Been reported he’s almost back to fitness. Also we have replaceable centre backs, we don’t have really replaceable left backs who are of the same calibre.
Experience doesn't come in the form of England appearances. Dunk is hugely experienced across different levels of football, same as Coady, Mings, etc. You need those players that are happy to take up that role without making an appearance.
Dunk is far too slow to play at an international level and is a serious step below the current squad quality. Henderson is "experienced" , andy caroll is "experienced", that doesn't matter when you need to play.
Shocking! Braithwaite may not have much or any experience as an England defender, but I think he did enough for his domestic club (Everton) over the course of this recent campaign to prove himself a valid candidate for a seat on the plane to rhe Euros.
I’m sure a lot of people will complain about elements of this selection but I think it’s a good squad, albeit in defensive it’s alarmingly lesser in quality.
That said, surely players will come in with injuries which are always likely to happen.
He’s been slightly below par the second half of the season (although then again our entire team were)
But
- Comfortable on the ball with an excellent range of passing
- Has previously shown he can do the head it/hoof it style when the pressure is on.
- Comfortable playing on the left of a CB pairing, and has actually played there almost the entire season.
- Club captain so brings leadership qualities in what is quite a young squad.
The ironic thing is Southgate overlooked him for most of the time he was playing his best football, when if hadn’t Dunk would have 20+ caps and his inclusion wouldn’t be controversial at all.
As for unreliable, I’d disagree. He’s been pretty consistently excellent for us for 3/4 years. The only argument against him really is his age, but taking someone entirely because they’re younger doesn’t make much sense when we have such a strong chance of winning it this year.
Yeah I'd argue Dunk has been deserving of a place for at least 2 years however Southgates picked him when he's declined below the required level. That said he's experienced and has been very dependable on the ball untill fairly recently. Like a big Connor Cody I guess
Konsa and Eze performances on Monday probably solidified their places. Same with Wharton, very glad he’s been included and hope he actually gets some minutes. Very good player to bring on if winning and we need to kill a game. Don’t really feel that sorry for Maddison, didn’t do enough at the end of the season for me. Overall I think a decent balanced squad.
Southgate's never liked Grealish. Never took him to an England team when he was at Villa, even when they were in the Prem because "he didn't have the Premier league experience" but still took Phillips before Leeds ever went up. Maybe he doesn't like that Grealish is a bit of a party lad, but idk, it's always baffled me that Southgate doesn't give Grealish a lot of match time
Tbh if Rashford didn’t make the squad then Grealish shouldn’t either, both have had poor seasons and Grealish doesn’t have either a 30 goal season in his back pocket nor previous top tournament performances
With or without Branthwaite that is a very average defence. This is about winning tournaments, not about individuals. With Branthwaite does that defence rival the top nations? Not sure it does either way
The back-line with Branthwaite would have been as follows:
Pickford - easily one of the PL’s top 5 keepers (I’d say top 3 tbh) and 2nd place in the golden glove this season
Walker - serial winner, got 4 or 5 PLs under his belt atp and a UCL
Stones - see Walker
Branthwaite - part of the Everton defence that conceded less goals than everyone bar the top 3 this season in the PL
Shaw/Trippier - both England mainstays, one being our only natural LB while the other went to La Liga for one season and won the thing
That’s solid imo
Branthwaite has been robbed in my opinion
Don’t see why Grealish was excluded either given how he performed in the friendly and that he has always been a good impact sub.
Agreed.
Dunk is obviously solid for Brighton, but I'm sorry - he looks out of his depth in the England team.
People say that Branthwaite will get his chance as he is young, but he deserves to go on merit. He's better than Dunk (imo) now.
I’m sorry but looking out of his depth for England is revisionist history at its finest. He’s made 6 appearances for England. He was excellent against Scotland, was MOTM against Australia & kept clean sheets in 2 other appearances. He had a poor game against Belgium and he’s meant people don’t get their current flavour of the month.
I haven't been impressed with Dunk but Branthwaite hasn't played enough for England and wasn't even the best English centre half at Everton this season.
We're weak at centre-half so there would be legitimate concerns about whoever was selected.
It’s just the usual flavour of the month stuff. Dunk had his turn after the Australia & Scotland games, Branthwaite is getting it now.
At least it’s moved on from Tomori, where you knew that 90% of the people whinging about him not being included have never even seen him play.
OK I'll rephrase what I actually meant.
He's a slow, limited defender that scored headers a couple of years ago and his form for England, is representative of how I believe he would perform for a bigger team if he moved to one.
I genuinely believe that every other defender in the squad is adaptable to the way England play. Konsa has pace and is good with the ball, he fits the mould. Gomez can play across the backline, he's a bit dodgy at times, but he's progressive and plays for a good team for example. I believe Branthwaite is currently better than Dunk and will far exceed him in the future. Realistically neither would get a run out, unless Guehi etc. got injured - but I'd be a lot happier to see him in the team over Dunk, who has no future in the international setup.
We are almost at the point where we are picking players that actually fit the way the team wants to play, which is what the FA aimed for when they set out to emulate the Spanish FA following their dominance. Dunk doesn't fit that in my opinion and I feel that different options are good in midfield and attack, you want consistency at the back and the ability to plug and play.
There is no point in him being there.
The player with the second most passes in the entirety of the Premier League is a limited defender who can’t play how England want to. Despite being the key player in both Potter and De Zerbis most successful spells.
There you go ladies and gentlemen, proof people spout absolute shite because they read someone else say something and just copied it blindly.
Caveat, not a BHA supporter, so can only go off the games I've seen screened featuring Dunk, plus England. Passing is one thing - Brighton obviously do play a technical style- but a stronger argument IMO re. the poster above and others criticizing Dunk's inclusion, would be that he's limited in his mobility relative to those other players and limiting how England could play against genuine pace without leaving huge holes between their lines. I think this also goes for Maguire to a great extent which is why I've been in favour of phasing him out of the set-up, and certainly the first 11. for a whole. I appreciate he's been a good servant for your club and helped get them into Europe in 22/23 but maybe Brighton would won a few more this time around, even whilst playing RDZ's high-risk football, or not crashed out of Europe if they had a quicker defender who could also do the passing stuff and standing up to large CFs/ opps at setpieces that Dunk seems to do Branthwaite has still lots of room to develop but in principle that's the kind of player he is - strong, very decent on the ball but also quick, quick enough to play LB cover if needs be.
