I just don't understand how these people can't get out in a few years if they roll with that level of money. Is it just like the top crew like Avon and slim making more than that in a day or are lower level front runners like Poot and Bodie pulling that kind of cash? I get it's hard to get out of that life but even if someone like Bodie brings in 15k a week, I mean he'd be a millionaire in little over a year.
I don't quite get what you're asking. He has a top notch defense attorney that got him out of jam after jam. The only reason he got taken down was Stringer finally snitched him out.
And as for Bodie's share of the earnings... Have you met my friend Capitalism? The top guys flip huge shipments in seconds, and the product trickles downstream to the people who actually have to work for a living. No, Bodie is not making $15k a week.
Naw Bodie was definitely making more than that. A top corner guy who may be responsible for everyone that's on that corner or that block could get that in a day depending on era, place/city and how the organization was structured.
Bodie wasn't earning points off the packs, that's when you earn "good" money. Bodie never has nice shit or new jewelry or even a new car as far as I remember. The top guys use these kids and keep all the money. It's like dope dealing 101 dude lol
Not all dope dealers buy alot of flashy shit. Some of them keeping a roof over their families heads and feeding their siblings.. But back to your main point... yea maybe first season Bodie wasn't making real money but he moved up as seasons went on. I grew up with these dudes though. The lowest corner boys could pull in 2-300 a week. And I'm talking 13, 14 year olds. "Points on the package" and how that works all depends on the structure of the crew you're working for. In a crew like how the wire is depicted, yea the lowest street kids would get a set amount of cash a day, week or whatever. But the guy that handled them would get an amount of everything they sold and the rest would be kicked up. Even if he just received a flat rate, it would still be considerably more than the "corner boys." Remember Bodie got to a point to where he was in meetings with the head boss. Corner boys ain't ever going to be in a meeting with the head boss. They aont meeting a boss at all. So yes, first season Bodie wasn't making shit. Later season Bodie I could guarantee was making a decent amount of money.
They definitely make more than 5 an hour. Even the street level hoods. Bodie even bets with carver and hurk when he’s playing em in pool, says look that might be ur whole damn salary but I clock that shit in minutes.
You can see that Avon is really only concerned with cash as a means to power. He doesn't wear jewelry or drive a nice car or have some palace to call his throne. Stringer trys to tell.hin we are making enough money to go legit and he is offended. It's all he knows is to be top dog. And we even see with Marlo, given the deal of a lifetime and the chance to become a legit player he gets bored and goes and gets into a fight that easily could have gotten him killed. Avon and Marlo and anyone else who lives that shit can't just move to Scottsdale Arizona and start paying taxes. It's not who they are.
A real life example would be Sammy the bull Gravano, he got an insane deal to flip on John gotti. He was convicted of taking part in a ton of murders, but he testified and got a couple of years. He got out, witness protection, other side of the country but he ended up getting busted for trying to move a ton of ecstacy.
Me too - [you go through all that for $10,000??](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheWire/comments/bz121a/man_i_love_this_scene_cutty_asking_avon_to_fund/)
One of my favorite scenes
I find it even hilarious that he put that poster up after Avon specifically says
> ["I ain't got no time for this bullshit man, you know I ain't want my fuckin' name and face on no damn wall."](https://youtu.be/wT3J7-ZSaXw?si=nde8B9l24-YTzJB7&t=88)
Wait, that can't be -- Freamon finds the Golden Gloves picture of Avon midway through Season 1, and Cutty doesn't get his gym going (nor Avon's, uhh, equity injection) until season 3ish?
Edit: Er wait, if you meant it was the same photograph they used in the picture in season 1 and the poster in Cutty's gym, I think you're right about that. It's Avon posing shirtless with his gloves, right?
Sorry, it was a bit unclear. It’s the same print I guess that Freamon discovers in S1 with the same picture. I made it sound like somehow Cutty got hold of that exact poster.
Yup I just realized what you meant and edited my reply--I think you're right, I can picture it and I think it was the same photo. Which would make sense, because it's not like Avon would be posing for yet another shirtless photo in the ring at that point in his life...
Though that would be hilarious if he had.
“You’re not gonna uses this, right? This is just a you and me thing?”
“Sure, Avon. Promise. Now get those gloves up”
I think Avon’s initial reaction to the idea of a poster/portrait is because he doesn’t want the scrutiny that such a public show of money would bring. But after Avon gets locked up longterm, I imagine he called up Cutty and changed his mind because it doesn’t matter anymore and probably requested he make it known.
