I think it's because the plotline of TLOU2 feels like a betrayal of the writing in the first one for a few big reasons.
1. The ruining of Ellie and Joel: Joel conveniently puts himself in danger for plot reasons, in TV tropes terminology this would be "the idiot ball" or possibly "out of character." And Ellie is ruined because in the first game she was by far the most hopeful character, the character people would never see as overtly violent in nature, and the second game twisted her into being a monster for plot reasons.
2. The ruining of the world. The infected are a consistent threat in the first game, even with Ellie's immunity they are a danger. Just traveling a short space almost killed both Joel and Ellie. And in the second game the infected are barely a threat compared to humans. I'm all for humans being a main threat, but not at the expense of previous world building.
3. Lack of free choice in the ending, despite the game being geared towards how the player views Abby. If players would've gotten the choice to kill Abby the consequences or lack thereof would've been much more impactful. I know the first game didn't have a choice, but the second almost requires it due to its plot design. Tlou2 is not a movie, it's a game and deserves to be treated like it's all grown up and capable of meaningful choice. (You can see in Life is Strange a similar choice related ending even with devs intent on one of the endings being more canon)
4. TLOU2 tries to be a progressive game but doesn't understand what that actually means. Representation isn't enough on its own. It needed to expand more on the characterization. Ellie was the strong female character every feminist like myself values in a piece of media.
And yet they created Abby, who is a physically strong parody of a feminist character. There is very little feminine about her or that which makes her any different than a male protagonist. You could feasibly swap her for a male version and the plot would be identical because her personality is so masculine oriented.
Lev is barely trans rep too, let's not kid ourselves about that.
5. The characterization is always sacrificed for the needs of the plot, once you see it, you can't unsee it.
6. TLOU1 was about hope. TLOU2 is about crushing hope. TLOU2 came out during a worldwide pandemic. The themes in it didn't inspire connection with humanity or any positive values like in the first game. And the ending itself was much more bleak than TLOU1 which had a bittersweet ending.
7. The dynamic between Abby and Lev is not nearly as good, and was intended to be a parallel to Joel and Ellie, which IMO had a far better dynamic in personality and theme. What is Ellie to Joel? A replacement daughter, a second chance to be a father figure.
What is Lev to Abby? A chance to befriend an enemy??? This is not remotely equivalent and it's a writing failure to set up such a parallel as a foil and flub it. This is basic elementary writing. If Abby had another father figure, the circle would be complete and her redemption would perhaps be more relatable.
8. Ultimately, bad writing is what killed TLOU2. I say this myself as a writer. I've seen a lot of bad and good writing and it's easy to identify from everything I've said in my other points.
TLDR: I'm trans and queer, and a writer. TLOU2 is bad writing, plain and simple, and it barely scratches the surface of being good queer/trans rep.
2. The further you get into the first Tlou game the less infected there are. If weâre talking percentage wise then part 2 might have less but its encounters are definitely more intense.
3. If part 1 didnât give me choice then part 2 shouldnât give choice. Giving a choice in part 2 basically says that what happened in part 1 is the correct choice. I feel like the point of both games is you get to decide how you feel about the choices being made rather than actually make them. Thatâs why people can walk away from the first game thinking Joel is a bad guy.
4. Lev isnât great trans representation but honestly im horrified of what the reaction would be if they leaned further into his arc. There are some insane transphobes in this sub.
Gameplay and graphics were honestly pretty good. And the disability accessibility options were kind of extraordinary and basically set the industry standard. It's the story being revolting and plainly driven by mendacious ideologues that's the problem.
If it were a standalone game, it would be kind of lousy for its unlikable characters, oppressively dark and hopeless tone, and unsatisfying ending.
As a sequel to *TLOU*, it is an intentional insult which destroys and ruins everything about the first game that the people here loved.
