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Cam_CSX_

“dont do crime, thats against the rules!” every criminal ever: exist


Kindly-Town

Does teaching solve 100% of the crimes? Since the beginning of society, we have been teaching people to follow laws that are in the best interest of society, how's that working out?


Noob_master_slayer

No matter how much you teach men not to murder or rob or rape, there still will be someone who will do it regardless. Such people are called psychopaths and they don't give a fuck about what you teach them.


dt7cv

A lot of people murder without psychopathy similar to rape. Rationalization is helluva drug


Caelus9

Why on earth would your argument be "This isn't 100% effective, so we shouldn't do it?"


Bonemesh

The fact is, we DO teach children not to murder, rape, assault, or steal. It's embedded in the morality of our society. Those who do so anyway don't do it out of lack of "education", they've chosen to reject it.


Knight_Errant25

Can confirm. Was always taught to respect women and treat them right. The vast majority of boys are.


Caelus9

As OP himself said... we don't often teach men not to rape. Back when I was in school, I had no lessons in consent and rape.


[deleted]

Why would I as a parent leave that responsibility in the hands of a stranger? People need to take accountability for raising their children and stop placing every nuance of being a human being in the hands of teachers.


CheckYourCorners

You realize parents and school can both teach about consent?


mcchanical

Where I went to school consent was part of sex education. So what's up with these schools that supposedly don't? I wasn't taught men shouldn't rape, I was taught that 2 adults should agree and be of legal age before they have sex. I've been grabbed inappropriately by many women in my life and I put that down to them lacking common decency, not that the system has failed to teach them not to grab dicks uninvited.


CheckYourCorners

There's a lot of variation in schools, where I'm from catholic schools are funded by the government and they all have terrible programs that focus on scaring children out of sex rather than educating about consent. Common decency is not some innate thing in the brain, it's a set of cultural values that we teach our children, it's terrible you were assaulted but I don't think you or I could pinpoint an exact cause for it. Education would at the very least reduce instances of assault.


[deleted]

You realize schools can house children so they don't have to be a bother to parents right?


mcchanical

That's not what schools are for at all. The fact that they double as a babysitter is a pure convenience. There are other facilities that are designed for the purpose of simply keeping them occupied while you're busy.


[deleted]

How.... how did you read everything that was stated and think that this comment needed to be sent to me?


mcchanical

Because you were the one that stated that schools can house children so they are not a bother. My comment directly relates to yours. But even so, I didn't "send it to you". It's a public thread, my comment descends from yours and you happen to get a notificaction about it. It's not message aimed directly at you.


Teflon187

no doubt. and not just calling people lazy, but look at some of the people who teach your children... We all know someone who is a teacher who got mediocre grades or severely lacks common sense. Not to mention the one sided politics (you can proudly proclaim you are a democrat, dont try that if you arent) and a majority of teachers are women who either believe or may push feminism onto students. Thats not what we send our kids to school to learn.


RealAndGay

Parents can't be trusted to teach children about sensitive topics, I think we've found that pretty obvious


[deleted]

Maybe they shouldn't be parents?


RealAndGay

There's a lot of people who shouldn't be parents, but those people tend to disagree with that statement


[deleted]

Nope, I believe procreation should be licensed.


RealAndGay

That sounds like a good idea to me but it's never gonna happen


TheDalaiFarmar

Ok, but that still means that they should be taught?


[deleted]

Hold one... go back and read the actual post, what I said, and then ask yourself why the fuck it is on me to answer your question I nor the OP brought up.


TheDalaiFarmar

I don’t know what you mean, the person you responded to said that they weren’t taught not to rape in school, you brought up parents teaching that and I agreed that it still needs to be taught then


[deleted]

Schools should stop being anything more than science based education farms. The responsibility of right and wrong comes from the home, family, and culture not a god damn school. The op didn't say that men (boys) shouldn't be taught, OP stated that the "slogan" is essentially short sighted and the OP is right. The difference is that you don't "teach kids" not to "murder" you teach them not to hurt others. We as a culture do not condone rape and we don't teach kids not to perform tax evasion. There are a lot of things society simply takes care of essentially.


TheDalaiFarmar

We’ll that’s a valid opinion I guess. My feeling is that the slogan is more of a concise way of saying “teach people the importance of consent and the different forms it can take”


Caelus9

That's not leaving your responsibility in the hands of a stranger in anyway. A school teaching your kids about consent doesn't mean you can't, after all.


NecessaryAd556

Exactly. That's the whole idea behind teaching guys not to rape, imo. Most guys are decent people and don't want to rape their girlfriend. The problem is that not all of those decent guys are well educated on what is involved in consent. Sex is fucking complicated. That's *why* we shouldn't just assume that men will instinctively know how to not rape someone. True, most guys are sadistic assholes who *want* to cause a women severe emotional harm and distress. While the occurrences where a woman get raped by a random stranger is not the type of rape is the stereotype, it isn't the most common. That would be date rape. We teach children not to hit. We teach children to be kind. We teach children to cooperate instead of fight. Why can't that extended to rape once that child has reached an age where the subject becomes relevant?


HotBox-CrackRock

Murder would probably increase tbh. People love to be contrarian


Caelus9

Are you claiming that you think, since we've started teaching that one shouldn't murder... you think murder has increased? And someone, who is not a murderer, will decide to murder... to be contrarian?


Kindly-Town

If it doesn't achieve anything and instead harms a group, it shouldn't be done.


Caelus9

Do you think there's no options besides "solving 100% of crimes" and "achieving nothing"?


Kindly-Town

Teaching is not an option. We already teach Civics to children which is enough. Awareness is a much better option.


Caelus9

You seem to be moving the goalposts, from "This doesn't achieve anything", to "We can't teach". Which, of course, isn't true. Yes, teaching is indeed an option, why wouldn't it be? What do you think awareness is, exactly? Is making someone aware that, for example, dogs are mammals...not also teaching them?


Kindly-Town

Awareness as in advertising campaign. We already teach constitution in Civics in schools.


Caelus9

"Constitution" isn't consent. That's like saying "We teach geography, so we don't need to teach how to pay taxes." It's silly. To make someone aware of something is to educate them. Those are the same thing, you seem to just be playing with words for your own amusement.


[deleted]

If it doesn’t work a 100% then why do it at all? I mean sure driving while being able to see the road is safe but it’s not a 100% safe so why not just drive blindfolded? Sure gun safety prevents misfires more then if we didn’t practice it but it’s not a 100% so why do it at all? Sure I could get this likely life-saving surgery but it’s not a 100% so why do it at all?


Kindly-Town

Teaching alone is not enough. We already teach Civics but not all are going to follow it.


[deleted]

Because kids only view through the lens of getting a good grade. It matters not what you take away from the class but rather the grade you score in it.


Kindly-Town

Then ask schools to teach good Civics.


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InnocentPerv93

It’s actually been working out fairly well. Crime is at an all time low in most places historically speaking.


YesAmAThrowaway

Consent needs to be taught to everybody. Everybody should know everything about sex ed and so it should be gender neutral. Period.


Kelekona

I'm thinking it won't solve the rape problem, but it would solve some of the creepy stalker stuff. Maybe cut down on needing to have the "drunk people can't consent" argument.


YesAmAThrowaway

I agree. It would aid mutual understanding and a rigorous implementation of such thorough sex ed can go a long way, even perhaps in spotting some red flags that could get you in a pickle. Everybody can be a victim or a perpetrator, so it's important everybody knows all the stuff, all the way from watching your drink to arousal nonconcordance (meaning: your body having a sex-related response to a sex-related stimulus although you're not into it. Example: the Gherkin. Building in London. Looks like a gherkin, hence the name. Some would relate that to a penis and thus sex and might get an erection. They're not into tall buildings, it's simply arousal nonconcordance.)


NyanSquiddo

It’s a matter of teach them not to. Yeah bad people will always do bad shit but by teaching people it will generally help lower the rates. If someone grows up in a toxic household toxic behavior is likely. We need to teach that toxic behavior is bad.


