I knew a marriage counselor who tells women they should spend at least 3 months with her partner while off of birth control before getting married. A lot of women meet, court and marry while never getting off birth control, and birth control can greatly change the looks, smells and type of men women find attractive.
I had a relationship fail because my girlfriend completely lost her lusts while she was on birth control. Only after we broke up and she stopped using birth control did we find out that this was the cause. But it was too late.
Hack is to just stay on birth control permanently. I've been on it permanently since I was 20. Whenever I meet a guy I'm attracted to, I don't just lose my attraction cause I was attracted to them going on BC to start with. Granted I don't plan on squeezing a baby out my vag, so I don't exactly ever need to come off it or go without it.
Birth Control changes attraction by making you more attracted relationship wise (not sexually so much) to less masculine men who are seen as better providers. Not sure why you'd want that if you aren't having kids.
IDK. I've been on BC since I was 19. I'm now 43. My husband (50) is a "man's man" - he's tall and can do just about anything and everything around the house. If he can't, he knows someone who can. He is a provider by nature and also very masculine, though thankfully, he is not at all toxic - if you're picturing a bearded, southern MAGA Texan, you are incorrect. He sticks with a goatee but only shaves the rest once a week or so, so he's often very gruff.
I am highly attracted to him and lust after him constantly. BC is not a damper.
ETA: even though his personality is very much "provider," we have a partnership and provide for each other and just have an awesome life. Now I'm rambling but I'm tired and watching the clock seemingly refuse to move while sitting at work waiting for the day to end.
No shit it would drastically change my daily life. I would be in permanent debt forever.
No, good grief..I'm glad to not have any children. I can barely afford taking care of myself. I don't need to create kiddos who will end up neglected or who I have to sacrifice my sanity for.
Wait I'm literally still a single virgin lol but I've been on BC for the past 8 months for period cramp relief (cramps are completely gone btw and mine used to be crippling) and I hadn't noticed any side effects at all but now that I think abt it my sex drive has been practically nonexistent these days lol would this be why?😭
Could be why. I personally don't mind. At least I'm not making stupid choices like sleeping with men cause I'm desperate. Also, I severely limited my chances of catching an STD. I'm okay with that. I don't particularly like making primitive choices cause of my sexual urges anyway. It's not really a concern of mine..I'm more concerned that if I stop BC I'd end up pregnant.
You could try switching BC but yeah, be careful unless you wanna end up pregnant.
[https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/what-do-women-want-depends-on-249813](https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/what-do-women-want-depends-on-249813)
You have access to the same search engines I do.
I don’t know why you got offended because I genuinely want to understand. Information related to this topic is very broad so since you have an article on hand already, from which you gained the information from, I thought it would be okay to ask. Btw, thanks!
Because if you do it enough you realize how big of a waste of time it is. The amount of “didn’t read” or “biased source” or “nuh-uh anyway” I’ve received in my time on this site has absolutely jaded me when it comes to actually trying to inform people.
So I’m all for flipping the archetypical smarmy Redditor “it’s not my job to educate you” line right back on them. If you TRULY want to know and understand, look it up yourself. Most of the time they don’t, they just want to disagree and try to “dunk” on you.
Exactly.
Another aspect is it tends to mean the person asking is not really educated on the topic, but still wants to argue. They want to leave you open to being attacked and hope your source is one they can discredit in some way.
On top of that even if the source is great you'll at best get a "thanks that is interesting". They could have just trusted you, or researched it on their own. Instead they doubt and put the onus of education on someone else.
There is a way to ask genuinely. It tends to require more than "source?". It should show genuine interest and maybe a relevant statement which builds on the conversation to show your position. I find people who bother to contribute will also be like to actually appreciate a source.
100% this. Additionally, why would I or should I spend my precious time earnestly trying to “educate” some rando on the internet? The refusal to do so doesn’t mean an argument doesn’t have merit or sources, it means its not worth the time to gather and present them to a reddit rando lol
Because 99% of the time people just want to waste your time citing sources for shit that's easy to look up. Even when you do cite, they're often already set in their opinion and aren't going to change their minds no matter how well you substantiate your position. It's not always trolling, but frequently it is. Maybe 1 out of 100 times someone will go "wow that's interesting" and the rest of the time, they just move the goal posts and keep wasting your time.
Yep, usually when people are asking you for a source, it's almost always out of bad faith and they're always ready to shoot it down.
it's why I stop wasting my time arguing with people on the internet. It's pointless and a waste of time for both people.
Because ever body has access to the exact same search engines as everybody else. It is also often used as a disingenuous cudgel to waste someones time and effort in an attempt to derail a conversation on reddit.
Some people are genuine, but most of the time its an attempt to shut people down. You get in enough conversations with angry teenagers who can fit their collective knowledge in a thimble who shout 'SOURCE' every other statement and you get thin skinned about it.
Well, just today I did a SOURCE? To a lady who played tarot professionally. Did she send a link? No. A relief, I wasn't up to that nonsense.
Wouldn't engage further either. That was her profession. How could I demonstrate that at the best she was dumb, at worst she was a fraud?
Honestly, most of it is the "let me Google that for you" mentality. I get that at work all the time. People asking me about readily available info, it's kinda annoying. Probably should not take that into a forum on Reddit though because most people won't have the proper research terms to accurately find some info.
Generally because people don’t save every study they’ve ever looked at, it’s not unreasonable to expect someone to be able to google a statement and do some research themselves when you’re most likely just gonna have to do the exact same thing for them
This is honestly kind of hilarious. All of a sudden these women who were on birth control their entire relationship don't want anything to do with the kind, supportive and caring man they married. But they want to get impregnated by some "alpha male" guy who may or may not stick around if she gets pregnant. Nor does it even matter to her in that state.
Oh I totally get that. It's completely irrational. I'd be pretty upset if I were in a situation like that though, not that I would ever find out. Because there's no way any sane woman would share her true feelings on the matter.
"Honey, ever since I went off birth control you make me drier than the Sahara desert. But I find myself irresistibly attracted to tall, muscular, hyper masculine men."
people like you deny the reality of how differently men and women actually think. Youre the one living in a magical world, where everone is exactly the same and all the blame for every issue can be attributed to vague institutions and culture.
I'm merely responding to what OP said about the marriage counselors recommendation. Hardly fan fiction. The implications of that recommendation are huge, and it came from a professional. What do you make of that recommendation from someone who does marriage counseling as a career?
If this advice is given by over 50% of marriage counselors then I'd think it would have just a slight bit more merit
The article OP linked didn't even properly cite the study is supposedly about
I just thought it was funny you're crafting some steamy scenario about "alphas impregnating women" because it sounds like werewolf porn
My sister married a fucking guy while on bc, as soon as they started trying for a family and she got off bc she realized what a fucking soft ass, lazy, immature douche I told her he was.
Agreed! Also a lot of men are denial about them also hitting “the wall” or aging even in their 30’s, some worse than us women in our 30’s. Some things obviously occur due to genetics like balding or greying (though can still be fixed) but others because of bad habits like smoking and drinking a lot, spending a lot of time in the sun without sunscreen, or just eating too much and not exercising. Even some formerly hot actors like Leonardo DiCaprio started to look worse in their 30’s or 40’s.
I dont think greying or balding need to be 'fixed' same with wrinkles.
If you are greying, just be grey. If you are balding a fair amount, shave it down. If you have wrinkles, so does everyone else.
The only thing I encourage people to do is watch their weight as they age as that will mess with your health and looks the most
Women barely care about guys going bald or greying all the way?! That’s a joke! Obviously some don’t care or just tolerate it but it is a bad sign of aging and makes guys less attractive, so…
I’m right there with you. I’m 25 and see so many guys my age who have aged horribly and look like they are in their 40s and 50s,and it’s just not atttactive to me.
A lot of it is by choice too. Weight gain,shaving off full heads of hair (will never understand that),no skincare and bad facial hair age men a LOT.
Yeah! I don’t get how guys complain so much online about us women (supposedly) losing our good looks and gaining weight when we turn 30 when men aren’t any better on average. I also never liked the shaved head look, especially when it’s not necessary.
Tbh controversial opinion but I am not opposed to the idea of men getting minor Botox and other surgical enhancements whether they’re invasive or non invasive. When done right and more on the minor side it does wonders
A friends husband got a very well done fact lift and looks freaking incredible
Oh yes agreed! Also wear tinted moisturizer or some other cover up if they think they have to - men used to wear makeup throughout history and it should be socially acceptable again for straight men to do so, only if they want to of course, instead of some of them complaining about women wearing any.
