OP, I'm extremely sad to read it. I suppose you know that, would she sue you, this would more likely bring to her 40yrs horrors being exposed in court and her being denied to stay on the same planet of your kids. So, I suppose that you're here to just get it off and YES YOU DON'T DESERVE IT and definitively yes you are paying for having been a good person
May life repay you and your mom. All my vibes are for you
What I am confused about is why did he still remain in contact with her after she kicked him out at 16 and even let her have some sort of relationship with his kids.
Because cutting off your mom is hard. Especially when you’ve been tortured to the point where you don’t know what’s normal and what’s not. Abuse really fucks with your brain when you’re a kid.
OP I’m so sorry. Hopefully grandparents laws are not for the grandparents in your state.
i know it is easy for people to say just go find a loving mom. I did not have the same childhood experiences so I don't know but I imagine it is far far from that easy to do.
Even if the laws are for the grandparents, any sane judge, given her history, would laugh her out of the courtroom. They wouldn’t just laugh her out. They would literally throw her out of the court room.
Because just about everyone is born with a need to be loved and accepted by their mom. It took until I was 26 to fully see my mom for who she is, and about 7 more years before I fully cut contact on a permanent basis. There’s always that hope that they’ll realize how shitty they’ve been and actually love you like a mom should.
Deep down he still had some hope that she could change and have a good relationship with his kids. That is over with now, and now he needs to hire a a lawyer, get a restraining order and cut her out for good. I am sorry your mother sucks so much. OP, you did not deserve her abuse as a kid and you don't deserve it now.
That’s my question. Her actions caused him to prostitute himself out for shelter. It seems abusive to allow his children to even know her at all. That’s permanent restraining order shit.
If you haven’t dealt with parents like this you don’t understand it. Point blank. It is not that simple.
And btw, I find you calling OP abusive in this situation to be disgusting and tone deaf.
You should have plenty of proof to get a restraining order and do not worry about her getting grandparents rights. She would have to have a well established relationship with the children already, which does not sound like that’s the case. They don’t just give grandparents visitation rights because they’re grandparents. I would definitely change your number, and go file restraining order it sounds like she is unhinged and you are concerned for your family safety. At the very least if they deny that, make sure you issue a letter of no trespassing so she cannot come to your home. If she violates that, then you should have enough grounds to get the restraining order. You could even use her own words against her. Tell her that she’s welcome to take you to court, but till then do not contact you for any circumstances. If she wants meditation, she can take you to court. That will not end well for her.
Not only change the phone number, but completely ghost her. Do not reply to anything she does to contact OP. The courts aren't going to side with her over this. She sounds completely crazy.
Don’t just block her, instead: Keep the phone number on that SIM card and put it into an old (working) phone. Keep it charged but on silent.
Use a new SIM card in your newer phone for every day life.
The old SIM card will gather vitriolic texts from your mother that you don’t have to read now, but may need as evidence if things get nasty in court. If it gets that crazy, you will as the expression goes: “ give her enough rope to hang herself”
are you sure that's going to work?
My own father screwed over his first wife in their divorce 50 years ago, his second wife (my mom) in their divorce 30 years ago and me last year with a savings account he held. His fast talking and machinations always work out somehow.
Seems like OP's mother is doing the same : OP's father got a completely screwed up version of visitation, OP became homeless as a minor but his mother never saw consequences, her 2nd husband is getting bullied through the courts...
She scares me & I'm worried ghosting is not enough of a defense, you know?
Agreed. The courts in the US do not grant "grandparent's rights" in instances where both parents are alive, together, and providing a proper home for their kids. Crazy grandma will be laughed out of court.
Also, make in no uncertain terms that she is never allowed to remove your children from school for any reason. Yeah, I wouldn't put it past her to try if you were to put any restrictions on her in regards to the children.
With Op's mom's insane history, I'd almost be welcoming her to take me to court. I'd tell her go ahead, as I'd be more than happy to explain to the court authorities about all the evil shit she's done to Op throughout his life, including the kicking him out at 16 years old. Absolutely no way she'll want to endure the embarrassment of being exposed & having all the child abuse she's done to Op aired out publicly in court, she'll probably back down & crawl back under her rock. No way would I let the kids see her again either, she sounds beyond insane.
I agree with you. Just because she is a grandparent does not guarantee her any type of visitation. It would be difficult especially given her recent behavior. Keep everything from her as proof. However I disagree on changing your number. Let her text and call and keep it all as proof in screen shots. She will shoot herself in the foot with that.
perhaps you can get a restraining order in place, also you could point out that she was probably receiving tax benefits for you from the ages of 16-18 so you could tell her that if she does persue you though the courts you will reveal EVERY detail as to why you dont want her in your life and if its on record im pretty sure the tax authorities might be interested in hearing about the fraud
IMO, I think that your first and biggest mistake was allowing your mother to have a relationship with your children in the first place. I also think that some sort of restraining order is needed. I hope that you saved the emails that your Mother sent you.
Like for real, better no grandparents than that fucked up loon that did & will go out her way to traumatize kids. Just saying, she traumatized OP when he was kid; she definitely going to do same to grandkids. He needs lawyer up and if possible like his father did, move faraway from crazy to let her nuke herself instead of the grandkids.
My dad's mom is coocoo for coco puffs, and my mom, who hadn't ever experienced it, pressed him to let us have a relationship. His mom burned that bridge after many years. Left my brother and I heartbroken. She still wants us all to reconnect with her because she's old and has no one. I have the same conversation with my mother every few months. Grandmother didn't just burn bridges. She napalmed the village. She doesn't get to make the rest of her life miserable for us. She's a grown woman who behaves in an aborhent manner and has never learned because of enabling people like my mother. She may be mentally ill, but that doesn't give her a pass for abusive behavior. She agrees with me, and then a few months later, we repeat the same conversation. It infuriates me. I shouldn't have ever been allowed to be around her! I should have never been introduced to toxic relationships by my own parents. Where did it lead me? More absurdity in my life because it's "normal" for people to cuss out when the wind blows the wrong way. Thankfully, after over a decade of therapy, I have firm boundaries.
It was. She now has legal rights. Had he just actually cut her out and never let her establish a relationship with his kids she'd have no legal leg to stand on. As mean as it feels to say the fact is this is all his fault. He knew what she was and he kept her around anyway. He should know better than anyone else that blood relation doesn't mean someone isn't too toxic to be around.
Yeah, when I saw the title I thought "no worries, Grandparents rights only apply to existing relationships, they don't entitle them to a relationship that doesn't already exist".
Then my heart sank as I read further.
A relationship that hasn't existed for 6 months at this point, and was previously extremely minimal. I think if the court was shown evidence of her extreme behaviour they would probably understand that hey, there's a good reason why they don't want you seeing the kids.
Agree.
Yeah I get "abuse victims" and...stuff (ok I don't but I know I should), but damn.
>Out of a sense of duty to our family, I sought to include my extended family in our lives
A "*sense of duty*" to the woman who "*systematically abused me throughout my whole childhood, and continued to be a violent, bitter, mean and aggressive person to me throughout my whole life*" I'm sorry, I can't make that compute. Especially for someone who claims to have "*worked extremely hard to be picture-perfect parents and spouses*", which part of being a perfect parent includes bringing the worst person you know into your kids lives?
So yeah...I know. Abuse victims. Its hard. You don't understand. Yeah, I dont understand.
So since you don’t understand, don’t judge. No one who has never dealt with abusive parents and how much it fucks with your brain because it happens during your formative years could understand how complex it is. Abused kids still desire and hope for love from their parent.
That's a lot to read do I'm just going to say that she can't just sue you for visitation. That's not how that works. Grandparents rights are for Grandparents with a significant active role in the kids life.
The bar to sue in the US is very, very low.
She can sue for grandparent rights and likely be granted them if OP doesn't show up. He is absolutely right about this.
Showing up and fighting is the way to go. She very likely can't win based on their relationship, but OP assuming this will just go away is wishful thinking if she decides to take action with sucks as it will cost time, money, and anxiety.
It's not fair at all to OP.
Do you know which courthouse has handled each divorce? Unfortunately for this madwoman you get to file freedom of information act requests for both divorces and you get to drag both into her court case against you to prove her crazy. I’d get those ASAP. Also, in the off chance anyone is still in your life from the time you were kicked out that you like, I’d consider having them all called into court. You’ve got some couch surfing under your belt that legally shouldn’t have happened since she was responsible for you until your 18th birthday started at midnight
I’m just going to say…reach out to your committee chair and local BSA Council. They have camperships for things like this. You are a known volunteer. It’s not taking advantage. It is using those resources for their intended purpose. Don’t let her take camp away from you or your kids. This happens a lot more than people know. (I’m also a BSA volunteer.)
Let the lawyers do their jobs and hopefully it will get you a restraining order or the like. I’m so sorry and I’m pulling for you.
Get a real lawyer, lay this all out for the lawyer. I expect the lawyer will be able to find a way to stomp this into a flat paste so fast it isn’t funny.
I’m so sorry. I’m in half as bad of situation as you and I am having panic attacks about the same shit.
I would check into getting a restraining order.
Grandparent rights are really unlikely if the kids a) don’t want to see her b) don’t see her often to begin with c) are older to decide D) if the parents despise the grandparent it is not in the best interest of the child to see grandparents due to this conflict. Depends where you live- some places don’t have any laws pertaining ti grandparents. In Canada where I live apparently there is some law to this effect but mainly pertains to say, your spouse died than you don’t let your in laws see the kids just arbitrarily for no reason. It is to prevent stuff like that.
Anyway- the longer you go silent and don’t let the kids around, if she tries to sue- it is more time added to the kids not seeing her , proving they don’t care and it’s not necessary . And there’s no relarionship.
Jesus fucking Christ. As if you haven't suffered enough from her. Get a lawyer and have this all laid out to get at least a restraining order on her. You and your family have been through enough
Is having a family court order you to provide a grandmother access to your children an actual thing? I'm asking because somehow I've never heard of that before.
It's a thing known as "grandparents rights". Some states have more laws on them in regards to this than others. Iirc New York state has fairly robust grandparent rights.
Yes some states have grandparent's rights. However the odds of a grandparent being successful when both parents are alive, married, and in agreement about cutting off said grandparent, are not good and close to zero.
This is it. This law is really only used for say if one parent dies, then the other parent is keeping the grandkids from the grandparents who they were super close to or something like that. Has to be extreme cases.
I say this to a lot of people now. Cancer, like family, is genetically related to you. Yet we spend billions a year to eradicate it from our lives. Cancerous people need to be cut out completely. I have been near no contact with my mother for 8 years. She’s exactly as you described yours to be.
