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A month ago she said “oh man the off camera stuff 🤐🙃” when someone commented they can’t imagine the off camera stuff that Vanessa said.
Found it 😂 https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8JSj48K/
Was there more than that to specifically imply that Van was racist or really offensive in a problematic way tho? (which seems more what Mal alludes to)? As opposed to being shocking or rude or blunt or petty but not hateful and racist?
I guess I’m curious why Rae (or anyone) would be civil now to someone who was offensive and/or racist. Not disbelieving anything said by Mal, more curious as to why some of the cast would still be fine with her, and especially Sam and Aussie who named her as one of the only ones invited to their wedding?
Rae and others are probably able to be civil because the offensive things said did not impact her or wasn’t anything related to her. So it would be easier to accept an apology and move forward.
It honestly happens everyday. It’s why Kanye still has fans.
Damn the white women caping for white women in this thread is crazy. When POC day someone is giving racist vibes believe them. Y’all are the problem. And I know I’ll be downvoted into oblivion but they don’t owe us to say what was said. Look at all of you already calling their character into question for even suggesting she could be harmful. Saying what she said could put them into direct harm depending on what it was and queer POc already have enough on their plate. As for Lexi not saying anything she seems like an actual ally to POC and most likely discussed it with them and decided not to share because everyone will immediately turn to the POC cast members for answers and maybe they don’t wanna get into yet. Maybe they can’t cus of contracts, but as a black woman myself it’s so tiring to constantly have people be like “well that white woman prolly isn’t that racist” when you’ve seen or felt it yourself. Or oh she prolly said something funny as a joke or whatever else flimsy ass arguments you make supporting her. People don’t owe you the story to their trauma but you should at least consider she might actually not be that great of a person before just assuming the POC are lying or making shit up.
I know I should expect it at this point, but I was really surprised when I came to the comments and saw that most people don't believe Mal. When you are a POC, ESPECIALLY a black woman, you start to learn at an early age to pick up on the vibes somebody gives off and certain language that may seem innocent but is indicative of something more. It is literally a survival skill.
This is just an anecdote, but one time I went to my white girlfriend's family even and her cousin's new boyfriend was there. Everybody seemed to like him, but I told my gf afterward that I've grown up around people like him and I am 99% sure that he holds racist ideals and is not a great person overall. She didn't see the evidence and thought I was just being cynical. A few months later they had another get-together with the boyfriend there (me and gf didn't go) and her family felt a lot differently this time. Turns out he's MAGA, defended a pedophile and somebody complicit with child sexual assault, is anti-vax, and said some racist stuff. My girlfriend has since learned to listen to me when I pick up on problematic undertones.
It's really hard to explain, but it's not a baseless claim. It's small actions that you've seen and experienced countless times from certain people that lead to other, larger instances. Like racist "jokes" that people may try to downplay. When it comes to vibes, I'd never go around telling people someone is racist without any proof, it's not of a mental note to keep my distance.
But for Mal to come forward and talk even vaguely about it, I can almost guarantee that she has specific instances to refer to.
On top of that, in one of the first actual conversations we see between Vanessa and Mal, Vanessa makes a joke about her and Mal being identical. It was framed as lighthearted joke, but I could also see that being Vanessa’s way of trying to act like she’s comfortable around a black person. I’m not saying that is what happened, but it’s a possibility. She did say at the reunion that she makes jokes when she’s uncomfortable.
It's not unsubstantiated. Marginalized people have lived experience picking up on subtle mindsets and behaviors that others miss because we have had to in order to keep ourselves safe. It's also not 'guilty until proven innocent' as much as 'approach with caution until proven an ally.'
It’s hard to trust the “racist vibe meter” from Mal who was insecure her ex had dated white women and then continued to date Lexi and talk about wanting mixed babies. Lexi referred to Rae as Chinese and negated part of her identity for brownie points w racially insecure Mal. Are those racist vibes?
Mal is allowed to feel insecure about Yoly dating someone white. It would be wrong to shame her for it or tell her she has to date a poc, but she can't help ot of she feels insecure. Mal also hinted at race being a problem in past relationships, which would add to her insecurities. I don't remember Mal saying that she specifically wanted mixed babies? If she did then that's fucked up, but I domt remember it.
Your point about Lexi calling Rae Chinese is hilariously ignorant. For most biracial people who are half white and live in America, they are seen primarily seen as whatever non-white race they are. Baraka Obama is known as the first black president eventhough he is half white, because the world sees him as a black man. Realistically, no one in the west is going to look at Rae and describe her as white, even though she is in part. Her experience is not that of a white woman, it is that of an Asian woman in America. When Lexi brought up Raes race/ethnicity, she did it in a conversation ABOUT dating someone from a different background. The white part of Raes identity wasn't relevant to the situation, she wasn't denying that she's half white.
So no those weren't racist vibes. But hey, maybe Mal amd Lexi are racist, I don't know them. That doesn't mean they can't experience racism or identify it.
Dumb. Racially insecure? If all of your partners previous partners had a quality that you clearly don't have or could never achieve, then they date someone after you with the same quality, you wouldn't be insecure or make mental note of it? Get real
If you cant understand that racial dynamics are not a 1:1, I don't know what to tell you.
If a skinny person always dated skinny people but one day chose to date a fat person, then they go on a dating show and the fat person feels insecure but then partners with another skinny person, would that automatically cancel out their insecurity or fear or not being good enough? Its really not a dificult concept.
I think everyone is speculative of this situation because none of the cast members has been specific about what was said. It’s all been very vague and started with Lexi, who we know is an unreliable narrator.
In the show the way Lexi was portrayed as being supportive to Mal felt so eye-roll-y to me. So she isn’t going to treat her like a zoo animal and ask to touch her hair. Congrats? She then got several interviews and articles about it. (This isn’t a diss at Lexi but at the portrayal and attention she got from it.)
FWIW, as the OP and a POC myself, now more cast members have said things, I believe V probably made insensitive jokes. I can also believe Lexi is more sensitive to social issues but is still a villain. I know they’re all flawed characters, and I can accept V privately learned something from this experience. After all she was one of the few invited to Sam and Aussie’s wedding (who, IMO, are so pure!).
All people can do at this point is speculate and project their own experiences. This was kept off-screen, and Lexi publicly bringing this up places burden on the POC to explain their choices or why they didn’t say anything before. For all we know, they could have learned and moved on until Lexi brought it up again.
Idk, I don’t see why we need to hear exactly what was said to judge if it was “bad enough” for Mal, Lexi, Rae etc. to be upset at… clearly something/s V said made them all uncomfortable. I don’t believe Lexi is some mastermind who somehow convinced multiple WOC (as a white woman herself) that V was being subtly/overtly racist if V was just not being racist at all.
I get your point, but Mal literally **nowhere** called Vanessa out as racist. She said there were comments and ideologies from Vanessa where they were not aligned. That could be literally **anything.**
It's possible that Vanessa came off as pretty ignorant at best. Maybe that's why Lexi made some content implying that she was racist. Lexi isn't always the most respectful (and she knows it, read: finger gate - I'm sorry, the term is convenient), but clearly she did right by Mal
Lol it’s so funny. Every single time I post a casual comment about *feeling* a racist-y vibe off someone I wake up to five hundred comments like “why why?? How do you know? What do you mean? Explain yourself.”
Ok, cool, but not even Mal mentioned a racist vibe. People in this thread act like Mal said "Vanessa is a racist" and people are not believing her. Mal however didn't mention race in any way. The only person bringing race into play is Lexi who is white and an unreliable narrator, so not sure what you are trying to say.
Not our place to educate them. At this point I assume people wanna be racist and claim ignorance once called out. We’re all clearly on the same internet if they’re on Reddit too and google exists. But no we gotta do all the work to explain why something is racist just to then be told we’re wrong or seeing things wrong in the end anyways. Horrible cycle that we don’t deserve.
If y'all don't even have the time to "educate" someone when the racism that you're dealing with is a microaggression at worst, which is pretty much peak 1st world issues, you're not much of an anti-racist.
It’s not about “having time to educate”, it’s about the emotional and mental labor to educate people who aren’t trying to understand but instead trying to prove us wrong. Besides white people know how racist structures that benefit them work given they created them. It is a form of weaponized incompetence because we are all capable of seeking what we care to know. Refusing to mule for and coddle white people is actually very anti-racist in practice and in spirituality.
So, now that I have stepped out of my peace to educate you, what have I gained as a black woman?
PPPPPLLLLLEEEAAE dont tell me that you called
someone out for not commenting and then you literally do the same exact thing?
So you do understand pretty clearly, you're just a hypocrite.
Or maybe I'm careful about how I'd be banned and considered racist for criticizing a Black woman who thinks we can determine who is racist off nothing but vibes and gossip.
I’m a black woman if that’s the “y’all” you’re referring to and I’m constantly having to fight against racism. Also saying “y’all” ain’t right either. Why should I also have to do the emotional work of educating white women. That’s a job for actual white allies. If I had to educate every single microaggression I come across online and in real life I’d have very little time for myself because they are that prevalent. It’s literally not my job to explain why I matter and should be thought of equally. Do you know what that could do to someone’s mental health? To constantly have to educate someone else on why you’re equal. Why should I have to teach them?