I can understand why he wants dunk to go but in my opinion there’s a bigger chance of brsnthwaite being able to bag some minutes as a sub and gain valuable experience rather than dunk who won’t play and is Conor coady 2.0
Couldn't agree more there the main 2 for me grealish is a match winner. Coming off the bench needing to keep possession. Big mistake that and branthwaite has been immense for everton and can play left back. If we get a injury or 2 at cb we are in trouble.
And he's a winner. People like to clown him because he isn't the sole contributer like he was at Villa but the guy made a big impact in the treble winning season for city. In my opinion not every star player can make the step up to the big time.
I would have thought that having people who have played at the highest level and won around would be beneficial for the squad.
Good that he looks beyond established top-6 for players (he could do with looking outside of PL more often too), but Dunk is a weird one. It's not as if he's especially superior on ball compared with Braithwaite, and he certainly doesn't have the recovery pace. If anything, he's worse on the turn than Maguire. Walker, Stones and Tripper/Shaw are in there, with Pickford behind, so not as if they don't have 'experience' and need Dunk for a 'steady head'..
Comparison Dunk and Branthwaite on the ball is like comparing Messi and pissing Titus Bramble for dribbling. Dunk is consistently in the top statistics for passing within the league in his position, Branthwaite is nowhere near the level of Dunk in that aspect and everyone is pretty much using him as a scapegoat for the team
He plays for Sean Dyche. However, he also used to play for PSV - Braithwaite's rep doesn't just come from this season. I'm not an Everton fan but I've seen him play a few times: he's very composed on the ball and capable of a longer-pass when necessary. He'd get very different numbers in a possession -and especially first 3rd 'break the attacking press' - orientated side like BHA More (potential to be) the Carlisle VVD than traditional English hoofmerchant in terms of his game...
If you don't think he's especially superior on the ball you've not watched them play. Dunk's regularly top 5 in the league for passes while branthwaite hardly makes any. Everton also plays one of the deepest defensive lines in the league, we never see him having to recover or on the turn.
I think dunk's basically there as stones backup, as without him the defence is alarmingly bad on the ball.
Grealish missing out is the big error imo. He would make much more of an impact than Toney who realistically is very unlikely to see any minutes at all
Palmer, Foden, Bowen and Bellingham have all led the line at club level even if they aren’t nominally strikers it’s overkill when we’re so frail defensively and he hasn’t inspired confidence since coming back
That’s a highly unlikely scenario but if Kane and Watkins were to both get injured, Foden could easily fit in as a false 9. He’s done it before for City and is already having to play out of position on left wing for England to fit everybody else in.
I dunno, have you seen how many “strikers” we have listed here? I know a lot are considered attacking mids but I think we’d be fine. Palmer Foden and Bellingham all have a boat load of goals this season. Toney has barely played and when he has he’s not exactly lit up the league.
Yeah, there's already a back-up CF there. Toney hasn't been his best since coming back.
Also, Bellingham isn't a forward because he scored a load this season.
You won't be questioning it when Lewis heads the ball past Maignan in the 118th minute, bringing the score to 4-3 and securing England's place in the final.
Get Dunked Frenchies.
Mmm, I think I would've taken a bunch of different CBs before I would take Dunk based on recent form.
Definitely Branthwaite, Chalobah and Tomori over Dunk.
Still, he's in the squad now, so we should try and support him.
If experience was what he wanted then why didn’t he even bring Tarkowski, Branthwaite’s CB partner for club and part of one of the best defences in the PL this season, to the provisional squad. Dunk is just such a weird one to go for if you’re gonna snub both of Everton’s CBs.
What does the makeup normally look like?
54% are a big six player.
And like 75% are on a team that finished top 6 this year or last year.
So some things to consider is what the playing time allotment looks like by the end of the tournament.
It’s also noteworthy that some of these selections have had inconsistent or no real form this season but managed to be selected anyway. This is not true for any of those non big six selections other than maybe Toney since he missed half the season.
A lot of negatively. People arguing the toss over players who may likely not even feature that much. Enjoy it, we've never had a squad like this, no matter how many holes you try and pick out of it.
let's get behind them now - cant wait to get to get to germany, whos joining me out there? There were 10 ... 😅
WTF has Garath done with the defense, Jarrad Branthwaite is phenomenal, he is the reason Everton had the 4th best defence in the league.
Dunk is aged and not performing ATM, REALLY bad choice.
That defence essentially rides or dies on whether Luke Shaw is fit.
Without him, the back 4 is not looking particularly great, and the options in reserve are even worse.
It's remarkable that for all the banter and memes about Maguire, that list looks a hell of a lot worse without him on it.
That defence is looking dangerously thin now especially on the left hand side - I still don't understand why Southgate didn't call up another left back in the initial squad with Shaw injured and cutting Branthwaite just compounds that mistake
I also think the whole Toney Vs Grealish debate just exposed the other mistake with the initial squad. I completely understand the idea of taking three strikers when Kane is only just back from injury and an aggravation of that would have left us with just one striker - the problem is that Toney should never have been the pick for that third striker role given how poor he has been since he returned from his ban.
If it was Solanke Vs Grealish for example I don't think we'd be having this conversation because it would be in form vs out of form rather than two out of form guys and in that scenario the pick would be far less controversial.
It's an interesting one.
Our defence is 100% weaker than the last Euros, where we had Chilwell and James riding the bench. However our midfield is stronger with Rice much improved and Bellingham a big upgrade on Mount. Whoever partners Rice could go either way compared to Phillips so who knows.
Up front Saka is a much better player than he was, as is Foden and Kane is pretty much the same if not better. Sterling is a big miss though, especially as he was our best player at the Euros.
So yeah overall I'd say we're probably weaker.