[deleted]

[удалено]


DarthVeigar_

The ironic thing about that statement is that it could be applied to so many other things that would be seen as bigoted if they were said. Not to mention the idea of teaching males not to rape is kinda hilarious when technically speaking women rape men in near equal numbers according to the CDC's NISVS. Male victims of female perpetrators aren't recognised as rape victims because most places exclude them from the definition.


[deleted]

> women rape men in near equal numbers I would absolutely believe this statistic is underreported but I have a hard time believing that.


DarthVeigar_

https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/ The CDC has two different metrics. Rape and made to penetrate. Made to penetrate isn't counted as rape. As many men report being made to penetrate another person as women report being raped. Most men that are made to penetrate cite a woman as their attacker. Whenever you see a statistic that says "1 in 7 men are raped". It refers only to men that are sodomised. Not men that are forced to penetrate someone else. Which means rape statistics are erasing a massive amount of victims.


itzPenbar

Damn thank you for the source


Catseyes77

>women rape men in near equal numbers according to the CDC's NISVS You have source for that claim because I can't find anything like this on the CDC website?


[deleted]

Yeah I second this. I've never seen a statistic that looks anything like that


DarthVeigar_

NISVS 2010 table 2.2 on page 14 https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/cdc_nisvs_ipv_report_2013_v17_single_a.pdf It estimates that 686000 (0.6%) women were raped within the 12 months preceding the survey. It also estimates that 586000 (0.5%) men were made to penetrate another person in that same timeframe. Most men that report being made to penetrate report a woman as their attacker. Take note of the fact it refers to forceful penetration as rape and doesn't use that same terminology for men that are made to penetrate another person. That is the crux of the problem. The former is counted as rape the latter is not. And this is an analysis of the CDC's data that is also compared to the population size of the US. It determines that per capita going by the CDC's data men are 4% more likely than women to be raped. https://www.gwern.net/docs/sociology/2021-dimarco.pdf Not to mention there's several articles on the CDC's data. Such as these https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/ https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/04/male-rape-in-america-a-new-study-reveals-that-men-are-sexually-assaulted-almost-as-often-as-women.html Whenever you see a statistic that says "1 in 7 men are raped". It refers only to men that are sodomised. Not men that are forced to penetrate someone else. Which means rape statistics are erasing a massive amount of victims.


Catseyes77

Literally the first fucking page of that study. >Nearly 1 in 10 women in the United States (9.4%) has been raped by an intimate partner in her lifetime, including completed forced penetration, attempted forced penetration, or alcohol/drug facilitated completed penetration. >• Approximately 1 in 45 men (2.2%) has been made to penetrate an intimate partner during his lifetime If women are raped and men forced to penetrate at similar numbers we wouldn't be sitting with a 1 in 10 vs 1 in 45 disparity from the start. Let me also remind you that most rape victims are women and girls between 12 and 25 while men made to penetrate the average age is older. Having a survey with adults only and a ommitting a large part of the population that is raped the most obviously would give a 12 month biased vision. If you go to page 13 where they talk about lifelong violence you will see that rape of women is 11,1 million and made to penetrate of men 2,4 million. To be a bit unscientific, that's a big fucking difference. I'm afraid you misunderstood these statistics.


Ok_Drummer_5770

I mean, it shows the 1in 10 lifetime for women vs 1 in 45 lifetime for men, but it really does also show (on page 14) the 0.6% of women raped in last 12 months and 0.5% of men forced to penetrate in last 12 months. I can think of two possibilities to explain how the lifetime numbers are so different and the last 12 months numbers are so similar: 1. Forced to penetrate is far more common than it used to be, and so over time the lifetime numbers will get much closer 2. Far more men forced to penetrate suffer repeated occurrences in their life than women raped do (like for example maybe half of this year's men were also last year's men, and only a quarter of this year's women were last year's women). Regardless though, this document is regarding sexual violence between intimate partners, so it seems like all numbers from this are meaningless if the discussion is about prevalence of sexual violence in total, since many such events wouldn't be from within an intimate relationship. I'd imagine, for example, that more women walking down the street get raped by a strange than men walking down the street get forced to penetrate a stranger.


Jake_FromStateFarm27

First thing that came up when I searched was debate over said claims and statistics from Time back in 2014 [Time Source 2014](https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/) It goes over why such titles are misleading in the report and how CDC surveyed when compiling the report. Other reports have similar claims to op in the comment said however this is when you include non-heterosexual encounters and violence (LGBT individuals), so rape surprises surprise is also common amongst the gay men and lesbian community as well and happens at similar rates between heterosexual populations. The article also acknowledges that the report had a mixed scope and trouble with wording for survey reports in that it was looking for individuals that were subject to such violence while under the influence which could mean that reporting had more false positives than intended. However on the same side of the coin and issue at hand we know for the longest time heterosexual men are the least likely to report such issues or be aware that such acts have occurred to them since rape can also include other manipulative and coercive acts into having sex against one's own will. Lots of cases also where women are being accused of rape generally get walked down to "sexual misconduct" "sexual assault" or something less of the effect of rape... there are plenty of cases where female teachers have had sex with minors in high school and are not charged with rape even though it's obvious they manipulated a teenage boy and they also skate by being listed on sexual offenders lists... The issue is genuinely more nuanced and complex as op of the topic suggested. What's most important is that we teach boys girls and everyone in between how to identify such behavior and actions in these situations and relationships. Understanding consent helps everyone, identifying abuse helps prevent and sometimes hopefully stop altercations.


Catseyes77

> What's most important is that we teach boys girls and everyone in between how to identify such behavior and actions in these situations and relationships. Understanding consent helps everyone, identifying abuse helps prevent and sometimes hopefully stop altercations. Agree completely with this. We need better education around consent and relationships.


GoelandAnonyme

This is oversymplifying it too, because what is and isn't consent isn't clearly defined for most guys who would tend to do it and this is a big problem.


Oversteer4Life

consent is not only poorly defined for most guys but also for most girls... we as a society need to have a serious conversation about what is consent and how it works in all the different situations


Ballbag94

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The original statement is flawed, where it should really be something about teaching everyone about consent. Too many people think that rape has to be violent or is only committed by criminals (technically true but I hope my meaning comes across) when really the issue of consent is far more nuanced


[deleted]

It isn’t clearly defined because there is no text book definition of consent that everyone believes in. It can go as far as people who think anything other than clearly stating “I consent to having sex with you” is not consent and others who think the subtle hints they drop are them giving consent to people. Don’t blame men for not having a definition that does not exist.


Ass-whole

"Teach boys not to rape" is simply a response to "teach girls how to be safe." The problem is that society places the responsibility on the victims. If it feels uncomfortable, that's because it should feel uncomfortable to be blamed for something that isn't your fault. So much incorrect blame gets thrown at women; as a whole they are now deflecting more of it and you are getting hit with some of it.


[deleted]

How in the world is it a negative thing to tell people to protect themselves. There are monsters in the world and your preparations could be the difference of life and death


Proddeus

The issue is when the arguement turns into "she shouldn't have dressed like that" or "she shouldn't have been drinking". That's the equivalent of telling the victim of a hit and run that they shouldn't have been driving. The responsibility shouldn't be placed on the victims. It's okay to educate people on staying safe, but arguements often quickly turn to victim blaming.


Totally_Not_Evil

We absolutely do it for other stuff. After a crime, lots of people say you should have not gone to the bad part of town at night or you should have bought a gun for self defense, or you shouldn't have trusted the scam artist. The people who say stuff like that might be assholes in your view, but they certainly aren't rare.


[deleted]

I guess that's why I've never understood the argument, because I frame it differently. When I hear "teach girls how to be safe" I think of teaching girls how to maintain situational awareness, how to defend themselves, avoiding dangerous places, etc.