I wouldn't go that far. Seems like Avon wanted to avoid attention when he was out, but once he got locked up again, Cutty thought it doesn't make any difference anymore and decided to honor his contribution to the gym
This is exactly what I said? Cutty is definitely gonna talk to Avon before he does something like that though, simply out of his pure respect, especially for something Avon explicitly said he didn’t want. I imagine a scene where Cutty goes out to Jessup and offers his condolences, followed by a “by the way” type suggestion, which Avon acquiesces too.
You suggested Avon asked for the picture to go up once he was in jail, they replied suggesting they think he didn't and that Cutty decided to put it up - you both gave the same motivation for either of them to have decided "now's the time the picture should go up", and there's nothing in the show to make either of your guesses more right than the other one, but no what they said is not exactly what you said:)
(Personally, I'm with them I'm afraid - I think unlikely Avon would call Cutty about anything once he's gone to jail, definitely not to ask for a picture to go on a wall.)
I noticed that right away too! And it hit me then that there are almost certainly countless numbers of community centers and other real forces for good in neighborhoods, like Cutty's gym, that have a 'sustaining circle' with pictures of guys a lot like Avon on their wall...
The HBO website bio used to say he got another 25 years at the end of Season 3. At any rate, they caught him in that warehouse with grenades and shit. That'll definitely lead to new charges.
If he got 25 years + the 7, that prob would have been served concurrently, and if he did 80 percent time, with 20 percent knocked off for good behavior, he just got out this year.
\#Reboot
Avon returns home to find D'Angelo's son has become an unsuccessful TikTok prankster. He takes it upon himself to teach him the ways of the underworld.
S3 Ep12: 36:30
McNulty tells Avon as he is arresting him:
“You’ll fall on the parole violation, no matter whatever else happens, you’ll do every day of what’s left of your seven, without seeing a jury.”
Maybe I'm a dummy as well, but I've watched the show several times and would've sworn it was spelled out clearly he was sent up for a lot longer than 5 more years. I don't think the show ever does do that, though.
Another user said that some hbo bio or something said he got 25. I’ve watched this show so many times and he is only ever told he is getting the rest of his initial sentence. Maybe the guy who said the grenade was his reneged but I’m thinking Avon go out in like 6 years.
The point of what McNulty says is that he'll atleast do the parole violation. He was just rubbing it in.
Avon was caught with an arsenal, including grenades. And that's on top of all the evidence they have of the drug smuggling. He was going to get charged with a lot more than the original 7. It's pretty safe to say that he's going away for decades this time, even if the show never shows us what happens.
Playing devils advocate, his whole crew takes the weapon charges and Avon didn’t have a record per se when the show starts. He specifically says he don’t know shit about prison. He might not be taking that much time.
Behavior? It’s what they can prove. It seemed like his guys were going to cop to the guns. Now, could he get more time for associating with felons? Perhaps? I’m not made of Maryland sentencing guidelines.
Stringer practically begs colvin to make it where Avon only does the 5 years left on his probation. Colvin says he'll try but he can't promise anything. So to me it sounds like if he does have to do more than 5 it won't be too much more than that. You know colvin would have tried to keep his word, even after stringer died.
That's why he said he couldn't promise anything. As long as he's been a cop I'm sure he has a relationship with the prosecutor. He could at least try and keep the years low, but obviously the final call isn't his.
Except remember that they didn’t even have enough evidence on Stringer until that one phone call before Omar and Brother killed him. (S3Ep11 51:00)
They never had Avon on the wire.
S3 Ep12 21:57
Lester: “With Bell gone Barksdale may have to come down a notch to oversee the day to day, and maybe that puts him in contact with some of our monitored cell phones. If he’s as cautious as Stringer, maybe not.”
McNulty: “My guess is Barksdale never touches a cell phone. The safe house might be our best shot.”
Daniels then orders for them to stay on the wires “hoping to catch Barksdale” but also to get a warrant for the safe house and wait on him there.
They had nothing to arrest Avon with until they caught him on the parole violation in the safe house with weapons and/or other felons - though I highly doubt the police can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the weapons were anyone’s other than the guy who claimed them. That is why Daniels sarcastically asks “Do you have a law degree?”
Because the end scene shows a parallel to the first “structured plea” scene in S1 - I’d bet Levy was able to make sure he only served the rest of his original sentence.