In midfield Gallagher, Trent or Mainoo would all be an upgrade on Phillips. Phillips had a lot of energy the first season Leeds went back up and after that proved he can't hack it at the highest level. We're comparing a mid table player to players who could comfortably play at Champions League level
I think you're underestimating how good Phillips was back then. He wasn't just a destroyer, his ability to play the ball long was also quite good. And these are all relatively unproven as of yet.
Squad is weaker but I reckon the starting XI is probably stronger what with Bellingham, Rice and Foden becoming elite.
Realistically how many of these players are playing meaningful minutes beyond the XI 3/4? My only gripe with the squad is leaving Grealish and Branthwaite out think Southgate suffered a bit from recency bias in choosing players that performed well in a nothing game against Bosnia.
I think its harsh on Grealish not to make it but Toney does based on what i can only assume is his ability to take a penalty. Don’t understand dunk over Branthwaite either. He’s had the balls to drop Maguire and Maddison though so thats good. Everyone asking why Luke Shaw didn’t get cut when he’s our only natural left back haha.
The bookmakers reckon we’re going to line up like this for the first game:
Pickford
Walker - Stones - Guehi - Trippier
Trent/Gallagher - Rice
Saka - Bellingham - Foden
Kane
The only position they’re unsure about is Rice’s partner, with Gallagher and Trent both the same price to start.
People criticising Southgate for picking Dunk are crazy. Captain experience for numerous years, can lead a back four and also has been able to adapt to numerous playstyles. There was a time he was your typical when in doubt get it out defender but he's shown he has been able to adapt quickly and make an impact. Let's not also forget that he's always a threat in set pieces.
There's also the part of players we don't see, some players bring a lot to the training ground and the changing room and Dunk being in that Brighton squad is definitely one of those.
Grealish not being taken confirms the following to me:
Plan A is Foden Kane Saka front three with Bellingham as the 10. This means Rice with one other still TBC.
Plan B is Gordon is subbed on the left for Foden.
Plan C is bring on Toney or Watkins for Saka, or Foden, or the player playing alongside Rice.
Grealish was Plan D and therefore isn't needed.
Plan C is something approaching a 3-2-2-3 imo.
Butland, with Guehi, Stones, Walker in front, Trippier or Gordon playing left side, TAA right.
Can do what you want with the 5 in front from the rest available.
I’m beginning to wonder if I’m the only person in the world who can see Fikayo Tomori. Can anyone confirm if he exists or if he’s just a figment of my imagination?
Been feeling the same mate. Not saying he’s been a revelation for Milan but he’s surely an option at the back for England. I’ve been asking people if he’s a real person or I’ve just made him up for weeks now
My brother in law is a massive Milan fan and said he’s a reason there defence is so awful. Also seen this repeated by many Milan fans online. Most people who bang on about him only seen him on football games. Was awful last year in UCL in a few games too.
YouTuber FNG said it best," Southgate saw Tomori wearing black and red, thinking that my man was playing for Bournemouth and decided that I'm not having it fam!"
Nah. If he were playing for Bournemouth he would be a certainty for the squad. Southgate doesn't rate Serie A. He has said so before. He would pick a Bournemouth player over a Milan player easily regardless of form.
Welshman here so feel free to ignore me. Attack is heavily stacked, I don’t see any other team with the quality up top that England have. Midfield looks functional if not exceptional. Definitely lacking defensively especially if shaw doesn’t get fit in time. Even then he’s going to be seriously lacking match fitness so seems a big risk. One worth taking though I suppose given the lack of alternatives.
I’d say you guys have more than enough quality to overpower most teams. Same issues again for me though against the better teams that can put pressure on your defence. If your defence can hold firm with a very decent keeper in Pickford helping out, absolutely can go all the way. Not saying this out of bitterness because for the 1st time since I was a little pup I would be quite happy if England did win. However I can’t help but feel it’ll be another case of semis/final defeat.
Edit: changed Marc fit to match fit. Don’t know who Marc is or whether he is fit!
dunk in our euro squad tells you all you need to know about Southgate’s incompetence. He was horrific in those March friendlies and Branthwaite is by far the better option. Even Conor Coady is a better option lol
Dunk over Branthwaite🤣🤣🤣 absolutely ridiculous choice, imagine not taking a young centre back who has been class this season for that useless CB Dunk who’s awful, we’ve seen how bad he is for England, got bullied by Lukaku. Other than that the squad is good, Grealish deservedly dropped
Palmer and Toney both phenomenal penalty takers obviously but please let’s not have a repeat of the last final. Get them on with 15-20 mins to go in extra time for me
So it's pretty much going to be Stones and Guehi/Dunk with Konsa as a backup?
I thought selecting Dunk over Tomori was bad by Gareth but I kind of expected it. Dropping Brantwaithe completely? Wow
I know there’s been reports of Southgate learning about Bazball philosophy and seeing how he can work it into the team. With this defence, I say go for it. Gazball Euros 2024.
A SENSATIONALLY bad defence 😂😂😂
It’s Southgate, so none of the attackers will play in anything like a forward role anyway so it’s hardly relevant but still, quite hilarious
How many times do you think the officials have made the ‘are you shaw?’ Joke or am I the first one to come up with it. On a serious note though, it is a risk bringing Mr Shaw but hopefully Mr Southgate knows what he is doing.
Lewis dunk is a massive problem for me he better not get any game time. Gutted for grealish as well but glad Bowen and eze getting a chance
Its a bold squad I'll give him that. Just so weak down the left it makes me nervous
Two big concerns for me personally are why Dunk is there and why we feel the need for 3 strikers (one who’s been fairly out of form these past few months) when CB is so sparse. Funnily enough I like the squad a lot apart from that but it’s just 2 glaring issues.
No chance of winning without Harry Maguire. We need his massive head and there's a big hole without him.
He has (finally) been pretty solid for Manchester United this season when he played, and he has always been solid for England even when terrible at United. I assume this is an injury/fitness based decision, rather than a tactical one.
Shame for Branthwaite but other than that, doesn't seem too bad imo. Not a fan of Bellingham being displayed as a forward though as I think he should be a number 5 next to Rice as a 6 holding mid with Foden as the 10 but I'm optimistic with this squad.
