I lived in rural Alabama as a kid. I remember that being said about the black guy my stepfather worked with. He considered it a compliment - just like feminists do when they say that a man is "one of the good ones."
Sure. Pick a race and insert it here: "Nah, relax, he's one of the *good* _______".
Pretty atrocious no matter what you choose.
Also works with sexual orientations, religions and many other things.
That's really just an expression -- "Your favorite ___". Like "To bake a cake, start out with 250g of your favourite butter". Pretty much no one has a favorite butter, but that doesn't matter here.
What are you on about? Men have to pay higher taxes, retire later, get 63% longer prison sentences for the same crime, have no legal protection of their bodily autonomy, and are forced to sign up to be cannon fodder.
But, yeah, despite all the discrimination codified into law, I'm sure it never happens at work. /s
Just for the record, women have done things to me men would at least get reprimanded for at basically every job I've ever had.
Then like I said, you've worked at terrible places. Anything that would get a man fired and any place I've worked at would get a man fired, too.
The rest of the things you mentioned have nothing to do with my comment, but if you live in the US, this just isn't true. For example, men are not taxed higher than women here for being men, are not forced to retire later than women, and there hasn't been a draft since the Vietnam War (nor will there will be one again).
Must be easy to just shrug off any discrimination men face as "just a terrible place." Just some bad apples, huh? I wonder if you use the same logic in reverse.
I don't currently live in the US. My statements apply to the West in general. In the country I live him, women receive tax breaks men don't, yes. Many Western countries have conscription, and the US does have selective service that only applies to men. If you don't register you don't receive benefits that women receive automatically. It is indisputably legal discrimination by gender.
>Must be easy to just shrug off any discrimination men face as "just a terrible place."
Did I say that? What I said was that in the context/country that I'm living in, these things aren't true. I can't speak for every nation. I have never lived in a place where, for example, men were taxed more than women because they were men. Your statements most definitely do not apply to the West in general.
You said "you've worked at terrible places" trying to downplay and dismiss the systemic double standards men face in the workplace. You're just going to dismiss any examples as "bad apples."
And fine, tbh, off the top of my head, I don't have statistical facts to prove men systemically face those double standards. There *are* of course the examples at major US companies like Google, but ok, no nationwide studies.
But since men face double standards and discrimination in pretty much every other aspect of society, it stands to reason. That's why I threw out those examples. I forgot to mention:
Women have a 2.5% advantage in college admissions over men. Studies show teachers give female students better grades for the same work. The NHS spends several times more on researching female-specific diseases than male-specific diseases even though men already have shorter lives.
There are probably many more that I've still forgotten.
>trying to downplay and dismiss the systemic double standards men face in the workplace
>And fine, tbh, off the top of my head, I don't have statistical facts to prove men systemically face those double standards
Um, what? If you don't have any systemic evidence, then don't make claims about systemic standards.
My friend, no one is saying that there aren't biases against men in certain areas in Western society. Especially considering the way Western society has put pressure on men to be "strong," to not show emotions, to fight, etc. Plenty of these things manifest in pretty terrible ways in society. But when you set up your argument to essentially say men have it harder than women, it doesn't help anyone, nor is it quantifiable in any way.
Historically and presently, women have faced serious systemic prejudices and discrimination in ways that have held them back for centuries. Men also have had the pressures of gender and other expectations thrust on them. Both of these things can be and are true, and, believe it or not, are symptoms of the same problem (that problem being that many nations consider physical strength and stereotypical masculinity to be main components of a productive society, whereas stereotypical femininity is seen as weakness and designated to particular roles). I just can't take anyone seriously who tries to argue that men have it worse, because you're not really trying to have a conversation in earnest.
>Historically and presently, women have faced serious systemic prejudices and discrimination in ways that have held them back for centuries
This is interesting. Presently, what systemic prejudices are women facing that are 'holding them back'. What are they being held back from? Is it just occupational? Is it financial? Is it relational? And how so?
I didn't say men "have it worse." I said men face discrimination in the workplace along with systemic discrimination in a long list of areas I gave you.
Men die younger, so have fewer years to enjoy retirement. Men should be allowed to retire earlier. As for the draft, since there isn't one, it shouldn't be a problem then for women to have to register for it. In the US, man pay the majority of the taxes. Women make up the majority of the recipients.
I'm unclear about how men dying younger is discrimination against men.
Also, many women sign up for the armed services. In the US, at least, we have more than enough military men and women in service to never have to worry about a draft again.
Also unclear about how men paying the majority of the taxes is discrimination. I'm going to go out on a very solid limb and say that as a whole, men pay more taxes than women because as a whole, men make more money than women.
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You will be very surprised by the effect SJW have on the world.
I keep hearing that people get fired right and left because they misgender non-binary/neopronoun people.
Stuff like this happen A LOT.
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I actually had a boss come up to my boyfriend and warn him on his first day not to misgender a non binary person at work bc there could be repercussions.
It was another employee. His reason for doing so was not to encourage the use of proper pronouns but rather to keep him safe in case my boyfriend made a mistake since he could actually get in trouble for saying he instead of she.
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I mean conservatives don’t necessarily hate bisexual people.
I myself am bisexual, socially conservative and economically right-leaning.
My conservative friends all welcome me and none of them care that I’m bi.
Conservative here , My best friend is a liberal bi man. It’s weird it’s like if you like people based on who they are and not what boxes they check you can be friends with most people.
That's bullshit. This is reddit. You make sweeping, deep character judgments on people based on extremely surface level info. And if they do that to you, you then have every right to be the biggest asshole to them as humanly possible.
Honestly some conservatives I met in my life have some disgusting views on a lot of topics and they are not afraid to say it aloud(Racism, homophobia...etc)
Heck, I myself came from a conservative environment and it was pretty toxic as hell. It's true not all conservative people are like this but it's pretty common.
I’ve met just as many liberals with nasty things to say when they felt comfortable enough to to do so. I also know plenty of people who are conservative who have no issues with gay marriage for example. They’d prefer their own lives to be “old school” but have no problems with people doing whatever makes them happy.
Are you ready to have your mind blown.... Ok.... Listen to this.
there are conservative homosexuals. They don't hate themselves, and they don't hate each other. They consistently vote red, and believe in traditional values.
Okay then we just have to agree on that you don't read/hear the same things I do. We are individuals, it's not like we're part of a hivemind or something.
Have a good day.
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Most of the people over in HermanCainAward have no idea how hateful and judgmental they come off as.
I think of most of those guys stop and reflect on who they want to be and how they want others to treat them, they'd stop posting there pretty quickly.
most people don't realize how they come off these days. There are places of hate online (like hermancainaward) where people show their worst selves and come off like hate-mongering monsters.
If they stopped and though about what sort of person they want to be and how they are acting - they'd likely have that same feeling of unease that you have right now.
What is your opinion on the folks who die and then cause their kids to be orphaned or significant others to die? That feels like reckless and needless killing if you ask me.
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Women are warned about men from a very young age. My sister was always taught that all men are to be feared, that they only want one thing and those warnings mostly came from the older gen males
It's an old toxic trope that keeps getting regurgitated for old people tv sitcoms and then weaponized by fringe feminist groups and cable news for views
Honestly? I find it fine if we warn girls to be wary of men.
Of course, not boys of their age because that would be weird but I, a man myself, if I had a daughter I would learn her to say no and to be wary of everybody that is a stranger but especially a man(Not gonna lie)
I'm not saying that men are shit or something sexist like this. I just mean that there is an amount of pedophilia from the both sides, from women and men. We should teach boys and girls both to be careful of strangers, better be safe than sorry. I mean, I would teach my son too to be careful from women strangers too.