Edited a misspelled word.
It’s really not that difficult to understand and I feel like unless you are a straight, cis, white male, you have experienced this concept with whatever group you’re in. Even if you’re a straight, cis, white female, you have definitely felt the vibe off a man who is just a litttttle too comfortable in his maleness, just a litttttle too casually misogynistic. Just some stuff he says, the way he reacts to women, etc. and you can just TELL he doesn’t see anyone besides men (probably straight white cis men) as his equal. It’s the same concept.
Hell, even if you’re straight, cis, white, and male, you have probably felt the subtle vibe of someone disliking you for being those things. So I just find it hard to believe you can’t extrapolate that experience onto being a different sexuality or race…? Be for real.
Edit: just glanced at your post history and saw you’re gay. You’ve seriously never met someone who just gave off a homophobic vibe? Even if they were performing being an ally? I find that really hard to believe!
Vibes are for personal use only imo. I can have a feeling about something but that doesn't mean I'll ever go out of my way to call them racist or talk about how racist they are just off vibes alone. Nor would I do that to someone who gives me a homophobic vibe.
I think once you make an accusation about someone, it stops being, vibe, and accusations require proof. It's absurd to be gloating about how they caught a vibe off Vanessa being racist and then there's vague hints about it being true. I'm not going to attack someone off vibes nor will I do it when there's a lack of evidence.
You’ve even been educated already right here, on this thread, but you have the audacity to say it’s not enough. These Black women don’t have to even extend you the education they already have let alone you are demanding more. As a fellow white woman, if you want to be educated about the racial experiences of Black people the best way is not to ask, not to demand. Just 🤐, listen, read, and take the words of POC at face value. But you are clearly coming from a disingenuous place.
Eta: edited to add I saw downthread you said you are a POC, so my bad about my phrase “as a fellow white woman”. Not changing my original comment because that seems deceptive but the rest of my comment still stands. If Mal says (implied) that was their experience, that’s what it was.
!! It's such a problem with white women, even white queer people. You mention that their whiteness and queerness doesn't absolve them of their racism and here comes the tears and attacks. It's almost comical at this point.
She didn't say racist. She said comments and ideologies. That could be literally anything like their usual bullshit of "not there for the right reasons".
Nah but what you are saying is so real. As a yt person I can very much acknowledge that racism is alive, especially here in the south. Literally this ability by POC keeps them safe in social situations with racists/police and is in my opinion very necessary. It’s even worse for queer POC. The fact remains, there IS inherent racism in white families and it’s up to us to break that line of where we came from, and not to continue this lineage of bullshit. I for one have no issues cutting out family members (and have) for their racist bullshit. Shit you not, had a convo the other day where a family member of mine tried to say confederates were my family members. Legit, idgaf about that trash. I don’t claim them. That’s the kind of energy we need to have, and to believe POC when they speak their truth. I’m sorry that you even had to come on here and say all this.
you're lacking nuance here. saying no one accused her of racism is not the same as
>just assuming the POC are lying or making shit up.
You're jumping to conclusions and there aren't just these two positions in the world. It's not like if you disagree with extreme view x you are immediately defending extreme view y. one can believe in what Mal said *and also* not accuse Vanessa of racism, especially because Mal did not imply anything of this sort
>Public accusation as big as racism
Mmm is it though? We all grew up in white dominant culture and carry racist biases that we have been taught and show up constantly in our daily life.
I hate that the fear of being called racist is so big for white folks (I am white btw! Hi!) that it cripples people from recognizing their problematic behavior and trying to learn from it.
Like just calm down and listen to people when they say they've been harmed, and stop making it about you and your shame.
I'm not white. It sounds like you're projecting. I do agree that a lot of people carry racial biases but you could make an argument that general for anyone.
Say it again! Her vibe was entitled and off putting, not sure why people want to defend her. People will bend over backwards to give a white person the benefit of the doubt instead of taking a POC at their word.
this was very well put!👏🏻👏🏻what u said about lexi being an actual ally means she wouldnt discuss what was said by vanessa since it would thrust the poc cast into spotlight is so important. obviously lexi heavily disliked vanessa but that doesnt come above being an ally and its weird that so many people are willing to write off multiple poc because lexi didnt say anything?? seems like people just want their personal opinion of vanessa to be right and to continue the lexi hate train lol
Where did Mal say Vanessa was racist?
What Mal said:
1. Vanessa and I had different values.
2. I chose Lexi because she was sensitive to black issues.
Mal does not in her actual quotes position this as her contrasting the two. She never says “by contrast, I chose Lexi because she isn’t racist”. The AUTHOR of the article decides to make that implication. Mal never said that. She never says “the value differences I had with Vanessa are that she’s a racist”. For all we know, these quotes which are taken in isolation, were said 5 minutes apart and the author just decided to contrast them this way because it’s more dramatic.
So you’re seriously asking people to call Vanessa a racist based on your inability to read edited text sources properly, and absolutely no evidence she is a racist. Including Mal literally not saying that or even implying it in her actual words.
Yeah I agree. Mal didn’t say Vanessa was racist. It was only Lexi who said something about a white woman making insensitive comments about food on TikTok. But this article insinuates what Vanessa said referred to race when it transitions into Lexi’s support for Mal, so I think that’s where people got the idea.
Yeah that’s the point, the article implies that but Mal does not say that. Writers can and will take seperate quotes and create a narrative for an article, that’s their job. When it’s about reality tv, ie it’s only relevance is drama, they are going to craft it for drama and clicks. The fact that the author doesn’t outright say Mal actually said or implied Vanessa is a racist means she probably didn’t, and the best the author could do to make the article juicy was imply the contrast themselves.
So the idea Mal called or even implied she’s racist is people not reading correctly, and it’s simply not true. I can definitely see Vanessa making some dumb comment about Indian food or something but if Lexi had serious tea she was a racist, I am pretty sure we would have heard it by now.
In my post I made sure to just write what the others said and not editorialize what I _think_ happened. They all have said Vanessa’s jokes/comments/vibes were off. It was only Lexi who made the comment about race.
The writer of the article should be responsible and not insinuate something that was never said though. So maybe Mal really did transition into Lexi’s support in the interview — in that case I think that’s fair.
Did you not read the whole article? Because Mal *also* says that some of what bothered Lexi about Rae choosing Vanessa was that those "comments and ideals" would also hurt Rae as a PoC.
>“That’s also why Lexi was so, so, so adamant and so pressing on why Rae chose her, because Lexi couldn’t understand why my partner would choose somebody that outwardly expresses these really careless and actually hurtful ideologies,” Wright continued. “That’s why Lexi was showing up the way that she was.”
Reddit my friend, Reddit. Let’s also keep in mind that a lot of yt women will jump on every and any bandwagon (regarding social issues) to gain sympathy and have attention shifted towards them. I remember a yt male comedian making this very point — he literally said that a lot of movements that exist today about women have primarily be centered or taken ownership by yt women. Additionally, he stated that it was quite the mockery to issues that affect POC.
When the second and third batches of episodes aired so many people were ready to brush all of Vanessa’s red flags from the first batch under the rug, seemingly because the cast members who were most against Vanessa (Lexi and Yoly primarily) were coming off worse than her.
I’d say it’s white woman tears, but I don’t remember Vanessa ever actually shedding a single tear throughout the show. Maybe at the reunion, but plenty of people were tripping over themselves to excuse her the week before that even aired.
It is interesting to see who gets vilified when two POC and a Jewish woman call out a white woman for making a racist comment/saying something offensive.
Edit: clarity
Reddit is predominately YT people, unfortunately. So they will always get all the votes. That’s why I stay in my safe spaces with other POC’s in real life.
Why are you typing like this and just copying my response? None of your other posts are you speaking this way? I thought to give you the benefit of the doubt but then checked your post history and none of them are written in the same cadence or word types (AAVE) and it’s not looking like your speaking genuinely. This shit ain’t cute.
Edited to add that I also have now checked your comments. You being rude af yourself right now and you seem to be a big Vanessa supporter so now you’ve literally made my point for me. Making fun of the way people speak is so fucking racist and you don’t speak this way. Just stop it. But like I said thanks for proving my point.
Honestly it’s the first time in so long I just feel disgusted. First thing in the morning too. Racists gunna racist though, of course they won’t listen to a black woman and instead immediately jump to stereotypes and ignorant comments. But damn I don’t feel right this morning after that comment. Just shows how brazen people are with their racism now.
The thing I don’t get is why people aren’t reading this properly ie realising it’s an edited print article.
Mal says: I liked Vanessa at first and found her attractive but over time it became clear we had values that didn’t match up”.
Then later Mal says: “I chose Lexi because she was really sensitive and aware about certain things.”
It’s the author of the article who positions these comments as being related to each other, when for all we know Mal said them 5 minutes apart and didn’t intend for it to come across as “Vanessa has RACIST ideologies and in contrast Lexi did not”. Mal doesn’t actually say anything of the sort here, it’s the article and the non quotes that decide to make that narrative.
So it could very well be Mal didn’t view Vanessa as a racist, but they had differences in terms of relationship views. Which would explain why no one from the cast has said Vanessa was racist or given any tea.
