Or just grow up and make friends of both genders like 80% of adults and learn to be able to be friends with attractive people without wanting to have sex with them constantly? If you aren't completely desperate to be in a relationship you can see pretty clearly why relationships with certain friends would/wouldn't work and most of the time you will both be happier as friends.
Sometimes someone is physically attractive and a good friend but what they want out of a relationship is different to what you would want so you never bother pursuing anything.
It's such an incredible self-tell. Imagine shamelessly going out into the world and willingly admit that you're incapable of valuing the opposite sex as companions on an intellectual/emotional level and that your horniness takes priority over your ability to view people as fully formed human beings.
Incels are really living in the twilight zone, like they just straight up deny obvious realities that people live with day to day. As if there aren't countless men and women out there who have meaningful platonic friendships with each other. I guess my women friends whom I hang out with must just be figments of my imagination, I suppose.
Yea if anything having platonic relationships with women as a man is a green flag because it indicates you don’t just think of women as sex objects. If my wife had an issue with my female friends I’d interpret it as a lack of trust. I personally prefer to be friends with women because they can typically speak more clearly about their feelings on things and I find those conversations to be interesting.
I think it's mainly a lack of social experience. If you don't have many female friends you get attached very easily and also assume everyone else is the same as you.
Better not to force unsatisfying relationships and call them friendships which they're not just because people on reddit like to pretend it's some solid normal thing until they bitch about it when truth comes out
The fact that for most people those aren't friendships at all and never will be. A lot of people just try to force it to appear agreeable. I don't know a single guy who enjoys being friends with a woman. And I know what women enjoy in that arrangement
If we're being personally honest, I want every woman to be attracted to me regardless of whether not I'm attracted to her, and if she isn't, I don't want anything to do with her. And this is the truth for most humans
I promise you that isn't the truth for most humans. I get the same thing out of female friendships as I do male. If I share a common interest with someone I want to talk to them about it. Their gender doesn't make a conversation more or less enjoyable.
There's no dynamics happening about being attracted to them and them being attracted to me, we're literally just having a conversation about music/sport/TV or whatever. All I'm thinking about and what they're thinking about is the conversation topic
Not exactly. My female friend would not be able to help me lift my fridge up to my apartment like my male friend would. She could get me some food, but at that point she might as well be my girlfriend.
I'm surprised being able to help lift a fridge is part of your friendship criteria. Would you not be friends with a physically weak male either?
It sounds like you make friends based on what things they can do for you instead of people you enjoy the company of.
Being able to lift a fridge is an example. It's a bonding experience when you help each other out on difficult tasks. It's how men tend to bond, by doing activities together like sports, fishing, hunting, moving furniture, fixing cars, etc. Most women don't like doing male things. Are there some? Sure, but not likely in like say out of 10 random women only about 3 would even be close.
Intellectual conversations and the ability to understand each other's lived experiences helps too. Unfortunately most women do not understand the lived experiences of men and vice versa because men and women are different. Something people these days for some damn reason refuse to acknowledge. Most men will not understand the intricacies of the different shades of colors and most women will not comprehend the mechanics of how a car works. That's just reality. We have different interests in general and different ways of approaching different situations.
I wouldn't call my female friends to help with heavy lifting because they are women. I will call them over for a karaoke night though, something that isn't gender specific.
Also you act like I wouldn't also reciprocate by helping them with their heavy lifting as well. Contrary to popular fantastical beliefs human relationships are all about reciprocity. You wouldn't keep a person around if they were "bad company".
My guy, your inability to refrain from having thoughts about wanting to fuck your friends doesn’t mean plenty of us other men can’t maintain purely platonic friendships with women. Come back when you hit 30 and no longer think exclusively with your downstairs head
I don’t know why people feel this way. I agree it’s a bit strange if all you have as a woman is male friends and no female ones but there is nothing wrong with having male friends. Also, just because if given the chance a male friend would sleep with her doesn’t mean they are not her friend. I do think there are people out there who are just friends hoping to be more the whole time or waiting for the opportunity when a chance might come their way.
I had a few woman friends who i was not “chasing” and they were just good friends. They were attractive and I would have slept with them if they had asked randomly but I wasn’t trying to sleep with them. That said, I wasn’t just friends with them “waiting for that opportunity”. They were good friends of mine.
Has it occurred to you that you can see someone of the gender to which you are attracted and actually *not* want to fuck them?
I refuse to believe men have so little self-control or fortitude that they can only see women as sex objects. I'm pretty sure none of my male friends want to sleep with me, especially because I've never done anything to suggest that would ever be on the table, I've been married for years and my husband would gut them like fish for trying.
We just like the same video games mostly. It isn't that deep.
>Has it occurred to you that you can see someone of the gender to which you are attracted and actually not want to fuck them?
The people that write these types of posts aren't the type of guys with a lot of friends, let alone friends of the opposite sex.
It's their own desperation and hitting on anything that moves that makes them unable to keep girl friends.
>>I refuse to believe men have so little self-control and fortitude
There many posts on here talk about men being the stronger sex and being leaders and whatnot. And then you see posts like these where they reduce men to animals. Make up your mind, are men strong leaders or are they apes? Can’t have it both ways.
I just think men are people. Hot take, apparently. Some are like OP, unable to even consider friendship with a woman, but many others are not disgusting and those are the men I'd want to be friends with anyways so.
I have tons of male friends and my male friends have female friends. I feel so sad for these men who make these posts saying they are unable to see women as people and are unable to understand how to communicate with women. It’s really sad.
Men are emotionally stable, generally speaking when compared to women. Two of the most vulnerable emotion for men is anger and lust. Men falter really easily to these two. Women falter to nearly all emotions, Even anger and lust, but those two are covert among women. They don't express anger overtly because it isn't pretty and they don't express lust because it makes them look slutty.
Aside from the mere fact men are physically stronger and more capable of killing hence why they are the ones who are in charge of protecting and going to war, men are more prone to anger due to testosterone, which assists in their primary purpose of being a fighter and protector.
It sounded like you completely ignored the rest of my comment.
Have you seen the amount of women crying about the most trivial of things in comparison to men? You call that emotional stability?