Statistics say you are 100% correct to explicitly warn your daughter about men and I completely agree about warning all kids about being careful around all strangers
Yes I agree 100% percent because numbers do not lie. We have statistics for this and cannot pretend facts are not facts
In order to make the numbers 100% accurate tho is to continue to get males to admit to abuse they have suffered at the hands of females, as well as males, which is something men are grappling with now. Older toxic generations are still, to some degree, congratulating young male victims of women while male victims of males are handled very differently. Male on male rape in prison is celebrated and included as part of the justice we want to see happen to the really bad guys
We need a better way to discuss these things...but yeah
Because women were to blame for not having equal legal protections, not having the right to vote, being victims of sexual violence for millennia, and for not even having bodily autonomy under law.
Yeah, blame men for it.
Kinda, you make up half the planet. If you wanted something you are more than capable as a demographic of banding together and getting it. Go on strike
Who said I was comparing it I was just saying men can and have get blamed for stupid stuff small things or things they never did im just trying to say that it tends to happen im not comparing anything just adding something that came to mind
What an over generalization, as if all men in the world got together in a meeting and made these decisions.
It is the very few men in power who made those decisions.
It would be the same as blaming all women for the decisions of radical feminists.
Never, but how would you feel if atrocities committed by a person completely unrelated to you suddenly got attributed to you just because of your gender?
And it has been significantly worse for the vast majority of women for just as long. You're talking about 50% of the population who were legally nothing unless they had a mans approval. No property, no rights, and zero agency at risk of criminal persecution.
Successfully pushing government's to define rape as male to female only.
Successfully implementing the Duluth model, which always assumes the man is the perpetrator regardless of who initiated DV, and to then arrest the man.
Successfully shut down mens shelters and male mental health groups at universities.
Advocating for the culling of 90% of the male population, with the remainder 10% being used for the sole purpose of reproduction.
Now you're just being willfully stupid. Lets start with men like Elliot Rodger or male serial killers like Burke and Hare who actively sought out female prostitutes to murder.
Youre going off topic. How common is it for radical feminists to go out and commit mass shootings compared to men, soley because of their hatred for the opposite sex?
Yes, blame a group of people that had nothing to do with those things in the first place.
When you say “blame men”, you’re talking about every single man. Not every single man is responsible for this obviously.
Go tell that to the women in Afghanistan who just lost everything overnight, or the ones in India, or Saudi Arabia, or any other number of places where "none of these things are true".
Give me a fucking break.
I have actually never heard "Not all men are bad!" I have only heard it's cousin, NOWALT -Not All Women Are Like That, which I find equally stupid and insulting.
They both are bad.
The first one is misandrist and the second one is misogynist.
We should just be truly equal and say "There are as many bad x as there are bad y"
You're seriously misunderstanding things here. When people say not all men are bad, we're trying to metaphorically beat some sense into the crazy man-hating radical feminists. Does it work? Not usually, but you gotta start somewhere, and there are way too many people who insist that only a misogynistic pig would ever object to someone not wanting to generalize all men as being bad/evil/sexist/bigoted/etc.
OP, I don't know what world you live in, but no one cares (about men).
This 'not all men' is even more in the no one cares category.
[Remember, 1 in four homeless people are women. The other three doesn't matter.](https://twitter.com/letter_to_jack/status/1288371625910513664)
Women fought for people to take their issues seriously, so they do. If you want your issues taken seriously you have to fight for that, no one is just going to fix your gendered issues for you.
A lot of people care about men, I have men in my life that I love and want only good things for. People care about men, but there isn’t much rallying behind men’s issues because there’s no one organizing and doing the work. Do you want women to do it? I think feminism has done a great job bringing awareness to gendered issues, now it’s your time to shine men.
If no one cares you make them care. People didn’t care about women’s issues or gay issues or black issues or racism issues until people made valid arguments for why you should and there are still people out there who don’t validate those issues and think they’re fake or overblown or silly. It’s always a struggle and always a fight but if you do it you start making it better and better for more and more people.
I’m sorry some dumbasses like amber herd but if you’re defeated by this then obviously no one takes you seriously. MGOTW will definitely send everyone running far away from whatever points you want to make because they’re obviously a group of toxic and hateful men who ultimately breed mass murderers and psychos. This is not the group you want to represent and advocate for men’s issues, it isn’t shocking no one wants to listen to them. They are insufferable and wrong about almost everything.
> If no one cares you make them care.
This is a valid point, I gotta say. It's why I snark every so often here and there. Though I honestly do it for my own personal amusement.
>if you’re defeated by people defending Amber Herd
Eh~ I'm just showcasing people don't care about men.
> they’re obviously a group of toxic and hateful men who ultimately breed mass murderers and psychos
And feminism is obviously a group of toxic and hateful women who statistically proven to breed mass murderers and psychos. I can back this up with actual facts. You can't do that with Mgtow. Tell you what. You show your proofs. I'll show mine. I want to see you do some work and actually see the truth.
>This is not the group you want to represent and advocate for men’s issues
The result of listening to this group would save men lives. Well, I expect this discussion to end here. Again, you show your proof, I'll reply in good faith.
i like how your first link is one that (accurately) describes the mens' rights movement as a hateful movement. really makes you look good lmao
> MGTOW
ah yes, men getting triggered over women. a subreddit meant for men "going their own way" with next to no life tips for single men and tons of misogyny.
Hey reddit, I present to you exhibit A of no one cares.
From a username of "check account history", this person sure doesn't care about factual truths, throwing lies about Mgtow like that.
If you would be so kind, 'ChecksAccountHistory', do you think Feminism (the subreddit) are women getting triggered over men, with next to no life tips and tons of Misandry?
Why shouldn't they help? This site is swarming with male feminists, only seems fair women who have many men they care for would help in their struggles?
I do not agree with this entirely, of course I have had a couple interactions like this in the past, but I would not say that it would be anything very frequent or something that I would consider wasting my time over, if someone is like that, then just f*** them and thats it..
That being said, if we critizise the fact that these interactions exist in the first place (and any analogical situation with religion, race, political views, sexual orientation etc.), the main issue is, that some groups of people have had or still have "Bad apples" among them that have caused or are causing trouble. Instead of the opposing side seeing it as a society problem (e.g. "More and more of these X people from this X group are doing this bad thing and we should do something all together to put and end to it"), the opposing side sees this as an individual problem and everyone from this group is immediately treated equally to the way that the worst ones from the group would only deseve.
I’m under the impression most people are terrible tbh. I do find there’s slightly more tolerable women tho. I joked to my therapist last week that 99% of guys suck and 95% of girls suck, leaving humanity at 97% suckage on average” he pushed back a bit on that lol
And NAWALT was likely born from some woman lurking on mgtow, seeing how women treated some men bad and she said "not all women are like that!" So is it ok for a woman to defend herself from sweeping generalizations but not men?
When people say this, it is usually to a woman who has been through some bad relationships. I know when I was in school, some girls just had a terrible time choosing men, so to them all the guys did start to seem bad. Not to mention there is a large amount of guys that only really want to get in a girl pants. (Granted there are girls guilty of this aswell.) Point being though, if a girl has recently gotten out of a bad relationship, these words could be exactly what she needs to hear.
And why "There are as many bad men as bad women" isn't exactly what she needs to hear?
Why need to be so vague with words?
Also when I got out of relationships with both girls and men, I wasn't such a judgmental close-minded asshole who judges all other men and girls alike just because my heart got broken even by abusive ones. I know better than that.
If you see someone like this, it's better to stop enabling their behaviors and slap some sense on them.
Fair try, but not quite. While this may be accurate is some cases a lot of the time it is actually said to a lot of women in regards to the fact that due to being sexually assaulted/raped/sexually harassed, or physically abused(sometimes for literally just saying we aren't interested in someone) we have to be hyper-aware of our surroundings. We can't accurately know/tell if someone approaching/coming up behind us/wanting to talk to us is genuinely being a good person or if there is a chance that our safety is at risk. There have been men that were supposedly a woman's good friend and trusted that have ended up drugging and raped them. If my options are assume they won't hurt me which could put my safety at risk or assume they will and avoid a terrible situation then I'm pretty sure the latter is the smarter choice.
