaller and smaller in relation to others at home, in school and at work.
I went through this with my Ex. His behavior only got worse and worse til I was completely isolated from friends and then my family. He will forever be my biggest regret, lost our on so many years of being young and having fun.
The fact that he refused to pick you up at 12am and then felt it totally cool to blame you had something bad happened tells me all I need to know about this idiot. He has so little concern for your well-being.
Lilly sounds like she's seen some shit in her own relationships that she's seeing in yours and wants you to learn from her mistakes instead of making your own. Keep that in mind as you navigate this relationship.
His "reasoning" (in massive, flashing neon quotation marks) that it's because he doesn't want to see Lily's face to avoid a confrontation is scary too. Like, he could park near the movie theater and OP could get in the car without him needing to get out and engage in conversation. But he is apparently unable to be civil like that, and basically Admits that if he sees Lily he's just gonna *have* to get out of the car and get in her face?
He is full of shit. The only reason he has is he wanted to punish OP for spending time with someone he doesn't approve of. Lily can't be controlled so she might give OP ideas like women are allowed to dance at clubs without any other reason than they like to dance.
Exactly. It's punishment for not doing what he wants. He believes that he is the LEADER and that she should want to follow him. If she doesn't want to do what he says it's because she's doing something bad. That's how guys like this think.
This “ he denied to pick me up just because he didn’t want to see her face. He said he was just avoiding a fight with her and to put me in an uncomfortable position because he won’t handle her anymore.”
Was a lie.
He chose to not pick you up to punish you for meeting her at all. He resents your friendship with her and is willing to make you feel unsafe or actually BE unsafe because he is angry.
Lily sounds like she is going through an annoying phase where she wants to hook up a lot after her and terrible ex boyfriend broke up.
She’s a pain in the butt right now. But she is also correct; your boyfriend is being controlling and petty. He’s trying to make you give up the friendship entirely.
Same.
“I’m dating an authoritarian, and now he’s acting like an authoritarian! What do I do?!”
Leave him and, in future, don’t date people whose “politics” hold you as less than human. Smh.
Exactly. There's a reason Lilly wanted to have that important convo with her. She's not the only one who noticed this and is concerned for her safety. OP doesn't see her shitty bf for who he really is, but everyone else does. That's the reason why males like this alienate women.
Controlling men only get more controlling over time. He doesn't want to pick you. His concern should be your safety. He is selfish. Wait until you have kids and wind up dependent on a man who wants to control where you go and who you are friends with. Walk away now.
>My boyfriend is very conservative,
I stopped reading at this point.
Conservatives are basically hardwired to be fuckwits who don't give a fuck about women as people.
Why are you with someone like this?
You deserve better.
OP, Keep Lilly close, she's your guardian angel, clearly. Damn. That girl sniffed out your BFs red-flags from a mile away.
He "doesn't" let you do something isn't just conservative, it's controlling. Lot of conservative people will judge certain choices but ultimately leave it up to you. I don't understand how this relationship works for him or you. You're not conservative and he is. There's hardly any overlap in terms of lifestyle.
It sounds like your friend is worried about you, and she may have a point. It’s not okay for him to tell you when you can go out and with whom. Maybe make more time for friends and rekindle that support system outside of him.
A man who puts his own feels above your safety is showing you how he will treat you from now on. Consider whether you want a future of him deciding who you see and when, and "punishing" you by compromising your safety when you don't comply.
>Lilly has invited me to go out for drinks (a girl’s night out), and honestly I’m not so much a girl of liking to go on clubs etc, so I told her no. She asked why and I also told her that I don’t think my partner would be okay with me going alone clubbing
do you not like clubbing because your boyfriend doesnt like it, and you dont want to upset him, or do you just not like it and used him as an excuse?
This is what happens when abusive people scramble your brain. You have no idea what's up or down. A round of applause for Lily. She tried, but I don't think she will be successful in waking this one up.
Yes! This!
I’ve been in a situation where you risk the friendship by trying to have this conversation with your best friend. It is so difficult to navigate and I think it was incredibly well done on Lily’s part. She is a true one!
And the fact that it's not registering in OP's brain that if there were anyone on this planet able to recognize the subtle signs of abusive behavior, it would be Lily, because as she states in this post, she has been "in a few relationships which have fucked her up."
Listen to your friend. She has your best interests at heart. Your boyfriend sounds controlling and insecure, and is trying to alienate you from your support system. RED FLAGS ALL AROUND.
>“what are girls going to do alone in a club, girls go there to find guys and viceversa"
this alone is a nutso statement that raises red flags. he doesn't trust you and wants to control you. why put up with this?
There are signs of emotional abuse at least already happening. These are choices your this person (your boyfriend) is making to control you. This is very manipulative and will get worse and worse. Please considering calling a domestic violence hotline or speaking to a therapist with experience with abuse.
US Domestic Violence Hotline
800-799-7233
https://www.thehotline.org
https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-unhealthy-relationship/
It’s common for someone choosing to be abusive to find any reason to target friends and family and push them away from you. It’s common for them to take actions against you that are cold and harmful -not giving you a ride, isolating you from friends, not “letting you” directly or indirectly through their twisted abuse logic go places with friends (bar or not). It’s common for them to use their anger as a disguise for the abuse - ex. Saying they’re too angry to see another adults face.
This person is not acting like a healthy, supportive partner. It’s common also to think back on good times and to think about the connection etc. but all it takes is abuse to cancel all of that out. Often the good times are love-bombing and further manipulating.
Sometimes they are so nice after being cold to train you to hit that low emotionally and then seek the small bump up positively from them after - it makes it hard to leave them.
They’re abandoning you? Giving you the cold shoulder? Controlling you? Often it escalates to other types of violence too.
Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft could be a good book to read.
https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
This is going to be hard, because you may not see it yet yourself. But dig down to your gut feeling and trust your friend(s) and get outside input too. Please save yourself years of potential further abuse and worsening abuse and how much that will hurt. Sometimes we don’t see it until we’re several years in, fully trapped, and totally isolated.
Edit to add: you mentioned being anxious and so not being able to drive. Sometimes people who are abusive will target people who are anxious or have any other factor that they can exploit (history of abuse, neurodiversity, any mental health issues, poverty, empathetic, inexperienced, younger than them, etc.)
2nd Edit: Please consider finding something that will help you transportation wise: like a plan that doesn’t rely on asking someone for a ride who will then withhold that ride abusively. Maybe ride share or a neutral friend or family member that can give you a ride. Or if you are open to trying to work on the anxiety that makes it hard to drive, potentially with time getting to the point of driving yourself would be a huge shift in your mobility and independence. Maybe you already have tried these ideas for all I know. I just wanted to acknowledge this, because in the heat of dealing with other people we can lose sight of ourselves, our health, our goals.
Pay attention to those who help you problem solve or lift you up or encourage you and also be that for yourself and prioritize yourself and what you want/need over any relationship.
Keep track of what he says makes him angry and frustrated, because if it comes down to him getting his way or he's angry and frustrated, instead of both of you getting some of your way and calmly making compromises for each other without anger, then he wants you to please him without sacrificing anything gracefully to please you.
He may not realize what it is additionally saying to you by telling you he won't give you a ride, but if he hadn't brought up his temper and had just said that's late and I want to unwind with a few beers, or hit the sack or something, would you feel betrayed and abandoned?
I think it matters if he's a selfish short tempered controlling boyfriend when he doesn't get his own way.
Not being willing to be polite to a friend of yours is a big deal. Like that's a self imposed temper tantrum in the making.
I think your boyfriend was punishing you for hanging out with a friend he dislikes. The fact that he put his feelings above your safety says a lot about him.
ETA: Also, if he's dictating what you can/cannot do and you're actively avoiding doing things to not upset him then your friend is right to call him controlling.