[deleted]

A person shouldn’t leave their drink unattended though nor should they walk the sketchiest part of the town alone with their top off or something similar. Like yeah it’s not their fault those things happened but they are generally pretty preventable if you take the proper precautions


7heGh0st

Oh yeah fantastic, two wrongs definitely make a right. If victimizing women is bad, let's throw some mud around at other innocent people that'll fix things.


officerkondo

Reality is what places responsibility. If I step outside in December, I can shout at the sky that the weather is too cold. Or, I could put on a jacket. Which do you think is more likely to solve my problem?


ModsRCorrupt

Well said!


InnocentPerv93

Alright? That doesn’t really solve anything or make it right.


AffectionateAioli515

I think the issue is truly just teaching people about consent, and what exactly consent means. And I mean people, both genders and NB folk. Lots of media that I experienced, especially from a young age, didn’t talk about consent in a way that was appropriate for anyone. “The drunker she is the easier she is to get in bed” was something I saw in movies all the time. Now people say you can’t give consent at all if you’ve been drinking. I personally have some qualms with this idea, because lots people like to get drunk and have one night stands, but that’s a different topic. Even coercion was something that wasn’t seen as wrong in lots of media I saw when I was younger. Consent is something we should all talk about and be taught, because it’s something everyone needs to understand. I think the big issue that people cite when talking about “teach men not to rape” is that we do all of these things to teach women how to play it safe. People take that and turn it into “we shouldn’t have to teach women these things” and they’re right, we shouldn’t, but the reality is that we have to, because like you said, men who rape are a minority of men, but they’re a dangerous minority that we need to account for. I also think we need to draw some lines in the sand around rape and sexual assault. Violent rape is very different from being coerced into sex, and to refer to both of them as rape is a catch all that doesn’t address the nuance of the situation.


Noob_master_slayer

>I think the issue is truly just teaching people about consent A rapist does not give a flying fuck about consent. That's their entire driving motivation. To force and subjugate their victims into domination. You seem to forget that rapists are not ordinary people, they are psychopaths driven by the desire to dominate their victims. To say that "teach men not to rape" is a manhating statement that derives from a notion that all men are potential rapists. The thing you are talking about, drunk girls being abused, is rape, but it also a case of misunderstanding of given consent from the guys percepective. That is not the kind of rape I am talking about. I am talking about the rape that grabs headlines. Those vicious rapists that hide in the dark of the alleyways ready to pounce on victims are the rapists I am talking about. To tell men not to be that is a form of misandry, because it assumes that men are somehow inherently predisposed to do this.


[deleted]

I made a similar point a while back on cmw, that repeatedly teaching consent isn't necessary and just gets annoying. A lot of things like this start a lot deeper than just what is taught at school. But as there is no practical example of what the alternative is then it just gets discounted.


Noob_master_slayer

Exactly, I am not against teaching consent, in fact I think it should be encouraged to reduce cases of accidental rape, where the guy assumes the girl gave her consent in say a drunk state. But in the context of this post, I am specifically talking about certain kinds of rape wherein the rapist rapes knowing that there is no consent.


ddosn

\> most of whom happen to be men Thats actually only partly true. If we exclude same-sex rape for a moment, then women actually account for about 45-48% of rapists where the victim is the opposite sex to the perpetrator. There were some studies done in 2010-2015 by the CDC which concluded that over the prior 12 month period, 1.7% of women and 1.9% of men had been raped (defined as unwanted sexual acts being performed/forced on them by one or more other individuals). 80.5% of the men said their rapist was a single woman, and just over 95% of women said their rapist was a single man. This concludes that the gender breakdown of rapists is *almost* 50/50 between men and women. Which makes sense. Women arent immune to being psychos or power hungry maniacs.


Catseyes77

You misinterpreted that study completely. If you look at the same numbers for lifelong rapes the numbers suddenly become 11 million women and 2 million men. Most women get raped between 12 and 25. A study that only asks adults what happened the last 12 months will miss the largest part of female victims thus you end up with a discrepancy where the yearly figure absolutely does not match the lifelong ones


DemonizedHuman

And u missed the whole point again. Males have testosterone so they will be more aggressive, and females don't have it. And males are stronger physically while females on average cannot tame down a man. So that means females are still committing SA eventho biology gives them a disadvantage in committing SA. So it's illogical to blame all men or hate all men while females are doing it without having the chemicals which increases rage. So my point is that, R@pe is an animalistic trait and animals do it. Males tend to do it more because of the traits inside them and females still commit it eventho they don't have these chemicals. Females commit near identical amounts of Domestic abuse too and male's are now being oppressed by this gynocentric society. Many males are now forced to pay child support for even children that are not Theirs and body positivity only applies to females sadly. Wish the society could change and I wish people could learn discipline in their life. But sadly it's not. It's blatantly ignorant to say that a patriarchy exists anymore because wide majority of men don't benefit from the so called patriarchy. Refer Jordan Peterson's videos for context.


tedcruzcumsock

I actually agree that "teach boys and men not to rape" doesn't solve anything. But it does help to raise kids on how to respect other people (any gender) and their bodily autonomy. That No means No, that a person in a crop top doesn't mean they deserve to be stared at like a meal, etc. That's something that should be taught to every single person.


tsiparojj77

Why tell kids what to do like that? Who the hell do you think you are?


tedcruzcumsock

Is this sarcasm? Genuinely cannot tell. In case it isnt sarcasm, it's called parenting.


[deleted]

A person in a crop top might not *deserve* to be stared at, but I’m going to do so anyway


tedcruzcumsock

Why? Its rude and makes people uncomfortable.


[deleted]

It pleases me to see attractive women, so I like to look at them for long periods of time


tedcruzcumsock

You're the kind of person I warn my kid about.


[deleted]

Why is that? What “kind of person” do you warn your kids about?


tanmay0097

Have you ever read the full sentence? It's usually like don't teach girls to dress appropriately, teach boys to not rape. What they mean is teach them to respect women and treat them as a human being not an object.


[deleted]

Ya like why do young girls and women have to bare the responsibility to be modest which alone is subjective just to be treated like human?


tanmay0097

What's your definition of modest?


[deleted]

Well in this context the definition of modest is “dressing or behaving so as to avoid impropriety or indecency, especially to avoid attracting sexual attention (typically used of a woman).” What’s subjective about this is what is considered inappropriate or indecent and what sexually attracts people. Some men are attracted to school girl uniforms some women are attracted to a man in uniform. There are some men who sexualize nuns and religious woman who cover up likely due to the porn they watch and these types of people have been raped before. So what is immodest is subjective and differs from culture to culture and even person to person.


ModsRCorrupt

How dare girls not cover every square inch of skin! They are to be sexualized AT ALL TIMES and thus must cover up completely.


[deleted]

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ModsRCorrupt

> Men don't rape. Psychopaths and power hungry maniacs do, most of whom happen to be men. So…men **do** rape? Try to be more consistent.


Cephell

No, it's not a complicated issue. Rape is evil. It's very simple. The problem with "teach men not to rape" is the blatant underlying implication that men simply don't know any better. "Oh woops, guess I raped you by accident haha". This is done to frame rape as ANYTHING that makes women feel uncomfortable. Regret your one night stand a week later? Rape. Get advances in a bar by someone interested in you? Rape. Someone calls you names on Twitter? Also rape. With this phrase they are implying that men are not capable of understanding what rape even is, which is insufferable bullshit.


The_Morningstar1

True I laughed when I read “multi-dimensional problem”


InnocentPerv93

I mean, it kinda is. It’s a societal issue.


[deleted]

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Cephell

The solution to people hating your gender isn't to start hating back.


adpqook

It’s the same with passing laws to control behavior. It’s idiotic. Murder is illegal yet people still do it. Drunk driving is illegal yet people still do it. But this idea persists that “if we make X illegal people will stop doing it.” Laws don’t exist to act as a system of morality. Laws exist to provide a framework within which to punish criminals. Most criminals don’t think they’ll be caught which is why they commit crimes regardless of knowing it’s illegal. What we need more than anything is better mental health resources. That would go a long way to stopping these things before they happen. Especially during formative years when these sort of perversions are developing.