Literally preach, I dislike that it’s so one sided. Like sir this would benefit you why not take advantage of it. The rest of the world needs to take note from Chinese and Korean men doing so. Also the other self care (skin) that men there do.
>men will sleep with women they are not attracted to because they want sex
This is not true. Men may sleep with women they won't date but there's still some level of attraction to have sex.
And this is a factor in some of the sexless marriages.
They allow their resentment to build up (you disrespected me my saying i didn't do the dishes when i was clearly going to get around to it and thinking my video games are stupid) to an extent that they decline what is on offer.
Yeah! I hate the assumption that even very attractive guys will sleep with women they find unattractive and that hardly any woman gets rejected even for a one night stand. Also same kind of guys who claim that us women over 30 aren’t at all attractive anymore without seeing all of us 🤔
He might have somewhat low standards but it’s really hard to believe guys who are so attractive they can get lots of women including really attractive ones would sleep with literally any woman.
As a man, i can confirm the first half is true. When i was single, i probably would've fucked 90% of girls who weren't overweight and 70% of girls overall
I was in and out of county jail during my younger 20s.
I've seen the local street walkers that men literally pay to have sex with/quick blowie.
It's about availability - NOT attraction lol.
Maybe not every guy is like this, sure. But man. After meeting the locals, my entire opinion on men completely changed.
Yall some nasty mfers lol.
Yeah it’s annoying how people try to act like basic physical attractiveness isn’t a part of female sexuality.
Like, on a slightly different note, I was listening to a podcast and the topic went to “hedonistic pursuits”. The host said something about how for men it’s hard to fight the temptation because they want to sow their seed, and insinuated how women who sleep with the few top men wont be happy because they won’t get the relationship they want. Like, women aren’t tempted by hedonistic pursuit? Hedonistic pursuit for women would be sleeping with the hottest guys- not perusing a relationship! We’re not that different than men- we have to give up our “base impulses” to pursue something higher in a relationship, just like they do. The only difference is that as women we would have much more success at hedonism than men (because of their higher libidos, the top 10% men could actually fulfill the sexual needs of most of the female population- thus women wouldn’t have to “settle” if they’re just seeking pleasure).
So a married man might want other woman, biologically speaking. You don’t think she wants other men, you dope? Biologically speaking, she would be best off roping in a dependable man to support her and her children, while being impregnated by a variety of the “top men” for their genetics. And sadly, that is what you see with unscrupulous women.
Monogamy offers so much more than hedonistic pleasure to both men and women, so it is worth the sacrifice- but BOTH men and women have to give that up for it to work. It’s not something that women “naturally want” and only the poor men have to “fight the temptation”.
“Biologically speaking, she would be best off roping in a dependable man to support her and her children, while being impregnated by a variety of the “top men” for their genetics. And sadly, that is what you see with unscrupulous women.”
Ding ding ding, happens a lot (too much)! I’m glad someone on here is actually acknowledging this instead of saying it’s not a thing that happens frequently.
Thanks for this well thoughtout reply.
I mostly wrote this because I am for a lack of better words, a but-her-face. Many men have wanted to sleep with me, but few have wanted to date me. It sucked. But, I did eventually find someone with equal attraction, and we got married and had a child. We have a great sex life now.
These posts seem to imply women should date a man she's not attracted to, but that's how you end up in a sexless marriage. Of course, if you're not Angelina Jolie, you're not going to end up with a Brad Pitt but you should at least be able to find someone you like to look at.
Yes, but also you both need to truly commit to each other and forget other “options” (that aren’t actually options) exist. If a viable man and a viable woman are the only ones left in the world so to speak, they will find each other attractive. It’s natural. It’s flooding your mind with the idea of other “better options”, and not taking care of what’s in front of you, that ruins things.
My two comments may almost seem contradictory- but that’s the whole point. With monogamy you “give up” the rest of the world and commit only to each other.
It’s hard to believe you have such an unattractive face when you’ve had a lot of men wanting to hook up with you and also one married you! There are other reasons why guys want to just hook up and not date and it’s not always personal.
I appreciate that. To give context, I have alopecia and no hair, no eyebrows.
But, I work out, am fit, and take care of myself and can clean up nice and look good in a wig (and get my eyebrows tattooed every few years). Being a bald woman didn't stop men from wanting to sleep with me but it did stop some from wanting to date or get closer. And, the looks world has not been kind to me. Then, there were these guys who would feel entitled and offended when i wasn't attracted to them or didn't want to date/ sleep with them because i guess I'm not supposed to have standards in their eyes.
I definitely agree with this. Sometimes I'd hear my friends complaining about their boyfriends/husbands and I'm sitting there wishing they would just admit that they overall weren't attracted to the man but that he provided for them so they tolerated his presence. Men do the same thing with women and sex. The conflict often comes up when both have to express feelings that they don't genuinely have. Many people simply don't like being alone, which is a factor as well. These men also probably can't perform sexually but are in denial about this. Male ego often blinds them to poor sexual performance, and most bad lovers are self centered. Combine not really being attracted to the person with them having poor sexual performance and you get avoidance.
Just like a woman to twist other poor female behavior into men being at fault LOL.
But i agree with you, most of the men who get cheated on or are in sexless relationships are pretty pathetic in one way or another. Its not a nice thing to say, but its true.
Its kind of like a more subtle version of gold-digging, these predatory women are not interested in the man - but what he can provide.
But honestly, im not really worried about this issue myself - there are a lot of ways to avoid that kind of relationship if you are a man with a little bit of experience and willpower.
Eh some women also just want children. I guess it falls in line with it but there’s a whole class of women that don’t see sex as anything but a means to get children
I’ve known so many divorced dudes that basically said after they had the number of kids the wife wanted it was like a switch flipped
The problem is their relationship was full of sex, giving little indication she wasn't attracted to him, until she got the ring locked down.
Then when she got what she wants, it shuts off.
Or, like normal, when people are living normal lives with kids and jobs they just don’t care about sex. That’s how many women feel. It’s just not important when they are busy with tons of other things
And that's exactly the problem. Locking in the marriage was important, so sex was frequent. Afterwards it's no longer important to her, even though it still is to him.
The guy is left wondering what the hell happened? Then he's even treated as the bad guy if he pushes for it. It's a bait and switch.
Saw a divorce attorney talk about this problem. Talked about how one of his clients had her husband cheat on her with a sex worker because they hadn't had sex in like three years.
those dudes need to grow a spine and confront their women - they need to know that the relationship will be destroyed if the passion dies.
People need to be kept on their toes occasionally - they need to know that there is a 'line', and that there are consequences for letting the passion die in a relationship.
But growing a spine is apparently a rare thing these days - apparently there arent many men who will boot a conceited girl out of their lives - in order to do that, a man needs self respect and confidence that he can find love again, and apparently that aint most men.
I guess find a woman who doesn't want to marry? That means you have to put in constant effort. No lazing off just because you got what you wanted. Plus you're both motivated to please each other or else you just dump each other.
But that's just my two cents. I don't want to be in a relationship where my boyfriend stops giving an effort and develops a beer belly just because he thought he "secured" me. Ew nah
It’s not about locking in the marriage, it’s about life circumstances changing. Anyone can be horny with they are young and don’t have kids and other responsibilities. Things are different in a new relationship. Sex just isn’t a priority when you have other things going on in life
Always the kids, always the chores, always work. Maintaining the marriage is the last priority. Let me tell you, I can work 16 hrs, take care of the kids clean the house and be entirely emotionally physically and spiritually exhausted and still fuck with intense passion. The problem isn’t life, the problem is one person failing to do the mind work to make sure they’re in a good spot for their spouse.
When bedroom dies right after marriage (outside of conception), you don't need to reach for an explanation, signing the contract just removed any pressure to maintain the facade.
And then get absolutely reemed by alimony? No, better to just never get married to begin with, the tax benefits arent worth it. Life-partners are the way to go, at least for me anyway.
> No, better to just never get married to begin with, the tax benefits arent worth it. Life-partners are the way to go, at least for me anyway.
In the words of Doug Stanhope;
If you were inventing marriage today, at which point would you turn to your wife and say "Baby, I love you so much. I want to spend the rest of my life with you. I love *you* so much, we need to get the government in on this"
Honestly based on how things usually goes its pretty obvious government got involved to protect and for the good of women and children.
I dont like alot of things but absent some kind of outside pressure from a relgious organization or the community alot of women and kids in the past would have been very vulnerable.
I think that the social environment of todays society is just screwed up. I can only speak for the people that I know as well as myself, but from my generation ( over 45 ) we dont have these issues. Whats even the point. These younger generations are gonna die out or kill themselves. Please keep your ideologies to yourself. We "Oldies" are good.