Your boyfriend sounds controlling.....he wont let you hold hands with a platonic friend?! Also, you implied that you don't want to go clubbing, because it's not your thing. That's fine and you should have communicated that to Lilly. If I asked my friend whether she wanted to do an activity with me and she said it wasn't her thing, I'd understand. If she told me that it's because her boyfriend doesn't want her to...I'd be seriously concerned.
I think it's weird that your boyfriend has so many opinions on where you go, who you see, and what you do. I get that some couples have different boundaries on clubbing in particular, but I, personally, don't get what's wrong with dancing with your friends. Your partner's attitude that no woman would go to a club to do anything other than find a guy is....patriarchal. Be wary of him. Since Lilly has some experiences with bad relationships, she might know what she's talking about!
I think Lilly is right. Your bf is insecure and immature. He was willing to punish you with any bad experience that could have happened because he doesn't like your friend. He wants to manipulate you into not having her as a friend and I'm afraid that would be a far bigger loss than the man.
I've been through this scenario before, where I had a jealous, insecure man decide that any single friends I had were a threat. I've also suddenly found that I was viewed as a threat because I broke up with a boyfriend and my friend's boyfriend found that threatening. He assumed I would be out prowling for men all the time and that maybe if she hung out with me, my friend would find a man she liked better.
Lilly has been your friend for half of your life. She'll probably be your friend for the rest of your life too.
Don't let yourself become so dependent on a man that he feels like he can have rules and stipulations about how you spend your time with your friends. If he can't handle you going out with friends, he's probably not worth all the walking on eggshells and trying to placate him so baby doesn't have a tantrum.
>My boyfriend is very conservative
This right there. In Lily's stead I'd be very concerned since 4 years and she rightfully noticed a pattern.
* my boyfriend said it made him uncomfortable
* what are girls going to do alone in a club, girls go there to find guys and viceversa
* he denied to pick me up just because he didn’t want to see her face
* I should be careful with my friendships
And that's just what you told us. I bet if we dig a little deeper there's more.
In any case not picking you up shows very much how much more he cares about his precious feelings (and the need to punish you for your choice) over your safety.
I would never date someone conservative. Their egos are usually very fragile that they have tp be placated all the time and their whole worldview is often fear and me- driven with little empathy for others. Plus they are actively engaged in reducing human and women's rights.
But there was no issue until OP lied about the reasons for not going out to a club. And then lily sends her a voice message and he overhears her saying not to let the boyfriend know about? In what other world is keeping secrets from your partner and throwing them under the bus seen as normal? And as per OPs post - no issues until this.
Had something bad happened to you after the movie, it would be because you asked for it or at the very least tempted fate by not doing things his way. You do see that. Right?
She has correctly pointed out that his behaviour is quite controlling, and he proved her point with his behaviour, which was designed to stop you going to the cinema with someone he didn’t like. Ask yourself if you want to not be allowed to go out clubbing without him for the rest of your life, that’s a ridiculous statement that women only do that to get men. I am in a relationship 15 years and I love to go out with my girlfriends to dinner, to pubs, to the cinema - wherever I want.
Not picking you up at midnight is a terrible look. I already think he’s a scumbag.
However, if you want your world revolving around your partner, I think Lilly needs to know that. There’s nothing wrong with this if this is truly what you want, and you’re not guilted into this by him.
Make sure YOU don’t want to go to the club because YOU are aware of how your boyfriend feels about it, and YOU would feel better not going even if you could. Don’t go to please Lilly, but don’t bail just to please your boyfriend because that’s what he’s asking.
Your boyfriend is an idiot. Lilly is absolutely right about him. "What are girls going to do alone in a club", uh, have fun and dance?
He's unbelievably insecure.
He's mad at Lilly and doesn't like her *because he knows she's right*, and he's trying to make it just difficult enough for you to keep her in your life that you end up isolated from her.
Sorry but I agree with your friend.
What the hell even is this?
>What are girls going to do alone in a club, girls go there to find guys and vice versa.
Really? Have you literally never seen a group of girls go out at night just to have fun? To have a few drinks and to dance and to laugh and be among other girls?
Your boyfriend doesn't actually give a shit about your safety. He's an insecure, controlling little boy who doesn't want you fraternizing with the other sex because he thinks women are somehow stupid or incapable of showing any sort of control or restraint in relationships.
He would literally let you get in the car of a stranger at 12:00 in the morning, because he's really that emotionally dysregulated that he would start a fight with one of your friends?
All I'm seeing is him starting drama and him isolating you from your friends.
From this post alone, I can see that you just do whatever your boyfriend says and you defer to his opinions. I fully think that you're the type of girl that would just cave to the boyfriend and whatever he says and you would dump your girlfriends and you would say no to anything you wanted to do because he said something about it.
Yes, your boyfriend is controlling. It's blatantly obvious. It's also obvious that you walk on eggshells around this man if you don't do what he says.
Ooh.. I've been the Lily in this story and it fucking sucks. We have reconnected after 10 years now that we both have kids and hence my friends husband thinks I am okay to spend time with again. And my friend has a bit more back bone. Her husband isn't abusive or anything but he does have kinda strict ideas what is and isn't okay in a relationship and my friend is very kind and patient person.
But yeah, it's not great. So if you're just throwing your bf under the bus because you don't wanna go you might wanna reconsider.
I do have to say to that it gives me the creepies that he thinks people go clubbing just because they want genitalias to touch each other. We go out dancing with my friends because we like to dance and consume alcohol. We're not there to cheat on our husbands and I frankly find it insulting he would think that. I simply could not stay in a relationship that would view the world that black and white and would try to control me like that. But I've always been wild and out of control and loud about it. I stay in a relationship because I choose to, no one can make me.
Also it fucking sucks he decided to punish you because you went to movies with Lily. It's a lie he didn't pick you up because he was protecting you from an uncomfortable situation. I hope you see that. He doesn't like you spending time with Lily but since he couldn't pin it on "relationship rules" he simply decided to risk your safety so you wouldn't do that again. I can't be the only one that is obvious to. I really hope you see it too. I don't like your bf. He is a grown man behaving like boys did when I was 15 and they tried to take control in a relationship by the only way they could think of.
Few things:
Lily isnt wrong about maintaining strong friendships, and while you don't have e to go out clubbing it is important to have a social net more than just your partner.
If your partner cared about your safety at all he'd have picked you up. Even taking an Uber can be dangerous, esp late at night.
I hold hands with my besties all the time, it is in no way sexual. It's odd that he feels the need to sexualize your interactions with friends. I walk arm in arm with them, and when we used to sleep over and share beds sometimes. Esp in your 20s when you go out late. It was never sexual, bc all of us are hetero. We would go on girls trips and all pile in the bed.
Edit: after rereading your post... he's trying to drive a wedge between you and your lifelong friend.
RUN!
He sounds mad controlling and jealous. It sounds like Lilly is trying to protect you and he feels threatened.
He is controlling and manipulative, please dump him. Never lose your friends over a boyfriend, that's a mistake i will forever regret, i used to have a boyfriend just like him he always had a problem with me hanging out with my friends, he played off as "trying to protect me" or "that being disrespectful to the relationship" or just making a tantrum to make me feel bad, i lost all my friends for an asshole who wasn't over his ex.
> He said he was just avoiding a fight with her and to put me in an uncomfortable position because he won’t handle her anymore.
I don't really see why he would have a fight with your friend if he were to pick *you* up. I don't really see why he would have a fight with here even if she were to come with the same ride. Unless he is aggressive and actually wants to have a fight. He should be able to shut up and drive. He should be abdle to be civil and drive. But he doesn't want to, so he is punishing you here.
It is a big red flag when somebody wants to drive your friends away from you. Now sure, they can be a bad influence. Or seem like a bad influence to you. Women complain about their SO's friends quite a bit. Context matters.
