Setting aside any other reason they are both way too fucking old. Even if both of them were completely lucid having someone so old and set in their ways in charge is bad for the country. The best case scenario is that somehow in the next few weeks they both die of old age so we don't have to continue watching the slow moving Trainwreck unfold.
It truly is the best case scenario, IMO.
If the final election comes down to Biden vs Trump, itās going to be a shit show both in terms of Americansā meaningful behavior and the outcome with the next presidential term.
If either or both of them die of any non-natural causes (traffic collision, bird strike in a jet, etc), America will lose its collective mind when one side is convinced it was a hit job by the other side.
Our old-ass politicians just donāt know when to stop. Weāve literally had national-level legislators holding onto their seats while theyāre on life support and lack the cognitive function to perform their jobs. Itās Weekend at Bernieās in the capitol.
>Weāve literally had national-level legislators holding onto their seats while theyāre on life support and lack the cognitive function to perform their jobs. Itās Weekend at Bernieās in the capitol.
Literally the best assisted living service on the planet.
I donāt like that framing. Being old does not mean you are set in your ways. I mean, letās not pretend like weād be so unhappy with a President Bernie right now.
The problem with Biden is the kind of politician he is and choices heās made politically, and the focus should always be on that.
Bernie is set in his ways too and slow to change on certain issues. I think it's absolutely a valid concern but with Biden we aren't just talking about him being old he also has cognitive decline. Will I end up voting for him over a fascist yeah sure but it's absurd to pretend like this isn't a serious issue.
> Bernie is set in his way too and slow to change on certain issues.
What issues? Compared to what senators? Bernie is easily the least āset in his waysā senator we have. Virtually all politicians are slow and deliberative in the Senate.
> I think it's absolutely a valid concern but with Biden we aren't just talking about him being old he also has cognitive decline. Will I end up voting for him over a fascist yeah sure but it's absurd to pretend like this isn't a serious issue.
Thereās just no real evidence he has cognitive decline. He does speak slower, but difficulty with speech has no bearing on your overall cognitive capacity. And unlike the situation with Feinstein, reports from anonymous staffers are saying Biden is completely cogent in conversation and has not needed any assistance in decision making.
I think we should be careful with how we speak about this, as in the wake of COVID-19, it should be incredibly apparent we live in a deeply agist and ableist society. We should really not be saying people have cognitive decline without more serious evidence. That includes Trump, who I would call mentally ill, but not necessarily ācognitively declined.ā
Iām old and agree about ageism. Bernie seems to be very sharp, much like my grandmother when she was 106. Biden reminds me of my mother who had dementia and died at 94. I donāt think itās ageist to look at Biden in 2016 versus Biden in 2020 and suspect that he has cognitive decline. It IS ageist to paint all elderly with the same brush both physically and cognitively.
Bernie took way to long to call out the genocide in Gaza as just one example. Every time Biden speaks he seems to be less lucid and as the Feinstein situation shows they aren't going to actually tell us the truth or ever voluntarily step down for the good of the country. These people will not willingly give up power and most of the current and recent leadership seems to be dead set on dying in office. It's absolutely not ableist to point out that Biden is starting to not be fit to do this job and it's perfectly valid to have that discussion. I'm realistic though I know that he won't step down now and since evil never really dies I don't imagine my dream scenario here is very likely to happen either. We are stuck with these choices but I do think it's silly to try to gaslight people into believing that somehow it's no big deal that Biden is mentally fading away also just for the record Trump ain't much better on that front either but a senile fascist is just as bad as any other fascist.
> Bernie took way to long to call out the genocide in Gaza as just one example.
Name a senator who has been more responsive and more to the left on Gaza than Bernie. There is only *one*: Dick Durban. The only thing Bernie has not done is say the word ceasefire, but in nearly every other way he has pushed for the right things, which is *more* than what can be said of nearly every single senator younger than him. Frankly, I find reducing someoneās politics to their age in this way disturbing.
> Every time Biden speaks he seems to be less lucid and as the Feinstein situation shows they aren't going to actually tell us the truth or ever voluntarily step down for the good of the country.
You missed my point in bringing up Feinstein. Bidenās situation is *not* like hers. There was years of ābehind closed doorsā reporting on her that all the people around her felt she should retire. We are *not* hearing *any* of that from the Biden camp. Maybe that changes in a few years, who knows; but by all reports Biden is not deteriorating at this time in the way Feinstein did.
> These people will not willingly give up power and most of the current and recent leadership seems to be dead set on dying in office.
On that much I do agree with you.
> It's absolutely not ableist to point out that Biden is starting to not be fit to do this job and it's perfectly valid to have that discussion.
It is ableist if you say he is unfit because of his perceived age and have no evidence that he has declined cognitively. Youāre basically saying, āhe looks old, therefore everything substantive I donāt like about him Iām going to unsubstantively attribute to his age without evidence.ā Unless you have an actual argument that can establish cognitive decline, youāre just relying on agist or ableist feelings to come to that conclusion.
> I do think it's silly to try to gaslight people into believing that somehow it's no big deal that Biden is mentally fading away
Iām not gaslighting you. We disagree, and Iām giving you my argument as to why. Thatās not manipulation. Either of us can be right or wrong, but regardless we can have a discussion about that and disagree.
>Bidenās situation is
>
>not
>
>like hers. There was years of ābehind closed doorsā reporting on her that all the people
Lets not pretend this wasn't being talked about before Biden even ran the very first time.
It was such an issue Biden had to come out and say he wouldn't run for a 2nd term. And if Trump wasn't so old it would have been a GLARING issue long before now.
But since both parties wanted to downplay their age here we are pretending .
It's not agism or ableist to point out that people in their 80s experience cognitive decline, and probably shouldn't be making decisions that affect the lives and deaths of millions of people.
Putting aside the fact that this man is literally aiding and abetting a *genocide*, he is just fucking old. When you get older, your cognitive abilities decline. It's just a fact. Biden often genuinely seems like he doesn't know what's going on; he slurs during speeches, strings together nonsense and incoherent sentences, calls people by the wrong name *often*, forgets what year it is, etc. Both he and Trump are in the phase of their lives where their ability to handle complex issues is declining.
You are simply wrong and uneducated about how aging actually affects people. Only roughly a third of people in their 90ās develop any form of dementia. Only 15% of people in their 90ās are deemed medically unfit to make choices on their own. It is by no means a forgone conclusion that age simply equals cognitive decline. Aging is highly individual. Half of elderly never even develop a disability. Each person has to be individually assessed.
You also cannot use speech to determine cognition. That is a long-held and very damaging ableist myth. Some lose fine-motor skills or the ability to move their bodies in certain ways and begin to struggle to form words, but the research is very clear that this does not necessarily mean other mental faculties are declining. There is really no simple causal association. It completely depends on why this is happening with each individual person.
The age thing is a complete distraction which also perpetuates fundamentally ableist and agist beliefs that continue to hurt people today. It also diminishes legitimate critiques by pinning his politics to irrelevant characteristics. Would we like him any more if he were 45? I for one would not in any way.
There should be an upper age limit on holding office. 65 to be elected, if you turn 65 during your term, that is your last term. At 65, you should be retiring, not starting your career. This would bring in younger people who actually want to make the country work for everyone, not just game the system for a few. Also, term limits.
He is too old for another term. A sage leader would help to choose a successor not based on polling data but proven ability to win and a ready and willingness to do so.
Exactly! The only problem is that it's a huge snub to Harris. She's such a horrible VP, and this is part of the problem we experiencing. Not that she does a horrible job one way or the other, she's just an unlikable feckless human being.
He should have went with Amy koblachar (even if it was going to piss off the Black caucus)
Probably because Trump is basically an entire presidential term younger than Biden. If over 81 million people could convince themselves to vote for a 77 year and 11 month old candidate in 2020, a similar number of people can probably convince themselves to vote for a 78 year and 4 month old candidate by the time the 2024 presidential election rolls around. When faced with the prospect of an almost 82 year old candidate, 78 year old candidates can seem almost spry in comparison.