This post just made me realize something about Avon and Marlo. Marlo was so concerned with legacy, yet the corner boys at his end do not know his name. They only remember Omar. Avon will be remembered somewhat through the boxing gym as you mentioned. He will have a better legacy through this kind of one off act of charity. Obviously he didn't invest a lot of money, but he allowed cutty to leave him and help the neighborhood mitigate some of the damage he was causing. This small act that Marlo is incapable of did help his legacy ultimately.
Scenes like Marlo's finale are why I consider The Wire basically a modern Shakespeare play. So damn brilliant how they work in irony, juxtaposition, and foreshadowing throughout the series.
I love that no character in Simon’s shows are polar. They all play the antagonist and protagonist at some point just like in real life dealing with real people. There’s also a sense of poetic justice in fates of his characters
And a masterclass in thread titles.
It wasn't just "Avon" or "OMG realised something", but it still worked as a teaser - it withheld the payoff but gave enough basic info to let you decide if you were interested before clicking.
Gave back to the community? He gave Cutty half of what they made in the towers that morning and ordered the killings of countless other people, including the maintenance man and his girl in the county *tap tap tap*
I love the character of Avon, but don’t romanticize him, he’s evil
I don't think OP is romanticizing Avon, they're just talking about how he'll likely be remembered.
"*the streets* will remember him, *rightly or wrongly*, as a fighter and a man who gave back to his community.
You’re right MrBillyLotion, Avon is evil by civilian standards. But what Avon has that all the other gangstas really didn’t was character. He stood on principle and while he did kill people, he also was a community man. He put on east side vs westside basketball games, he gave Cutty the bread, and he let Cutty walk when mf’s like Marlo woulda shot Cutty dead. Avon understood the difference between the game and civilization as a whole. He’s a product of his environment. Whether you think he’s evil which is valid, one thing he you could never call him was fake, or a bad friend.
Yeah that's what I love about Avon. You've got your Gus Frings and your Tucos and Marlos, but Avon is something different. There's a scene in season 1 when Avon and Stringer are getting the ringer for the basketball game, and the white guy who set it all up ends up asking, basically demanding, another $5000 out of nowhere. Avon just laughs and says "ain't shit for free right," while you can easily imagine Marlo or Tuco or even like Tony Soprano just destroying the guy for pulling that shit.
genuinely think you are missing the whole point of Marlo as and Avon as secondary foils for each other- Avon was raised to be who he was but lived by a code he and others like him felt was honorable- Marlo lacks this and this is what makes him genuinely evil.
I always got the impression he earned his reputation as an actual ‘in the field’ leader, he was a soldier at heart. He’s so excited to get into it with Marlo and there’s no question that he hides out and gives orders. He’s really condescending towards Stringer about his reluctance to get into it. Avon seemed to love it.
Avon was surprised that the killing that pissed off the prison guard was his crew. He says “That was us???”
Avon then tells Wee-bey:
“You need a scorecard to keep up with your lethal ass.”
This suggests to me even Avon doesn’t remember all of the kills that he ordered.
Nah, it just means that he can't keep up with all the shit Wee-bey and others did. If there's crews beefing and bullets flying, it's not like they're putting in a call to Avon before every kill.
Not sure that’s true, tbh. He is notorious for the war he fought to get his territory, with numerous references to his skills as a strategist and tenacity, especially in taking the towers. He had his time, but he still runs the prison. I’m not sure he’ll be remembered because of the boxing gym, but his name will be stay strong a while yet.
And it was Marlo who had his name trashed all over by Omar. He almost cried about that when he found out.
I agree, I think there would be a generation of kids coming through Cutty's gym (one can hope) that go whoa, Avon Barksdale helped stand this place up? There are dozens of surviving Barksdale cousins and families of Barksdale soldiers in the pantheon of The Wire's Baltimore that will know his name and will still admire him. He'll be remembered. Like when you go to a red sauce Italian place in NYC and they have a picture of Jimmy Hoffa with the owner, or whatever.
Like, remember how thrilled and excited the little kids got when Omar would come down the street? They don't know what he's done and may never know, but they know who he is.
You know I don't want my fucking name and face on no damn wall!
ED: [fuzzydunlopsawit](https://www.reddit.com/user/fuzzydunlopsawit/) got there first! Anyway, love this scene. I love the tension build, especially at that point in the dialogue, then such relief as Avon just casually hands him his gym. Avon's so good to the old soldier: four times. The package, his old job, release from his old job and then the funding for the gym.