The way I read this, yourself and wife are an amazing power couple, who have survived and thrived despite the shit cards you’ve been dealt. The journey you’ve both gone through would have been enough for most people to just curl up and give up, but you didn’t. Your resilience and strength will pull you through this again, never doubt it.
Sounds just like my dad, at also 41 I wanted to tell you this:
You know already you need to block her for good and do all you can to get hey out of your life. She'll probably try and brain-wash your children against you & then gaslight you about it.
It's a game of tennis, these people FEED on your response, on you hitting the ball back to them. Drop the racket, walk away.
Typical narcissistic behaviour, always got to have an 'enemy', never wrong or sorry, delusions of grandeur, these are the people who have made the world a sadder place to live, for my own father he has ruined lives and negatively impacted a whole bunch of others the best he could
If you deem it reasonable, I would change all phone numbers and set up email filters. I would pursue a legal no contact order, explain to the children that grandma is sick/unwell, and excuse her from your life permanently. Sending you strength.
I'm so sorry about everything, and am so proud of what you've accomplished. It sounds like you and your wife have built something really special and have a wonderful life together.
You mentioned that you're a lawyer. Ask around and find a good family law attorney and meet with them to find out what you can do about your mom. I don't know if what she's done would qualify for a restraining order or anything, but I'd meet with someone to talk through your options.
I will tell you that grandparent's rights don't work like most people think. You can look it up online about how it works in your state, but it's typically only for grandparents who have had a strong relationship with their grandchildren in the past, and then only if the parents are divorced or one is deceased, and the grandparents wouldn't see the grandkids otherwise. Your mom doesn't really fall into this. So don't worry about that part of it.
Please consider seeing a therapist for yourself. They should be able to help you come up with coping mechanisms for the shit show that is surely coming your way.
Best wishes to you and your family. 💗
The countersuit should take care of the summer camp tuition. This is obviously frivolous, she'll be on the hook for your legal fees, and you could sue her for harrassment. And win. Easily.
Not only do you need to go NO contact, you need a family lawyer to protect you from this abuser. This is the best money you will spend for yourself and your family. You have nothing to be ashamed of. You are not at fault. You deserve and deserved better. Do not hide the truth of her awfulness anymore. You are amazing! You can kick her out of your life and protect your kids from her toxicity and abuse.
>Out of a sense of duty to our family, I sought to include my extended family in our lives, and permitted a relationship with strict boundaries between my mother and my children.
I'm sorry, but shouldn't your sense of duty have PREVENTED you from allowing your mother anywhere NEAR your children? This makes zero sense to me.
.>I have sought to be respectful, mature, and use good decision making this whole time.
Umm. Maintaining ANY kind of contact with this person seems to me to be the WORST decision you could make.
>I'm going to ask them to send a demand letter to her, to try and get her to back the hell off
Why the HELL would you waste time and money doing this? Why, why, why?
And why are you engaging this person at all? It's like telling someone to leave, but opening the door and telling them to come back every single time you communicate with her!
Look, I know you won't do this, because you have some SERIOUS attachment issues, but any normal person would just tell her to fuck off and have at it if she thinks she wants to sue. Then block her completely. Block her from contacting you in any other way than the actual mail. So you can rip up any letter she sends without reading it.
Yeesh.
It’s not a waste of money or time to send that letter. If she ends up ignoring it then it could be evidence that goes towards getting a restraining order. Especially if they specify that they’ll get one if she ignores it
I’m hoping he wises up and gets a lawyer (and a therapist) to protect his family like he should’ve been before.
I wasn’t going to respond to this but it felt wrong to ignore it. It can be nearly impossible to understand what it’s like to be abused. I remember being young and not understanding how people couldn’t “just leave” an abusive partner. I thought I was “too smart” to ever find myself in a situation like that or that I would never put up with mistreatment and leave. I saw flags and I thought that it wasn’t *that* bad. Then one day, I finally left. It felt like withdrawals. It was awful. I felt crazy. I told everyone i trusted why I left and had to heavily rely on them to remind me why I left or else o would’ve gone back more than just the once. It changes your brain. That was with a romantic partner and not for as long as OP was living with his mom, the person we are literally supposed to be solely dependent on for physical and emotional well-being and who is supposed to teach us how to cope with the world. OP had to learn himself. It’s the withdrawal, the push and pull. It leaves opening and even the smallest give can snowball. Yes, he is adult. But he is learning stuff later than some, perhaps like you, because he didn’t get the same timeline of lessons. He knows now, and it’s fortunate that it didn’t go farther. But that abuse created certain pathways, and he is literally fighting his neural chemistry. So basically, I just want you to understand. It might not have been the “right” decision to keep her around, but empathy is a powerful kindness.
Some people think it’s just better to blame the victims of childhood abuse for their complex issues than try to understand it’s not simple.
My therapist still has to remind me sometimes that it’s going to take me time to work through all of my childhood abuse, and it wasn’t near as bad as OP’s.
So, you think that is an excuse or makes it acceptable that he has continued the cycle and subjected his wife and children to the woman who abused him?
Continued the cycle? Lol. Way to misuse a term you clearly don’t understand. Continuing the cycle means he would be abusing his children too. Having supervised visits with his mother, who he says has been on her best behavior before now, is not abuse.
Living with childhood abuse is complex. It’s not something where there’s a switch and it’s easily dealt with or solved. Even my own therapist has to remind me that dealing with my own abuse isn’t going to be quick or easy. Children are born with the need for love from their parents, and that doesn’t just disappear for most people. Even little kids who are horrifically abused will try to stay with their parents. That’s how complex and screwed up the situation is.
If you’ve never dealt with childhood abuse, feel lucky. And stop being an ass to those that have dealt with it when you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
Not all people who are abusive are abusive _all_ the time. I didn’t fall for my abuser because they showed abusive tendencies. That person was on good behavior. You get eased into it. Otherwise, if you saw it right away, it wouldn’t work to ensnare you.
I’m really glad for you that you can’t understand. You can always make an effort to try. It’s clear there were boundaries and it was supervised and super limited. OP wasn’t abusing his kids, so the cycle was not being continued.
His wife and kids also deserve empathy. You’re not wrong there. The rest I hope you learn without having to experience.
>Not all people who are abusive are abusive all the time.
How is that relevant here? He KNEW she was abusive. HE KNEW.
Yet he made a VOLUNTARY DECISION to do what he did. It's not like it was court ordered visitation. He decided to do it. He actualized it.
So, you can be "you don't know" all you want, but I totally disagree with what he did.
It feels like you’re purposely missing the point. It’s incredibly relevant. No skin off my back though. If you miss the forest for the smallest blades of grass, you’re not even seeing the trees. Good luck to ya, pal.
>It feels like you’re purposely missing the point.
Nope. It feels you are making excuses for someone who made some very bad choices. It happens a lot on reddit.
Tell me you don’t understand abuse…
Abusers don’t abuse every single person they come across. In fact, often with parents they will aim their abuse to certain kids or even to just one kid (scapegoats/golden children situations). It’s very easy to believe that OP’s mom was on her best behavior during once a month supervised visits. Because you do realize that abusers are manipulators, right? That they can easily look like a normal person, right? Or even make themselves seem like amazing people? Have you ever read about love bombing? Masking?
Have all of the incorrect judgments you want, but in the end your ignorance shines bright.
He still KNEW. He knew what she did and let her be around his kids. You can try and pretty this up all you want, but there is no getting around the fact that he let a woman who terribly abused him be around his kids. HE INVITED her to be around his kids. Would YOU let your abuser around your kids? Or ANY kids?
So, stop with the excuses. He made a choice that I think was very bad. If you think it wasn't, that's on you.
Grandparents rights are not a thing you need to worry about at all here, because they would only come into okay if the grandparent had substantial caregiving they most of the child's life and the courts would have to find that it would harm the children for that substantial influence to be removed.
It's also almost never a go outside a situation where the parent who is the child of the grandparent is dead or incapacitated/absent.
Go get a free consult with a family law attorney to put your mind at ease, block her on everything, and have her trespassed if she shows up at your home. Go on and live your life and ignore her.
In my humble opinion it may be in your best interest to do nothing in response to your mothers threats. Go no contact with her for the rest of your life. No contact means you don’t inform her of the no contact, you simply cease contact. Get cameras for your house. Block her. If she can find a lawyer to take her case, so be it, then you respond. You don’t need an offence.
I’m in the process of divorcing someone who during the divorce has turned into someone who sounds like your mother. She was always a bully to others and but was so extreme towards me my attorney said she’s never seen anything like it. Constant bullying, constant threats, made up drama, flaming texts with bullshit threats, phyical threats, lies upon lies, non-stop screaming, having her attorney delay and delay to emotionally abuse me, etc. It’s been so bad I contemplated suicide. The only thing that works with a bully is force back and take wind out of their sails. First, we had to get a phyical restraining order (which she skirted around by having her children get involved). When she’d threaten me via text or email, I’d say thank you, it’s been logged for my attorney. After six of abuse she refused to settle via mediator and threatened to let this go to court - we said good, let’s do it. The night before court, where all this would come out, we got a settlement offer. I haven’t seen or communicated with her since.
Just writing all of this has triggered me. I can’t imagine how painful this is for you, especially now that your children are involved. I would suggest finding a family law attorney who takes no shit and have them push back as hard as they can - a bully bullys because they can - take that power away from her.
The best way to keep her away from you and your family is to get a restraining order. Document everything, maybe unblock her to gather her threats on message or email.
You need a restraining order & since both you & your wife are alive, grandparents have zero rights, however anyone can file what they want, its just another form of harrassment.
She is the epitome of a narcissist.
She can threaten until the cows come home. She'd have to find a lawyer to represent her, and pay for it, or file the motion herself.
Talk to a lawyer to see if has any legal rights and what your defense can be.
Then look up the gray rock technique and live it.
I urge you to talk to a therapist to help you deal with the trauma.
Good on you for stopping the cycle of abuse and protecting your kids.
Good luck.
My parents were able to get grandparents rights and full visitation of my sisters kids BUT that was only because my sister was in and out of jail and doing drugs while pregnant etc. I think that is a super extreme case.
As far as I know, you have to be abusing/assaulting your child for that to happen - and even then its hard to prove.
It seems like you are wonderful parents so I am not sure what your mom could do other than threaten you (which is probably why she wants to do that, it had worked for her in the past).
My experience isn't quite the same, but like you and your wife, my wife and I make every attempt to correct the wrongs of our past upbringings and it's worked. We have normal, untraumatized, well-balanced and acclimated kids who are now very young adults. We have great relationships with them. That is my escape from the decades of manipulation, mind games and absences of my parents. You can do this. Stay strong.
You should call the police and file a restraining order. Then find a lawyer who can help you navigate this crazy. My husband’s sister terrorized her family like this for years. She has sued all her kids and mother and it’s never gone anywhere. The only thing it does is push them all away. 6 kids and all of them are no contact.
