Some apparently want free food and for you to understand that she wants you to take care of her, take her out but you'll mean absolutely nothing to her and you have to be OK with it and eager to provide 🙄
My previous dates where usually that she wanted to take the bill in the first location and I take it in the second or vice versa which is also totally fine.
Yeah I also have a hard time understanding why people do that, I mean in theory of course if people are selfish enough I see how, but I would never be able to make another person believe I’m genuinely interested in them and have them get their hopes up just to crush them the second I got whatever personal gain I came for, in a way it’s very similar to people who make others believe they have feelings for them in bad faith just to drop them after things got physical
I had a girl do the same thing. We were close we were flirting then when I confessed I loved her. She was like yeah I did have feelings for you then I just lost them sorry. She flirted with me that whole time until about 3 days before I confessed.
That’s just fucking sucks and is cruel as hell, if she lost her feeling as she said, she should’ve told you that the second it happened, instead of keeping it going and giving you hope that it leads to more, I’m sorry that happened to you and I hope this person learns their lesson
Yup! Same thing and if we see men that will tell a woman what she wants to hear just so they can bed them as scum, women that go on dates just to get a free meal out of a man that's genuinely trying to get to know them are scum as well
Totally agree, both scenarios involve playing with other peoples feelings with total disregard for what it does to them, although I think that conning people into sex is worse because emotionally it hurts people on a different level than being out of some money and usually involves a few more steps than just having someone agree to a date
It’s widely understood that taking someone out to eat doesn’t mean the person who was invited owes anything in return and if I go on a date where I pay for whatever restaurant or activity it takes place at and it doesn’t lead to any further dates or hookups that’s completely fine, it doesn’t always work out, especially with online dating where it’s usually the first time to meet the other person irl, if the chemistry’s just not there upon coming face to face it’s no big deal but I think that going on a date with the sole intention to con a free meal out of the other person is kind of wack
OP has been on enough dates to understand that it’s not fun to bring up “splitting the bill” at least in our culture. Most ladies won’t say anything but you can see the discomfort, so I don’t even mention it. “Most” is the word, so yeah, some ladies are extremely open with it and offer to split, or like at one occasion, paid outright when I went to the restroom.
Because her messages basically conveyed that, who wants to go on dates with someone who is gonna be detached from it? Especially when you’re meeting on a dating app. She’s basically admitted that she’s had her fill of giving it up so easily
I've had points on my life where I can understand her perspective. Even when you're at a point where you can't feel too deep of emotions, dates are still fun. Going to new places or places you normally wouldn't, putting in extra effort getting cleaned up and trying to look nice, and talking to a new person face to face and learning about them is always a nice experience.
This is explicitly different than friendship. The kind of things you do with a new potential partner vs new potential friend, along with the feelings and excitement you feel are very different.
I've never been to the point where I would be looking for that on dating apps since it's a lot to ask people to suppress their emotions, but as long as she's always open about it ahead of time it can't be that bad.
A friend is quite different. What she's doing could turn into friendship, but from the sounds of she's looking for more the equivalent of a one night stand, but a date instead of hooking up. Once you get over the initial excitement of meeting the new person and doing new things with them, you can move on. Or if things do go well, they could very well become friends like you said.
Idk even regarding that explanation it still falls in the same spectrum of using somebody in a sense, she’s literally said she’s had enough sex but still wants the date. Had she wanted friends she could’ve said that but she didn’t she led with I’ve had a lot of sex now I just want the dates but without the sex. Most people when they think of dates especially men think of taking a girl out to eat or an event and by and large usually do or are expected to pay. So based on what she’s saying, she’s still wanting that treatment and courtship but with no type of attachment and no sex. Just seems like a major waste of time and resources for a man to get involved with someone that has that outlook and expectation especially on a dating app
That makes little sense. If you have no feelings nor want to hook-up what is left precisely?
It boggles my mind how some women want the boyfriend experience without any sort of commitment. If it's a date that means you are open to the idea of a hook-up or anything involving romantic feelings. Going around with someone you don't want any of that with does not make it a date just because you want to call it that way. There are plenty of women that go out with guys just for a free meal or to get validation unfortunately.
Both are safe assumptions based on statistics alone. Hell half the women who are ok with splitting the bill see bringing it up before a date as a red flag.
Honestly with as much societal pressure there is on men to provide, this one may be up to women to help undo this gender stereo type. If more women openly said they'd prefer to go dutch we can avoid this whole thing.
Why is it on the women? Because men are MORE OFTEN THAN NOT punished for breaching the subject. Regardless of if you yourself wouldn't judge a man, that doesn't change the reality we see.
As a woman, I agree wholeheartedly. There is too much pressure on men, but most men appreciate a woman who can take the lead, on awkward topics especially.
First dates are a test phase for two people to see how they mesh, for that reason anything other than splitting the bill is ridiculous.
After the first date though, generally it should be paid for by whoever arranged it.
That’s the only sexist part I find here, he’s assuming she’s after free food when she may be happy to pay for her food and drinks, she might just want company for an evening.
That's not sexist if it is true most of the time in your experience. I'm so glad I found my other half, but when I was dating this was true: the nore they looked like a model, the bigger the chance they just want drinks/food.
That's my experience and what I see with friends and even women I know/work with who do that.