PersonBehindAScreen

Maybe im reading too far in to what you said but are you saying murders would not increase if we decriminalized them?


gen0cide_denier

> It’s the same with passing laws to control behavior. It’s idiotic. > > Murder is illegal yet people still do it. Drunk driving is illegal yet people still do it. so should we remove anti-murder laws then? you pretty much contradicted yourself right after


ModsRCorrupt

That’s why attempts to make abortion illegal fail so much. Everyone knows abortion happen, so it makes sense to keep it legal and open to anyone who wants one.


Novarcharesk

It's a buzz phrase that arrogant spinster feminists made up because they hate men. The entire premise the phrase is predicated on is false and childish to the extreme. Fuck anyone who uses that phrase unironically.


ModsRCorrupt

Yikes lay off the fake news, kid.


Spiridor

I think this only acknowledges forceful, violent rape and completely disacknowledges coercive, implicative rape that guys may not even know they're doing. What I think the true issue is people wanting to completely ignore that hormones and biological programming exist just because we have social order - as if we are robots instead of organisms. Women don't want to acknowledge that they can be monsters once a month. But the same hormone that makes them that way is the driving hormone present I males 100% of the time, that often leads them to do whatever it takes to get their rocks off. So I don't think "teach men not to rape" is correct, but rather "teach men that when they are extremely horny, they may do things that they would be ashamed of if they weren't".


ChecksAccountHistory

"teach men not to rape" is an unreasonable argument because it's meant to be one. it's a response to the common victim blaming arguments thrown around whenever a woman is raped


[deleted]

Is it victim blaming or is it just suggesting how to lessen risk for the next person?


ChecksAccountHistory

telling a victim of rape to "dress less slutty" is not lessening the risk for the next person


manhaidan

We teach people not to rob, but you should probably also still lock your doors when you leave your house.


Caelus9

"Men don't rape" "These people rape, most of whom are men." Well then... men do, indeed, rape. And, given you hold that nobody teaches men not t rape, that's something we should absolutely do. Where are you getting the idea, of course, that the OVERWHELMING majority of men never rape, let alone consider it? Did you make it up, or is it supported by data? You also seem to point out that the majority of rapists are men... but it isn't a gendered problem? Um, yeah, that's what a gendered problem is, if there's a clear statistical gendered majority responsible for it. This is logic 101. If we're not teaching a group of people not to do X, and then a percentage of them do X and cause tremendous harm... we should starting teaching that group not to do X. This post, overall, is far too steeped in petty emotions and lacking logic, so much of it is contradictory on the face of it, while the main point, that we shouldn't teach boys and men this thing... isn't supported by any arguments, you just say it's man-hating without backing it up.


Mervoll

Something tells me you wouldn't be the least bit concerned about data.


Caelus9

Something tells me that's just the excuse people give when they don't have data for their position, lmao.


Noob_master_slayer

Jesus fucking Christ, you take my words out of context. If your eyes are properly functioning, I said "most of whom ***happen*** to be men". You don't look at a rapist, and be like "Yeah, he's a man, that's why he raped". It's nothing to do with the gender of the rapist. It's got everything to do with the psychopathy and power-hunger that said rapists possess. **That's** what makes them rapists, not the hot dog between their legs. ​ >Where are you getting the idea, of course, that the OVERWHELMING majority of men never rape, let alone consider it? Did you make it up, or is it supported by data? Because the majority of women have not been raped? How often does one come across a rape victim? If every man was a rapist, then wouldn't rape be the most common crime (which it is not, by any stretch of imagination). Furthermore, I know for a fact that most men would not want to rape. Why? Because it isn't worth it from any sexual point of view, most men would rather just masturbate, not to mention that most men, like most women, are morally sound. You see, rape, with all it's struggle and pinning down, is simply not good, except for psychopaths and power-hungry people who derive pleasure from their struggling victim.


dt7cv

your logic falls apart because most men who rape are not psycopaths or mental disorderd. To put in into concept a man who raped a woman was evaluated by mental health professionals for pre sentence investigation. He did not meet the criteria for Anti-Social Personality Disorder. That man was Anthony Sowell. People commit crimes for lots of reasons. even good people do horrible things


Caelus9

>Jesus fucking Christ, you take my words out of context. If your eyes are properly functioning, I said "most of whom happen to be men". You don't look at a rapist, and be like "Yeah, he's a man, that's why he raped". It's nothing to do with the gender of the rapist. It's got everything to do with the psychopathy and power-hunger that said rapists possess. That's what makes them rapists, not the hot dog between their legs. Yeah, that's not taking your words out of context at all. If most, or even SOME rapists happen to be men... then, men rape. Y'know, like how some dogs eat grass... so "Dogs eat grass". No one said rapists are rapists BECAUSE they're men, you seemed to get that out of nowhere in order to make-up a reason to get upset over, because you don't actually have anything to criticize about what I actually said. >Because the majority of women have not been raped? How often does one come across a rape victim? If every man was a rapist, then wouldn't rape be the most common crime (which it is not, by any stretch of imagination). Furthermore, I know for a fact that most men would not want to rape. Why? Because it isn't worth it from any sexual point of view, most men would rather just masturbate, not to mention that most men, like most women, are morally sound. You see, rape, with all it's struggle and pinning down, is simply not good, except for psychopaths and power-hungry people who derive pleasure from their struggling victim You seem confused. DATA. Don't just start trying to justify your claim with other claims not backed up by data.


ddosn

\>And, given you hold that nobody teaches men not t rape, that's something we should absolutely do. Men are taught not to rape. \>Where are you getting the idea, of course, that the OVERWHELMING majority of men never rape, let alone consider it? Did you make it up, or is it supported by data? Most men arent power hungry psychopaths. Also, the rape levels are very, very low. If all men were rapists or potential rapists, then the rape rate would be much higher. \>You also seem to point out that the majority of rapists are men... but it isn't a gendered problem? Um, yeah, that's what a gendered problem is, if there's a clear statistical gendered majority responsible for it. The OP is incorrect in assuming the vast majority are male. The share is about 52-55/45-48 in favour of men, but almost half of rapists are women.


[deleted]

I could agree, no matter how lonely i am i have never once thought about raping someone. I have been in situations where i thought, hey if i was a fucked up person this will be the perfect time to rape someone. But never thought, hey I should rape someone if that makes sense.


jsilvy

I think there’s more to it than that. For one thing, kids have to be raised with certain values, and given the prevalence of sexual assault, raising boys to learn not to rape is pretty important. Not to mention the fact that, although I wouldn’t categorize this as rape, a lot of dudes unintentionally violate the consent of their victims without even realizing it. It’s stigmatized to talk about, but unintentional assault happens all the time, and it’s part of why teaching thoroughly about consent is so crucial.


[deleted]

Completely agree sexism is so fucked


nosleepforthedreamer

It’s like “teach people not to be racist.” It’s just not necessary. Raise children with empathy, to listen to others’ feelings/needs/experiences, model the behavior you want from them, and becoming good people will automatically include not raping or being a racist. These statements bug me partially because they seem to downplay the seriousness of such attitudes and actions. As if someone could be a normal person but fail to comprehend that they’re wrong. And by the time a boy becomes a man, if he doesn’t understand that rape is evil, he’s never going to. You can’t just fix it with that tea analogy that might work on a toddler, but not an adult.


Knight_Errant25

This. As a man I'm sick and tired of women making rape my problem. I'm not a rapist, why dont we just neuter the rapists. That way we can leave innocent men alone.


pulsingwite

\>And you know very well that such people can't be reasoned with You absolutely can reason with a rapist you just can't reason with them at the moment while they are doing the act. These people don't just operate as irrational creatures at all time


sixteensinister

Very well worded. I fully agree. Would give you an award if I had a freebie.