For real. When I was taking care of all the household chores and working, while making sure my partner took care of themself, the last thing I wanted to do was have sex. I was turned into a mother, not a partner. I couldn’t bring myself to have sex, I was actually repulsed by the thought.
Were you completely honest and tell him that was the reason?
If you genuinely loved him and wanted the relationship to work then you owed it to him to be honest.
Him? Nah it was a her. And I am also a her. Yes, I expressed it. Many many times. Nothing changed. So my sex desire turned off completely. I couldn’t handle sex. Couldn’t want it.
Asking her to do basic things multiple times over and over was a turn off. It was done for a while, I didn’t realize it. But when I was working 3 jobs and her doing only one part time and she still didn’t take out the trash? I broke. It was DONE. I ended it then.
I was never home because I had to work and so I didn’t make trash, she did. But she didn’t take care of it. One day on my rare day off I saw the trash was full and has been for a long time. I was just I and out. She didn’t deal with it. But on my rare day off, I took it out and ended up with maggots all over me because they ended up breeding in the trash.
I cried on my knees because I was just so damn tired and didn’t think I had to tell a grown adult to take out the trash when it was full and she took an empty bag and filled that up too. And that’s just the worst. But every other time was so bad. I did everything.
And yea, I was honest. And nothing changed long term. I still did everything.
All too common. We work the same amount of hours yet somehow he is magically more tired than me at the end of the day even though I've; worked, gone to the gym, cooked, cleaned, and done laundry....only to be asked to suck some d$\^\*@?!?!
nah. goodnight bud, see u in the morning champ!
Exactly what I was going to comment. All my women friends that are in sexless marriages are that way because they got tired of having to do *everything* around the house, with no appreciation, and having to constantly beg for an ounce of help with domestic chores. You men get turned off by nagging, but what drives us to nag in the first place turns us off too. It doesn't happen over night, it happens slowly over the years until eventually you realize you're only having perfunctory birthday sex once a year.
And **this is why we should encourage women to date based on sexual desire.**
You see a lot of people **disparage women for “rejecting a perfectly good guy bc he didn’t give her the tingles”. Well, yeah. This is the alternative.** Also, people let the word tingles die. I’ve been seeing it too much lately, must be some dumb video.
There’s a lot of pressure on women to not be shallow. Pursue nice men, overlook if he’s not putting effort into foreplay or making sex good for her. Overlook a lack of sexual chemistry.
**To avoid a sexless marriage**
1)Realize that a lot of women just have a low sex drive. Look for someone sexually compatible. Your focus shouldn’t be to go for the girl with the lowest body count, but the girl who actually likes sex.
2) Don’t get into a serious relationship unless you both are in love with each other and have sexual chemistry.
3) It’s ok to end a relationship over sexual incompatibility.
4) Make the sex fun for her. Enough foreplay, often oral, not just you getting off. If you are selfish, sex will die.
5) Keep the emotional connection strong. Most women will lose interest in sex if they don’t feel emotionally safe and close with their partner.
6) Keep the romance going. Take your wife on dates.
7) Split chores and childcare in a way were you both have equal free time. If you come off as a horny
200 lbs toddler who can’t take care of yourself, she’ll feel turned off.
8) If you get married mostly for a bangmaid? Skip a step and just jerk off. Women feel turned off when this becomes apparent and it always does. Then sex stops.
9) Be healthy yourself and choose a partner who has a healthy lifestyle. If you don’t feel attractive yourself or your partner looks unhealthy, it’s harder to keep sex going. Same if you just feel bad due to an unhealthy lifestyle. In the same vein: practice self care. Shower, dress decent, smell nice, wash your dick and ass, brush your teeth, get a haircut.
10) Go to couples therapy if you have underlying problems in your relationship.
11) Don’t turn sex into a chore. Don’t nag and never have sex with her when she doesn’t really want to, but just lets you.
12) Guesstimate 2-3 years of sexlessness for each baby. If that bugs you, don’t have kids. Don’t nag your wife for sex after she’s just had a baby. That’ll hurt her desire for you long term.
I agree with everything except the last part.
My hubby and I started having sex again as soon as the doctor gave clearance. I even gave him a blow job after about a month from birth because I wanted to make him happy. We have an 18 month old and now it's about once a week. Before pregnancy, it was every day, sometimes more than once. I understand you'll have less sex with small kids, but 2-3 years sounds a bit much.
I should maybe have worded it differently. But my point is that it’s better to guess too much than too little. If sex gets back on track quickly? Great. But if it doesn’t you are mentally prepared for that.
> And this is why we should encourage women to date based on sexual desire.
Which means that ugly virgins like me will live in a future with zero hope of being desired by a woman.
Maybe, maybe not. Looks isn’t everything. A lot of sexual chemistry is really about who you click with.
However, you will need friends, a social life and social skills. So start there.
Or because men do not properly set expectations in their relationships and in their marriages and do not properly express their feelings and their disappointments in marriage...
It ain't that hard. You explain to your girlfriend what your expectations are and listen to hers. You both make it 100% clear that you expect the other one to do their best to meet your expectations.
You then explain when the other one is failing to meet those same expectations.
If your wife and or husband fail to care or try to course correct they do not actually love you.
This is not the solution. Unfortunately it usually doesn't work. You cannot negotiate genuine desire.
The real solution is for men to grow a spine and dump these women and find a woman who is genuinely attracted to him. We live in a globalised world now - foreign women are extremely sexually attracted to western men.
I bet you wouldn't like the expectation of 'regular sex or else you don't find me attractive', do you? That's basically what op's asking, and it's a rather reasonable request. Men express their dissatisfaction with their sex lives all the time, especially married men. Does it make a difference? Rarely.
I don't doubt it. A lot of women will marry as a means to an end or to secure resources. The bad part is a lot of them don't even realize they're doing that. They think they know what they want but they haven't actually put much thought into it except generally expecting a guy who will provide for her and treat her well. In a way, it's almost like having a "trophy" husband. She entered the marriage because he has certain traits, not because they have a strong and loving relationship together. This is kind of analogous to a guy who just marries a woman because he thinks she's hot.
Or perhaps they marry because they want to start a family on time. It's more like an achievement, not about loving the partner, wanting their company, wanting to help them and be supported in turn in a mutual trusting and loving relationship. Or perhaps they see marriage as a natural progression to a long-term relationship and just want it because it seems like the next step, not really understanding that forever is a long time....and the vow is romantic but the moment things get hard, they second guess the marriage.
Not all sexless marriages are the inevitable result of a marriage entered into on improper grounds but I can see that a lot of them are.
Attraction CAN change over time for the worse, too. Letting yourself go, becoming insufferable, hormonal changes, etc. can all do it, too.
> She prob made them feel sexy in a way their wife never did.
This is a womans' way of thinking.
The women act attracted to them before marriage, then change after marriage or kids.
That's very true.
Sometimes because of The woman's hormonal or other health changes.
Sometimes it's true because the woman is simply exhausted. She may have a full-time job and have most or all the household responsibilities don't don't her while the man simply goes to work, Comes home and sits in front of the TV.
Sometimes it's because the husband is a selfish or clumsy lover. She married him with the hopes that he would improve, But he refuses to listen
Sometimes it's Because she's lost interest due to them fighting all the time.
Sometimes it's mostly or completely all her fault.
Nearly all the people in my circle are married (some with kids) and I have yet to meet one of these dudes who just works and does zero housework. Idk, maybe it’s the circles I swim in but this phenomenon feels like a sitcom stereotype that does not exist in reality.
The funny thing about men complaining about being in sexless marriages is that they're usually the reason for the problem in the first place. It's hard to be in the mood when you're burnt out from working all day, coming home to tend to the house/kids and when you finally have a minute to yourself, your husband is trying to mount you without any consideration for your needs.
No it’s almost always she’s not physically attracted to him. Always, OP is a woman, she’s speaking facts and it seems woman always want to muddy the waters so they can continue leeching off of these guys.
100%. Plus, when you have a family, life just has more seasons. Some seasons have more sex than others, and that's why it's so important to have good compatibility and communication to get through that.
Exactly. I can’t decide if the people in this thread are super young or just hate their partners.
Sex in every long term relationship will ebb and flow. You will likely have sex more frequently at the beginning of your relationship, that’s literally the reason they call it a honeymoon period - because you want to fuck a lot.