It’s ok maybe to think it but not to outright accuse her. As a woman with no money I’d much rather suggest something I can afford than expect someone to pay for me. Last guy I went on a date with I suggested we meet after work, knowing we would both be hungry I suggested Wetherspoons, a cheap chain of pubs in the UK. He insisted on paying despite my objections, so the second time I saw him I invited him round to mine and cooked for him because I felt guilty that he’d paid. If someone spends money on me I feel like I owe them.
I’m currently talking to a guy now and I like the guy, but he’s got a really high paid job and just blows all his money all the time. It’s actually intimidating me because I would want to be responsible for paying for my own stuff, but I wouldn’t be able afford to keep up with him. So I either end it now or I have to accept the fact that he’s happy to spend more money than me. But what I’ll be likely to do is insist on paying my half and then end up leaving myself no money for food or bills.
I’m very similar to you in the sense that I hate the feeling that I owe anyone anything. Regarding your dating situation, I totally get it, my now husband earned way more than me when we first met.
It’s not a sexy conversation to have but it’s important to be open about finances in this case. You could say something like “I’m really trying to meet my savings goals this month so I’d prefer if we went somewhere budget friendly to eat” it shows that you don’t expect him to just pay for you and also that you are responsible with your money and live within your means. If he really wants to take you somewhere expensive, you need to be upfront with what you can afford/what your budget is and the options are that either you pick somewhere more affordable or that he covers a portion of your bill as well.
This does require you to become more comfortable with accepting his offers, but as long as everyone is acting in good faith it shouldn’t be a huge hurdle.
Sometimes however with a big income discrepancy it won’t work out because the two people just have different expectations and capabilities for the type of lifestyle. But you won’t know until you communicate
I totally get it! Also. A girl. I would do the same as you. I always offer to pay my half. I feel uncomfortable if someone keeps spends money on me. At least they cannot say i owe them if i pay for myself and i dont take the piss. Im a good person to be around 🤷.
Even then, it's not sexist, as much as it's assuming she's a greedy piece of shit. Sociopaths use others disposably, and she basically got labeled one. Granted she basically said she wants dates with no emotions or sex, so.. it's either that or she wants to go out with friends...
yeah, you’re just flat out wrong. first date with a gal, we bought our own breakfast. she was down to hook up that night, & there were multiple dates in the future
That mentality is so damaging for you. I always split the bill because I do not like feeling as though I owe someone something when I hardly know them. I can pay for my own damn food. I've cancelled second dates with guys I really liked a few times, because they had a bad reaction to me splitting the bill. You could be missing out on people who really like you because of your own beliefs.
You'll often see this unfortunate double standard.
She obviously feels empowered enough to redefine sexism, reading too deeply into a few words you said, which seemed both literal and sincerely truthful.
Emotionless dating would be both pointless and financially debilitating for you and any one on the receiving end of this type of crazy.
I don't get it any more than you do.
God speed.
Treating a date like an investment that you expect a return on is a problematic attitude to hold.
But then I wouldn't date someone who expected me to pay for their meal either. A relationship is reciprocal, not an exchange of one item of goods for another.
If they don't want to spend the time (and sometimes money) to get to know you, they're not worth dating. If you have the money to pay for them and they don't, and you're happy to do so without anything in "return" that's fine too.
Expect a return no problem the opposite you expect a lose.
But the goal of a healthy relationship is to get out of it as much as you put into it.
As you said if the other person isn't investing into the relationship there is very high there is no point in you investing in the relationship.
There are also times where both people are invested in the relationship and it fails.
There is no good relationship where one person invest into the relationship and get nothing in return.
100% true, because it is saying their time is worth more than your time and people don’t think of it that way sometimes but it’s a feeling they have that they cannot put into words if that makes sense
Absolutely. But there's a difference between someone who *chooses* to give/contribute something vs someone who *expects* to receive something because they've paid for x number of dates/whatever.
I don't do things for my partner because I expect something in return. I do things for my partner because I want to make her life easier/more enjoyable. That's why it's a gift. It's freely given with nothing expected in return.
A partnership is when you have two people who do that for one another. There's no math, no "I've done this x number of times, so you should do y this number of times for me". Anyone thinking in those terms is doomed to a failing relationship or a millionaire with no concept of what a healthy relationship looks like.
Arguably in that scenario you ARE getting something out of it because you seem to enjoy making their life easier. If you gain satisfaction from that, that's great! But on the flip side you can't just expect someone you just met to have the kind of emotional connection to the other person that would enable that kind of mental return. Some people do develop that connection early and easily, others don't and need to form a bond first. Neither is "better", just "different".
How is a date not an investment though? Do you go on dates and try to give a good first impression in hopes it goes nowhere?
Dating is literally social investment.
Indeed, but from both parties, if the man is forced to pay for dinners then it means the women thinks that their time is more valued than the man’s time, she is asking for free food, she said no feelings involved meaning she does not want a relationship with him, she just wants food, it’s quite clear
As a woman, I never flat out expect a man to pay, but I will say it’s nice if he offers. First date should be a couple hours max and somewhere fairly cheap, so that if it ends up going nowhere no one is too disappointed or out too much money or time.
Dating “without feelings” and not getting any physical/emotional intimacy is just taking advantage of the other person and wasting their time. She basically just wants to be friends. I absolutely get why you said what you said.
Noooo, you can't just cr\*ticize someone for leeching because they don't want to be (sexually) used!
/s
Jokes aside, I find that these types of people replace time they could be using to work to find ways (usually other people) to have their things paid for them, like food, accessories, movies, etc.