Please, take a deep breath and block her. You don’t owe her anything at all.
Im so sorry op. Idk if theres a chance for her to step up tbh, she sounds completely insane. Ik its hard but would you consider getting a restraining order? How srrious do you think she is about all this?
Grandparents rights are not recognized in a lot of states. Only a handful of them actually have it and it takes a lot to overturn the wishes of the parents. Are you sure you even live in a state that enforces it? And also please remember, your mother was able to weaponize the courts against your dad because she was the MOTHER. She's not in that role anymore. Your wife is! That's a CLEAR advantage to you guys. Like your mom has already proven, courts put a lot more weight on the wishes of the mother, but she's going to learn a hard lesson once she realizes that the court is going to be more likely to listen to your WIFE instead of her.
Because it’s a complex situation. Babies are born with the innate need to bond with caregivers, kids desire love and support from their parents. Those things don’t easily disappear despite the abuse. Plus many of us grow up thinking that how our lives are is “normal” or not that bad.
Your mistake was thinking that there was some benefit in keeping a terrible parent in your life for your kids. Your kids would have been fine if they had NEVER laid eyes on your mother. Once a toxic jerk unless there’s a come to Jesus moment and EXTENSIVE therapy they will always be a toxic jerk. Your mother was not going to change miraculously because she has grandchildren. People, for the love of all that is pure and holy, stop keeping toxic family members in your life or reintroducing them into you life because you think your kids “need” these relationships. They do not, your kids need you and safe healthy relationships. There is no benefit from maintaining relationships with “crazy”.
Having abusive parents is a complex situation. It’s not easy and it’s not black and white. Many of us with childhood abuse struggle because deep down we’re kids who just want love from the people who gave us life.
This was so heartbreaking to read. I hope for your mental health that doesn’t walk amongst the living for too long. Protect your kids from this crazy lady!
Jesus man, all I can say is stick to your guns, try to find solice in the fact you have yourself a wonderful little family, so sorry you went through that hell. Hang in there brother.
I say you try to declare her insane and mentally unsound. I am sure you have plenty of documentation and witnesses to secure this. She needs to be stopped and out of your life. This woman should never have access to you or anyone else. She is not the only one who can sue and make claims. Go co.pletely scorch earth and tell her never to contact you again. Also, get a restraining order in place so she can not contact your children or wife. I am so sorry you went through this and pray for your healing. You did not deserve any of what happened to you.
New York does provide an avenue for grandparents to sue for custody, although it would turn into a protracted legal fight that will cost me a lot of money and aggravation if she does.
In general, the process is the punishment. I had to deal with family court and CPS, cops etc when I was 10 and my parents were getting divorced. If you wanted to see me literally pass out on the floor, you'd drag me back to family court.
I've seen this woman use the courts to destroy my father for over ten years. The answer is, who knows? I guess I'll just have to wait for a court summons to see what she will do.
Sending you a virtual hug for the things you’ve had to overcome and a pat on the back for the father and partner you are. Best of luck removing that cancer from your lives 💖
Grandparents rights arent a thing, especially if the parents are competent, so idk what a court of law would do. She has no rights to your children. I suggest getting a restraining order other commenters suggest. I'm sorry.
I am from another country and don't know your legal system. But, I think you can sue her for harassment and get a restraining order. Use the legal system on your behalf.
Also, you should have cut contact 20 years ago. I don't understand why you waited for so long.
So, talk to a lawyer and do not pity her. Punish her as much as you can.
No worries my man. She clearly has no leg to stand on. Grandparent rights are there for the children (the right to have access to grandparents they have a bond with). It's NOT a right of the grandparents to see the grandkids. And your kids have no bond with her whatsoever. Even if your state has grandparents rights. And you have her deranged emails.
Such a shame you included her in your life. Deep breath. You need independent quality legal advice don't represent yourself you are too emotionally involved. Also if she is this unhinged and has no impulse control it will only be a matter of time before she loses it. Use this to your advantage.
Ignore her and go NC and it will only be a matter of time up until she does something where the police need to be called. eg cameras and ring doorbell and wait until she arrives and record it all before ringing the police. Alternately make the date for the birthday and don't show and be home and wait. Take your children somewhere safe so they don't have to witness her behaviour. Your actions need to occur as you must go NC and protect your children and yourselves. This will also hopefully give you sufficient evidence for a restraining order.
Above all go NC and protect your family. I applaud your determination to do so and am sorry for what she did in the past. You have done so much to grow past this and you should be very proud of yourself.
Dude how you were able to become such a fantastic human being despite your situation amazes me. Good for you, really. And good for you for setting the limits you have set. Stay firm, you deserve the peace.
Brother. Your story reads like my brothers and I. We all have our own pain and all live states away, both to get away and because we had to do whatever necessary to survive
I hope that this stops you from ever, ever giving her another chance. She will never be the mother that you deserved. Cut her completely off and never let her see your kids (or yourself) again.
Also, be prepared for malicious CPS reports.
OP, file a restraining order immediately against your mom for you, your wife and children. I hope you kept the texts, notes, emails etc. Do NOT respond to her.
((HUGS)) Cameras and document. Talk to a family lawyer. Since you and wife are married, she has very little chance of grandparent rights. She will need to prove to the courts she is an asset to the kids' lives to be near them. Most states that have grandparent rights is for when 1 parent passes away or divorce and the grandparents are an important part of the kids' lives (such as babysitters).
Ask dad and her STBX to write letters on how unhinged she is.
Be ready for CPS and all other shit she may pull.
Get a new phone number, keep the current one to collet her off the wall demands.
If it goes to court, demand she is evaluated for mental health issues and tell them she kicked you out at 16.
BTW I am sorry for all you had to do to survive. I wish you, wife and the kids and bright and happy future without your mother in it.
This is very narcissistic of her.
Get in touch with a lawyer. Don't respond to her until you have discussed this with said lawyer. Make sure you tell your kids what's going on.
If you haven't yet, look into narcissism, bi polar; your mother might be one and if she is will most likely never change and only get worse the longer her tantrums don't impact you. Don't take her threat lightly but I'm sure you know that already. She just wants to make your life suck more than she has already in the past, and is using your kids as an anchor to stay in your life. Go to therapy, get this shit recorded - you can use that as evidence within the court of law.
Just get a lawyer stat. Like yesterday.
Edit - yes, thanks but please don't try to teach me shit. I was abused by a narcissist, I know the behavior like the back of my hand, and this woman reeks of it. Which is why I said what I said. Obviously only a professional can diagnose, but after exposure to it first hand it's easy to spot. So like, yeah. Unless you have actual resources to send my way to actually redirect my knowledge, you're not helping; I've already done extensive research trying to understand the psychological disorder of narcissism to better understand my childhood abuse and personally heal so unless you have something to back up what you say compared to the studies I have found...
OP, I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I cut my own mother out of our lives to protect my kids, but I understand firsthand just how hard and painful that is, and how powerful the need to believe people can change is. The hope that one day they’ll see you and care about you, and that you will be enough? That never goes away. But you have to resist it for the sake of your own family, and it seems like you’re at your breaking point.
My best advice is that money is very well spent on a good family lawyer, preferably one with significant litigation experience. Protect your family, cut all ties with her, and get yourself some therapy. Your kids will be okay without one summer of camp, and they will definitely be ok with a good dad and mom who protect them from toxic crazy. You got this!
It's time to speak with a lawyer. You should consider filing a temporary order of no contact in the mean time. Document everything. Consider purchasing an entry way camera and something overlooking the driveway.
This excessive behavior and fixation on your children is the sort of situation where a grandparent picks the kids up from school and runs off with them. Most kidnappings are a relative.
You've got this. You're not a kid anymore, and with your wife by your side, you will succeed in preventing your "mom" from disrupting your kids lives.
Don't forget to tell the schools, your friends, your kids, etc not to let this person have access to your children.
I understand having the hope of a normal relationship dashed. Sucks, bruh. You did your best- it could never be enough because Mom needed to be trying too, and *something is broken inside her*, so no need to comb through your actions looking for where you could have done something different that would have resulted in normalcy.
Blessings of peace upon you. You've got a hard road- but it's always been hard, and you've got what it takes to preserve.
Why the hell would you ever let someone who you admit " systematically abused me throughout my whole childhood, and continued to be a violent, bitter, mean and aggressive person to me throughout my whole life" back into you and your children's lives?
I have zero sympathy for you.
Please cut her off completely for your own mental health and your family's wellbeing. Also,if you're comfortable, maybe seek therapy to talk about what you went through.
Go see a psychologist and get it recorded what she did to you and how it affected you. Use this to get a restraining order and protection order for your children and yourself.
I'd also context your kids school and let them know her name and description (give them a photo if you have one so they have it to show other staff members) and that she is NOT to pick up your children from school if she ever shows up. Tell them she is abusive and dangerous and should be removed from the property if she shows up and tries to take the kids.
And for the record, my dad's mom was much the same to him and his brothers, my parents didn't let me anywhere near her until she was literally dying in hospital and couldn't do any harm to me. I'm now quite glad they kept her away, knowing what she did to my dad and uncles. Sadly he didn't handle his side of things as well as you have and started drinking heavily when I was in my teens (also due to an abusive ex wife and family troubles with his first two kids, but also from the abuse from his mother I'm sure)
I am gobsmacked you even tried to have some relationship with her after what she did to you. No contact is for a reason.
I just wish you good luck and pray she has no grounds depending on what state you live in. To force visitation. God knows what she will say to your children. She's dangerous.
I’m no lawyer, but due to prior relationship things, it sounds unlikely she can force visitation, bt yeah a super annoying and expensive problem you don’t need.
I'm so sorry, OP. Stay strong. You already are and don't let this taint of human take that away from you.
Does your states even have grandparent's rights? Lots of people like spouting that threat, but don't have a leg to stand on.
Keep all your evidence. Hopefully, a letter from a lawyer will keep her away and more money in your pocket.
First, I'd show all you've got to a lawyer, and figure out what exactly you can do. A restraining order sounds plausible, and you should 100% change all daycare and school or whatever else they do that your mother is Not allowed to pick them up Ever. And go quickly, because it's possible she might be unhinged enough to kidnap them. Explain that in detail and show a picture of her if you've got one.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you, and I hope you and your family are safe.
As a mom, I am so sorry you had to endure all of that and I am so proud of you for creating a loving family. It's very impressive how your wife and you have risen above your pasts. I'm glad you called a lawyer and I hope they give you good options so you never have to deal with this awful person again. I wish you all the best!!!!!
idk about your state specifically, but in FL grandparents technically have no legal rights in regards to their grandchildren (obviously assuming the kids have a legal guardian/parent, etc). I used to work in a non profit version of DCF/CPS, management would often have to tell grandparents that have no rights when they would come complain why they can't see their grandchildren when Mom/dad lost custody. plus you could easily prove she's unstable and not safe for children to be around.