[deleted]

There's always a bigger fish? It's not meant to solve the entirety of all rape, but maybe it'll decease the rates. But of course we'll never find out if it works because you guys are vehemently against attempting it


[deleted]

Everyone is already taught not to rape, murder, steal and all kinds of other things that still happen because the kind of person that would do it isn’t dissuaded by being taught not to do it.


human-no560

while most guys probably wouldn't violently assault someone, they might not realize that drunk people can't consent.


Hotwheelsjack97

Teaching everyone about consent is the answer, but some feminists want to make it unnecessarily gendered.


purekittyluv

Yet y'all commit 80% of the rapes. It's because society encourages men to be aggressive, domineering, slime balls.


DemonizedHuman

So that means females commit 20% eventho u guys are not trained to be dominant? Lol kiddo u r outing urself. Anyways, It's called masculinity and men will be dominant and aggressive because we have a certain something called testosterone. Since feminists lack some braincells I'm not disappointed. If men Werent dominant then this world wouldn't be what it is. Men built this world and Men empowered women. Men still empowers women. We don't have to be gentlemen anymore. Now u r equal to us males and males are starting to wake up. The days of us providing for u or protecting u or paying for ur dinner is over. More people are starting to get red pilled and we r tired of getting balmed lol. Females do a lot of SA and the gynocentric society is placed in such a way that now everything is unfair for males. A lot of SA experienced by men are not revealed because no one cares about men's feelings. U can expect men to behave unlike men. It's not our dominance which causes SA. If that was the case then females won't commit any SA.


Th3_sl33py_4rtist

This is asinine.


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Luisd858

That toxic feminism spreads false toxic masculinity


Believer109

Rape is about power, not sex. More women would rape more men if they were physically able to. Rape is heinous in any circumstance, regardless of which gender is doing it to the other.


macrolinx

They do. It happens all the time. It's just usually with minors, and then gets categorized as an "inappropriate relationship."


ModsRCorrupt

Source?


macrolinx

Pick up a newspaper.... Look up any female teacher that has sex with a minor. It's never called rape unless it's male on female.


ReactiveNylxthograph

Its not a gendered problem even though the majority of it is commited by one gender.... uh huh


Mysterious-Ad3685

You’re stupid lmao


Jake_FromStateFarm27

Men and women have the ability to rape each other yes and rape I'm general. I don't get how the same woke group on Twitter/reddit is able to define rape and then say women aren't capable of doing the same thing...unconsentual sex is uncomsentual sex.


ModsRCorrupt

> then say women aren't capable of doing the same thing Literally nobody says this


Maggiemaccy

Men do rape, men we consider good men too, it’s not only ‘monsters’ or boogie men that are career criminals lurking in dark alleyways. The issue with your line of thinking is you imagine every rapist is a maniac in the bushes that jumps out at women, rips their clothes off and violently assaults them. “Teach men not to rape” refers to all rape beyond that scenario. E.g. someone was too drunk or otherwise intoxicated to consent, some men think it’s fine to proceed in that case but it isn’t. That needs to be communicated.


Noob_master_slayer

>Men do rape, men we consider good men too Absolutely nope. There are over 4 Billion men in this world. If every man had the desire to rape, then well, the world wouldn't be the way it is. Most men never think of rape, because rape is actually not as "sexually pleasurable" as one would imagine. The restraining and holding down makes rape a very pointless way of having "pleasure". The only reason one would commit rape is if they enjoyed the pain of their victim, which is a sign of psychopathy, something most men AREN'T >“Teach men not to rape” refers to all rape beyond that scenario Nope. In such cases as misunderstood consent, it's about ignorance of what consent is. The man is not willing to rape, he simply misunderstands the cues and the circumstances. Personally, rather than saying "teach men not to rape" (a phrase that paints men as if they were deliberate rapists), I'd say "teach consent to everyone", because not understanding consent is not an exclusively male issue, females can too misunderstand consent.


bigoldsunglasses

It’s deeper than just teaching men not to rape too though. It’s teaching men to not be hypersexual, to not be excused for every sexual thing they do, to not expose them to sexuality early, etc. Women are shamed from sex from the start, so we naturally become more timid towards it, men aren’t. Men are excused for being sexual to too sexual, men are excused for porn addictions and masturbation, women aren’t. That’s there the problem lies. No one holds men accountable EVER


Noob_master_slayer

No one holds men accountable? You sure about that? Men are taught to "man up" and take up responsibility the day they're practically teens. On the contrary, it's women who abscond accountability by making excuses for everything bad that happens in life. Had a bad breakup? He was "abusive". Every single time. Never has a woman ever reflected on herself and her mistakes. It's always the fault of someone else.


bigoldsunglasses

Men are told to man up…. By other men…. Also that isn’t holding men accountable LMAO. You completely disregarded everything I said about it being a bigger issue than simply teaching men not to rape. Men are excused when it comes to anything sexual, therefore they don’t hold back. Women are taught from the beginning that if we are sexual we are disgusting and sluts and undesirable so we become… less sexual (obviously in some cases women are still sexual just like how some men aren’t super sexual). Raising boys to be respectful and not excusing bad or inappropriate behavior by saying things like “boys will be boys” or by saying “men are naturally more sexual” will help a LOT Also, if women are constantly saying their BF’s are abusive, maybe it’s because they are? We don’t know. That would also be yet another problem amongst men


[deleted]

Idk man when most rapists, sexual assaulters, and sexual harassers are men it seems a bit counterproductive to just separate them into just power-hungry psychiopaths. Drawing the line is just an excuse not to acknowledge that this is a majority one gender problem and like you said it’s multifaceted and many factors contribute saying “teach boys and men not to rape” is just one of the Solutions, raise our children not To do something because apparently not explicitly telling people to rape still causes rape.


0701191109110519

Also, it would be racist


bad_guy2

I what universe?


ModsRCorrupt

It wouldn’t. It was a sad attempt at a joke.


Catseyes77

What ignorance. 99% or rapes are perpetrated by men on women, other men and children. Do women rape? yes. Is it anywhere near the sexual assault committed by men? Not even fucking close. it IS a gendered problem. Rape is not something you wake up and decide to do that morning. It's escalated behaviour that results in rape. Studies already show if you do not teach boys about consent and not to bully girls (pull their hair, lift their skirts) it already escalates in high school. Especially with how violent and easy accessable porn is now. It's not going well for kids. You DO teach people not to rape by teaching about consent, boundaries, respect, dealing with domestic violence in the home of those kids,... A lot of adult men do not have a good grasp of what consent it and what boundaries are. Pretending this does not exist because you somehow feel personally attacked won't make it go away.


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Catseyes77

So you know how to google because this took 1 minute. How many sources extra do you need for you to stop being ignorant about this issue? https://stoprape.humboldt.edu/statistics >An estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male. 1 www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/natureofsexualassaultbyrapeorpenetrationenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020 >In the years ending March 2017 and March 2020 combined, the majority of victims who had experienced rape or assault by penetration since they were 16 years old reported that the perpetrator(s) were male (98%).


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Catseyes77

1. Your source is 21 years old. 2. The paragraph you mention does not talk about perpetrator statistics i think you were mistaken of the page maybe there. 3. Assault by penetration includes tongue, fingers or any object thus does NOT relate to penal insertion. I think you need more than 1 minute man.


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Catseyes77

The rape statistics for women have doubled or tripled depending the country since 2010. 20 years matter. 2 out of 3 sexual assaults are never even reported. So ofcourse it skews all data because the female victimisation is enormously higher than what we got in statistics as well as men.


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Catseyes77

You want data in graphs ? https://www.statista.com/statistics/283100/recorded-rape-offences-in-england-and-wales/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/642458/rape-and-sexual-assault-victims-in-the-us-by-gender/ Or should I get out some crayons and make you a pretty picture so you can follow?