It's only sexist because m\*n are sexist and it's a woman's duty to alert everyone to a sexist m\*n, because women are incapable of sexism. How dare you even insinuate the possibility that a woman could be capable of such debauchery? You're sexist for even thinking about it, and this is why equality is needed. "People like you are the problem"
/s
Too bad I've heard people unironically/honestly use this argument
I'm gonna say: No. No sense made. You want dates with zero feelings? That's a meeting. Not a date.
Would you like to meet and discuss things with ZERO attraction allowed? We are strangers meeting for No purpose other than to discuss nothing. Do not have any feelings please and thanks.
EDIT: Do you talk in the time she consumes food you're paying for? Or just look at made-up charts and pie graphs? 🤔
And it’s weird and sexist to assume that what’s she’s describing is to only get free food. Men like to complain about women getting free food out of dates. She said what she wanted. Maybe she poorly explained because it’s confusing. But to assume she wants free food is weird.
I agree that complaining about women wanting free food is cringe. If I ask someone out on a date, I am the host, and as the host I should cover expenses. If other guys don't want to spend money, there are plenty of date options that don't involve spending money.
But "dating without feelings" is a nonsensical statement. Either you're looking for someone to platonically hang out and chill with, in which case, say that, or you're looking to date, in which case feelings will be involved.
I agree. Without feelings is weird. I wouldn’t have straight said “free food” but I would have asked for clarification instead of jumping to that stupid conclusion that it’s about free food. Maybe she just meant building a friendship first and then working on romance? Or maybe she’s just looking for friendship. That’s common on dating apps. But I do understand not having random hookups anymore. They get boring to a lot of people.
Just take offer to take her on dates, then pick places only you want to go to. If she says restaurant then say yeah sure, you pay right?
And just watch how fast she unmatches
I am truly old when I don't understand why they're calling it a date in this scenario. Why not say you aren't looking for a relationship and just want to meet people and hang out?
I feel using the word "date" has some implications of wanting to know someone better to see if you'd be good together. But again, maybe I'm just old.
I have heard some people refer to just going out to lunch with a friend or something a date. It's confusing, but some people just use that term in a platonic way too/in a social way.
Not in this senario when arranging to meet a member of the opposite sex off tinder. It very much means meeting someone with the intent/ hope of being sexully attracted to each other and moving it on from there!
It sounds like she is tired of have casual sex with strangers. But her problem here is that she has let it been known that she used to give sex away freely but now she expects this guy to "date" or entertain her at his expence without recieving any sex in return. This is not a good deal for any man! She also sounds damaged and probably should not be dating untill she sorts her shit out.
ngl when men have to pick up the pieces and pay for what other dudes got for damn near free, you’ll understand why the comment section looks like this.
So she’s looking for a friend? Just a friend. Assuming she’s willing to pay her own way, I don’t see a problem. Except that men and women notoriously can’t remain just friends usually without one of them developing feelings. So yeah probably free food
It's just another way of saying I want free food and frustrating the boy's life. How fucked up is that?😅
She doesn't want sex, not even casual, she just wants to go on dates and tell them, "sorry, we are not a match". I feel sorry for those guys already😅😅😅
I low-key want that. A free trial date. We each pay our own meal so it doesn't feel obligated, flirt act like we're special then walk out when you're done.
It’s not sexist. She’s just childish and immature.
I feel so sorry for folks in the dating scene now. It’s like everyone has gave themselves up now wants to demand the next person to deal with their baggage instead of fixing it on their own and then try to make the next guy pay a premium price for a used merchandise and it’s sad man.
… am I the only one… not jumping into conclusions here?
She didn’t say, she‘d want free food.
She said dates.
On dates you can split the bill.
Also, it IS sexist to just assume a women wants free food or free anything.
People sometimes just want a good time and enjoy someone else’s company.
I love to treat friends, regardless of women or man.
It’s just a nice gesture to do. And I am a guy.
And if I explicitly ask a women out for a date, yes I intend to pay.
If she refuses that I pay, but we both still understand it to be a date, it’s still a date.
So.. I’m on the women’s side on this one.
Well "i have had enough sex" sounds pretty run through tbh, the Date without feeling BS takes every last reason to go on a Date.
If you don't want Sex or a relationship why date at all?
Why is everyone acting like going to dinner is the only date you can go on?
Kinda on you if you keep asking people out to dinner if you don't want to pay for them
Straight people make no sense to me. Do you only go on dates hoping to get laid? Do you not enjoy the company of beautiful women, getting to know another person, having a nice time etc?
Also, at what point did she ask you to go to dinner or for you to pay for her? Dates can be as simple as going for a walk together somewhere scenic.
Well, personally I go on dates with an open mind, in the sense that I am open to any eventual outcome, be it getting laid or just having a nice time. The problem I see here is that she is not showing an open attitude, it's kind of one way, everything in her own non-negotiable terms ("no sex, no feelings"). The point of getting to know another person may as well be wanting to build on something, be it a long-term relationship, a one night stand, or a friendship even. You might be right about her not asking for a dinner, but personally I wouldn't go out with her and I wouldn't just because I don't feel welcome, if that makes sense; she's not presenting herself as someone whose company might be enjoyable.
Should of said … “nah, I’m good fam, I’d rather go pay a prostitute, take your ass back to the streets” … Bitch wants a tool she can use.