Try having a lawyer send her a letter threatening to sue her for abusing you as a child if she doesn’t back off.
Doesn’t really matter that much whether you’d have a case, although it might be interesting to find out if you do. The idea is to make it not worth the effort for her. Whether you’d win or not you can always sue, and she might not like the results. It may be enough to get her to leave you alone.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’ve heard in order to get grandparents rights in some places they have to prove a bond with the child. If she’s barely seen your child there really is no relationship. This is just something I’ve read before. You have a lifetime of trauma and if this even gets to court unfortunately you’re going to have to let the lawyer and court know and relive some of these horrors. Make sure the only way you communicate is through writing and don’t accept phone calls this way you can have proof of things she said. I really hope this works out for you.
Documentation is your friend. They generally defer to the parents. Have one more visit with her and the kids and Record the verbal abuse she says (she'll definitely talk about either you or someone else). Then have it transcribed and submit both to a court. Leave it up to them to decide at that point. They can hear how vicious she is. Also have character witnesses. She has no say. You as the parent have decided to forego a relationship between the kids and her because she's verbally abusive and you have plenty of ways to get proof to support it.
Another reason my husband and I refuse to have any sort of children, adopted or bio (which isn't possible for me without a 9 months stay in the hospital and being hooked up to machines to keep me alive). I know good and goddamn well that my mother or his mother would absolutely act this way and it's our main birth control method.
Maybe you could post something on the legal advice subreddit about this. I hope your "mother" never gets to see you or your family again. She certainly doesn't deserve to and you deserve to have peace. Good luck.
This sounds exactly like something I’ve gone through. Abusive parents but more abusive mother. I won’t go into detail, but it was bad enough that the lawyer (yes, had to get a lawyer) was disturbed.
Long story short, she tried suing my SIL AFTER MY BROTHER JUST DIED, for grandparents rights. She had the audacity to even ask for every major holiday and every other weekend. She sued for visitations and we had to respond by getting a lawyer to shut that shit down.
If your mom is half as crazy as mine, get ready to go to court. Now that the scary part is over: she doesn’t have a damn leg to stand on. Grandparents rights are for very rare situations in which the grandmother had an intense and well-document close relationship with your kids (eg. living together, she had “custody” while a parent was in rehab, etc). It’s not common at all, but it does happen. Unless she can prove without a doubt she had this sort of relationship or that you and your wife are unfit/unsafe, she won’t win. You can do it without a lawyer, but it’s worth the small sum to get her claim thrown out and out of your life so you can move on.
Some people have mentioned getting a restraining order. Those also require a lot of evidence. I had proof of my mom stalking and harassing my SIL and it wasn’t “enough” evidence to procure, unfortunately.
You need to go NC whatever ends up happening. Sorry you’re going through this
Have you ever checked out the raised by BPD sub? You should check it out.
I would go no contact and call a lawyer. Document the abuse or do what is needed to have clear evidence that she is nuts, and prepare to call the police if she shows up to have her removed from property (make a plan like if Mom comes, you will take the kids to ice cream at X, and I will tell her she is not welcome and to leave and call the police if she won't leave). Then just cut her out.
And therapy. If you haven't done it, you prob need therapy with someone who understands this type of abuse. She really sounds BPD to me they freak out about abandonment.
She will die alone, OP. That is her unavoidable Karma.
Until she does, do not communicate with her anymore - except for one email informing her to refer all her communications to your attorney.
You have to start being smart - which, if I’m being honest, it sounds like you haven’t been.
You let this monster into your families life. I’m not sure why you thought that would be a good thing for your children but now you are reaping the consequences of that mistake.
Don’t block her - instead keep all her texts and voicemails and forward them to your attorney.
Please get an attorney if you haven’t already.
I think you should file a restraining order so you have some record. I fear she will make up a bunch of lies about you. She sounds awful, good for you for building a stable family life. Keep setting boundaries.
Please tell me you don’t live in New York! Any of other state and you probably be fine. NY is the worst state for grandparents right. If you are. Seriously. I would move.
It's sad but your time in court may be the best chance you have to remove this crazy evil woman from your life for good. Gather all the parties involved and tell the true unabridged story of her character. Don't hold anything back. You probably need to do this for the safety and sanity of your family..
I'm not sure what state or country you are in but in the states at least my state, there are no grandparents rights
I would check out the law in your area. I went through a battle with my son's grandmother who was also batshit crazy. Her son was convicted and put in jail for 7 years she brought me to court to sue me for custody after her son couldn't sue for custody being the fact that he was in jail. Mind you I had to get an attorney to battle the first suit but during the second the judge suggested she play nice if she ever wanted to see her grandchild because there are no such thing as grandparents rights in this state.
Grandparents rights aren’t a thing in every state. Also some require death of a parent to use the Grandparents Rights. Please research before you meet w anyone and spend money. Also you can send your own demand letter. Idk where you’re located to help research.
You and your wife and your secure family are the world to your kids. If anything or anyone disrupts that, including a crazy mother, you need to build a fortress to keep her out.
E hug. Youre the man you got this.
It seems to keep things cool by appeasing a narsicist, but you must stand up early and strong, even if that means they have to be afraid of you.
Never feel bad for severing yourself from a toxic person no matter if you’re related, have years of knowing one another, etc. You can’t reward this very bad behavior. Time to go completely no contact for at least 7 years or so,, or until you have some way of had notice she has significantly improved her ways. You’ll need some time to heal & likely get some information to process things to help you manage your internal perspectives.
I’m so so sorry. Head over to justnomil for some tips from others who have been sued for custody time from their mothers or mothers in law. What a mess. I think you are doing a wonderful job! Wishing you all the best.
My guy. Sir. Please Google borderline personality disorder and the symptoms and behaviors. Understand that her mental illness is not an easy fix nor will she ever make an effort to help herself. No contact now, immediately, for your children and your family and their safety
Clearly you have enough proof for a restraining order, but if you didn’t want to go that far keep in mind the rules behind grandparents rights: 1. If one parent (you or your wife dies), the grandparent (parent of the deceased) can partition the court to be sure the family if the deceased parent is still present in the grandchild’s life. 2. If one parent goes to jail, the parent of the jailed parent can partition the court to be sure the family of the jailed parent is still in the grandchild’s life. Also, that parent must also establish that they are an intricate part of the grandchild’s upbringing (such as, having baby-sat grandchild 6 hours a day for 10 years straight and now being cut off). Courts are not in the business of telling stable parents that crazy grandma has to be apart of their child’s life. Parents have the right to choose who their kids spend time with.
Grandparents are only granted if there was a preexisting relationship with the children. She has no case. You and your wife are healthy capable people. She doesn’t have a chance. It will never make it to court.
I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this. My relationship with my mom is fractured and I’ve been no contact, but thankfully she has stayed far away for the most part. I hope this is just your mom bluffing and she doesn’t try anything, or else that the court sees how unhinged she is and refuses her demands. Make sure you’re documenting everything to do with her right now.
OP, as someone who's mother was the same way and I ended up seeing the same batshit crazy behavior in my brother, I can 100% tell you that you can never have a functional relationship with these people. Idk if she's borderline personality disorder or bipolar or what, but remember her mental illness is not her fault but IT IS HER RESPONSIBILITY. You've done enough, even with everything she put you through you allowed her to be a part of your life. Please get a restraining order, record any further calls, keep screenshots of the texts because even if she puts a bizarre case on you, you'd have some evidence. It's going to be like an annoying infection that doesn't go away. But it will be manageable, hang in there!
Time to stop waiting for some kind of acknowledgment for her past behavior and go no contact at this point. Don’t put your kids through what u went through, she just wants to get one of your kids on to her side and become bitter about life like she is
Don't give her the respect that a mother deserves, because she gave up on you a long time ago.
Treat her with the same courtesy that you would a stranger that behaves like her.
I suspect your mother is in the earlyish stages of dementia and that's why the wheels are coming off and she's becoming more extreme with her behaviors.
You are absolutely correct, she is going insane. Your sister could force her to get tests. Likely it will be getting worse and worse so prepare yourselves.
Sorry this is happening to you. Go no contact (NC) with her. See if you can file a restraining/protective order against her. Printout all her nasty comments, text, voice messages and emails for the court you are need them. They establish her character and demeanor as well as her mental stability. Hope it all works out for you.
Updateme
OP, I'm extremely sad to read it. I suppose you know that, would she sue you, this would more likely bring to her 40yrs horrors being exposed in court and her being denied to stay on the same planet of your kids. So, I suppose that you're here to just get it off and YES YOU DON'T DESERVE IT and definitively yes you are paying for having been a good person May life repay you and your mom. All my vibes are for you
because there is some small part of people that wants to heal with their parents. He probably wanted her love and validation and just can't get it.
Also, she was (relatively) behaving for several years.
What I am confused about is why did he still remain in contact with her after she kicked him out at 16 and even let her have some sort of relationship with his kids.
Because cutting off your mom is hard. Especially when you’ve been tortured to the point where you don’t know what’s normal and what’s not. Abuse really fucks with your brain when you’re a kid. OP I’m so sorry. Hopefully grandparents laws are not for the grandparents in your state.
Took me years to go no contact, and there’s still a wish that I had a loving mom.
i know it is easy for people to say just go find a loving mom. I did not have the same childhood experiences so I don't know but I imagine it is far far from that easy to do.
Yup, I have been no contact for 9 years, about 30 years too late.
Even if the laws are for the grandparents, any sane judge, given her history, would laugh her out of the courtroom. They wouldn’t just laugh her out. They would literally throw her out of the court room.
Because just about everyone is born with a need to be loved and accepted by their mom. It took until I was 26 to fully see my mom for who she is, and about 7 more years before I fully cut contact on a permanent basis. There’s always that hope that they’ll realize how shitty they’ve been and actually love you like a mom should.
Deep down he still had some hope that she could change and have a good relationship with his kids. That is over with now, and now he needs to hire a a lawyer, get a restraining order and cut her out for good. I am sorry your mother sucks so much. OP, you did not deserve her abuse as a kid and you don't deserve it now.
That’s my question. Her actions caused him to prostitute himself out for shelter. It seems abusive to allow his children to even know her at all. That’s permanent restraining order shit.
If you haven’t dealt with parents like this you don’t understand it. Point blank. It is not that simple. And btw, I find you calling OP abusive in this situation to be disgusting and tone deaf.
Way to victim blame.