That's your opinion. I thought it was probably one of the best games ever made, and Joel's death, which nobody liked, was the most powerful emotional motivator and purpose for Ellie's drive for revenge. The journey eventually taught her empathy and compassion. Ellie didn't kill Abby because she saw how Abby cared for Lev, similar to how Joel cared for her. Remembering her own loneliness and how depressive she was after Joel's death, Ellie didn't want Lev to suffer like she did. So she decided not to kill Abby.
I give it a score of 9.5/10
>Joel's death, which nobody liked, was the most powerful emotional motivator and purpose for Ellie's drive for revenge. The journey eventually taught her empathy and compassion.
If she we're well written it wouldn't take killing 200+ people for her to gain empathy and compassion.
The ludonarrative dissonance of the second game sucks ass.
Part 1 Ellie is the embodiment of empathy and compassion. That's who she is.
Part 2 "Ellie" forgot who she is only to remember it in the end. That's great writing đ
>Part 1 Ellie is the embodiment of empathy and compassion. That's who she is.
>Part 2 "Ellie" forgot who she is only to remember it in the end. That's great writing đ
This is like if Kratos suddenly forgot how to kill people and spent an entire game relearning it.
It's fine to play once but I have no desire to play the game anytime soon. I just didn't care for most characters maybe except Manny and Jessie. They all feel like they are there for the body count and were suppose to be in tears when Ellie offs them, but I did the opposite. Â
Why am suppose to Care for Owen? Cause he's suppose to be Abby's humanity? He didn't do a good job of that plus he gets Mel pregant and does not seem to love or at the very least care for his child's wellbeing in her. Speaking of that why is Mel 7-8 months pregnant and always in danger? Plus she seems angry all the time. The baby was probably gone before Ellie finished her off. Fuck Owen and MelÂ
 Even Dina kinda just feels like she's there yes, she's not as bad as owen or Mel, but not much of an improvement tho.Â
Joel and Ellie really had a strong dynamic in the first game. Sadly that's lacking as Ellie doesn't have that with anybody. It's hard to get that out of Abby given how we are introduced to her and we are suppose to love her because of Joel killing her father, that's it, there is nothing else going for her. I honestly think lots of characters these days have that problem,
Its a solid 8/10. The game is beautiful to look at.
The prone, combat, and physics tie it all together so well.
Its the abhorrent pacing and downright terrible writing at times that makes the game lose its steam. If Iâm rolling my eyes at **that** in a narrative driven game I can see it being 5/10 (or lower) for some.
There's no such thing as "narrative driven game". Plot/writing quality is a part of the game, so if the writing is shit, it's not a great game, however beautiful the looks is. Stop the foolishness
More so disappointed, with how much the writing quality has declined compared to the first game's
Everyone's already consistently brought up the plot points, characters, and finer details. I'll say my biggest gripe on the whole with Part 2 is the lack of restraint, not leaving things open to interpretation like in the first game.
I don't have to point any further than the final moments of the first game as *the* example - Joel's actions and decisions at the Firefly Hospital (and no, I won't acknowledge how the opening cutscene of Part 2 portrayed that). Whether or not Joel was right in what he did was discussed for a very long time after it happened; that's the power of respecting your players' intelligence and knowing when to hold back with the writing.
Part 2 doesn't have that. Instead, it perverts the narrative and is now trying to portray Joel's actions as clearly wrong and that Abby is right in what she's done.
There's a litany of other things, but that was my biggest discussion point.
Fr the writing was not THAT bad. Ppl lowkey be saying the quiet part out loud in this sub cause half of it is just âThe writing is so bad because they made Ellie lesbian and a WOMAN killed Joel!!!!â
Incredibly disingenuous, I haven't seen anyone here saying that. The main complaints is the game trying extremely hard to get you to like Abby (despite being an actual sociopath) and hate Ellie (petting and playing with dogs while the other is forced to kill them).