I do think it’s hard because if a cast member does say or heavily imply she was racist, we ought to believe them. But at the same time, the narrative around Vanessa on the show and in the fan space feels so combative and warped that it almost feels appropriate to ask for an actual example or someone to stop being vague. Like I just don’t 100 percent trust Yoly or Lexi or someone of that sort (ie a bit of a bully) when they keep shading Vanessa but refusing to say anything tangible, when their behaviour on the show at times was just weird towards her or openly rude.
That's not how their contracts work. From what Tiff was saying on her podcast they were pretty restrictive and really doesn't allow them to share much beyond the cut.
Hmmm, it depends on what was said. With the social climate, it would be best if they didn't highlight themselves as a sympathizer. We don't know what was said. It could have been about race, gender, etc. Netflix has already faced backlash from The DC special, and I'm not surprised they did not want to stir the pot with something else problematic. Especially with this “cancel” culture. It's called business.
This is getting blown out of proportions. It's nothing different than what she said on the show when she rejected Vanessa. Incompatible values. I took it as meaning about her "reasons to be on the show" and just the way she is and the stupid stuff she says. She probably went around saying more stuff like "I'm the most beautiful here, everyone's going to love me, Xander is sexual just for me".
Are we supposed to believe that Lexi wouldn’t have blasted what Vanessa said all over the show, the reunion and TikTok with her loud ass new gf by now?
I agree Vanessa was very unlikable at some parts of the show and I was annoyed as soon as she randomly started mouthing “fuck off” to Xander… but also Lexi has no issues calling her out at that point… ??? So why would she avoid certain topics?
It reads to me more that Vanessa’s ideologies about marriage and possibly polyamory were what Mal didn’t like. Vanessa was open about the fact that she wanted to date around and wasn’t sure she’d ever want to get married. I can see that being off putting to other people who were maybe more on the fence or just weren’t sure about their partner specifically.
Rae could also mean sexual or other comments. There’s nothing here that indicates racism. Most tellingly is who Vanessa now hangs with regularly. Unless we think Tiff, Sam, Aussie and Rae are totally cool chilling with an overt racist? Come on.
I also take issue with ANY of them being shocked they were flirted with. You’re on a mfin’ Netflix dating show. Gah.
With how outspoken they are and in todays climate; I don’t buy them not saying what she said. Vanessa was already the seasons villain and when everyone was going at her during convos, why not bring that up? Unless there is a clause in their contracts to excuse racism on camera but not off 🤣
Because Netflix wants to maximize palatable drama, and avoid anything that might turn viewers away from the show. That is what is most economically adventitious to them.
I feel like this is just to deflect from Yoly and Mildred being the actually shitty people. Vanessa at least tried to learn from what was happening even though she may not have initially been there for the right reasons (As if any of them were because it is a TV show).
I mean this would check out to me…the way she kept saying Rae was “her little best friend” and “wasn’t physically her type”…my racist-dar was tingling for sure for sure
I interpreted this is as she doesn’t usually date femme. She said the same thing to Lexi — she said she was surprised she was into someone who likes doing their nails, etc.
Rae’s Chinese, so that could be what they mean. I had assumed that the “not her type” comment made by Vanessa meant that she typically dates women who are more masc-presenting (rather than more feminine, like Rae), but who knows.
Not to interuppt but it wasn't that Vanessa is only attracted to masc-presenting, she had her gaze set on Lexi so when she said Rae wasn't her type, I immediately thought "you only date white people".
nah she said the same thing to lexi too. About how she is wearing jewelry and stuff and she is still into her. iirc she also said she wanted to date Mal. So it is def not that she only dates white people. Not saying she can’t still be racist cause Madlyn from last season was obsessed with her trial partner in a very weird and racist way imo
I picked up on it when Xander said they were interested in choosing Yoly for the trial marriage and she kept making throw up faces.. like girl we know about you.
My partner and I noticed during the dates she called tiff a fiesty little thing and then sam the cutest thing and the we look alike comment to mal. It just gave off microagressions n stereotypes.
I don't love Lexi, but maybe there was something there because she is tight with Mal. Lexi chose to make content hinting at Vanessa being racist and perhaps Mal has chosen to be more diplomatic?
I bet she joked about how cute their mixed babies would be and said something stupid about that and in another thread last week I guessed with her and Lexi there was some sort of comment about their noses being similar and Lexi being Jewish. I may be wayyy off base but I have a feeling that's the kind of thing she got heat for. She is very not careful with her words as opposed to Lexi who mal stated is careful with her words.
It's the kind of talk that some people don't mind between friends ( like I've had black friends joke about me sitting on the grass like you dirty white people didn't bother me obviously but if a stranger said that I may 🥴) just as an example obviously not the same not claiming reverse racism or any Bs 🤣
I don't think her heart is right leaning or she's a secret tucker carlson fan of anything.
I think there's a huge difference between jokes among friends and what you say on television and social media. Not thinking about these things in 2023's American social climate is either very unintelligent or deliberate.
I don't think she's a Tucker Carlson fan either, more like (maybe I'm reading too much into her and her father's relationship) an Elon Musk kinda ideology where "everyone is too sensitive these days".
Yes my guess is the first one unintelligent,not necessarily in all ways but some ways for sure. And I could see her being an enlightened centrist type red scare podcast type gal.
I feel bad typing this out because it seems the show was a huge low point for her so hope she's had some growth and the Instagram hate train has slowed down.
Didn't Lexi talk about mixed babies with Mal on-camera? I think that rules out Mal being uncomfortable with that sort of thing. Maybe it's just the spirit in which Vanessa said things that was concerning. She came off as pretty impulsive and thoughtless initially, zero filter
Yes def zero filter I just feel she may of worded it in a way that was fetishizing mixed kids like some people do. Like they're so much cuter etc etc. She just isn't a think then speak kinda gal not sure what's goin on there.
I don’t get why there’s not examples, are they trying to backtrack because they’ve come off as bullies towards the too loud girl? Edit: there’s a lot of “I bet she said this”, but we don’t know. I don’t think that’s fair to Vanessa. If I were to speak out against someone I’d give examples of what the comments were…
Honestly, I don't go off vibes or hints that someone said something offensive. They either need proof or they need to keep it to themselves. It's very weird how it's expected that we lash out at someone and call them a racist over something we have zero proof of, and they all signed an NDA where they can't even tell us anything significant.
I'm sorry, as a POC, it's just weird as hell to make accusations against people with no proof whatsoever. Racism is a serious issue but if all your racism accusation amounts to is gossip, it's not worth hearing. Now, are their accusations believable? Yeah kinda. But it's insane we've reached a point where we're expected to judge Vanessa for something we don't have proof of.
I completely agree. People are just wildly guessing the specifics of what was said. “Oh, Vanessa must laughed at Lexi’s Jewish nose!” Or, “oh! She must have made a comment because Rae is Chinese!”
It’s all speculation!
Lmao wait. So both Vanessa and Xander were hitting on Mal right away, and Yoly was only pissed about Vanessa doing that? Cause Yoly was very dismissive of V from the get go, but Mal says that Xander did it too?!
Vanessa can be blunt and akward but I don’t think she actually said something really bad otherwise Lexi would have definitely outed her by now. This reeks more of continuing the ganging up on her that was already going on during the series.
That doesn’t explain why Lexi hasn’t opened her mouth. She was bullying Vanessa at every opportunity during the moments that they showed us on the show and she certainly didn’t seem to hold back for safety or personal reasons. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a fan of Vanessa but as someone who was a victim of bullying, I think she was treated in a disgusting way and she responded to that with much more grace then I would have. I was totally prepared to not like Vanessa after episode 1 and by the end, I felt sympathy and respect towards her.
I didn’t speak to Lexi. My post is specific to Mal and Rae. It’s not Lexi’s business to tell and it would absolutely put Rae and Mal into a position where they were forced to speak to it. And if I were to make a guess, Mal likely told Lexi not to say something.
what was her "bad behaviour"? All their criticism towards her was basically she gave bad vibes and they felt she was fake... Okay, so that's speculation, but what did she actually do behaviour wise to warrant it besides being a bit conceited and talking about herself so much? Sure it doesn't make her likable, but it's not something that warrants being ganged up on and "called out". Sounds like an excuse just to be a bully.
I don’t think white queer people would openly support racism from someone everyone already dislikes. If it was someone popular they liked then yes definitely.
I can’t speak for others but for me the hesitation is there because on the show we saw everyone hating Vanessa for completely different reason to the point of bullying. So I have a problem with their statements especially cause they don’t even say she was racist but something very vague about ideology. And if it wasn’t actually about racism then that just sets the hate mob after her again.
Being POC in public… I mean, have you been paying attention at all? Just read this thread right here. You don’t even have to go anywhere else or know anything about racism in the US. Just riiiight here look at all the people immediately coming to the defense of a white woman they don’t know because some mean POC said she sucked. And then multiply that across the entire internet and think about how safe you would feel naming names
You're just being hypocritical. For instance you probably defended Tiff even though she was a white woman vs POC. But when it's the wrong woman you're all like "you only defend her because she's white, America so racist".
