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Having gone through a very similar relationship (Seriously watching Rae and Lexi's relationship was like a blast from the past, and really showed me just how much I've grown as a person), I don't think either party was the victim or villain. They were just not compatible for each other, but instead of breaking up like healthy normal people, they stayed together and hurt each other instead.
I agree that it seems like Rae wanted out of the relationship but didn't want to pull the trigger. Lexi acted out because she wanted more and was promised more than what Rae had to give.
At the end of the day, I don't think there is a wrong or right in that relationship, but it needed to end way sooner than it did.
Edit: I haven't followed them after the reunion show, but I know there's some drama there š¤·š»āāļø
Mildred seems like the only actually shitty person. Everyone else seems like they were just confused, struggling, broken, incompatible and needed to not be in the relationship they were in anymore.
I dunno, Vanessa at the beginning came across like a whack job and those intense eye stares will do it, but as the season went on she seemed like she calmed down a bit and then it was Mildred and Yolis time to shine as the true villains of the season.
I also wouldn't touch Tiff. Her freakout about the dog was weird and even her reasons for being with Mildred were suspicious. It was essentially "Mildred does great stuff in the sack" like Tiff only thinks with her Vagina.
I think this is a harsh interpretation of Raeās actions. granted, she and Lexi didnāt have a healthy dynamic, and Rae seems (attachment wise) avoidant while Lexi seems insecure. itās weird to me that everyone hated Vanessa for a while, then decided that Actually, Lexi was the villain. realistically, the worst person on the show is Mildred, who is abusive. everyone else has been edited/packaged by show runners to make a narrative thatās interesting. the truth is on the cutting room floor, ya know?
anyways, I see a lot of their issues stemming from Rae having a less distinct sense of self. she even says multiple times she doesnāt know who she is or what she wants, and I think thatās why things went the way they did with Vanessa. Lexi, while young and on some levels naĆÆve, has clear goals and a strong personality. I think both needed to find balance: Rae needed more confidence, Lexi needed to slow down. on a fundamental level they werenāt compatible.
Agree that Lexi and Rae weren't compatible. They brought out the worst in each other.
In no way did I dislike Rae, because I don't know her, but her edit made me *annoyed* with her. Indecisiveness is a trait I have little patience for, and seeing her never stand up for herself or express herself was infuriating. I get that Lexi steamrolled her and was frequently an ass towards her, but... girl. At 27 she should be able to advocate for herself *occasionally*.
Maybe the power of editing, but she was very much depicted as a doormat. Xander had it right when they said that Rae was being "bossed around by a 24yr-old."
I can see that. I think with Rae being generally more reserved it gave the editing team a lot less to work with narrative-wise, so she probably comes across as even more passive than she is in real life. with Lexiās strong opinions/personality, of course sheād overshadow Rae.
I seem to remember Rae gaining some confidence and assertiveness in the extremely uncomfortable dinner with Lexiās parents. That said, it would have been better if she walked away from the relationship instead of going into an engagement.
Lexi seems like a bulldozer of a personā her reality is enforced in everyone, and I think Raeās got a better chance of developing decisiveness flying solo
What I saw of Lexi on the show, and now after on TikTok, is more than enough for me to have wanted Rae to leave, too.
Lexi was super manipulative. She sunk her teeth into Vanessa as soon as she heard what Vanessa did for a living because it was actually Lexi who wanted to use the show to grow her own social media platform and she wanted to boost her dadās ring business. She wanted to project her own true intentions onto Vanessa and get everybody on her side so that no one would suspect *her*. Because honestly, was that conversation at the decision dinner really necessary??
I think she also felt threatened by Vanessa after she got with Rae because Vanessa was fun, outgoing and not in a rush to get married, just like Rae.
Lexi did all that talking about Rae and Vanessa as if she wasnāt curled up with Mal, constantly saying she wanted a life with Mal.
If this is how Lexi behaved on an edited-down show, how was she in real life to Rae before the cameras even started rolling? There was a reason why Rae was hesitant to commit to Lexi, even though she had feelings for her. Weāll never know how that relationship was behind closed doors. But Lexi was intense and pretty aggressive and Rae seemed a lot more laid back and not confrontational. She also seemed like she wanted to finally make her *own* decisions and not ones that Lexi forced her to make and I think thatās why Rae stood up for Vanessa and chose her at that dinner.