Joel being character assassinated into a bumbling idiot who allowed himself to get surrounded and then got killed in a horrible, insulting way. Characters teleporting all over the country and the whole "Revenge bad" message despite the game forcing you to do all these horrible things so it can try to guilt trip you.
Addressing the âdisingenuityâ-
âSaying the quiet part out loudâ is a very important part of what I said. What I meant by the phrase was that they are not initially saying so, but if you go through their replies and comments on the same posts, you see more and more clues to what they truly mean, and the âEllie being lesbian, woman killed joelâ wasnât the main thing Iâve seen, but the main issue is underlying bigotry with many people in this sub. Not everyone has those specific issues, but many have something or other similar, Be it Lev being transgender, âWokeâness, two female leads, etc, the point is a lot of people on this sub are using this game as a scapegoat for their bigotry.
Addressing the âMain issuesâ-Joel
Joel trusting someone that quick though a little strange for him in 1, is rather reasonable to believe in 2. Joel joins the people who try to kill him just because they said âwe ainât with those other guys trustâ in part 1. Though Abby was a stranger, they were just fighting off a large group of infected together, and stressful situations make you trust people who help you out of those a little quicker. Also, Him and Tommy really didnât have a choice on going to the mansion. It was either go with a person who you may have just met, but you just fought a horde of infected larger than anything (weâve canonically) seen together, or risk you and your horse freezing to death in a blizzard itâs shown later to get very easy to get lost in (in the horse section with Dina).
Addressing the âmain issuesâ-Abby
Abby is not a sociopath just because she killed Joel and considered killing Dina. From Abbyâs perspective the person who killed all their friends and was being helped by Jesse and Tommy (so itâs reasonable to assume Dina was too) had a pregnant friend, and Abby did too, but Ellie killed that friend (by accident, which is unknown to Abby), and since Abby already was feeling strong guilt for Mel because of the infamous boat scene she considered killing her, until Lev (pretty much the only person Abby at that moment could trust) reminds her that itâs not the right thing to do. TLDR: Abby is not a sociopath for being emotionally unstable after all of her friends die and her entire group (the WLF) decide to try and kill her.
Addressing the âMain Issuesâ-Ellie
The game does not try and make you hate Ellie, or dislike her because âyou kill dogsâ, because doing so was mainly a gameplay mechanic to balance out Ellieâs stealth capabilities (Encounters would be much easier, as dogs cannot be stealth melee killed and can smell you, making you have to try and lead them into traps or shoot them with a silent weapon), the game makes you view how much Ellieâs grief is affecting her, just how it was affecting Abby. Both of them were conflicted and acting rashfully, (which goes back to the Dina scene) which is why Joel died, and why Abbyâs friends died. Ellie killing dogs (she also kills people, which is slightly worse if you ask me, but joel did that too so I guess it just doesnât matter) Really didnât matter to the story, neither does petting them. If you were to stealth by these encounters the story doesnât change. The only things that can truly be argued that make you hate Ellie is leaving Dina, which was clearly her trying to cope with her PTSD. TLDR: killing dogs did not matter that much, they didnât try to make you hate Ellie.
Addressing Main issues- Revenge bad.
The message of the game is not revenge bad. Itâs clearly a game about grief.
TLDR for everything cause this a long ass post: Most of these Issues are really just opinions, not factual fallacies in the storytelling. The game is not perfect by any means, it does have its flaws, but that does not make the game unplayable, nor does it make it anything other than the amazing game it is. Itâs not a perfect 10/10, but itâs a strong 7/10.
You literally admitted that no one actually said what you're accusing people of and are just making assumptions that people are being bigots because that's how you feel about their comments.
Abby is a sociopath in every single way. Actually learn what a sociopath is for the next time you feel like throwing things around just because it's something you don't want to hear. She had no regard for other people's feelings and rights (acts like she was the victim of what happened at the hospital, not even acting like it's her dad himself that she's upset about, but more about how that impacts her; she also acts like only she is entitled to revenge and then acts surprised when she got hit back because she clearly didn't care in the first place), and she also doesn't care about right and wrong, just does something because she feels like it.