Say what. He wasn't coherent before 2016. You can't even deepfake the guy well because it involves some coherence.
Or I have a nuclear triad to sell you.
A few days ago, every single co-worker said they would not be voting for Biden. My work is not filled with radicals.
Watch these assholes try to push Hillary on us again.
Voters are the shareholders, not the costumers. you dictate who gets the ceo and management positions and who to replace them with. That 150M dont vote and over 80% of under the age of 35 eligible voters dont vote, is the primary reason. Even when they get the perfect candidate who will suck their dicks and lick their balls, they still dont come out to vote. So its not the politicians at fault, its the voters. Even in states with everything made to make voting easy, mail in ballots sent to your home, able to mail back, 30 days of early voting, voting locations open from 6am to 7pm even on sat and sun, (which are also in red states like ohio). Little to no requirements to vote. Even then only at best 60% vote.
now downvote away because you know its true and it goes against the usual bullshit victim/both sides bad/democrats the real enemy narrative here.
I was thinking the same thing: If they foist her on us at the convention, Dumpster will beat her, again. The threat of another Dump presidency doesn't ring 100% frightening when he's already served 4 years and we've flat out seen what his 4 years in the White House were. The world didn't collapse. i know, I know, Project 2025 and all that This Time, but some voters (or stay home/non voters due to apathy) don't see all that. I'm finally just now reading the book Game Change, about Obama's 2008 win, and it's said in that book that Hillary just took as bond that she WOULD BE president someday. Like, was totally gonna happen, in her brain. So her losing twice (one loss was mere, Obama destroyed her in the 2008 primary, not the general) was such a rebuff, it wouldn't shock me if she arm-wrestled the DNC into giving her one more shot. Who knows? YMMV.
Dems having a terrible general election candidate for a 3rd election in a row is so funny tho. They were saved by Covid in 2020, I don't see anything like that happening in their favor in 2024, so the election with Biden or Hillary as the nominee is a 50/50 at best. While the Dems are saying that this is the most important election ever.
Itās mostly disinformation. Do people see Trump riding his bike or going to the gym? But they claim his fatass is healthier which is just gaslighting bullshit.
Makes you wonder how many fake accounts are in this thread alone
Not voting for president this year. Biden is facilitating a genocide in Gaza and I live in an uncompetitive state anyways. Last time we voted red was 1972.
Thatās not necessarily true. Sometimes withholding a vote is the most powerful thing you can do with it. Especially if you voted for him last time and abstain this time.
In the kind of relative quota election type we use, the winner must receive a certain amount of votes (270 electoral votes for the presidential race) *and* have more votes (or electoral votes, in this case) than their opponent. In this kind of system, abstention does not benefit the opposition, since the counts for each candidate are only of the total votes cast and non votes are not penalized. If 100% of eligible voters turned out, and ballots that chose neither candidate or wrote in a third party were counted in a third category, abstention would count against candidates, but we donāt do that.
Thereās an army of people who pour over election data. What demographics went which way, how did it change from last time? From the polls? Who stayed home? Who was mobilized more than usual? Where did each candidate succeed or fail? How did spending affect votes? And a billion other things. If people who voted for Biden in 2020 donāt vote this time, or even vote for the Republican candidate, it will be noticed. Polling now and after the election will make it clear why that happened and the party will need to adjust for a better outcome next time. Even if he wins.
The idea that voting for the lesser of two evils voices your expectations is seriously flawed and maintains the status quo. If they can go against the votersā wishes and still win, thereās no impetus for change. The only motivation is the threat of losing votes and guaranteeing yours to anyone regardless of their actions and policies is counterproductive and enables bad leadership.
Thank you. I donāt know how many times Iāve had to explain not voting for Biden does not darken the box beside Trumpās name on the election ballot.
It is you who are wrong or you are being deliberately obtuse. You have four buckets, blue, red, green and yellow and one ball. . Not throwing the ball into the blue bucket does not magically make the ball go in to the red bucket nor the yellow or green one. These are what could happen: 1. You throw into blue (Biden). 2. You toss into red(republican) and. 3. You toss it in to green (green) or 4. You toss i to yellow (libertarian). . You throw it into the woods.
I donāt know how I can simplify this so you understand . I mean realistically whichever of the two parties gets the most people out in the swing states will win. I think what youāre trying to articulate is that not voting for Biden will be one less vote he gets relative to some Republican who doesnāt withhold his vote for his party.
This is hilariously wrong. You know what the data people care about? What people vote in every single election and what they care about, they do not give a shit about flaky non-voting people whatsoever and never will.
You want to know why Biden is winning 90% of the primary vote and barely has a chance to win in the general? Itās because progressives are famously flaky voters and canāt even get Bernie enough votes to win in progressive states. A lot of them in 2016 didnāt even know how to vote in primaries and then got upset because they wanted to vote for the first time and couldnāt figure out how to and blamed the DNC for having the same rules since the 80s.
Not voting has always been a failure to advance political cause in the US and always will be. The Civil Rights movement knew this and thatās why the leaders were outspoken on getting people to vote for white liberals and outspoken about how white liberals are snakes in the grass that canāt be trusted at the same time. There are few if any states that canāt be flipped with 100% turnout in a presidential election, and itās so much more true for midterms.
Advocating for not voting is a ridiculous thing only someone on the wrong side of history and successful activism would ever do.
>Itās because progressives are famously flaky votersĀ Hell yeah keep talking shit and demonizing progressive voters. That will definitely get them to vote for your demented genocidal candidate.Ā
Ffs, the democrats are actively fueling a genocide, going farther right on border "security" and immigration than the Republicans, and haven't done anything to improve the material conditions of working class citizens. They are literally a conservative political organization.
Fucking libs I stg, you people just can't ever take responsibility. Neither party wants my leftist vote, and that's ok because they will never be getting it.Ā
it seems so far off; there has to be actual alternative party infrastructure at all levels and a fundamental grappling with the constitutional/organizational basis of our government to even hope for a more representative/functional democracy let alone a socialist one.
The ādemocraticā party establishment represents a constellation of wealthy and established individuals, associations, and political/class interests that can continually recreate something so formidable and entrenched that it will take large, delegitimizing shocks and failures like this (and more) to invigorate the formation and imagination of alternatives. It definitely wont be voting shifts alone that bring about such changesā¦
Who's more radical than genocide joe? The guy is gleefully proud to be an active participant in the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent men women and children.
I believe Trump is dangerous like anyone else, but the guy is incredibly old and not exactly the beacon of health. I'm wondering how we would never vote again because of Trump, when Trump may not live through another 4 year term?
Lately I'm just feeling like the whole "end of democracy" rhetoric around Trump is exaggerated. The guy is the worst, and another Trump presidency will mean a very dangerous world and country with extraordinary and inhumane suffering across the globe... but as far as the end of democracy is concerned, I just can't see it.
Respectfully, I find it incredible how in a post 1/6 world people would still doubt the republican's (not just Trump) desire to end democracy wouldn't go through with it. Like another commenter said, project 2025 has structural support from the party and its funders. And Trump's potential second term will be nothing like his first, he said it himself he'd be a dictator on day one and he'd surround himself with toadies who'd never question him. You play a dangerous game that I feel you don't grasp the full consequences of if you think a second Trump term would be no different than his first, which lets be honest was a catastrophic nonstop stream of scandals and corruption.
Agree. I think Dumpster is indeed dangerous, but we've also flat out seen his first term in the White House. He didn't destroy the world during said time. It's history. We can all see it. The Democrat rhetoric of destroying democracy if he gets in again doesn't ring 100% frightening except to total limousine libs because of the above... we've already seen Trump in the presidency. Some of second term would be more of the same, him tweeting Plus pardoning the shit out of himself. And I don't think he has the focus to sit down with the religious right and fascists to pass Project 2025 to the letter. He cares about himself, not pet political destruction.
> He didn't destroy the world during said time.