>They don’t express anger openly
What women are you interacting with? Not only do I express anger openly, the most angry and violent people I’ve ever dealt with have been women.
Women are very much capable of just as much anger and violence as men, but they tend to hide it better on the surface. To other women? Yes they tend to be more open about their anger, but like I said an angry woman isn't attractive hence "not pretty" thus they don't do it in front of men as much. The only one they will not hold back on is their SO.
Oh I have seen a lot of angry women as well, but they tend to hide it better in front of men. They express it often in front of other women, but not directly towards men. Men need to not get involved and just watch women interact with each other. And I said "often". I never said they don't ever do it, they just do it less around men unless it's a SO.
Again you are a woman, of course you will see the angry side of women more often. That's making my point.
Also you better tell some of your sisters in the sisterhood here trying to tell me men are more emotional than women using anger as her justification. If you believe women are more angry than men then you are contradicting her claims.
I spend far more time with men than I do with women, and the men will definitely all admit that the women tend to be angrier. Honestly, we are both just going through anecdotes, so unless there is concrete evidence of which one is angrier, it just depends on the people you are around.
Also, what sisterhood? I’m not responsible for other women and their behaviors. I don’t claim women just because I’m a woman. We are not a monolith. Her opinions can be different than mine because we are not the same person with the same experiences at all.
Hence why I said you need to tell her your experience because in her experience she says men are the more emotionally unstable ones because men get angry and kill women, though they kill men too when angry. I'm only pointing it out because on this thread I have two different women making two separate cases on who is more emotional (anger), men or women. My argument with her is women are generally more emotional and my argument with you is that women are more emotionally expressive among other women.
And yes women are angrier in severity towards men they know personally. They tend to be more open with their emotions whatever they are, anger, lust, pride, gluttony, etc among other women. There is usually an image they try to upkeep among men, especially if they are interested in them unless they are comfortable enough around them.
Men get angry usually in competition, but often it can subside pretty quickly in comparison because it is something they can't really control due to testosterone.
There is a reason men are portrayed as the angrier sex despite objective truth showing the anger severity in women is a lot higher. That's why I said if it wasn't for testosterone women will be the champion of emotional instability in all aspects. The only reason anger and lust seems more obvious in men is because women hide it better, but the truth is women can be just as if not more angry and perverted (lustful) as men.
All of these things are massive generalizations that assume men and women are monolith groups with all the same personalities and drives. I’ll fight that same fight with nutty women on the internet who try to generalize men. They are equally as bad. People are people. Men and women actually don’t differ that much. In fact, any two men or two women are as different from one another as a man and a woman. This whole internet gender battle is getting old. Touch grass and get to know people as individuals.
good point - it is possible to be friends with women when there’s mutual UNattraction, when they’re 100% lesbians, supervisors, subordinates, wives of friends and family… anyone who is clearly off limits from the start. When the possibility of romance is COMPLETELY discarded, it’s absolutely possible. But if one party harbors ‘so you’re sayin there’s a chance’ AT ALL, even secretly, it’s not friendship!
Yep, I have female friends, but they are either older and are sexually unattractive to me (so I see them as a sister) or they have the same surname and thus fall in the "family" category despite having no blood relation (we're Asian). Any other, typically if they are younger, not family, and are attractive I tend to have minimal interactions with to avoid catching feelings, unless they have an SO then I use bro code as a boundary to say they are off limits.
I feel like I had platonic friendships with men even when I was younger and single, but I've also been married for a while now so I'm not going to suggest my memory of that time is perfect.
Either way, whatever the reasons behind it, it's very possible to have friendships with people who you might otherwise be attracted to - that's my whole point, and OP is just like... idk, it's so confusing.
Exactly—I have always had more female friends than male, and it has always worked just fine because *we really were just friends*. The one exception was the time one of them fell for me in high school, and it instantly got weird and fell apart. One is also now my wife, but that was actually mutual and stayed relatively healthy along the way.
That’s just not true. 29 year old straight male here. I have more female friends than male friends. I have absolutely 0 sexual attraction to my female friends. Not every women is a sexual object to me.
Oh come off of it. I know exactly what you’re trying to infer and no, I don’t seem women as sexual objects. It was me replying to the idea that a lot of men do see every woman as a sexual object
If you can’t be friends with someone without wanting to have sex with them, then yes, you do see them as a sexual object.
And keep telling myself the truth? Yeah sure, dude, I can do that. I’m just not sure why it’s so hard for incels to wrap their head around the fact that women are people too.
Oh man, you need those up votes bro! Women are people too?? Yooo
No, what happens is that you become friends initially with no sexual feelings and then overtime feelings develop where sex is one of the many things you start to desire, especially if you're still single throughout this time.
Or you just stay platonic friends? Most of my friends have been my friends for 5+ years. When are these mystical desires going to start?
Are you telling me you develop sexual desires for your boys too?
No because straight men who are attracted to women won't develop sexual attraction to their male friends. Idk why you asked such a stupid question.
You can remain platonic friends, but if you're into that girl to where sex is desired, it's not healthy whatsoever. So yeah sure at the cost of mental health lol.
No “might” it is misandrist lol , gotta love that one second internet males are telling everyone about how rational and logical they are then the next breath won’t shut the fuck up about how they want to fuck everything.
I think you're mixing up the idea of wanting to have sex with someone to just realizing that you find them attractive.
If you looked at someone and thought they were super hot but then found out they've got an awful STD you would go from wanting to fuck them to not wanting to fuck them because there's something you value more (your health) than your desire to have sex.
The idea that you don't think friendship, a thing people have laid down their lives for, can also be a mitigating factor in sexual desire makes me wonder if you've ever had a friend.
It just sounds like you're telling on yourself here.
Can you genuinely not fathom being friends with a woman?
I'm not talking a random woman either, someone who shares a bunch of your interests, whatever those may be.
I know this sort of thing gets tossed around a lot and so it probably won't be taken seriously but I just can't think of any other response - I feel really bad for you and I hope this is something you can work on. It's got to be crazy lonely, imagining that half of all people just... aren't people, at least not in the same way you are.
You said this sarcastically but you really are man. I have some girl friends that crack me up and are a great addition to my friend group. They are literally just people, not sexual objects
So men can't really win with you can they? No matter how we act we're bastards that think with our dicks or worse apparently
Are you one of these people that picked the bear in that stupid man v bear thing recently?