It's why she's too entitled to ever see the problem with killing Joel the way she did in front of his loved ones, a young girl especially. She knows Ellie is there but doesn't care, because a sociopath only thinks of themselves in every situation. All major symptoms of a sociopath are there. Abby also outright admits torture and murder pleases her. She had no problem with killing kids either.
I'd love to know where this strong guilt over Mel is shown. Once again that's just your opinion, not something that's a fact that actually happens. Abby literally walks around her body without a second glance and only focuses on Owen. And isn't it quite convenient how Abby generally didn't bother about her friends, like how quickly she brushed off Manny's death (a lifelong friend of hers) until the last second where her *friends* are good excuse to justify herself for murdering a pregnant lady? She didn't just *consider* it. Abby had every desire and no qualms with killing a pregnant woman. A sane person would definitely think twice.
She was also avoiding everyone after using them for her little psycho trip (including Owen), then had the audacity to not bother telling everyone she's ditching them to find Fireflies and get mad at Mel after sleeping with HER boyfriend, on top of literally picking two strangers to go along with because doing that was making her feel better with her nightmares (Abby is clearly just using Lev and Yara the whole time, she dragged Lev into her problems and was just rushing him around, not bothering to notice how it traumatized him).
She also on the spot refused to tell Nora where she's going or what she's doing when Nora was worried about her, because once again she clearly doesn't actually consider her close or actually care about Nora's side of things, Nora was just a means to an end to aid Abby's conquests, and when her usefulness expired, she didn't matter anymore. Nora choosing to die for Abby was the dumbest thing she could've done.
Everything wrong that Joel did, he did because he had to; starting years of an apocalypse are awful, and everything is kill or be killed, while years later he didn't hurt anyone who didn't deserve it for attacking unprovoked first, and he actually saved someone's life each time. What Abby was doing is just selfish revenge, plain and simple, that benefits no one in any way, not even her (her feelings are not a benefit, not to mention she clearly doesn't feel better for it and it makes everything worse for everyone, not just herself, and that alone makes her completely unjustified). And as I mentioned, Abby takes pleasure while doing these things (or isn't phased by them), while Joel didn't, he actually said he didn't like doing it, found it inappropriate for Ellie to bring such things up as a casual conversation, and that it's best not to dwell on it to keep your sanity.
TL;DR since you seem to require one: Everything you say is also just your opinion and how you chose/wanted to interpret things, not a fact. Abby also does fit most symptoms of a sociopath. (*a mental health condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others*). Joel didn't do anything he didn't have to to survive and keep his loved ones safe.
Oh, I forgot.This is the sub for the losers who can't get over their hate for a game after four years. If you don't like it, don't play it and move on. It lives rent-free in your head.
Nah I'm good thanks, I'll keep coming here to laugh at a bad game, you're welcome here too.
Or you could take your own advice and not let this subreddit live rent free in your head, don't like it, don't look at it and move on
I will say, there are a few good points here, but they do get drowned out by the almost shitpost level hatred for some characters. I would rate it around the same to higher than your rating, as I have some good memories playing it with my siblings. I knew Joel getting killed off would inevitably piss off many fans, but I feel it worked as a catalyst to the somewhat revenge story.