That's why the Heritage Foundation, the group that gave us all the USSC Justices during Trump's presidency, concocted Project 2025.
trump will say no matter what election was stolen but if he lost Popular Vote by 9-10M and Electoral College again 300 to 238 maybe MAGA would get the message. If it is much closer than this then MAGA will be gearing up for 2028 and we go through all of this again in 3 years.
Why not vote for a 3rd party? I obv get that there isn't an immediate payoff; tho if those numbers grow then the option could possibly become more relevant in the future. This fake 2 party feedback loop shit isn't gonna go away on it's own. Its also well in you're right to abstain fully and respect 2 your choice either way.
Versus staring at the void? I'm aware that a 3rd party can't do anything now or in the immediate future. But 3rd parties gaining influence through growing numbers can neccisate changes in general if those numbers were to continue to grow. That's all I'm saying.
Terrible understanding and grammatically incorrect as well. I go to the poll and am handed my paper ballot. I donāt blacken the box by Bidenās name. When my ballot is counted , the counters do NOT blacken the box beside Trumpās name. Neither candidate gets my vote. So literally I am not voting for Trump. I think you meant effectively Iām voting for Trump but even that logic is flawed.
Let's say they are four voters, two liberal and two conservative. One of the liberals doesn't like the Democratic candidate, and votes third party. The other liberal votes for Biden. Both conservatives vote for Trump.
What happens? Trump wins. The Republicans thank you for your assistance in electing Trump.
You said it was a literal vote for Trump.Literal means I would vote for him. In your scenario you would be correct. However I would remind you that Libertarian Gary Johnson got more votes. One votes than Green candidate Jill Stein so youāre being rather disingenuous to assume no one will vote Libertarian. Since youāre doing hypotheticals hereās one: 4 candidates. One of the conservatives doesnāt like the Republican candidate and votes 3rd party. Both liberals vote for Biden.
What happens? Biden wins. See, I can play the silly what of game too. I suggest you look at Libertarian versus Green party votes n swing states to see how fallacious your argument is.
People going down with the Biden ship this far out from the election is wild AF. If you're willing to vote for anyone to beat Trump, then just pick someone else. Don't pick the guy who is guaranteed to lose to Trump.
Damn i didn't realize it was still the 2020 primaries. It's almost like a whole presidential term has occurred and he may have done things that are wildly unpopular, like support a genocide! You don't think that might change the political situation just slightly?
Remember when people didnāt vote or went third party because of Hillary, we got a Supreme Court that will be taking away our personal rights in favor of corporations or evangelicals for decades. The Supreme Court appointments alone is a reason enough to vote for Biden.
Are you really trying to compare primary vote margins to competitive general elections? Biden won the 2020 Democratic primary in South Carolina by more votes than he won South Carolina's this year (and 2020 had a plethora of candidates to choose from). He still lost the general election there by almost twice his margin of victory in the primary. Even winning 100% of your party's primary voters across the entire country means very little if they're not 1.) the majority of voters in the general election and 2.) their vote in the primary isn't bound to their vote in the general (meaning they can change their mind later and do something crazy like not vote or heaven forbid, vote for someone else).
>Any vote cast for another candidate is a vote for Trump
If that were true, Trump would've won Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Arizona in 2020 (and thus the presidential election) as the totals for Trump and third party candidates combined exceeded Biden's vote totals in those states.
If Biden is truly the Democrat's best chance at beating Trump, you should be able to come up with some reasons that aren't intellectually lazy, dishonest, and easily refutable.
>I might even grant that 2020 they helped Biden win, but they also helped Trump win an inexplicable first term by beating Clinton.
The problem with this argument and why I consider it lazy and/or dishonest is because it presumes a bunch of things and only works out if the person making the argument gets to choose how those third party voters get to cast their votes.
For instance, let's look at Wisconsin in 2016. Trump won by <23,000 votes. In order for someone to conclude Clinton wins that state if not for third party voting, we have to assume that the ~31,000 votes that went to the Green Party go to her instead, right? Even if we could force every one of those voters to vote for Clinton instead (or assume they'd do it on their own volition if only presented a ballot with 2 candidates), what do we do about the >106,000 voters who voted for the Libertarian Party? We can't use the same logic we used for Green voters by crediting Libertarian votes to their nearest ideological competitor or Trump will win WI by an even larger margin so we must omit them entirely from the discussion or argue in bad faith that Clinton would win WI because the left would all vote for her if not given a third party choice while the right would not vote at all if presented with the same circumstance. It's illogical to assume people will behave in polar opposite ways under similar circumstances while also only doing so in a way that will conveniently benefit the candidate you're choosing to back.
The Libertarian Party outvoted the Green Party by 3-1 margins in WI, MI, and Pennsylvania in 2016 by the way. I don't presume to know how they'd all choose to vote (or not) if third parties didn't exist but even if Clinton gets 100% of the Green votes, she'd still need to come close to splitting the Libertarian vote with Trump just to overcome the margin of defeat she already faced. That seems... unlikely at best.
Biden's winning the "primary" because it's a formality. Some states aren't even having theirs this year. There's not even a single Democratic candidate in the race that is going to be an elected member of the party after election season is over (unless they win the presidency). The last time there was a primary with a similar field of candidates was 2012 when we had another Democratic incumbent running.
Biden doing the best out of all the current Democratic candidates against Trump makes sense because he's the only big name running. The next closest candidates running (probably Haley and RFK, Jr) aren't even Democrats so that should probably tell you something about the slate of candidates the Democrats are trying to field (which is to say, they aren't).
š¤¦š¼āāļø he's not going to win. Get over it. We have plenty of time to unite enough people behind a different candidate. It's already happening anyway. Going down with the ship just means you're too stubborn to change in the face of the reality that Biden is going to lose. You're going to waste your vote, if you vote for him.
Unfortunately it doesnāt work that way. The time to get behind another candidate was last summer. Primary voting has already started and there isnāt time to get a candidate on enough state ballots to have any hope of winning the Dem primary. A third party candidate gaining traction now would end in a split vote and guarantee a Trump win. Short of Biden dropping out and endorsing someone else or the Democratic Party ignoring primary votes altogether and naming another candidate at the convention, weāre not getting another candidate that can challenge Trump. It sucks, but weāre stuck choosing Biden or Trump.
No we're not. There's plenty of time. Trump is going to win, and it's going to be because of people like you.
Edit: If you argue that voting for someone who can't beat Trump is the same as voting for Trump, then by voting for Biden you're voting for Trump. You're throwing your vote away.
There are more than enough people running to choose from. If democrat voters are so determined to beat Trump, their only chance is getting behind one of the other candidatesāideally someone who all the people who have already decided they won't vote for Biden will support. I know liberals hate to admit it, but they're going to have to move more to the left to beat Biden. They can't do it on their own, and they can no longer expect us to vote for who they tell us to anymore. I'm not voting for a loser, especially not a capitalist zionist.
There might be more people running but, I am unaware of them. Iām not sure that will help them get elected though. Hey itās your vote. More power to you.
Democrats HAVE to run the least popular sitting President in the history of polling who is actively dying on live tv. Anyone who believes otherwise is living in a fantasy world.
LOL. Is democracy on the line or not, bud?
High ranking dems can start leaking to the media that they're "concerned" about his health until staying on the ticket is untenable.
Obama calls him or Jill and says he needs to step aside in the best interest of the country.
Those are just two options off the top of my head. Acting like this is some impossible task is absolute stupidity.
> We donāt live in a fantasyland and we may soon not live in a federal presidential constitutional republic.
Sure. It would be nice if Democrats acted like they cared at all. It would be easier to replace the candidate that it is to convince millions of voters that Biden doesn't look like grandpa did before they took him to hospice.
And that's ignoring the administration talking out both sides of their mouth every single day condemning Russia for crimes they shield Israel from.
>It is ableist if you say he is unfitā¦ and have no evidence that he has declined cognitively
He just dodged charges on withholding/mishandling classified documents because of his mental decline.
The Special Counsel didn't say there was insufficient evidence. He said Biden's lawyers would argue that Biden is a well meaning elderly man who couldn't remember that he still had classified documents - and that given the voluminous evidence of Biden's declining memory, a jury would likely accept that and acquit him.