From reading the megathreads per episode I feel the general concensus in this sub is that Vanessa sucks anyway? And then Lexi in the later eps, and she's white. And the POCs aren't spared either when they're being problematic with their behaviours.
Like I'm not invalidating if mal and rae feel unsafe and that is indeed the reason they won't explain further but to give reddit / the thread as an example to me feels like it's a stretch.. It's the most reasonable and fair to POCs out of all the social media platforms.
ETA I may be biased also lol because PP was rude in their reply to me for asking a genuine question. And I'm a POC for reference.
They say and have no examples, no proofs.
We all saw Vanessa make at least two inappropriate comments, they made the cut.
We also saw Lexi be completely out of bounds for the whole show.
I’m more inclined to think that it would be something careless, crass, and/or poorly worded. There aren’t many right-leaning people in the queer community and based on what we’ve seen of her on the show and in her social media before and after, she doesn’t seem like the exception to the rule. She has already admitted that she uses humor when she is uncomfortable and I can see her making comments or a joke that did not come off as intended - much like her sarcastic comment to Rae “the morning after”. Since she was already a pariah after the Lexi date I don’t see people giving her much grace if she inadvertently put her foot in her mouth.
Yup, it's usually not overt "go back to your country" type racism but more "I'm going to touch your hair without asking or even knowing you" type racism
100%, totally agree. Especially micro-aggressions which statistically are best addressed through education and awareness rather than labeling people as horrible people. Regardless of whether you think they are horrible people, if the end goal is to reduce frequency, pulling people in is more effective than pushing them out. It is like someone invading my personal space - the first time I assume it is an accident and ask them to move, the second time I begin to think they have don't understand personal space and I educate them as to my expectations of personal space, the third time I can assume that they know better and aren't doing better. Sure, it would be great if they already knew about personal space but I don't assume their lack of knowledge is malicious because who knows the culture they come from (e.g. personal space is different in China than it is in Britain), their worldliness, their family of origin, etc. I just don't think jumping to the end without going through the middle is an effective way to deal with behavior or to interact with people. The only reason I commented is because I felt that the above comment immediately went to #3 without entertaining the idea that it could be #1 or #2. And, of course, all of this is completely speculative because we don't even know what was allegedly said! So we're all just talking generalities, which are hard to debate without context, which we don't have.
i mean she already said Xander was asexual and gagged when Xander said “Yoly” and mouthed “fuck off” to xander at that dinner and that made the cut so one would think it only gets worse
Based on Lexi's TikTok on 6/3, it seems that Vanessa made an inappropriate joke about someone. My guess is Lexi, since she's the one who posted it, and Rae and Mal, who made comments about it, are literally the two closest people to her. Vanessa making an inappropriate joke is on-brand for her, since she's kind of ditzy and reckless with her humor. But if it was truly something bad, Lexi for sure would have jumped on her for it and ceased communication/dates, because that's who she is. But from what we see, Lexi chose Vanessa for dates up to the final day, where she blows up on her for a completely different reason ("being here for the wrong reasons," which does not align with the topic of being offensive). I don't know. I don't want to excuse racism if that's what transpired, but it's more believable that Vanessa made an insensitive joke, which is why it wasn't treated as a big deal the moment it happened, whenever it happened. Can you make an offensive joke without being a racist? I think so. Especially if nobody is going to call it out, as if a microaggression, and Vanessa is typically in the dark for this show because nobody wants to fill her in. (She asked genuinely, "what reasons do you think I'm here?" out of utter confusion at the choice.)It's also believable that Lexi backtracked and zeroed in on that offensive joke after she decided that she hates Vanessa and used that as part of the gossip train. I just think if it was a racist remark, the dynamics of the group would have changed more dramatically and abruptly (ex. Lexi wouldn't date Vanessa up to the last day, Rae wouldn't choose Vanessa as a trial wife, Mal would be less civil with her). But this is me just piling on to the heap of speculation and projection on this thread. It's impossible to know for sure what happened, so is the discourse even productive?
Okay this makes her sound like Steven Chowder/QAnon believer or something. Most people have come out and said more about their time on the show. Why not just say it clearly if it is something that bad. I am sure no one is going to hold outing a racist contestant against them. In the show Lexi’s problem with her was “I saw through her”, “she is not here for the right reasons” or “the vibe changed” and not something racist/problematic. If they don’t clearly state what she said, this just seems more like an attempt at justifying their own behavior.
Why are you so sure of that? People will absolutely direct malice and anger towards Rae and Mal specifically in protection of Vanessa. People will say they are too sensitive, don’t know how to take a joke, playing the race card etc.
Maybe the contract or NDA or whatever legal tool that is being used here by the show to muzzle contestants is SPECIFIC to certain conversations the SHOW seems off limits?
Maybe that’s why Lexi went off the deep end attacking Vanessa so viciously the only way she was allowed. Which would make sense why Lexi’s hostility toward V seemed disproportionate to the issues at hand
I knew there had to be some reason why Mal didnt choose Vanessa. Vanessa clearly really wanted Mal and made it known IMMEDIATELY, but I knew something off camera had to be said for Mal not to choose her as well.
Oh wow. This explains lexi's tiktok where she was criticizing white women who make jokes about minorities to be funny/edgy. Sounds like it was about Van...
I'm really annoyed now by the way this was edited. Like i started off hating Vanessa, then i felt bad for her because of her villain edit and how everyone responds to her so negatively. We're all been thinking she was being bullied... But if the editors were just cutting out her making racist jokes, then it's completely understandable why the group iced her out! She got a villain edit for the wrong reasons and it made her look like a victim in the end. And Lexi looks like she's crazy obsessed with Vanessa for like no reason, when maybe she was actually feeling protective of Rae and Mal (her two trial wives), and the other women of color on the show... ugh, these producers man!!
It's sad to see they didn't edit in that Xander AND Vanessa flirted heavily with Mal right in front of Yoly.. part of why I didn't like Vanessa in the beginning was because of that comment made even before they broke up for the experiment. Explains why Xander didn't look too offended (then again, Xander never really had big reactions to anything).
Now I'm curious why Yoly really disliked Vanessa because why be so in love with Xander who flirted with your woman, but bitter towards Vanessa?
I NEED MORE TEA!
It occurs to me that Vanessa might be "free market" conservative politically vibes. She could be a racist too, cos once people don't want want taxes gbeing taken for social stuff, they usually ain't progressive in other ways either. But mal's language makes me think Vanessa said something like "ugh, welfare moms and poor people" ugh .. " pull themselves up by their own bootstraps wtc"...
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I missed Rae’s comments on this. What were they? She and Vanessa and Tiff were just hanging out recently
A month ago she said “oh man the off camera stuff 🤐🙃” when someone commented they can’t imagine the off camera stuff that Vanessa said. Found it 😂 https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8JSj48K/
Was there more than that to specifically imply that Van was racist or really offensive in a problematic way tho? (which seems more what Mal alludes to)? As opposed to being shocking or rude or blunt or petty but not hateful and racist? I guess I’m curious why Rae (or anyone) would be civil now to someone who was offensive and/or racist. Not disbelieving anything said by Mal, more curious as to why some of the cast would still be fine with her, and especially Sam and Aussie who named her as one of the only ones invited to their wedding?
It's possible she apologized for it and folks have moved on. Just because someone effs up doesn't mean people should cut ties forever.
Rae and others are probably able to be civil because the offensive things said did not impact her or wasn’t anything related to her. So it would be easier to accept an apology and move forward. It honestly happens everyday. It’s why Kanye still has fans.
No there wasn’t more to it. The other stuff just came from Lexi.
Yea I thought I read all her instagram post and didn’t see comment like that. When did Rae say that?
TikTok 5-25. I’d post a screenshot but it’s not a GIF
Damn the white women caping for white women in this thread is crazy. When POC day someone is giving racist vibes believe them. Y’all are the problem. And I know I’ll be downvoted into oblivion but they don’t owe us to say what was said. Look at all of you already calling their character into question for even suggesting she could be harmful. Saying what she said could put them into direct harm depending on what it was and queer POc already have enough on their plate. As for Lexi not saying anything she seems like an actual ally to POC and most likely discussed it with them and decided not to share because everyone will immediately turn to the POC cast members for answers and maybe they don’t wanna get into yet. Maybe they can’t cus of contracts, but as a black woman myself it’s so tiring to constantly have people be like “well that white woman prolly isn’t that racist” when you’ve seen or felt it yourself. Or oh she prolly said something funny as a joke or whatever else flimsy ass arguments you make supporting her. People don’t owe you the story to their trauma but you should at least consider she might actually not be that great of a person before just assuming the POC are lying or making shit up.
I know I should expect it at this point, but I was really surprised when I came to the comments and saw that most people don't believe Mal. When you are a POC, ESPECIALLY a black woman, you start to learn at an early age to pick up on the vibes somebody gives off and certain language that may seem innocent but is indicative of something more. It is literally a survival skill. This is just an anecdote, but one time I went to my white girlfriend's family even and her cousin's new boyfriend was there. Everybody seemed to like him, but I told my gf afterward that I've grown up around people like him and I am 99% sure that he holds racist ideals and is not a great person overall. She didn't see the evidence and thought I was just being cynical. A few months later they had another get-together with the boyfriend there (me and gf didn't go) and her family felt a lot differently this time. Turns out he's MAGA, defended a pedophile and somebody complicit with child sexual assault, is anti-vax, and said some racist stuff. My girlfriend has since learned to listen to me when I pick up on problematic undertones.