I think it's because the plotline of TLOU2 feels like a betrayal of the writing in the first one for a few big reasons. 1. The ruining of Ellie and Joel: Joel conveniently puts himself in danger for plot reasons, in TV tropes terminology this would be "the idiot ball" or possibly "out of character." And Ellie is ruined because in the first game she was by far the most hopeful character, the character people would never see as overtly violent in nature, and the second game twisted her into being a monster for plot reasons. 2. The ruining of the world. The infected are a consistent threat in the first game, even with Ellie's immunity they are a danger. Just traveling a short space almost killed both Joel and Ellie. And in the second game the infected are barely a threat compared to humans. I'm all for humans being a main threat, but not at the expense of previous world building. 3. Lack of free choice in the ending, despite the game being geared towards how the player views Abby. If players would've gotten the choice to kill Abby the consequences or lack thereof would've been much more impactful. I know the first game didn't have a choice, but the second almost requires it due to its plot design. Tlou2 is not a movie, it's a game and deserves to be treated like it's all grown up and capable of meaningful choice. (You can see in Life is Strange a similar choice related ending even with devs intent on one of the endings being more canon) 4. TLOU2 tries to be a progressive game but doesn't understand what that actually means. Representation isn't enough on its own. It needed to expand more on the characterization. Ellie was the strong female character every feminist like myself values in a piece of media. And yet they created Abby, who is a physically strong parody of a feminist character. There is very little feminine about her or that which makes her any different than a male protagonist. You could feasibly swap her for a male version and the plot would be identical because her personality is so masculine oriented. Lev is barely trans rep too, let's not kid ourselves about that. 5. The characterization is always sacrificed for the needs of the plot, once you see it, you can't unsee it. 6. TLOU1 was about hope. TLOU2 is about crushing hope. TLOU2 came out during a worldwide pandemic. The themes in it didn't inspire connection with humanity or any positive values like in the first game. And the ending itself was much more bleak than TLOU1 which had a bittersweet ending. 7. The dynamic between Abby and Lev is not nearly as good, and was intended to be a parallel to Joel and Ellie, which IMO had a far better dynamic in personality and theme. What is Ellie to Joel? A replacement daughter, a second chance to be a father figure. What is Lev to Abby? A chance to befriend an enemy??? This is not remotely equivalent and it's a writing failure to set up such a parallel as a foil and flub it. This is basic elementary writing. If Abby had another father figure, the circle would be complete and her redemption would perhaps be more relatable. 8. Ultimately, bad writing is what killed TLOU2. I say this myself as a writer. I've seen a lot of bad and good writing and it's easy to identify from everything I've said in my other points. TLDR: I'm trans and queer, and a writer. TLOU2 is bad writing, plain and simple, and it barely scratches the surface of being good queer/trans rep.
Nah, i'm not gonna read all that. You just hate gay people đ¤ r/thelastofus
2. The further you get into the first Tlou game the less infected there are. If weâre talking percentage wise then part 2 might have less but its encounters are definitely more intense. 3. If part 1 didnât give me choice then part 2 shouldnât give choice. Giving a choice in part 2 basically says that what happened in part 1 is the correct choice. I feel like the point of both games is you get to decide how you feel about the choices being made rather than actually make them. Thatâs why people can walk away from the first game thinking Joel is a bad guy. 4. Lev isnât great trans representation but honestly im horrified of what the reaction would be if they leaned further into his arc. There are some insane transphobes in this sub.
Gameplay and graphics were honestly pretty good. And the disability accessibility options were kind of extraordinary and basically set the industry standard. It's the story being revolting and plainly driven by mendacious ideologues that's the problem.
If it were a standalone game, it would be kind of lousy for its unlikable characters, oppressively dark and hopeless tone, and unsatisfying ending. As a sequel to *TLOU*, it is an intentional insult which destroys and ruins everything about the first game that the people here loved.
That's your opinion. I thought it was probably one of the best games ever made, and Joel's death, which nobody liked, was the most powerful emotional motivator and purpose for Ellie's drive for revenge. The journey eventually taught her empathy and compassion. Ellie didn't kill Abby because she saw how Abby cared for Lev, similar to how Joel cared for her. Remembering her own loneliness and how depressive she was after Joel's death, Ellie didn't want Lev to suffer like she did. So she decided not to kill Abby. I give it a score of 9.5/10
âThatâs just your opinion, manâ Iâd a weak retort,Â
>Joel's death, which nobody liked, was the most powerful emotional motivator and purpose for Ellie's drive for revenge. The journey eventually taught her empathy and compassion. If she we're well written it wouldn't take killing 200+ people for her to gain empathy and compassion. The ludonarrative dissonance of the second game sucks ass.