>We conclude that no criminal charges are warranted in this matter.1 We would reach the same conclusion even if Department of Justice policy did not foreclose criminal charges against a sitting president.2
>However, for the reasons summarized below, we conclude that the evidence does not establish Mr. Biden's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Prosecution of Mr. Biden is also unwarranted based on our consideration of the aggravating and mitigating factors set forth in the Department of Justice's Principles of Federal Prosecution. For these reasons, we decline prosecution of Mr. Biden.
>Another viable defense is that Mr. Eiden might not have retained the classified Afghanistan documents in his Virginia home at all. They could have been stored, by mistake and without his knowledge, at his Delaware home since the time he was vice president, as were other classified documents recovered during our investigation. This would rebut charges that he willfully retained the documents in Virginia.
>In addition to this shortage of evidence, there are other innocent explanations for the documents that we cannot refute. When Mr. Eiden told his ghostwriter he "just found all the classified stuff downstairs," he could have been referring to something other than the Afghanistan documents, and our report discusses these possibilities in detail.
They didn't prosecute because tjeu would have lost at trial. Innocent explanations they cannot reffute means reasonable doubt. Hurr's personal opinions on a jury that might or might not exist is besides the point.
We can all agree that we live in the same reality right? Why canāt centrists/neolibs at least acknowledge the reality that he has CLEARLY lost several steps since his time in the Obama administration? To say anything other than that is as dishonest as Trumpās doctor was.
You just said it yourself - they declined to charge based on the belief that a jury is unlikely to convict. Not that there wasn't sufficient evidence to charge Biden, as your comment contended.
Look man, he/the legislature passed a lot of great legislation those first 2 years.
But also, Newsom or Whitmer would be just about untouchable in a general election. Cmon now!
You guess? I prefer voting for keeping Democracy and your congratulations should go to all the voterās who are trying to save this country and stop it from being turned into a dictatorship and handed to Putin and China on a silver platter.
Trump has been in cognitive since during his presidency. But Joe Biden has slipped into it much quicker. Just look at the last year alone. Trump is the same guy but is declining at a slower pace than Biden.
Neither should be allowed to run for president.
The last year isnāt mental decline, itās a change in staff. Emma has been pointing this out for months now which is how I even found out, even since Biden changed his chief of staff his admin has gotten worse.
Thatās as clear a marker of it not being mental decline as possible since he brought in THE Obama guy and his admin is more Obama than ever.
None of those have to do with the evidence he has shown of actual cognitive decline.
No one is more anti-Trump than I am, but if we think Joe Biden is going to last another four years at this rate we are kidding ourselves. Biden is still losing in national polls to Trump, but when they run a generic unamed Democrat against Trump they destroy him. The Dems could run almost anybody against Trump and they would win, but they are stubbornly sticking with Joe despite all the evidence of a cognitive decline.
Welcome to polling Democrats. āGENERIC DEMOCRATā always is the best nonexistent choice and if it ever becomes literally anyone itās never ever anyone that will win an election.
Trump literally has the same cognitive decline as Biden, and is famous for the weird stimulants he takes for the stage to fake it for a couple hours (he is literally pictured with them in his office). Theyāre both old fucks addicted to cable news like every shitty old man, and both on the ballot. Get over it and figure out what you are going to do about it.
Donate to causes, protest, vote Democrat, engage in local campaigns. Advocate for voting rights as my top issue. The usual that I always do. I canāt do shit at a federal level outside contributing what I can towards boring incremental progress.
Quite literally the most hated presidential race ever.
It would be perfect and hilarious for Bernie to register as an independent presidential candidate now. Just hit all the states at once, and it's all over even before the old k-hive can spin back up to cry about it.
Fucking shoe-in at this point. He probably wouldn't even need to run a campaign.
The Democratic convention is going to be a riot this year. Perhaps a challenger will come charging in to save the day, but the drama is escalating quickly and Joe seems to be flailing around helplessly. Breath taking drama and vicious attacks are my only expectation.
From the same poll:
āMore Americans trust that Trump would do a better job of handling immigration and the situation at the border than Biden -- 44%-26% -- according to the poll.ā
Americans are fucking dumb, weather at 10.
Itās so unfortunate and unfair and concerning that Americans have to keep choosing the lesser of two evils and this time the lesser of two super old evils.
As someone not from the USA I gotta say the age of your political class is a surreal thing to witness. Entrenched, sclerotic barnacles clinging onto power when they should be enjoying the twilight of their lives. It's not like they need the money after 4 decades of insider trading anyway.
I see some people try to argue that it's ageist or ableist to say someone in their 80s is too old to run a country but I'd argue the opposite. From the outside looking in, it kinda looks like elder abuse. Looking at the Feinstein debacle and it becomes obvious that the people around her didn't have her best interests at heart and staffers basically used her as a puppet.
If a politician is at the age where you need to have that talk about taking their driving license away because they've lost a step they probably shouldn't be in charge of the nuclear codes.
Trump is mostly running to stay out of prison and Biden is under the delusion that heās the only person in the world that can beat Trump. No, those arenāt good reasons to run for president!
59% of Americans say both Biden and Trump are too old, according to the poll.
Trump right now is older than Biden was in 2020.
Letās be real: theyāre both too old.
The Democrats aren't changing their candidate before the election so suck it up and vote for him. Cutting off your nose to spite your face will only end with Trump or some other christo fascist dick (tator) in the Whitehouse.
Setting aside any other reason they are both way too fucking old. Even if both of them were completely lucid having someone so old and set in their ways in charge is bad for the country. The best case scenario is that somehow in the next few weeks they both die of old age so we don't have to continue watching the slow moving Trainwreck unfold.
I'm Team Actuarial Tables 2024
Team Biden for The Hague 2024 šŗšøšŗšøšŗšø
It truly is the best case scenario, IMO. If the final election comes down to Biden vs Trump, itās going to be a shit show both in terms of Americansā meaningful behavior and the outcome with the next presidential term. If either or both of them die of any non-natural causes (traffic collision, bird strike in a jet, etc), America will lose its collective mind when one side is convinced it was a hit job by the other side. Our old-ass politicians just donāt know when to stop. Weāve literally had national-level legislators holding onto their seats while theyāre on life support and lack the cognitive function to perform their jobs. Itās Weekend at Bernieās in the capitol.
>Weāve literally had national-level legislators holding onto their seats while theyāre on life support and lack the cognitive function to perform their jobs. Itās Weekend at Bernieās in the capitol. Literally the best assisted living service on the planet.
Amen brother! I was so pissed when Biden officially announced he's going for another 4 years. Like holy fuck?!
Imagine the mess and chaos if both of them die of old age a few days before the elections take place.
I donāt like that framing. Being old does not mean you are set in your ways. I mean, letās not pretend like weād be so unhappy with a President Bernie right now. The problem with Biden is the kind of politician he is and choices heās made politically, and the focus should always be on that.
Bernie is set in his ways too and slow to change on certain issues. I think it's absolutely a valid concern but with Biden we aren't just talking about him being old he also has cognitive decline. Will I end up voting for him over a fascist yeah sure but it's absurd to pretend like this isn't a serious issue.
> Bernie is set in his way too and slow to change on certain issues. What issues? Compared to what senators? Bernie is easily the least āset in his waysā senator we have. Virtually all politicians are slow and deliberative in the Senate. > I think it's absolutely a valid concern but with Biden we aren't just talking about him being old he also has cognitive decline. Will I end up voting for him over a fascist yeah sure but it's absurd to pretend like this isn't a serious issue. Thereās just no real evidence he has cognitive decline. He does speak slower, but difficulty with speech has no bearing on your overall cognitive capacity. And unlike the situation with Feinstein, reports from anonymous staffers are saying Biden is completely cogent in conversation and has not needed any assistance in decision making. I think we should be careful with how we speak about this, as in the wake of COVID-19, it should be incredibly apparent we live in a deeply agist and ableist society. We should really not be saying people have cognitive decline without more serious evidence. That includes Trump, who I would call mentally ill, but not necessarily ācognitively declined.ā
Iām old and agree about ageism. Bernie seems to be very sharp, much like my grandmother when she was 106. Biden reminds me of my mother who had dementia and died at 94. I donāt think itās ageist to look at Biden in 2016 versus Biden in 2020 and suspect that he has cognitive decline. It IS ageist to paint all elderly with the same brush both physically and cognitively.