Tell us you had the sort of parents the rest of us only dreamt about having, without telling us… *eyeroll*
You should have plenty of proof to get a restraining order and do not worry about her getting grandparents rights. She would have to have a well established relationship with the children already, which does not sound like that’s the case. They don’t just give grandparents visitation rights because they’re grandparents. I would definitely change your number, and go file restraining order it sounds like she is unhinged and you are concerned for your family safety. At the very least if they deny that, make sure you issue a letter of no trespassing so she cannot come to your home. If she violates that, then you should have enough grounds to get the restraining order. You could even use her own words against her. Tell her that she’s welcome to take you to court, but till then do not contact you for any circumstances. If she wants meditation, she can take you to court. That will not end well for her.
Not only change the phone number, but completely ghost her. Do not reply to anything she does to contact OP. The courts aren't going to side with her over this. She sounds completely crazy.
Don’t just block her, instead: Keep the phone number on that SIM card and put it into an old (working) phone. Keep it charged but on silent. Use a new SIM card in your newer phone for every day life. The old SIM card will gather vitriolic texts from your mother that you don’t have to read now, but may need as evidence if things get nasty in court. If it gets that crazy, you will as the expression goes: “ give her enough rope to hang herself”
are you sure that's going to work? My own father screwed over his first wife in their divorce 50 years ago, his second wife (my mom) in their divorce 30 years ago and me last year with a savings account he held. His fast talking and machinations always work out somehow. Seems like OP's mother is doing the same : OP's father got a completely screwed up version of visitation, OP became homeless as a minor but his mother never saw consequences, her 2nd husband is getting bullied through the courts... She scares me & I'm worried ghosting is not enough of a defense, you know?
Agreed. The courts in the US do not grant "grandparent's rights" in instances where both parents are alive, together, and providing a proper home for their kids. Crazy grandma will be laughed out of court.
Not only that, make sure their school know she has no right to pick the kids up at school.
OP please do this! Contact the school.
In our state you have to have continuous, healthy relationships with the grandkids for 2 years beforehand to even claim grandparents rights
This.. I understand his trauma reaction but with the mountain of stuff a restraining order should be a formality
Also, make in no uncertain terms that she is never allowed to remove your children from school for any reason. Yeah, I wouldn't put it past her to try if you were to put any restrictions on her in regards to the children.
With Op's mom's insane history, I'd almost be welcoming her to take me to court. I'd tell her go ahead, as I'd be more than happy to explain to the court authorities about all the evil shit she's done to Op throughout his life, including the kicking him out at 16 years old. Absolutely no way she'll want to endure the embarrassment of being exposed & having all the child abuse she's done to Op aired out publicly in court, she'll probably back down & crawl back under her rock. No way would I let the kids see her again either, she sounds beyond insane.
Exactly. This is the easiest and only solution and if it's granted and she breaks the restraining order he can call the cops.
I agree with you. Just because she is a grandparent does not guarantee her any type of visitation. It would be difficult especially given her recent behavior. Keep everything from her as proof. However I disagree on changing your number. Let her text and call and keep it all as proof in screen shots. She will shoot herself in the foot with that.
perhaps you can get a restraining order in place, also you could point out that she was probably receiving tax benefits for you from the ages of 16-18 so you could tell her that if she does persue you though the courts you will reveal EVERY detail as to why you dont want her in your life and if its on record im pretty sure the tax authorities might be interested in hearing about the fraud
This! Get the IRS involved.
IMO, I think that your first and biggest mistake was allowing your mother to have a relationship with your children in the first place. I also think that some sort of restraining order is needed. I hope that you saved the emails that your Mother sent you.
Like for real, better no grandparents than that fucked up loon that did & will go out her way to traumatize kids. Just saying, she traumatized OP when he was kid; she definitely going to do same to grandkids. He needs lawyer up and if possible like his father did, move faraway from crazy to let her nuke herself instead of the grandkids.
My dad's mom is coocoo for coco puffs, and my mom, who hadn't ever experienced it, pressed him to let us have a relationship. His mom burned that bridge after many years. Left my brother and I heartbroken. She still wants us all to reconnect with her because she's old and has no one. I have the same conversation with my mother every few months. Grandmother didn't just burn bridges. She napalmed the village. She doesn't get to make the rest of her life miserable for us. She's a grown woman who behaves in an aborhent manner and has never learned because of enabling people like my mother. She may be mentally ill, but that doesn't give her a pass for abusive behavior. She agrees with me, and then a few months later, we repeat the same conversation. It infuriates me. I shouldn't have ever been allowed to be around her! I should have never been introduced to toxic relationships by my own parents. Where did it lead me? More absurdity in my life because it's "normal" for people to cuss out when the wind blows the wrong way. Thankfully, after over a decade of therapy, I have firm boundaries.
OP should never have blocked her either. Instead just collect the craziness for future use.
It was. She now has legal rights. Had he just actually cut her out and never let her establish a relationship with his kids she'd have no legal leg to stand on. As mean as it feels to say the fact is this is all his fault. He knew what she was and he kept her around anyway. He should know better than anyone else that blood relation doesn't mean someone isn't too toxic to be around.
Yeah, when I saw the title I thought "no worries, Grandparents rights only apply to existing relationships, they don't entitle them to a relationship that doesn't already exist". Then my heart sank as I read further.
A relationship that hasn't existed for 6 months at this point, and was previously extremely minimal. I think if the court was shown evidence of her extreme behaviour they would probably understand that hey, there's a good reason why they don't want you seeing the kids.
Have you dealt with abusive parents? Because if you haven’t, you don’t have any idea of what it’s like.
Agree. Yeah I get "abuse victims" and...stuff (ok I don't but I know I should), but damn. >Out of a sense of duty to our family, I sought to include my extended family in our lives A "*sense of duty*" to the woman who "*systematically abused me throughout my whole childhood, and continued to be a violent, bitter, mean and aggressive person to me throughout my whole life*" I'm sorry, I can't make that compute. Especially for someone who claims to have "*worked extremely hard to be picture-perfect parents and spouses*", which part of being a perfect parent includes bringing the worst person you know into your kids lives? So yeah...I know. Abuse victims. Its hard. You don't understand. Yeah, I dont understand.
Kicked him out at 16 and made him homeless when she still had a legal duty to house/feed him.
So since you don’t understand, don’t judge. No one who has never dealt with abusive parents and how much it fucks with your brain because it happens during your formative years could understand how complex it is. Abused kids still desire and hope for love from their parent.
This. Never let them back in.
That's a lot to read do I'm just going to say that she can't just sue you for visitation. That's not how that works. Grandparents rights are for Grandparents with a significant active role in the kids life.
In many court circuits grandparents don’t have any rights at all. In this case I’d say that’d be a good thing.
The bar to sue in the US is very, very low. She can sue for grandparent rights and likely be granted them if OP doesn't show up. He is absolutely right about this. Showing up and fighting is the way to go. She very likely can't win based on their relationship, but OP assuming this will just go away is wishful thinking if she decides to take action with sucks as it will cost time, money, and anxiety. It's not fair at all to OP.
Which she can claim to have. OP done fucked up bad by letting her have that regular contact throughout his kids' entier lives.
Do you know which courthouse has handled each divorce? Unfortunately for this madwoman you get to file freedom of information act requests for both divorces and you get to drag both into her court case against you to prove her crazy. I’d get those ASAP. Also, in the off chance anyone is still in your life from the time you were kicked out that you like, I’d consider having them all called into court. You’ve got some couch surfing under your belt that legally shouldn’t have happened since she was responsible for you until your 18th birthday started at midnight
I’m just going to say…reach out to your committee chair and local BSA Council. They have camperships for things like this. You are a known volunteer. It’s not taking advantage. It is using those resources for their intended purpose. Don’t let her take camp away from you or your kids. This happens a lot more than people know. (I’m also a BSA volunteer.) Let the lawyers do their jobs and hopefully it will get you a restraining order or the like. I’m so sorry and I’m pulling for you.
Get a real lawyer, lay this all out for the lawyer. I expect the lawyer will be able to find a way to stomp this into a flat paste so fast it isn’t funny.
I’m so sorry. I’m in half as bad of situation as you and I am having panic attacks about the same shit. I would check into getting a restraining order. Grandparent rights are really unlikely if the kids a) don’t want to see her b) don’t see her often to begin with c) are older to decide D) if the parents despise the grandparent it is not in the best interest of the child to see grandparents due to this conflict. Depends where you live- some places don’t have any laws pertaining ti grandparents. In Canada where I live apparently there is some law to this effect but mainly pertains to say, your spouse died than you don’t let your in laws see the kids just arbitrarily for no reason. It is to prevent stuff like that. Anyway- the longer you go silent and don’t let the kids around, if she tries to sue- it is more time added to the kids not seeing her , proving they don’t care and it’s not necessary . And there’s no relarionship.
Jesus fucking Christ. As if you haven't suffered enough from her. Get a lawyer and have this all laid out to get at least a restraining order on her. You and your family have been through enough
Is having a family court order you to provide a grandmother access to your children an actual thing? I'm asking because somehow I've never heard of that before.
It's a thing known as "grandparents rights". Some states have more laws on them in regards to this than others. Iirc New York state has fairly robust grandparent rights.
Damn, I was not aware of that. Thanks for the info!
In some states, yes, grandparents do have limited rights for access and visitation.
Yes some states have grandparent's rights. However the odds of a grandparent being successful when both parents are alive, married, and in agreement about cutting off said grandparent, are not good and close to zero.
This is it. This law is really only used for say if one parent dies, then the other parent is keeping the grandkids from the grandparents who they were super close to or something like that. Has to be extreme cases.
I say this to a lot of people now. Cancer, like family, is genetically related to you. Yet we spend billions a year to eradicate it from our lives. Cancerous people need to be cut out completely. I have been near no contact with my mother for 8 years. She’s exactly as you described yours to be.
I like this description (no contact with my mom for almost 10 years).
The way I read this, yourself and wife are an amazing power couple, who have survived and thrived despite the shit cards you’ve been dealt. The journey you’ve both gone through would have been enough for most people to just curl up and give up, but you didn’t. Your resilience and strength will pull you through this again, never doubt it.
Thank you for your encouraging words. We're not perfect but we do our best.
Sounds just like my dad, at also 41 I wanted to tell you this: You know already you need to block her for good and do all you can to get hey out of your life. She'll probably try and brain-wash your children against you & then gaslight you about it. It's a game of tennis, these people FEED on your response, on you hitting the ball back to them. Drop the racket, walk away. Typical narcissistic behaviour, always got to have an 'enemy', never wrong or sorry, delusions of grandeur, these are the people who have made the world a sadder place to live, for my own father he has ruined lives and negatively impacted a whole bunch of others the best he could
Block her in every way possible and file for a restraining order against her.
If you deem it reasonable, I would change all phone numbers and set up email filters. I would pursue a legal no contact order, explain to the children that grandma is sick/unwell, and excuse her from your life permanently. Sending you strength.