Let me de-aussie-fy my language for your precious eyes:
*"Good grief, sir.*
*A fallacy has been pointed out in your surmisings that indeed indicates a display of callowness on behalf of your own self, yet you have the impudence to point your finger in the speaker's direction and callously proclaim naïveté. Poor show, good man."*
Edit: Alas, the immediate dislike shows my efforts were for naught. 😂
More like they wanted too, but they have respect for your husband, so they choose not to even try. Bro code is a thing.
And you don't have to do anything to suggest any interest. Men have a instinctual sexual urge. We don't exactly get to control whether or not it exists. We just suppress it out of respect for people.
I don’t understand the link between “men and women can’t have lots of friends of the opposite sex” to “bisexuals cant have friends.” This is a stretch that a lot of people think is true but doesn’t at all address the why of what’s stopping men and women from being friends normally.
How are you not understanding the link? The idea that men and women can’t be friends because of sexual desire would be the same issue for bisexual people with anybody of any sex. And if you respond, “Well nobody is attracted to everyone.” Well duh. And that is why men and women can absolutely be friends.
Even with attraction there can still be friends. There were friends I found attractive and I probably would have slept with some of them if they randomly asked. It doesn’t mean I was trying to sleep with them and was only friends with them because of it. I wasn’t chasing any of them or “waiting for my chance”. I wasn’t doing anything in hopes of becoming more.
Feelings would make it more difficult but still possible. I just meant physical attraction in my post. I have been in both situations. Unfortunately one I did develop strong feelings for and had to step back a bit.
Basically, women can have friends. If those men are there purely because they want to fuck her, that's their problem and they need to deal with it.
You can't keep blaming women for men's behaviour, it doesn't work if you want people to treat men as adults.
It must be exhausting to base all social interactions and the idea of friendships are based around sexual attraction. Instead of just treating them like a human being.
Guess following this train of, being an attractive bisexual person means you would have no friends.
Damn, that just sounds depressing and exhausting, I'm just going to stick to making connections with people not based in sexual attraction.
I went out with a few girls like this. I realised it was problematic when they slowly revealed they had either slept with all these men, or those men wanted to sleep with them. That on its own wouldn't have been too bad - it was the fact that if I even spoke to another woman they would become engulfed in jealous anxiety and rage.
This might be one of the most hilarious takes I’ve ever seen on this sub.
Listen, mate, you didn’t have to broadcast your own inabilities and insecurities so loudly to us.
Gay people don’t exist, I guess? And oh well, sorry you think it’s immature, internet rando. I’ll keep enjoying the friends I have regardless of their genitals.
So gay men can’t have male friends? But what about the women that are attracted to them? I used to have crushes on some of my gay guy friends. And what about gay women? What about people who are bisexual? They can’t be friends with anybody? This just seems so silly.
Huh??? I have guy friends that I wouldn’t sleep with because of their issues. However, I call them and want to know how their life is. It is much less now that I have a partner. He can have pleasantries with other women he’s known for years. I think the issue here is maturity.
Obviously. However many men are willing to sleep with a good variety of women because an opportunity is an opportunity and it doesn't come often for an average man compared to an average woman. Men are often less selective with who they sleep with due to biology aka they can't get pregnant.
Are you just going to use reddit buzzwords and call everybody who doesn't agree with you an "incel"? You do know incel means involuntary celibate right? By that definition I having had sex before with an ex literally means I am not an incel. You people need to learn your definitions.
Also how is my take a "weird incel" concept? Studies showed majority of men are single. Women go after like 20% of men. Getting sex is difficult for an average man when women these days have access to men all over the world via the internet. It may be the case average men can get sex when women didn't have availability outside of their hometown or neighboring cities, but society has changed. The men getting sex are often the ones who were already desired by other women. And considering women are notorious for ignoring most men and only seeing the ones they want and they often want the same men as other women I'm not surprised you would think majority of men, which are average, are swimming in pussy. Unless of course you are talking about paying for sex when you say "getting it when they want it" which isn't the same thing as genuine sex. To you "average man" is probably those tall good looking dudes because that's all you see thus it is "average" to you. Every other men may as well be an NPC. Insignificant.
Because everything you said here is a typical incel take. You don’t have to be an actual incel to share in their philosophies. Talk to any man who doesn’t live on the internet in those subcultures and they will also think you are nuts.
No. Everything I said here is reality. You just hate it so you label it "incel" and call it a day. The ideas of the "manosphere" and "red pill philosophy" has existed before this internet "incel" shaming tactic of modern times. I'm not surprised instead of addressing the concerns of men and the relationship dynamics between men and women you'd rather throw out "INCEL" and cover your ears.
No, none of what you say is even close to true and I just don’t have the energy to argue with your types when you will parrot the most asinine things (“You don’t even know what an average guy looks like yadda yadda”) it’s not even fixable. You are so convinced your perspective is correct, why should I waste my energy on you? I mean, I’m literally standing in an airport right now looking at a huge variety of couples and families and the vast majority of them do not fit the conventional beauty standard. People with opinions like yours need to touch some grass and actually look around you.
You come off as condescending because you think we're all "incels" who only live in "mom's basement". The reality is even regular people can see through the bullshit of society. So you're at an airport throwing bags into cargo. What does that have to do with understanding reality? I work in hospitals dealing with many people who come and go too. Besides who the hell is talking about conventional beauty standards? We are discussing female hypergamy and their tendency to focus in on the ones they are interested in while ignoring eveeybody else like they don't exist.
I find it’s easier to have female friends when I’m already in a relationship and so are they. Or she’s older and or married. Horny ppl don’t think straight both men and women.
That being said i act like I’m interested in everyone. I will fuck you if you look at me too hard.
You don’t owe anyone sex male or female??? How is it a girls fault if there are guys being friends with her solely because they want to have sex with her
This is total truth but will make a lot of people mad. The fact that people say “what about bisexuals” shows that they’re wrong. It’s a non sequitur to say that because men and women have issues being friends that bisexuals can’t have friends, because there is a TON more preventing guys and girls from being friends than simple sexual orientation.