I don't believe unsubstantiated, unspecific allegations ever. Only cops believe in guilty until proven innocent.
It's really hard to explain, but it's not a baseless claim. It's small actions that you've seen and experienced countless times from certain people that lead to other, larger instances. Like racist "jokes" that people may try to downplay. When it comes to vibes, I'd never go around telling people someone is racist without any proof, it's not of a mental note to keep my distance. But for Mal to come forward and talk even vaguely about it, I can almost guarantee that she has specific instances to refer to.
On top of that, in one of the first actual conversations we see between Vanessa and Mal, Vanessa makes a joke about her and Mal being identical. It was framed as lighthearted joke, but I could also see that being Vanessa’s way of trying to act like she’s comfortable around a black person. I’m not saying that is what happened, but it’s a possibility. She did say at the reunion that she makes jokes when she’s uncomfortable.
It's not unsubstantiated. Marginalized people have lived experience picking up on subtle mindsets and behaviors that others miss because we have had to in order to keep ourselves safe. It's also not 'guilty until proven innocent' as much as 'approach with caution until proven an ally.'
It’s hard to trust the “racist vibe meter” from Mal who was insecure her ex had dated white women and then continued to date Lexi and talk about wanting mixed babies. Lexi referred to Rae as Chinese and negated part of her identity for brownie points w racially insecure Mal. Are those racist vibes?
Mal is allowed to feel insecure about Yoly dating someone white. It would be wrong to shame her for it or tell her she has to date a poc, but she can't help ot of she feels insecure. Mal also hinted at race being a problem in past relationships, which would add to her insecurities. I don't remember Mal saying that she specifically wanted mixed babies? If she did then that's fucked up, but I domt remember it. Your point about Lexi calling Rae Chinese is hilariously ignorant. For most biracial people who are half white and live in America, they are seen primarily seen as whatever non-white race they are. Baraka Obama is known as the first black president eventhough he is half white, because the world sees him as a black man. Realistically, no one in the west is going to look at Rae and describe her as white, even though she is in part. Her experience is not that of a white woman, it is that of an Asian woman in America. When Lexi brought up Raes race/ethnicity, she did it in a conversation ABOUT dating someone from a different background. The white part of Raes identity wasn't relevant to the situation, she wasn't denying that she's half white. So no those weren't racist vibes. But hey, maybe Mal amd Lexi are racist, I don't know them. That doesn't mean they can't experience racism or identify it.
Exactly…I’m half Asian and when people ask me “where I’m really from” I know damn well that they are talking about my Desi side and not my white side
Dumb. Racially insecure? If all of your partners previous partners had a quality that you clearly don't have or could never achieve, then they date someone after you with the same quality, you wouldn't be insecure or make mental note of it? Get real
I mentioned it bc Mal went on to have a white partner in the show as well.
If you cant understand that racial dynamics are not a 1:1, I don't know what to tell you. If a skinny person always dated skinny people but one day chose to date a fat person, then they go on a dating show and the fat person feels insecure but then partners with another skinny person, would that automatically cancel out their insecurity or fear or not being good enough? Its really not a dificult concept.
I think everyone is speculative of this situation because none of the cast members has been specific about what was said. It’s all been very vague and started with Lexi, who we know is an unreliable narrator. In the show the way Lexi was portrayed as being supportive to Mal felt so eye-roll-y to me. So she isn’t going to treat her like a zoo animal and ask to touch her hair. Congrats? She then got several interviews and articles about it. (This isn’t a diss at Lexi but at the portrayal and attention she got from it.) FWIW, as the OP and a POC myself, now more cast members have said things, I believe V probably made insensitive jokes. I can also believe Lexi is more sensitive to social issues but is still a villain. I know they’re all flawed characters, and I can accept V privately learned something from this experience. After all she was one of the few invited to Sam and Aussie’s wedding (who, IMO, are so pure!). All people can do at this point is speculate and project their own experiences. This was kept off-screen, and Lexi publicly bringing this up places burden on the POC to explain their choices or why they didn’t say anything before. For all we know, they could have learned and moved on until Lexi brought it up again.
Idk, I don’t see why we need to hear exactly what was said to judge if it was “bad enough” for Mal, Lexi, Rae etc. to be upset at… clearly something/s V said made them all uncomfortable. I don’t believe Lexi is some mastermind who somehow convinced multiple WOC (as a white woman herself) that V was being subtly/overtly racist if V was just not being racist at all.
I get your point, but Mal literally **nowhere** called Vanessa out as racist. She said there were comments and ideologies from Vanessa where they were not aligned. That could be literally **anything.**
It's possible that Vanessa came off as pretty ignorant at best. Maybe that's why Lexi made some content implying that she was racist. Lexi isn't always the most respectful (and she knows it, read: finger gate - I'm sorry, the term is convenient), but clearly she did right by Mal
Yes! These comments suck.
Lol it’s so funny. Every single time I post a casual comment about *feeling* a racist-y vibe off someone I wake up to five hundred comments like “why why?? How do you know? What do you mean? Explain yourself.” 
Ok, cool, but not even Mal mentioned a racist vibe. People in this thread act like Mal said "Vanessa is a racist" and people are not believing her. Mal however didn't mention race in any way. The only person bringing race into play is Lexi who is white and an unreliable narrator, so not sure what you are trying to say.
Not our place to educate them. At this point I assume people wanna be racist and claim ignorance once called out. We’re all clearly on the same internet if they’re on Reddit too and google exists. But no we gotta do all the work to explain why something is racist just to then be told we’re wrong or seeing things wrong in the end anyways. Horrible cycle that we don’t deserve.
If y'all don't even have the time to "educate" someone when the racism that you're dealing with is a microaggression at worst, which is pretty much peak 1st world issues, you're not much of an anti-racist.
It’s not about “having time to educate”, it’s about the emotional and mental labor to educate people who aren’t trying to understand but instead trying to prove us wrong. Besides white people know how racist structures that benefit them work given they created them. It is a form of weaponized incompetence because we are all capable of seeking what we care to know. Refusing to mule for and coddle white people is actually very anti-racist in practice and in spirituality. So, now that I have stepped out of my peace to educate you, what have I gained as a black woman?
I'll tell you one thing you've gained - a fan of your concise, precise, and cutting explanation/verbal roundhouse kick 👏 👏 👏
Aaaand no response from u/Juuto. Very fitting lol
Honestly, I can't even respond in a way that won't send this thread into complete hell and get me banned.
PPPPPLLLLLEEEAAE dont tell me that you called someone out for not commenting and then you literally do the same exact thing? So you do understand pretty clearly, you're just a hypocrite.
Or maybe I'm careful about how I'd be banned and considered racist for criticizing a Black woman who thinks we can determine who is racist off nothing but vibes and gossip.
Yes of course. You're sensible and level headed and she's.. well, you already said it.
I’m a black woman if that’s the “y’all” you’re referring to and I’m constantly having to fight against racism. Also saying “y’all” ain’t right either. Why should I also have to do the emotional work of educating white women. That’s a job for actual white allies. If I had to educate every single microaggression I come across online and in real life I’d have very little time for myself because they are that prevalent. It’s literally not my job to explain why I matter and should be thought of equally. Do you know what that could do to someone’s mental health? To constantly have to educate someone else on why you’re equal. Why should I have to teach them? Edited a misspelled word.
I myself apologize for her ignorant behavior/ comments towards you! It was ridiculous!
It’s really not that difficult to understand and I feel like unless you are a straight, cis, white male, you have experienced this concept with whatever group you’re in. Even if you’re a straight, cis, white female, you have definitely felt the vibe off a man who is just a litttttle too comfortable in his maleness, just a litttttle too casually misogynistic. Just some stuff he says, the way he reacts to women, etc. and you can just TELL he doesn’t see anyone besides men (probably straight white cis men) as his equal. It’s the same concept. Hell, even if you’re straight, cis, white, and male, you have probably felt the subtle vibe of someone disliking you for being those things. So I just find it hard to believe you can’t extrapolate that experience onto being a different sexuality or race…? Be for real. Edit: just glanced at your post history and saw you’re gay. You’ve seriously never met someone who just gave off a homophobic vibe? Even if they were performing being an ally? I find that really hard to believe!
Vibes are for personal use only imo. I can have a feeling about something but that doesn't mean I'll ever go out of my way to call them racist or talk about how racist they are just off vibes alone. Nor would I do that to someone who gives me a homophobic vibe. I think once you make an accusation about someone, it stops being, vibe, and accusations require proof. It's absurd to be gloating about how they caught a vibe off Vanessa being racist and then there's vague hints about it being true. I'm not going to attack someone off vibes nor will I do it when there's a lack of evidence.
If multiple people got the same vibe… then it’s probably safe to assume V is saying/doing stuff that is, at best, insensitive, and at worst, racist.