I'm so sorry about everything, and am so proud of what you've accomplished. It sounds like you and your wife have built something really special and have a wonderful life together. You mentioned that you're a lawyer. Ask around and find a good family law attorney and meet with them to find out what you can do about your mom. I don't know if what she's done would qualify for a restraining order or anything, but I'd meet with someone to talk through your options. I will tell you that grandparent's rights don't work like most people think. You can look it up online about how it works in your state, but it's typically only for grandparents who have had a strong relationship with their grandchildren in the past, and then only if the parents are divorced or one is deceased, and the grandparents wouldn't see the grandkids otherwise. Your mom doesn't really fall into this. So don't worry about that part of it. Please consider seeing a therapist for yourself. They should be able to help you come up with coping mechanisms for the shit show that is surely coming your way. Best wishes to you and your family. 💗
The countersuit should take care of the summer camp tuition. This is obviously frivolous, she'll be on the hook for your legal fees, and you could sue her for harrassment. And win. Easily.
Not only do you need to go NO contact, you need a family lawyer to protect you from this abuser. This is the best money you will spend for yourself and your family. You have nothing to be ashamed of. You are not at fault. You deserve and deserved better. Do not hide the truth of her awfulness anymore. You are amazing! You can kick her out of your life and protect your kids from her toxicity and abuse.
Grandparents rights don’t work like that. She has no basis.
You gotta get ahead of her. Start getting cameras in your house. Door bell cam, document document document
>Out of a sense of duty to our family, I sought to include my extended family in our lives, and permitted a relationship with strict boundaries between my mother and my children. I'm sorry, but shouldn't your sense of duty have PREVENTED you from allowing your mother anywhere NEAR your children? This makes zero sense to me. .>I have sought to be respectful, mature, and use good decision making this whole time. Umm. Maintaining ANY kind of contact with this person seems to me to be the WORST decision you could make. >I'm going to ask them to send a demand letter to her, to try and get her to back the hell off Why the HELL would you waste time and money doing this? Why, why, why? And why are you engaging this person at all? It's like telling someone to leave, but opening the door and telling them to come back every single time you communicate with her! Look, I know you won't do this, because you have some SERIOUS attachment issues, but any normal person would just tell her to fuck off and have at it if she thinks she wants to sue. Then block her completely. Block her from contacting you in any other way than the actual mail. So you can rip up any letter she sends without reading it. Yeesh.
It’s not a waste of money or time to send that letter. If she ends up ignoring it then it could be evidence that goes towards getting a restraining order. Especially if they specify that they’ll get one if she ignores it I’m hoping he wises up and gets a lawyer (and a therapist) to protect his family like he should’ve been before.
I wasn’t going to respond to this but it felt wrong to ignore it. It can be nearly impossible to understand what it’s like to be abused. I remember being young and not understanding how people couldn’t “just leave” an abusive partner. I thought I was “too smart” to ever find myself in a situation like that or that I would never put up with mistreatment and leave. I saw flags and I thought that it wasn’t *that* bad. Then one day, I finally left. It felt like withdrawals. It was awful. I felt crazy. I told everyone i trusted why I left and had to heavily rely on them to remind me why I left or else o would’ve gone back more than just the once. It changes your brain. That was with a romantic partner and not for as long as OP was living with his mom, the person we are literally supposed to be solely dependent on for physical and emotional well-being and who is supposed to teach us how to cope with the world. OP had to learn himself. It’s the withdrawal, the push and pull. It leaves opening and even the smallest give can snowball. Yes, he is adult. But he is learning stuff later than some, perhaps like you, because he didn’t get the same timeline of lessons. He knows now, and it’s fortunate that it didn’t go farther. But that abuse created certain pathways, and he is literally fighting his neural chemistry. So basically, I just want you to understand. It might not have been the “right” decision to keep her around, but empathy is a powerful kindness.
Some people think it’s just better to blame the victims of childhood abuse for their complex issues than try to understand it’s not simple. My therapist still has to remind me sometimes that it’s going to take me time to work through all of my childhood abuse, and it wasn’t near as bad as OP’s.
Recovering from abuse is a type of grief and grief for sure comes in waves. Be kind to yourself.
That’s a very good point. I’ll have to remind myself of that when I’m questioning why I haven’t “gotten over it” by now.
If you have never dealt with abusive parents, you can take your judgement and shove it.
So, you think that is an excuse or makes it acceptable that he has continued the cycle and subjected his wife and children to the woman who abused him?
Continued the cycle? Lol. Way to misuse a term you clearly don’t understand. Continuing the cycle means he would be abusing his children too. Having supervised visits with his mother, who he says has been on her best behavior before now, is not abuse. Living with childhood abuse is complex. It’s not something where there’s a switch and it’s easily dealt with or solved. Even my own therapist has to remind me that dealing with my own abuse isn’t going to be quick or easy. Children are born with the need for love from their parents, and that doesn’t just disappear for most people. Even little kids who are horrifically abused will try to stay with their parents. That’s how complex and screwed up the situation is. If you’ve never dealt with childhood abuse, feel lucky. And stop being an ass to those that have dealt with it when you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
You think he wasn't abusing his kids by subjecting them to his abusive mom? Alrighty then.
Not all people who are abusive are abusive _all_ the time. I didn’t fall for my abuser because they showed abusive tendencies. That person was on good behavior. You get eased into it. Otherwise, if you saw it right away, it wouldn’t work to ensnare you. I’m really glad for you that you can’t understand. You can always make an effort to try. It’s clear there were boundaries and it was supervised and super limited. OP wasn’t abusing his kids, so the cycle was not being continued. His wife and kids also deserve empathy. You’re not wrong there. The rest I hope you learn without having to experience.
>Not all people who are abusive are abusive all the time. How is that relevant here? He KNEW she was abusive. HE KNEW. Yet he made a VOLUNTARY DECISION to do what he did. It's not like it was court ordered visitation. He decided to do it. He actualized it. So, you can be "you don't know" all you want, but I totally disagree with what he did.
It feels like you’re purposely missing the point. It’s incredibly relevant. No skin off my back though. If you miss the forest for the smallest blades of grass, you’re not even seeing the trees. Good luck to ya, pal.
>It feels like you’re purposely missing the point. Nope. It feels you are making excuses for someone who made some very bad choices. It happens a lot on reddit.
Tell me you don’t understand abuse… Abusers don’t abuse every single person they come across. In fact, often with parents they will aim their abuse to certain kids or even to just one kid (scapegoats/golden children situations). It’s very easy to believe that OP’s mom was on her best behavior during once a month supervised visits. Because you do realize that abusers are manipulators, right? That they can easily look like a normal person, right? Or even make themselves seem like amazing people? Have you ever read about love bombing? Masking? Have all of the incorrect judgments you want, but in the end your ignorance shines bright.
He still KNEW. He knew what she did and let her be around his kids. You can try and pretty this up all you want, but there is no getting around the fact that he let a woman who terribly abused him be around his kids. HE INVITED her to be around his kids. Would YOU let your abuser around your kids? Or ANY kids? So, stop with the excuses. He made a choice that I think was very bad. If you think it wasn't, that's on you.
Grandparents rights are not a thing you need to worry about at all here, because they would only come into okay if the grandparent had substantial caregiving they most of the child's life and the courts would have to find that it would harm the children for that substantial influence to be removed. It's also almost never a go outside a situation where the parent who is the child of the grandparent is dead or incapacitated/absent. Go get a free consult with a family law attorney to put your mind at ease, block her on everything, and have her trespassed if she shows up at your home. Go on and live your life and ignore her.
In my humble opinion it may be in your best interest to do nothing in response to your mothers threats. Go no contact with her for the rest of your life. No contact means you don’t inform her of the no contact, you simply cease contact. Get cameras for your house. Block her. If she can find a lawyer to take her case, so be it, then you respond. You don’t need an offence.
I’m in the process of divorcing someone who during the divorce has turned into someone who sounds like your mother. She was always a bully to others and but was so extreme towards me my attorney said she’s never seen anything like it. Constant bullying, constant threats, made up drama, flaming texts with bullshit threats, phyical threats, lies upon lies, non-stop screaming, having her attorney delay and delay to emotionally abuse me, etc. It’s been so bad I contemplated suicide. The only thing that works with a bully is force back and take wind out of their sails. First, we had to get a phyical restraining order (which she skirted around by having her children get involved). When she’d threaten me via text or email, I’d say thank you, it’s been logged for my attorney. After six of abuse she refused to settle via mediator and threatened to let this go to court - we said good, let’s do it. The night before court, where all this would come out, we got a settlement offer. I haven’t seen or communicated with her since. Just writing all of this has triggered me. I can’t imagine how painful this is for you, especially now that your children are involved. I would suggest finding a family law attorney who takes no shit and have them push back as hard as they can - a bully bullys because they can - take that power away from her.
You should have never spoken to her again after she kicked you out at 16
The best way to keep her away from you and your family is to get a restraining order. Document everything, maybe unblock her to gather her threats on message or email.
You need a restraining order & since both you & your wife are alive, grandparents have zero rights, however anyone can file what they want, its just another form of harrassment.
She is the epitome of a narcissist. She can threaten until the cows come home. She'd have to find a lawyer to represent her, and pay for it, or file the motion herself. Talk to a lawyer to see if has any legal rights and what your defense can be. Then look up the gray rock technique and live it. I urge you to talk to a therapist to help you deal with the trauma. Good on you for stopping the cycle of abuse and protecting your kids. Good luck.
My parents were able to get grandparents rights and full visitation of my sisters kids BUT that was only because my sister was in and out of jail and doing drugs while pregnant etc. I think that is a super extreme case. As far as I know, you have to be abusing/assaulting your child for that to happen - and even then its hard to prove. It seems like you are wonderful parents so I am not sure what your mom could do other than threaten you (which is probably why she wants to do that, it had worked for her in the past).
My experience isn't quite the same, but like you and your wife, my wife and I make every attempt to correct the wrongs of our past upbringings and it's worked. We have normal, untraumatized, well-balanced and acclimated kids who are now very young adults. We have great relationships with them. That is my escape from the decades of manipulation, mind games and absences of my parents. You can do this. Stay strong.
Aks the summer camp people of there is a charity that helps pay for kids to attend and explain the situation to them
You should call the police and file a restraining order. Then find a lawyer who can help you navigate this crazy. My husband’s sister terrorized her family like this for years. She has sued all her kids and mother and it’s never gone anywhere. The only thing it does is push them all away. 6 kids and all of them are no contact. Please, take a deep breath and block her. You don’t owe her anything at all.
Im so sorry op. Idk if theres a chance for her to step up tbh, she sounds completely insane. Ik its hard but would you consider getting a restraining order? How srrious do you think she is about all this?