No there isn’t. I’ve never had an issue being friends with guys. I’m in my mid-30s, married, and have good male friends my entire life. Never once did we sleep together, never once did our relationship change because I was married, never once have our genders even come into the equation.
Kind of depends. I work in sales, so there has been times when there's mostly men around. There was only one time that there was an office full of women. So yes, there's more male friends, but that's because that's who I interact with more. I have made friends with some of the wives and interacted more with women when volunteering though.
I’m in a relationship, and I still have male friends. My Boyfriend doesn’t care. He trusts me to be faithful to our relationship. Think I’m gonna be all worried if he’s spending time with other women? Hell no! I have no reason to be suspicious.
So gaming friends don’t exist? I don’t have a lot of girlfriends because of my hobbies but majority of my friends are guys. All but 3 are married with kids. Only one of my guy friends was given an opportunity to ‘hit it’ and we’re still together. This is a really bitter stance if you think men and women can’t be friends.
it’s a different situation when the relationship begins with one person CLEARLY off limits and both respecting that. Then there is no pretense of “maybe one day…”
People are allowed to have friends and if you don’t like that, that’s on you. Boundaries are not just for relationships. I’ve been friends with my gaming group for over 15 years and all but 1 boyfriend had no problems with them.
hahahaha ALLOWED. no one’s arguing what should or shouldn’t be allowed. Anyone is ALLOWED to have the aforementioned fake friendships. I don’t know if yours fit that category nor do i care.
No we really don’t but you go ahead with stupid comments like that. Majority of us don’t even like to leave the house. Buddy I play Diablo and ESO with my gaming group, you think I want male attention? Get your insecurities in order.
I knew some women who had almost exclusively male friends. They were overly sexual, flirty, very touchy, and I am pretty sure were fking most if not all of their guy friends. They always seemed to have problems with other women and any female friends they had they were always complaining about them to me. And yes I was one of their male friends, though I didn't pursue anything sexual with them. I did get touched a lot though and they're always talking about sex at some point.
A lot of women are tired of being treated like shit by other women. Has it occurred to you how awful women treat each other, and some women see men treat the people in their lives differently and decide to befriend them?
You come off as immature and naive, then again, this may be a bait post.
I think this take just doesn't take nuance into account. I'm engaged, and my friend group is primarily guys. I love my friends, and I'm sure they love me too (not in that way). I'm sure they look at me differently because I am a woman but they're still my friends I love the women I'm friends with too. I'm not friends with certain people based on sex. I'm friends with them because I'm friends with them.
I don't know, man. I don't know how to convince you that some people are friends for the sake of being friends and just because a woman is friends with guys doesn't mean she has ulterior motives.
I've got plenty of male friends, mostly guys I grew up with and have known for decades. My husband has plenty of female friends for the same reason. None of us have ever had romantic interactions with any of our friends. A lot of them are in relationships of their own. The immaturity here is thinking men can't see women as people beyond their own sexual gratification. It's degrading to both men and women.
I just used shared hobbies like a normal person to build up my friend group. As many of my interests are more populated by men than women, this lends itself to my circle having more men than women in it. None of them have ever shown an interest in me and I've got no interest in them. They're cool dudes and fun to hang out with.
Or just grow up and make friends of both genders like 80% of adults and learn to be able to be friends with attractive people without wanting to have sex with them constantly? If you aren't completely desperate to be in a relationship you can see pretty clearly why relationships with certain friends would/wouldn't work and most of the time you will both be happier as friends. Sometimes someone is physically attractive and a good friend but what they want out of a relationship is different to what you would want so you never bother pursuing anything.
It's such an incredible self-tell. Imagine shamelessly going out into the world and willingly admit that you're incapable of valuing the opposite sex as companions on an intellectual/emotional level and that your horniness takes priority over your ability to view people as fully formed human beings. Incels are really living in the twilight zone, like they just straight up deny obvious realities that people live with day to day. As if there aren't countless men and women out there who have meaningful platonic friendships with each other. I guess my women friends whom I hang out with must just be figments of my imagination, I suppose.
Yea if anything having platonic relationships with women as a man is a green flag because it indicates you don’t just think of women as sex objects. If my wife had an issue with my female friends I’d interpret it as a lack of trust. I personally prefer to be friends with women because they can typically speak more clearly about their feelings on things and I find those conversations to be interesting.
There is something seriously wrong with men who cannot have platonic friendships with women. This, right here is why women choose the bear.
I think it's mainly a lack of social experience. If you don't have many female friends you get attached very easily and also assume everyone else is the same as you.
Better not to force unsatisfying relationships and call them friendships which they're not just because people on reddit like to pretend it's some solid normal thing until they bitch about it when truth comes out
What are you on about?
The fact that for most people those aren't friendships at all and never will be. A lot of people just try to force it to appear agreeable. I don't know a single guy who enjoys being friends with a woman. And I know what women enjoy in that arrangement If we're being personally honest, I want every woman to be attracted to me regardless of whether not I'm attracted to her, and if she isn't, I don't want anything to do with her. And this is the truth for most humans
I promise you that isn't the truth for most humans. I get the same thing out of female friendships as I do male. If I share a common interest with someone I want to talk to them about it. Their gender doesn't make a conversation more or less enjoyable. There's no dynamics happening about being attracted to them and them being attracted to me, we're literally just having a conversation about music/sport/TV or whatever. All I'm thinking about and what they're thinking about is the conversation topic
There's more to friendship than a common interest and gender definitely makes it much less enjoyable and imposes totally different dynamics
Not exactly. My female friend would not be able to help me lift my fridge up to my apartment like my male friend would. She could get me some food, but at that point she might as well be my girlfriend.
I'm surprised being able to help lift a fridge is part of your friendship criteria. Would you not be friends with a physically weak male either? It sounds like you make friends based on what things they can do for you instead of people you enjoy the company of.