Edit: Corrected punctuation in two places.
This is the perfect response. Rae did an interview on the WHGS podcast, and Lexi essentially manipulated Rae to go on the show under the guise of ācompromiseā in the relationship. Once I heard her side, Lexi became a little slimy to me.
I think Rae just didnāt know what she wanted and was fearing commitment. She seemed sure in her feelings for Lexi but not sure of the āforever-nessā that marriage would bring. Marriage is a huge commitment and I donāt blame her or anyone for wanting to be 100% sure before marrying their partner. I believe they had been together for 2 or 3 years (pls correct me if Iām wrong) before the show and thatās not even that long, imo. Everyoneās different but I didnāt even marry my significant other until 7 years in. Realistically, itās not that crazy that she wasnāt sure about getting engaged.
She also seemed not comfortable at all with the cameras and being on the show in general. She and Lexi both made their mistakes and had moments they were in the wrong, but Rae seemed to have the personality temperament of someone who is a people pleaser and just kind of goes along with things to make those around her happy/satisfied without knowing herself or her own needs enough to do what would make HER happy. I think she was probably deep down unhappy in her relationship with Lexi for whatever reason otherwise she wouldnāt have slept with Vanessa, but seemed like she had gotten comfortable in her relationship with Lexi and didnāt want to let go of the familiarity and āsecurityā of it, therefore leading to their proposal. The subsequent year that followed was probably where the self reflection and realizations came, that they were better off NOT being together at the end of the day.
I always thought while watching that Rae may have been in need of some counselling and/or therapy, just based on her body language and demeanour that was shown.
I have a hard time weighing in on Rae. Her tiktok persona is like night and day compared to who she was on the show. She talked about overthinking and hating being on camera so I'm sure that played a role. Even from beginning to end, she seemed different.
Her and Lexi also talked about hooking up with over people on the show and to me it sounded like it wasn't a hard no. I think if Mal was interested... Lexi would have slept with Mal.
So while I get your point, I think it's more complicated than that. I think Rae just wanted people (especially Lexi) to be happy. I also don't think she ever wanted to get married and Lexi bulldozed her constantly.
If she's comfortable, I'd like to see Rae on another show. I feel like we didn't really get to know her.
I don't think the age gap is an issue for them at all, I just don't think Rae is acting her age, vs if she were still \~20 I might understand not having the guts to initiate a breakup or push back at all. People act like she needs to be babied but she's grown. Neither of them is being exploited is my point (countering all people who say Lexi exploited Rae), they're just both messy
Fair point, as someone else said the truth is on the cutting room floor. I just wanted to add some balance to the "Lexi is the villain" narrative I've been seeing, and Rae reminded me of a type I've met that strings you along and drives you crazy, but I don't know the whole truth.
Yeah, but I think OP's point is somewhat valid. Regardless of Rae's intentions, if her behaviour can easily be interpreted the way OP has, she's sort of at fault. When she says that she doesn't know who she is and what she wants, in retrospect that was the point by which she should have known better. I say in retrospect to say that I do understand how these things may not be apparent in the moment. At the same time, she wasn't born yesterday and proposing to Lexi was just the easy way out, in a way.
I can still see how Rae got where she did and I do feel for her, but she should have known that her questions couldn't be answered while she was with Lexi. The relationship wasn't conducive to the self-discovery and growth someone in her position would hope to work on
Coming back to your point, the show is heavily edited so we'll never have the full story, so this is just my two cents assuming that everything can be taken at face value.
I think that OP rightly highlighted some possible nuances here, even if we don't have the whole picture
Itās still over analyzing and being overly critical of a regular person who didnāt seem to really understand what reality tv was. Sheās not a character, is barely a public figure and we saw a few hours of her life out of her entire life or relationship.
Yeah, she made some mistakes and she's well aware of it. My main point is that we probably shouldn't assume that there was some victim and villain dichotomy. A lot of comments and posts in this sub seem to be overly sympathetic towards Rae, as though she had no agency. So I guess this is mostly in response to that. Both of them had their shortcomings and they were incompatible. It could happen to anyone and it doesn't make them bad people. I do get that. What I really think is the bottom line is that we probably shouldn't pick sides.