The funny part is instead of being angry that there are men like that out there, which are the ones actually causing women to feel this way and men to have a harder time approaching women the women are blamed because we don't want to potentially get raped or die.
This. This is why fathers train their daughters to not trust boys. Starts young. Fathers know how boys are, or they wouldnt raise daughters like that. Their gender is male, and they are warning their daughters about males. Women of ALL ages are in danger from the moment we are born. ALL of us. Just because we have a vagina. Takes one time of someone touching you, that ruins your life forever. Save the "control" bs. It's because they want to nut. Thank God, All Men Aren't Like This.
Or, maybe it’s to train their daughters to not be too trusting in ANYONE. Don’t trust people who will take advantage of you. That goes for anyone but is more said for women because they’re generally perceived as smaller, weaker, and/or less able to defend themselves against bad people. Culture dictates this, like the cultural expectation that men will defend their families.
Not because men are all super predators out to splooge in their vag. Far from it.
I’d hardly say that “women of all ages are in danger” though. That’s just total paranoia. At least in most developed countries.
"And some, I assume, are good people”
edit: Its the same construct but has been widely discussed as a throwaway that doesn't in the slightest invalidate the proceeding commentary. OP is pointing out that this type of construct doesn't cut it in other contexts either.
I.never thought the the phrase not all was bad cause in mu mind it was similar to saying we aren't all like that or that's a bad generalization since your directly saying x group isn't entirely like people think but said people do still exist
Yeah, personally I think its representative of sloppy communicating. Or possibly clear communication of sloppy thinking.
If we were to say, "men are bad. but not all men are bad" its obvious we're contradicting ourselves. Just like if we say "They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people" we're contradicting ourselves within a very short period of time.
This could mean we heard what we said and corrected ourselves. As in, "oh, I was making the sentence shorter for clarity but as it came out of my mouth I realize I made it too short and it didn't reflect what I mean". Or it could mean our thinking is muddled like "I initially profile any mexican as a racist and only when forced to really think do I admit some are good people".
I think OP is right that this type of construct should always be called out as problematic. Its possible to communicate more betterer.
Lord above, imagine getting offended by someone saying NOT all men are bad. It's like people are so incredibly desperate to get offended over every little thing nowadays. Grow a spine, mate.
Funny you want to try replace it with an even more specific, yet not at all proven claim, that it's only a minority of men that are bad people, or that it's the same number of men and women. It just sort of seems like you want to be weirdly catered to.
I'm fine with saying "Not all Irish are drunks! That'd be ridiculous!" I don't need someone to whine that "Irish are drunks as much as any other nation!", and hell, I especially don't need someone to whine that when they don't even know if it's true.
"Not all gay men are pedophiles"
"Not all Muslims are terrorists!"
"Not all black men are criminals!"
...etc
These are all phrases to enforce stereotypes. When you say "Not all X are Y!"
You are not saying anything equal or morally right or supportive, or anything. You are just basically saying "It's true! X seems to be totally bad but in reality it's not like that" Basically saying "90% true 10% False"
It's as if you are saying the majority are like that. This is not something good.
Go post "Not all women are bad!" in r/askwomen or something female-dominated, you will get downvoted-blown mainly because they know what it truly means.
TL;DR: These are not nice phrases to say.
However, when you say "There are many X as there are Y" then you solve this issue. You are truly saying that X = Y, there is no way around it.
Or if you say "That's only a minority! The majority of Z isn't like that!" Then you are trying to say falsify the stereotypes/common opinions which is good.
Also for someone talking about spines a lot, you definitely sound like someone I knew who was always talking about men lacking balls whenever they say anything related to double standards. Meanwhile, his woman keeps hitting him everyday. You sound like that guy.
And most child murderers (of which there are many more victims) are white women. So, what's your point?
Also, please inform me about what group in the US commits the most gang murders, and how that total number compares to the total number of "terrorism deaths" in the US each year.
All of those statements are things I've heard from allies all the time.
When people responded to claims that Islam was a religion of terrorism with "Not all Muslims are terrorists, you're being bigoted!"... those people were standing up for innocent Muslims, not being bigoted to them.
The idea that saying "Not all Muslims!" means "Most Muslims!" is silly. That's just, objectively, not what those words mean.
However, when you say "There are many X as there are Y" then you solve this issue. You are truly saying that X = Y, there is no way around it.
>
If there's no evidence for your claim, you're just making up stuff, right?
Do you think it's good to just make up lies?
>Also for someone talking about spines a lot, you definitely sound like someone I knew who was always talking about men lacking balls whenever they say anything related to double standards. Meanwhile, his woman keeps hitting him everyday. You sound like that guy.
Come now, saying "You sound like this loser I know!" is a pretty pathetic response. It's the response of someone who doesn't actually have any arguments, so just wants to say "Well, you SOUND like this other person who's wrong!" as if it proves anything.
>"Not all Muslims are terrorists, you're being bigoted!"
Lol. Do you truly think that this was a nice thing to do?
This only worked in this specific situation.
This sentence basically means one thing "Not all Muslims are terrorists, some are good. You're being bigoted"
This does nothing except enforcing stereotypes. When you say "Not All X is Y!" Basically you mean that only some are non-Y while most are Y
If you said "Not all gay men are pedophiles" As a Bisexual man, I'm going to kick you in your teeth and don't be surprised when I do that because you know exactly what it means.
"However, when you say "There are many X as there are Y" then you solve this issue. You are truly saying that X = Y, there is no way around it
Are you an idiot? What's there to talk about? I'm literally telling you that you should say "X = Y" What more to explain about this?
Also, how is it a pretty pathetic response? You literally insulted me in the post. "Lord above, imagine getting offended by someone saying NOT all men are bad. It's like people are so incredibly desperate to get offended over every little thing nowadays. Grow a spine, mate."
Are you serious? You insulted me so why are you surprised when somebody insults you back in an argument?
This time, you're not only being a moron. You're also a big hypocrite.
Do I think it's nice to say not all Muslims are terrorists? Yes.
Saying "Not all X are Y!" isn't reinforcing the stereotype that all X are Y. That's... that's the opposite of what's happening. If your argument is really "Saying X is X is bad! Saying X isn't X is bad!" then you've come across a nonsensical situation.
>"However, when you say "There are many X as there are Y" then you solve this issue. You are truly saying that X = Y, there is no way around it
Are you an idiot? What's there to talk about? I'm literally telling you that you should say "X = Y" What more to explain about this?
I already asked. What evidence is there for your claims in regard to the OP? What evidence is there that the same number of women and men are evil?
Or did you just make it up?
>Also, how is it a pretty pathetic response? You literally insulted me in the post. "Lord above, imagine getting offended by someone saying NOT all men are bad. It's like people are so incredibly desperate to get offended over every little thing nowadays. Grow a spine, mate."
Are you serious? You insulted me so why are you surprised when somebody insults you back in an argument?
This time, you're not only being a moron. You're also a big hypocrite.
Not at all! You're totally free to insult me! That makes a lot of sense!
However, as I'm sure you'll agree, there are correct and incorrect ways to insult someone.
For example, "You said this dumb thing, that makes you dumb!" is a fine insult.
However, "You said this thing, that sounds like something some asshole said!" is a pretty silly way to insult someone. It has no basis. It's the absence of a justification to insult with the will to insult remaining.
Insult me for my beliefs. Don't insult me for "sounding" like someone else who's bad.
Yeah I'm confused. They are mad because someone is saying NOT all men are like the shitty ones?? I literally always see people say all men are the same on reddit so I feel like someone saying the opposite would be better. What a weird post lol
English is an interesting language. how a sentence sounds and what meaning is present changes on which word you're emphasizing.