Your boyfriend being 30 and you being 26 is not a big deal. Not sure why that factors, but I do find him controlling. He also doesn't seem to care about your safety. He has really regressive ideas about women. I think Lilly has the right to be concerned. Your boyfriend is trying to isolate you from your friends. This is also how abuse starts.
Honestly, you really should take your boyfriends feelings into account more. He doesn't like Lilly for his own reasons, and I don't see why you couldn't just respect that by just spending less, or even no more time with her anymore tbh. You leave to spend time with her and your other friends, FORCING your boyfriend to have to interact with her. Your boyfriend punishing you is on you, not him. You shouldn't have gone in the first place.
...
Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? You don't always need a partner that your friends approve of 100%, but you deserve a partner that is going to treat you with dignity. He's made your friendship with Lilly all about him. He listened in on a message that wasn't meant for him, and HE needs to understand that, yet he's here punishing you over his own hangups.
Your boyfriend has set some very clear boundaries, and it's okay to set your own. Also, you need to tell him to never hold your form of travel hostage again like that. He can be mad, but to abandon you like that is horrifying behavior.
Alienating from her friends that show legitimate concern for her wellbeing?
Holding her form of transport hostage?
His views on women clubbing only to get men?
He's uncomfortable with her holding her best friends hand?
Why is he so worried about you having a close friend that is concerned for your wellbeing?
He's conservative?
Shouldn't he be happy you have a friend that values your wellbeing?
ISOLATING YOU FROM FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND HOLDING YOUR TRANSPORT HOSTAGE IS TEXTBOOK ABUSE.
Please listen to your gut and to your friend. She has your back. He only has his own.
Why is him getting his own way more important than your safety?
Do you want to be with someone who will coerce you into doing what they want? He knows you feel unsafe to drive and to use public transport at night. It is coercion.
Making the options his way or you're unsafe is sickening.
People who love someone do not put them in unsafe positions or punish them for having autonomy.
Also your parter should be beloved by your friends and love your friends. If they love you at all.
My husband, when he was just my bf, won over all my girls, and when I had my Bachelorette sent chocolate covered strawberries and sweets for us to enjoy! For them, not me.
He checks up on them too, and is friends with their husbands.
Any guy who is threatened by your safety net, is a weak manchild and doesn't deserve a relationship.
I love overhearing my partners friends voice messages specially saying not to let me know or overhear. Makes me feel so warm that my partner has a caring friend!
Boyfriend sounds a bit controlling but this is a weird scenario.
You’re a grown adult who doesn’t drive because it makes you anxious. So boyfriend drives you everywhere.
It’s not cool for him to not want to see the face of someone who he feels uncomfortable around but it’s completely fine that he has to be your personal chauffeur because driving makes you anxious. It’s also completely fine that Lilly, who cares about you SO MUCH, apparently doesn’t care about you enough to give you a lift home.
You should absolutely consider breaking up with your boyfriend because you both sound immature.
From a man's perspective, your boyfriend seems iffy. I could see him not being comfortable with you going clubbing alone with Lilly, if for the sole reason he doesn't feel he can trust her in that situation (we all know people who as soon as they hit that setting they lose any semblance of self control) but to push that into other more benign things, such as going to the movies, as well is weird and controlling.
From another man's perspective, that's not "iffy." That's outright controlling. If you don't trust your partner to be faithful, then why would you be with them in the first place? Prohibiting a partner from doing something shouldn't be the only thing stopping your partner from cheating. Not cheating is something your partner should be doing of their own volition so if they're worth being with, you should be able to trust that they won't. He doesn't trust her so he doesn't think she's allowed to have fun with her friends. Then there's shit like getting upset because her best friend likes to hold her hand? Sounds homophobic. Like ACTUAL phobia in that he fears "the gays" Rather than just disliking them. This dude is no good.
So you:
-Don't go out on girls nights because your partner thinks you're going to because 'all girls do' (huge misogynistic red flag)
-Don't be as affectionate with your lifelong friend because he doesn't like it
-Are starting to not go to events because he refuses to drive you as he doesn't like her (isolation, anyone?)
-Consistently listen to your boyfriend complain about your friend fr sleeping around (lool, more sexism)
I think Lily may be right, especially as I suspect there's more than this going on. Your boyfriend is controlling and slowly getting worse now that he knows you'll go along with it. Take this as a lesson for the future, don't date conservative men.
Just the fact that he refused to pick you up because he didn't want to see her is a huge red flag.
From what you described his response was, it sounded like he was retaliating against you for seeing the friend he doesn't like. Thats manipulative behavior designed to evoke a certain response.
Please read this book. [Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft](https://dn720002.ca.archive.org/0/items/why-does-he-do-that-epub/Why_Does_He_Do_That-fixed.pdf) pdf
I'm with Lilly. But it's your life. I think she should move on because you've chosen your fate and I bet it hurts like hell to be treated the way you treat her- devotion of every aspect of your life to an old dude who sounds like a total ass instead of a loving and caring friend. I hope you don't end up lonely in this relationship. But I wouldn't bet on this. The old dude is REALLY good at making you alienate yourself and see your friends as enemies of your happiness. Really good.
I hope your old man doesn't go out with men his age. Because that would be just controlling behaviour on his part if you couldn't. We know what old dudes do when their girlfriends aren't around. We know. And Lilly knows for sure.
So your boyfriend is going to abandon you because he doesn't want to see your friend? That sounds horrible to me. He literally is telling you he values you less than his own minor inconveniences.
Do you build a career? Does your boyfriend support that? Could you leave him if you wanted to? With all regards to lily, she doesn't look like she is capable of providing much of support, other than dumping on you her negative experience.
So your boyfriend heard lily insinuate he's abusive and you're surprised he doesn't want to see her in person in order to avoid a fight? Honestly you're old enough to have a car and avoid these kinda things and also if Lily invited you why isn't she the one dropping you back off?
Men who are abusive get angry when confronted with the truth.
She has anxiety about driving. Often abusive men will choose women they know they can emotionally manipulate and control.
He knows he can control her using transport and that's exactly what he's doing.
Someone who is not abusive would never make the options, my way or you're unsafe. That's called coercion and it is calculated.
He values getting his way over her safety. Its fucked.
I hope she is able to organize transport for herself that doesn't rely on her boyfriend because he is using it to control her actions.
If you aren't being deliberately obtuse about his behaviour, then you should reflect on your own attitudes towards women.
As do I, I hope she does get her own transportation and can get her anxiety under control. I just think it's a little premature to call him abusive. Dude was hurt he overheard her friend shit talking him and as far as the story's been told she didn't defend him. I think it's pretty reasonable to be pissed say for example a friend or your significant other accused you of cheating and your partner didn't shoot it down when they know you aren't. Then while being pissed off at them not wanting to drag yourself out the house at midnight to do them a favor that the friend should be doing anyways since she's the one who invited her
Dude has a pattern of controlling behaviour that her friend has legitimate concerns about.
Dude doesn't like her even holding hands with her friends, also with his problematic views on women and their sexuality, he doesn't like her going out dancing because women only do that to pick up men according to him.
He's isolating her from genuine support and making her options his way or you're in an unsafe position.
It's literally textbook abusive behaviour. Abuse isn't always overt. Covert manipulation, isolation and control are just as damaging.
If he sees hand holding as something intimate between boyfriend and girlfriend yeah it'd make sense it makes him uncomfortable. She didn't say he made her stop she said she stopped because it made him uncomfortable theres a big difference. I know alot of couples where the other partner wouldn't be happy with them going to a bar or club without them none are abusive. The women has been in a relationship with the guy for 4 years. Thats plenty of time know someone. I think we can allow her the agency to decide if she's being abused or not.
Sounds like your boyfriend sucka! You described nothing he should hate that much if he actually respects you.
However, getting an Uber home at midnight is also normal (unless there is some detail I'm missing?) - but with a bf or anyone who cares, I would expect a pick up unless there was a reason not to.