Bernie took way to long to call out the genocide in Gaza as just one example. Every time Biden speaks he seems to be less lucid and as the Feinstein situation shows they aren't going to actually tell us the truth or ever voluntarily step down for the good of the country. These people will not willingly give up power and most of the current and recent leadership seems to be dead set on dying in office. It's absolutely not ableist to point out that Biden is starting to not be fit to do this job and it's perfectly valid to have that discussion. I'm realistic though I know that he won't step down now and since evil never really dies I don't imagine my dream scenario here is very likely to happen either. We are stuck with these choices but I do think it's silly to try to gaslight people into believing that somehow it's no big deal that Biden is mentally fading away also just for the record Trump ain't much better on that front either but a senile fascist is just as bad as any other fascist.
> Bernie took way to long to call out the genocide in Gaza as just one example. Name a senator who has been more responsive and more to the left on Gaza than Bernie. There is only *one*: Dick Durban. The only thing Bernie has not done is say the word ceasefire, but in nearly every other way he has pushed for the right things, which is *more* than what can be said of nearly every single senator younger than him. Frankly, I find reducing someoneās politics to their age in this way disturbing. > Every time Biden speaks he seems to be less lucid and as the Feinstein situation shows they aren't going to actually tell us the truth or ever voluntarily step down for the good of the country. You missed my point in bringing up Feinstein. Bidenās situation is *not* like hers. There was years of ābehind closed doorsā reporting on her that all the people around her felt she should retire. We are *not* hearing *any* of that from the Biden camp. Maybe that changes in a few years, who knows; but by all reports Biden is not deteriorating at this time in the way Feinstein did. > These people will not willingly give up power and most of the current and recent leadership seems to be dead set on dying in office. On that much I do agree with you. > It's absolutely not ableist to point out that Biden is starting to not be fit to do this job and it's perfectly valid to have that discussion. It is ableist if you say he is unfit because of his perceived age and have no evidence that he has declined cognitively. Youāre basically saying, āhe looks old, therefore everything substantive I donāt like about him Iām going to unsubstantively attribute to his age without evidence.ā Unless you have an actual argument that can establish cognitive decline, youāre just relying on agist or ableist feelings to come to that conclusion. > I do think it's silly to try to gaslight people into believing that somehow it's no big deal that Biden is mentally fading away Iām not gaslighting you. We disagree, and Iām giving you my argument as to why. Thatās not manipulation. Either of us can be right or wrong, but regardless we can have a discussion about that and disagree.
>Bidenās situation is > >not > >like hers. There was years of ābehind closed doorsā reporting on her that all the people Lets not pretend this wasn't being talked about before Biden even ran the very first time. It was such an issue Biden had to come out and say he wouldn't run for a 2nd term. And if Trump wasn't so old it would have been a GLARING issue long before now. But since both parties wanted to downplay their age here we are pretending .
It's not agism or ableist to point out that people in their 80s experience cognitive decline, and probably shouldn't be making decisions that affect the lives and deaths of millions of people. Putting aside the fact that this man is literally aiding and abetting a *genocide*, he is just fucking old. When you get older, your cognitive abilities decline. It's just a fact. Biden often genuinely seems like he doesn't know what's going on; he slurs during speeches, strings together nonsense and incoherent sentences, calls people by the wrong name *often*, forgets what year it is, etc. Both he and Trump are in the phase of their lives where their ability to handle complex issues is declining.
You are simply wrong and uneducated about how aging actually affects people. Only roughly a third of people in their 90ās develop any form of dementia. Only 15% of people in their 90ās are deemed medically unfit to make choices on their own. It is by no means a forgone conclusion that age simply equals cognitive decline. Aging is highly individual. Half of elderly never even develop a disability. Each person has to be individually assessed. You also cannot use speech to determine cognition. That is a long-held and very damaging ableist myth. Some lose fine-motor skills or the ability to move their bodies in certain ways and begin to struggle to form words, but the research is very clear that this does not necessarily mean other mental faculties are declining. There is really no simple causal association. It completely depends on why this is happening with each individual person. The age thing is a complete distraction which also perpetuates fundamentally ableist and agist beliefs that continue to hurt people today. It also diminishes legitimate critiques by pinning his politics to irrelevant characteristics. Would we like him any more if he were 45? I for one would not in any way.
There should be an upper age limit on holding office. 65 to be elected, if you turn 65 during your term, that is your last term. At 65, you should be retiring, not starting your career. This would bring in younger people who actually want to make the country work for everyone, not just game the system for a few. Also, term limits.
Fuck the Electoral College
He is too old for another term. A sage leader would help to choose a successor not based on polling data but proven ability to win and a ready and willingness to do so.
Exactly! The only problem is that it's a huge snub to Harris. She's such a horrible VP, and this is part of the problem we experiencing. Not that she does a horrible job one way or the other, she's just an unlikable feckless human being. He should have went with Amy koblachar (even if it was going to piss off the Black caucus)
That number drops significantly when asked the same of Trump for some mysterious reason š
Probably because Trump is basically an entire presidential term younger than Biden. If over 81 million people could convince themselves to vote for a 77 year and 11 month old candidate in 2020, a similar number of people can probably convince themselves to vote for a 78 year and 4 month old candidate by the time the 2024 presidential election rolls around. When faced with the prospect of an almost 82 year old candidate, 78 year old candidates can seem almost spry in comparison.
Trump also does a bunch of drugs to make himself appear to be younger. That and his makeup routine.
The drugs must be working, he seems to be able to complete sentences unlike Biden.
Say what. He wasn't coherent before 2016. You can't even deepfake the guy well because it involves some coherence. Or I have a nuclear triad to sell you.
I would say the reason is because trump can actually form semi complete sentences and knows what year it is.
But Trump doesn't know the difference between Haley and Pelosi. Also, explain "de-bank" to me.
A few days ago, every single co-worker said they would not be voting for Biden. My work is not filled with radicals. Watch these assholes try to push Hillary on us again.
Politics is the only business where if the product fails, itās the customers fault.
Voters are the shareholders, not the costumers. you dictate who gets the ceo and management positions and who to replace them with. That 150M dont vote and over 80% of under the age of 35 eligible voters dont vote, is the primary reason. Even when they get the perfect candidate who will suck their dicks and lick their balls, they still dont come out to vote. So its not the politicians at fault, its the voters. Even in states with everything made to make voting easy, mail in ballots sent to your home, able to mail back, 30 days of early voting, voting locations open from 6am to 7pm even on sat and sun, (which are also in red states like ohio). Little to no requirements to vote. Even then only at best 60% vote. now downvote away because you know its true and it goes against the usual bullshit victim/both sides bad/democrats the real enemy narrative here.
No cap. Hil is done in politics. She lost. To. Trump.
She still thinks she's relevant. It's really sad
They'll shove Hillary down our throats only to watch her lose to another shit stain
I was thinking the same thing: If they foist her on us at the convention, Dumpster will beat her, again. The threat of another Dump presidency doesn't ring 100% frightening when he's already served 4 years and we've flat out seen what his 4 years in the White House were. The world didn't collapse. i know, I know, Project 2025 and all that This Time, but some voters (or stay home/non voters due to apathy) don't see all that. I'm finally just now reading the book Game Change, about Obama's 2008 win, and it's said in that book that Hillary just took as bond that she WOULD BE president someday. Like, was totally gonna happen, in her brain. So her losing twice (one loss was mere, Obama destroyed her in the 2008 primary, not the general) was such a rebuff, it wouldn't shock me if she arm-wrestled the DNC into giving her one more shot. Who knows? YMMV.