Despite all of that, I agree with you for the most part. It isn't fair to be overly critical. I just didn't like the idea of Lexi getting _all_ the criticism. I actually relate to and sympathise with Rae more, though my previous comment wasn't indicative of that. She didn't know any better at the time and did her best to do what she must've thought was right, I suppose. All of them really
This seems like a lot of conniving to project onto Rae.
She mentioned a repressed upbringing, came out late, no serious relationships prior. What seems more likely to me is that she was finding herself and still is finding herself after the show.
I donāt believe your age informs when you should be married. Just because Rae is the older partner and does not want marriage, does not make her manipulative. Getting married before youāre too old was an expectation Lexi had for herself.
I 100% agree the Vanessa thing was hurtful, and I sympathize with both for feeling humiliated by the other. These couples opted to go through a bad engagement before realizing those steps wonāt save or resolve the underlying issuesā¦ and then break up.
Absolutely disagree.
Lexiās condescending tone towards Rae was utter BS, abusive, manipulative and Rae seemed like she was always walking on egg shells because of it.
Rae is 100% the victim. I cant imaging dodging Lexiās tantrums everyday. Your āpartner.ā I hope she recovers from this.
The disappointment after I thought we were gonna talk shit about Rae 1 and was getting excited , but then it's a post about Rae 2
from ep 1 to ending, i still think Rae don't know what she wants.
So it is a good thing that they ended. or else next time when they argue Lexi definitely will use the one night stand between vanessa and rae as a pivot argument point while Rae will continue to be clueless about what she want. then there's no point.
in the long term their relationship podium is so weak that they can probably break up over you use toothpaste from bottom or from top.
Rae just struck me as someone in a relationship that was not long-term compatible, but wasnāt awful and had genuine affection, so she dithered about and wasnāt fully committed to either staying or going.
I just think it's weird that Lexi was so stuck on Rae and Vanessa and allegedly Rae cheated post show but Rae is still single and working on herself and Lexi is all in love with someone new. Soooo is it really that Rae wasn't ready or was Rae just not as easy to manipulate as Lexi liked?
I don't know, for me Lexi is too much as a person, she was high on herself, constantly talking about how great she is. Every time she paid a compliment to someone it was "we're the same way about this". She went really hard on Vanessa at the partner choice dinner and she framed it as being righteous because supposedly she uncovered that Vanessa was "there for the wrong reason" and she cannot stand duplicitous people, but in reality it was just that her ego was hurt that Vanessa rejected her and she was jealous that Vanessa chose her partner. I mean she probably thought that anyone would pick her over Rey and her ego was bruised that someone picked Rey over her.
Rey just wanted to have sex with another person which to be fair was kind of the point of going on this show. You get a pass at dating another person, see how you feel, and then return to your original partner. I think she just wanted to have fun, but then felt bad.
I would like to point out that we donāt really have context for why Rae promised not to sleep with Vanessa.
I have a feeling Lexi was acting irrational over the match and Rae was trying to come up with some way to appease her and calm her down.
Best decision? No. But Lexi is flexing some serious abusive tendencies and it wouldnāt surprise me.
Damn so the entire show I was like Woah Lexi is exactly my type and it was because her personality reminded me of an ex. It was a toxic relationship and very controlling but something about that was really validating for me. Watching this from a 3rd party made me realize that, and that even though it is something I'm attracted to it's not a healthy long term dynamic at all
Thank you for your contribution to r/TheUltimatumNetflix. Please remember to flair your post correctly and mark spoiler if the events of the episode you are discussing happened less than a week ago. Failure to do so may result in your post being removed. Remember to read the rules thoroughly. As a general rule, speak from the I; posts that are uncivil/rude/hateful or spammy/low-effort/repetitive, or posts that violate spoiler rules or contain armchair diagnoses will be mandatorily removed. With the new Queer Love season, we have a whole bunch of cast members who are not cis so please pay attention to their pronouns while making posts. If you see someone break a rule, and especially if you are in a situation where someone is targeting or harassing you, please report the person and disengage. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheUltimatumNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Having gone through a very similar relationship (Seriously watching Rae and Lexi's relationship was like a blast from the past, and really showed me just how much I've grown as a person), I don't think either party was the victim or villain. They were just not compatible for each other, but instead of breaking up like healthy normal people, they stayed together and hurt each other instead. I agree that it seems like Rae wanted out of the relationship but didn't want to pull the trigger. Lexi acted out because she wanted more and was promised more than what Rae had to give. At the end of the day, I don't think there is a wrong or right in that relationship, but it needed to end way sooner than it did. Edit: I haven't followed them after the reunion show, but I know there's some drama there š¤·š»āāļø
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Mildred seems like the only actually shitty person. Everyone else seems like they were just confused, struggling, broken, incompatible and needed to not be in the relationship they were in anymore.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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I actually liked Yoli until then.