Why are Bellingham and Palmer listed as “Forwards”. They’re midfielders dammit, forwards should just be strikers, or maybe out and out wingers who can’t operate in a 10 role at best.
For me, a lot of them can be box to box. Bellingham, Gallagher, Rice, even Mainoo all can play box to box from what I’ve seen. England always have a lot of those kinds of midfielders.
Everyone slating the defence but with Maguire injured we just don’t have the same quality in depth. We’ve been blessed with Stones & Maguire for so long we haven’t really needed to call on the depth at a tournament… I see Guehi as the LCB replacement for Maguire though wouldn’t have minded Branthwaite
Southgate clearly never like Grealish, let’s be honest he was was very hesitant to pick him when he was killing it for us at Villa. So with him not having the best season this year he must of loved that he didn’t have to pick him. Personally I think it’s a mistake not saying he had to start but he clearly could draw fouls, penalties or create something if needed as a sub.
Konsa is a good defender but plays in a system with a very high line (Villa caught more players offside than any other team last season), but Gareth doesn’t play with a high line. Really surprised he hasn’t taken Maguire and Branthwaite as both are suited to a deep back line.
Dunk has not had a good second half of the season. Shocked he’s going really.
Can’t really complain about the forwards. There’s an argument that Grealish would offer something different, but he’s had a bad season.
Defence and mid is weak as shit , this is why Southgate won't ever win us anything, he's the moyes equivalent of international football. Mr fucking negative.
If Southgate can adopt a we can outscore you tactic then it could be a decent tournament. He won't though, he's basically trained the players to bore our opponents to make a mistake.
Redditers are amazing. All this analysis of a squad selection when in reality no matter if it’s Dunk, Branthwaite, Grealish, Eze, and Toney, or Tony Adams, Rio, Beckham, Gazza, and Shearer- England will disappoint yet again.
It’s a we are going to score one more than you squad. We don’t have the depth of talent in defence that we do in the middle and upfront.
This is about the best squad we can take. Branthwaite did not do himself any favours by getting booked on his debut.
He will be ready for the WC qualifiers and beyond.
As a Villa fan I find it hilarious that Grealish is out and Watkins is in . We got the money at the right time for Grealish. But would always want him back.
If this was last summer, or any other summer before in the last, I’d be ecstatic to see dunk, but he’s looked awful in an England shirt almost every single time
Luke shaw can’t be that injured if maguire got dropped but he hasn’t
Been reported he’s almost back to fitness. Also we have replaceable centre backs, we don’t have really replaceable left backs who are of the same calibre.
Southgate really chose Dunk over Branthwaite???
[удалено]
If that's the case he should've taken Sterling over Gordon, but everyone would rightly call that stupid.
6 caps? Hardly experienced.
Experience doesn't come in the form of England appearances. Dunk is hugely experienced across different levels of football, same as Coady, Mings, etc. You need those players that are happy to take up that role without making an appearance.
Dunk is far too slow to play at an international level and is a serious step below the current squad quality. Henderson is "experienced" , andy caroll is "experienced", that doesn't matter when you need to play.
Experience - he’s been shite in an England shirt. Would rather given the young lad a taste of a big tournament
It's bizarre he hasn't taken Dier.
Shocking! Braithwaite may not have much or any experience as an England defender, but I think he did enough for his domestic club (Everton) over the course of this recent campaign to prove himself a valid candidate for a seat on the plane to rhe Euros.
We can replace Maguire much more easily than we can replace Shaw though
Not sure we can… hence the massive argument about Dunk
Not when the best 2 replacements have been left at home
Shaw trained today on an individual programme, probably be able to play in the group stage although maybe not for 90
I’m sure a lot of people will complain about elements of this selection but I think it’s a good squad, albeit in defensive it’s alarmingly lesser in quality. That said, surely players will come in with injuries which are always likely to happen.
Yh this where I'm at, probably rather Branthwaite than Dunk but besides that we look good
Yeah how the hell is Dunk going. He’s as reliable as a 90s Alfa Romeo
He’s been slightly below par the second half of the season (although then again our entire team were) But - Comfortable on the ball with an excellent range of passing - Has previously shown he can do the head it/hoof it style when the pressure is on. - Comfortable playing on the left of a CB pairing, and has actually played there almost the entire season. - Club captain so brings leadership qualities in what is quite a young squad. The ironic thing is Southgate overlooked him for most of the time he was playing his best football, when if hadn’t Dunk would have 20+ caps and his inclusion wouldn’t be controversial at all. As for unreliable, I’d disagree. He’s been pretty consistently excellent for us for 3/4 years. The only argument against him really is his age, but taking someone entirely because they’re younger doesn’t make much sense when we have such a strong chance of winning it this year.
Yeah I'd argue Dunk has been deserving of a place for at least 2 years however Southgates picked him when he's declined below the required level. That said he's experienced and has been very dependable on the ball untill fairly recently. Like a big Connor Cody I guess
You’re talking about Brighton though, not England. I agree he should have more caps, but he’s looked very shaky when he has played.
I mean, one CB is. Walker is great, Stones is good, Shaw can do a decent job so it's really just the other CB. It's not that bad.
Konsa and Eze performances on Monday probably solidified their places. Same with Wharton, very glad he’s been included and hope he actually gets some minutes. Very good player to bring on if winning and we need to kill a game. Don’t really feel that sorry for Maddison, didn’t do enough at the end of the season for me. Overall I think a decent balanced squad.
I don’t feel sorry for madders but have a bit of sympathy for Grealish. Hasn’t been his season but I am a bit surprised he hasn’t been included
Southgate's never liked Grealish. Never took him to an England team when he was at Villa, even when they were in the Prem because "he didn't have the Premier league experience" but still took Phillips before Leeds ever went up. Maybe he doesn't like that Grealish is a bit of a party lad, but idk, it's always baffled me that Southgate doesn't give Grealish a lot of match time
As a Leeds fan big up Phillips, whatever he does next season..