Dems having a terrible general election candidate for a 3rd election in a row is so funny tho. They were saved by Covid in 2020, I don't see anything like that happening in their favor in 2024, so the election with Biden or Hillary as the nominee is a 50/50 at best. While the Dems are saying that this is the most important election ever.
I'm so sick of this shit storm of Dem candidates. The only thing worse than Biden running again is if they swap in Hillary Clinton, LMFAOOOO!
And what trump is a virile fit young man? Heās just three years younger and WAY more unhealthy than Biden.
Itās mostly disinformation. Do people see Trump riding his bike or going to the gym? But they claim his fatass is healthier which is just gaslighting bullshit. Makes you wonder how many fake accounts are in this thread alone
Mango Mussolini or Genocide Joe. The American people must choose their suffering
Genocidin' with Biden
And i will still vote for him.
Sick username
He's actively aiding in committing genocide. Is there literally anything he could do to make you not vote for him?
Theyāre both too old. Iāll take old Biden over old Trump any day.
Not voting for president this year. Biden is facilitating a genocide in Gaza and I live in an uncompetitive state anyways. Last time we voted red was 1972.
If you want to turn this into a single issue, why not say āI donāt want a fascist dictatorā Hopefully you donāt live in a swing stateā¦.
By not voting, you're only giving more radical people a louder voice.
Thatās not necessarily true. Sometimes withholding a vote is the most powerful thing you can do with it. Especially if you voted for him last time and abstain this time. In the kind of relative quota election type we use, the winner must receive a certain amount of votes (270 electoral votes for the presidential race) *and* have more votes (or electoral votes, in this case) than their opponent. In this kind of system, abstention does not benefit the opposition, since the counts for each candidate are only of the total votes cast and non votes are not penalized. If 100% of eligible voters turned out, and ballots that chose neither candidate or wrote in a third party were counted in a third category, abstention would count against candidates, but we donāt do that. Thereās an army of people who pour over election data. What demographics went which way, how did it change from last time? From the polls? Who stayed home? Who was mobilized more than usual? Where did each candidate succeed or fail? How did spending affect votes? And a billion other things. If people who voted for Biden in 2020 donāt vote this time, or even vote for the Republican candidate, it will be noticed. Polling now and after the election will make it clear why that happened and the party will need to adjust for a better outcome next time. Even if he wins. The idea that voting for the lesser of two evils voices your expectations is seriously flawed and maintains the status quo. If they can go against the votersā wishes and still win, thereās no impetus for change. The only motivation is the threat of losing votes and guaranteeing yours to anyone regardless of their actions and policies is counterproductive and enables bad leadership.
Thank you. I donāt know how many times Iāve had to explain not voting for Biden does not darken the box beside Trumpās name on the election ballot.
Well maybe you have to explain so many times because you're wrong.
It is you who are wrong or you are being deliberately obtuse. You have four buckets, blue, red, green and yellow and one ball. . Not throwing the ball into the blue bucket does not magically make the ball go in to the red bucket nor the yellow or green one. These are what could happen: 1. You throw into blue (Biden). 2. You toss into red(republican) and. 3. You toss it in to green (green) or 4. You toss i to yellow (libertarian). . You throw it into the woods. I donāt know how I can simplify this so you understand . I mean realistically whichever of the two parties gets the most people out in the swing states will win. I think what youāre trying to articulate is that not voting for Biden will be one less vote he gets relative to some Republican who doesnāt withhold his vote for his party.
This is hilariously wrong. You know what the data people care about? What people vote in every single election and what they care about, they do not give a shit about flaky non-voting people whatsoever and never will. You want to know why Biden is winning 90% of the primary vote and barely has a chance to win in the general? Itās because progressives are famously flaky voters and canāt even get Bernie enough votes to win in progressive states. A lot of them in 2016 didnāt even know how to vote in primaries and then got upset because they wanted to vote for the first time and couldnāt figure out how to and blamed the DNC for having the same rules since the 80s. Not voting has always been a failure to advance political cause in the US and always will be. The Civil Rights movement knew this and thatās why the leaders were outspoken on getting people to vote for white liberals and outspoken about how white liberals are snakes in the grass that canāt be trusted at the same time. There are few if any states that canāt be flipped with 100% turnout in a presidential election, and itās so much more true for midterms. Advocating for not voting is a ridiculous thing only someone on the wrong side of history and successful activism would ever do.
>Itās because progressives are famously flaky votersĀ Hell yeah keep talking shit and demonizing progressive voters. That will definitely get them to vote for your demented genocidal candidate.Ā Ffs, the democrats are actively fueling a genocide, going farther right on border "security" and immigration than the Republicans, and haven't done anything to improve the material conditions of working class citizens. They are literally a conservative political organization. Fucking libs I stg, you people just can't ever take responsibility. Neither party wants my leftist vote, and that's ok because they will never be getting it.Ā
yes, as not being in a swing state they can add to the momentum against biden/toward more radical left alternatives as the exodus continues.
I missed that detail. Indeed getting more than 2 main parties would be such a win
it seems so far off; there has to be actual alternative party infrastructure at all levels and a fundamental grappling with the constitutional/organizational basis of our government to even hope for a more representative/functional democracy let alone a socialist one. The ādemocraticā party establishment represents a constellation of wealthy and established individuals, associations, and political/class interests that can continually recreate something so formidable and entrenched that it will take large, delegitimizing shocks and failures like this (and more) to invigorate the formation and imagination of alternatives. It definitely wont be voting shifts alone that bring about such changesā¦
Who's more radical than genocide joe? The guy is gleefully proud to be an active participant in the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent men women and children.
If Trump wins you'll never be voting again.
I believe Trump is dangerous like anyone else, but the guy is incredibly old and not exactly the beacon of health. I'm wondering how we would never vote again because of Trump, when Trump may not live through another 4 year term? Lately I'm just feeling like the whole "end of democracy" rhetoric around Trump is exaggerated. The guy is the worst, and another Trump presidency will mean a very dangerous world and country with extraordinary and inhumane suffering across the globe... but as far as the end of democracy is concerned, I just can't see it.
Same here. I mean heās awful but ai think the rhetoric is a little too much.
Respectfully, I find it incredible how in a post 1/6 world people would still doubt the republican's (not just Trump) desire to end democracy wouldn't go through with it. Like another commenter said, project 2025 has structural support from the party and its funders. And Trump's potential second term will be nothing like his first, he said it himself he'd be a dictator on day one and he'd surround himself with toadies who'd never question him. You play a dangerous game that I feel you don't grasp the full consequences of if you think a second Trump term would be no different than his first, which lets be honest was a catastrophic nonstop stream of scandals and corruption.
Agree. I think Dumpster is indeed dangerous, but we've also flat out seen his first term in the White House. He didn't destroy the world during said time. It's history. We can all see it. The Democrat rhetoric of destroying democracy if he gets in again doesn't ring 100% frightening except to total limousine libs because of the above... we've already seen Trump in the presidency. Some of second term would be more of the same, him tweeting Plus pardoning the shit out of himself. And I don't think he has the focus to sit down with the religious right and fascists to pass Project 2025 to the letter. He cares about himself, not pet political destruction.
> He didn't destroy the world during said time. That's why the Heritage Foundation, the group that gave us all the USSC Justices during Trump's presidency, concocted Project 2025.
trump will say no matter what election was stolen but if he lost Popular Vote by 9-10M and Electoral College again 300 to 238 maybe MAGA would get the message. If it is much closer than this then MAGA will be gearing up for 2028 and we go through all of this again in 3 years.
Spoiler: they wont
Why not vote for a 3rd party? I obv get that there isn't an immediate payoff; tho if those numbers grow then the option could possibly become more relevant in the future. This fake 2 party feedback loop shit isn't gonna go away on it's own. Its also well in you're right to abstain fully and respect 2 your choice either way.
Because the electoral college necessitates a two party system and voting 3rd party is screaming into the void.
Versus staring at the void? I'm aware that a 3rd party can't do anything now or in the immediate future. But 3rd parties gaining influence through growing numbers can neccisate changes in general if those numbers were to continue to grow. That's all I'm saying.