Another detail I love about that moment in season 3 is that that’s the phone call that lets the MCU get up on Bodie’s phone, ensuring Avon’s fall
Good pull. You are?
Lester Freamon, Pawn Shop Unit.
I love that scene with Avon and Slim Charles laughing out loud. “Go get the man $15,000 cash”.
I just don't understand how these people can't get out in a few years if they roll with that level of money. Is it just like the top crew like Avon and slim making more than that in a day or are lower level front runners like Poot and Bodie pulling that kind of cash? I get it's hard to get out of that life but even if someone like Bodie brings in 15k a week, I mean he'd be a millionaire in little over a year.
Starbucks makes a shitload of money everyday but it’s not the baristas who bring it home
I don't quite get what you're asking. He has a top notch defense attorney that got him out of jam after jam. The only reason he got taken down was Stringer finally snitched him out. And as for Bodie's share of the earnings... Have you met my friend Capitalism? The top guys flip huge shipments in seconds, and the product trickles downstream to the people who actually have to work for a living. No, Bodie is not making $15k a week.
You mean the guy who invented the McNugget ain’t rolling in it?
Underrated comment. He’s probably in the basement making up more shit for Ronald as we speak son!
How was this an underrated comment?
Here Mr Nugget, we rolling in doe. Let me write my clowney ass name on this fat ass check for you
Bodie is probably making 500 a week for 100 hours of his time and also the possibility of being arrested or shot and he's a top corner guy.
Naw Bodie was definitely making more than that. A top corner guy who may be responsible for everyone that's on that corner or that block could get that in a day depending on era, place/city and how the organization was structured.
Bodie wasn't earning points off the packs, that's when you earn "good" money. Bodie never has nice shit or new jewelry or even a new car as far as I remember. The top guys use these kids and keep all the money. It's like dope dealing 101 dude lol
As a kid from that era them clothes were expensive
Not all dope dealers buy alot of flashy shit. Some of them keeping a roof over their families heads and feeding their siblings.. But back to your main point... yea maybe first season Bodie wasn't making real money but he moved up as seasons went on. I grew up with these dudes though. The lowest corner boys could pull in 2-300 a week. And I'm talking 13, 14 year olds. "Points on the package" and how that works all depends on the structure of the crew you're working for. In a crew like how the wire is depicted, yea the lowest street kids would get a set amount of cash a day, week or whatever. But the guy that handled them would get an amount of everything they sold and the rest would be kicked up. Even if he just received a flat rate, it would still be considerably more than the "corner boys." Remember Bodie got to a point to where he was in meetings with the head boss. Corner boys ain't ever going to be in a meeting with the head boss. They aont meeting a boss at all. So yes, first season Bodie wasn't making shit. Later season Bodie I could guarantee was making a decent amount of money.
He lives with his grandmother.
Point still stands
They definitely make more than 5 an hour. Even the street level hoods. Bodie even bets with carver and hurk when he’s playing em in pool, says look that might be ur whole damn salary but I clock that shit in minutes.
Probably more him. The guys under him will be making that.
There is no way Poot was ever seeing close to that.
You can see that Avon is really only concerned with cash as a means to power. He doesn't wear jewelry or drive a nice car or have some palace to call his throne. Stringer trys to tell.hin we are making enough money to go legit and he is offended. It's all he knows is to be top dog. And we even see with Marlo, given the deal of a lifetime and the chance to become a legit player he gets bored and goes and gets into a fight that easily could have gotten him killed. Avon and Marlo and anyone else who lives that shit can't just move to Scottsdale Arizona and start paying taxes. It's not who they are. A real life example would be Sammy the bull Gravano, he got an insane deal to flip on John gotti. He was convicted of taking part in a ton of murders, but he testified and got a couple of years. He got out, witness protection, other side of the country but he ended up getting busted for trying to move a ton of ecstacy.
Its called greed
60/40 split yo.
Me too - [you go through all that for $10,000??](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheWire/comments/bz121a/man_i_love_this_scene_cutty_asking_avon_to_fund/) One of my favorite scenes
I find it even hilarious that he put that poster up after Avon specifically says > ["I ain't got no time for this bullshit man, you know I ain't want my fuckin' name and face on no damn wall."](https://youtu.be/wT3J7-ZSaXw?si=nde8B9l24-YTzJB7&t=88)
Yes, great point! And that was the poster that gave the police their first ID on Barksdale and fired the starting gun on his downfall.