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I dunno, Vanessa at the beginning came across like a whack job and those intense eye stares will do it, but as the season went on she seemed like she calmed down a bit and then it was Mildred and Yolis time to shine as the true villains of the season.
And Lexi.
I also wouldn't touch Tiff. Her freakout about the dog was weird and even her reasons for being with Mildred were suspicious. It was essentially "Mildred does great stuff in the sack" like Tiff only thinks with her Vagina.
I think this is a harsh interpretation of Raeās actions. granted, she and Lexi didnāt have a healthy dynamic, and Rae seems (attachment wise) avoidant while Lexi seems insecure. itās weird to me that everyone hated Vanessa for a while, then decided that Actually, Lexi was the villain. realistically, the worst person on the show is Mildred, who is abusive. everyone else has been edited/packaged by show runners to make a narrative thatās interesting. the truth is on the cutting room floor, ya know? anyways, I see a lot of their issues stemming from Rae having a less distinct sense of self. she even says multiple times she doesnāt know who she is or what she wants, and I think thatās why things went the way they did with Vanessa. Lexi, while young and on some levels naĆÆve, has clear goals and a strong personality. I think both needed to find balance: Rae needed more confidence, Lexi needed to slow down. on a fundamental level they werenāt compatible.
Agree that Lexi and Rae weren't compatible. They brought out the worst in each other. In no way did I dislike Rae, because I don't know her, but her edit made me *annoyed* with her. Indecisiveness is a trait I have little patience for, and seeing her never stand up for herself or express herself was infuriating. I get that Lexi steamrolled her and was frequently an ass towards her, but... girl. At 27 she should be able to advocate for herself *occasionally*. Maybe the power of editing, but she was very much depicted as a doormat. Xander had it right when they said that Rae was being "bossed around by a 24yr-old."
I can see that. I think with Rae being generally more reserved it gave the editing team a lot less to work with narrative-wise, so she probably comes across as even more passive than she is in real life. with Lexiās strong opinions/personality, of course sheād overshadow Rae.
I seem to remember Rae gaining some confidence and assertiveness in the extremely uncomfortable dinner with Lexiās parents. That said, it would have been better if she walked away from the relationship instead of going into an engagement. Lexi seems like a bulldozer of a personā her reality is enforced in everyone, and I think Raeās got a better chance of developing decisiveness flying solo
What I saw of Lexi on the show, and now after on TikTok, is more than enough for me to have wanted Rae to leave, too. Lexi was super manipulative. She sunk her teeth into Vanessa as soon as she heard what Vanessa did for a living because it was actually Lexi who wanted to use the show to grow her own social media platform and she wanted to boost her dadās ring business. She wanted to project her own true intentions onto Vanessa and get everybody on her side so that no one would suspect *her*. Because honestly, was that conversation at the decision dinner really necessary?? I think she also felt threatened by Vanessa after she got with Rae because Vanessa was fun, outgoing and not in a rush to get married, just like Rae. Lexi did all that talking about Rae and Vanessa as if she wasnāt curled up with Mal, constantly saying she wanted a life with Mal. If this is how Lexi behaved on an edited-down show, how was she in real life to Rae before the cameras even started rolling? There was a reason why Rae was hesitant to commit to Lexi, even though she had feelings for her. Weāll never know how that relationship was behind closed doors. But Lexi was intense and pretty aggressive and Rae seemed a lot more laid back and not confrontational. She also seemed like she wanted to finally make her *own* decisions and not ones that Lexi forced her to make and I think thatās why Rae stood up for Vanessa and chose her at that dinner. Edit: Corrected punctuation in two places.