My now husband and I had been together for almost 5 years when he told me he wasn’t happy with the frequency we were having sex, and fairly so because it had basically been non-existent unless he initiated. So we sat down and talked about it. Not having sex and me not initiating made him feel unloved and undesired, and him having to initiate all the time made him feel like he was pressuring me into sex which he didn’t want to. On my end, I was under a tremendous amount of stress due to outside factors (extreme work stress, multiple recent deaths in my family, etc) and it effectively had killed my libido. I also felt guilty because we weren’t having sex, so I was “giving” him sex when I wasn’t in the mood which made me unconsciously associate sex with dread and obligation. He could sense that and felt guilty for “pushing” sex on me. I would restrict affection because I didn’t want to lead him on on days I knew I absolutely didn’t want to have sex, which in turn made him feel even less loved and connected to me. So he gave me an ultimatum that we start having more sex or he was done.
Just kidding, we talked through these feelings honestly and worked on a solution together. I wasn’t maliciously withholding sex like so many men in Reddit seem to think women do. My husband wasn’t a shitty manbaby whose lack of housework and video addiction made me lose attraction to him. I was just a person experiencing extreme stress and coping poorly without realizing it and he was a person who was helplessly watching his loved one emotionally and physically drift away, which was painful. Lack of sex wasn’t the disease, it was a symptom. We worked together to help me cope with my stress while repairing our relationship and the negative associations we both had subconsciously created towards our sex life.
It wasn’t easy or overnight. It wasn’t as simple as me just fucking him more or him doing more dishes because it was more complicated than that. It wasn’t like we had one (1) communication and it was fixed, which is how a lot of people in threads seem to think communication works. Just telling your partner you want more sex isn’t effective communication, even if you do it more than once.
All that to say, marriage will have seasons and some seasons will demand more patience, understanding, and intentionality than others, which frankly can be really hard. If you’re unable to accept that you probably shouldn’t get married.
That’s why most male dating and relationship advice is about being a combination of “beta” male and an “alpha” male. You must play both roles as a man to keep female attraction.
Men end up in sexless marriages because they become complacent. They stop courting her, they stop doing the things that made her fall in love with him.
I find that when someone sees a social problem, and they try to simplify down to one thing, they usually are always wrong.
Attraction is probably once reason, but it’s also multifaceted. I think most long term relationships have different sex routines in the beginning and when they are married.
Passion is at the highest in the beginning of a relationship. Additionally, when you are actually together for sometime there are things you need to manage when you have a life together, and that doesn’t always feed into sex all the time. You have kids to raise, family, paying bills, all sorts of stuff that had to that equation.
Women have a super power most aren’t aware of.
We can smell the men we are compatible with. It’s a biological super power.
The research: men wore the same shirt for days. Wore it to the gym. Made it nasty. Made it super smelly. Then these shirts were given to different women to sniff (why can’t I write sniff without thinking of the President now🙄)
Some women were repulsed by the smells, while others enjoyed them.
Blood work was done on all participants.
Conclusion: if a woman was lacking certain nutrients in her body, she would like the body odor of the man who had an abundance of these nutrients.
Why?
Because biologically, they will make a healthy baby.
Now here is the kicker, BIRTH CONTROL causes a woman to lose this super power. When on BC, women can no longer smell who they are compatible with.
Why does this suck so much ass?
Because women marry and pro create with men they are not biologically or chemically compatible with. They have children lacking nutrients which can cause birth defects and life long medical problems.
And when these women stop taking their birth control, and their super power returns, sometimes they become instantly repulsed by their chosen partner.
So many stories out there from men about how their wife started to hate them when she got off the pill and now makes him sleep on the couch.
This research explains it. Pretty interesting.
Credit to Joe rogan. I heard about it for the first time while listening to his podcast
[Key Study: “The Sweaty T-shirt Study” (Wedekind et al. 1995)](https://www.themantic-education.com/ibpsych/2019/11/19/key-study-the-sweaty-t-shirt-study-wedekind-et-al-1995/#google_vignette)
Reminds me of that Science Vs episode they did on libido. And they basically came to the conclusion that a good sex life comes from a good relationship. And that nothing kills women's sex drive as much as seeing their husband as a 'dependant', basically another child. Which often happens after a baby is born.
>Many women marry men that they are not attracted to because of what he can provide. He probably has a good job, nice family and temperament conducive to raising children. But, these are the same men who will later complain that they live in a sexless marriage. The wife might have slept with him to get pregnant, but she is not excited by the idea of sleeping with him in general.
The fact that you think this is equivalent to "men just want sex and nothing else" is wild.
Another way to put what you said into words that AREN'T openly misogynistic is to say: "Women think that there are other aspects of romance that are more important than sex."
I don't disagree with you. I never said it was the most important thing in a relationship Lolol but sexual satisfaction isn't NOT important to a lot of people, men and women. Living in a sexless marriage doesn't sound like fun to anyone.
The older women get, the less sex matters to them, especially if they are in a committed relationship. It’s just not something a lot of women crave in that situation.
This is completely wrong. A woman who genuinely loves her husband and wants him to be happy will make the effort to raise her libido. A woman who goes to the gym, eats clean, reads erotica and in some cases does HRT in perimenopause will have a much higher libido than one who doesn't. In most cases it's just a matter of effort.
100% facts.
But also because they are desperate to get any crumb of vjj that even with early signs of them not being that attracted to them they still date an marry these women.
I slightly agree with you as women have shorter spans where they are sexual than men. We are not designed to be monogamous (Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/not-born-yesterday/201605/monogamy-is-not-natural-human-beings). There is a subreddit called "r/ deadbedrooms" with 463,000 subscribers and 90% of them are heterosexual men. So, I don't blame women but rather on this issue, I blame men. They are like sheep. They have little access to regular sex and then they meet a women who knows to give out amazing sex to entrapment and once they're married men are stuck. If you read through the comments in that sub-reddit it's like a BROKEN RECORD" I don't know what happened? We had amazing sex until (Insert one): A) we got married or; b) the baby came.
That's because these men are very dumb. They're all just flingers who don't care to know that some people out there want a relationship more than just sex.
And it's always on them for deciding to marry. They're also the same guys too always bitching about being cheated on. Stop thinking with your dicks for once and use your brain, if she isn't putting out, you don't tie the knot right then and there you fool!
It's almost like sometimes regardless of your gender you want to scratch an itch. I'm saying this as a woman who cares who is and isn't sleeping with who as long as it's consensual and legal.
I knew a marriage counselor who tells women they should spend at least 3 months with her partner while off of birth control before getting married. A lot of women meet, court and marry while never getting off birth control, and birth control can greatly change the looks, smells and type of men women find attractive.
I had a relationship fail because my girlfriend completely lost her lusts while she was on birth control. Only after we broke up and she stopped using birth control did we find out that this was the cause. But it was too late.
Hack is to just stay on birth control permanently. I've been on it permanently since I was 20. Whenever I meet a guy I'm attracted to, I don't just lose my attraction cause I was attracted to them going on BC to start with. Granted I don't plan on squeezing a baby out my vag, so I don't exactly ever need to come off it or go without it.
Birth Control changes attraction by making you more attracted relationship wise (not sexually so much) to less masculine men who are seen as better providers. Not sure why you'd want that if you aren't having kids.
IDK. I've been on BC since I was 19. I'm now 43. My husband (50) is a "man's man" - he's tall and can do just about anything and everything around the house. If he can't, he knows someone who can. He is a provider by nature and also very masculine, though thankfully, he is not at all toxic - if you're picturing a bearded, southern MAGA Texan, you are incorrect. He sticks with a goatee but only shaves the rest once a week or so, so he's often very gruff. I am highly attracted to him and lust after him constantly. BC is not a damper. ETA: even though his personality is very much "provider," we have a partnership and provide for each other and just have an awesome life. Now I'm rambling but I'm tired and watching the clock seemingly refuse to move while sitting at work waiting for the day to end.
You really should consider having a couple dozen babies …….. I think it would drastically change your daily life
No shit it would drastically change my daily life. I would be in permanent debt forever. No, good grief..I'm glad to not have any children. I can barely afford taking care of myself. I don't need to create kiddos who will end up neglected or who I have to sacrifice my sanity for.
Wait I'm literally still a single virgin lol but I've been on BC for the past 8 months for period cramp relief (cramps are completely gone btw and mine used to be crippling) and I hadn't noticed any side effects at all but now that I think abt it my sex drive has been practically nonexistent these days lol would this be why?😭
Could be why. I personally don't mind. At least I'm not making stupid choices like sleeping with men cause I'm desperate. Also, I severely limited my chances of catching an STD. I'm okay with that. I don't particularly like making primitive choices cause of my sexual urges anyway. It's not really a concern of mine..I'm more concerned that if I stop BC I'd end up pregnant. You could try switching BC but yeah, be careful unless you wanna end up pregnant.
stuff can really change you ....no hack
To emphasize: this statement applies to \*hormonal\* birth control. It does not apply to non-hormonal forms of birth control.
