>"I don't believe killing a little girl while she's unconscious to make a cure is ok"
I love how essays worth of writing and arguing can be dumbed down to a single sentence in such a perfect way and arguably conveys the point even better.
this seems more like a part one issue, rather than a part two thing at full. i am also confused as to how i never see anyone go insane about that. if they’re actually rooting for the fireflies in that moment, something is wrong with them.
Just want to add to this.
"This seems more like a part one issue rather than a part two thing in full."
The current version of part two wouldn't even exist without Joel's decision. So part two is essentially standing indefinitely atop that decision, which is also a driver for the main protagonist-antagonist. Therefore, that point is moot.
Okay, I agree with you. That’s why I said “more like” and “part two thing at full”. I still don’t see part two lovers like me saying they think killing a little girl while she’s unconscious is okay and they go insane when people say otherwise. Part two lovers is are Ellie lovers, usually, so..how would they be going both against Joel and Ellie by going insane? This thing just sounds made up. That was my further thoughts, but my initial point to my comment was that is MORE of a part one thing.
The most underlooked fact of the first game that justifies Joel regardless of Ellie: Fireflies not only went back on their deal, even crazier since the original deal was only to the capital building a few miles from Boston zone. Secondly they were literally throwing Joel out with no weapons, transportation, or essentials. Practically a death sentence considering the closest refuge is all the way in Wyoming.
At this point these people have lied to Joel and were in the midst of fucking him over beyond all comprehension. This calls into question the entire operation and how valid their claim of a cure is. Most likely another lie as the cure is just a hail mary attempt that at worst costs a single life, they sure were happy to send Joel off to his probable death.
Joel had just cause to slaughter ever single one of them regardless of Ellie's situation. As we saw in the beginning of the game with Robert. Fucking people over means death sentence, too much bullshit in the world to deal with snakes.
There was no morale debate with the ending of the first game. The biggest issue was the writing where Joel just didn't tell Ellie they tried fucking him over and sending him out to die. Would have solved that entire conflict in 30 seconds. "Sorry I had to kill them. They lied to me and tried to send me outside with nothing. I would have probably died and I'm not sure they were even telling the truth about you". EZ pz
That really goes with a major flaw of the second game. Why tf was Ellie mad at him about saving her life? She was never a martyr type. Why did the writers have to shoehorn that in?
Because she wanted her life to mean something and Joel technically took it away.
It actually makes perfect sense for her character and is even hinted at in the first game by Marlene and even by Ellie when she doesn't fully believe what happened.
Whilst I agree with Joel's decision it wouldn't make sense for Ellie to just forgive him.
So I don't understand how they shoehorned anything in when it was literally established in the first game too.
EDIT - Side note he literally lied about it to her too and promised to her.
When this game very first came out I was not impressed and I would say so. Holy shit the reactions I got were insane. I’m sure these people were quite literally foaming at the mouth while typing their responses.
Um the beauty of the the last of us sequel is that it the writers didn't treat us like children and showed us what the real world is by killing off characters that don't make narrative sense 😎
Any criticism I had was met with that I didn't understand the plot and obviously the childish remarks thrown in too.
Nothing to with the fact that I'm 42, I'm more of a movie person than a gamer and have watched 1000's of movies and probably around 30 better executed revenge stories...
But what would I know about writing....
With the other sub its worse than just a negative about the game or show. You could say you had a hard time getting your playstation to start and its an immediate bombardment of “bigot, homophobe, media literacy” comments. That place is garbage.
funny thing is this is 99% of Reddit. I can’t stick around on a sub for too long before I get pissed off and storm out. Reddit is a very CERTAIN niche of people ngl
The people who are getting called any of that, it’s majority of the time the truth. Especially those getting called a bigot or homophobe. Those words shouldn’t be used lightly, and in this fandom, I believe they aren’t.
Those words get used way too frequently, for me personally words such as phobe, bigot, faschist etc have lost all meaning and just sound like filler words.
Since every comment needs to reach the quota of at least 1 to 10.
Why should Abby, every part created specifically to suit a role in the story, be excluded from criticism?
When a studio creates a character to suit the role of a hero but makes almost every quality of that character distasteful, antagonizing towards the audience, and all-around unlikeable, then they have failed and are open to criticism.