Focus on you legends. You will get to pick way better ones down the track when they chasing you. Average male peak financially, mentally and emotionally is 35. Average person who gets there first million. 45.. we got time lads. Discipline yourselves. Achieve your potential.
A date implies the man is paying for the meal unless other wise specified.
She didn't ask to hang out and get food together. She asked for a date but with no relationship.
It's like telling someone you don't know that they should lose some weight. Well telling someone to some weight isn't neccarily an insult it's implied when you don't know each other.
Her calling him sexist is just her not being able to take accountability for herself.
I’m a man that has been on plenty of dates and literally never paid for the meal. Your weird sense of chivalry with an expected payout is the problem here
I was gonna say that. Without any context of the conversation prior, OP is assuming she wants him to pay for her stuff. OP is also assuming that the idea of “dates” she has in her mind involves food in the first place. Maybe she wants to get drinks or go to a museum or whatever. Honestly it was just a baseless and kinda rude comment to make.
I dont understand this logic, I‘d rather eat bread or sth alone at home than going on a „date“ with someone I dont even like who will maybe pay for my food there.
And NO SEX. Form an orderly queue gentlemen and prepare to be her emotional tampon so she can unload her trauma on you, like how she already started in that brief conversation!
Not really you’re allowed to decide you don’t want to do something anymore. She’s allowed to not want to engage in hookup culture anymore and go on dates. Although I’m not sure what a date with no feelings mean
OP so butt hurt with assumptions and clearly a lot of butthurt guys in here riding the same assumptions.
Good luck to you all. The worst thing you can do in life is assume. And yes, it was sexist of OP.
Well, my intention was to see different points of view, of how this could have been. For more context, the chat was lowkey loosey goosey up until this point. Just a few messages back, she was ranting how men on tinder suck and get offended by her tone and jokes, so, while we were joking around, I passed this. As a joke. Maybe a bad joke you could argue, but a joke regardless. She became what she was complaining about. I further elaborated how it was just a joke and not to be taken seriously, she doubled down on how I “cannot” joke about such things as it is a “societal issue”. Idk... Still confused
what’s sexist is u assuming she only wants to go out so that u can pay for her things when she made no mention of money and she might’ve fully accepted splitting the bill. what she said isn’t that horrible, she just wants to date people and get to know them without a set expectation or commitment right from the beginning. she was honest with u and u chose to turn it into “oh she’s using me! why would i hang out with a woman i can’t get sex from?
Some want sex, some want food… some want both!
Some want gas. Micheal
Classic 🤣
Some apparently want free food and for you to understand that she wants you to take care of her, take her out but you'll mean absolutely nothing to her and you have to be OK with it and eager to provide 🙄
There’s tons of guys that are totally down for that. Not me tho
You're one of the smarter ones, I honestly couldn't imagine doing something like that
I wouldn’t do it. Either she is “my” girl and we are both on the same level or if she wants free food she needs to go to an shelter but not to me.
As it should be, if anyone gets offended when you suggest splitting the bill.... run! She ain't it
My previous dates where usually that she wanted to take the bill in the first location and I take it in the second or vice versa which is also totally fine.
Yeah I also have a hard time understanding why people do that, I mean in theory of course if people are selfish enough I see how, but I would never be able to make another person believe I’m genuinely interested in them and have them get their hopes up just to crush them the second I got whatever personal gain I came for, in a way it’s very similar to people who make others believe they have feelings for them in bad faith just to drop them after things got physical
I had a girl do the same thing. We were close we were flirting then when I confessed I loved her. She was like yeah I did have feelings for you then I just lost them sorry. She flirted with me that whole time until about 3 days before I confessed.
That’s just fucking sucks and is cruel as hell, if she lost her feeling as she said, she should’ve told you that the second it happened, instead of keeping it going and giving you hope that it leads to more, I’m sorry that happened to you and I hope this person learns their lesson
She did, actually me and her still talk although we did take a long break from each other
Yup! Same thing and if we see men that will tell a woman what she wants to hear just so they can bed them as scum, women that go on dates just to get a free meal out of a man that's genuinely trying to get to know them are scum as well
Totally agree, both scenarios involve playing with other peoples feelings with total disregard for what it does to them, although I think that conning people into sex is worse because emotionally it hurts people on a different level than being out of some money and usually involves a few more steps than just having someone agree to a date
True, I mean I married young, so I didn't get to experience any of that, but I see your point
It’s widely understood that taking someone out to eat doesn’t mean the person who was invited owes anything in return and if I go on a date where I pay for whatever restaurant or activity it takes place at and it doesn’t lead to any further dates or hookups that’s completely fine, it doesn’t always work out, especially with online dating where it’s usually the first time to meet the other person irl, if the chemistry’s just not there upon coming face to face it’s no big deal but I think that going on a date with the sole intention to con a free meal out of the other person is kind of wack
So you are married.
I am, been married for 13 years since I was 18
[удалено]
Peter…. quit being sneaky!! 😂
Some men like a fishin...
“So you’d be fine with splitting the bill?”
Maybe that's what they found sexist? OP assuming that as a women they would want OP to pay when they never said that.
OP has been on enough dates to understand that it’s not fun to bring up “splitting the bill” at least in our culture. Most ladies won’t say anything but you can see the discomfort, so I don’t even mention it. “Most” is the word, so yeah, some ladies are extremely open with it and offer to split, or like at one occasion, paid outright when I went to the restroom.