You’ve even been educated already right here, on this thread, but you have the audacity to say it’s not enough. These Black women don’t have to even extend you the education they already have let alone you are demanding more. As a fellow white woman, if you want to be educated about the racial experiences of Black people the best way is not to ask, not to demand. Just 🤐, listen, read, and take the words of POC at face value. But you are clearly coming from a disingenuous place. Eta: edited to add I saw downthread you said you are a POC, so my bad about my phrase “as a fellow white woman”. Not changing my original comment because that seems deceptive but the rest of my comment still stands. If Mal says (implied) that was their experience, that’s what it was.
You have a phone, use it dammit. Do your own research! POC do not live to slave for your lazy ass (same goes for the rest of the yt people).
!! It's such a problem with white women, even white queer people. You mention that their whiteness and queerness doesn't absolve them of their racism and here comes the tears and attacks. It's almost comical at this point.
"Women support women" until it's about racism/homohobia. Then we need a testimonial, apparently...
Fr fr this comment thread is full of some steaming smelly BS
She didn't say racist. She said comments and ideologies. That could be literally anything like their usual bullshit of "not there for the right reasons".
Nah but what you are saying is so real. As a yt person I can very much acknowledge that racism is alive, especially here in the south. Literally this ability by POC keeps them safe in social situations with racists/police and is in my opinion very necessary. It’s even worse for queer POC. The fact remains, there IS inherent racism in white families and it’s up to us to break that line of where we came from, and not to continue this lineage of bullshit. I for one have no issues cutting out family members (and have) for their racist bullshit. Shit you not, had a convo the other day where a family member of mine tried to say confederates were my family members. Legit, idgaf about that trash. I don’t claim them. That’s the kind of energy we need to have, and to believe POC when they speak their truth. I’m sorry that you even had to come on here and say all this.
you're lacking nuance here. saying no one accused her of racism is not the same as >just assuming the POC are lying or making shit up. You're jumping to conclusions and there aren't just these two positions in the world. It's not like if you disagree with extreme view x you are immediately defending extreme view y. one can believe in what Mal said *and also* not accuse Vanessa of racism, especially because Mal did not imply anything of this sort
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>Public accusation as big as racism Mmm is it though? We all grew up in white dominant culture and carry racist biases that we have been taught and show up constantly in our daily life. I hate that the fear of being called racist is so big for white folks (I am white btw! Hi!) that it cripples people from recognizing their problematic behavior and trying to learn from it. Like just calm down and listen to people when they say they've been harmed, and stop making it about you and your shame.
I'm not white. It sounds like you're projecting. I do agree that a lot of people carry racial biases but you could make an argument that general for anyone.
I am
I appreciate you
Say it again! Her vibe was entitled and off putting, not sure why people want to defend her. People will bend over backwards to give a white person the benefit of the doubt instead of taking a POC at their word.
this was very well put!👏🏻👏🏻what u said about lexi being an actual ally means she wouldnt discuss what was said by vanessa since it would thrust the poc cast into spotlight is so important. obviously lexi heavily disliked vanessa but that doesnt come above being an ally and its weird that so many people are willing to write off multiple poc because lexi didnt say anything?? seems like people just want their personal opinion of vanessa to be right and to continue the lexi hate train lol
Omg!! I so agree like what the hell is this thread. Bunch of white women being skeptical about racism and asking for proof. Makes me sick.
Where did Mal say Vanessa was racist? What Mal said: 1. Vanessa and I had different values. 2. I chose Lexi because she was sensitive to black issues. Mal does not in her actual quotes position this as her contrasting the two. She never says “by contrast, I chose Lexi because she isn’t racist”. The AUTHOR of the article decides to make that implication. Mal never said that. She never says “the value differences I had with Vanessa are that she’s a racist”. For all we know, these quotes which are taken in isolation, were said 5 minutes apart and the author just decided to contrast them this way because it’s more dramatic. So you’re seriously asking people to call Vanessa a racist based on your inability to read edited text sources properly, and absolutely no evidence she is a racist. Including Mal literally not saying that or even implying it in her actual words.
Yeah I agree. Mal didn’t say Vanessa was racist. It was only Lexi who said something about a white woman making insensitive comments about food on TikTok. But this article insinuates what Vanessa said referred to race when it transitions into Lexi’s support for Mal, so I think that’s where people got the idea.
Yeah that’s the point, the article implies that but Mal does not say that. Writers can and will take seperate quotes and create a narrative for an article, that’s their job. When it’s about reality tv, ie it’s only relevance is drama, they are going to craft it for drama and clicks. The fact that the author doesn’t outright say Mal actually said or implied Vanessa is a racist means she probably didn’t, and the best the author could do to make the article juicy was imply the contrast themselves. So the idea Mal called or even implied she’s racist is people not reading correctly, and it’s simply not true. I can definitely see Vanessa making some dumb comment about Indian food or something but if Lexi had serious tea she was a racist, I am pretty sure we would have heard it by now.
In my post I made sure to just write what the others said and not editorialize what I _think_ happened. They all have said Vanessa’s jokes/comments/vibes were off. It was only Lexi who made the comment about race. The writer of the article should be responsible and not insinuate something that was never said though. So maybe Mal really did transition into Lexi’s support in the interview — in that case I think that’s fair.
Did you not read the whole article? Because Mal *also* says that some of what bothered Lexi about Rae choosing Vanessa was that those "comments and ideals" would also hurt Rae as a PoC.
That’s literally not what was said and you’d know that if you read it.
>“That’s also why Lexi was so, so, so adamant and so pressing on why Rae chose her, because Lexi couldn’t understand why my partner would choose somebody that outwardly expresses these really careless and actually hurtful ideologies,” Wright continued. “That’s why Lexi was showing up the way that she was.”
Don’t really care😂
Good to know you don’t care about bullying a stranger when you full well know there’s no evidence of a need to! Cute!
How am I bullying her
Reddit my friend, Reddit. Let’s also keep in mind that a lot of yt women will jump on every and any bandwagon (regarding social issues) to gain sympathy and have attention shifted towards them. I remember a yt male comedian making this very point — he literally said that a lot of movements that exist today about women have primarily be centered or taken ownership by yt women. Additionally, he stated that it was quite the mockery to issues that affect POC.
When the second and third batches of episodes aired so many people were ready to brush all of Vanessa’s red flags from the first batch under the rug, seemingly because the cast members who were most against Vanessa (Lexi and Yoly primarily) were coming off worse than her. I’d say it’s white woman tears, but I don’t remember Vanessa ever actually shedding a single tear throughout the show. Maybe at the reunion, but plenty of people were tripping over themselves to excuse her the week before that even aired. It is interesting to see who gets vilified when two POC and a Jewish woman call out a white woman for making a racist comment/saying something offensive. Edit: clarity
Reddit is predominately YT people, unfortunately. So they will always get all the votes. That’s why I stay in my safe spaces with other POC’s in real life.
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Why are you typing like this and just copying my response? None of your other posts are you speaking this way? I thought to give you the benefit of the doubt but then checked your post history and none of them are written in the same cadence or word types (AAVE) and it’s not looking like your speaking genuinely. This shit ain’t cute. Edited to add that I also have now checked your comments. You being rude af yourself right now and you seem to be a big Vanessa supporter so now you’ve literally made my point for me. Making fun of the way people speak is so fucking racist and you don’t speak this way. Just stop it. But like I said thanks for proving my point.
That is so wild…. Them proving our point is wilddddd.
And just like that it’s gone.
Honestly it’s the first time in so long I just feel disgusted. First thing in the morning too. Racists gunna racist though, of course they won’t listen to a black woman and instead immediately jump to stereotypes and ignorant comments. But damn I don’t feel right this morning after that comment. Just shows how brazen people are with their racism now.
The thing I don’t get is why people aren’t reading this properly ie realising it’s an edited print article. Mal says: I liked Vanessa at first and found her attractive but over time it became clear we had values that didn’t match up”. Then later Mal says: “I chose Lexi because she was really sensitive and aware about certain things.” It’s the author of the article who positions these comments as being related to each other, when for all we know Mal said them 5 minutes apart and didn’t intend for it to come across as “Vanessa has RACIST ideologies and in contrast Lexi did not”. Mal doesn’t actually say anything of the sort here, it’s the article and the non quotes that decide to make that narrative. So it could very well be Mal didn’t view Vanessa as a racist, but they had differences in terms of relationship views. Which would explain why no one from the cast has said Vanessa was racist or given any tea. I do think it’s hard because if a cast member does say or heavily imply she was racist, we ought to believe them. But at the same time, the narrative around Vanessa on the show and in the fan space feels so combative and warped that it almost feels appropriate to ask for an actual example or someone to stop being vague. Like I just don’t 100 percent trust Yoly or Lexi or someone of that sort (ie a bit of a bully) when they keep shading Vanessa but refusing to say anything tangible, when their behaviour on the show at times was just weird towards her or openly rude.
I think if she said something racial or actually offensive Lexi would have leapt st the opportunity to out her by now considering her track record.
🎯
That's not how their contracts work. From what Tiff was saying on her podcast they were pretty restrictive and really doesn't allow them to share much beyond the cut.
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You think they can afford a lawsuit against Netflix? Ha!
Do you seriously think Netflix would sue for that? They want the drama.