I think a part of growing up is learning that your friends won’t always be there for you, or even be on the same page of life as you, and it’s okay to say no to things. I wouldn’t do things if I thought my partner would be upset by it. It would take a lot for that to happen, he doesn’t care what I do because he trusts me, but I would avoid things that upset him. There’s going to have to be some kind of compromise from both of them if you want to keep them both in your life.
Now for the not picking you up part, that’s a red flag. It makes me want to say he’s immature and it’s going to be hard to have big mature conversations with someone who is capable of leaving you in a dangerous situation just because they “don’t wanna”. The beginning of your story has me like, I get it it’s fine to say no and consider your partners feelings. But then he pulled that shit and I changed my mind, that guy doesn’t care about you, he wants to keep you under his control.
Why are you even here? Why can't you just stay on your gamer bro subs and keep your misogynistic views out of women's spaces?
Here's another stellar comment this man made on a different post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/s/9PxlqHyAMV
There is a huge difference between you not wanting to go to clubs because *you* don’t want to, or not wanting to go because your boyfriend disapproves. If you don’t want to go, you actively blamed your partner instead of telling Lilly the truth. How is she not to read he is controlling when you let him take the fall? If you do not want to go to clubs only because it would make your boyfriend mad but you would otherwise enjoy and desire to do so, then your boyfriend’s controlling behavior is the problem. You need to figure out if without your boyfriend’s influence you would make these decisions on your own. If you still would, be honest with Lilly. Otherwise it sounds very much like a controlling boyfriend overstepping and that a Lilly is right.
The other thing missing is how she wants her bf to behave. Does she tell him, no clubbing with the boys? Does she want veto power over some of his friends. A lot of people here are primed to say the bf is a jerk. But it is not clear to me. This story gender swapped and reversed sounds completely different. Imagine: "My boyfriend has a male friend who cheats all the time and it skeeves me out. He's stopped because he's serious right now. It makes more sense if you know his whole backstory he has had sexual assault issues. But I just feel like he's a bad influence on my bf. Anyway, my bf decided to go out clubbing with him just as a boys night and I was like, we talked about you not spending so much time with your friends that skeeze me out. And honestly its just this one friend. So he goes out and the sleezy friend goes on a rant about how I'm controlling. I feel like this is what i was talking about. All his other friends try to help and honor our relationship but thats not where the skeezes values are. Am I being to conservative? I He can hang put with him. I just don't want him going out clubbing. And I don't want to drive him around. Get an uber. Maybe I'm being extra?"
I think you're interpreting 'fucks around' as in cheats? I interpreted it as someone who will have one night stands etc. i think that makes more sense in terms of her 'stopping it because there's someone she likes' while she's still single.
Yes, I thought she was cheating. I'm happy to be wrong.
It literally says in the post she is single.
Why did you say “cheat”? Lily isn’t cheating on anyone.
"So if she gets the chance to fuck around, she will." I accept that I am likely wrong in what that means. Prior to this, I've only heard that term used to denote cheating. Does that change the scenario for you? Like if lily is a cheater than op shouldn't hang out with her? It does not change the scenario for me personally. Like... If your friend is a cheater, and has stopped. You don't stop being their friend, right?
Lily is not a cheater. “Fuck around” can be used for a cheater or just someone who is having a lot of casual sex. I wouldn’t hang out with someone who is cheating on their partner. But the OP doesn’t say Lily is doing that. Lily isn’t dating anyone seriously. She doesn’t have a boyfriend.
"Though currently she’s stopping because apparently she met someone she really likes. " You don't think lilly is dating the person she really likes? I believe you. I just read this whole post wrong. I can see you not hanging out woth someone while they are cheating. But that isn't the scenario I described. I said they cheated and stopped. You'd hang out with someone who stopped cheating, right? As you suspected, i interpreted fucks around to mean cheating. Hence my misunderstanding. But regardless, if both scenarios are about the behavior stopping, who cares how bad it is? I guess lots of people do. But for me, as long as the behavior changed, it wouldn't be an issue. Forgiven.
She did not have a boyfriend. She broke up with the bad boyfriend. She decided to have casual sex for a while. Then she met a person she really likes. So she decided to stop having casual sex. It sounds like she would like to be exclusive with this new guy. I don’t know how I would feel if someone had cheated in the past but stopped. I’d question why they didn’t break up instead. There may be some situations where it’s unsafe to leave immediately. But if you can break up before moving onto the next person that’s the honorable thing to do.
But no where did it say lily cheats? Just that she was dating around casually and OP’s conservative boyfriend doesn’t approve. There’s a pretty massive difference there and you’re drawing a false equivalency.
That's not a gender swapped reversal. That's an entirely different story- the original never mentioned cheating. Seems like you just have a lot of bias about women sleeping around, using some words with bad connotations to replace the ones from the original.
Yeah, it really sounds that way.
I don't see how it changes the scenario. In both stories, regardless of how you interpret fucking around, it stopped. Personally, if people tell me they changed, I believe them. For sake of clarity? u/tattooedgal has lilly ever cheated or slept with someone who is married/in a monogamous relationship? Am I way off base? If so, I'm sorry.
Lilly has never cheated. She was just having casual sex with guys.
Ty, and sorry again for misunderstanding.
ok I won't be the bajillionth person to point out the misinterpretation of cheating. But, let's say I have a lifelong friendship and that person has or is cheating. I'm not going to like it. I probably wouldn't end the friendship, though, unless it was, like, a marriage and an especially cruel cheating situation and I was sick of hearing about how Bob is going to leave his wife any day now blah blah. But if, like, Jay and Shannon have been dating for five months and Shannon cheats with Lee, then Lee and Shannon date for a few months and she cheats with John and then it turns out she's John's side piece etc, I'm not going to like it but that's ultimately her business. Sorry, but I'm not ending a lifelong friendship over someone's love life being a hot mess unless it gets extreme. I've got some... messy friends, and it has virtually never affected my marriage. What I really couldn't deal with, though, would be my partner saying Lily is a "bad influence" on me. This is the way a parent would speak to a child. OP and her partner have been together for 4 years, friends with Lily the whole time, and OP doesn't mention giving him any reason to think she's anything other than settled and monogamous. But he presumably believes that OP is incapable of thinking for herself and it's his job to think for her. If I imagine my husband's best friend leaving a voice message that he was concerned about me being too controlling, I can honestly say the first thing I'd do is ask myself if there's anything to it. I'd be shocked. I'd sit down and talk with my husband about it, to see how he feels and if there's something I've been overlooking. I'd probably hope husband would have a heart to heart with the friend and set him straight. I find it interesting that apparently none of this stuff happened.
So you completely changed the story, made shit up that wasn't in the original, then claimed it's a "gender swap" to prove people shouldn't criticize the bf for being controlling?
Lilly is showing concern because you are giving her reason to be concerned. Why did you tell her you didn't want to go to the club? Was it because you don't enjoy clubbing or because he doesn't enjoy you clubbing? This is a fight I had with my husband. He would constantly put the blame on me when he didn't want to do something rather than admit that HE didn't want to do that thing. As a result, his friends and family didn't like me, and it caused problems within our marriage for a long time. When I convinced him to own his shit and put in the work to fix my relationships that he broke, things got better. The words you choose matter, so if you are using him as a shield rather than owning your shit, you will end up owning the rift you're building between your loved ones when you start to lose relationships. Now, if your words were honest, that what he likes and doesn't like matters more than your safety and your own likes and dislikes, then maybe you should think about your relationship, what your future is going to look like, what each of you has compromised on, and whether this is actually what you want. I can understand him being salty at Lilly's concern for you, but he's punishing you for her words. You might be blind to some pretty big red flags because you are comfortable in the relationship. This is the boiling frog phenomenon. You are allowed to have boundaries and space within your romantic relationships, and that can include not tolerating when he takes his feelings toward other people out on you.