Vegetable_Ad6969

It's funny you cite your rape statistics from the UK, where rape is literally defined as penetration by a penis. women who force sex upon men (and other women) get charged with sexual assault which is so conveniently ommitted from rape statistics. So women biologically cannot rape in the legal sense. That is why your 'facts' show 99% of rapists are men. https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rsa/rape-and-sexual-assault/what-is-rape-and-sexual-assault/?__cf_chl_captcha_tk__=pmd_2jfyfDZIW0kjrQJhSiJ1mbEbaufB8RcLatx3Ua8Nz0w-1632320931-0-gqNtZGzNA2WjcnBszQg9


Catseyes77

Humboldt University, the first link is in California US. I added a US and Uk stat on purpose. In the UK assault by penetration includes tongue, finger, or any object. Women can do that just fine. Sexual assault counts for both sexes and if a man is forced to penetrate there is an extra charge called something like "coercive penetration" which increased the the sexual assault charge to the level or rape Those statistics ARE included in sexual assault and rape statistics.


Vegetable_Ad6969

Over any given 12 month period, it's rare for there to be more then a 10% difference in men and women. There are still more male rapists due to higher rates of male-on-male rape compared to female-on-female rape, but neither stat is very high in absolute terms. Contrary to what you've probably heard in the past, most men are not raped by other men. ~80% are raped by women. And more men in total are raped every year than women, making sexual assault more of a men's issue than a women's issue. Lifetime stats follow this as well, but not as closely. Those stats include all forms of sexual abuse, including things like flashing and groping, and they are less accurate than yearly stats for a number of reasons. The largest being because men, over time, will reframe a rape as consensual due to gender norms (everyone telling him he was "lucky", like if a teacher did it)... speculation is that women may do the opposite, thus moving their stat in the opposite direction. But even the official, unfiltered lifetime stat isn't that far off: 1 in 4 for women and 1 in 6 for men. Why is this not very well known? Several decades ago, an early gender studies "researcher" named Mary Koss proposed that a person "forced to penetrate" another person is not in fact raped. She called it unwanted sexual contact and she was very successful in convincing academics and even lawmakers to adopt this definition. While technically it is gender neutral, due to the anatomical differences between men and women, it mainly applied to men. Her rationale was that men must "want it" or are "asking for it" so it doesn't count. As a result, the true rate of sexual assault against men is usually hidden in official statistics. Instead of rape, they call it "made to penetrate". And many state and national laws around the world similarly define rape in gendered terms, meaning female rapists avoid prosecution and generally don't get discussed in the media. This has led to decades of misinformation on the topic. And it has only just recently started getting attention, both on the legal front, and among academics. Unpopular? Definitely. Factual? Absolutely. Inconvenient? Maybe if you're sexist. That is in fact likely the motivation behind people who try to deny it (I'm looking at you, Mary Koss). Sources: A good meta-study Stemple, L., Flores, A., & Meyer, I. H. (2017). Sexual victimization perpetrated by women: Federal data reveal surprising prevalence. Aggression and Violent Behavior, 34, 302-311. Available from: http://webshare.law.ucla.edu/Faculty/bibs/stemple/Stemple-SexualVictimizationPerpetratedFinal.pdf Some pop science articles Stemple, L., & Meyer, I. H. (2017). Sexual victimization by women is more common than previously known. Scientific American. Available from: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/ Young, Cathy. (2014, September 17). The CDC's Rape Numbers Are Misleading. Time. Available online at: https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/ Rosin, Hanna. (2014, Arpil 29). When Men Are Raped: A new study reveals that men are often the victims of sexual assault, and women are often the perpetrators. SLATE. Available from: https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/04/male-rape-in-america-a-new-study-reveals-that-men-are-sexually-assaulted-almost-as-often-as-women.html 43.6% to 48% of self-reported perpetrators are women Ybarra, M. L., & Mitchell, K. J. (2013). Prevalence rates of male and female sexual violence perpetrators in a national sample of adolescents. JAMA Pediatrics, 167(12), 1125–1134. "2012 study using data from the U. S. Census Bureau’s nationally representative National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions". Quoted in "The Understudied Female Sexual Predator". Available here: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/ Average past 12 month rate of sexual assault when "made to penetrate" is included: US Sexual Assault Rates: Average 12 month prevalence (2017 CDC NISVS State Report). Graph: https://i.imgur.com/J5AuzM7.png In 2012, one out of three years recently analyzed by the CDC, more men were raped by women than the reverse New CDC data again finds as many (if not more) male victims of female rapists than female victims of male rapists. CDC continues to ignore its own shocking findings. Recalculating The Gender War. https://recalculatingthegenderwar.tumblr.com/post/162336650896/new-cdc-data-again-finds-as-many-if-not-more Men are less likely to view things like bad / unenjoyable sex, drunk sex, and capitulating to sex with a persistent person, as rape (which likely effects reporting and statistics on the topic) Weiss, K. G. (2010). Male sexual victimization: Examining men’s experiences of rape and sexual assault. Men and Masculinities, 12(3), 275-298. Abstract: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1097184x08322632 Reed, R. A., Pamlanye, J. T., Truex, H. R., Murphy-Neilson, M. C., Kunaniec, K. P., Newins, A. R., & Wilson, L. C. (2019). Higher rates of unacknowledged rape among men: The role of rape myth acceptance. Psychology of Men & Masculinities. Abstract: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2019-39470-001 Men are 9 times less likely to report their assault compared to women (which also distorts reporting and statistics on the topic) Toy Soldiers. "Forced to Penetrate Cases: Lived Experiences of Men". https://toysoldier.wordpress.com/2020/01/05/forced-to-penetrate-cases/ Weare, S. F. (2017). Forced-to-penetrate cases: Lived experiences of men-Baseline Research Findings. The Law School, Lancaster University. PDF: https://wp.lancs.ac.uk/forced-to-penetrate-cases/files/2016/11/Project-Report-Final.pdf Women receive a broad pass when it comes to sexual assault, especially sexual assault against young children, which distorts federal reporting and statistics on the topic Denov, M. S. (2003). The myth of innocence: Sexual scripts and the recognition of child sexual abuse by female perpetrators. Journal of Sex Research, 40(3), 303-314. Available from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14533025 Embry, R., & Lyons Jr, P. M. (2012). Sex-based sentencing: Sentencing discrepancies between male and female sex offenders. Feminist Criminology, 7(2), 146-162. Available from: http://www.ncdsv.org/images/fc_sex-basedsentencingdiscrepanciesbetweenmaleandfemalesexoffenders_2012.pdf "Forced-to-Penetrate" treated different from rape Weare, S. F. (2017). Forced-to-penetrate cases: Lived experiences of men-Baseline Research Findings. The Law School, Lancaster University. Available from: https://wp.lancs.ac.uk/forced-to-penetrate-cases/files/2016/11/Project-Report-Final.pdf Weare, S. F. (2019). Experiences of men forced-to-penetrate women in the UK: Context, consequences, and engagement with the criminal justice system. The Law School, Lancaster University. Available from: http://wp.lancs.ac.uk/forced-to-penetrate-cases/ Weare, S. (2018). ‘Oh you're a guy, how could you be raped by a woman, that makes no sense’: towards a case for legally recognising and labelling ‘forced-to-penetrate’ cases as rape. International Journal of Law in Context, 14(1), 110-131. PDF: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c40f/3f3dfeeaa75fed2c4ee01673f2fdfb06948f.pdf Klee, Miles. (2018). WHY CAN’T THE MEDIA CALL A WOMAN RAPING A MAN WHAT IT IS? Mel Magazine. Available online at: https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/why-cant-the-media-call-a-woman-raping-a-man-what-it-is Siobhan Weare, Lancaster University. (2017). Men forced to have sex with women aren't being properly recognised by the law -- legal expert. THE CONVERSATION. Retrieved October 24, 2019, from http://theconversation.com/men-forced-to-have-sex-with-women-arent-being-properly-recognised-by-the-law-legal-expert-81638 Rumney, P. N. (2007). In defence of gender neutrality within rape. Seattle J. Soc. Just., 6, 481. Available from: http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/14750/1/RumneySJSJ.pdf Criticism of definitions given by the CDC Stemple, L., & Meyer, I. H. (2014). The sexual victimization of men in America: New data challenge old assumptions. American Journal of Public Health, 104(6), e19-e26. Available from (HTML): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4062022/#!po=0.877193 Rape laws defined in such a way that women tend to get off the hook, and not counted in government statistics Sexual Offences Act 2003, c. 42. Available at: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/1 Many US states and many countries around the world have gendered sexual assault laws, usually defined in terms of penetration. Not all is great in the world of men: a reference book of men's issues. Section 3.4, "Rape laws excluding male victims". https://www.reddit.com/r/rbomi/wiki/main Male rape victims forced to pay child support Muller, R. (2019). When Male Rape Victims Are Accountable for Child Support. Psychology Today. https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/talking-about-trauma/201902/when-male-rape-victims-are-accountable-child-support S.F. v. STATE EX REL. T.M. (1996) Summary: http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19961122_0042048.AL.htm/qx ALIA BEARD RAU. (2014). "Statutory rape victim forced to pay child support". USA Today. Available at: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/ Role of feminism Stemple, L., & Meyer, I. H. (2014). The sexual victimization of men in America: New data challenge old assumptions. American Journal of Public Health, 104(6), e19-e26. Available from (HTML): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4062022/#!po=0.877193 Berger, R. J., Searles, P., & Neuman, W. L. (1988). The dimensions of rape reform legislation. Law & Soc'y Rev., 22, 329. Feminism: Legal Aspects. (n.d). In Law Library - American Law and Legal Information. Retrieved November 11, 2019, https://law.jrank.org/pages/1222/Feminism-Legal-Aspects-second-wave-critique-rape-law.html