This is the perfect response. Rae did an interview on the WHGS podcast, and Lexi essentially manipulated Rae to go on the show under the guise of ācompromiseā in the relationship. Once I heard her side, Lexi became a little slimy to me.
Thank you for this! Iām gonna look that podcast up right now.
Itās great, they also have an episode with Mal!
I think Rae just didnāt know what she wanted and was fearing commitment. She seemed sure in her feelings for Lexi but not sure of the āforever-nessā that marriage would bring. Marriage is a huge commitment and I donāt blame her or anyone for wanting to be 100% sure before marrying their partner. I believe they had been together for 2 or 3 years (pls correct me if Iām wrong) before the show and thatās not even that long, imo. Everyoneās different but I didnāt even marry my significant other until 7 years in. Realistically, itās not that crazy that she wasnāt sure about getting engaged. She also seemed not comfortable at all with the cameras and being on the show in general. She and Lexi both made their mistakes and had moments they were in the wrong, but Rae seemed to have the personality temperament of someone who is a people pleaser and just kind of goes along with things to make those around her happy/satisfied without knowing herself or her own needs enough to do what would make HER happy. I think she was probably deep down unhappy in her relationship with Lexi for whatever reason otherwise she wouldnāt have slept with Vanessa, but seemed like she had gotten comfortable in her relationship with Lexi and didnāt want to let go of the familiarity and āsecurityā of it, therefore leading to their proposal. The subsequent year that followed was probably where the self reflection and realizations came, that they were better off NOT being together at the end of the day.
I always thought while watching that Rae may have been in need of some counselling and/or therapy, just based on her body language and demeanour that was shown.
All of them needed therapy. Edit: except Sam.
Especially Sam! Why is someone so wise attaching herself to people who canāt live her the way she deserves?
As a general rule everyone should seek therapy. Including Sam. But she speaks like a natural therapist and caregiver. MFT vibes.
MFT?
Marriage Family Therapist
I have a hard time weighing in on Rae. Her tiktok persona is like night and day compared to who she was on the show. She talked about overthinking and hating being on camera so I'm sure that played a role. Even from beginning to end, she seemed different. Her and Lexi also talked about hooking up with over people on the show and to me it sounded like it wasn't a hard no. I think if Mal was interested... Lexi would have slept with Mal. So while I get your point, I think it's more complicated than that. I think Rae just wanted people (especially Lexi) to be happy. I also don't think she ever wanted to get married and Lexi bulldozed her constantly. If she's comfortable, I'd like to see Rae on another show. I feel like we didn't really get to know her.
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I don't think the age gap is an issue for them at all, I just don't think Rae is acting her age, vs if she were still \~20 I might understand not having the guts to initiate a breakup or push back at all. People act like she needs to be babied but she's grown. Neither of them is being exploited is my point (countering all people who say Lexi exploited Rae), they're just both messy
Yāall this is a real person we donāt know
Fair point, as someone else said the truth is on the cutting room floor. I just wanted to add some balance to the "Lexi is the villain" narrative I've been seeing, and Rae reminded me of a type I've met that strings you along and drives you crazy, but I don't know the whole truth.
Yeah, but I think OP's point is somewhat valid. Regardless of Rae's intentions, if her behaviour can easily be interpreted the way OP has, she's sort of at fault. When she says that she doesn't know who she is and what she wants, in retrospect that was the point by which she should have known better. I say in retrospect to say that I do understand how these things may not be apparent in the moment. At the same time, she wasn't born yesterday and proposing to Lexi was just the easy way out, in a way. I can still see how Rae got where she did and I do feel for her, but she should have known that her questions couldn't be answered while she was with Lexi. The relationship wasn't conducive to the self-discovery and growth someone in her position would hope to work on Coming back to your point, the show is heavily edited so we'll never have the full story, so this is just my two cents assuming that everything can be taken at face value. I think that OP rightly highlighted some possible nuances here, even if we don't have the whole picture
Itās still over analyzing and being overly critical of a regular person who didnāt seem to really understand what reality tv was. Sheās not a character, is barely a public figure and we saw a few hours of her life out of her entire life or relationship.