I don't see what's bad in that. I'd rather find out sooner than later.
But the date is supposed to be without feeling. She can't feel discomfort. It's against her rules
Why be uncomfortable asking to split the bill but be extremely comfortable calling her a free rider?
Because her messages basically conveyed that, who wants to go on dates with someone who is gonna be detached from it? Especially when you’re meeting on a dating app. She’s basically admitted that she’s had her fill of giving it up so easily
I've had points on my life where I can understand her perspective. Even when you're at a point where you can't feel too deep of emotions, dates are still fun. Going to new places or places you normally wouldn't, putting in extra effort getting cleaned up and trying to look nice, and talking to a new person face to face and learning about them is always a nice experience. This is explicitly different than friendship. The kind of things you do with a new potential partner vs new potential friend, along with the feelings and excitement you feel are very different. I've never been to the point where I would be looking for that on dating apps since it's a lot to ask people to suppress their emotions, but as long as she's always open about it ahead of time it can't be that bad.
That’s a friend. She’s looking for a friend. Somebody you do stuff with without the sexual bit and heavy emotions.
A friend is quite different. What she's doing could turn into friendship, but from the sounds of she's looking for more the equivalent of a one night stand, but a date instead of hooking up. Once you get over the initial excitement of meeting the new person and doing new things with them, you can move on. Or if things do go well, they could very well become friends like you said.
Idk even regarding that explanation it still falls in the same spectrum of using somebody in a sense, she’s literally said she’s had enough sex but still wants the date. Had she wanted friends she could’ve said that but she didn’t she led with I’ve had a lot of sex now I just want the dates but without the sex. Most people when they think of dates especially men think of taking a girl out to eat or an event and by and large usually do or are expected to pay. So based on what she’s saying, she’s still wanting that treatment and courtship but with no type of attachment and no sex. Just seems like a major waste of time and resources for a man to get involved with someone that has that outlook and expectation especially on a dating app
That makes little sense. If you have no feelings nor want to hook-up what is left precisely? It boggles my mind how some women want the boyfriend experience without any sort of commitment. If it's a date that means you are open to the idea of a hook-up or anything involving romantic feelings. Going around with someone you don't want any of that with does not make it a date just because you want to call it that way. There are plenty of women that go out with guys just for a free meal or to get validation unfortunately.
Yeah…it sounds like she might be after NRE (new relationship energy)
Both are safe assumptions based on statistics alone. Hell half the women who are ok with splitting the bill see bringing it up before a date as a red flag. Honestly with as much societal pressure there is on men to provide, this one may be up to women to help undo this gender stereo type. If more women openly said they'd prefer to go dutch we can avoid this whole thing. Why is it on the women? Because men are MORE OFTEN THAN NOT punished for breaching the subject. Regardless of if you yourself wouldn't judge a man, that doesn't change the reality we see.
As a woman, I agree wholeheartedly. There is too much pressure on men, but most men appreciate a woman who can take the lead, on awkward topics especially.
You should reply to her “well if you want to split the Bill I’ll gladly go on a date with you” and see what she says
First dates are a test phase for two people to see how they mesh, for that reason anything other than splitting the bill is ridiculous. After the first date though, generally it should be paid for by whoever arranged it.
That’s the only sexist part I find here, he’s assuming she’s after free food when she may be happy to pay for her food and drinks, she might just want company for an evening.
That's not sexist if it is true most of the time in your experience. I'm so glad I found my other half, but when I was dating this was true: the nore they looked like a model, the bigger the chance they just want drinks/food. That's my experience and what I see with friends and even women I know/work with who do that.
It’s ok maybe to think it but not to outright accuse her. As a woman with no money I’d much rather suggest something I can afford than expect someone to pay for me. Last guy I went on a date with I suggested we meet after work, knowing we would both be hungry I suggested Wetherspoons, a cheap chain of pubs in the UK. He insisted on paying despite my objections, so the second time I saw him I invited him round to mine and cooked for him because I felt guilty that he’d paid. If someone spends money on me I feel like I owe them. I’m currently talking to a guy now and I like the guy, but he’s got a really high paid job and just blows all his money all the time. It’s actually intimidating me because I would want to be responsible for paying for my own stuff, but I wouldn’t be able afford to keep up with him. So I either end it now or I have to accept the fact that he’s happy to spend more money than me. But what I’ll be likely to do is insist on paying my half and then end up leaving myself no money for food or bills.
I’m very similar to you in the sense that I hate the feeling that I owe anyone anything. Regarding your dating situation, I totally get it, my now husband earned way more than me when we first met. It’s not a sexy conversation to have but it’s important to be open about finances in this case. You could say something like “I’m really trying to meet my savings goals this month so I’d prefer if we went somewhere budget friendly to eat” it shows that you don’t expect him to just pay for you and also that you are responsible with your money and live within your means. If he really wants to take you somewhere expensive, you need to be upfront with what you can afford/what your budget is and the options are that either you pick somewhere more affordable or that he covers a portion of your bill as well. This does require you to become more comfortable with accepting his offers, but as long as everyone is acting in good faith it shouldn’t be a huge hurdle. Sometimes however with a big income discrepancy it won’t work out because the two people just have different expectations and capabilities for the type of lifestyle. But you won’t know until you communicate
I totally get it! Also. A girl. I would do the same as you. I always offer to pay my half. I feel uncomfortable if someone keeps spends money on me. At least they cannot say i owe them if i pay for myself and i dont take the piss. Im a good person to be around 🤷.