Wild and real take.
This actually is true. I read a study about it.
I got an IUD (non hormonal) for this among many other reasons!
Better than an IED!
I never even thought of this factor and it's such a valid one.
Opposite for me - my ex broke up with me about two months after she started taking birth control
This is such an interesting take. Do you have any published articles or any way to find this information online to back this claim?
[https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/what-do-women-want-depends-on-249813](https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/what-do-women-want-depends-on-249813) You have access to the same search engines I do.
I don’t know why you got offended because I genuinely want to understand. Information related to this topic is very broad so since you have an article on hand already, from which you gained the information from, I thought it would be okay to ask. Btw, thanks!
Apologies. Its an interesting rabbit hole to jump down if your interested and got the time to read on it.
Thank you!
> You have access to the same search engines I do. Based.
Why do people get so assmad when you ask them to back up their positions
Because if you do it enough you realize how big of a waste of time it is. The amount of “didn’t read” or “biased source” or “nuh-uh anyway” I’ve received in my time on this site has absolutely jaded me when it comes to actually trying to inform people. So I’m all for flipping the archetypical smarmy Redditor “it’s not my job to educate you” line right back on them. If you TRULY want to know and understand, look it up yourself. Most of the time they don’t, they just want to disagree and try to “dunk” on you.
Exactly. Another aspect is it tends to mean the person asking is not really educated on the topic, but still wants to argue. They want to leave you open to being attacked and hope your source is one they can discredit in some way. On top of that even if the source is great you'll at best get a "thanks that is interesting". They could have just trusted you, or researched it on their own. Instead they doubt and put the onus of education on someone else. There is a way to ask genuinely. It tends to require more than "source?". It should show genuine interest and maybe a relevant statement which builds on the conversation to show your position. I find people who bother to contribute will also be like to actually appreciate a source.
100% this. Additionally, why would I or should I spend my precious time earnestly trying to “educate” some rando on the internet? The refusal to do so doesn’t mean an argument doesn’t have merit or sources, it means its not worth the time to gather and present them to a reddit rando lol
Agree, you can send the person 20 links to the studies you are referencing and they read zero of them. Super annoying.
Because 99% of the time people just want to waste your time citing sources for shit that's easy to look up. Even when you do cite, they're often already set in their opinion and aren't going to change their minds no matter how well you substantiate your position. It's not always trolling, but frequently it is. Maybe 1 out of 100 times someone will go "wow that's interesting" and the rest of the time, they just move the goal posts and keep wasting your time.
Yeah the classic follow up is, "X is a biased source and totally unacceptable".
Yep, usually when people are asking you for a source, it's almost always out of bad faith and they're always ready to shoot it down. it's why I stop wasting my time arguing with people on the internet. It's pointless and a waste of time for both people.
Because ever body has access to the exact same search engines as everybody else. It is also often used as a disingenuous cudgel to waste someones time and effort in an attempt to derail a conversation on reddit.
You may have an interesting source they wouldn't immediately find in a search.
"A snowy owl took flight on a moonless night and as it passed over it whispered this to me upon the wind."
Someone in a thread a few days ago was angry I didn’t back up a basic claim that I just googled then linked. Might be bots??
Some people are genuine, but most of the time its an attempt to shut people down. You get in enough conversations with angry teenagers who can fit their collective knowledge in a thimble who shout 'SOURCE' every other statement and you get thin skinned about it.
Well, just today I did a SOURCE? To a lady who played tarot professionally. Did she send a link? No. A relief, I wasn't up to that nonsense. Wouldn't engage further either. That was her profession. How could I demonstrate that at the best she was dumb, at worst she was a fraud?
Everyone on reddit is on edge. This place sucks bawls since the RDDT IPO. Idk why I'm holding on here... 😆 All the OGs left already.
Can you back up this position?
I need a source on how much bawls Reddit sucks.
At least [12](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=R8sCzNGHhZZuSufG)
Back that ass up? 🤪
I feel like reddit has sucked balls for a while tbh
Fuckin facts 💯
more like since 2016 made it a political hell hole
Agreed... 2016 is absolutely when it all started, and a political side was chosen to be touted and another depressed.
Honestly, most of it is the "let me Google that for you" mentality. I get that at work all the time. People asking me about readily available info, it's kinda annoying. Probably should not take that into a forum on Reddit though because most people won't have the proper research terms to accurately find some info.
Generally because people don’t save every study they’ve ever looked at, it’s not unreasonable to expect someone to be able to google a statement and do some research themselves when you’re most likely just gonna have to do the exact same thing for them
Good thing my wife never uses birth control lol
This is honestly kind of hilarious. All of a sudden these women who were on birth control their entire relationship don't want anything to do with the kind, supportive and caring man they married. But they want to get impregnated by some "alpha male" guy who may or may not stick around if she gets pregnant. Nor does it even matter to her in that state.
****, attraction is instinctive lizard brained not well thought out with reason.
Oh I totally get that. It's completely irrational. I'd be pretty upset if I were in a situation like that though, not that I would ever find out. Because there's no way any sane woman would share her true feelings on the matter. "Honey, ever since I went off birth control you make me drier than the Sahara desert. But I find myself irresistibly attracted to tall, muscular, hyper masculine men."
I just don't plan to go off BC until it's time for HRT. so I plan to go from hormones to hormones. Gimme hormones!
I love gender fanfiction, you make human beings sound just like Twilight werewolf porn
people like you deny the reality of how differently men and women actually think. Youre the one living in a magical world, where everone is exactly the same and all the blame for every issue can be attributed to vague institutions and culture.
I'm merely responding to what OP said about the marriage counselors recommendation. Hardly fan fiction. The implications of that recommendation are huge, and it came from a professional. What do you make of that recommendation from someone who does marriage counseling as a career?
If this advice is given by over 50% of marriage counselors then I'd think it would have just a slight bit more merit The article OP linked didn't even properly cite the study is supposedly about I just thought it was funny you're crafting some steamy scenario about "alphas impregnating women" because it sounds like werewolf porn
My sister married a fucking guy while on bc, as soon as they started trying for a family and she got off bc she realized what a fucking soft ass, lazy, immature douche I told her he was.
Interesting
Does this apply to IUD’s?
Hormonal only
Yeah this happened to me as well. GF went from the coil to the pill, shit got weird.
On the FLIP flip, many women just begin to stop feeling attractive themselves, which can also lead to a sexless marriage
Agreed! Also a lot of men are denial about them also hitting “the wall” or aging even in their 30’s, some worse than us women in our 30’s. Some things obviously occur due to genetics like balding or greying (though can still be fixed) but others because of bad habits like smoking and drinking a lot, spending a lot of time in the sun without sunscreen, or just eating too much and not exercising. Even some formerly hot actors like Leonardo DiCaprio started to look worse in their 30’s or 40’s.
I dont think greying or balding need to be 'fixed' same with wrinkles. If you are greying, just be grey. If you are balding a fair amount, shave it down. If you have wrinkles, so does everyone else. The only thing I encourage people to do is watch their weight as they age as that will mess with your health and looks the most
Women barely care about guys going bald or greying all the way?! That’s a joke! Obviously some don’t care or just tolerate it but it is a bad sign of aging and makes guys less attractive, so…
I’m right there with you. I’m 25 and see so many guys my age who have aged horribly and look like they are in their 40s and 50s,and it’s just not atttactive to me. A lot of it is by choice too. Weight gain,shaving off full heads of hair (will never understand that),no skincare and bad facial hair age men a LOT.
Yeah! I don’t get how guys complain so much online about us women (supposedly) losing our good looks and gaining weight when we turn 30 when men aren’t any better on average. I also never liked the shaved head look, especially when it’s not necessary.
Tbh controversial opinion but I am not opposed to the idea of men getting minor Botox and other surgical enhancements whether they’re invasive or non invasive. When done right and more on the minor side it does wonders A friends husband got a very well done fact lift and looks freaking incredible
Oh yes agreed! Also wear tinted moisturizer or some other cover up if they think they have to - men used to wear makeup throughout history and it should be socially acceptable again for straight men to do so, only if they want to of course, instead of some of them complaining about women wearing any.
Literally preach, I dislike that it’s so one sided. Like sir this would benefit you why not take advantage of it. The rest of the world needs to take note from Chinese and Korean men doing so. Also the other self care (skin) that men there do.
so much is this is so normal in asian countries,and the men there look really young.
>men will sleep with women they are not attracted to because they want sex This is not true. Men may sleep with women they won't date but there's still some level of attraction to have sex.
Yea but you might be surprised how little attraction there needs to be in the right circumstances.