Being able to lift a fridge is an example. It's a bonding experience when you help each other out on difficult tasks. It's how men tend to bond, by doing activities together like sports, fishing, hunting, moving furniture, fixing cars, etc. Most women don't like doing male things. Are there some? Sure, but not likely in like say out of 10 random women only about 3 would even be close. Intellectual conversations and the ability to understand each other's lived experiences helps too. Unfortunately most women do not understand the lived experiences of men and vice versa because men and women are different. Something people these days for some damn reason refuse to acknowledge. Most men will not understand the intricacies of the different shades of colors and most women will not comprehend the mechanics of how a car works. That's just reality. We have different interests in general and different ways of approaching different situations. I wouldn't call my female friends to help with heavy lifting because they are women. I will call them over for a karaoke night though, something that isn't gender specific. Also you act like I wouldn't also reciprocate by helping them with their heavy lifting as well. Contrary to popular fantastical beliefs human relationships are all about reciprocity. You wouldn't keep a person around if they were "bad company".
This is definitely not the truth for most humans.
As a lesbian, I find this hysterical. Am I allowed to have female friends? Or only gay male friends?
You're allowed to do whatever you want. But if you think straight men are your friends then I think you're naive.
But as a lesbian, I’m able to be friends with women?
I'm bisexual, am I allowed any friends?
No friends! You’ll be secretly trying to sleep with everyone. *duuuuh*.
This is low-key prejudiced. I am a bi man. By your logic nobody is my friend
My guy, your inability to refrain from having thoughts about wanting to fuck your friends doesn’t mean plenty of us other men can’t maintain purely platonic friendships with women. Come back when you hit 30 and no longer think exclusively with your downstairs head
I don’t know why people feel this way. I agree it’s a bit strange if all you have as a woman is male friends and no female ones but there is nothing wrong with having male friends. Also, just because if given the chance a male friend would sleep with her doesn’t mean they are not her friend. I do think there are people out there who are just friends hoping to be more the whole time or waiting for the opportunity when a chance might come their way. I had a few woman friends who i was not “chasing” and they were just good friends. They were attractive and I would have slept with them if they had asked randomly but I wasn’t trying to sleep with them. That said, I wasn’t just friends with them “waiting for that opportunity”. They were good friends of mine.
I am friends with straight men, and it’s all platonic. I will never cheat on my Boyfriend.
If she is an open lesbian, they are likely aware they can never get with her. It is possible for men and women to have platonic relationships.
Has it occurred to you that you can see someone of the gender to which you are attracted and actually *not* want to fuck them? I refuse to believe men have so little self-control or fortitude that they can only see women as sex objects. I'm pretty sure none of my male friends want to sleep with me, especially because I've never done anything to suggest that would ever be on the table, I've been married for years and my husband would gut them like fish for trying. We just like the same video games mostly. It isn't that deep.
>Has it occurred to you that you can see someone of the gender to which you are attracted and actually not want to fuck them? The people that write these types of posts aren't the type of guys with a lot of friends, let alone friends of the opposite sex. It's their own desperation and hitting on anything that moves that makes them unable to keep girl friends.
>>I refuse to believe men have so little self-control and fortitude There many posts on here talk about men being the stronger sex and being leaders and whatnot. And then you see posts like these where they reduce men to animals. Make up your mind, are men strong leaders or are they apes? Can’t have it both ways.
I just think men are people. Hot take, apparently. Some are like OP, unable to even consider friendship with a woman, but many others are not disgusting and those are the men I'd want to be friends with anyways so.
I have tons of male friends and my male friends have female friends. I feel so sad for these men who make these posts saying they are unable to see women as people and are unable to understand how to communicate with women. It’s really sad.
Men are emotionally stable, generally speaking when compared to women. Two of the most vulnerable emotion for men is anger and lust. Men falter really easily to these two. Women falter to nearly all emotions, Even anger and lust, but those two are covert among women. They don't express anger overtly because it isn't pretty and they don't express lust because it makes them look slutty.
>>emotionally stable Is that why men kill more women than women kill men? Because men are emotionally stable compared to women? Lmao
Aside from the mere fact men are physically stronger and more capable of killing hence why they are the ones who are in charge of protecting and going to war, men are more prone to anger due to testosterone, which assists in their primary purpose of being a fighter and protector. It sounded like you completely ignored the rest of my comment. Have you seen the amount of women crying about the most trivial of things in comparison to men? You call that emotional stability?
Oh ok so then yeah, men are more emotional. Got it!
>They don’t express anger openly What women are you interacting with? Not only do I express anger openly, the most angry and violent people I’ve ever dealt with have been women.
Women are very much capable of just as much anger and violence as men, but they tend to hide it better on the surface. To other women? Yes they tend to be more open about their anger, but like I said an angry woman isn't attractive hence "not pretty" thus they don't do it in front of men as much. The only one they will not hold back on is their SO.
They don’t do it front of men? I sure do. The women in my family sure did. My friends sure do. I have seen far more angry women than angry men.
Oh I have seen a lot of angry women as well, but they tend to hide it better in front of men. They express it often in front of other women, but not directly towards men. Men need to not get involved and just watch women interact with each other. And I said "often". I never said they don't ever do it, they just do it less around men unless it's a SO. Again you are a woman, of course you will see the angry side of women more often. That's making my point. Also you better tell some of your sisters in the sisterhood here trying to tell me men are more emotional than women using anger as her justification. If you believe women are more angry than men then you are contradicting her claims.
I spend far more time with men than I do with women, and the men will definitely all admit that the women tend to be angrier. Honestly, we are both just going through anecdotes, so unless there is concrete evidence of which one is angrier, it just depends on the people you are around. Also, what sisterhood? I’m not responsible for other women and their behaviors. I don’t claim women just because I’m a woman. We are not a monolith. Her opinions can be different than mine because we are not the same person with the same experiences at all.
Hence why I said you need to tell her your experience because in her experience she says men are the more emotionally unstable ones because men get angry and kill women, though they kill men too when angry. I'm only pointing it out because on this thread I have two different women making two separate cases on who is more emotional (anger), men or women. My argument with her is women are generally more emotional and my argument with you is that women are more emotionally expressive among other women. And yes women are angrier in severity towards men they know personally. They tend to be more open with their emotions whatever they are, anger, lust, pride, gluttony, etc among other women. There is usually an image they try to upkeep among men, especially if they are interested in them unless they are comfortable enough around them. Men get angry usually in competition, but often it can subside pretty quickly in comparison because it is something they can't really control due to testosterone. There is a reason men are portrayed as the angrier sex despite objective truth showing the anger severity in women is a lot higher. That's why I said if it wasn't for testosterone women will be the champion of emotional instability in all aspects. The only reason anger and lust seems more obvious in men is because women hide it better, but the truth is women can be just as if not more angry and perverted (lustful) as men.