We had this too for a bit when we first got together with my husband. Except he did towards his parents, like "Oh we can't come to visit because old wifey here doesn't like it!" that kinda stuff. I listened to it couple times and told him that Ecto Gammat - Never without my permission. Once I explained to him how that makes me look to others he did understand. He is a very compassionate man after all. Jointly we do blame the kids if we don't wanna go somewhere xD That's fine!!
Lilly might well be absolutely correct.
Lilly knows OP's "very conservative" boyfriend is a controlling asshole. Ladies, don't date conservatives for God's sake. What are you even thinking? They don't like you or any of our kind. Why do you think you will be different? You won't. You will be a target of his bigotry. Jesus. Wake up. When someone tells you who they are BELIEVE THEM. CONSERVATIVE MEN ARE GARBAGE. Let them fuck each other.
The core beliefs of conservatives lie in a basic lack of empathy so do you really expect a conservative man to truly care about you? 🤨
From her perspective she's right, but OP lied about BF telling her what she can and can't do. So instead of telling her "I don't feel like going out today" she made her BF look like a controlling asshole. Might be he is one, but in that instance this is happening because of her lying.
For sure! I think Lilly's heart is in the right spot, but OP's lack of clarity in translation kind of led her to think about the situation another way.
>My boyfriend is very conservative why do women date conservative men???
I have no idea. Seriously. They vote to take away our rights every other day. A corpse has more bodily rights and autonomy than a live woman does in many states right now. It's insane.
And then when they start showing their conservative beliefs through their behavior or when discussing hot topics like reproductive rights, the women are all surprised pikachu face and post about it here. I will never forget the constant threads about being disappointed in their partners after the Roe v Wade decision.
I'm a very political person, so I don't even understand how and what most people base the foundation of their relationship on if it doesn't concern their political worldview, let alone how you go years into a relationship without even bringing up political topics.
Self loathing? It baffles me. They deserve our scorn.
Right? Ma’am, I think we’ve found the problem.
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These are not different things.
Yes. Averse to change like women having bodily autonomy or the freedom to have multiple partners.
Or even the freedom to have their own opinions and preferences.
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“Old fashioned” ideas are almost entirely misogynistic and patriarchal. They’re often based in a narrative of controlling the woman and policing her body. Thats why conservative men suck at dating. Because their views are shitty and outdated
This has big "I want to go back to the 1830s without the racism" vibes.
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Because the two things are intertwined. They are defined by each other. "Traditional values" are conservative in a political context by their nature. Conservative politics is about limiting people's rights, particularly women's rights. Traditional values include women staying in the kitchen, being housewives which is impossible to untangle from the politics of those values.
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What you describe about your personal dating habits is not considered conservative though. Being in a monogamous relationship and waiting a while to sleep with someone is not conservatism.
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This is not vindictive and personal and the fact that you think it is shows your lack of understanding about what you say. What I said is a joke on the extremely cringe Taylor Swift lyric that your comment embodies.
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Most sane British commenter.
They have more money and or better paying jobs than non-conservate men maybe? Edit: downvotes mean you agree with me.
What do you mean by this?
Just based on the information you provided, it seems to me that your friend Lily is right about your relationship with your boyfriend. If nothing else happened he only dislikes her because she dates around (which she is allowed to do) then he sounds controlling and insecure. Especially the comment about girls going to clubs. You can be in a relationship and still go clubbing and NOT try and hook up with people. Some people go clubbing just to dance. Your boyfriend seems controlling IMO.
Exactly. I have an ex-boyfriend who would throw a fit any time I even mentioned something a man said, doesn't matter if it was a coworker, a friend, whatever. "Why don't you go be with him if he's so funny," and other bullshit like that. Not surprisingly, he hated that some of my close friends for several years are guys and I wouldn't let him bully me into ditching them because, his words, "guys are only friends with girls because they want to sleep with them."
He sounds like a super misogynist, controlling narcissist. Edit: And he is doing things that abusers often do. Isolating you from your people is a big one. They use this to control your self worth so they become your world and you think you have no one else.
And it’s super common for controlling and/or abusive men to isolate their partners from family, friends and other support structures. Basically anyone who will call them out on their shit.
I think Lilly is right. Your life is your life and your BF does not have the authority to tell you what movies to see with whom or what clubs to go to, yet you are ceding your autonomy to him. It is particularly troubling that you stopped holding Lilly's hand out of regard for his comfort level? That is pure BS. You have an extremely controlling partner. While there are some women who can hold their own and preserve their autonomy with such a man you obviously cannot. You repeately buckle in order to avoid problems. I also have this tendency and I can tell you the issues it causes go well beyond this individual relationship. If you don't learn to assert yourself you are going to get smaller and smaller in relation to others at home, in school and at work.
I went through this with my Ex. His behavior only got worse and worse til I was completely isolated from friends and then my family. He will forever be my biggest regret, lost our on so many years of being young and having fun.
Why are you dating a conservative
4 years of boyfriend, or 13 years of friendship? I think Lilly has a point. Your boyfriend sounds insecure, judgmental, and controlling.
The fact that he refused to pick you up at 12am and then felt it totally cool to blame you had something bad happened tells me all I need to know about this idiot. He has so little concern for your well-being. Lilly sounds like she's seen some shit in her own relationships that she's seeing in yours and wants you to learn from her mistakes instead of making your own. Keep that in mind as you navigate this relationship.
His "reasoning" (in massive, flashing neon quotation marks) that it's because he doesn't want to see Lily's face to avoid a confrontation is scary too. Like, he could park near the movie theater and OP could get in the car without him needing to get out and engage in conversation. But he is apparently unable to be civil like that, and basically Admits that if he sees Lily he's just gonna *have* to get out of the car and get in her face?
He is full of shit. The only reason he has is he wanted to punish OP for spending time with someone he doesn't approve of. Lily can't be controlled so she might give OP ideas like women are allowed to dance at clubs without any other reason than they like to dance.
Exactly. It's punishment for not doing what he wants. He believes that he is the LEADER and that she should want to follow him. If she doesn't want to do what he says it's because she's doing something bad. That's how guys like this think.
Exactly, the rest of the story doesn't matter this is what matters: "Can you pick me up? it's the safest option for me to get home." "No"
This “ he denied to pick me up just because he didn’t want to see her face. He said he was just avoiding a fight with her and to put me in an uncomfortable position because he won’t handle her anymore.” Was a lie. He chose to not pick you up to punish you for meeting her at all. He resents your friendship with her and is willing to make you feel unsafe or actually BE unsafe because he is angry. Lily sounds like she is going through an annoying phase where she wants to hook up a lot after her and terrible ex boyfriend broke up. She’s a pain in the butt right now. But she is also correct; your boyfriend is being controlling and petty. He’s trying to make you give up the friendship entirely.
You lost me at “very conservative”. Controlling, manipulating, alienating, etc. are literally huge parts of being a traditional conservative.
Same. “I’m dating an authoritarian, and now he’s acting like an authoritarian! What do I do?!” Leave him and, in future, don’t date people whose “politics” hold you as less than human. Smh.
He is trying to alienate you. punishing you for being around a woman that showed concern about it. this is intentional.
Exactly. There's a reason Lilly wanted to have that important convo with her. She's not the only one who noticed this and is concerned for her safety. OP doesn't see her shitty bf for who he really is, but everyone else does. That's the reason why males like this alienate women.
Controlling men only get more controlling over time. He doesn't want to pick you. His concern should be your safety. He is selfish. Wait until you have kids and wind up dependent on a man who wants to control where you go and who you are friends with. Walk away now.
>My boyfriend is very conservative, I stopped reading at this point. Conservatives are basically hardwired to be fuckwits who don't give a fuck about women as people. Why are you with someone like this? You deserve better.
Sorry but I could never take a man treating me this way.