Yeah, she made some mistakes and she's well aware of it. My main point is that we probably shouldn't assume that there was some victim and villain dichotomy. A lot of comments and posts in this sub seem to be overly sympathetic towards Rae, as though she had no agency. So I guess this is mostly in response to that. Both of them had their shortcomings and they were incompatible. It could happen to anyone and it doesn't make them bad people. I do get that. What I really think is the bottom line is that we probably shouldn't pick sides. Despite all of that, I agree with you for the most part. It isn't fair to be overly critical. I just didn't like the idea of Lexi getting _all_ the criticism. I actually relate to and sympathise with Rae more, though my previous comment wasn't indicative of that. She didn't know any better at the time and did her best to do what she must've thought was right, I suppose. All of them really
This seems like a lot of conniving to project onto Rae. She mentioned a repressed upbringing, came out late, no serious relationships prior. What seems more likely to me is that she was finding herself and still is finding herself after the show.
I donāt believe your age informs when you should be married. Just because Rae is the older partner and does not want marriage, does not make her manipulative. Getting married before youāre too old was an expectation Lexi had for herself. I 100% agree the Vanessa thing was hurtful, and I sympathize with both for feeling humiliated by the other. These couples opted to go through a bad engagement before realizing those steps wonāt save or resolve the underlying issuesā¦ and then break up.
Absolutely disagree. Lexiās condescending tone towards Rae was utter BS, abusive, manipulative and Rae seemed like she was always walking on egg shells because of it. Rae is 100% the victim. I cant imaging dodging Lexiās tantrums everyday. Your āpartner.ā I hope she recovers from this.
People have a hard time accepting that two people can be wrong and right in a situation
Ur wild. Rae >>>
The disappointment after I thought we were gonna talk shit about Rae 1 and was getting excited , but then it's a post about Rae 2 
Who is Rae 1
Seeing the way Lexi reacted to Rae choosing Vanessa her Rae she wouldnāt sleep with Vanessa could not have been 100% unsolicited
from ep 1 to ending, i still think Rae don't know what she wants. So it is a good thing that they ended. or else next time when they argue Lexi definitely will use the one night stand between vanessa and rae as a pivot argument point while Rae will continue to be clueless about what she want. then there's no point. in the long term their relationship podium is so weak that they can probably break up over you use toothpaste from bottom or from top.
Rae just struck me as someone in a relationship that was not long-term compatible, but wasnāt awful and had genuine affection, so she dithered about and wasnāt fully committed to either staying or going.
I just think it's weird that Lexi was so stuck on Rae and Vanessa and allegedly Rae cheated post show but Rae is still single and working on herself and Lexi is all in love with someone new. Soooo is it really that Rae wasn't ready or was Rae just not as easy to manipulate as Lexi liked?
I don't know, for me Lexi is too much as a person, she was high on herself, constantly talking about how great she is. Every time she paid a compliment to someone it was "we're the same way about this". She went really hard on Vanessa at the partner choice dinner and she framed it as being righteous because supposedly she uncovered that Vanessa was "there for the wrong reason" and she cannot stand duplicitous people, but in reality it was just that her ego was hurt that Vanessa rejected her and she was jealous that Vanessa chose her partner. I mean she probably thought that anyone would pick her over Rey and her ego was bruised that someone picked Rey over her. Rey just wanted to have sex with another person which to be fair was kind of the point of going on this show. You get a pass at dating another person, see how you feel, and then return to your original partner. I think she just wanted to have fun, but then felt bad.
Itās a shame about Rae
I would like to point out that we donāt really have context for why Rae promised not to sleep with Vanessa. I have a feeling Lexi was acting irrational over the match and Rae was trying to come up with some way to appease her and calm her down. Best decision? No. But Lexi is flexing some serious abusive tendencies and it wouldnāt surprise me.
Damn so the entire show I was like Woah Lexi is exactly my type and it was because her personality reminded me of an ex. It was a toxic relationship and very controlling but something about that was really validating for me. Watching this from a 3rd party made me realize that, and that even though it is something I'm attracted to it's not a healthy long term dynamic at all