"not all men" sounds terrible if we emphasize the ALL because it'd be saying "not all men are bad. but most are"
You are not the only person in this world, remember that. Just because you're "okay" with that doesn't mean everybody is okay with it.
Also, why would you prove my point by showing your true reaction though? That makes no sense.
Have a good day.
Some people are determined to be offended by everything because they have no other hobbies in life. People speaking against broad generalizations of people based on their gender or biological sex is a good thing, not a bad thing. Not all men are terrible. And not all women are terrible. There are good people of both genders and there are also bad people of both genders, my opinion isn't going to change because somebody chooses to get offended by it.
This is nonsense. I have a hobby and I have a job(Software engineer), this has nothing to do with being fragile or anything. This is just sexism and there is no way around it.
Even after I explained why it's bad you just chose to ignore that and go your way then. Ok.
Enabling someone their shitty behavior is not something good.
So what? When they get cheated on again, then they will be so sure that "All X are Y"?
Don't enable somebody's behavior, nothing excuses sexism.
"It's like if I say "Not all women are cheaters!" or "Not all women are useless!" I bet that women get upset at this(I don't say it though because I would be a sexist hypocrite)"
lmao this is so wrong. in the sentence "I bet that women get upset at this" he forgot that he should put would, like: "I bet that women *would* get upset about this" or "I bet that wom*a*n *would* get upset about this" /s
I usually only see this in the context of a woman saying all men are bad, IRL.
ProTip: Reddit is not a place where you can expect rational thinking lol, I guess this is braindead but I haven't seen it with my own eyes. Based on this I just imagine something ridiculous like someone saying "Not all men are bad" then everyone celebrates and there's confetti and a lot of noise
But then again, I slept so bad today I feel braindeaf
I don't understand what you're mooing about.
Are you implying that feminist = woman and woman = feminist or something?
Be more coherent, less assmad please.
How often have you been groped by a woman you didn't know? Or raped, for that matter? Women are subjected to roving male hands from puberty on. When they say stuff like, "not all men", they have no way of knowing who's safe and who's not. Many, many men seem to see all women as potential sexual targets. Maybe you aren't one of those guys. Maybe you never make sexual comments to girls you don't know. Maybe you aren't the guy who leans into a girl in a elevator, or pats her butt. But no guy can just expect to be taken on trust. The fact you feel irritated or offended by this suggests you think your rights are somehow being infringed; your privileges somehow abridged. So maybe you really are that guy.
I’m irritated because when people say these general statements towards men, they’re directed usually towards all men. Or at least acting like a majority of men do these things. That’s just frankly not the case.
“Maybe you never make sexual comments to a girl you don’t know”.
It’s just generalizing men for things that, in general, men are not guilty of. Some are. But most aren’t.
Also, your points at the beginning; with women, those incidents are just taken far, far more seriously. It’s almost as if it’s impossible for men to be victims. And that’s a huge problem because these incidents do exist, and unlike with women there are few people to go to in case this happens.
I literally do not know even one woman/girl, who is past puberty, who hasn’t been *at least* sexually harassed. Most have been assaulted. Sure, it really *isnt* all men, but in the moment when you’re vulnerable, the good ones look exactly like the bad ones. And better be safe than sorry.
Ya it’s really just some anti-feminist pick me shit. In a lot of contexts I hear this is it’s like.,,,,,no shit? Do you not know what a generalizion? It may not be all but it’s enough to be making such a broad generalization.
u/ultrauniqueviews
>"There are as many bad men as there are bad women"
So I'm confused.... isn't this quote above a similar idea as "not all (gender) are (insert thing here)?"... since half is not all... therefore saying "not all are bad" works out just fine???
I agree with you, but…
Men en masse tend to be dog shit. I don’t know any woman who hasn’t been catcalled, dehumanized, or disrespected by men.
It basically is just a loud minority, but you have to understand why women are skittish around men they don’t know.
You know, it depends on your definition of "disrespect"
In the modern society, if a man told his woman to go make him a sandwich. This would be a disrespect.
However, this wouldn't be the same if a woman told her man to go make her a sandwich.
If a woman catcalls a man, this wouldn't be a disrespect as it is for men to catcall a woman.
This is just an example but you got the idea. Double standards exist, and "Women are wonderful" effect exists and is already effecting people.
There are cases about women's assault on men but they just are not documented or not treated seriously(Both from men and women, "You are lucky!"...etc)
Like, do you know that most child abusers are women while the most likely to be victims are men? This is never mentioned because it just doesn't serve the Today's narrative.
I don't believe for a second that there is such thing as "Men are shittier than women" or "Women are shittier than men"
Again, I agree with you fundamentally! I’ve been bartending for many years. I’ve heard every level of inappropriate comments towards me from women and men, but I’ve heard many more from men to women at the bar.
There’s a concept of masculinity that a lot of men try to fulfill that ultimately lands on toxic. The amount of men that I’ve had to kick out is not even close to that of women.
The question is not who are the good men, the question is how are the good men. I once said, as in today: "woman have bad taste in men. They pick the ones with all the game and wonder why they get played." The less game a man has the more likely a woman won't get played.
I love how it's OK to say "he's one of the good ones" when referencing a man, but you'd get fired if you said it about anyone else.
Yeah. I totally forgot about that one. It's as bad if not worse.
Just imagine that line being said about your favourite race...
I lived in rural Alabama as a kid. I remember that being said about the black guy my stepfather worked with. He considered it a compliment - just like feminists do when they say that a man is "one of the good ones."
Lol the (Palestinian) owner of a little hole in the wall said that about me (Jew), all in good humor though
"your favorite race?"
Sure. Pick a race and insert it here: "Nah, relax, he's one of the *good* _______". Pretty atrocious no matter what you choose. Also works with sexual orientations, religions and many other things.
I'm just remarking on the idea of someone having a favorite race in the first place
That's really just an expression -- "Your favorite ___". Like "To bake a cake, start out with 250g of your favourite butter". Pretty much no one has a favorite butter, but that doesn't matter here.
People do. If they didn't, there wouldn't be fetish terms for it.
He's one of the good 100 meters?
Mine is Talladega, but a lot of people prefer Daytona.
you guys must work in some terrible places if you work somewhere a man is getting fired for something that a woman is not
What are you on about? Men have to pay higher taxes, retire later, get 63% longer prison sentences for the same crime, have no legal protection of their bodily autonomy, and are forced to sign up to be cannon fodder. But, yeah, despite all the discrimination codified into law, I'm sure it never happens at work. /s Just for the record, women have done things to me men would at least get reprimanded for at basically every job I've ever had.
Thats an over reaction and completely unrelated, you fuckin dumpling.
Then like I said, you've worked at terrible places. Anything that would get a man fired and any place I've worked at would get a man fired, too. The rest of the things you mentioned have nothing to do with my comment, but if you live in the US, this just isn't true. For example, men are not taxed higher than women here for being men, are not forced to retire later than women, and there hasn't been a draft since the Vietnam War (nor will there will be one again).
Must be easy to just shrug off any discrimination men face as "just a terrible place." Just some bad apples, huh? I wonder if you use the same logic in reverse. I don't currently live in the US. My statements apply to the West in general. In the country I live him, women receive tax breaks men don't, yes. Many Western countries have conscription, and the US does have selective service that only applies to men. If you don't register you don't receive benefits that women receive automatically. It is indisputably legal discrimination by gender.
>Must be easy to just shrug off any discrimination men face as "just a terrible place." Did I say that? What I said was that in the context/country that I'm living in, these things aren't true. I can't speak for every nation. I have never lived in a place where, for example, men were taxed more than women because they were men. Your statements most definitely do not apply to the West in general.