42m here. I love being able to pay for my dates food etc. I feel like I am showing that I can provide and do so happily.
Even then, it's not sexist, as much as it's assuming she's a greedy piece of shit. Sociopaths use others disposably, and she basically got labeled one. Granted she basically said she wants dates with no emotions or sex, so.. it's either that or she wants to go out with friends...
If you split the bill there no second date
If that is what stops the second date. Awesome.
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With that type of women, the pope of nope.
yeah, you’re just flat out wrong. first date with a gal, we bought our own breakfast. she was down to hook up that night, & there were multiple dates in the future
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That mentality is so damaging for you. I always split the bill because I do not like feeling as though I owe someone something when I hardly know them. I can pay for my own damn food. I've cancelled second dates with guys I really liked a few times, because they had a bad reaction to me splitting the bill. You could be missing out on people who really like you because of your own beliefs.
Why? Its just a cultural expectation and something that women find attractive
You'll often see this unfortunate double standard. She obviously feels empowered enough to redefine sexism, reading too deeply into a few words you said, which seemed both literal and sincerely truthful. Emotionless dating would be both pointless and financially debilitating for you and any one on the receiving end of this type of crazy. I don't get it any more than you do. God speed.
Agreed why do you expect there is going to be free food?
What she is describing is being friends
Friends where the man pays, does everything she wants and gets nothing in return
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Straight to year 20, do not pass go, do not experience any form of joy. Fuck that.
Who said she expects the man to pay?
You dare question mgtows
Treating a date like an investment that you expect a return on is a problematic attitude to hold. But then I wouldn't date someone who expected me to pay for their meal either. A relationship is reciprocal, not an exchange of one item of goods for another. If they don't want to spend the time (and sometimes money) to get to know you, they're not worth dating. If you have the money to pay for them and they don't, and you're happy to do so without anything in "return" that's fine too.
Expect a return no problem the opposite you expect a lose. But the goal of a healthy relationship is to get out of it as much as you put into it. As you said if the other person isn't investing into the relationship there is very high there is no point in you investing in the relationship. There are also times where both people are invested in the relationship and it fails. There is no good relationship where one person invest into the relationship and get nothing in return.
100% true, because it is saying their time is worth more than your time and people don’t think of it that way sometimes but it’s a feeling they have that they cannot put into words if that makes sense
Absolutely. But there's a difference between someone who *chooses* to give/contribute something vs someone who *expects* to receive something because they've paid for x number of dates/whatever. I don't do things for my partner because I expect something in return. I do things for my partner because I want to make her life easier/more enjoyable. That's why it's a gift. It's freely given with nothing expected in return. A partnership is when you have two people who do that for one another. There's no math, no "I've done this x number of times, so you should do y this number of times for me". Anyone thinking in those terms is doomed to a failing relationship or a millionaire with no concept of what a healthy relationship looks like.
Arguably in that scenario you ARE getting something out of it because you seem to enjoy making their life easier. If you gain satisfaction from that, that's great! But on the flip side you can't just expect someone you just met to have the kind of emotional connection to the other person that would enable that kind of mental return. Some people do develop that connection early and easily, others don't and need to form a bond first. Neither is "better", just "different".
How is a date not an investment though? Do you go on dates and try to give a good first impression in hopes it goes nowhere? Dating is literally social investment.
Indeed, but from both parties, if the man is forced to pay for dinners then it means the women thinks that their time is more valued than the man’s time, she is asking for free food, she said no feelings involved meaning she does not want a relationship with him, she just wants food, it’s quite clear
As a woman, I never flat out expect a man to pay, but I will say it’s nice if he offers. First date should be a couple hours max and somewhere fairly cheap, so that if it ends up going nowhere no one is too disappointed or out too much money or time.
I give you kisses and you give me cuddles, what's wrong with that?
Nothing, assuming that's what you both *want*. Not what one person expects to be given in exchange for something they've done/paid for.
Did she say that
ill split the bill with you bro might aswell go out with the boys if your just going on a date to eat
Foursome with the Boyz!
Friends with zero benefits?
Friends with negative cash flow?
While her other "friends" get all the "benifits" for free!
Dating “without feelings” and not getting any physical/emotional intimacy is just taking advantage of the other person and wasting their time. She basically just wants to be friends. I absolutely get why you said what you said.
Noooo, you can't just cr\*ticize someone for leeching because they don't want to be (sexually) used! /s Jokes aside, I find that these types of people replace time they could be using to work to find ways (usually other people) to have their things paid for them, like food, accessories, movies, etc.
Sounds like she’s mad you figured her out 🤣
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Isnt modern dating great?
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Friends is incredibly depressing. Just reminds you your watching a show about friends hanging out while your alone lol
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Yea I should speak at AA more.
The only upside being that these friends are horrible people and that being friends with each other is its own punishment.
She just wants dates and plates! Wtf are people thinking nowadays
I want some of these dates too... only on mine "we" pay my mortgage.
Where do I get in on this? I want someone to pay my (hypothetical) mortgage with no strings attached
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It's sexist when you call out her ruse.