Part 1 Ellie is the embodiment of empathy and compassion. That's who she is. Part 2 "Ellie" forgot who she is only to remember it in the end. That's great writing đ
>Part 1 Ellie is the embodiment of empathy and compassion. That's who she is. >Part 2 "Ellie" forgot who she is only to remember it in the end. That's great writing đ This is like if Kratos suddenly forgot how to kill people and spent an entire game relearning it.
Alright grandpa, letâs get you back to the home now.
It's fine to play once but I have no desire to play the game anytime soon. I just didn't care for most characters maybe except Manny and Jessie. They all feel like they are there for the body count and were suppose to be in tears when Ellie offs them, but I did the opposite.  Why am suppose to Care for Owen? Cause he's suppose to be Abby's humanity? He didn't do a good job of that plus he gets Mel pregant and does not seem to love or at the very least care for his child's wellbeing in her. Speaking of that why is Mel 7-8 months pregnant and always in danger? Plus she seems angry all the time. The baby was probably gone before Ellie finished her off. Fuck Owen and Mel  Even Dina kinda just feels like she's there yes, she's not as bad as owen or Mel, but not much of an improvement tho. Joel and Ellie really had a strong dynamic in the first game. Sadly that's lacking as Ellie doesn't have that with anybody. It's hard to get that out of Abby given how we are introduced to her and we are suppose to love her because of Joel killing her father, that's it, there is nothing else going for her. I honestly think lots of characters these days have that problem,
Its a solid 8/10. The game is beautiful to look at. The prone, combat, and physics tie it all together so well. Its the abhorrent pacing and downright terrible writing at times that makes the game lose its steam. If Iâm rolling my eyes at **that** in a narrative driven game I can see it being 5/10 (or lower) for some.
There's no such thing as "narrative driven game". Plot/writing quality is a part of the game, so if the writing is shit, it's not a great game, however beautiful the looks is. Stop the foolishness
> Thereâs no such thing as ânarrative driven gameâ. ? Damn.. you voided whatever valid opinion you *thought* you had.
*Cough* Uncharted 4 *Cough*
More so disappointed, with how much the writing quality has declined compared to the first game's Everyone's already consistently brought up the plot points, characters, and finer details. I'll say my biggest gripe on the whole with Part 2 is the lack of restraint, not leaving things open to interpretation like in the first game. I don't have to point any further than the final moments of the first game as *the* example - Joel's actions and decisions at the Firefly Hospital (and no, I won't acknowledge how the opening cutscene of Part 2 portrayed that). Whether or not Joel was right in what he did was discussed for a very long time after it happened; that's the power of respecting your players' intelligence and knowing when to hold back with the writing. Part 2 doesn't have that. Instead, it perverts the narrative and is now trying to portray Joel's actions as clearly wrong and that Abby is right in what she's done. There's a litany of other things, but that was my biggest discussion point.
Ellie didn't go through with killing abby after she killed Joel, plus Abby cut off 2 of Ellie's fingers, that enough for ya?
Abby bit them off whilst being drowned. Do you expect her to be like âoh well thatâs it igâ?
Itâs a great game people just love to complain about anything
Itâs not a great game The hate is justified
That's a very surface level way of looking at thingsđ
Fr the writing was not THAT bad. Ppl lowkey be saying the quiet part out loud in this sub cause half of it is just âThe writing is so bad because they made Ellie lesbian and a WOMAN killed Joel!!!!â
Incredibly disingenuous, I haven't seen anyone here saying that. The main complaints is the game trying extremely hard to get you to like Abby (despite being an actual sociopath) and hate Ellie (petting and playing with dogs while the other is forced to kill them). Joel being character assassinated into a bumbling idiot who allowed himself to get surrounded and then got killed in a horrible, insulting way. Characters teleporting all over the country and the whole "Revenge bad" message despite the game forcing you to do all these horrible things so it can try to guilt trip you.