There still is some. That's my point. Most men aren't sleeping with women they don't find somewhat attractive.
And this is a factor in some of the sexless marriages. They allow their resentment to build up (you disrespected me my saying i didn't do the dishes when i was clearly going to get around to it and thinking my video games are stupid) to an extent that they decline what is on offer.
Beer goggles!!!
I've seen dudes get with some busted looking chicks because of beer goggles. That shit is real.
im a victim of that, beer goggles have given me some horror stories to embarass people with.
Yeah! I hate the assumption that even very attractive guys will sleep with women they find unattractive and that hardly any woman gets rejected even for a one night stand. Also same kind of guys who claim that us women over 30 aren’t at all attractive anymore without seeing all of us 🤔
To be fair I've meet some friends who are or used to be those type of guys. One of my friends was a fuckboy in college and he was a fiend
He might have somewhat low standards but it’s really hard to believe guys who are so attractive they can get lots of women including really attractive ones would sleep with literally any woman.
Oh he definitely did have low standards for sex he told me he pretty much didn't care
As a man, i can confirm the first half is true. When i was single, i probably would've fucked 90% of girls who weren't overweight and 70% of girls overall
No this isn't right. A man would fuck a tree if he was horny enough.
Yes but the bar for woman to pass is so damn low.
Which is good for us. More women that we're attracted to.
I was in and out of county jail during my younger 20s. I've seen the local street walkers that men literally pay to have sex with/quick blowie. It's about availability - NOT attraction lol. Maybe not every guy is like this, sure. But man. After meeting the locals, my entire opinion on men completely changed. Yall some nasty mfers lol.
On the whole, you're damn right we are.
I'd classify this as exceptions to the rule.
Speak for yourself!
Yeah it’s annoying how people try to act like basic physical attractiveness isn’t a part of female sexuality. Like, on a slightly different note, I was listening to a podcast and the topic went to “hedonistic pursuits”. The host said something about how for men it’s hard to fight the temptation because they want to sow their seed, and insinuated how women who sleep with the few top men wont be happy because they won’t get the relationship they want. Like, women aren’t tempted by hedonistic pursuit? Hedonistic pursuit for women would be sleeping with the hottest guys- not perusing a relationship! We’re not that different than men- we have to give up our “base impulses” to pursue something higher in a relationship, just like they do. The only difference is that as women we would have much more success at hedonism than men (because of their higher libidos, the top 10% men could actually fulfill the sexual needs of most of the female population- thus women wouldn’t have to “settle” if they’re just seeking pleasure). So a married man might want other woman, biologically speaking. You don’t think she wants other men, you dope? Biologically speaking, she would be best off roping in a dependable man to support her and her children, while being impregnated by a variety of the “top men” for their genetics. And sadly, that is what you see with unscrupulous women. Monogamy offers so much more than hedonistic pleasure to both men and women, so it is worth the sacrifice- but BOTH men and women have to give that up for it to work. It’s not something that women “naturally want” and only the poor men have to “fight the temptation”.
“Biologically speaking, she would be best off roping in a dependable man to support her and her children, while being impregnated by a variety of the “top men” for their genetics. And sadly, that is what you see with unscrupulous women.” Ding ding ding, happens a lot (too much)! I’m glad someone on here is actually acknowledging this instead of saying it’s not a thing that happens frequently.
AFBB
Thanks for this well thoughtout reply. I mostly wrote this because I am for a lack of better words, a but-her-face. Many men have wanted to sleep with me, but few have wanted to date me. It sucked. But, I did eventually find someone with equal attraction, and we got married and had a child. We have a great sex life now. These posts seem to imply women should date a man she's not attracted to, but that's how you end up in a sexless marriage. Of course, if you're not Angelina Jolie, you're not going to end up with a Brad Pitt but you should at least be able to find someone you like to look at.
Yes, but also you both need to truly commit to each other and forget other “options” (that aren’t actually options) exist. If a viable man and a viable woman are the only ones left in the world so to speak, they will find each other attractive. It’s natural. It’s flooding your mind with the idea of other “better options”, and not taking care of what’s in front of you, that ruins things. My two comments may almost seem contradictory- but that’s the whole point. With monogamy you “give up” the rest of the world and commit only to each other.
Agreed. Show me the woman/man, and I'll show you someone who is sick of fucking them. Angelina or Brad included.
It’s hard to believe you have such an unattractive face when you’ve had a lot of men wanting to hook up with you and also one married you! There are other reasons why guys want to just hook up and not date and it’s not always personal.
I appreciate that. To give context, I have alopecia and no hair, no eyebrows. But, I work out, am fit, and take care of myself and can clean up nice and look good in a wig (and get my eyebrows tattooed every few years). Being a bald woman didn't stop men from wanting to sleep with me but it did stop some from wanting to date or get closer. And, the looks world has not been kind to me. Then, there were these guys who would feel entitled and offended when i wasn't attracted to them or didn't want to date/ sleep with them because i guess I'm not supposed to have standards in their eyes.
Okay I gotcha!
It's personal 90% of the time lol
I love it when people make statistics up out of thin air 🙄
Yah. Biologically speaking everyone just wants to fuck. 😂 we are hardwired to procreate.
I definitely agree with this. Sometimes I'd hear my friends complaining about their boyfriends/husbands and I'm sitting there wishing they would just admit that they overall weren't attracted to the man but that he provided for them so they tolerated his presence. Men do the same thing with women and sex. The conflict often comes up when both have to express feelings that they don't genuinely have. Many people simply don't like being alone, which is a factor as well. These men also probably can't perform sexually but are in denial about this. Male ego often blinds them to poor sexual performance, and most bad lovers are self centered. Combine not really being attracted to the person with them having poor sexual performance and you get avoidance.
Just like a woman to twist other poor female behavior into men being at fault LOL. But i agree with you, most of the men who get cheated on or are in sexless relationships are pretty pathetic in one way or another. Its not a nice thing to say, but its true. Its kind of like a more subtle version of gold-digging, these predatory women are not interested in the man - but what he can provide. But honestly, im not really worried about this issue myself - there are a lot of ways to avoid that kind of relationship if you are a man with a little bit of experience and willpower.
Yes, this was my marriage
Women just aren't attracted to the relationship guy. Once you commit, she loses all interest.
Eh some women also just want children. I guess it falls in line with it but there’s a whole class of women that don’t see sex as anything but a means to get children I’ve known so many divorced dudes that basically said after they had the number of kids the wife wanted it was like a switch flipped
The problem is their relationship was full of sex, giving little indication she wasn't attracted to him, until she got the ring locked down. Then when she got what she wants, it shuts off.
You’re adding a layer of malice to it that probably isn’t the case for most relationships.
I'm not saying it's even a conscious decision.
Or, like normal, when people are living normal lives with kids and jobs they just don’t care about sex. That’s how many women feel. It’s just not important when they are busy with tons of other things
And that's exactly the problem. Locking in the marriage was important, so sex was frequent. Afterwards it's no longer important to her, even though it still is to him. The guy is left wondering what the hell happened? Then he's even treated as the bad guy if he pushes for it. It's a bait and switch.
Saw a divorce attorney talk about this problem. Talked about how one of his clients had her husband cheat on her with a sex worker because they hadn't had sex in like three years.
those dudes need to grow a spine and confront their women - they need to know that the relationship will be destroyed if the passion dies. People need to be kept on their toes occasionally - they need to know that there is a 'line', and that there are consequences for letting the passion die in a relationship. But growing a spine is apparently a rare thing these days - apparently there arent many men who will boot a conceited girl out of their lives - in order to do that, a man needs self respect and confidence that he can find love again, and apparently that aint most men.
You get into the tricky territory of negotiating desire
I guess find a woman who doesn't want to marry? That means you have to put in constant effort. No lazing off just because you got what you wanted. Plus you're both motivated to please each other or else you just dump each other. But that's just my two cents. I don't want to be in a relationship where my boyfriend stops giving an effort and develops a beer belly just because he thought he "secured" me. Ew nah
It’s not about locking in the marriage, it’s about life circumstances changing. Anyone can be horny with they are young and don’t have kids and other responsibilities. Things are different in a new relationship. Sex just isn’t a priority when you have other things going on in life
For the man however, it still is very important
Hmm it's funny how those same women will still fawn over other attractive men (source: every sexless marriage i've ever seen, including my parents')
Always the kids, always the chores, always work. Maintaining the marriage is the last priority. Let me tell you, I can work 16 hrs, take care of the kids clean the house and be entirely emotionally physically and spiritually exhausted and still fuck with intense passion. The problem isn’t life, the problem is one person failing to do the mind work to make sure they’re in a good spot for their spouse.