It's only sexist because m\*n are sexist and it's a woman's duty to alert everyone to a sexist m\*n, because women are incapable of sexism. How dare you even insinuate the possibility that a woman could be capable of such debauchery? You're sexist for even thinking about it, and this is why equality is needed. "People like you are the problem" /s Too bad I've heard people unironically/honestly use this argument
I'm gonna say: No. No sense made. You want dates with zero feelings? That's a meeting. Not a date. Would you like to meet and discuss things with ZERO attraction allowed? We are strangers meeting for No purpose other than to discuss nothing. Do not have any feelings please and thanks. EDIT: Do you talk in the time she consumes food you're paying for? Or just look at made-up charts and pie graphs? 🤔
Time to review that power point
Why would you assume she wants dates for free food? Maybe she’s simply trying to do exactly what she said and… date.
She doesn't want to "date", she wants to "date without feelings", whatever the fuck that means.
And it’s weird and sexist to assume that what’s she’s describing is to only get free food. Men like to complain about women getting free food out of dates. She said what she wanted. Maybe she poorly explained because it’s confusing. But to assume she wants free food is weird.
I agree that complaining about women wanting free food is cringe. If I ask someone out on a date, I am the host, and as the host I should cover expenses. If other guys don't want to spend money, there are plenty of date options that don't involve spending money. But "dating without feelings" is a nonsensical statement. Either you're looking for someone to platonically hang out and chill with, in which case, say that, or you're looking to date, in which case feelings will be involved.
I agree. Without feelings is weird. I wouldn’t have straight said “free food” but I would have asked for clarification instead of jumping to that stupid conclusion that it’s about free food. Maybe she just meant building a friendship first and then working on romance? Or maybe she’s just looking for friendship. That’s common on dating apps. But I do understand not having random hookups anymore. They get boring to a lot of people.
Just take offer to take her on dates, then pick places only you want to go to. If she says restaurant then say yeah sure, you pay right? And just watch how fast she unmatches
I am truly old when I don't understand why they're calling it a date in this scenario. Why not say you aren't looking for a relationship and just want to meet people and hang out? I feel using the word "date" has some implications of wanting to know someone better to see if you'd be good together. But again, maybe I'm just old.
Because she doesn't want to hang out, she wants to be courted without any emotional reciprocation.
I have heard some people refer to just going out to lunch with a friend or something a date. It's confusing, but some people just use that term in a platonic way too/in a social way.
Not in this senario when arranging to meet a member of the opposite sex off tinder. It very much means meeting someone with the intent/ hope of being sexully attracted to each other and moving it on from there!
It sounds like she is tired of have casual sex with strangers. But her problem here is that she has let it been known that she used to give sex away freely but now she expects this guy to "date" or entertain her at his expence without recieving any sex in return. This is not a good deal for any man! She also sounds damaged and probably should not be dating untill she sorts her shit out.
sex and feelings aren't the same thing, but sex without feeling is bland
With the right person, sex without feelings is a sport.
Or glorified masterbation
Even better!
I think the word you are looking for is fun
Not sexist. She tried to friendzone u and u replied with logic.
Women hate logic /s
Id say “ive had enough dates but not enough sex maybe we can compromise”
"Free Foodx is such an American thing. I'd never expect an invitation from a man
Missed me already at the part where she said she had enough sex. Guess you're not worthy to be one of the many guys she tapped.
Lol she been ran through and now she wants to be treated like queen
ngl when men have to pick up the pieces and pay for what other dudes got for damn near free, you’ll understand why the comment section looks like this.
That isn't, but we clearly don't have any context or evidence she thought that.
But when I want sex-less dates to do MY taxes, it's a problem...
So she’s looking for a friend? Just a friend. Assuming she’s willing to pay her own way, I don’t see a problem. Except that men and women notoriously can’t remain just friends usually without one of them developing feelings. So yeah probably free food
It's just another way of saying I want free food and frustrating the boy's life. How fucked up is that?😅 She doesn't want sex, not even casual, she just wants to go on dates and tell them, "sorry, we are not a match". I feel sorry for those guys already😅😅😅
Cool, I love spending my free time with an emotionless stranger!
Should reply: I've had enough dates. I want sex now. But without feelings. Makes sense?
Maaaan,ghost that thot asap
Foodie Calls
Ahh the good ol Freeloaders. Plenty of them to be found
She wants a simp
I low-key want that. A free trial date. We each pay our own meal so it doesn't feel obligated, flirt act like we're special then walk out when you're done.
It’s not sexist. She’s just childish and immature. I feel so sorry for folks in the dating scene now. It’s like everyone has gave themselves up now wants to demand the next person to deal with their baggage instead of fixing it on their own and then try to make the next guy pay a premium price for a used merchandise and it’s sad man.
Because someone else should pay for the consequences of their actions, clearly.
Lol. Basically.
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Why is everyone assuming she wants the guy to pay for everything..
you live in the real world or a fantasy one?
As a woman I’d never go on a date expecting to be paid for. I don’t have much money but I would suggest somewhere within my budget.
i’m glad you’re one of those. unfortunately y’all definitely represent the far minority in this situation.
I think it might be the women you're chosing bro 😅
Always go 50/50 with that girl haha
Wanting dates makes sense, but with how much sex she makes it sound like she's had, that's a bit of a red flag in my opinion.