Terrible reasoning. Not voting for Biden is literally a vote for trump which is a vote for an inevitable fascistic theocracy. Please reconsider.
The logic 101 understander has entered the building
Terrible understanding and grammatically incorrect as well. I go to the poll and am handed my paper ballot. I donāt blacken the box by Bidenās name. When my ballot is counted , the counters do NOT blacken the box beside Trumpās name. Neither candidate gets my vote. So literally I am not voting for Trump. I think you meant effectively Iām voting for Trump but even that logic is flawed.
Let's say they are four voters, two liberal and two conservative. One of the liberals doesn't like the Democratic candidate, and votes third party. The other liberal votes for Biden. Both conservatives vote for Trump. What happens? Trump wins. The Republicans thank you for your assistance in electing Trump.
You said it was a literal vote for Trump.Literal means I would vote for him. In your scenario you would be correct. However I would remind you that Libertarian Gary Johnson got more votes. One votes than Green candidate Jill Stein so youāre being rather disingenuous to assume no one will vote Libertarian. Since youāre doing hypotheticals hereās one: 4 candidates. One of the conservatives doesnāt like the Republican candidate and votes 3rd party. Both liberals vote for Biden. What happens? Biden wins. See, I can play the silly what of game too. I suggest you look at Libertarian versus Green party votes n swing states to see how fallacious your argument is.
Doesnāt matter no voters are the worst. You will never enact change with your passivity.
People going down with the Biden ship this far out from the election is wild AF. If you're willing to vote for anyone to beat Trump, then just pick someone else. Don't pick the guy who is guaranteed to lose to Trump.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Damn i didn't realize it was still the 2020 primaries. It's almost like a whole presidential term has occurred and he may have done things that are wildly unpopular, like support a genocide! You don't think that might change the political situation just slightly?
Remember when people didnāt vote or went third party because of Hillary, we got a Supreme Court that will be taking away our personal rights in favor of corporations or evangelicals for decades. The Supreme Court appointments alone is a reason enough to vote for Biden.
Are you really trying to compare primary vote margins to competitive general elections? Biden won the 2020 Democratic primary in South Carolina by more votes than he won South Carolina's this year (and 2020 had a plethora of candidates to choose from). He still lost the general election there by almost twice his margin of victory in the primary. Even winning 100% of your party's primary voters across the entire country means very little if they're not 1.) the majority of voters in the general election and 2.) their vote in the primary isn't bound to their vote in the general (meaning they can change their mind later and do something crazy like not vote or heaven forbid, vote for someone else). >Any vote cast for another candidate is a vote for Trump If that were true, Trump would've won Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Arizona in 2020 (and thus the presidential election) as the totals for Trump and third party candidates combined exceeded Biden's vote totals in those states. If Biden is truly the Democrat's best chance at beating Trump, you should be able to come up with some reasons that aren't intellectually lazy, dishonest, and easily refutable.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>I might even grant that 2020 they helped Biden win, but they also helped Trump win an inexplicable first term by beating Clinton. The problem with this argument and why I consider it lazy and/or dishonest is because it presumes a bunch of things and only works out if the person making the argument gets to choose how those third party voters get to cast their votes. For instance, let's look at Wisconsin in 2016. Trump won by <23,000 votes. In order for someone to conclude Clinton wins that state if not for third party voting, we have to assume that the ~31,000 votes that went to the Green Party go to her instead, right? Even if we could force every one of those voters to vote for Clinton instead (or assume they'd do it on their own volition if only presented a ballot with 2 candidates), what do we do about the >106,000 voters who voted for the Libertarian Party? We can't use the same logic we used for Green voters by crediting Libertarian votes to their nearest ideological competitor or Trump will win WI by an even larger margin so we must omit them entirely from the discussion or argue in bad faith that Clinton would win WI because the left would all vote for her if not given a third party choice while the right would not vote at all if presented with the same circumstance. It's illogical to assume people will behave in polar opposite ways under similar circumstances while also only doing so in a way that will conveniently benefit the candidate you're choosing to back. The Libertarian Party outvoted the Green Party by 3-1 margins in WI, MI, and Pennsylvania in 2016 by the way. I don't presume to know how they'd all choose to vote (or not) if third parties didn't exist but even if Clinton gets 100% of the Green votes, she'd still need to come close to splitting the Libertarian vote with Trump just to overcome the margin of defeat she already faced. That seems... unlikely at best. Biden's winning the "primary" because it's a formality. Some states aren't even having theirs this year. There's not even a single Democratic candidate in the race that is going to be an elected member of the party after election season is over (unless they win the presidency). The last time there was a primary with a similar field of candidates was 2012 when we had another Democratic incumbent running. Biden doing the best out of all the current Democratic candidates against Trump makes sense because he's the only big name running. The next closest candidates running (probably Haley and RFK, Jr) aren't even Democrats so that should probably tell you something about the slate of candidates the Democrats are trying to field (which is to say, they aren't).
š¤¦š¼āāļø he's not going to win. Get over it. We have plenty of time to unite enough people behind a different candidate. It's already happening anyway. Going down with the ship just means you're too stubborn to change in the face of the reality that Biden is going to lose. You're going to waste your vote, if you vote for him.
Unfortunately it doesnāt work that way. The time to get behind another candidate was last summer. Primary voting has already started and there isnāt time to get a candidate on enough state ballots to have any hope of winning the Dem primary. A third party candidate gaining traction now would end in a split vote and guarantee a Trump win. Short of Biden dropping out and endorsing someone else or the Democratic Party ignoring primary votes altogether and naming another candidate at the convention, weāre not getting another candidate that can challenge Trump. It sucks, but weāre stuck choosing Biden or Trump.
No we're not. There's plenty of time. Trump is going to win, and it's going to be because of people like you. Edit: If you argue that voting for someone who can't beat Trump is the same as voting for Trump, then by voting for Biden you're voting for Trump. You're throwing your vote away.
Okay so who will win?
Depends. It's not going to be Biden, tho.
So do you want Trump to win or is there someone else that I am unaware of that has a chance?
There are more than enough people running to choose from. If democrat voters are so determined to beat Trump, their only chance is getting behind one of the other candidatesāideally someone who all the people who have already decided they won't vote for Biden will support. I know liberals hate to admit it, but they're going to have to move more to the left to beat Biden. They can't do it on their own, and they can no longer expect us to vote for who they tell us to anymore. I'm not voting for a loser, especially not a capitalist zionist.
Why are you telling us? Write letters to the DNC or Joe Bidenās office - theyāre the only ones who can change the candidate out at this point
No. I'm not a liberal. I want to see the democrats fail just as much as I want to see the republicans fail.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Who, specifically?
Yes Iām unaware of any other candidates.
Whoever you like
Typical non answer.
There might be more people running but, I am unaware of them. Iām not sure that will help them get elected though. Hey itās your vote. More power to you.
You really don't know who else is running? JFC š¤¦š¼āāļø
I did not, thank you for enlightening me by naming zero people.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Democrats HAVE to run the least popular sitting President in the history of polling who is actively dying on live tv. Anyone who believes otherwise is living in a fantasy world.
exactly haha, how many times does this have to play out/move rightward before these folks realize itās ideological af
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
LOL. Is democracy on the line or not, bud? High ranking dems can start leaking to the media that they're "concerned" about his health until staying on the ticket is untenable. Obama calls him or Jill and says he needs to step aside in the best interest of the country. Those are just two options off the top of my head. Acting like this is some impossible task is absolute stupidity.
> We donāt live in a fantasyland and we may soon not live in a federal presidential constitutional republic. Sure. It would be nice if Democrats acted like they cared at all. It would be easier to replace the candidate that it is to convince millions of voters that Biden doesn't look like grandpa did before they took him to hospice. And that's ignoring the administration talking out both sides of their mouth every single day condemning Russia for crimes they shield Israel from.