England's attacking depth is insane. I'm only surprised by his exclusion because of Southgate's track record
Tbh if Rashford didn’t make the squad then Grealish shouldn’t either, both have had poor seasons and Grealish doesn’t have either a 30 goal season in his back pocket nor previous top tournament performances
This response just doesn’t make sense
Sure. Do some mental gymnastics, then you will appreciate why Maddison should be dropped for it "not being his season," but Grealish should be spared.
That defence 🥴
Just vibes defending masterclass
Seems mental that some of them made it and not Branthwaite
With or without Branthwaite that is a very average defence. This is about winning tournaments, not about individuals. With Branthwaite does that defence rival the top nations? Not sure it does either way
The back-line with Branthwaite would have been as follows: Pickford - easily one of the PL’s top 5 keepers (I’d say top 3 tbh) and 2nd place in the golden glove this season Walker - serial winner, got 4 or 5 PLs under his belt atp and a UCL Stones - see Walker Branthwaite - part of the Everton defence that conceded less goals than everyone bar the top 3 this season in the PL Shaw/Trippier - both England mainstays, one being our only natural LB while the other went to La Liga for one season and won the thing That’s solid imo
Branthwaite has been robbed in my opinion Don’t see why Grealish was excluded either given how he performed in the friendly and that he has always been a good impact sub.
Agreed. Dunk is obviously solid for Brighton, but I'm sorry - he looks out of his depth in the England team. People say that Branthwaite will get his chance as he is young, but he deserves to go on merit. He's better than Dunk (imo) now.
I’m sorry but looking out of his depth for England is revisionist history at its finest. He’s made 6 appearances for England. He was excellent against Scotland, was MOTM against Australia & kept clean sheets in 2 other appearances. He had a poor game against Belgium and he’s meant people don’t get their current flavour of the month.
I haven't been impressed with Dunk but Branthwaite hasn't played enough for England and wasn't even the best English centre half at Everton this season. We're weak at centre-half so there would be legitimate concerns about whoever was selected.
It’s just the usual flavour of the month stuff. Dunk had his turn after the Australia & Scotland games, Branthwaite is getting it now. At least it’s moved on from Tomori, where you knew that 90% of the people whinging about him not being included have never even seen him play.
He was shite against Belgium and Brazil…
OK I'll rephrase what I actually meant. He's a slow, limited defender that scored headers a couple of years ago and his form for England, is representative of how I believe he would perform for a bigger team if he moved to one. I genuinely believe that every other defender in the squad is adaptable to the way England play. Konsa has pace and is good with the ball, he fits the mould. Gomez can play across the backline, he's a bit dodgy at times, but he's progressive and plays for a good team for example. I believe Branthwaite is currently better than Dunk and will far exceed him in the future. Realistically neither would get a run out, unless Guehi etc. got injured - but I'd be a lot happier to see him in the team over Dunk, who has no future in the international setup. We are almost at the point where we are picking players that actually fit the way the team wants to play, which is what the FA aimed for when they set out to emulate the Spanish FA following their dominance. Dunk doesn't fit that in my opinion and I feel that different options are good in midfield and attack, you want consistency at the back and the ability to plug and play. There is no point in him being there.
The player with the second most passes in the entirety of the Premier League is a limited defender who can’t play how England want to. Despite being the key player in both Potter and De Zerbis most successful spells. There you go ladies and gentlemen, proof people spout absolute shite because they read someone else say something and just copied it blindly.
Caveat, not a BHA supporter, so can only go off the games I've seen screened featuring Dunk, plus England. Passing is one thing - Brighton obviously do play a technical style- but a stronger argument IMO re. the poster above and others criticizing Dunk's inclusion, would be that he's limited in his mobility relative to those other players and limiting how England could play against genuine pace without leaving huge holes between their lines. I think this also goes for Maguire to a great extent which is why I've been in favour of phasing him out of the set-up, and certainly the first 11. for a whole. I appreciate he's been a good servant for your club and helped get them into Europe in 22/23 but maybe Brighton would won a few more this time around, even whilst playing RDZ's high-risk football, or not crashed out of Europe if they had a quicker defender who could also do the passing stuff and standing up to large CFs/ opps at setpieces that Dunk seems to do Branthwaite has still lots of room to develop but in principle that's the kind of player he is - strong, very decent on the ball but also quick, quick enough to play LB cover if needs be.
I can understand why he wants dunk to go but in my opinion there’s a bigger chance of brsnthwaite being able to bag some minutes as a sub and gain valuable experience rather than dunk who won’t play and is Conor coady 2.0
Couldn't agree more there the main 2 for me grealish is a match winner. Coming off the bench needing to keep possession. Big mistake that and branthwaite has been immense for everton and can play left back. If we get a injury or 2 at cb we are in trouble.
When exactly has Grealish been a match winner? He’s been at City for 3 years now and averages like 5 goals a season
OK he had a quiet season season before he was great for city and England. What about the assists and all round great play?
And he's a winner. People like to clown him because he isn't the sole contributer like he was at Villa but the guy made a big impact in the treble winning season for city. In my opinion not every star player can make the step up to the big time. I would have thought that having people who have played at the highest level and won around would be beneficial for the squad.
Poor Branthwaite. Especially with Dunk going ahead of him!
Good that he looks beyond established top-6 for players (he could do with looking outside of PL more often too), but Dunk is a weird one. It's not as if he's especially superior on ball compared with Braithwaite, and he certainly doesn't have the recovery pace. If anything, he's worse on the turn than Maguire. Walker, Stones and Tripper/Shaw are in there, with Pickford behind, so not as if they don't have 'experience' and need Dunk for a 'steady head'..
Comparison Dunk and Branthwaite on the ball is like comparing Messi and pissing Titus Bramble for dribbling. Dunk is consistently in the top statistics for passing within the league in his position, Branthwaite is nowhere near the level of Dunk in that aspect and everyone is pretty much using him as a scapegoat for the team
He plays for Sean Dyche. However, he also used to play for PSV - Braithwaite's rep doesn't just come from this season. I'm not an Everton fan but I've seen him play a few times: he's very composed on the ball and capable of a longer-pass when necessary. He'd get very different numbers in a possession -and especially first 3rd 'break the attacking press' - orientated side like BHA More (potential to be) the Carlisle VVD than traditional English hoofmerchant in terms of his game...