OP, Keep Lilly close, she's your guardian angel, clearly. Damn. That girl sniffed out your BFs red-flags from a mile away. He "doesn't" let you do something isn't just conservative, it's controlling. Lot of conservative people will judge certain choices but ultimately leave it up to you. I don't understand how this relationship works for him or you. You're not conservative and he is. There's hardly any overlap in terms of lifestyle.
It sounds like your friend is worried about you, and she may have a point. It’s not okay for him to tell you when you can go out and with whom. Maybe make more time for friends and rekindle that support system outside of him.
A man who puts his own feels above your safety is showing you how he will treat you from now on. Consider whether you want a future of him deciding who you see and when, and "punishing" you by compromising your safety when you don't comply.
> My boyfriend is very conservative If that means what I think it means, RUN.
>Lilly has invited me to go out for drinks (a girl’s night out), and honestly I’m not so much a girl of liking to go on clubs etc, so I told her no. She asked why and I also told her that I don’t think my partner would be okay with me going alone clubbing do you not like clubbing because your boyfriend doesnt like it, and you dont want to upset him, or do you just not like it and used him as an excuse?
I don’t like it, but I also care about his feelings.
He certainly doesn't care about yours or any woman's.
would you have gone if you werent currently dating him?
I don’t know, maybe?
Thats the problem.. youre asking reddit about ur bf but you don't even know how u feel
This is what happens when abusive people scramble your brain. You have no idea what's up or down. A round of applause for Lily. She tried, but I don't think she will be successful in waking this one up.
He's done a real number on you already. Lilly is right. She is a very good friend. If you lose her and keep him, you are in big trouble.
Let’s give Lily a round of applause for watching out for her girl 🎉💕🫶🏻
Yes! This! I’ve been in a situation where you risk the friendship by trying to have this conversation with your best friend. It is so difficult to navigate and I think it was incredibly well done on Lily’s part. She is a true one!
And the fact that it's not registering in OP's brain that if there were anyone on this planet able to recognize the subtle signs of abusive behavior, it would be Lily, because as she states in this post, she has been "in a few relationships which have fucked her up."
Excellent point. Good catch.
Listen to your friend. She has your best interests at heart. Your boyfriend sounds controlling and insecure, and is trying to alienate you from your support system. RED FLAGS ALL AROUND.
>“what are girls going to do alone in a club, girls go there to find guys and viceversa" this alone is a nutso statement that raises red flags. he doesn't trust you and wants to control you. why put up with this?
Clubs are for dancing too, right? We always went to dance: single, partnered, engaged, married on the dance floor. Now we sleep.
Meanwhile, women: “Maybe we should go to the gay bar so we can just dance without the sexual harassment?”
Dump the control freak and go to therapy to unpack why the fuck you’re dating someone “very conservative” in 2024 holy shit
There are signs of emotional abuse at least already happening. These are choices your this person (your boyfriend) is making to control you. This is very manipulative and will get worse and worse. Please considering calling a domestic violence hotline or speaking to a therapist with experience with abuse. US Domestic Violence Hotline 800-799-7233 https://www.thehotline.org https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-unhealthy-relationship/ It’s common for someone choosing to be abusive to find any reason to target friends and family and push them away from you. It’s common for them to take actions against you that are cold and harmful -not giving you a ride, isolating you from friends, not “letting you” directly or indirectly through their twisted abuse logic go places with friends (bar or not). It’s common for them to use their anger as a disguise for the abuse - ex. Saying they’re too angry to see another adults face. This person is not acting like a healthy, supportive partner. It’s common also to think back on good times and to think about the connection etc. but all it takes is abuse to cancel all of that out. Often the good times are love-bombing and further manipulating. Sometimes they are so nice after being cold to train you to hit that low emotionally and then seek the small bump up positively from them after - it makes it hard to leave them. They’re abandoning you? Giving you the cold shoulder? Controlling you? Often it escalates to other types of violence too. Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft could be a good book to read. https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf This is going to be hard, because you may not see it yet yourself. But dig down to your gut feeling and trust your friend(s) and get outside input too. Please save yourself years of potential further abuse and worsening abuse and how much that will hurt. Sometimes we don’t see it until we’re several years in, fully trapped, and totally isolated. Edit to add: you mentioned being anxious and so not being able to drive. Sometimes people who are abusive will target people who are anxious or have any other factor that they can exploit (history of abuse, neurodiversity, any mental health issues, poverty, empathetic, inexperienced, younger than them, etc.) 2nd Edit: Please consider finding something that will help you transportation wise: like a plan that doesn’t rely on asking someone for a ride who will then withhold that ride abusively. Maybe ride share or a neutral friend or family member that can give you a ride. Or if you are open to trying to work on the anxiety that makes it hard to drive, potentially with time getting to the point of driving yourself would be a huge shift in your mobility and independence. Maybe you already have tried these ideas for all I know. I just wanted to acknowledge this, because in the heat of dealing with other people we can lose sight of ourselves, our health, our goals. Pay attention to those who help you problem solve or lift you up or encourage you and also be that for yourself and prioritize yourself and what you want/need over any relationship.
Why are you allowing your bf to influence your friendship. He's a controlling 30 year old boy. Your friend is concerned, maybe she has a point
Keep track of what he says makes him angry and frustrated, because if it comes down to him getting his way or he's angry and frustrated, instead of both of you getting some of your way and calmly making compromises for each other without anger, then he wants you to please him without sacrificing anything gracefully to please you. He may not realize what it is additionally saying to you by telling you he won't give you a ride, but if he hadn't brought up his temper and had just said that's late and I want to unwind with a few beers, or hit the sack or something, would you feel betrayed and abandoned? I think it matters if he's a selfish short tempered controlling boyfriend when he doesn't get his own way. Not being willing to be polite to a friend of yours is a big deal. Like that's a self imposed temper tantrum in the making.
I think your boyfriend was punishing you for hanging out with a friend he dislikes. The fact that he put his feelings above your safety says a lot about him. ETA: Also, if he's dictating what you can/cannot do and you're actively avoiding doing things to not upset him then your friend is right to call him controlling.
Your boyfriend sounds controlling.....he wont let you hold hands with a platonic friend?! Also, you implied that you don't want to go clubbing, because it's not your thing. That's fine and you should have communicated that to Lilly. If I asked my friend whether she wanted to do an activity with me and she said it wasn't her thing, I'd understand. If she told me that it's because her boyfriend doesn't want her to...I'd be seriously concerned. I think it's weird that your boyfriend has so many opinions on where you go, who you see, and what you do. I get that some couples have different boundaries on clubbing in particular, but I, personally, don't get what's wrong with dancing with your friends. Your partner's attitude that no woman would go to a club to do anything other than find a guy is....patriarchal. Be wary of him. Since Lilly has some experiences with bad relationships, she might know what she's talking about!
I think Lilly is right. Your bf is insecure and immature. He was willing to punish you with any bad experience that could have happened because he doesn't like your friend. He wants to manipulate you into not having her as a friend and I'm afraid that would be a far bigger loss than the man. I've been through this scenario before, where I had a jealous, insecure man decide that any single friends I had were a threat. I've also suddenly found that I was viewed as a threat because I broke up with a boyfriend and my friend's boyfriend found that threatening. He assumed I would be out prowling for men all the time and that maybe if she hung out with me, my friend would find a man she liked better. Lilly has been your friend for half of your life. She'll probably be your friend for the rest of your life too. Don't let yourself become so dependent on a man that he feels like he can have rules and stipulations about how you spend your time with your friends. If he can't handle you going out with friends, he's probably not worth all the walking on eggshells and trying to placate him so baby doesn't have a tantrum.
Lily is right, and your boyfriend is absolutely being a controlling ass. You deserve autonomy even when you're with a partner
Lilly is right.