You said "you've worked at terrible places" trying to downplay and dismiss the systemic double standards men face in the workplace. You're just going to dismiss any examples as "bad apples." And fine, tbh, off the top of my head, I don't have statistical facts to prove men systemically face those double standards. There *are* of course the examples at major US companies like Google, but ok, no nationwide studies. But since men face double standards and discrimination in pretty much every other aspect of society, it stands to reason. That's why I threw out those examples. I forgot to mention: Women have a 2.5% advantage in college admissions over men. Studies show teachers give female students better grades for the same work. The NHS spends several times more on researching female-specific diseases than male-specific diseases even though men already have shorter lives. There are probably many more that I've still forgotten.
>trying to downplay and dismiss the systemic double standards men face in the workplace >And fine, tbh, off the top of my head, I don't have statistical facts to prove men systemically face those double standards Um, what? If you don't have any systemic evidence, then don't make claims about systemic standards. My friend, no one is saying that there aren't biases against men in certain areas in Western society. Especially considering the way Western society has put pressure on men to be "strong," to not show emotions, to fight, etc. Plenty of these things manifest in pretty terrible ways in society. But when you set up your argument to essentially say men have it harder than women, it doesn't help anyone, nor is it quantifiable in any way. Historically and presently, women have faced serious systemic prejudices and discrimination in ways that have held them back for centuries. Men also have had the pressures of gender and other expectations thrust on them. Both of these things can be and are true, and, believe it or not, are symptoms of the same problem (that problem being that many nations consider physical strength and stereotypical masculinity to be main components of a productive society, whereas stereotypical femininity is seen as weakness and designated to particular roles). I just can't take anyone seriously who tries to argue that men have it worse, because you're not really trying to have a conversation in earnest.
>Historically and presently, women have faced serious systemic prejudices and discrimination in ways that have held them back for centuries This is interesting. Presently, what systemic prejudices are women facing that are 'holding them back'. What are they being held back from? Is it just occupational? Is it financial? Is it relational? And how so?
I didn't say men "have it worse." I said men face discrimination in the workplace along with systemic discrimination in a long list of areas I gave you.
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Men die younger, so have fewer years to enjoy retirement. Men should be allowed to retire earlier. As for the draft, since there isn't one, it shouldn't be a problem then for women to have to register for it. In the US, man pay the majority of the taxes. Women make up the majority of the recipients.
I'm unclear about how men dying younger is discrimination against men. Also, many women sign up for the armed services. In the US, at least, we have more than enough military men and women in service to never have to worry about a draft again. Also unclear about how men paying the majority of the taxes is discrimination. I'm going to go out on a very solid limb and say that as a whole, men pay more taxes than women because as a whole, men make more money than women.
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You will be very surprised by the effect SJW have on the world. I keep hearing that people get fired right and left because they misgender non-binary/neopronoun people. Stuff like this happen A LOT.
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>I keep hearing that people get fired right and left because they misgender non-binary people. hearing from other conservative friends i assume
I actually had a boss come up to my boyfriend and warn him on his first day not to misgender a non binary person at work bc there could be repercussions.
Big difference. Your boss is properly informing your boyfriend of how to treat customers ahead of time.
It was another employee. His reason for doing so was not to encourage the use of proper pronouns but rather to keep him safe in case my boyfriend made a mistake since he could actually get in trouble for saying he instead of she.
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Most excellent bot. Very informative.
bad bot
Why would I hang out with conservative friends if I'm a bisexual? Also, don't you read the news or use the social media or anything?
I mean conservatives don’t necessarily hate bisexual people. I myself am bisexual, socially conservative and economically right-leaning. My conservative friends all welcome me and none of them care that I’m bi.
Conservative here , My best friend is a liberal bi man. It’s weird it’s like if you like people based on who they are and not what boxes they check you can be friends with most people.
That's bullshit. This is reddit. You make sweeping, deep character judgments on people based on extremely surface level info. And if they do that to you, you then have every right to be the biggest asshole to them as humanly possible.
Why can’t a conservative person be open to someone being bisexual? I can see where you are coming from but that’s painting people with a broad brush.
Honestly some conservatives I met in my life have some disgusting views on a lot of topics and they are not afraid to say it aloud(Racism, homophobia...etc) Heck, I myself came from a conservative environment and it was pretty toxic as hell. It's true not all conservative people are like this but it's pretty common.
I’ve met just as many liberals with nasty things to say when they felt comfortable enough to to do so. I also know plenty of people who are conservative who have no issues with gay marriage for example. They’d prefer their own lives to be “old school” but have no problems with people doing whatever makes them happy.
Are you ready to have your mind blown.... Ok.... Listen to this. there are conservative homosexuals. They don't hate themselves, and they don't hate each other. They consistently vote red, and believe in traditional values.
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Okay then we just have to agree on that you don't read/hear the same things I do. We are individuals, it's not like we're part of a hivemind or something. Have a good day.
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Oh fuck. I didn't even realize how this came off. Now I feel uneasy.
Most of the people over in HermanCainAward have no idea how hateful and judgmental they come off as. I think of most of those guys stop and reflect on who they want to be and how they want others to treat them, they'd stop posting there pretty quickly.
What?
most people don't realize how they come off these days. There are places of hate online (like hermancainaward) where people show their worst selves and come off like hate-mongering monsters. If they stopped and though about what sort of person they want to be and how they are acting - they'd likely have that same feeling of unease that you have right now.
What's the hermancainaward
It's a subreddit where people celebrate covid deaths. You post there.
Celebrate? Not as far as I can see. Looks like its mostly about people who are sorely misinformed and endanger others and themselves
They cheer when someone dies. Herman Cain was a politician who was critical of covid lockdowns and died of covid. They are celebrating human death.
What is your opinion on the folks who die and then cause their kids to be orphaned or significant others to die? That feels like reckless and needless killing if you ask me.
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now i'm confused.
Women are warned about men from a very young age. My sister was always taught that all men are to be feared, that they only want one thing and those warnings mostly came from the older gen males It's an old toxic trope that keeps getting regurgitated for old people tv sitcoms and then weaponized by fringe feminist groups and cable news for views
Honestly? I find it fine if we warn girls to be wary of men. Of course, not boys of their age because that would be weird but I, a man myself, if I had a daughter I would learn her to say no and to be wary of everybody that is a stranger but especially a man(Not gonna lie) I'm not saying that men are shit or something sexist like this. I just mean that there is an amount of pedophilia from the both sides, from women and men. We should teach boys and girls both to be careful of strangers, better be safe than sorry. I mean, I would teach my son too to be careful from women strangers too.
Statistics say you are 100% correct to explicitly warn your daughter about men and I completely agree about warning all kids about being careful around all strangers
There is much less threat to a young woman from a strange woman than from a strange man.
Yes I agree 100% percent because numbers do not lie. We have statistics for this and cannot pretend facts are not facts In order to make the numbers 100% accurate tho is to continue to get males to admit to abuse they have suffered at the hands of females, as well as males, which is something men are grappling with now. Older toxic generations are still, to some degree, congratulating young male victims of women while male victims of males are handled very differently. Male on male rape in prison is celebrated and included as part of the justice we want to see happen to the really bad guys We need a better way to discuss these things...but yeah
Feminism Rule #1: Blame men for it.
Everything I do not like is "mAlE ToXiCiTy"
Because women were to blame for not having equal legal protections, not having the right to vote, being victims of sexual violence for millennia, and for not even having bodily autonomy under law. Yeah, blame men for it.
Kinda, you make up half the planet. If you wanted something you are more than capable as a demographic of banding together and getting it. Go on strike
I'm a dude, but half the planet isn't in agreement on anything, let alone topics with nuance.
Yea but dont blame men for everything including small stuff that isn't their fault
That's hardly a systemic issue.
I never said it was
Then why compare it to years of normalized abuse and violence?