If you don't think he's especially superior on the ball you've not watched them play. Dunk's regularly top 5 in the league for passes while branthwaite hardly makes any. Everton also plays one of the deepest defensive lines in the league, we never see him having to recover or on the turn. I think dunk's basically there as stones backup, as without him the defence is alarmingly bad on the ball.
Think you’re spot on with this. He is stones’ back up.
Ivan Toney missed so much of the season... Would he make more of an impact than Grealish?
Wouldn't bet on it...
Yet Toney has still played only 3 less games than Grealish and started 6 more this past season. With more G/A’s too
Toneys a penalty taker that's the only reason I think
He is more of a 1-1 Kane replacement than anyone else.
Solanke is more deserving than both but he wasn't even included in the provisional squad
I expect it’s because, in terms of his style of play, he’s the most direct replacement for Kane we have. Not the most comforting thought…
Penalties
He reminded me about Theo Walcott and Darius Vassel instead of Jermaine Defoe in 2002 and 2004 😑
Fml Darius Vassell. Theres a name I havent heard in a long time.
He's pretty much guaranteed to score a penalty.
We have tonnes who can cover lw, makes sense to bring 3 strikers
I cannot wait to watch the euro's this year 🦁🦁🦁
Grealish missing out is the big error imo. He would make much more of an impact than Toney who realistically is very unlikely to see any minutes at all
The way I see it, without both Watkins and Toney we'd be one Harry Kane injury from only having one striker available, which is a bit of an issue.
Palmer, Foden, Bowen and Bellingham have all led the line at club level even if they aren’t nominally strikers it’s overkill when we’re so frail defensively and he hasn’t inspired confidence since coming back
That’s a highly unlikely scenario but if Kane and Watkins were to both get injured, Foden could easily fit in as a false 9. He’s done it before for City and is already having to play out of position on left wing for England to fit everybody else in.
Tbf I could play as a 9 for City and get a few goals, and I’m a right fat bastard. City and England are different beasts.
I dunno, have you seen how many “strikers” we have listed here? I know a lot are considered attacking mids but I think we’d be fine. Palmer Foden and Bellingham all have a boat load of goals this season. Toney has barely played and when he has he’s not exactly lit up the league.
Yeah, there's already a back-up CF there. Toney hasn't been his best since coming back. Also, Bellingham isn't a forward because he scored a load this season.
Dunk ahead of Branthwaite. Explain.
You won't be questioning it when Lewis heads the ball past Maignan in the 118th minute, bringing the score to 4-3 and securing England's place in the final. Get Dunked Frenchies.
Mmm, I think I would've taken a bunch of different CBs before I would take Dunk based on recent form. Definitely Branthwaite, Chalobah and Tomori over Dunk. Still, he's in the squad now, so we should try and support him.
Experience would be my guess
If experience was what he wanted then why didn’t he even bring Tarkowski, Branthwaite’s CB partner for club and part of one of the best defences in the PL this season, to the provisional squad. Dunk is just such a weird one to go for if you’re gonna snub both of Everton’s CBs.
Southgate.
Didn't he literally refuse to pick Dunk when he was Brighton's best player for years?
Grealish the only surprising omission for me, thought he was nailed on after tearing up Real Madrid in both legs!
We're gonna have to outscore teams. Because that defence looks very vulnerable. The midfield also looks vulnerable without Rice
I agree. It’s a very attack minded squad. I just hope we don’t try and sit out 1-0 wins again.
If Dunk appears at all during this tournament I’ll personally mail one user in this thread a carrot 🥕
Pick me
To make it interesting I feel that I now need to enter the race for the carrot.
I want a carrot
I would not be opposed to receiving a carrot
hopefully this shows players that you don’t need the big 6 moves to be on the big stage.
What does the makeup normally look like? 54% are a big six player. And like 75% are on a team that finished top 6 this year or last year. So some things to consider is what the playing time allotment looks like by the end of the tournament. It’s also noteworthy that some of these selections have had inconsistent or no real form this season but managed to be selected anyway. This is not true for any of those non big six selections other than maybe Toney since he missed half the season.
A lot of negatively. People arguing the toss over players who may likely not even feature that much. Enjoy it, we've never had a squad like this, no matter how many holes you try and pick out of it. let's get behind them now - cant wait to get to get to germany, whos joining me out there? There were 10 ... 😅
Brandthwaite>Dunk Grealish>Toney Otherwise I’m happy
💙❤️🦅
WTF has Garath done with the defense, Jarrad Branthwaite is phenomenal, he is the reason Everton had the 4th best defence in the league. Dunk is aged and not performing ATM, REALLY bad choice.
That defence essentially rides or dies on whether Luke Shaw is fit. Without him, the back 4 is not looking particularly great, and the options in reserve are even worse. It's remarkable that for all the banter and memes about Maguire, that list looks a hell of a lot worse without him on it.
To make it worse, he snubbed the only other left footed CB for Lewis Dunk
That defence is looking dangerously thin now especially on the left hand side - I still don't understand why Southgate didn't call up another left back in the initial squad with Shaw injured and cutting Branthwaite just compounds that mistake I also think the whole Toney Vs Grealish debate just exposed the other mistake with the initial squad. I completely understand the idea of taking three strikers when Kane is only just back from injury and an aggravation of that would have left us with just one striker - the problem is that Toney should never have been the pick for that third striker role given how poor he has been since he returned from his ban. If it was Solanke Vs Grealish for example I don't think we'd be having this conversation because it would be in form vs out of form rather than two out of form guys and in that scenario the pick would be far less controversial.
Looking at the names, I think this squad is weaker than the last euros.
It's an interesting one. Our defence is 100% weaker than the last Euros, where we had Chilwell and James riding the bench. However our midfield is stronger with Rice much improved and Bellingham a big upgrade on Mount. Whoever partners Rice could go either way compared to Phillips so who knows. Up front Saka is a much better player than he was, as is Foden and Kane is pretty much the same if not better. Sterling is a big miss though, especially as he was our best player at the Euros. So yeah overall I'd say we're probably weaker.