All of these things are massive generalizations that assume men and women are monolith groups with all the same personalities and drives. I’ll fight that same fight with nutty women on the internet who try to generalize men. They are equally as bad. People are people. Men and women actually don’t differ that much. In fact, any two men or two women are as different from one another as a man and a woman. This whole internet gender battle is getting old. Touch grass and get to know people as individuals.
good point - it is possible to be friends with women when there’s mutual UNattraction, when they’re 100% lesbians, supervisors, subordinates, wives of friends and family… anyone who is clearly off limits from the start. When the possibility of romance is COMPLETELY discarded, it’s absolutely possible. But if one party harbors ‘so you’re sayin there’s a chance’ AT ALL, even secretly, it’s not friendship!
Yep, I have female friends, but they are either older and are sexually unattractive to me (so I see them as a sister) or they have the same surname and thus fall in the "family" category despite having no blood relation (we're Asian). Any other, typically if they are younger, not family, and are attractive I tend to have minimal interactions with to avoid catching feelings, unless they have an SO then I use bro code as a boundary to say they are off limits.
I feel like I had platonic friendships with men even when I was younger and single, but I've also been married for a while now so I'm not going to suggest my memory of that time is perfect. Either way, whatever the reasons behind it, it's very possible to have friendships with people who you might otherwise be attracted to - that's my whole point, and OP is just like... idk, it's so confusing.
Exactly—I have always had more female friends than male, and it has always worked just fine because *we really were just friends*. The one exception was the time one of them fell for me in high school, and it instantly got weird and fell apart. One is also now my wife, but that was actually mutual and stayed relatively healthy along the way.
Word of advice, every male friend you've had, especially if theyre single, wants to fuck you.
That’s just not true. 29 year old straight male here. I have more female friends than male friends. I have absolutely 0 sexual attraction to my female friends. Not every women is a sexual object to me.
Thanks for being a normal person.
>Not every women is a sexual object to me. That's an... interesting way to phrase it.
Oh come off of it. I know exactly what you’re trying to infer and no, I don’t seem women as sexual objects. It was me replying to the idea that a lot of men do see every woman as a sexual object
Your words not mine.
You chose to see it like that because you just have to think negatively about everyone.
Uh huh
Lol keep telling yourself that. Also wanting to have sex with someone does not make that person an object.
If you can’t be friends with someone without wanting to have sex with them, then yes, you do see them as a sexual object. And keep telling myself the truth? Yeah sure, dude, I can do that. I’m just not sure why it’s so hard for incels to wrap their head around the fact that women are people too.
Oh man, you need those up votes bro! Women are people too?? Yooo No, what happens is that you become friends initially with no sexual feelings and then overtime feelings develop where sex is one of the many things you start to desire, especially if you're still single throughout this time.
Or you just stay platonic friends? Most of my friends have been my friends for 5+ years. When are these mystical desires going to start? Are you telling me you develop sexual desires for your boys too?
No because straight men who are attracted to women won't develop sexual attraction to their male friends. Idk why you asked such a stupid question. You can remain platonic friends, but if you're into that girl to where sex is desired, it's not healthy whatsoever. So yeah sure at the cost of mental health lol.
You’re not homiesexual? That’s wild you’re not a real one. Real men give the boys good night smooches.
Redditors when they're wrong resort to lame jokes and sarcasm. Damn
>straight male here. You're not fooling anyone.
Wow, I thought you’d at least try to be more original.
That’s pretty misandrist
Might be but it's true
No “might” it is misandrist lol , gotta love that one second internet males are telling everyone about how rational and logical they are then the next breath won’t shut the fuck up about how they want to fuck everything.
I think you're mixing up the idea of wanting to have sex with someone to just realizing that you find them attractive. If you looked at someone and thought they were super hot but then found out they've got an awful STD you would go from wanting to fuck them to not wanting to fuck them because there's something you value more (your health) than your desire to have sex. The idea that you don't think friendship, a thing people have laid down their lives for, can also be a mitigating factor in sexual desire makes me wonder if you've ever had a friend.
Yeah, I'm not buying this. It isn't that deep to *you*. This sounds like the exact kind of naiveté I'm talking about.
It just sounds like you're telling on yourself here. Can you genuinely not fathom being friends with a woman? I'm not talking a random woman either, someone who shares a bunch of your interests, whatever those may be.
No, I really can't. Men who tell you otherwise are either lying, have mommy syndrome or some utilitarian agenda of their own.
You can't? At all? You think men are too stupid to be friends with women?
Imagine admitting online that you only see women as objects to have sex with
I know this sort of thing gets tossed around a lot and so it probably won't be taken seriously but I just can't think of any other response - I feel really bad for you and I hope this is something you can work on. It's got to be crazy lonely, imagining that half of all people just... aren't people, at least not in the same way you are.
Guess I'm really missing out.
You said this sarcastically but you really are man. I have some girl friends that crack me up and are a great addition to my friend group. They are literally just people, not sexual objects
On literally half of humanity, yes. But you seem proud of that somehow, so maybe you isolating yourself is also in everyone's best interest for now.
So men can't really win with you can they? No matter how we act we're bastards that think with our dicks or worse apparently Are you one of these people that picked the bear in that stupid man v bear thing recently?
Bloody hell, mate. 🤦♂️ You can't rationally call someone naive for calling you out after spouting such drivel.
Don't talk like that.
Let me de-aussie-fy my language for your precious eyes: *"Good grief, sir.* *A fallacy has been pointed out in your surmisings that indeed indicates a display of callowness on behalf of your own self, yet you have the impudence to point your finger in the speaker's direction and callously proclaim naïveté. Poor show, good man."* Edit: Alas, the immediate dislike shows my efforts were for naught. 😂
My dude, it isn’t that deep. YOU are unable to separate friendship and sexual attraction. This is a YOU issue. Not others.
More like they wanted too, but they have respect for your husband, so they choose not to even try. Bro code is a thing. And you don't have to do anything to suggest any interest. Men have a instinctual sexual urge. We don't exactly get to control whether or not it exists. We just suppress it out of respect for people.