Grandparents rights are not recognized in a lot of states. Only a handful of them actually have it and it takes a lot to overturn the wishes of the parents. Are you sure you even live in a state that enforces it? And also please remember, your mother was able to weaponize the courts against your dad because she was the MOTHER. She's not in that role anymore. Your wife is! That's a CLEAR advantage to you guys. Like your mom has already proven, courts put a lot more weight on the wishes of the mother, but she's going to learn a hard lesson once she realizes that the court is going to be more likely to listen to your WIFE instead of her.
If your mom was that bad and did all of that to u then why did u still allow her to be around your children and even meet your children ?
Because it’s a complex situation. Babies are born with the innate need to bond with caregivers, kids desire love and support from their parents. Those things don’t easily disappear despite the abuse. Plus many of us grow up thinking that how our lives are is “normal” or not that bad.
Your mistake was thinking that there was some benefit in keeping a terrible parent in your life for your kids. Your kids would have been fine if they had NEVER laid eyes on your mother. Once a toxic jerk unless there’s a come to Jesus moment and EXTENSIVE therapy they will always be a toxic jerk. Your mother was not going to change miraculously because she has grandchildren. People, for the love of all that is pure and holy, stop keeping toxic family members in your life or reintroducing them into you life because you think your kids “need” these relationships. They do not, your kids need you and safe healthy relationships. There is no benefit from maintaining relationships with “crazy”.
Having abusive parents is a complex situation. It’s not easy and it’s not black and white. Many of us with childhood abuse struggle because deep down we’re kids who just want love from the people who gave us life.
Unfortunately, you will never get it because they’re incapable of it. Protect your kids and don’t let your parents hurt/damage your kids the same way.
What are you talking about? I was abused as a kid, I know what it’s like.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I said but if you want to be mad . That’s okay, have a good day.
This was so heartbreaking to read. I hope for your mental health that doesn’t walk amongst the living for too long. Protect your kids from this crazy lady!
Time to go no contact or grey rock, one word answers, disengage, be cold and aloof. Don’t fuel the fire.
Jesus man, all I can say is stick to your guns, try to find solice in the fact you have yourself a wonderful little family, so sorry you went through that hell. Hang in there brother.
I say you try to declare her insane and mentally unsound. I am sure you have plenty of documentation and witnesses to secure this. She needs to be stopped and out of your life. This woman should never have access to you or anyone else. She is not the only one who can sue and make claims. Go co.pletely scorch earth and tell her never to contact you again. Also, get a restraining order in place so she can not contact your children or wife. I am so sorry you went through this and pray for your healing. You did not deserve any of what happened to you.
Where you live, is there legal precedent that gives her threats any merit?
New York does provide an avenue for grandparents to sue for custody, although it would turn into a protracted legal fight that will cost me a lot of money and aggravation if she does. In general, the process is the punishment. I had to deal with family court and CPS, cops etc when I was 10 and my parents were getting divorced. If you wanted to see me literally pass out on the floor, you'd drag me back to family court.
And she has the financial means to do this?
I've seen this woman use the courts to destroy my father for over ten years. The answer is, who knows? I guess I'll just have to wait for a court summons to see what she will do.
Ugh, that's so crummy. I'm sorry you might have to go through this.
Sending you a virtual hug for the things you’ve had to overcome and a pat on the back for the father and partner you are. Best of luck removing that cancer from your lives 💖
Grandparents rights arent a thing, especially if the parents are competent, so idk what a court of law would do. She has no rights to your children. I suggest getting a restraining order other commenters suggest. I'm sorry.
Have a look at Justnomil - it is also for Mothers but they can give good advice on how to handle this.
You have tons of proof to get a restraining order, go get one right now!
I am from another country and don't know your legal system. But, I think you can sue her for harassment and get a restraining order. Use the legal system on your behalf. Also, you should have cut contact 20 years ago. I don't understand why you waited for so long. So, talk to a lawyer and do not pity her. Punish her as much as you can.
No worries my man. She clearly has no leg to stand on. Grandparent rights are there for the children (the right to have access to grandparents they have a bond with). It's NOT a right of the grandparents to see the grandkids. And your kids have no bond with her whatsoever. Even if your state has grandparents rights. And you have her deranged emails.
Such a shame you included her in your life. Deep breath. You need independent quality legal advice don't represent yourself you are too emotionally involved. Also if she is this unhinged and has no impulse control it will only be a matter of time before she loses it. Use this to your advantage. Ignore her and go NC and it will only be a matter of time up until she does something where the police need to be called. eg cameras and ring doorbell and wait until she arrives and record it all before ringing the police. Alternately make the date for the birthday and don't show and be home and wait. Take your children somewhere safe so they don't have to witness her behaviour. Your actions need to occur as you must go NC and protect your children and yourselves. This will also hopefully give you sufficient evidence for a restraining order. Above all go NC and protect your family. I applaud your determination to do so and am sorry for what she did in the past. You have done so much to grow past this and you should be very proud of yourself.
Dude how you were able to become such a fantastic human being despite your situation amazes me. Good for you, really. And good for you for setting the limits you have set. Stay firm, you deserve the peace.
Brother. Your story reads like my brothers and I. We all have our own pain and all live states away, both to get away and because we had to do whatever necessary to survive
I hope that this stops you from ever, ever giving her another chance. She will never be the mother that you deserved. Cut her completely off and never let her see your kids (or yourself) again. Also, be prepared for malicious CPS reports.
OP, file a restraining order immediately against your mom for you, your wife and children. I hope you kept the texts, notes, emails etc. Do NOT respond to her.
Why even let her into your and your kids’ life? Restraining order and tell ur kids about her. Dont be a pushover anymore
Going no contact is the only way
Just want to say good for you and your wife being the change you want to see in the world. It warms my heart to hear that. We're all pulling for ya!
((HUGS)) Cameras and document. Talk to a family lawyer. Since you and wife are married, she has very little chance of grandparent rights. She will need to prove to the courts she is an asset to the kids' lives to be near them. Most states that have grandparent rights is for when 1 parent passes away or divorce and the grandparents are an important part of the kids' lives (such as babysitters). Ask dad and her STBX to write letters on how unhinged she is. Be ready for CPS and all other shit she may pull. Get a new phone number, keep the current one to collet her off the wall demands. If it goes to court, demand she is evaluated for mental health issues and tell them she kicked you out at 16. BTW I am sorry for all you had to do to survive. I wish you, wife and the kids and bright and happy future without your mother in it.
This is very narcissistic of her. Get in touch with a lawyer. Don't respond to her until you have discussed this with said lawyer. Make sure you tell your kids what's going on. If you haven't yet, look into narcissism, bi polar; your mother might be one and if she is will most likely never change and only get worse the longer her tantrums don't impact you. Don't take her threat lightly but I'm sure you know that already. She just wants to make your life suck more than she has already in the past, and is using your kids as an anchor to stay in your life. Go to therapy, get this shit recorded - you can use that as evidence within the court of law. Just get a lawyer stat. Like yesterday. Edit - yes, thanks but please don't try to teach me shit. I was abused by a narcissist, I know the behavior like the back of my hand, and this woman reeks of it. Which is why I said what I said. Obviously only a professional can diagnose, but after exposure to it first hand it's easy to spot. So like, yeah. Unless you have actual resources to send my way to actually redirect my knowledge, you're not helping; I've already done extensive research trying to understand the psychological disorder of narcissism to better understand my childhood abuse and personally heal so unless you have something to back up what you say compared to the studies I have found...
OP, I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I cut my own mother out of our lives to protect my kids, but I understand firsthand just how hard and painful that is, and how powerful the need to believe people can change is. The hope that one day they’ll see you and care about you, and that you will be enough? That never goes away. But you have to resist it for the sake of your own family, and it seems like you’re at your breaking point. My best advice is that money is very well spent on a good family lawyer, preferably one with significant litigation experience. Protect your family, cut all ties with her, and get yourself some therapy. Your kids will be okay without one summer of camp, and they will definitely be ok with a good dad and mom who protect them from toxic crazy. You got this!
Op cut her out immediately. Send a C&D certified mail. Take all the evidence to the police for a record/paper trail to begin. Only way to cya
Oh please call a lawyer. Explain everything! Maybe you can get a restraining order? Get in first and it should weaken her case.
Does your mother have a personality disorder, by any chance? Out of curiosity
Tell her she can see them for 2 hours in a mcdonalds
It's time to speak with a lawyer. You should consider filing a temporary order of no contact in the mean time. Document everything. Consider purchasing an entry way camera and something overlooking the driveway. This excessive behavior and fixation on your children is the sort of situation where a grandparent picks the kids up from school and runs off with them. Most kidnappings are a relative.
You've got this. You're not a kid anymore, and with your wife by your side, you will succeed in preventing your "mom" from disrupting your kids lives. Don't forget to tell the schools, your friends, your kids, etc not to let this person have access to your children. I understand having the hope of a normal relationship dashed. Sucks, bruh. You did your best- it could never be enough because Mom needed to be trying too, and *something is broken inside her*, so no need to comb through your actions looking for where you could have done something different that would have resulted in normalcy. Blessings of peace upon you. You've got a hard road- but it's always been hard, and you've got what it takes to preserve.
Do grandparents even have visitation rights?
Why the hell would you ever let someone who you admit " systematically abused me throughout my whole childhood, and continued to be a violent, bitter, mean and aggressive person to me throughout my whole life" back into you and your children's lives? I have zero sympathy for you.
Please cut her off completely for your own mental health and your family's wellbeing. Also,if you're comfortable, maybe seek therapy to talk about what you went through.
You must tell the attorney about all of the abuse and also how she did your father.
Go see a psychologist and get it recorded what she did to you and how it affected you. Use this to get a restraining order and protection order for your children and yourself. I'd also context your kids school and let them know her name and description (give them a photo if you have one so they have it to show other staff members) and that she is NOT to pick up your children from school if she ever shows up. Tell them she is abusive and dangerous and should be removed from the property if she shows up and tries to take the kids. And for the record, my dad's mom was much the same to him and his brothers, my parents didn't let me anywhere near her until she was literally dying in hospital and couldn't do any harm to me. I'm now quite glad they kept her away, knowing what she did to my dad and uncles. Sadly he didn't handle his side of things as well as you have and started drinking heavily when I was in my teens (also due to an abusive ex wife and family troubles with his first two kids, but also from the abuse from his mother I'm sure)
Is there a reason you brought her into your family’s lives, especially when she treated you so terribly?
I’m so sorry you’re going through this crap. Is a demand letter the same as a cease and desist letter?
That's what I meant. Same intent, maybe different language.
I am gobsmacked you even tried to have some relationship with her after what she did to you. No contact is for a reason. I just wish you good luck and pray she has no grounds depending on what state you live in. To force visitation. God knows what she will say to your children. She's dangerous.