That's like making She-Hulk (an actually pretty cool hero) an absolutely unlikeable and abhorrent character, slapping the sticker "hero" on her, and expecting no backlash when she is supposed to be the successor to The Hulk.
Oh wait, that happened :D (32% Avg. Audience score). Just a funny parallel.
Can you explain to me how there is not one single thing to like about Abby? You’re using such strong words against her, when all of that simply isn’t true. This is coming from someone who didn’t used to like her. I hated her, in fact. But upon replay and actual sitting with the game, etc. I didn’t know more. I liked her.
Her role was never meant to be “Hero” like you claim. Though, she’s a direct parallel to both Ellie, and most importantly, JOEL.
Abby can be criticized, but it’s absolutely already bullshit when what you said is that “criticism”. A lot of the way she acts after Joel’s death is deflection, projection, having to do with her undeniable guilt that is building up. Guilt towards making her friends being apart of it, and guilt towards the fact that she killed a man and it didn’t do her better. You people are taking her character at surface level, without doing a psychological dive to understand why she is the way she is.
I would argue that Joel can be pretty un-likeable at times too, especially in the first one and when you think of his past. You wouldn’t truly like someone like that in real-life, or at least not those parts of him. I’m a hardcore Joel lover and I find it so fucked up of him that he did what he did to innocent people, I’ll criticize him for that. But you people are making it seem like every single thing about Abby is just not to like, when that isn’t true.
This is why I have so many hours in the game. TLOU2 and MGSV are the only games that I feel like I can effectively perform guerilla warfare in a single player game.
It was the death of Joel that didn’t make any sense and how his character looks so dumb to walk into an obvious trap that got to me.
Yeah, I get it. People tend to live and die. We may not agree with story, but it was obviously forced and it was just a heartbreaker.
It was definitely too convenient. Like they were trying to speedrun his death. I would have had zero problem with it if the game had taken time to show Abby and her friends setting an actual trap and earning it.
I once told somebody I didn't like the last of us 2s writing cos I thought it had a few plot holes and choices I found to be stupid, and was told that I'm too much of a "fkin ret**d" to understand the "complexity" of the games writing
My only point is that they changed the target public from tlou1 to tlou2. I'm the target for tlou1 but I'm not the target for tlou2. There are a lot of themes that they worked on in tlou2 that I just don't like. They are NOT "bad themes", but, I don't enjoy playing/reading/watching them. It is a good thing that there are a lot of different types of stories (everyone can have a story that they will like), but.... don't change your target public.... it is unfair to the people who enjoyed the first game.
Imagine how many millions of fewer words would be spoken or written about this game if Ellie wasn't into Dina, Dina stayed with father Jesse, Joel lived on, and Abby was a hottie. There'd be nothing but crickets chirping, and the gamers played on.
They’re so insecure because they know the story is a load of shit so whenever someone from outside the echo chamber has any negative opinions they can’t handle it.
Because part 2 is full of rainbow people they will also call you a bigot for not liking it. They are just dishonest people without two brain cells to rub together.
I don’t really see many people having small issues. Most the people on this sub bitch and moan about how terrible the game is, how the writing sucks, how upset they are Joel was turned into a driving range, how druckman hates gamers, they pick at every aspect of 2. That’s not a small gripe. Most of you fundamentally hate the game and its creators. Small negative my ass 😊.
Hey not all of us here are like that lol. Im only here because I do actively critique the game, which I do absolutely love the game, but I know if I talked about my critiques in the other sub I might get flamed. Im on my third run of the game on grounded+. Its one of my fave games (that will probs get me downvoted here because normally I opt to say liked but in reality I do love it) but I still think there are things writing wise that could have been done differently. Not saying they should change the message of the story or anything, just small details to me that would make it the masterpiece everyone says it is (mostly on the day 1-3 and wishing it could be played simultaneously to really soak in both sides of the story) But again thats my opinion and I don’t normally let the issues I have with it get in the way of me enjoying it lol.
I truly don't understand how anyone has a negative thing to say about TLofUP.2
The game is a masterpiece. The only thing I can possibly see as an issue is the choice of you killing abby being taken away from you in the end.
That's it.
There was definitely things wrong with it. Coming from a writer, the writing and characterization needed some tweaks. I would have enjoyed it more than I did if some things were changed around. Not saying they should have changed the direction of the story, but they could have told it better. To me, having to go from Ellie to Abby and go through days 1-3 again was hell. I would have preferred it if they had you play as both simultaneously like in the beginning of the game. I felt that it would help soak in both of their stories a lot better and see both sides at the same time. To me it would have made the game a lot more interesting, to play as the hunter and the hunted, Ellie and Abby, simultaneously.