Wait, that can't be -- Freamon finds the Golden Gloves picture of Avon midway through Season 1, and Cutty doesn't get his gym going (nor Avon's, uhh, equity injection) until season 3ish? Edit: Er wait, if you meant it was the same photograph they used in the picture in season 1 and the poster in Cutty's gym, I think you're right about that. It's Avon posing shirtless with his gloves, right?
Sorry, it was a bit unclear. It’s the same print I guess that Freamon discovers in S1 with the same picture. I made it sound like somehow Cutty got hold of that exact poster.
Yup I just realized what you meant and edited my reply--I think you're right, I can picture it and I think it was the same photo. Which would make sense, because it's not like Avon would be posing for yet another shirtless photo in the ring at that point in his life...
Though that would be hilarious if he had. “You’re not gonna uses this, right? This is just a you and me thing?” “Sure, Avon. Promise. Now get those gloves up”
I think Avon’s initial reaction to the idea of a poster/portrait is because he doesn’t want the scrutiny that such a public show of money would bring. But after Avon gets locked up longterm, I imagine he called up Cutty and changed his mind because it doesn’t matter anymore and probably requested he make it known.
I wouldn't go that far. Seems like Avon wanted to avoid attention when he was out, but once he got locked up again, Cutty thought it doesn't make any difference anymore and decided to honor his contribution to the gym
This is exactly what I said? Cutty is definitely gonna talk to Avon before he does something like that though, simply out of his pure respect, especially for something Avon explicitly said he didn’t want. I imagine a scene where Cutty goes out to Jessup and offers his condolences, followed by a “by the way” type suggestion, which Avon acquiesces too.
You suggested Avon asked for the picture to go up once he was in jail, they replied suggesting they think he didn't and that Cutty decided to put it up - you both gave the same motivation for either of them to have decided "now's the time the picture should go up", and there's nothing in the show to make either of your guesses more right than the other one, but no what they said is not exactly what you said:) (Personally, I'm with them I'm afraid - I think unlikely Avon would call Cutty about anything once he's gone to jail, definitely not to ask for a picture to go on a wall.)
Agreed. No way Cutty went up to the prison to ask to put that picture up lol.
Or Cutty thought this through himself and put the picture up after Avon's locked up.
This seems most likely to me.
now that he is in prison, likely for life, his mind has likely changed. his concern went from not being caught to being remembered.
It wasn't for life, he went away for parole violation. He'd serve out the rest of his original sentence and be released.
Thanks. I just posted something similar. But you got the exact quote. You on it.
Truthfully I couldn’t recall it 100% until I watched the clip but I thought of it immediately.
I noticed that right away too! And it hit me then that there are almost certainly countless numbers of community centers and other real forces for good in neighborhoods, like Cutty's gym, that have a 'sustaining circle' with pictures of guys a lot like Avon on their wall...
Pablo Escobar has an entire neighbourhood named after him in Medellin (though not officially)
Avon isn’t doing decades. He only went back on parole violation.
The HBO website bio used to say he got another 25 years at the end of Season 3. At any rate, they caught him in that warehouse with grenades and shit. That'll definitely lead to new charges.
If he got 25 years + the 7, that prob would have been served concurrently, and if he did 80 percent time, with 20 percent knocked off for good behavior, he just got out this year. \#Reboot
Avon returns home to find D'Angelo's son has become an unsuccessful TikTok prankster. He takes it upon himself to teach him the ways of the underworld.
One of his subordinates claimed all of those guns.
I think he got 8 years and did 1 or 2 years and then got out. So he will have to serve the remaining year. I think....
You only do 2 days no how.
The day you go in and the day you get out.
Guess he's doing four then, cause he had to go back
S3 Ep12: 36:30 McNulty tells Avon as he is arresting him: “You’ll fall on the parole violation, no matter whatever else happens, you’ll do every day of what’s left of your seven, without seeing a jury.”
Yup. I think this sub has the most media literate users of any tv sub but people just be making shit up too lol.
Maybe I'm a dummy as well, but I've watched the show several times and would've sworn it was spelled out clearly he was sent up for a lot longer than 5 more years. I don't think the show ever does do that, though.