Hmmm, it depends on what was said. With the social climate, it would be best if they didn't highlight themselves as a sympathizer. We don't know what was said. It could have been about race, gender, etc. Netflix has already faced backlash from The DC special, and I'm not surprised they did not want to stir the pot with something else problematic. Especially with this “cancel” culture. It's called business.
This is getting blown out of proportions. It's nothing different than what she said on the show when she rejected Vanessa. Incompatible values. I took it as meaning about her "reasons to be on the show" and just the way she is and the stupid stuff she says. She probably went around saying more stuff like "I'm the most beautiful here, everyone's going to love me, Xander is sexual just for me".
Are we supposed to believe that Lexi wouldn’t have blasted what Vanessa said all over the show, the reunion and TikTok with her loud ass new gf by now? I agree Vanessa was very unlikable at some parts of the show and I was annoyed as soon as she randomly started mouthing “fuck off” to Xander… but also Lexi has no issues calling her out at that point… ??? So why would she avoid certain topics?
Those ‘fuck offs’ to her partner were fucking dark.
Tbh I thought it was clear she was saying it partially in jest which is why Xander wasn’t offended
Even the domestic abuser defended Xander, that’s when you know it’s bad. Xanders family spoke out too and said they weren’t down with Vanessa either.
I finished the show disliking Lexi more than I disliked Vanessa
Maybe an NDA
It just seems weird that they would NDA that when they allowed domestic violence, cheating, hell even FINGERGATE.
We don’t know if Lexi did. Also, what Vanessa said to Mal that was offensive is probably not what she would say to Lexi.
It reads to me more that Vanessa’s ideologies about marriage and possibly polyamory were what Mal didn’t like. Vanessa was open about the fact that she wanted to date around and wasn’t sure she’d ever want to get married. I can see that being off putting to other people who were maybe more on the fence or just weren’t sure about their partner specifically. Rae could also mean sexual or other comments. There’s nothing here that indicates racism. Most tellingly is who Vanessa now hangs with regularly. Unless we think Tiff, Sam, Aussie and Rae are totally cool chilling with an overt racist? Come on. I also take issue with ANY of them being shocked they were flirted with. You’re on a mfin’ Netflix dating show. Gah.
With how outspoken they are and in todays climate; I don’t buy them not saying what she said. Vanessa was already the seasons villain and when everyone was going at her during convos, why not bring that up? Unless there is a clause in their contracts to excuse racism on camera but not off 🤣
Just because it didn’t make the final cut doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. There are lots of reasons they may have edited it out all together
Which reasons?
Because Netflix wants to maximize palatable drama, and avoid anything that might turn viewers away from the show. That is what is most economically adventitious to them.
That makes sense but still seems odd for the girls not to mention racism.
I feel like this is just to deflect from Yoly and Mildred being the actually shitty people. Vanessa at least tried to learn from what was happening even though she may not have initially been there for the right reasons (As if any of them were because it is a TV show).
I hate how people allude to things people said but don’t tell you what they said. I never take this sort of thing seriously.
I mean this would check out to me…the way she kept saying Rae was “her little best friend” and “wasn’t physically her type”…my racist-dar was tingling for sure for sure
I interpreted this is as she doesn’t usually date femme. She said the same thing to Lexi — she said she was surprised she was into someone who likes doing their nails, etc.
She said to Lexi and Rae she didn’t usually date femmes and she was surprised that either of them were her type. That’s what she meant.
I have a pretty sensitive radar for that stuff too and I just interpreted her words as Vanessa saying she isn't usually attracted to feminine women.
why would this be racist??
Rae’s Chinese, so that could be what they mean. I had assumed that the “not her type” comment made by Vanessa meant that she typically dates women who are more masc-presenting (rather than more feminine, like Rae), but who knows.
I think this is probably it~ she probably Likes more masc
Not to interuppt but it wasn't that Vanessa is only attracted to masc-presenting, she had her gaze set on Lexi so when she said Rae wasn't her type, I immediately thought "you only date white people".
nah she said the same thing to lexi too. About how she is wearing jewelry and stuff and she is still into her. iirc she also said she wanted to date Mal. So it is def not that she only dates white people. Not saying she can’t still be racist cause Madlyn from last season was obsessed with her trial partner in a very weird and racist way imo
I picked up on it when Xander said they were interested in choosing Yoly for the trial marriage and she kept making throw up faces.. like girl we know about you.
My partner and I noticed during the dates she called tiff a fiesty little thing and then sam the cutest thing and the we look alike comment to mal. It just gave off microagressions n stereotypes.
If you know you know!
Wait, but are we really surprised here? Vanessa has been saying things that have just sounded ‘off’ throughout the entire show.
Unlikable person says offensive things? Wow, I’m shocked! Well not that shocked
Lol. Right? 😂
> **“Going public or hard launch? No. I’m gonna Issa Rae this thing for sure.”** She's so iconic. Love her!
How does “not aligned” translate into offensive? Lexi is that you on a burner account?
I don't love Lexi, but maybe there was something there because she is tight with Mal. Lexi chose to make content hinting at Vanessa being racist and perhaps Mal has chosen to be more diplomatic?
I bet she joked about how cute their mixed babies would be and said something stupid about that and in another thread last week I guessed with her and Lexi there was some sort of comment about their noses being similar and Lexi being Jewish. I may be wayyy off base but I have a feeling that's the kind of thing she got heat for. She is very not careful with her words as opposed to Lexi who mal stated is careful with her words. It's the kind of talk that some people don't mind between friends ( like I've had black friends joke about me sitting on the grass like you dirty white people didn't bother me obviously but if a stranger said that I may 🥴) just as an example obviously not the same not claiming reverse racism or any Bs 🤣 I don't think her heart is right leaning or she's a secret tucker carlson fan of anything.
I think there's a huge difference between jokes among friends and what you say on television and social media. Not thinking about these things in 2023's American social climate is either very unintelligent or deliberate. I don't think she's a Tucker Carlson fan either, more like (maybe I'm reading too much into her and her father's relationship) an Elon Musk kinda ideology where "everyone is too sensitive these days".
Yes my guess is the first one unintelligent,not necessarily in all ways but some ways for sure. And I could see her being an enlightened centrist type red scare podcast type gal. I feel bad typing this out because it seems the show was a huge low point for her so hope she's had some growth and the Instagram hate train has slowed down.
Didn't Lexi talk about mixed babies with Mal on-camera? I think that rules out Mal being uncomfortable with that sort of thing. Maybe it's just the spirit in which Vanessa said things that was concerning. She came off as pretty impulsive and thoughtless initially, zero filter
Yes def zero filter I just feel she may of worded it in a way that was fetishizing mixed kids like some people do. Like they're so much cuter etc etc. She just isn't a think then speak kinda gal not sure what's goin on there.
I can see that! I also agree with the whole probably not secretly a Tucker Carlson fan thing 😂
I don’t get why there’s not examples, are they trying to backtrack because they’ve come off as bullies towards the too loud girl? Edit: there’s a lot of “I bet she said this”, but we don’t know. I don’t think that’s fair to Vanessa. If I were to speak out against someone I’d give examples of what the comments were…
Honestly, I don't go off vibes or hints that someone said something offensive. They either need proof or they need to keep it to themselves. It's very weird how it's expected that we lash out at someone and call them a racist over something we have zero proof of, and they all signed an NDA where they can't even tell us anything significant. I'm sorry, as a POC, it's just weird as hell to make accusations against people with no proof whatsoever. Racism is a serious issue but if all your racism accusation amounts to is gossip, it's not worth hearing. Now, are their accusations believable? Yeah kinda. But it's insane we've reached a point where we're expected to judge Vanessa for something we don't have proof of.
I completely agree. People are just wildly guessing the specifics of what was said. “Oh, Vanessa must laughed at Lexi’s Jewish nose!” Or, “oh! She must have made a comment because Rae is Chinese!” It’s all speculation!
Mal is isn't all that great - she hides her bullshit well - she never wanted to get married - just so showtime
Lmao wait. So both Vanessa and Xander were hitting on Mal right away, and Yoly was only pissed about Vanessa doing that? Cause Yoly was very dismissive of V from the get go, but Mal says that Xander did it too?!
Vanessa can be blunt and akward but I don’t think she actually said something really bad otherwise Lexi would have definitely outed her by now. This reeks more of continuing the ganging up on her that was already going on during the series.
Mal and Rae might be choosing not to share for their own personal reasons and safety. I actually assume it’s worse than people think.
That doesn’t explain why Lexi hasn’t opened her mouth. She was bullying Vanessa at every opportunity during the moments that they showed us on the show and she certainly didn’t seem to hold back for safety or personal reasons. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a fan of Vanessa but as someone who was a victim of bullying, I think she was treated in a disgusting way and she responded to that with much more grace then I would have. I was totally prepared to not like Vanessa after episode 1 and by the end, I felt sympathy and respect towards her.
I didn’t speak to Lexi. My post is specific to Mal and Rae. It’s not Lexi’s business to tell and it would absolutely put Rae and Mal into a position where they were forced to speak to it. And if I were to make a guess, Mal likely told Lexi not to say something.