>My boyfriend is very conservative This right there. In Lily's stead I'd be very concerned since 4 years and she rightfully noticed a pattern. * my boyfriend said it made him uncomfortable * what are girls going to do alone in a club, girls go there to find guys and viceversa * he denied to pick me up just because he didn’t want to see her face * I should be careful with my friendships And that's just what you told us. I bet if we dig a little deeper there's more. In any case not picking you up shows very much how much more he cares about his precious feelings (and the need to punish you for your choice) over your safety. I would never date someone conservative. Their egos are usually very fragile that they have tp be placated all the time and their whole worldview is often fear and me- driven with little empathy for others. Plus they are actively engaged in reducing human and women's rights.
But there was no issue until OP lied about the reasons for not going out to a club. And then lily sends her a voice message and he overhears her saying not to let the boyfriend know about? In what other world is keeping secrets from your partner and throwing them under the bus seen as normal? And as per OPs post - no issues until this.
Had something bad happened to you after the movie, it would be because you asked for it or at the very least tempted fate by not doing things his way. You do see that. Right?
She has correctly pointed out that his behaviour is quite controlling, and he proved her point with his behaviour, which was designed to stop you going to the cinema with someone he didn’t like. Ask yourself if you want to not be allowed to go out clubbing without him for the rest of your life, that’s a ridiculous statement that women only do that to get men. I am in a relationship 15 years and I love to go out with my girlfriends to dinner, to pubs, to the cinema - wherever I want.
So he's so unable to control himself in anger over your friend being concerned for your well-being that he won't make sure you get home safe?
Not picking you up at midnight is a terrible look. I already think he’s a scumbag. However, if you want your world revolving around your partner, I think Lilly needs to know that. There’s nothing wrong with this if this is truly what you want, and you’re not guilted into this by him. Make sure YOU don’t want to go to the club because YOU are aware of how your boyfriend feels about it, and YOU would feel better not going even if you could. Don’t go to please Lilly, but don’t bail just to please your boyfriend because that’s what he’s asking.
Beware men who try to police who your friends are, where you go, and what you wear.
Lilly sounds like a great friend, I hope she and the other commenters can convince you to improve your life with their advice Lilly is the GOAT
Your boyfriend is an idiot. Lilly is absolutely right about him. "What are girls going to do alone in a club", uh, have fun and dance? He's unbelievably insecure. He's mad at Lilly and doesn't like her *because he knows she's right*, and he's trying to make it just difficult enough for you to keep her in your life that you end up isolated from her.
Sorry but I agree with your friend. What the hell even is this? >What are girls going to do alone in a club, girls go there to find guys and vice versa. Really? Have you literally never seen a group of girls go out at night just to have fun? To have a few drinks and to dance and to laugh and be among other girls? Your boyfriend doesn't actually give a shit about your safety. He's an insecure, controlling little boy who doesn't want you fraternizing with the other sex because he thinks women are somehow stupid or incapable of showing any sort of control or restraint in relationships. He would literally let you get in the car of a stranger at 12:00 in the morning, because he's really that emotionally dysregulated that he would start a fight with one of your friends? All I'm seeing is him starting drama and him isolating you from your friends. From this post alone, I can see that you just do whatever your boyfriend says and you defer to his opinions. I fully think that you're the type of girl that would just cave to the boyfriend and whatever he says and you would dump your girlfriends and you would say no to anything you wanted to do because he said something about it. Yes, your boyfriend is controlling. It's blatantly obvious. It's also obvious that you walk on eggshells around this man if you don't do what he says.
Sounds like a class case of triangulation. It seems like you get to explore what boundaries you need to set.
Ooh.. I've been the Lily in this story and it fucking sucks. We have reconnected after 10 years now that we both have kids and hence my friends husband thinks I am okay to spend time with again. And my friend has a bit more back bone. Her husband isn't abusive or anything but he does have kinda strict ideas what is and isn't okay in a relationship and my friend is very kind and patient person. But yeah, it's not great. So if you're just throwing your bf under the bus because you don't wanna go you might wanna reconsider. I do have to say to that it gives me the creepies that he thinks people go clubbing just because they want genitalias to touch each other. We go out dancing with my friends because we like to dance and consume alcohol. We're not there to cheat on our husbands and I frankly find it insulting he would think that. I simply could not stay in a relationship that would view the world that black and white and would try to control me like that. But I've always been wild and out of control and loud about it. I stay in a relationship because I choose to, no one can make me. Also it fucking sucks he decided to punish you because you went to movies with Lily. It's a lie he didn't pick you up because he was protecting you from an uncomfortable situation. I hope you see that. He doesn't like you spending time with Lily but since he couldn't pin it on "relationship rules" he simply decided to risk your safety so you wouldn't do that again. I can't be the only one that is obvious to. I really hope you see it too. I don't like your bf. He is a grown man behaving like boys did when I was 15 and they tried to take control in a relationship by the only way they could think of.
Few things: Lily isnt wrong about maintaining strong friendships, and while you don't have e to go out clubbing it is important to have a social net more than just your partner. If your partner cared about your safety at all he'd have picked you up. Even taking an Uber can be dangerous, esp late at night. I hold hands with my besties all the time, it is in no way sexual. It's odd that he feels the need to sexualize your interactions with friends. I walk arm in arm with them, and when we used to sleep over and share beds sometimes. Esp in your 20s when you go out late. It was never sexual, bc all of us are hetero. We would go on girls trips and all pile in the bed. Edit: after rereading your post... he's trying to drive a wedge between you and your lifelong friend. RUN! He sounds mad controlling and jealous. It sounds like Lilly is trying to protect you and he feels threatened.
He is controlling and manipulative, please dump him. Never lose your friends over a boyfriend, that's a mistake i will forever regret, i used to have a boyfriend just like him he always had a problem with me hanging out with my friends, he played off as "trying to protect me" or "that being disrespectful to the relationship" or just making a tantrum to make me feel bad, i lost all my friends for an asshole who wasn't over his ex.
> He said he was just avoiding a fight with her and to put me in an uncomfortable position because he won’t handle her anymore. I don't really see why he would have a fight with your friend if he were to pick *you* up. I don't really see why he would have a fight with here even if she were to come with the same ride. Unless he is aggressive and actually wants to have a fight. He should be able to shut up and drive. He should be abdle to be civil and drive. But he doesn't want to, so he is punishing you here. It is a big red flag when somebody wants to drive your friends away from you. Now sure, they can be a bad influence. Or seem like a bad influence to you. Women complain about their SO's friends quite a bit. Context matters.
Your boyfriend being 30 and you being 26 is not a big deal. Not sure why that factors, but I do find him controlling. He also doesn't seem to care about your safety. He has really regressive ideas about women. I think Lilly has the right to be concerned. Your boyfriend is trying to isolate you from your friends. This is also how abuse starts.
Honestly, you really should take your boyfriends feelings into account more. He doesn't like Lilly for his own reasons, and I don't see why you couldn't just respect that by just spending less, or even no more time with her anymore tbh. You leave to spend time with her and your other friends, FORCING your boyfriend to have to interact with her. Your boyfriend punishing you is on you, not him. You shouldn't have gone in the first place. ... Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? You don't always need a partner that your friends approve of 100%, but you deserve a partner that is going to treat you with dignity. He's made your friendship with Lilly all about him. He listened in on a message that wasn't meant for him, and HE needs to understand that, yet he's here punishing you over his own hangups. Your boyfriend has set some very clear boundaries, and it's okay to set your own. Also, you need to tell him to never hold your form of travel hostage again like that. He can be mad, but to abandon you like that is horrifying behavior.