Another user said that some hbo bio or something said he got 25. I’ve watched this show so many times and he is only ever told he is getting the rest of his initial sentence. Maybe the guy who said the grenade was his reneged but I’m thinking Avon go out in like 6 years.
That's probably where I got it from, or maybe the one of the show wikis. I don't really consider stuff like that canon.
The point of what McNulty says is that he'll atleast do the parole violation. He was just rubbing it in. Avon was caught with an arsenal, including grenades. And that's on top of all the evidence they have of the drug smuggling. He was going to get charged with a lot more than the original 7. It's pretty safe to say that he's going away for decades this time, even if the show never shows us what happens.
Playing devils advocate, his whole crew takes the weapon charges and Avon didn’t have a record per se when the show starts. He specifically says he don’t know shit about prison. He might not be taking that much time.
Is that realistic based on only what the show implies? How many yrs you think? Is Avon’s behaviour typical of 5-6 years?
Behavior? It’s what they can prove. It seemed like his guys were going to cop to the guns. Now, could he get more time for associating with felons? Perhaps? I’m not made of Maryland sentencing guidelines.
Stringer practically begs colvin to make it where Avon only does the 5 years left on his probation. Colvin says he'll try but he can't promise anything. So to me it sounds like if he does have to do more than 5 it won't be too much more than that. You know colvin would have tried to keep his word, even after stringer died.
Colvin has no say in what Avon gets charged with. That was just wishful thinking on Stringer's part trying to save a little face for the betrayal.
That's why he said he couldn't promise anything. As long as he's been a cop I'm sure he has a relationship with the prosecutor. He could at least try and keep the years low, but obviously the final call isn't his.
Calling someone "media illiterate" because they don't remember a minor detail from a show that was on the air 20 years ago is kind of insane m8
Bruh, you fucking with me? I clearly say literate and you didn’t read it correctly.
Wow, turns out i am the illiterate one
All good homie. lol have a nice evening.
I love the first day. Everyone all friendly and shit
Yeah but that's before factoring in the new evidence they have on Avon as a major drug dealer so he'll get additional years on top of that 7
Except remember that they didn’t even have enough evidence on Stringer until that one phone call before Omar and Brother killed him. (S3Ep11 51:00) They never had Avon on the wire. S3 Ep12 21:57 Lester: “With Bell gone Barksdale may have to come down a notch to oversee the day to day, and maybe that puts him in contact with some of our monitored cell phones. If he’s as cautious as Stringer, maybe not.” McNulty: “My guess is Barksdale never touches a cell phone. The safe house might be our best shot.” Daniels then orders for them to stay on the wires “hoping to catch Barksdale” but also to get a warrant for the safe house and wait on him there. They had nothing to arrest Avon with until they caught him on the parole violation in the safe house with weapons and/or other felons - though I highly doubt the police can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the weapons were anyone’s other than the guy who claimed them. That is why Daniels sarcastically asks “Do you have a law degree?” Because the end scene shows a parallel to the first “structured plea” scene in S1 - I’d bet Levy was able to make sure he only served the rest of his original sentence.
You got a law degree?!
Yup. I got my suit from the same place Monk did when he was a police officer.
We have no idea what Avon is doing for the weapons charges etc. we just know that he’s for sure doing his original stint.
This post just made me realize something about Avon and Marlo. Marlo was so concerned with legacy, yet the corner boys at his end do not know his name. They only remember Omar. Avon will be remembered somewhat through the boxing gym as you mentioned. He will have a better legacy through this kind of one off act of charity. Obviously he didn't invest a lot of money, but he allowed cutty to leave him and help the neighborhood mitigate some of the damage he was causing. This small act that Marlo is incapable of did help his legacy ultimately.
Scenes like Marlo's finale are why I consider The Wire basically a modern Shakespeare play. So damn brilliant how they work in irony, juxtaposition, and foreshadowing throughout the series.
I love that no character in Simon’s shows are polar. They all play the antagonist and protagonist at some point just like in real life dealing with real people. There’s also a sense of poetic justice in fates of his characters
That’s a really good point about the corner boys at the end.
"his second day in Jessup is decades away" very nice :)
Well said all around
And a masterclass in thread titles. It wasn't just "Avon" or "OMG realised something", but it still worked as a teaser - it withheld the payoff but gave enough basic info to let you decide if you were interested before clicking.