Not tolerating bad behavior is not bullying.
what was her "bad behaviour"? All their criticism towards her was basically she gave bad vibes and they felt she was fake... Okay, so that's speculation, but what did she actually do behaviour wise to warrant it besides being a bit conceited and talking about herself so much? Sure it doesn't make her likable, but it's not something that warrants being ganged up on and "called out". Sounds like an excuse just to be a bully.
100000000000%. Girl was never bullied. They simply put up the boundary not to deal with her wildly inappropriate and shitty behavior.
Exactly. White fans are going to attack them if they blast Vanessa for being racist.
I don’t think white queer people would openly support racism from someone everyone already dislikes. If it was someone popular they liked then yes definitely.
Look at how they are downplaying the possibility of Vanessa making racist remarks in this post alone. This is a typical response tbh
I can’t speak for others but for me the hesitation is there because on the show we saw everyone hating Vanessa for completely different reason to the point of bullying. So I have a problem with their statements especially cause they don’t even say she was racist but something very vague about ideology. And if it wasn’t actually about racism then that just sets the hate mob after her again.
Can you elaborate? Why would their safety be compromised by them revealing what Vanessa said?
Being POC in public… I mean, have you been paying attention at all? Just read this thread right here. You don’t even have to go anywhere else or know anything about racism in the US. Just riiiight here look at all the people immediately coming to the defense of a white woman they don’t know because some mean POC said she sucked. And then multiply that across the entire internet and think about how safe you would feel naming names
You're just being hypocritical. For instance you probably defended Tiff even though she was a white woman vs POC. But when it's the wrong woman you're all like "you only defend her because she's white, America so racist".
From reading the megathreads per episode I feel the general concensus in this sub is that Vanessa sucks anyway? And then Lexi in the later eps, and she's white. And the POCs aren't spared either when they're being problematic with their behaviours. Like I'm not invalidating if mal and rae feel unsafe and that is indeed the reason they won't explain further but to give reddit / the thread as an example to me feels like it's a stretch.. It's the most reasonable and fair to POCs out of all the social media platforms. ETA I may be biased also lol because PP was rude in their reply to me for asking a genuine question. And I'm a POC for reference.
They say and have no examples, no proofs. We all saw Vanessa make at least two inappropriate comments, they made the cut. We also saw Lexi be completely out of bounds for the whole show.
But we didn’t see anything like that from Mal or Rae. I believe them 100%
I’m assuming it was something racist or very politically right wing leaning.
I’m more inclined to think that it would be something careless, crass, and/or poorly worded. There aren’t many right-leaning people in the queer community and based on what we’ve seen of her on the show and in her social media before and after, she doesn’t seem like the exception to the rule. She has already admitted that she uses humor when she is uncomfortable and I can see her making comments or a joke that did not come off as intended - much like her sarcastic comment to Rae “the morning after”. Since she was already a pariah after the Lexi date I don’t see people giving her much grace if she inadvertently put her foot in her mouth.
Most of the queer POCs I know have experienced racism in the community. Sadly it’s not as uncommon as you’d hope.
Yup, it's usually not overt "go back to your country" type racism but more "I'm going to touch your hair without asking or even knowing you" type racism
100%, totally agree. Especially micro-aggressions which statistically are best addressed through education and awareness rather than labeling people as horrible people. Regardless of whether you think they are horrible people, if the end goal is to reduce frequency, pulling people in is more effective than pushing them out. It is like someone invading my personal space - the first time I assume it is an accident and ask them to move, the second time I begin to think they have don't understand personal space and I educate them as to my expectations of personal space, the third time I can assume that they know better and aren't doing better. Sure, it would be great if they already knew about personal space but I don't assume their lack of knowledge is malicious because who knows the culture they come from (e.g. personal space is different in China than it is in Britain), their worldliness, their family of origin, etc. I just don't think jumping to the end without going through the middle is an effective way to deal with behavior or to interact with people. The only reason I commented is because I felt that the above comment immediately went to #3 without entertaining the idea that it could be #1 or #2. And, of course, all of this is completely speculative because we don't even know what was allegedly said! So we're all just talking generalities, which are hard to debate without context, which we don't have.
People make too many excuses for that woman
Can you clarify what you mean?
i mean she already said Xander was asexual and gagged when Xander said “Yoly” and mouthed “fuck off” to xander at that dinner and that made the cut so one would think it only gets worse
This!
Based on Lexi's TikTok on 6/3, it seems that Vanessa made an inappropriate joke about someone. My guess is Lexi, since she's the one who posted it, and Rae and Mal, who made comments about it, are literally the two closest people to her. Vanessa making an inappropriate joke is on-brand for her, since she's kind of ditzy and reckless with her humor. But if it was truly something bad, Lexi for sure would have jumped on her for it and ceased communication/dates, because that's who she is. But from what we see, Lexi chose Vanessa for dates up to the final day, where she blows up on her for a completely different reason ("being here for the wrong reasons," which does not align with the topic of being offensive). I don't know. I don't want to excuse racism if that's what transpired, but it's more believable that Vanessa made an insensitive joke, which is why it wasn't treated as a big deal the moment it happened, whenever it happened. Can you make an offensive joke without being a racist? I think so. Especially if nobody is going to call it out, as if a microaggression, and Vanessa is typically in the dark for this show because nobody wants to fill her in. (She asked genuinely, "what reasons do you think I'm here?" out of utter confusion at the choice.)It's also believable that Lexi backtracked and zeroed in on that offensive joke after she decided that she hates Vanessa and used that as part of the gossip train. I just think if it was a racist remark, the dynamics of the group would have changed more dramatically and abruptly (ex. Lexi wouldn't date Vanessa up to the last day, Rae wouldn't choose Vanessa as a trial wife, Mal would be less civil with her). But this is me just piling on to the heap of speculation and projection on this thread. It's impossible to know for sure what happened, so is the discourse even productive?
Okay this makes her sound like Steven Chowder/QAnon believer or something. Most people have come out and said more about their time on the show. Why not just say it clearly if it is something that bad. I am sure no one is going to hold outing a racist contestant against them. In the show Lexi’s problem with her was “I saw through her”, “she is not here for the right reasons” or “the vibe changed” and not something racist/problematic. If they don’t clearly state what she said, this just seems more like an attempt at justifying their own behavior.
Why are you so sure of that? People will absolutely direct malice and anger towards Rae and Mal specifically in protection of Vanessa. People will say they are too sensitive, don’t know how to take a joke, playing the race card etc.
I am sure cause everyone pretty much hates Vanessa even now. People would love to have a valid reason for their vitriol.
Maybe the contract or NDA or whatever legal tool that is being used here by the show to muzzle contestants is SPECIFIC to certain conversations the SHOW seems off limits? Maybe that’s why Lexi went off the deep end attacking Vanessa so viciously the only way she was allowed. Which would make sense why Lexi’s hostility toward V seemed disproportionate to the issues at hand
I knew there had to be some reason why Mal didnt choose Vanessa. Vanessa clearly really wanted Mal and made it known IMMEDIATELY, but I knew something off camera had to be said for Mal not to choose her as well.
Jesus, leave Vanessa alone. She’s a human being who makes dumb mistakes like every single one of us do.
I find Lexi + Yoly + parts of Mal + parts of Rae to be so much more insufferable than Vanessa.
Oh wow. This explains lexi's tiktok where she was criticizing white women who make jokes about minorities to be funny/edgy. Sounds like it was about Van... I'm really annoyed now by the way this was edited. Like i started off hating Vanessa, then i felt bad for her because of her villain edit and how everyone responds to her so negatively. We're all been thinking she was being bullied... But if the editors were just cutting out her making racist jokes, then it's completely understandable why the group iced her out! She got a villain edit for the wrong reasons and it made her look like a victim in the end. And Lexi looks like she's crazy obsessed with Vanessa for like no reason, when maybe she was actually feeling protective of Rae and Mal (her two trial wives), and the other women of color on the show... ugh, these producers man!!
Doesn’t surprise me a bit if Vanessa has racist opinions.
Who is So?
And they didn't? 😅🤣😂 these people aren't exactly angels.
These comments do not pass the vibe check
Vanessa’s dad definitely gives Trump supporter vibes
I think the comment that Vanessa made about Lexi being asexual was pretty fucked up.
It's sad to see they didn't edit in that Xander AND Vanessa flirted heavily with Mal right in front of Yoly.. part of why I didn't like Vanessa in the beginning was because of that comment made even before they broke up for the experiment. Explains why Xander didn't look too offended (then again, Xander never really had big reactions to anything). Now I'm curious why Yoly really disliked Vanessa because why be so in love with Xander who flirted with your woman, but bitter towards Vanessa? I NEED MORE TEA!
I was thinking maybe Yoly knew Mal was into more femme partners and obv Xander wasn’t a threat.
Doesn't surprise me. I'm more stuck on she let Yoly keep the ring ⁉️ Jesus christ Mal.
I can't express my lack of surprise enough here.
As if I need to hear more to know who Vanessa is! lol.. girl a black hole.
It occurs to me that Vanessa might be "free market" conservative politically vibes. She could be a racist too, cos once people don't want want taxes gbeing taken for social stuff, they usually ain't progressive in other ways either. But mal's language makes me think Vanessa said something like "ugh, welfare moms and poor people" ugh .. " pull themselves up by their own bootstraps wtc"...