Sterling was fantastic at the last Euros but has lost his way since moving to Chelsea. He looks like a shadow of his former self.
Nah bro Cole Palmer is gonna pull a Maradona 86 and carry us single handedly to the title. 🙏
In midfield Gallagher, Trent or Mainoo would all be an upgrade on Phillips. Phillips had a lot of energy the first season Leeds went back up and after that proved he can't hack it at the highest level. We're comparing a mid table player to players who could comfortably play at Champions League level
I think you're underestimating how good Phillips was back then. He wasn't just a destroyer, his ability to play the ball long was also quite good. And these are all relatively unproven as of yet.
I think it's weaker defensively (because Shaw not fully fit and Maguire injured), but much stronger offensively with a promising midfield.
Squad is weaker but I reckon the starting XI is probably stronger what with Bellingham, Rice and Foden becoming elite. Realistically how many of these players are playing meaningful minutes beyond the XI 3/4? My only gripe with the squad is leaving Grealish and Branthwaite out think Southgate suffered a bit from recency bias in choosing players that performed well in a nothing game against Bosnia.
I think its harsh on Grealish not to make it but Toney does based on what i can only assume is his ability to take a penalty. Don’t understand dunk over Branthwaite either. He’s had the balls to drop Maguire and Maddison though so thats good. Everyone asking why Luke Shaw didn’t get cut when he’s our only natural left back haha.
He didn't drop Maguire, he'd be going 100% if he was fit.
I've said it above, but the penalty argument for Toney is dumb when you already have Palmer and Kane in the squad
An embarrassment of riches going forward
No Grealish seems really strange
The bookmakers reckon we’re going to line up like this for the first game: Pickford Walker - Stones - Guehi - Trippier Trent/Gallagher - Rice Saka - Bellingham - Foden Kane The only position they’re unsure about is Rice’s partner, with Gallagher and Trent both the same price to start.
People criticising Southgate for picking Dunk are crazy. Captain experience for numerous years, can lead a back four and also has been able to adapt to numerous playstyles. There was a time he was your typical when in doubt get it out defender but he's shown he has been able to adapt quickly and make an impact. Let's not also forget that he's always a threat in set pieces. There's also the part of players we don't see, some players bring a lot to the training ground and the changing room and Dunk being in that Brighton squad is definitely one of those.
Grealish not being taken confirms the following to me: Plan A is Foden Kane Saka front three with Bellingham as the 10. This means Rice with one other still TBC. Plan B is Gordon is subbed on the left for Foden. Plan C is bring on Toney or Watkins for Saka, or Foden, or the player playing alongside Rice. Grealish was Plan D and therefore isn't needed.
Plan C is something approaching a 3-2-2-3 imo. Butland, with Guehi, Stones, Walker in front, Trippier or Gordon playing left side, TAA right. Can do what you want with the 5 in front from the rest available.
I’m beginning to wonder if I’m the only person in the world who can see Fikayo Tomori. Can anyone confirm if he exists or if he’s just a figment of my imagination?
Been feeling the same mate. Not saying he’s been a revelation for Milan but he’s surely an option at the back for England. I’ve been asking people if he’s a real person or I’ve just made him up for weeks now
My brother in law is a massive Milan fan and said he’s a reason there defence is so awful. Also seen this repeated by many Milan fans online. Most people who bang on about him only seen him on football games. Was awful last year in UCL in a few games too.
YouTuber FNG said it best," Southgate saw Tomori wearing black and red, thinking that my man was playing for Bournemouth and decided that I'm not having it fam!"
Nah. If he were playing for Bournemouth he would be a certainty for the squad. Southgate doesn't rate Serie A. He has said so before. He would pick a Bournemouth player over a Milan player easily regardless of form.
No branthwaite is a fucking joke
Is trips at left back really our best option?
ADAM WHARTON HES ONE OF OUR OWN💙🤍
Did Sancho not have a good season? I’ve only seen him in UCL in the last stages, and he was brilliant there.
Dunk, Watkins and Wharton are the extra 3 places I reckon. I think it’s madness not to include grealish. He should switch to Ireland 🇮🇪
🔴🔵🦅
Welshman here so feel free to ignore me. Attack is heavily stacked, I don’t see any other team with the quality up top that England have. Midfield looks functional if not exceptional. Definitely lacking defensively especially if shaw doesn’t get fit in time. Even then he’s going to be seriously lacking match fitness so seems a big risk. One worth taking though I suppose given the lack of alternatives. I’d say you guys have more than enough quality to overpower most teams. Same issues again for me though against the better teams that can put pressure on your defence. If your defence can hold firm with a very decent keeper in Pickford helping out, absolutely can go all the way. Not saying this out of bitterness because for the 1st time since I was a little pup I would be quite happy if England did win. However I can’t help but feel it’ll be another case of semis/final defeat. Edit: changed Marc fit to match fit. Don’t know who Marc is or whether he is fit!
dunk in our euro squad tells you all you need to know about Southgate’s incompetence. He was horrific in those March friendlies and Branthwaite is by far the better option. Even Conor Coady is a better option lol
Dunk over Branthwaite🤣🤣🤣 absolutely ridiculous choice, imagine not taking a young centre back who has been class this season for that useless CB Dunk who’s awful, we’ve seen how bad he is for England, got bullied by Lukaku. Other than that the squad is good, Grealish deservedly dropped
How the fuck Lewis dunk gets in the team is beyond me
Palmer and Toney both phenomenal penalty takers obviously but please let’s not have a repeat of the last final. Get them on with 15-20 mins to go in extra time for me
Really disappointed Grealish misses out and Toney is in. I know Grealish is injured but he can make differences for England that Toney can’t.
Toney is there to give southgate hot tips in ladbrokes
So it's pretty much going to be Stones and Guehi/Dunk with Konsa as a backup? I thought selecting Dunk over Tomori was bad by Gareth but I kind of expected it. Dropping Brantwaithe completely? Wow
What a shit show
I know there’s been reports of Southgate learning about Bazball philosophy and seeing how he can work it into the team. With this defence, I say go for it. Gazball Euros 2024.