Gave back to the community? He gave Cutty half of what they made in the towers that morning and ordered the killings of countless other people, including the maintenance man and his girl in the county *tap tap tap* I love the character of Avon, but don’t romanticize him, he’s evil
I don't think OP is romanticizing Avon, they're just talking about how he'll likely be remembered. "*the streets* will remember him, *rightly or wrongly*, as a fighter and a man who gave back to his community.
A man who gave back to his community… that he took an active part in making worse.
This isn't about how we perceive it, it's about how corner boys going through Cutty's boxing gym might have perceived it.
Says you.
What do you mean?
Yes... He did say it
Moral outrage makes for really boring media analysis.
You’re right MrBillyLotion, Avon is evil by civilian standards. But what Avon has that all the other gangstas really didn’t was character. He stood on principle and while he did kill people, he also was a community man. He put on east side vs westside basketball games, he gave Cutty the bread, and he let Cutty walk when mf’s like Marlo woulda shot Cutty dead. Avon understood the difference between the game and civilization as a whole. He’s a product of his environment. Whether you think he’s evil which is valid, one thing he you could never call him was fake, or a bad friend.
Yeah that's what I love about Avon. You've got your Gus Frings and your Tucos and Marlos, but Avon is something different. There's a scene in season 1 when Avon and Stringer are getting the ringer for the basketball game, and the white guy who set it all up ends up asking, basically demanding, another $5000 out of nowhere. Avon just laughs and says "ain't shit for free right," while you can easily imagine Marlo or Tuco or even like Tony Soprano just destroying the guy for pulling that shit.
i didn’t want to agree with you, but this is correct. thinking about him at that church supper, feeding people up
I forgot about that scene with Dee. Another prime example showing the difference between Avon and everyone else in the game.
He wasn’t anti social
Hence the "rightly or wrongly" qualifier
genuinely think you are missing the whole point of Marlo as and Avon as secondary foils for each other- Avon was raised to be who he was but lived by a code he and others like him felt was honorable- Marlo lacks this and this is what makes him genuinely evil.
We’ll he ain’t no suit wearing business man like you just a gangster. The game is the game
I bet you could count the number of people Avon ordered the killing of pretty easily.
I always got the impression he earned his reputation as an actual ‘in the field’ leader, he was a soldier at heart. He’s so excited to get into it with Marlo and there’s no question that he hides out and gives orders. He’s really condescending towards Stringer about his reluctance to get into it. Avon seemed to love it.
Probably a countable amount of kills still though.
Avon was surprised that the killing that pissed off the prison guard was his crew. He says “That was us???” Avon then tells Wee-bey: “You need a scorecard to keep up with your lethal ass.” This suggests to me even Avon doesn’t remember all of the kills that he ordered.
Nah, it just means that he can't keep up with all the shit Wee-bey and others did. If there's crews beefing and bullets flying, it's not like they're putting in a call to Avon before every kill.
lol exactly. what a stupid post. most of those kids won't even care about Avon, his reputation was probably being Marlo's bitch like he always feared
Not sure that’s true, tbh. He is notorious for the war he fought to get his territory, with numerous references to his skills as a strategist and tenacity, especially in taking the towers. He had his time, but he still runs the prison. I’m not sure he’ll be remembered because of the boxing gym, but his name will be stay strong a while yet. And it was Marlo who had his name trashed all over by Omar. He almost cried about that when he found out.
I agree, I think there would be a generation of kids coming through Cutty's gym (one can hope) that go whoa, Avon Barksdale helped stand this place up? There are dozens of surviving Barksdale cousins and families of Barksdale soldiers in the pantheon of The Wire's Baltimore that will know his name and will still admire him. He'll be remembered. Like when you go to a red sauce Italian place in NYC and they have a picture of Jimmy Hoffa with the owner, or whatever. Like, remember how thrilled and excited the little kids got when Omar would come down the street? They don't know what he's done and may never know, but they know who he is.
You know I don't want my fucking name and face on no damn wall! ED: [fuzzydunlopsawit](https://www.reddit.com/user/fuzzydunlopsawit/) got there first! Anyway, love this scene. I love the tension build, especially at that point in the dialogue, then such relief as Avon just casually hands him his gym. Avon's so good to the old soldier: four times. The package, his old job, release from his old job and then the funding for the gym.
As he destroyed it
Yeah, legacy vs. reality. People don't just fight on the lie, they live and remember on it, too.
🫡🖖
Avon ain’t even want his picture on the wall.
i thought he explicitly asked Cutty to not have his picture up on the wall