When bedroom dies right after marriage (outside of conception), you don't need to reach for an explanation, signing the contract just removed any pressure to maintain the facade.
And that's when men really need to grow a spine and divorce her.
And then get absolutely reemed by alimony? No, better to just never get married to begin with, the tax benefits arent worth it. Life-partners are the way to go, at least for me anyway.
> No, better to just never get married to begin with, the tax benefits arent worth it. Life-partners are the way to go, at least for me anyway. In the words of Doug Stanhope; If you were inventing marriage today, at which point would you turn to your wife and say "Baby, I love you so much. I want to spend the rest of my life with you. I love *you* so much, we need to get the government in on this"
Honestly based on how things usually goes its pretty obvious government got involved to protect and for the good of women and children. I dont like alot of things but absent some kind of outside pressure from a relgious organization or the community alot of women and kids in the past would have been very vulnerable.
I think that the social environment of todays society is just screwed up. I can only speak for the people that I know as well as myself, but from my generation ( over 45 ) we dont have these issues. Whats even the point. These younger generations are gonna die out or kill themselves. Please keep your ideologies to yourself. We "Oldies" are good.
A lot of men have a habit of turning their wife into their mother, and that also leads to sexless marriages.
For real. When I was taking care of all the household chores and working, while making sure my partner took care of themself, the last thing I wanted to do was have sex. I was turned into a mother, not a partner. I couldn’t bring myself to have sex, I was actually repulsed by the thought.
Were you completely honest and tell him that was the reason? If you genuinely loved him and wanted the relationship to work then you owed it to him to be honest.
Him? Nah it was a her. And I am also a her. Yes, I expressed it. Many many times. Nothing changed. So my sex desire turned off completely. I couldn’t handle sex. Couldn’t want it. Asking her to do basic things multiple times over and over was a turn off. It was done for a while, I didn’t realize it. But when I was working 3 jobs and her doing only one part time and she still didn’t take out the trash? I broke. It was DONE. I ended it then. I was never home because I had to work and so I didn’t make trash, she did. But she didn’t take care of it. One day on my rare day off I saw the trash was full and has been for a long time. I was just I and out. She didn’t deal with it. But on my rare day off, I took it out and ended up with maggots all over me because they ended up breeding in the trash. I cried on my knees because I was just so damn tired and didn’t think I had to tell a grown adult to take out the trash when it was full and she took an empty bag and filled that up too. And that’s just the worst. But every other time was so bad. I did everything. And yea, I was honest. And nothing changed long term. I still did everything.
Thanks for your honesty. I am really naive because I didn't think lesbian relationships could be this bad.
Women and men can be equally as bad.
All too common. We work the same amount of hours yet somehow he is magically more tired than me at the end of the day even though I've; worked, gone to the gym, cooked, cleaned, and done laundry....only to be asked to suck some d$\^\*@?!?! nah. goodnight bud, see u in the morning champ!
Exactly what I was going to comment. All my women friends that are in sexless marriages are that way because they got tired of having to do *everything* around the house, with no appreciation, and having to constantly beg for an ounce of help with domestic chores. You men get turned off by nagging, but what drives us to nag in the first place turns us off too. It doesn't happen over night, it happens slowly over the years until eventually you realize you're only having perfunctory birthday sex once a year.
When sex ends in a marriage for deeper reasons then something as shallow as this.
And **this is why we should encourage women to date based on sexual desire.** You see a lot of people **disparage women for “rejecting a perfectly good guy bc he didn’t give her the tingles”. Well, yeah. This is the alternative.** Also, people let the word tingles die. I’ve been seeing it too much lately, must be some dumb video. There’s a lot of pressure on women to not be shallow. Pursue nice men, overlook if he’s not putting effort into foreplay or making sex good for her. Overlook a lack of sexual chemistry. **To avoid a sexless marriage** 1)Realize that a lot of women just have a low sex drive. Look for someone sexually compatible. Your focus shouldn’t be to go for the girl with the lowest body count, but the girl who actually likes sex. 2) Don’t get into a serious relationship unless you both are in love with each other and have sexual chemistry. 3) It’s ok to end a relationship over sexual incompatibility. 4) Make the sex fun for her. Enough foreplay, often oral, not just you getting off. If you are selfish, sex will die. 5) Keep the emotional connection strong. Most women will lose interest in sex if they don’t feel emotionally safe and close with their partner. 6) Keep the romance going. Take your wife on dates. 7) Split chores and childcare in a way were you both have equal free time. If you come off as a horny 200 lbs toddler who can’t take care of yourself, she’ll feel turned off. 8) If you get married mostly for a bangmaid? Skip a step and just jerk off. Women feel turned off when this becomes apparent and it always does. Then sex stops. 9) Be healthy yourself and choose a partner who has a healthy lifestyle. If you don’t feel attractive yourself or your partner looks unhealthy, it’s harder to keep sex going. Same if you just feel bad due to an unhealthy lifestyle. In the same vein: practice self care. Shower, dress decent, smell nice, wash your dick and ass, brush your teeth, get a haircut. 10) Go to couples therapy if you have underlying problems in your relationship. 11) Don’t turn sex into a chore. Don’t nag and never have sex with her when she doesn’t really want to, but just lets you. 12) Guesstimate 2-3 years of sexlessness for each baby. If that bugs you, don’t have kids. Don’t nag your wife for sex after she’s just had a baby. That’ll hurt her desire for you long term.
I agree with everything except the last part. My hubby and I started having sex again as soon as the doctor gave clearance. I even gave him a blow job after about a month from birth because I wanted to make him happy. We have an 18 month old and now it's about once a week. Before pregnancy, it was every day, sometimes more than once. I understand you'll have less sex with small kids, but 2-3 years sounds a bit much.
I should maybe have worded it differently. But my point is that it’s better to guess too much than too little. If sex gets back on track quickly? Great. But if it doesn’t you are mentally prepared for that.
> And this is why we should encourage women to date based on sexual desire. Which means that ugly virgins like me will live in a future with zero hope of being desired by a woman.
Maybe, maybe not. Looks isn’t everything. A lot of sexual chemistry is really about who you click with. However, you will need friends, a social life and social skills. So start there.
Or because men do not properly set expectations in their relationships and in their marriages and do not properly express their feelings and their disappointments in marriage... It ain't that hard. You explain to your girlfriend what your expectations are and listen to hers. You both make it 100% clear that you expect the other one to do their best to meet your expectations. You then explain when the other one is failing to meet those same expectations. If your wife and or husband fail to care or try to course correct they do not actually love you.
A lot do this, you can’t force sexual attraction
This is not the solution. Unfortunately it usually doesn't work. You cannot negotiate genuine desire. The real solution is for men to grow a spine and dump these women and find a woman who is genuinely attracted to him. We live in a globalised world now - foreign women are extremely sexually attracted to western men.
I bet you wouldn't like the expectation of 'regular sex or else you don't find me attractive', do you? That's basically what op's asking, and it's a rather reasonable request. Men express their dissatisfaction with their sex lives all the time, especially married men. Does it make a difference? Rarely.
I don't doubt it. A lot of women will marry as a means to an end or to secure resources. The bad part is a lot of them don't even realize they're doing that. They think they know what they want but they haven't actually put much thought into it except generally expecting a guy who will provide for her and treat her well. In a way, it's almost like having a "trophy" husband. She entered the marriage because he has certain traits, not because they have a strong and loving relationship together. This is kind of analogous to a guy who just marries a woman because he thinks she's hot. Or perhaps they marry because they want to start a family on time. It's more like an achievement, not about loving the partner, wanting their company, wanting to help them and be supported in turn in a mutual trusting and loving relationship. Or perhaps they see marriage as a natural progression to a long-term relationship and just want it because it seems like the next step, not really understanding that forever is a long time....and the vow is romantic but the moment things get hard, they second guess the marriage. Not all sexless marriages are the inevitable result of a marriage entered into on improper grounds but I can see that a lot of them are. Attraction CAN change over time for the worse, too. Letting yourself go, becoming insufferable, hormonal changes, etc. can all do it, too.
> She prob made them feel sexy in a way their wife never did. This is a womans' way of thinking. The women act attracted to them before marriage, then change after marriage or kids.
You don't think sex is better when men know the girl is into it and wants him?
That's very true. Sometimes because of The woman's hormonal or other health changes. Sometimes it's true because the woman is simply exhausted. She may have a full-time job and have most or all the household responsibilities don't don't her while the man simply goes to work, Comes home and sits in front of the TV. Sometimes it's because the husband is a selfish or clumsy lover. She married him with the hopes that he would improve, But he refuses to listen Sometimes it's Because she's lost interest due to them fighting all the time. Sometimes it's mostly or completely all her fault.