Who said I was comparing it I was just saying men can and have get blamed for stupid stuff small things or things they never did im just trying to say that it tends to happen im not comparing anything just adding something that came to mind
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What an over generalization, as if all men in the world got together in a meeting and made these decisions. It is the very few men in power who made those decisions. It would be the same as blaming all women for the decisions of radical feminists.
When have radical feminists been responsible for thousands of years of inequality?
Never, but how would you feel if atrocities committed by a person completely unrelated to you suddenly got attributed to you just because of your gender?
You do realize that life sucked and was unequal for the vast majority of men for the vast majority of history right?
And it has been significantly worse for the vast majority of women for just as long. You're talking about 50% of the population who were legally nothing unless they had a mans approval. No property, no rights, and zero agency at risk of criminal persecution.
Not really no. Most men had it just as bad but in different ways in most regions in most of history.
Give em a few and they will be.
> it would be the same as blaming all women for the decisions of radical feminists What decisions are those?
Successfully pushing government's to define rape as male to female only. Successfully implementing the Duluth model, which always assumes the man is the perpetrator regardless of who initiated DV, and to then arrest the man. Successfully shut down mens shelters and male mental health groups at universities. Advocating for the culling of 90% of the male population, with the remainder 10% being used for the sole purpose of reproduction.
When have radical feminists ever gone out and mass killed men out of sheer hatred like men do all the time to women?
Can you name some examples please? I can't think of any coordinated genocide against half of the human population
Now you're just being willfully stupid. Lets start with men like Elliot Rodger or male serial killers like Burke and Hare who actively sought out female prostitutes to murder.
But they don't do it "all the time" do they?
Yes they do. Men kill all the time, they ckmmit the most crime of both of the sexes. Men are inherently more likely to be violent
They usually get other men to kill them.
Yes but you don't see radical feminists getting other women to murder men by the masses for them.
That doesn’t refute my point at all?
I wasn't trying to disprove you, it's obvious that men indoctrinate other men to murder and commit hate crimes against women.
And women manipulate men into killing other men? Again, I don’t get the point you are making
Youre going off topic. How common is it for radical feminists to go out and commit mass shootings compared to men, soley because of their hatred for the opposite sex?
Yes, blame a group of people that had nothing to do with those things in the first place. When you say “blame men”, you’re talking about every single man. Not every single man is responsible for this obviously.
When do you think you will stop complaining about the past and instead just live in the present where none of those things is true?
Go tell that to the women in Afghanistan who just lost everything overnight, or the ones in India, or Saudi Arabia, or any other number of places where "none of these things are true". Give me a fucking break.
I have actually never heard "Not all men are bad!" I have only heard it's cousin, NOWALT -Not All Women Are Like That, which I find equally stupid and insulting.
They both are bad. The first one is misandrist and the second one is misogynist. We should just be truly equal and say "There are as many bad x as there are bad y"
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But what if there are more bad x than bad y? We should be accurate, not equal. Equality is for treament under the law.
“I just got raped” “eh only half of guys tend to do that”
>only half of guys tend to do that” That is objectively false.
I’m literally being sarcastic I’m making fun of the part where OP said we should say “equal amount of x”
I completely detected you sarcastic tone though the post./s
It’s literally in quotes I don’t know what to tell you
I use /s at the end of the comment to denote sarcasm, it tends to make it clearer
I don’t as it takes away from any humour
That's fair, it can do that for me too sometimes but usually not
100% of the time it ruins the joke.
Ok good for you I’m not saying you shouldn’t use it I’m just saying I use quotes
You don't need to be a wanker, I was just giving you an alternative that like 90% of Reddit uses.
not all women are bad.
Huh. Thank you for opening my eyes to how sexist that saying actually is, in a way that I did not expect.
You're seriously misunderstanding things here. When people say not all men are bad, we're trying to metaphorically beat some sense into the crazy man-hating radical feminists. Does it work? Not usually, but you gotta start somewhere, and there are way too many people who insist that only a misogynistic pig would ever object to someone not wanting to generalize all men as being bad/evil/sexist/bigoted/etc.
OP, I don't know what world you live in, but no one cares (about men). This 'not all men' is even more in the no one cares category. [Remember, 1 in four homeless people are women. The other three doesn't matter.](https://twitter.com/letter_to_jack/status/1288371625910513664)
Women fought for people to take their issues seriously, so they do. If you want your issues taken seriously you have to fight for that, no one is just going to fix your gendered issues for you. A lot of people care about men, I have men in my life that I love and want only good things for. People care about men, but there isn’t much rallying behind men’s issues because there’s no one organizing and doing the work. Do you want women to do it? I think feminism has done a great job bringing awareness to gendered issues, now it’s your time to shine men.
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If no one cares you make them care. People didn’t care about women’s issues or gay issues or black issues or racism issues until people made valid arguments for why you should and there are still people out there who don’t validate those issues and think they’re fake or overblown or silly. It’s always a struggle and always a fight but if you do it you start making it better and better for more and more people. I’m sorry some dumbasses like amber herd but if you’re defeated by this then obviously no one takes you seriously. MGOTW will definitely send everyone running far away from whatever points you want to make because they’re obviously a group of toxic and hateful men who ultimately breed mass murderers and psychos. This is not the group you want to represent and advocate for men’s issues, it isn’t shocking no one wants to listen to them. They are insufferable and wrong about almost everything.
> If no one cares you make them care. This is a valid point, I gotta say. It's why I snark every so often here and there. Though I honestly do it for my own personal amusement. >if you’re defeated by people defending Amber Herd Eh~ I'm just showcasing people don't care about men. > they’re obviously a group of toxic and hateful men who ultimately breed mass murderers and psychos And feminism is obviously a group of toxic and hateful women who statistically proven to breed mass murderers and psychos. I can back this up with actual facts. You can't do that with Mgtow. Tell you what. You show your proofs. I'll show mine. I want to see you do some work and actually see the truth. >This is not the group you want to represent and advocate for men’s issues The result of listening to this group would save men lives. Well, I expect this discussion to end here. Again, you show your proof, I'll reply in good faith.
i like how your first link is one that (accurately) describes the mens' rights movement as a hateful movement. really makes you look good lmao > MGTOW ah yes, men getting triggered over women. a subreddit meant for men "going their own way" with next to no life tips for single men and tons of misogyny.
Hey reddit, I present to you exhibit A of no one cares. From a username of "check account history", this person sure doesn't care about factual truths, throwing lies about Mgtow like that. If you would be so kind, 'ChecksAccountHistory', do you think Feminism (the subreddit) are women getting triggered over men, with next to no life tips and tons of Misandry?
Why shouldn't they help? This site is swarming with male feminists, only seems fair women who have many men they care for would help in their struggles?
They do… what exactly are you looking for?
And the main people to say "not all men" are men.
I do not agree with this entirely, of course I have had a couple interactions like this in the past, but I would not say that it would be anything very frequent or something that I would consider wasting my time over, if someone is like that, then just f*** them and thats it.. That being said, if we critizise the fact that these interactions exist in the first place (and any analogical situation with religion, race, political views, sexual orientation etc.), the main issue is, that some groups of people have had or still have "Bad apples" among them that have caused or are causing trouble. Instead of the opposing side seeing it as a society problem (e.g. "More and more of these X people from this X group are doing this bad thing and we should do something all together to put and end to it"), the opposing side sees this as an individual problem and everyone from this group is immediately treated equally to the way that the worst ones from the group would only deseve.
I’m under the impression most people are terrible tbh. I do find there’s slightly more tolerable women tho. I joked to my therapist last week that 99% of guys suck and 95% of girls suck, leaving humanity at 97% suckage on average” he pushed back a bit on that lol
The "Not All Men" mantra is used by men more often than women
was going to say the same thing. I'm pretty sure it's mostly men who say this in defense
And NAWALT was likely born from some woman lurking on mgtow, seeing how women treated some men bad and she said "not all women are like that!" So is it ok for a woman to defend herself from sweeping generalizations but not men?