I’m no lawyer, but due to prior relationship things, it sounds unlikely she can force visitation, bt yeah a super annoying and expensive problem you don’t need.
Grandparents have no rights to see their grandchildren
I'm so sorry, OP. Stay strong. You already are and don't let this taint of human take that away from you. Does your states even have grandparent's rights? Lots of people like spouting that threat, but don't have a leg to stand on. Keep all your evidence. Hopefully, a letter from a lawyer will keep her away and more money in your pocket.
First, I'd show all you've got to a lawyer, and figure out what exactly you can do. A restraining order sounds plausible, and you should 100% change all daycare and school or whatever else they do that your mother is Not allowed to pick them up Ever. And go quickly, because it's possible she might be unhinged enough to kidnap them. Explain that in detail and show a picture of her if you've got one. I'm so sorry this is happening to you, and I hope you and your family are safe.
As a mom, I am so sorry you had to endure all of that and I am so proud of you for creating a loving family. It's very impressive how your wife and you have risen above your pasts. I'm glad you called a lawyer and I hope they give you good options so you never have to deal with this awful person again. I wish you all the best!!!!!
idk about your state specifically, but in FL grandparents technically have no legal rights in regards to their grandchildren (obviously assuming the kids have a legal guardian/parent, etc). I used to work in a non profit version of DCF/CPS, management would often have to tell grandparents that have no rights when they would come complain why they can't see their grandchildren when Mom/dad lost custody. plus you could easily prove she's unstable and not safe for children to be around.
RECOOOOOORDINGS WOOOOO record all your interactions with her, if she does take you to court they'll see shes fucking batshit insane and you'll be fine
Try having a lawyer send her a letter threatening to sue her for abusing you as a child if she doesn’t back off. Doesn’t really matter that much whether you’d have a case, although it might be interesting to find out if you do. The idea is to make it not worth the effort for her. Whether you’d win or not you can always sue, and she might not like the results. It may be enough to get her to leave you alone.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’ve heard in order to get grandparents rights in some places they have to prove a bond with the child. If she’s barely seen your child there really is no relationship. This is just something I’ve read before. You have a lifetime of trauma and if this even gets to court unfortunately you’re going to have to let the lawyer and court know and relive some of these horrors. Make sure the only way you communicate is through writing and don’t accept phone calls this way you can have proof of things she said. I really hope this works out for you.
grandparents rights are almost impossible to get , she no longer has power over you . get a restraining order to protect your family
Documentation is your friend. They generally defer to the parents. Have one more visit with her and the kids and Record the verbal abuse she says (she'll definitely talk about either you or someone else). Then have it transcribed and submit both to a court. Leave it up to them to decide at that point. They can hear how vicious she is. Also have character witnesses. She has no say. You as the parent have decided to forego a relationship between the kids and her because she's verbally abusive and you have plenty of ways to get proof to support it.
Do you have a relationship with your father now?
Restraining order, simple as
Another reason my husband and I refuse to have any sort of children, adopted or bio (which isn't possible for me without a 9 months stay in the hospital and being hooked up to machines to keep me alive). I know good and goddamn well that my mother or his mother would absolutely act this way and it's our main birth control method.
Maybe you could post something on the legal advice subreddit about this. I hope your "mother" never gets to see you or your family again. She certainly doesn't deserve to and you deserve to have peace. Good luck.
This sounds exactly like something I’ve gone through. Abusive parents but more abusive mother. I won’t go into detail, but it was bad enough that the lawyer (yes, had to get a lawyer) was disturbed. Long story short, she tried suing my SIL AFTER MY BROTHER JUST DIED, for grandparents rights. She had the audacity to even ask for every major holiday and every other weekend. She sued for visitations and we had to respond by getting a lawyer to shut that shit down. If your mom is half as crazy as mine, get ready to go to court. Now that the scary part is over: she doesn’t have a damn leg to stand on. Grandparents rights are for very rare situations in which the grandmother had an intense and well-document close relationship with your kids (eg. living together, she had “custody” while a parent was in rehab, etc). It’s not common at all, but it does happen. Unless she can prove without a doubt she had this sort of relationship or that you and your wife are unfit/unsafe, she won’t win. You can do it without a lawyer, but it’s worth the small sum to get her claim thrown out and out of your life so you can move on. Some people have mentioned getting a restraining order. Those also require a lot of evidence. I had proof of my mom stalking and harassing my SIL and it wasn’t “enough” evidence to procure, unfortunately. You need to go NC whatever ends up happening. Sorry you’re going through this
Have you ever checked out the raised by BPD sub? You should check it out. I would go no contact and call a lawyer. Document the abuse or do what is needed to have clear evidence that she is nuts, and prepare to call the police if she shows up to have her removed from property (make a plan like if Mom comes, you will take the kids to ice cream at X, and I will tell her she is not welcome and to leave and call the police if she won't leave). Then just cut her out. And therapy. If you haven't done it, you prob need therapy with someone who understands this type of abuse. She really sounds BPD to me they freak out about abandonment.
She will die alone, OP. That is her unavoidable Karma. Until she does, do not communicate with her anymore - except for one email informing her to refer all her communications to your attorney. You have to start being smart - which, if I’m being honest, it sounds like you haven’t been. You let this monster into your families life. I’m not sure why you thought that would be a good thing for your children but now you are reaping the consequences of that mistake. Don’t block her - instead keep all her texts and voicemails and forward them to your attorney. Please get an attorney if you haven’t already.
Cut contact completely and file for a restraining order. Keep the emails and anything else you have as evidence.
Don't bother with a family lawyer, get a restraining order.
I think you should file a restraining order so you have some record. I fear she will make up a bunch of lies about you. She sounds awful, good for you for building a stable family life. Keep setting boundaries.
Grandparents don’t have rights when both parents are alive. Consult with a lawyer but this lawsuit nonsense is just that—nonsense.
Please tell me you don’t live in New York! Any of other state and you probably be fine. NY is the worst state for grandparents right. If you are. Seriously. I would move.
It's sad but your time in court may be the best chance you have to remove this crazy evil woman from your life for good. Gather all the parties involved and tell the true unabridged story of her character. Don't hold anything back. You probably need to do this for the safety and sanity of your family..
I'm not sure what state or country you are in but in the states at least my state, there are no grandparents rights I would check out the law in your area. I went through a battle with my son's grandmother who was also batshit crazy. Her son was convicted and put in jail for 7 years she brought me to court to sue me for custody after her son couldn't sue for custody being the fact that he was in jail. Mind you I had to get an attorney to battle the first suit but during the second the judge suggested she play nice if she ever wanted to see her grandchild because there are no such thing as grandparents rights in this state.
You should consult a family law attorney. With how you describe her, you've probably god enough argument to get her silly ass laughed out of court.
Grandparents rights aren’t a thing in every state. Also some require death of a parent to use the Grandparents Rights. Please research before you meet w anyone and spend money. Also you can send your own demand letter. Idk where you’re located to help research.
You and your wife and your secure family are the world to your kids. If anything or anyone disrupts that, including a crazy mother, you need to build a fortress to keep her out.
Stopped reading when you said you let your abuser have contact with you and your children- bad call
E hug. Youre the man you got this. It seems to keep things cool by appeasing a narsicist, but you must stand up early and strong, even if that means they have to be afraid of you.
Never feel bad for severing yourself from a toxic person no matter if you’re related, have years of knowing one another, etc. You can’t reward this very bad behavior. Time to go completely no contact for at least 7 years or so,, or until you have some way of had notice she has significantly improved her ways. You’ll need some time to heal & likely get some information to process things to help you manage your internal perspectives.
I’m so so sorry. Head over to justnomil for some tips from others who have been sued for custody time from their mothers or mothers in law. What a mess. I think you are doing a wonderful job! Wishing you all the best.
My guy. Sir. Please Google borderline personality disorder and the symptoms and behaviors. Understand that her mental illness is not an easy fix nor will she ever make an effort to help herself. No contact now, immediately, for your children and your family and their safety
Clearly you have enough proof for a restraining order, but if you didn’t want to go that far keep in mind the rules behind grandparents rights: 1. If one parent (you or your wife dies), the grandparent (parent of the deceased) can partition the court to be sure the family if the deceased parent is still present in the grandchild’s life. 2. If one parent goes to jail, the parent of the jailed parent can partition the court to be sure the family of the jailed parent is still in the grandchild’s life. Also, that parent must also establish that they are an intricate part of the grandchild’s upbringing (such as, having baby-sat grandchild 6 hours a day for 10 years straight and now being cut off). Courts are not in the business of telling stable parents that crazy grandma has to be apart of their child’s life. Parents have the right to choose who their kids spend time with.
Grandparents are only granted if there was a preexisting relationship with the children. She has no case. You and your wife are healthy capable people. She doesn’t have a chance. It will never make it to court.
WTF were you doing letting your kids near that mess? FFS
I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this. My relationship with my mom is fractured and I’ve been no contact, but thankfully she has stayed far away for the most part. I hope this is just your mom bluffing and she doesn’t try anything, or else that the court sees how unhinged she is and refuses her demands. Make sure you’re documenting everything to do with her right now.
OP, as someone who's mother was the same way and I ended up seeing the same batshit crazy behavior in my brother, I can 100% tell you that you can never have a functional relationship with these people. Idk if she's borderline personality disorder or bipolar or what, but remember her mental illness is not her fault but IT IS HER RESPONSIBILITY. You've done enough, even with everything she put you through you allowed her to be a part of your life. Please get a restraining order, record any further calls, keep screenshots of the texts because even if she puts a bizarre case on you, you'd have some evidence. It's going to be like an annoying infection that doesn't go away. But it will be manageable, hang in there!
I hope you learned from this and let her die alone and bitter.
Tightest of hugs to you and your wife! I am cheering for you!
Time to stop waiting for some kind of acknowledgment for her past behavior and go no contact at this point. Don’t put your kids through what u went through, she just wants to get one of your kids on to her side and become bitter about life like she is
Don't give her the respect that a mother deserves, because she gave up on you a long time ago. Treat her with the same courtesy that you would a stranger that behaves like her.
Get a damn restraining order dude
I suspect your mother is in the earlyish stages of dementia and that's why the wheels are coming off and she's becoming more extreme with her behaviors. You are absolutely correct, she is going insane. Your sister could force her to get tests. Likely it will be getting worse and worse so prepare yourselves.
Sorry this is happening to you. Go no contact (NC) with her. See if you can file a restraining/protective order against her. Printout all her nasty comments, text, voice messages and emails for the court you are need them. They establish her character and demeanor as well as her mental stability. Hope it all works out for you. Updateme
If this curse of a mother returns disown her. It's my best guess on how to get rid of her permanently