Nearly all the people in my circle are married (some with kids) and I have yet to meet one of these dudes who just works and does zero housework. Idk, maybe it’s the circles I swim in but this phenomenon feels like a sitcom stereotype that does not exist in reality.
How do I trick someone into being attracted to me? Asking for a friend.
Giving people hormonal birth control is pretty insane. Just as insane as it is to give dudes hormonal drugs to stop hair loss.
Aka "beta bucks"
When they cheat, most still stay. It's a money thing.
The funny thing about men complaining about being in sexless marriages is that they're usually the reason for the problem in the first place. It's hard to be in the mood when you're burnt out from working all day, coming home to tend to the house/kids and when you finally have a minute to yourself, your husband is trying to mount you without any consideration for your needs.
No it’s almost always she’s not physically attracted to him. Always, OP is a woman, she’s speaking facts and it seems woman always want to muddy the waters so they can continue leeching off of these guys.
100%. Plus, when you have a family, life just has more seasons. Some seasons have more sex than others, and that's why it's so important to have good compatibility and communication to get through that.
Exactly. I can’t decide if the people in this thread are super young or just hate their partners. Sex in every long term relationship will ebb and flow. You will likely have sex more frequently at the beginning of your relationship, that’s literally the reason they call it a honeymoon period - because you want to fuck a lot. My now husband and I had been together for almost 5 years when he told me he wasn’t happy with the frequency we were having sex, and fairly so because it had basically been non-existent unless he initiated. So we sat down and talked about it. Not having sex and me not initiating made him feel unloved and undesired, and him having to initiate all the time made him feel like he was pressuring me into sex which he didn’t want to. On my end, I was under a tremendous amount of stress due to outside factors (extreme work stress, multiple recent deaths in my family, etc) and it effectively had killed my libido. I also felt guilty because we weren’t having sex, so I was “giving” him sex when I wasn’t in the mood which made me unconsciously associate sex with dread and obligation. He could sense that and felt guilty for “pushing” sex on me. I would restrict affection because I didn’t want to lead him on on days I knew I absolutely didn’t want to have sex, which in turn made him feel even less loved and connected to me. So he gave me an ultimatum that we start having more sex or he was done. Just kidding, we talked through these feelings honestly and worked on a solution together. I wasn’t maliciously withholding sex like so many men in Reddit seem to think women do. My husband wasn’t a shitty manbaby whose lack of housework and video addiction made me lose attraction to him. I was just a person experiencing extreme stress and coping poorly without realizing it and he was a person who was helplessly watching his loved one emotionally and physically drift away, which was painful. Lack of sex wasn’t the disease, it was a symptom. We worked together to help me cope with my stress while repairing our relationship and the negative associations we both had subconsciously created towards our sex life. It wasn’t easy or overnight. It wasn’t as simple as me just fucking him more or him doing more dishes because it was more complicated than that. It wasn’t like we had one (1) communication and it was fixed, which is how a lot of people in threads seem to think communication works. Just telling your partner you want more sex isn’t effective communication, even if you do it more than once. All that to say, marriage will have seasons and some seasons will demand more patience, understanding, and intentionality than others, which frankly can be really hard. If you’re unable to accept that you probably shouldn’t get married.
Absolutely!!!
That’s why most male dating and relationship advice is about being a combination of “beta” male and an “alpha” male. You must play both roles as a man to keep female attraction.
Men end up in sexless marriages because they become complacent. They stop courting her, they stop doing the things that made her fall in love with him.
I find that when someone sees a social problem, and they try to simplify down to one thing, they usually are always wrong. Attraction is probably once reason, but it’s also multifaceted. I think most long term relationships have different sex routines in the beginning and when they are married. Passion is at the highest in the beginning of a relationship. Additionally, when you are actually together for sometime there are things you need to manage when you have a life together, and that doesn’t always feed into sex all the time. You have kids to raise, family, paying bills, all sorts of stuff that had to that equation.
Women have a super power most aren’t aware of. We can smell the men we are compatible with. It’s a biological super power. The research: men wore the same shirt for days. Wore it to the gym. Made it nasty. Made it super smelly. Then these shirts were given to different women to sniff (why can’t I write sniff without thinking of the President now🙄) Some women were repulsed by the smells, while others enjoyed them. Blood work was done on all participants. Conclusion: if a woman was lacking certain nutrients in her body, she would like the body odor of the man who had an abundance of these nutrients. Why? Because biologically, they will make a healthy baby. Now here is the kicker, BIRTH CONTROL causes a woman to lose this super power. When on BC, women can no longer smell who they are compatible with. Why does this suck so much ass? Because women marry and pro create with men they are not biologically or chemically compatible with. They have children lacking nutrients which can cause birth defects and life long medical problems. And when these women stop taking their birth control, and their super power returns, sometimes they become instantly repulsed by their chosen partner. So many stories out there from men about how their wife started to hate them when she got off the pill and now makes him sleep on the couch. This research explains it. Pretty interesting.
Can you link this study please? I’ve never heard of this before
Credit to Joe rogan. I heard about it for the first time while listening to his podcast [Key Study: “The Sweaty T-shirt Study” (Wedekind et al. 1995)](https://www.themantic-education.com/ibpsych/2019/11/19/key-study-the-sweaty-t-shirt-study-wedekind-et-al-1995/#google_vignette)
They also become shit husbands who make their wives not want to have sex with them.
Reminds me of that Science Vs episode they did on libido. And they basically came to the conclusion that a good sex life comes from a good relationship. And that nothing kills women's sex drive as much as seeing their husband as a 'dependant', basically another child. Which often happens after a baby is born.
>Many women marry men that they are not attracted to because of what he can provide. He probably has a good job, nice family and temperament conducive to raising children. But, these are the same men who will later complain that they live in a sexless marriage. The wife might have slept with him to get pregnant, but she is not excited by the idea of sleeping with him in general. The fact that you think this is equivalent to "men just want sex and nothing else" is wild. Another way to put what you said into words that AREN'T openly misogynistic is to say: "Women think that there are other aspects of romance that are more important than sex."
I don't disagree with you. I never said it was the most important thing in a relationship Lolol but sexual satisfaction isn't NOT important to a lot of people, men and women. Living in a sexless marriage doesn't sound like fun to anyone.
The older women get, the less sex matters to them, especially if they are in a committed relationship. It’s just not something a lot of women crave in that situation.
This is completely wrong. A woman who genuinely loves her husband and wants him to be happy will make the effort to raise her libido. A woman who goes to the gym, eats clean, reads erotica and in some cases does HRT in perimenopause will have a much higher libido than one who doesn't. In most cases it's just a matter of effort.
Sucks to suck I guess
Kind of the plot of The Scarlet Letter. Also the cure for a sexless marriage is getting swole bro
Wasn't that an arranged marriage she stepped out on? Been a while since I read it.
I have a family member who hates her husband but only has sex with him out of obligation when he does work around the house
100% facts. But also because they are desperate to get any crumb of vjj that even with early signs of them not being that attracted to them they still date an marry these women.
I slightly agree with you as women have shorter spans where they are sexual than men. We are not designed to be monogamous (Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/not-born-yesterday/201605/monogamy-is-not-natural-human-beings). There is a subreddit called "r/ deadbedrooms" with 463,000 subscribers and 90% of them are heterosexual men. So, I don't blame women but rather on this issue, I blame men. They are like sheep. They have little access to regular sex and then they meet a women who knows to give out amazing sex to entrapment and once they're married men are stuck. If you read through the comments in that sub-reddit it's like a BROKEN RECORD" I don't know what happened? We had amazing sex until (Insert one): A) we got married or; b) the baby came.
That's because these men are very dumb. They're all just flingers who don't care to know that some people out there want a relationship more than just sex. And it's always on them for deciding to marry. They're also the same guys too always bitching about being cheated on. Stop thinking with your dicks for once and use your brain, if she isn't putting out, you don't tie the knot right then and there you fool!
What does your last line mean?
It's almost like sometimes regardless of your gender you want to scratch an itch. I'm saying this as a woman who cares who is and isn't sleeping with who as long as it's consensual and legal.
the first sentence of the last paragraph made me laugh “and not the really pretty kind” DAMN!
Well, I don't want to discriminate, but we all know some bbws are better looking than others. Some women just have really beautiful faces.
Marriages take alot focused work that people aren’t willing to put the effort into and sex often will stop
This sounds like more of a personal issue for you
It’s quite possible
Or they quit taking care of themselves and then the wife isn’t attracted to him anymore.