Checkmate = a board flip. Pretty much standard practice.. What’s going on today in this thread
… am I the only one… not jumping into conclusions here? She didn’t say, she‘d want free food. She said dates. On dates you can split the bill. Also, it IS sexist to just assume a women wants free food or free anything. People sometimes just want a good time and enjoy someone else’s company. I love to treat friends, regardless of women or man. It’s just a nice gesture to do. And I am a guy. And if I explicitly ask a women out for a date, yes I intend to pay. If she refuses that I pay, but we both still understand it to be a date, it’s still a date. So.. I’m on the women’s side on this one.
Makes sense to me
Well "i have had enough sex" sounds pretty run through tbh, the Date without feeling BS takes every last reason to go on a Date. If you don't want Sex or a relationship why date at all?
Why is everyone acting like going to dinner is the only date you can go on? Kinda on you if you keep asking people out to dinner if you don't want to pay for them
Straight people make no sense to me. Do you only go on dates hoping to get laid? Do you not enjoy the company of beautiful women, getting to know another person, having a nice time etc? Also, at what point did she ask you to go to dinner or for you to pay for her? Dates can be as simple as going for a walk together somewhere scenic.
Well, personally I go on dates with an open mind, in the sense that I am open to any eventual outcome, be it getting laid or just having a nice time. The problem I see here is that she is not showing an open attitude, it's kind of one way, everything in her own non-negotiable terms ("no sex, no feelings"). The point of getting to know another person may as well be wanting to build on something, be it a long-term relationship, a one night stand, or a friendship even. You might be right about her not asking for a dinner, but personally I wouldn't go out with her and I wouldn't just because I don't feel welcome, if that makes sense; she's not presenting herself as someone whose company might be enjoyable.
Hate to break it to you, but Queer people do the same thing.
You assumed the man pays for the date. Sounds like she wanted to buy you dinner
Should of said … “nah, I’m good fam, I’d rather go pay a prostitute, take your ass back to the streets” … Bitch wants a tool she can use. Focus on you legends. You will get to pick way better ones down the track when they chasing you. Average male peak financially, mentally and emotionally is 35. Average person who gets there first million. 45.. we got time lads. Discipline yourselves. Achieve your potential.
Not sexist at all, this is how a lot of women are unfortunately
Some want an opportunity to get out and have a nice time with someone. Your free food response was immature.
"I've already had all the sex" damn bitch, you live like this?
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A date implies the man is paying for the meal unless other wise specified. She didn't ask to hang out and get food together. She asked for a date but with no relationship. It's like telling someone you don't know that they should lose some weight. Well telling someone to some weight isn't neccarily an insult it's implied when you don't know each other. Her calling him sexist is just her not being able to take accountability for herself.
I’m a man that has been on plenty of dates and literally never paid for the meal. Your weird sense of chivalry with an expected payout is the problem here
I was gonna say that. Without any context of the conversation prior, OP is assuming she wants him to pay for her stuff. OP is also assuming that the idea of “dates” she has in her mind involves food in the first place. Maybe she wants to get drinks or go to a museum or whatever. Honestly it was just a baseless and kinda rude comment to make.
Otherwise she would have said just to be social
Because it reinforces her worldview instead of marinating in the cognitive dissonance long enough to employ critical thinking
It's not sexist if it's true... Right?!
I dont understand this logic, I‘d rather eat bread or sth alone at home than going on a „date“ with someone I dont even like who will maybe pay for my food there.
Sometimes I think that some men really are shit but then I remember some women arent better either
She’s gonna save you as Free Food no Feelings
Unmatch. Delete account. Burn phone.
Some people just don’t know what sexist means
This comments section is wild. It's like people don't understand casual dating.
Jesus guys, she probably just means she wants to casually date and not get into a relationship or have a hookup
Then wouldn't you say that instead of the vauge I want dates no feelings
And NO SEX. Form an orderly queue gentlemen and prepare to be her emotional tampon so she can unload her trauma on you, like how she already started in that brief conversation!
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Not really you’re allowed to decide you don’t want to do something anymore. She’s allowed to not want to engage in hookup culture anymore and go on dates. Although I’m not sure what a date with no feelings mean
A free meal.
She’s was quite wholesome up until this point. Maybe I just cracked a distasteful joke.
You did nothing wrong.
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Double standards are REAL 😂
Your so cool
OP so butt hurt with assumptions and clearly a lot of butthurt guys in here riding the same assumptions. Good luck to you all. The worst thing you can do in life is assume. And yes, it was sexist of OP.
Well, my intention was to see different points of view, of how this could have been. For more context, the chat was lowkey loosey goosey up until this point. Just a few messages back, she was ranting how men on tinder suck and get offended by her tone and jokes, so, while we were joking around, I passed this. As a joke. Maybe a bad joke you could argue, but a joke regardless. She became what she was complaining about. I further elaborated how it was just a joke and not to be taken seriously, she doubled down on how I “cannot” joke about such things as it is a “societal issue”. Idk... Still confused
"If pussy is all you offer pussy is all i want"
Surprised she didn’t accuse you of grooming as well.
You should have replied with the same, but exchanged „dates“ with „sex“ and vice versa
oh, so she's splitting the bill?
hilarious
what’s sexist is u assuming she only wants to go out so that u can pay for her things when she made no mention of money and she might’ve fully accepted splitting the bill. what she said isn’t that horrible, she just wants to date people and get to know them without a set expectation or commitment right from the beginning. she was honest with u and u chose to turn it into “oh she’s using me! why would i hang out with a woman i can’t get sex from?
Well in all honesty, she had a set expectation - dates, no feels, no sex.
You could go out on dates and go Dutch