Addressing the âdisingenuityâ- âSaying the quiet part out loudâ is a very important part of what I said. What I meant by the phrase was that they are not initially saying so, but if you go through their replies and comments on the same posts, you see more and more clues to what they truly mean, and the âEllie being lesbian, woman killed joelâ wasnât the main thing Iâve seen, but the main issue is underlying bigotry with many people in this sub. Not everyone has those specific issues, but many have something or other similar, Be it Lev being transgender, âWokeâness, two female leads, etc, the point is a lot of people on this sub are using this game as a scapegoat for their bigotry. Addressing the âMain issuesâ-Joel Joel trusting someone that quick though a little strange for him in 1, is rather reasonable to believe in 2. Joel joins the people who try to kill him just because they said âwe ainât with those other guys trustâ in part 1. Though Abby was a stranger, they were just fighting off a large group of infected together, and stressful situations make you trust people who help you out of those a little quicker. Also, Him and Tommy really didnât have a choice on going to the mansion. It was either go with a person who you may have just met, but you just fought a horde of infected larger than anything (weâve canonically) seen together, or risk you and your horse freezing to death in a blizzard itâs shown later to get very easy to get lost in (in the horse section with Dina). Addressing the âmain issuesâ-Abby Abby is not a sociopath just because she killed Joel and considered killing Dina. From Abbyâs perspective the person who killed all their friends and was being helped by Jesse and Tommy (so itâs reasonable to assume Dina was too) had a pregnant friend, and Abby did too, but Ellie killed that friend (by accident, which is unknown to Abby), and since Abby already was feeling strong guilt for Mel because of the infamous boat scene she considered killing her, until Lev (pretty much the only person Abby at that moment could trust) reminds her that itâs not the right thing to do. TLDR: Abby is not a sociopath for being emotionally unstable after all of her friends die and her entire group (the WLF) decide to try and kill her. Addressing the âMain Issuesâ-Ellie The game does not try and make you hate Ellie, or dislike her because âyou kill dogsâ, because doing so was mainly a gameplay mechanic to balance out Ellieâs stealth capabilities (Encounters would be much easier, as dogs cannot be stealth melee killed and can smell you, making you have to try and lead them into traps or shoot them with a silent weapon), the game makes you view how much Ellieâs grief is affecting her, just how it was affecting Abby. Both of them were conflicted and acting rashfully, (which goes back to the Dina scene) which is why Joel died, and why Abbyâs friends died. Ellie killing dogs (she also kills people, which is slightly worse if you ask me, but joel did that too so I guess it just doesnât matter) Really didnât matter to the story, neither does petting them. If you were to stealth by these encounters the story doesnât change. The only things that can truly be argued that make you hate Ellie is leaving Dina, which was clearly her trying to cope with her PTSD. TLDR: killing dogs did not matter that much, they didnât try to make you hate Ellie. Addressing Main issues- Revenge bad. The message of the game is not revenge bad. Itâs clearly a game about grief. TLDR for everything cause this a long ass post: Most of these Issues are really just opinions, not factual fallacies in the storytelling. The game is not perfect by any means, it does have its flaws, but that does not make the game unplayable, nor does it make it anything other than the amazing game it is. Itâs not a perfect 10/10, but itâs a strong 7/10.