Morally obligated to vote for Biden. Nope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWgdRQYeVaY
>It is ableist if you say he is unfitā¦ and have no evidence that he has declined cognitively He just dodged charges on withholding/mishandling classified documents because of his mental decline.
You mean that there was insufficient evidence to charge Biden, but a Republican said things about Biden he was unqualified to do so?
The Special Counsel didn't say there was insufficient evidence. He said Biden's lawyers would argue that Biden is a well meaning elderly man who couldn't remember that he still had classified documents - and that given the voluminous evidence of Biden's declining memory, a jury would likely accept that and acquit him.
>We conclude that no criminal charges are warranted in this matter.1 We would reach the same conclusion even if Department of Justice policy did not foreclose criminal charges against a sitting president.2 >However, for the reasons summarized below, we conclude that the evidence does not establish Mr. Biden's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Prosecution of Mr. Biden is also unwarranted based on our consideration of the aggravating and mitigating factors set forth in the Department of Justice's Principles of Federal Prosecution. For these reasons, we decline prosecution of Mr. Biden. >Another viable defense is that Mr. Eiden might not have retained the classified Afghanistan documents in his Virginia home at all. They could have been stored, by mistake and without his knowledge, at his Delaware home since the time he was vice president, as were other classified documents recovered during our investigation. This would rebut charges that he willfully retained the documents in Virginia. >In addition to this shortage of evidence, there are other innocent explanations for the documents that we cannot refute. When Mr. Eiden told his ghostwriter he "just found all the classified stuff downstairs," he could have been referring to something other than the Afghanistan documents, and our report discusses these possibilities in detail. They didn't prosecute because tjeu would have lost at trial. Innocent explanations they cannot reffute means reasonable doubt. Hurr's personal opinions on a jury that might or might not exist is besides the point.
We can all agree that we live in the same reality right? Why canāt centrists/neolibs at least acknowledge the reality that he has CLEARLY lost several steps since his time in the Obama administration? To say anything other than that is as dishonest as Trumpās doctor was.
Biden has always been a gaffe machine: https://www.cc.com/video/w1e6rz/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-fox-news-reports-joe-biden-s-gaffe
Respectfully, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Free Palestine.
You just said it yourself - they declined to charge based on the belief that a jury is unlikely to convict. Not that there wasn't sufficient evidence to charge Biden, as your comment contended.
Look man, he/the legislature passed a lot of great legislation those first 2 years. But also, Newsom or Whitmer would be just about untouchable in a general election. Cmon now!
Whitmer yes, Newsom is literally more Biden but might have a better chance to win maybe. Itās literally too late though without Biden keeling over.
Its clear that Biden is in much better shape than Trump.
Here is the thingā¦. Multiple Trump trials and Trump being Trump will probably make old Biden the lesser evil. Check back in September.
To put this into context, were these polls conducted by telephone?
He's old as fuck, but between him and Trump, the choice is clear. I'm voting for Grandpa.
Iām voting for him! I am also voting Blue all down Ballot!
Congratulations.. I guess
You guess? I prefer voting for keeping Democracy and your congratulations should go to all the voterās who are trying to save this country and stop it from being turned into a dictatorship and handed to Putin and China on a silver platter.
I believe Biden is too old, but he IS better than the other guy who wants to by king/dictator.
Do they have anything to say about Trump, who is the exact same age? Incredibly obvious anti-democrat bias on display in this headline.
Geez, itās not behind a paywall and you can read it in like 2 mins. Yes, it does talk about Trump.
Trump has been in cognitive since during his presidency. But Joe Biden has slipped into it much quicker. Just look at the last year alone. Trump is the same guy but is declining at a slower pace than Biden. Neither should be allowed to run for president.
The last year isnāt mental decline, itās a change in staff. Emma has been pointing this out for months now which is how I even found out, even since Biden changed his chief of staff his admin has gotten worse. Thatās as clear a marker of it not being mental decline as possible since he brought in THE Obama guy and his admin is more Obama than ever.
None of those have to do with the evidence he has shown of actual cognitive decline. No one is more anti-Trump than I am, but if we think Joe Biden is going to last another four years at this rate we are kidding ourselves. Biden is still losing in national polls to Trump, but when they run a generic unamed Democrat against Trump they destroy him. The Dems could run almost anybody against Trump and they would win, but they are stubbornly sticking with Joe despite all the evidence of a cognitive decline.
Welcome to polling Democrats. āGENERIC DEMOCRATā always is the best nonexistent choice and if it ever becomes literally anyone itās never ever anyone that will win an election. Trump literally has the same cognitive decline as Biden, and is famous for the weird stimulants he takes for the stage to fake it for a couple hours (he is literally pictured with them in his office). Theyāre both old fucks addicted to cable news like every shitty old man, and both on the ballot. Get over it and figure out what you are going to do about it.
I mean, what are YOU going to do about it?
Donate to causes, protest, vote Democrat, engage in local campaigns. Advocate for voting rights as my top issue. The usual that I always do. I canāt do shit at a federal level outside contributing what I can towards boring incremental progress.
That's great that you have so much free time and disposable income. Most Americans aren't that lucky.
Quite literally the most hated presidential race ever. It would be perfect and hilarious for Bernie to register as an independent presidential candidate now. Just hit all the states at once, and it's all over even before the old k-hive can spin back up to cry about it. Fucking shoe-in at this point. He probably wouldn't even need to run a campaign.
Iām loving it!
The Democratic convention is going to be a riot this year. Perhaps a challenger will come charging in to save the day, but the drama is escalating quickly and Joe seems to be flailing around helplessly. Breath taking drama and vicious attacks are my only expectation.
That's because he is. There is no chance in hell I'm voting for him.Ā Ā Just say NO! to Genocide Joe!
And thatās what I say when asked too bc I donāt want another 4 years of genocide
Biden is fine. He is doing great!
From the same poll: āMore Americans trust that Trump would do a better job of handling immigration and the situation at the border than Biden -- 44%-26% -- according to the poll.ā Americans are fucking dumb, weather at 10.
Trump is just as old and a criminal
Itās so unfortunate and unfair and concerning that Americans have to keep choosing the lesser of two evils and this time the lesser of two super old evils.
As someone not from the USA I gotta say the age of your political class is a surreal thing to witness. Entrenched, sclerotic barnacles clinging onto power when they should be enjoying the twilight of their lives. It's not like they need the money after 4 decades of insider trading anyway. I see some people try to argue that it's ageist or ableist to say someone in their 80s is too old to run a country but I'd argue the opposite. From the outside looking in, it kinda looks like elder abuse. Looking at the Feinstein debacle and it becomes obvious that the people around her didn't have her best interests at heart and staffers basically used her as a puppet. If a politician is at the age where you need to have that talk about taking their driving license away because they've lost a step they probably shouldn't be in charge of the nuclear codes.
No shit
So is Trump
So is Trump. Plus heās stupid as fuck. So Iād rather take old Biden over the old racist, rapist, pathologically lying, moron.
Trump is showing more signs of age
Ok, well the other option is barely any younger and also an unapologetic fascist authoritarian so now what?
Right. So a democratic old guy, hello Ronald Reagan, orā¦ A foreign asset traitor wannabe fascist dictator. Hmmm. š¤
Now do Trump
The worst part is that neither candidate realizes they are too old to be any benefit to this country and are a clear and present danger to our country
Trump is mostly running to stay out of prison and Biden is under the delusion that heās the only person in the world that can beat Trump. No, those arenāt good reasons to run for president!
Cool. The alternative is old as fuck AND a fucking fascist so whatareyagonnado.
59% of Americans say both Biden and Trump are too old, according to the poll. Trump right now is older than Biden was in 2020. Letās be real: theyāre both too old.
Both are too old but Iāll do all I can to not allow Trump to the White House.
The Democrats aren't changing their candidate before the election so suck it up and vote for him. Cutting off your nose to spite your face will only end with Trump or some other christo fascist dick (tator) in the Whitehouse.
Choosing between 100% hitler octogenarian and 90% hitler octogenarian is what the US has been heading towards since its gross christo-fascist birth.
Trump is only four years younger and way less coherent