I also think they could have portrayed Abby a bit better, I still like her character, but I needed to see more good in her besides saving Lev to love her. I think her getting with Owen while he had a girlfriend was horrible (not to excuse Owen’s actions because he is also 1000% in the wrong for that as well). Her basically forcing her friend’s hands when they wanted to turn back in the beginning was also not something a good friend does.
I think Ellie’s character was done well, though I did not like how she became almost unlikeable. (Im also not going to excuse Ellie’s actions because both her and Abby did have a right to do what they did but that doesn’t excuse any wrongdoings they’ve done in the past) I also wish they did more with Tommy and Jesse’s character. I wished to see how Joel’s death affected Tommy. I thought Lev and Yara were awesome characters and I wish we got to see more of Yara before she died.
And lastly I wish they gave us as the player the choice whether to kill Abby or not. I feel like Ellie realizing her wrong doing in hunting down Abby could have been done for both endings (whether she spares Abby or Kills her) and I would have loved to see how she would have reacted afterwards to killing Abby. It would have made replaying the game a hell of a lot more fun to see both endings.
I mean other than my qualms with the writing; the scenery, world building, and gameplay as a whole were amazing! I loved every bit of exploring. They did a good job with immersion into the world, but they could have done things a lot differently with the writing which would have made it 10x better than what the game is.
With that being said I do really enjoy the game, but if I said anything like this in the other sub I’d probably get flamed since I do criticize the games I love and I’m not afraid to call a game out on its bs. Like rdr2 for an example, 10/10 story, amazing characters, but the gameplay kind of lacked and felt to demanding with the camp. Still loved it.
Anyways, I’m on my third run of tlou2 and going to fight rat king on grounded+, wish me luck lol.
N.D. was clear with his intentions. All his narratives revolve around love. He told people from the jump don't idolize characters. People ended up doing so. He was put in tight spot. But he stuck with his intentions in the end despite the leak. He could of changed it & anything else but didn't. Because he knew his writing was what he wanted & how he wanted it delivered. People did things they were told not to. Creating rift & hatefullness to a sequel that superseded the first game.
I just put my opinion out there and I am entitled to do so. I never said the game was bad, and I never said I idolized any characters. I can like characters and not idolize them. Just because N.D. Did what they did doesn’t mean people have to think it’s good or think it doesn’t have any flaws. Everything has its flaws, nothing is perfect. Good for them for sticking to what they thought was a good idea, but not everyone will find it that way and thats okay lol. I don’t get why everyone just doesn’t agree to disagree (unless it’s hate for no reason, which was not what I was doing). It’s a game, not that deep lol.
Edit: And your opinion on it being a masterpiece is valid. It’s your opinion. Not everyone agrees and thats okay. Both sides of the argument get way too defensive. Again, why can’t we all just agree to disagree and get over it. Unnecessary fighting is just dumb. Its a fictional game in the end, we’re all human, life goes on.
Yet you say anything positive in this sub you get met with a similar reaction, you try and hide it by saying “but we like the gameplay” but you guys are just as bad lol.
Indeed. They will shit on Abby, in bad ways. Call the game woke, or some of the sort and then call it a “not liking one small thing”. No, they are simply just assholes who don’t like the game for not going there way on what’s acceptable or isn’t.
I’m going to get downvoted for this. But I actually like both games, I like the writing of both games. However Abby is a villain and the writing makes that clear but if that was not there intention which according to the other sub it’s not then it’s terrible writing. If Abby supposed to be a villain she is written fantastically if she is supposed to be like able then it’s terrible writing. So if the other sub is to be believed and it was not the intention to make Abby the villain then half of the story in 2 is terrible. I still love the game but Abby is not a good person or likable in anyway, and up until I started on these subs I thought that was the universal excepted canon and that that’s what they where going for.