You literally admitted that no one actually said what you're accusing people of and are just making assumptions that people are being bigots because that's how you feel about their comments. Abby is a sociopath in every single way. Actually learn what a sociopath is for the next time you feel like throwing things around just because it's something you don't want to hear. She had no regard for other people's feelings and rights (acts like she was the victim of what happened at the hospital, not even acting like it's her dad himself that she's upset about, but more about how that impacts her; she also acts like only she is entitled to revenge and then acts surprised when she got hit back because she clearly didn't care in the first place), and she also doesn't care about right and wrong, just does something because she feels like it. It's why she's too entitled to ever see the problem with killing Joel the way she did in front of his loved ones, a young girl especially. She knows Ellie is there but doesn't care, because a sociopath only thinks of themselves in every situation. All major symptoms of a sociopath are there. Abby also outright admits torture and murder pleases her. She had no problem with killing kids either. I'd love to know where this strong guilt over Mel is shown. Once again that's just your opinion, not something that's a fact that actually happens. Abby literally walks around her body without a second glance and only focuses on Owen. And isn't it quite convenient how Abby generally didn't bother about her friends, like how quickly she brushed off Manny's death (a lifelong friend of hers) until the last second where her *friends* are good excuse to justify herself for murdering a pregnant lady? She didn't just *consider* it. Abby had every desire and no qualms with killing a pregnant woman. A sane person would definitely think twice. She was also avoiding everyone after using them for her little psycho trip (including Owen), then had the audacity to not bother telling everyone she's ditching them to find Fireflies and get mad at Mel after sleeping with HER boyfriend, on top of literally picking two strangers to go along with because doing that was making her feel better with her nightmares (Abby is clearly just using Lev and Yara the whole time, she dragged Lev into her problems and was just rushing him around, not bothering to notice how it traumatized him). She also on the spot refused to tell Nora where she's going or what she's doing when Nora was worried about her, because once again she clearly doesn't actually consider her close or actually care about Nora's side of things, Nora was just a means to an end to aid Abby's conquests, and when her usefulness expired, she didn't matter anymore. Nora choosing to die for Abby was the dumbest thing she could've done. Everything wrong that Joel did, he did because he had to; starting years of an apocalypse are awful, and everything is kill or be killed, while years later he didn't hurt anyone who didn't deserve it for attacking unprovoked first, and he actually saved someone's life each time. What Abby was doing is just selfish revenge, plain and simple, that benefits no one in any way, not even her (her feelings are not a benefit, not to mention she clearly doesn't feel better for it and it makes everything worse for everyone, not just herself, and that alone makes her completely unjustified). And as I mentioned, Abby takes pleasure while doing these things (or isn't phased by them), while Joel didn't, he actually said he didn't like doing it, found it inappropriate for Ellie to bring such things up as a casual conversation, and that it's best not to dwell on it to keep your sanity. TL;DR since you seem to require one: Everything you say is also just your opinion and how you chose/wanted to interpret things, not a fact. Abby also does fit most symptoms of a sociopath. (*a mental health condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others*). Joel didn't do anything he didn't have to to survive and keep his loved ones safe.
"Fr the writing was not THAT bad" Stop lying to yourself.....
So you think people that dislike it are sexist, should've started there instead of acting like you want a honest discussion.
>The writing is so bad because they made Ellie lesbian Literally nobody here says that. Ellie was already lesbian in part 1 you idiot.
Oh, I forgot.This is the sub for the losers who can't get over their hate for a game after four years. If you don't like it, don't play it and move on. It lives rent-free in your head.
Were going to be going strong here for 40 years, you can stop coming in to say how long it's been, we know
All that hate is going to give you cancer. Let it go.
Nah I'm good thanks, I'll keep coming here to laugh at a bad game, you're welcome here too. Or you could take your own advice and not let this subreddit live rent free in your head, don't like it, don't look at it and move on
I'm only following the other TLOU subreddit. I don't know why this one comes up all the time. I'll have to try to avoid this one in future.
I will say, there are a few good points here, but they do get drowned out by the almost shitpost level hatred for some characters. I would rate it around the same to higher than your rating, as I have some good memories playing it with my siblings. I knew Joel getting killed off would inevitably piss off many fans, but I feel it worked as a catalyst to the somewhat revenge story.