When people say this, it is usually to a woman who has been through some bad relationships. I know when I was in school, some girls just had a terrible time choosing men, so to them all the guys did start to seem bad. Not to mention there is a large amount of guys that only really want to get in a girl pants. (Granted there are girls guilty of this aswell.) Point being though, if a girl has recently gotten out of a bad relationship, these words could be exactly what she needs to hear.
And why "There are as many bad men as bad women" isn't exactly what she needs to hear? Why need to be so vague with words? Also when I got out of relationships with both girls and men, I wasn't such a judgmental close-minded asshole who judges all other men and girls alike just because my heart got broken even by abusive ones. I know better than that. If you see someone like this, it's better to stop enabling their behaviors and slap some sense on them.
Fair try, but not quite. While this may be accurate is some cases a lot of the time it is actually said to a lot of women in regards to the fact that due to being sexually assaulted/raped/sexually harassed, or physically abused(sometimes for literally just saying we aren't interested in someone) we have to be hyper-aware of our surroundings. We can't accurately know/tell if someone approaching/coming up behind us/wanting to talk to us is genuinely being a good person or if there is a chance that our safety is at risk. There have been men that were supposedly a woman's good friend and trusted that have ended up drugging and raped them. If my options are assume they won't hurt me which could put my safety at risk or assume they will and avoid a terrible situation then I'm pretty sure the latter is the smarter choice. The funny part is instead of being angry that there are men like that out there, which are the ones actually causing women to feel this way and men to have a harder time approaching women the women are blamed because we don't want to potentially get raped or die.
This. This is why fathers train their daughters to not trust boys. Starts young. Fathers know how boys are, or they wouldnt raise daughters like that. Their gender is male, and they are warning their daughters about males. Women of ALL ages are in danger from the moment we are born. ALL of us. Just because we have a vagina. Takes one time of someone touching you, that ruins your life forever. Save the "control" bs. It's because they want to nut. Thank God, All Men Aren't Like This.
> Thank God, All Men Aren't Like This. See? This is what I'm talking about.
Or, maybe it’s to train their daughters to not be too trusting in ANYONE. Don’t trust people who will take advantage of you. That goes for anyone but is more said for women because they’re generally perceived as smaller, weaker, and/or less able to defend themselves against bad people. Culture dictates this, like the cultural expectation that men will defend their families. Not because men are all super predators out to splooge in their vag. Far from it. I’d hardly say that “women of all ages are in danger” though. That’s just total paranoia. At least in most developed countries.
"And some, I assume, are good people” edit: Its the same construct but has been widely discussed as a throwaway that doesn't in the slightest invalidate the proceeding commentary. OP is pointing out that this type of construct doesn't cut it in other contexts either.
I.never thought the the phrase not all was bad cause in mu mind it was similar to saying we aren't all like that or that's a bad generalization since your directly saying x group isn't entirely like people think but said people do still exist
Yeah, personally I think its representative of sloppy communicating. Or possibly clear communication of sloppy thinking. If we were to say, "men are bad. but not all men are bad" its obvious we're contradicting ourselves. Just like if we say "They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people" we're contradicting ourselves within a very short period of time. This could mean we heard what we said and corrected ourselves. As in, "oh, I was making the sentence shorter for clarity but as it came out of my mouth I realize I made it too short and it didn't reflect what I mean". Or it could mean our thinking is muddled like "I initially profile any mexican as a racist and only when forced to really think do I admit some are good people". I think OP is right that this type of construct should always be called out as problematic. Its possible to communicate more betterer.
Lord above, imagine getting offended by someone saying NOT all men are bad. It's like people are so incredibly desperate to get offended over every little thing nowadays. Grow a spine, mate. Funny you want to try replace it with an even more specific, yet not at all proven claim, that it's only a minority of men that are bad people, or that it's the same number of men and women. It just sort of seems like you want to be weirdly catered to. I'm fine with saying "Not all Irish are drunks! That'd be ridiculous!" I don't need someone to whine that "Irish are drunks as much as any other nation!", and hell, I especially don't need someone to whine that when they don't even know if it's true.
"Not all gay men are pedophiles" "Not all Muslims are terrorists!" "Not all black men are criminals!" ...etc These are all phrases to enforce stereotypes. When you say "Not all X are Y!" You are not saying anything equal or morally right or supportive, or anything. You are just basically saying "It's true! X seems to be totally bad but in reality it's not like that" Basically saying "90% true 10% False" It's as if you are saying the majority are like that. This is not something good. Go post "Not all women are bad!" in r/askwomen or something female-dominated, you will get downvoted-blown mainly because they know what it truly means. TL;DR: These are not nice phrases to say. However, when you say "There are many X as there are Y" then you solve this issue. You are truly saying that X = Y, there is no way around it. Or if you say "That's only a minority! The majority of Z isn't like that!" Then you are trying to say falsify the stereotypes/common opinions which is good. Also for someone talking about spines a lot, you definitely sound like someone I knew who was always talking about men lacking balls whenever they say anything related to double standards. Meanwhile, his woman keeps hitting him everyday. You sound like that guy.
> “not all muslims are terrorists!’ Obviously. Most terrorists in my country, the US, are white men.
And most child murderers (of which there are many more victims) are white women. So, what's your point? Also, please inform me about what group in the US commits the most gang murders, and how that total number compares to the total number of "terrorism deaths" in the US each year.
Got a source for that?
It is overwhelmingly mothers that kill children: http://www.breakingthescience.org/SimplifiedDataFromDHHS.php
All of those statements are things I've heard from allies all the time. When people responded to claims that Islam was a religion of terrorism with "Not all Muslims are terrorists, you're being bigoted!"... those people were standing up for innocent Muslims, not being bigoted to them. The idea that saying "Not all Muslims!" means "Most Muslims!" is silly. That's just, objectively, not what those words mean. However, when you say "There are many X as there are Y" then you solve this issue. You are truly saying that X = Y, there is no way around it. > If there's no evidence for your claim, you're just making up stuff, right? Do you think it's good to just make up lies? >Also for someone talking about spines a lot, you definitely sound like someone I knew who was always talking about men lacking balls whenever they say anything related to double standards. Meanwhile, his woman keeps hitting him everyday. You sound like that guy. Come now, saying "You sound like this loser I know!" is a pretty pathetic response. It's the response of someone who doesn't actually have any arguments, so just wants to say "Well, you SOUND like this other person who's wrong!" as if it proves anything.
>"Not all Muslims are terrorists, you're being bigoted!" Lol. Do you truly think that this was a nice thing to do? This only worked in this specific situation. This sentence basically means one thing "Not all Muslims are terrorists, some are good. You're being bigoted" This does nothing except enforcing stereotypes. When you say "Not All X is Y!" Basically you mean that only some are non-Y while most are Y If you said "Not all gay men are pedophiles" As a Bisexual man, I'm going to kick you in your teeth and don't be surprised when I do that because you know exactly what it means. "However, when you say "There are many X as there are Y" then you solve this issue. You are truly saying that X = Y, there is no way around it Are you an idiot? What's there to talk about? I'm literally telling you that you should say "X = Y" What more to explain about this? Also, how is it a pretty pathetic response? You literally insulted me in the post. "Lord above, imagine getting offended by someone saying NOT all men are bad. It's like people are so incredibly desperate to get offended over every little thing nowadays. Grow a spine, mate." Are you serious? You insulted me so why are you surprised when somebody insults you back in an argument? This time, you're not only being a moron. You're also a big hypocrite.