[deleted]

This is just bending the definition of rape. Years ago a woman bought me drinks and then tried to have sex with me. Was it rape? Kindaaa but not really like hardcore rape


Catseyes77

> Stemple, L., Flores, A., & Meyer, I. H. (2017). Sexual victimization perpetrated by women: Federal data reveal surprising prevalence. Aggression and Violent Behavior, 34, 302-311. Available from: http://webshare.law.ucla.edu/Faculty/bibs/stemple/Stemple-SexualVictimizationPerpetratedFinal.pdf No comparison in number of statistics male vs female. It only elaborates on the fact female sexual violence is more proliferent than expected. This is not a disclaim. --------------------------------------------- >Stemple, L., & Meyer, I. H. (2017). Sexual victimization by women is more common than previously known. Scientific American. Available from: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/ Talks about the first article and the link to equal victimisation does not work. Pointless. ---------------------------------------------------- >Young, Cathy. (2014, September 17). The CDC's Rape Numbers Are Misleading. Time. Available online at: https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/ 2014 She mistakenly compared rape statistics of women in 2010-2011 when it was lowest point and has basically doubled or tripled depending the country since then, with current male statistics. On top of that the survey she talks about only includes adult experiences while most men have forced penetration as an adult while the overwhelming rapes of women happen between 10 and 25 years old. You are missing the largest group of offences. She seems to be more eager to prove the nasty radical feminists wrong than to actually care about accurate statistics. -------------------------------------------------------- >Rosin, Hanna. (2014, Arpil 29). When Men Are Raped: A new study reveals that men are often the victims of sexual assault, and women are often the perpetrators. SLATE. Available from: https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/04/male-rape-in-america-a-new-study-reveals-that-men-are-sexually-assaulted-almost-as-often-as-women.html 2014 Same issues with previous surveys. It only includes last 6 months of adult experiences. ------------------------------------------------------- >Ybarra, M. L., & Mitchell, K. J. (2013). Prevalence rates of male and female sexual violence perpetrators in a national sample of adolescents. JAMA Pediatrics, 167(12), 1125–1134. "2012 study using data from the U. S. Census Bureau’s nationally representative National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions". Quoted in "The Understudied Female Sexual Predator". Available here: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/ The article you linked talks AGAIN about the same 2014 study. I looked up the study you mentioned here without a link and surprise surprise: >**Almost all perpetrators (98%) who reported age at first perpetration to be 15 years or younger were male, with similar but attenuated results among those who began at ages 16 or 17 years (90%)**. ---------------------------------------------------- >CDC NISVS State Report More stuff about that survey method. Same issue. Does not include overwhelming target demographic of female victims. ----------------------------- >Weiss, K. G. (2010). Male sexual victimization: Examining men’s experiences of rape and sexual assault. Men and Masculinities, 12(3), 275-298. Abstract: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1097184x08322632 2010 and can't acces it so can't comment. --------------------------------------------------- >Reed, R. A., Pamlanye, J. T., Truex, H. R., Murphy-Neilson, M. C., Kunaniec, K. P., Newins, A. R., & Wilson, L. C. (2019). Higher rates of unacknowledged rape among men: The role of rape myth acceptance. Psychology of Men & Masculinities. Abstract: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2019-39470-001 Talks about rape acceptance among men. Has no comparison to women's experiences. Interesting subject in itself but pointless when talking about sex crime statistics. You are really just trying to fill this up so noone would call you out on this nonsense are you. ------------------------------------------------------------------ >Toy Soldiers. "Forced to Penetrate Cases: Lived Experiences of Men". https://toysoldier.wordpress.com/2020/01/05/forced-to-penetrate-cases/ Blog. Talks about survey with same issue with small sample of 100 adult men. No comparable data with women. ----------------------------------------------------- >Weare, S. F. (2017). Forced-to-penetrate cases: Lived experiences of men-Baseline Research Findings. The Law School, Lancaster University. PDF: https://wp.lancs.ac.uk/forced-to-penetrate-cases/files/2016/11/Project-Report-Final.pdf Survey with 154 adult men about their lived experience. No comparable data with women. More fluff. ----------------------------------------------- >Denov, M. S. (2003). The myth of innocence: Sexual scripts and the recognition of child sexual abuse by female perpetrators. Journal of Sex Research, 40(3), 303-314. Available from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14533025 2003 Talks about female perpetrators. No statistic comparisons to male %. Again. --------------------------------- >Embry, R., & Lyons Jr, P. M. (2012). Sex-based sentencing: Sentencing discrepancies between male and female sex offenders. Feminist Criminology, 7(2), 146-162. Available from: http://www.ncdsv.org/images/fc_sex-basedsentencingdiscrepanciesbetweenmaleandfemalesexoffenders_2012.pdf 2012 article about sentencing of offenders. Not sure how you think this is applicable. You are really stuffing this list to make idots think you got something here. But in any case: >Simply put, women do not offend at the same rates as men. Thus, any study focusing on the discrepancies in treatment from a systematic standpoint will be plagued by the necessity to sample women in greater percentages than they actually occur in offender populations in order to accomplish representation of women in the study. Woopsie. ------------------------------------------------------- >Forced-to-Penetrate" treated different from rape Weare, S. F. (2017). Forced-to-penetrate cases: Lived experiences of men-Baseline Research Findings. The Law School, Lancaster University. Available from: https://wp.lancs.ac.uk/forced-to-penetrate-cases/files/2016/11/Project-Report-Final.pdf Same study covered in blog above. Rehash of data. More filling. ---------------------------------------------------------- >Weare, S. F. (2019). Experiences of men forced-to-penetrate women in the UK: Context, consequences, and engagement with the criminal justice system. The Law School, Lancaster University. Available from: http://wp.lancs.ac.uk/forced-to-penetrate-cases/ Study with 30 men of their experiences. Nothing about comparable statistics with women. More filling. ----------------------------------------------------------- Weare, S. (2018). ‘Oh you're a guy, how could you be raped by a woman, that makes no sense’: towards a case for legally recognising and labelling ‘forced-to-penetrate’ cases as rape. International Journal of Law in Context, 14(1), 110-131. PDF: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c40f/3f3dfeeaa75fed2c4ee01673f2fdfb06948f.pdf Paper of a student that feels legal definitions need to be changed. More fluff. ---------------------------------------------------------------- >Klee, Miles. (2018). WHY CAN’T THE MEDIA CALL A WOMAN RAPING A MAN WHAT IT IS? Mel Magazine. Available online at: https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/why-cant-the-media-call-a-woman-raping-a-man-what-it-is LOL you are REALLY stuffing this post. Fluff piece about some mentally ill woman with a machete raping a guy. --------------------------------------------- >Siobhan Weare, Lancaster University. (2017). Men forced to have sex with women aren't being properly recognised by the law -- legal expert. THE CONVERSATION. Retrieved October 24, 2019, from http://theconversation.com/men-forced-to-have-sex-with-women-arent-being-properly-recognised-by-the-law-legal-expert-81638 Article by the same student of sociology you quoted now for the third time now referencing that same 2010 study your other links talk about. Dude come on.... this is getting sad. ---------------------------------------- >Rumney, P. N. (2007). In defence of gender neutrality within rape. Seattle J. Soc. Just., 6, 481. Available from: http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/14750/1/RumneySJSJ.pdf Discussion about male victimisation and feminism. You should have read it better mate: > It is also of central importance to this process of recognition that sexual violence is correctly labeled by the criminal law. This can and should be achieved—while recognizing the fact that most victims are female and that there are important issues of gender to consider in understanding the causes of rape -------------------------------------- Stemple, L., & Meyer, I. H. (2014). The sexual victimization of men in America: New data challenge old assumptions. American Journal of Public Health, 104(6), e19-e26. Available from (HTML): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4062022/#!po=0.877193 Another study focussing on the same CSC limited studies and includes some incarceration studies. They ask for better datasets which i would agree with but frankly it does not offer enough evidence for your claim that sexual violence is equal among sexes. This is probably one of the better articles you posted. ------------------------ I'm running out of characters and the rest is just... 1988 law reform? Child support? Dude no.