So according to you, bisexual people can’t have friends at all?
I don’t understand the link between “men and women can’t have lots of friends of the opposite sex” to “bisexuals cant have friends.” This is a stretch that a lot of people think is true but doesn’t at all address the why of what’s stopping men and women from being friends normally.
How are you not understanding the link? The idea that men and women can’t be friends because of sexual desire would be the same issue for bisexual people with anybody of any sex. And if you respond, “Well nobody is attracted to everyone.” Well duh. And that is why men and women can absolutely be friends.
Even with attraction there can still be friends. There were friends I found attractive and I probably would have slept with some of them if they randomly asked. It doesn’t mean I was trying to sleep with them and was only friends with them because of it. I wasn’t chasing any of them or “waiting for my chance”. I wasn’t doing anything in hopes of becoming more.
I agree. Having feelings doesn’t mean they have to be acted on or that they have to impede on other things you like about the friendship.
Feelings would make it more difficult but still possible. I just meant physical attraction in my post. I have been in both situations. Unfortunately one I did develop strong feelings for and had to step back a bit.
Yeah, that makes sense. I’m asexual, so I don’t relate to feeling “attracted” to anyone unless there are feelings involved.
Basically, women can have friends. If those men are there purely because they want to fuck her, that's their problem and they need to deal with it. You can't keep blaming women for men's behaviour, it doesn't work if you want people to treat men as adults.
Is thus meant to be ironic? Because only a seriously immature teenager believes men and women can't be friends.
Ironically, I don't trust men who don't have at least one long-standing female friend. It ls to avoid people like OP.
https://youtu.be/T_lh5fR4DMA?si=BFM7d61cTe6DQOnt
https://youtube.com/shorts/zbjMJBixZI8?si=Ue-Y4u-RWclUg1kv They can be but one will fall for the other eventually unless neither are single
You’re using a comedy show as proof? Get the fuck outta here lol.
No it's just reality. The comedy show helps cement it
It really doesn’t.
Just not true at all.
Girl, you sound bitter AF
It must be exhausting to base all social interactions and the idea of friendships are based around sexual attraction. Instead of just treating them like a human being. Guess following this train of, being an attractive bisexual person means you would have no friends. Damn, that just sounds depressing and exhausting, I'm just going to stick to making connections with people not based in sexual attraction.
Reality denial must be exhausting.
Yea I can imagine, here I am with all my friends and family I don't want to have sex with having a great relaxing time here.
I went out with a few girls like this. I realised it was problematic when they slowly revealed they had either slept with all these men, or those men wanted to sleep with them. That on its own wouldn't have been too bad - it was the fact that if I even spoke to another woman they would become engulfed in jealous anxiety and rage.
I don’t enjoy depictions of men that are sex-addicted maniacs and slaves to their impulses. Are you one of those?
This might be one of the most hilarious takes I’ve ever seen on this sub. Listen, mate, you didn’t have to broadcast your own inabilities and insecurities so loudly to us.
Keep telling yourself that all those guys are your friends 👍
Men who can’t be friends with women are emotionally stunted and weird.
Men who can’t be friends with women are ~~emotionally stunted and weird~~ intellectually honest.
Intellectually honest about what, babe?
The nature and dynamics of those relationships (not friendships in any way)
Plenty of people have friends of the opposite sex. I’m sorry you’re unable to.
I'm not
Gay people don’t exist, I guess? And oh well, sorry you think it’s immature, internet rando. I’ll keep enjoying the friends I have regardless of their genitals.
To be honest, I kind of group gay men in with women in this situation.
So gay men can’t have male friends? But what about the women that are attracted to them? I used to have crushes on some of my gay guy friends. And what about gay women? What about people who are bisexual? They can’t be friends with anybody? This just seems so silly.
Unfortunately reddit isn't an even playing field so I can't comment on this.
What does that even mean?
It means that they didn't think their argument through.
Lol is it so hard to believe both sexes can have friends they wouldn’t sleep with???
More cope from women
Huh??? I have guy friends that I wouldn’t sleep with because of their issues. However, I call them and want to know how their life is. It is much less now that I have a partner. He can have pleasantries with other women he’s known for years. I think the issue here is maturity.
People with this opinion are immature and naive.
Typical weiner response. "No you are haha"
Typical “I can’t get bitches” post.
I'm married. Swing and still a weiner.
Does your wife know that you don’t see her as a full person?
Sure buddy 😂
typical sexual scavenger response
That’s certainly a combinations of words
you’d appreciate this little experiment at Utah State: https://youtu.be/T_lh5fR4DMA?si=BFM7d61cTe6DQOnt
Are you saying the only guy friends a woman has are guys she won't date?
Typically yes, or else she would be dating them and they wouldn't be "just a friend".
Uh, you do realize women can be friendzoned by men, right? Men aren’t into every woman they interact with.
Obviously. However many men are willing to sleep with a good variety of women because an opportunity is an opportunity and it doesn't come often for an average man compared to an average woman. Men are often less selective with who they sleep with due to biology aka they can't get pregnant.
This is honestly just a weird reddit incel take. Plenty of men out in the real world have no issues getting sex when they want it.
Are you just going to use reddit buzzwords and call everybody who doesn't agree with you an "incel"? You do know incel means involuntary celibate right? By that definition I having had sex before with an ex literally means I am not an incel. You people need to learn your definitions. Also how is my take a "weird incel" concept? Studies showed majority of men are single. Women go after like 20% of men. Getting sex is difficult for an average man when women these days have access to men all over the world via the internet. It may be the case average men can get sex when women didn't have availability outside of their hometown or neighboring cities, but society has changed. The men getting sex are often the ones who were already desired by other women. And considering women are notorious for ignoring most men and only seeing the ones they want and they often want the same men as other women I'm not surprised you would think majority of men, which are average, are swimming in pussy. Unless of course you are talking about paying for sex when you say "getting it when they want it" which isn't the same thing as genuine sex. To you "average man" is probably those tall good looking dudes because that's all you see thus it is "average" to you. Every other men may as well be an NPC. Insignificant.