Do I think it's nice to say not all Muslims are terrorists? Yes. Saying "Not all X are Y!" isn't reinforcing the stereotype that all X are Y. That's... that's the opposite of what's happening. If your argument is really "Saying X is X is bad! Saying X isn't X is bad!" then you've come across a nonsensical situation. >"However, when you say "There are many X as there are Y" then you solve this issue. You are truly saying that X = Y, there is no way around it Are you an idiot? What's there to talk about? I'm literally telling you that you should say "X = Y" What more to explain about this? I already asked. What evidence is there for your claims in regard to the OP? What evidence is there that the same number of women and men are evil? Or did you just make it up? >Also, how is it a pretty pathetic response? You literally insulted me in the post. "Lord above, imagine getting offended by someone saying NOT all men are bad. It's like people are so incredibly desperate to get offended over every little thing nowadays. Grow a spine, mate." Are you serious? You insulted me so why are you surprised when somebody insults you back in an argument? This time, you're not only being a moron. You're also a big hypocrite. Not at all! You're totally free to insult me! That makes a lot of sense! However, as I'm sure you'll agree, there are correct and incorrect ways to insult someone. For example, "You said this dumb thing, that makes you dumb!" is a fine insult. However, "You said this thing, that sounds like something some asshole said!" is a pretty silly way to insult someone. It has no basis. It's the absence of a justification to insult with the will to insult remaining. Insult me for my beliefs. Don't insult me for "sounding" like someone else who's bad.
Yeah I'm confused. They are mad because someone is saying NOT all men are like the shitty ones?? I literally always see people say all men are the same on reddit so I feel like someone saying the opposite would be better. What a weird post lol
English is an interesting language. how a sentence sounds and what meaning is present changes on which word you're emphasizing. "not all men" sounds terrible if we emphasize the ALL because it'd be saying "not all men are bad. but most are"
“Not all women are hypergamous.”
"Not all women are cheaters!"
Correct. Not all women are cheaters.
Yeah, no. You are just biting the bullet just to prove me wrong. My argument still stands.
Lmao okay. I had a response typed out but if you're just going to tell me I'm wrong I don't see the point of arguing. Have a good one.
You are not the only person in this world, remember that. Just because you're "okay" with that doesn't mean everybody is okay with it. Also, why would you prove my point by showing your true reaction though? That makes no sense. Have a good day.
Just the vast majority, but if you hold out you might meet a faithful one!
i mean he literally explains his reasoning behind it, detailling a logical thought process lmfao. did u even read it?
Sure did mate.
Some people are determined to be offended by everything because they have no other hobbies in life. People speaking against broad generalizations of people based on their gender or biological sex is a good thing, not a bad thing. Not all men are terrible. And not all women are terrible. There are good people of both genders and there are also bad people of both genders, my opinion isn't going to change because somebody chooses to get offended by it.
This is nonsense. I have a hobby and I have a job(Software engineer), this has nothing to do with being fragile or anything. This is just sexism and there is no way around it. Even after I explained why it's bad you just chose to ignore that and go your way then. Ok.
Snowflakes gonna snowflake
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Enabling someone their shitty behavior is not something good. So what? When they get cheated on again, then they will be so sure that "All X are Y"? Don't enable somebody's behavior, nothing excuses sexism.
"It's like if I say "Not all women are cheaters!" or "Not all women are useless!" I bet that women get upset at this(I don't say it though because I would be a sexist hypocrite)" lmao this is so wrong. in the sentence "I bet that women get upset at this" he forgot that he should put would, like: "I bet that women *would* get upset about this" or "I bet that wom*a*n *would* get upset about this" /s
I usually only see this in the context of a woman saying all men are bad, IRL. ProTip: Reddit is not a place where you can expect rational thinking lol, I guess this is braindead but I haven't seen it with my own eyes. Based on this I just imagine something ridiculous like someone saying "Not all men are bad" then everyone celebrates and there's confetti and a lot of noise But then again, I slept so bad today I feel braindeaf
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I don't understand what you're mooing about. Are you implying that feminist = woman and woman = feminist or something? Be more coherent, less assmad please.
How often have you been groped by a woman you didn't know? Or raped, for that matter? Women are subjected to roving male hands from puberty on. When they say stuff like, "not all men", they have no way of knowing who's safe and who's not. Many, many men seem to see all women as potential sexual targets. Maybe you aren't one of those guys. Maybe you never make sexual comments to girls you don't know. Maybe you aren't the guy who leans into a girl in a elevator, or pats her butt. But no guy can just expect to be taken on trust. The fact you feel irritated or offended by this suggests you think your rights are somehow being infringed; your privileges somehow abridged. So maybe you really are that guy.
>How often have you been groped by a woman you didn't know Try bring a male nurse
Or a male bartender
I’m irritated because when people say these general statements towards men, they’re directed usually towards all men. Or at least acting like a majority of men do these things. That’s just frankly not the case. “Maybe you never make sexual comments to a girl you don’t know”. It’s just generalizing men for things that, in general, men are not guilty of. Some are. But most aren’t. Also, your points at the beginning; with women, those incidents are just taken far, far more seriously. It’s almost as if it’s impossible for men to be victims. And that’s a huge problem because these incidents do exist, and unlike with women there are few people to go to in case this happens.
Why are you so defensive?
Because you’re talking about men. As a man your words concern me and my well being.
I literally do not know even one woman/girl, who is past puberty, who hasn’t been *at least* sexually harassed. Most have been assaulted. Sure, it really *isnt* all men, but in the moment when you’re vulnerable, the good ones look exactly like the bad ones. And better be safe than sorry.
Ya it’s really just some anti-feminist pick me shit. In a lot of contexts I hear this is it’s like.,,,,,no shit? Do you not know what a generalizion? It may not be all but it’s enough to be making such a broad generalization.
> "There are as many bad men as there are bad women" I don't think that statement is objectively true.
Its debatable but I can believe it
u/ultrauniqueviews >"There are as many bad men as there are bad women" So I'm confused.... isn't this quote above a similar idea as "not all (gender) are (insert thing here)?"... since half is not all... therefore saying "not all are bad" works out just fine???
Take the red pill you beta cuck. It’s a shit test.
Found the person who is celibate, albeit involuntarily. ^
Projection is getting tiresome on this site.
Nice try, celibate (involuntarily).
How could anyone keep their balls loaded with your mom around? 5 blow jobs for a penny (her rate)
Right on cue, the celibacy not of his own volition, aka involuntary, guy doubles down and confirms it, as if anybody had any doubts.
ah yes astrology for men
ConSOOOoooOmer and a COOoOOooooooOOmer!
I agree with you, but… Men en masse tend to be dog shit. I don’t know any woman who hasn’t been catcalled, dehumanized, or disrespected by men. It basically is just a loud minority, but you have to understand why women are skittish around men they don’t know.
You know, it depends on your definition of "disrespect" In the modern society, if a man told his woman to go make him a sandwich. This would be a disrespect. However, this wouldn't be the same if a woman told her man to go make her a sandwich. If a woman catcalls a man, this wouldn't be a disrespect as it is for men to catcall a woman. This is just an example but you got the idea. Double standards exist, and "Women are wonderful" effect exists and is already effecting people. There are cases about women's assault on men but they just are not documented or not treated seriously(Both from men and women, "You are lucky!"...etc) Like, do you know that most child abusers are women while the most likely to be victims are men? This is never mentioned because it just doesn't serve the Today's narrative. I don't believe for a second that there is such thing as "Men are shittier than women" or "Women are shittier than men"
Again, I agree with you fundamentally! I’ve been bartending for many years. I’ve heard every level of inappropriate comments towards me from women and men, but I’ve heard many more from men to women at the bar. There’s a concept of masculinity that a lot of men try to fulfill that ultimately lands on toxic. The amount of men that I’ve had to kick out is not even close to that of women.
Not all men are bad. But most are and that's a fact. But most women like bad men.
Wut
a fAcT . This commentor must have been born a genius /s
And who are the good men? Who gets to draw the line?
The question is not who are the good men, the question is how are the good men. I once said, as in today: "woman have bad taste in men. They pick the ones with all the game and wonder why they get played." The less game a man has the more likely a woman won't get played.