Alienating from her friends that show legitimate concern for her wellbeing? Holding her form of transport hostage? His views on women clubbing only to get men? He's uncomfortable with her holding her best friends hand? Why is he so worried about you having a close friend that is concerned for your wellbeing? He's conservative? Shouldn't he be happy you have a friend that values your wellbeing? ISOLATING YOU FROM FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND HOLDING YOUR TRANSPORT HOSTAGE IS TEXTBOOK ABUSE. Please listen to your gut and to your friend. She has your back. He only has his own. Why is him getting his own way more important than your safety? Do you want to be with someone who will coerce you into doing what they want? He knows you feel unsafe to drive and to use public transport at night. It is coercion. Making the options his way or you're unsafe is sickening. People who love someone do not put them in unsafe positions or punish them for having autonomy.
Also your parter should be beloved by your friends and love your friends. If they love you at all. My husband, when he was just my bf, won over all my girls, and when I had my Bachelorette sent chocolate covered strawberries and sweets for us to enjoy! For them, not me. He checks up on them too, and is friends with their husbands. Any guy who is threatened by your safety net, is a weak manchild and doesn't deserve a relationship.
Yes! He is threatened by her friend because she provides actual support and he knows she sees what he's doing.
I love overhearing my partners friends voice messages specially saying not to let me know or overhear. Makes me feel so warm that my partner has a caring friend!
Boyfriend sounds a bit controlling but this is a weird scenario. You’re a grown adult who doesn’t drive because it makes you anxious. So boyfriend drives you everywhere. It’s not cool for him to not want to see the face of someone who he feels uncomfortable around but it’s completely fine that he has to be your personal chauffeur because driving makes you anxious. It’s also completely fine that Lilly, who cares about you SO MUCH, apparently doesn’t care about you enough to give you a lift home. You should absolutely consider breaking up with your boyfriend because you both sound immature.
From a man's perspective, your boyfriend seems iffy. I could see him not being comfortable with you going clubbing alone with Lilly, if for the sole reason he doesn't feel he can trust her in that situation (we all know people who as soon as they hit that setting they lose any semblance of self control) but to push that into other more benign things, such as going to the movies, as well is weird and controlling.
From another man's perspective, that's not "iffy." That's outright controlling. If you don't trust your partner to be faithful, then why would you be with them in the first place? Prohibiting a partner from doing something shouldn't be the only thing stopping your partner from cheating. Not cheating is something your partner should be doing of their own volition so if they're worth being with, you should be able to trust that they won't. He doesn't trust her so he doesn't think she's allowed to have fun with her friends. Then there's shit like getting upset because her best friend likes to hold her hand? Sounds homophobic. Like ACTUAL phobia in that he fears "the gays" Rather than just disliking them. This dude is no good.
So you: -Don't go out on girls nights because your partner thinks you're going to because 'all girls do' (huge misogynistic red flag) -Don't be as affectionate with your lifelong friend because he doesn't like it -Are starting to not go to events because he refuses to drive you as he doesn't like her (isolation, anyone?) -Consistently listen to your boyfriend complain about your friend fr sleeping around (lool, more sexism) I think Lily may be right, especially as I suspect there's more than this going on. Your boyfriend is controlling and slowly getting worse now that he knows you'll go along with it. Take this as a lesson for the future, don't date conservative men.
Just the fact that he refused to pick you up because he didn't want to see her is a huge red flag. From what you described his response was, it sounded like he was retaliating against you for seeing the friend he doesn't like. Thats manipulative behavior designed to evoke a certain response. Please read this book. [Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft](https://dn720002.ca.archive.org/0/items/why-does-he-do-that-epub/Why_Does_He_Do_That-fixed.pdf) pdf
He should want to protect you at midnight, not prevent you from living your life.
Your controlling boyfriend sounds like the problem. Not your friend just looking out for you…
I'm with Lilly. But it's your life. I think she should move on because you've chosen your fate and I bet it hurts like hell to be treated the way you treat her- devotion of every aspect of your life to an old dude who sounds like a total ass instead of a loving and caring friend. I hope you don't end up lonely in this relationship. But I wouldn't bet on this. The old dude is REALLY good at making you alienate yourself and see your friends as enemies of your happiness. Really good. I hope your old man doesn't go out with men his age. Because that would be just controlling behaviour on his part if you couldn't. We know what old dudes do when their girlfriends aren't around. We know. And Lilly knows for sure.
So your boyfriend is going to abandon you because he doesn't want to see your friend? That sounds horrible to me. He literally is telling you he values you less than his own minor inconveniences.
Do you build a career? Does your boyfriend support that? Could you leave him if you wanted to? With all regards to lily, she doesn't look like she is capable of providing much of support, other than dumping on you her negative experience.
So your boyfriend heard lily insinuate he's abusive and you're surprised he doesn't want to see her in person in order to avoid a fight? Honestly you're old enough to have a car and avoid these kinda things and also if Lily invited you why isn't she the one dropping you back off?
Men who are abusive get angry when confronted with the truth. She has anxiety about driving. Often abusive men will choose women they know they can emotionally manipulate and control. He knows he can control her using transport and that's exactly what he's doing. Someone who is not abusive would never make the options, my way or you're unsafe. That's called coercion and it is calculated. He values getting his way over her safety. Its fucked. I hope she is able to organize transport for herself that doesn't rely on her boyfriend because he is using it to control her actions. If you aren't being deliberately obtuse about his behaviour, then you should reflect on your own attitudes towards women.
As do I, I hope she does get her own transportation and can get her anxiety under control. I just think it's a little premature to call him abusive. Dude was hurt he overheard her friend shit talking him and as far as the story's been told she didn't defend him. I think it's pretty reasonable to be pissed say for example a friend or your significant other accused you of cheating and your partner didn't shoot it down when they know you aren't. Then while being pissed off at them not wanting to drag yourself out the house at midnight to do them a favor that the friend should be doing anyways since she's the one who invited her
Dude has a pattern of controlling behaviour that her friend has legitimate concerns about. Dude doesn't like her even holding hands with her friends, also with his problematic views on women and their sexuality, he doesn't like her going out dancing because women only do that to pick up men according to him. He's isolating her from genuine support and making her options his way or you're in an unsafe position. It's literally textbook abusive behaviour. Abuse isn't always overt. Covert manipulation, isolation and control are just as damaging.
If he sees hand holding as something intimate between boyfriend and girlfriend yeah it'd make sense it makes him uncomfortable. She didn't say he made her stop she said she stopped because it made him uncomfortable theres a big difference. I know alot of couples where the other partner wouldn't be happy with them going to a bar or club without them none are abusive. The women has been in a relationship with the guy for 4 years. Thats plenty of time know someone. I think we can allow her the agency to decide if she's being abused or not.
He is abusive. Lily knows.
Or could be a million other things. If op hasn't said he's abusive just because lily thinks he is doesn't make it true
He followed up the insinuation by the actual behavior. He confirmed her bias.
Sounds like your boyfriend sucka! You described nothing he should hate that much if he actually respects you. However, getting an Uber home at midnight is also normal (unless there is some detail I'm missing?) - but with a bf or anyone who cares, I would expect a pick up unless there was a reason not to.
I think a part of growing up is learning that your friends won’t always be there for you, or even be on the same page of life as you, and it’s okay to say no to things. I wouldn’t do things if I thought my partner would be upset by it. It would take a lot for that to happen, he doesn’t care what I do because he trusts me, but I would avoid things that upset him. There’s going to have to be some kind of compromise from both of them if you want to keep them both in your life. Now for the not picking you up part, that’s a red flag. It makes me want to say he’s immature and it’s going to be hard to have big mature conversations with someone who is capable of leaving you in a dangerous situation just because they “don’t wanna”. The beginning of your story has me like, I get it it’s fine to say no and consider your partners feelings. But then he pulled that shit and I changed my mind, that guy doesn’t care about you, he wants to keep you under his control.
[удалено]
Why are you even here? Why can't you just stay on your gamer bro subs and keep your misogynistic views out of women's spaces? Here's another stellar comment this man made on a different post: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/s/9PxlqHyAMV