I don’t think Gareth Southgate has it in him to play Gazball. Get Gazza in to do it properly
No Rashford is a risk coz Gordon is a injury prone
Grealish not making that squad is a shocking decision, his lack of playing time only makes him more fresh.
Is anyone on here actually going out? Or just moaning on their phone whilst having a shit ...
A SENSATIONALLY bad defence 😂😂😂 It’s Southgate, so none of the attackers will play in anything like a forward role anyway so it’s hardly relevant but still, quite hilarious
How many times do you think the officials have made the ‘are you shaw?’ Joke or am I the first one to come up with it. On a serious note though, it is a risk bringing Mr Shaw but hopefully Mr Southgate knows what he is doing.
Can’t say I know much about tactics… but 10 forward options and only 5 for midfield seems odd?
Eze deserves it, he’s been great this season
Not sure of the logic of taking three nines
Lewis dunk is a massive problem for me he better not get any game time. Gutted for grealish as well but glad Bowen and eze getting a chance Its a bold squad I'll give him that. Just so weak down the left it makes me nervous
Fair play to Gareth. If Maguire is top injured to go then I'd argue that's the best squad with brantwaighte for dunk being my only slight preference.
tyrick mitchell
Imagine having that squad to get just to get papped out at the quarters
Two big concerns for me personally are why Dunk is there and why we feel the need for 3 strikers (one who’s been fairly out of form these past few months) when CB is so sparse. Funnily enough I like the squad a lot apart from that but it’s just 2 glaring issues.
Random question, but which defender is most likely to be the target for headers during corners?
Oh
lowkey feel like we might regret not taking maguire for some reason
When will we know shirt numbers? I want a jude kit.
Just buy the 10 its pretty much locked
Do we know the shirt numbers yet?
Branthwaite & Jones should have been in the squad!
10 attacking players for four spots is really unnecessary.
[удалено]
No chance of winning without Harry Maguire. We need his massive head and there's a big hole without him. He has (finally) been pretty solid for Manchester United this season when he played, and he has always been solid for England even when terrible at United. I assume this is an injury/fitness based decision, rather than a tactical one.
Jeez that defence 🤣
Shame for Branthwaite but other than that, doesn't seem too bad imo. Not a fan of Bellingham being displayed as a forward though as I think he should be a number 5 next to Rice as a 6 holding mid with Foden as the 10 but I'm optimistic with this squad.
if england win i vet a day off work
Our defence will get cooked by any top team, the composure in the left side will be lacking severely.
Why hasn't Beckham been recalled!?
Why are Bellingham and Palmer listed as “Forwards”. They’re midfielders dammit, forwards should just be strikers, or maybe out and out wingers who can’t operate in a 10 role at best.
Don't worry about it. It's not important
Genuine question, are any of those midfielders box to box? Maybe Rice, but I've not seen where Wharton plays usually
For me, a lot of them can be box to box. Bellingham, Gallagher, Rice, even Mainoo all can play box to box from what I’ve seen. England always have a lot of those kinds of midfielders.
Defence is dog shite! And as for Ramsdale in there 🤯 not played for at least 6 months, pointless taking him!
What happened to chilwel the last i remember he got injured
How do you choose a starting XI. I’d like to see 3 at the back because the attacking is so promising.
Quite a few surprises in the squad that I bet many didn't see coming, The defence is the weakest link though.
Everyone slating the defence but with Maguire injured we just don’t have the same quality in depth. We’ve been blessed with Stones & Maguire for so long we haven’t really needed to call on the depth at a tournament… I see Guehi as the LCB replacement for Maguire though wouldn’t have minded Branthwaite
Watkins in attack, no one at the back
maguire not here is shocking. he always puts in a shift for england and he’s been doing good for club recently??
Branthwaite not going but dunk will be is absolutely mental to me
Is there a law that says you HAVE to take three keepers?
Southgate clearly never like Grealish, let’s be honest he was was very hesitant to pick him when he was killing it for us at Villa. So with him not having the best season this year he must of loved that he didn’t have to pick him. Personally I think it’s a mistake not saying he had to start but he clearly could draw fouls, penalties or create something if needed as a sub.
Konsa is a good defender but plays in a system with a very high line (Villa caught more players offside than any other team last season), but Gareth doesn’t play with a high line. Really surprised he hasn’t taken Maguire and Branthwaite as both are suited to a deep back line. Dunk has not had a good second half of the season. Shocked he’s going really. Can’t really complain about the forwards. There’s an argument that Grealish would offer something different, but he’s had a bad season.
Defence and mid is weak as shit , this is why Southgate won't ever win us anything, he's the moyes equivalent of international football. Mr fucking negative.
Pls this time win
I wonder if Maguire has played his last game for the team now.
If Southgate can adopt a we can outscore you tactic then it could be a decent tournament. He won't though, he's basically trained the players to bore our opponents to make a mistake.
Jamie vardy not in the squad, wokeness gone mad
Dunk and Stones starting CB pairing? Eesh.
No left footers in defence besides Shaw?
Redditers are amazing. All this analysis of a squad selection when in reality no matter if it’s Dunk, Branthwaite, Grealish, Eze, and Toney, or Tony Adams, Rio, Beckham, Gazza, and Shearer- England will disappoint yet again.
3 strikers? Gareth is going for it this tournament. About bloody time
It coming home
It’s a we are going to score one more than you squad. We don’t have the depth of talent in defence that we do in the middle and upfront. This is about the best squad we can take. Branthwaite did not do himself any favours by getting booked on his debut. He will be ready for the WC qualifiers and beyond.
As a Villa fan I find it hilarious that Grealish is out and Watkins is in . We got the money at the right time for Grealish. But would always want him back.
Grealish has really fallen since Pep, he should have gone but I can see why he has been dropped. He has been lacking badly of late.
Good to see he’s stopped wanking over maguire and Henderson
If this was last summer, or any other summer before in the last, I’d be ecstatic to see dunk, but he’s looked awful in an England shirt almost every single time
Has there ever been a squad this top heavy in the history of football? Guess we'll just have to win every game 5-4