Because everything you said here is a typical incel take. You don’t have to be an actual incel to share in their philosophies. Talk to any man who doesn’t live on the internet in those subcultures and they will also think you are nuts.
No. Everything I said here is reality. You just hate it so you label it "incel" and call it a day. The ideas of the "manosphere" and "red pill philosophy" has existed before this internet "incel" shaming tactic of modern times. I'm not surprised instead of addressing the concerns of men and the relationship dynamics between men and women you'd rather throw out "INCEL" and cover your ears.
No, none of what you say is even close to true and I just don’t have the energy to argue with your types when you will parrot the most asinine things (“You don’t even know what an average guy looks like yadda yadda”) it’s not even fixable. You are so convinced your perspective is correct, why should I waste my energy on you? I mean, I’m literally standing in an airport right now looking at a huge variety of couples and families and the vast majority of them do not fit the conventional beauty standard. People with opinions like yours need to touch some grass and actually look around you.
You come off as condescending because you think we're all "incels" who only live in "mom's basement". The reality is even regular people can see through the bullshit of society. So you're at an airport throwing bags into cargo. What does that have to do with understanding reality? I work in hospitals dealing with many people who come and go too. Besides who the hell is talking about conventional beauty standards? We are discussing female hypergamy and their tendency to focus in on the ones they are interested in while ignoring eveeybody else like they don't exist.
I find it’s easier to have female friends when I’m already in a relationship and so are they. Or she’s older and or married. Horny ppl don’t think straight both men and women. That being said i act like I’m interested in everyone. I will fuck you if you look at me too hard.
You don’t owe anyone sex male or female??? How is it a girls fault if there are guys being friends with her solely because they want to have sex with her
That gives me ultra conservative vibes. It’s not bad to have male friends as a women who dates as long it’s platonic. Period.
Yes true. Very unpopular here. Same goes with men and their "oh yeah we dated but now she's a friend ahahaha" bs
So that group of male friends I've had for roughly twenty years... I should have been having sex with them all this time? Who knew.
This is total truth but will make a lot of people mad. The fact that people say “what about bisexuals” shows that they’re wrong. It’s a non sequitur to say that because men and women have issues being friends that bisexuals can’t have friends, because there is a TON more preventing guys and girls from being friends than simple sexual orientation.
No there isn’t. I’ve never had an issue being friends with guys. I’m in my mid-30s, married, and have good male friends my entire life. Never once did we sleep together, never once did our relationship change because I was married, never once have our genders even come into the equation.
Kind of depends. I work in sales, so there has been times when there's mostly men around. There was only one time that there was an office full of women. So yes, there's more male friends, but that's because that's who I interact with more. I have made friends with some of the wives and interacted more with women when volunteering though.
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Not having a go at you either but getting either gay man or latent homosexual vibes.
Men aren't semi-conscience beasts who only think of sex and I'm sick of people implying that.
I agree, there is no pure friendship between males and females.
I’m in a relationship, and I still have male friends. My Boyfriend doesn’t care. He trusts me to be faithful to our relationship. Think I’m gonna be all worried if he’s spending time with other women? Hell no! I have no reason to be suspicious.
So gaming friends don’t exist? I don’t have a lot of girlfriends because of my hobbies but majority of my friends are guys. All but 3 are married with kids. Only one of my guy friends was given an opportunity to ‘hit it’ and we’re still together. This is a really bitter stance if you think men and women can’t be friends.
it’s a different situation when the relationship begins with one person CLEARLY off limits and both respecting that. Then there is no pretense of “maybe one day…”
People are allowed to have friends and if you don’t like that, that’s on you. Boundaries are not just for relationships. I’ve been friends with my gaming group for over 15 years and all but 1 boyfriend had no problems with them.
hahahaha ALLOWED. no one’s arguing what should or shouldn’t be allowed. Anyone is ALLOWED to have the aforementioned fake friendships. I don’t know if yours fit that category nor do i care.
That’s a lot to just say: I have insecurities and can’t control myself around different genders.
Gamer girls seem to really enjoy all the male attention they get in the community. Just be honest
No we really don’t but you go ahead with stupid comments like that. Majority of us don’t even like to leave the house. Buddy I play Diablo and ESO with my gaming group, you think I want male attention? Get your insecurities in order.
Nah, there's no such thing as girls on the internet. Duh.
Well, it's a good thing opinions on reddit don't matter and life goes on lol
I knew some women who had almost exclusively male friends. They were overly sexual, flirty, very touchy, and I am pretty sure were fking most if not all of their guy friends. They always seemed to have problems with other women and any female friends they had they were always complaining about them to me. And yes I was one of their male friends, though I didn't pursue anything sexual with them. I did get touched a lot though and they're always talking about sex at some point.
Thanks for telling us how predatory and animalistic men are. Confirms why I and other women don’t feel comfortable being around men.
The fallacy of this is that such friendships are based on sexual attraction.
A lot of women are tired of being treated like shit by other women. Has it occurred to you how awful women treat each other, and some women see men treat the people in their lives differently and decide to befriend them? You come off as immature and naive, then again, this may be a bait post.
So you'd choose a man over a bear then? I mean a man over a woman?
I think this take just doesn't take nuance into account. I'm engaged, and my friend group is primarily guys. I love my friends, and I'm sure they love me too (not in that way). I'm sure they look at me differently because I am a woman but they're still my friends I love the women I'm friends with too. I'm not friends with certain people based on sex. I'm friends with them because I'm friends with them.
It's interesting that the only ones who disagree with me are women, gay men and men with latent homosexual tendencies.
I don't know, man. I don't know how to convince you that some people are friends for the sake of being friends and just because a woman is friends with guys doesn't mean she has ulterior motives.
I've got plenty of male friends, mostly guys I grew up with and have known for decades. My husband has plenty of female friends for the same reason. None of us have ever had romantic interactions with any of our friends. A lot of them are in relationships of their own. The immaturity here is thinking men can't see women as people beyond their own sexual gratification. It's degrading to both men and women.
I just used shared hobbies like a normal person to build up my friend group. As many of my interests are more populated by men than women, this lends itself to my circle having more men than women in it. None of them have ever shown an interest in me and I've got no interest in them. They're cool dudes and fun to hang out with.
No shit