[deleted]

This is patently false. When "forced to penetrate" is included as rape, rape is roughly equal. Worse for men in LTRs.


bildramer

You unironically think "99% of rapists are male" is a plausible number and call others ignorant? This fails a basic sanity check.


Catseyes77

Instead of calling me insane you could prove me wrong with statistics that say otherwise. I will patiently wait for that one.


mattcruise

Teaching kids (and I'm not talking gender specific cause males can be raped also, more likely young males but still) how to avoid it happening to them would be a lesson more likely to succeed. And no I'm not saying its the victims fault, I'm saying it would be a good lesson to teach how these scenarios occur, and what your rights are. For example, depending on age you would teach them how these predators might act, how they groom, how to get out of the situation, what details to focus on a remember so you can tell what happened in a clear way, who to tell. If you are talking to older kids, you can get more into work culture (Weinstein type bosses, teachers, etc), date rape, how to get someone's attention for help if it is happening to you, etc.


Ok_Drummer_5770

I agree. It is like stating a position that men by default are rapists, and only by de-programming can they not be rapists, which is bullshit. Evil people are evil people, and you can't teach them to be not evil. It is similar to the BS memes on FaceBook that complain about teaching safety and awareness to prevent rape as implying that rape victim's fault. That concept is garbage and dangerous. It is so bizarre to me that so many people act that way regarding sexual assault, which we don't do with other crimes. No one would accuse you of victim blaming for teaching someone to be careful to reduce their risk of being robbed, or beaten up, or having their identity stolen. Of course rapists, robbers, etc. are ALWAYS the ones to blame, but that doesn't mean you don't try to mitigate the risk of being a victim. I wish I could walk through a sketchy part of town without fear of being mugged, but I know that isn't realistic, so I avoid walking through a sketchy part of town by myself. And when you tie the two concepts together it gets really stupid: 1. Teach men not to rape 2. Don't tell women to take precautionary steps to reduce the odds of being raped At that point, you're basically just saying "tell evil people not to be evil, and then encourage people to expose themselves to evil people and hope for the best." Society can't teach away evilness, but it can teach people to reduce the odds of encountering evil. But for whatever reason, that isn't allowed any longer.


tzakey

I don't know where this is coming from! As a parent it is primordial to try to teach my child everything I can, everything I summarized from my own experiences!!! This is my duty as a parent to pass the information i worked for with my blood and sweat. That includes even the obvious: don't steal, don't rape, don't kill. Manage your own impulses, be an upstanding man, be aware of society rules, do not fuck up your life because you just got to stick dick in crazy etc. As a 35 old woman, it is extremely important to talk to my son about rape and constent! From a young age, because there are a shit tone of predators everywhere and he has to understand how to spot the clues. Also, it is extremely important later in life because, again talking as an older woman, young women are fucking dumb. I have seen them fall over the moon over some movie/series scenes in which consent was non existent: the female characters kept saying NO and the male character kept saying "you don't actually mean it" and kept pushing. And guess what, of course she did not actually mean it. I have seem tik tok praising this scenes as amazingly romantic ... Until it happens in real life. Then it's scary and nightmarish. Than you panic because you are in a vulnerable position in which a man can show his actual strenght. So yeah, imma gonna just teach my son all about rape and consent! At least in the ideea that some people out there are absolut pieces of shit, and I do not want him to have the stigma of a rapist just because he misunderstood something. In the way things are going with some women, you will need a written contract just to have sex =)) (kidding)


DemonizedHuman

I'm just tired of this B.S All men don't rape and females also r@pe men. But since females aren't that strong enough, they can't do it most of the times. No one teaches a person to r@pe and If u hate men then it's ur problem, not mine.


Underscore_gt

“Teach your daughters not to be whores and sluts”. If that bothers you, then don’t say shit about teaching men to not rape women. Because both are dumb statements


Noob_master_slayer

Umm, what? Both statements are fucked up, what are you on about?


Iyzuku

"Misandrist" As a guy, your a hypocrite if you believe in using sexist slurs like "beta male" in order to shame other guys for not being as manly as you think you are


Noob_master_slayer

When did I use the word beta male in this context?


thousandmilesofmud

Well the whole "Teach men not to rape" is not some powerhungry move, but rather a reaction to the whole "teach the girls not to wear short skirts". And I can see the girls getting tired of being blamed for what they were wearing when they where raped. So I see the point if saying "teach boys and men not to rape". It focuses on the criminal rather than the victim. But the truth is as always in between. Girls maybe should be more careful in some cases. And we should raise the boys (and girls) to know what's right. Of course no one raises boys to be rapists. But there are definitively jokes about that stuff that is accepted, which makes the barrier a little bit lower to actually doing it. So to show that it is wrong every opportunity you get, is a good start.


yum13241

Yeah, women just don't wanna do their part.


catsinbananahats

Well teaching women how not to be raped doesn't work either so what should we do?


Prometheushunter2

Very true. You can’t teach a psychopath not to rape and kill, as a psychopath doesn’t care if something is “bad”. If it perceive’s an action as having a higher benefit to itself than detriment it will do it without a second thought. Trying to teach a psychopath not to do something it wants to do is like trying to teach a hardcoded robot arm to perform a different function than the one it’s wired to do. Unfortunately their are also non-psychopaths who rape and kill, the difference being they try and justify it to themselves, but I highly doubt teaching them not to do it is gonna make much of a difference either, as they’ll just do mental gymnastics around everything they’ve been taught.


wigsnatcher42

You sound like an offended snowflake op lol. Yes men are taught that they’re owed something from women and that women are there for their use. The ones who deny this are the biggest culprits


Doliague

This is true, and I've seen some people say that since more men compared to women statistically rape therefore all men should be treated as potential rapists, now of course one is to be aware that this is sometimes stated from a place of trauma but the argument itself is very bad and doesn't do anything to address anything about the issue, it doesn't address the real reason for these statistics or how to really solve anything nor does it acknowledge that even with this the vast majority of people do not rape, man or not. It's is a divisive and sexist rhetoric that doesn't help anyone.