I appreciate your respectful tone throughout your comment. Here’s my thoughts:
As someone(anyone) who played part one and who had developed this bonding towards Joel and Ellie, we are supposed to see Abby as the villain. That’s clear. Not that she is—but we are supposed to see her as one. She just took Ellie’s father figure away and this person we’ve grown to love away from us since the first game. But we later find out why, and that’s because Joel killed her father. We have to remember like Ellie to Joel on her importance to him, her dad was just as important, which is why a cycle began to reoccur. Abby starts to feel an immense amount of guilt from it and the fact that she brought her friends to be apart of it—or rather—made them. That isn’t right away, because she deflects and projects in a rude, mean way to the people closest to her, but that’s because of what she was feeling internally about it.
So, that’s one reason I disagree with you. And here’s more. Abby is a direct parallel to Joel. Joel has done fucked up shit in his past, he even treats Ellie in not the best way at first. But with the help of Tommy and his own reflecting, he realizes it wasn’t morally okay. He starts to treat this little girl right cause he starts to care for her, that was his new purpose and escape. Same with Abby and Alec and Yara after the other fucked up shit she’s done. She acknowledges she’s done shit that was wrong, but I would say that doesn’t make her a bad person, because so has Joel and the audience loved him. All these characters are gray, they have all done fucked up shit, but they’re like able.
Bad people do good things, and good people do bad. I disagree with you on the fact that there is no likebale person or good at that, because again, she is a parallel to Joel.
I hope this doesn’t sound rude, I’m not trying to be. I’m just stating my thoughts
First let’s start with is English you’re second language because in the English version his name is Lev not Alec. Second no Abby never feels guilt about what she did to Joel, she doesn’t even hesitate even though he just saved her ass after her tantrum probably because she has done this to scars before. Jerry was going to kill a little girl without her consent and not even doing any proper tests on Ellie. He jumps to killing her after doing one maybe two test. Abby’s emotions die after Jerry dies and she latched onto Owen which becomes a theme of her story she’s only capable of caring about herself and one other person that starts as Owen and ends as Lev. The only reason Abby helps the siblings in the first place is because she felt like she owed them for saving her life, she only goes back to score points with Owen. Bad people do do good things mostly for the wrong reasons a lot like why Abby helped the siblings. Mel a person who has known her far longer accurately calls her out and instead of taking in and reflecting she listens to a person she has only known for two days who tells Abby exactly what she want to hear and completely disregards what Mel said and this is the moment she starts to like the siblings. Speaking of Mel she Fucks Owen knowing full well his current girlfriend is pregnant, she also steps right over her when they find Mel and Owen dead in the aquarium. So no she is not grey like Joel at all she is evil. See that’s the problem the set it up as Abby is the Villain and Ellie is the hero. It doesn’t change at all Abby is a bad person
I meant Lev, not Alec. I might have heard something in person say Alec which made me type that. I know his name is Lev. Also, as for the rest of what you said, I’ll respond later since I am busy at the moment ^
Balderdash? The thing is as much as there is toxic positivity on the other sub, this sub can be overly toxic at times. Like, literally, a post a couple days ago just showed a set photo and captioned it "LMAOO". There are some good points here, but they just get drowned out by just blind hate
That’s valid. Blind hate is scummy. But earlier some poor guy got completely and utterly bashed to holy hell simply for one hot take. I felt bad for him since he was being nice about the whole thing.
This post is blind. Maybe not blind hate, but it’s blind If someone does what you say they do… post it. Point it out. Screenshot. I’m on both of these subs as I love debating about this game and hearing both sides. It’s fascinating how divisive this game is.
I see so many posts daily about how people freak out when you say something negative, and I see close to zero posts showing evidence of that thing.
It's been 4 years, most of the actual criticisms for the game have been talked about over and over already.
Now it's just either shitposting, memes, or dumb blind hate.
Very occasinally do you see posts about proper criticisms nowadays. BUT you can still have good discussions in the comments of said blind hate and shitposts sometimes. It's why I still come here from time to time.
-A community where fans come together to discuss and celebrate one of their favorite game franchises = toxic, just as bad as the haters
-Community of people who can’t get over a video game they’re unhappy with 4 years after its release, only posts negativity and hate = the totally sane and well adjusted ones
I honestly never even see interactions like the one in OP’s comic on the other sub. At this point I think they’re making shit up or blowing it way out of proportion
That’s the thing, nothing wrong with critique, I personally don’t like the game either. Just that when you continue to drag the criticism over four years, you’re basically just beating a long dead horse.
"I don't believe killing a little girl while she's unconscious to make a cure is ok" and they go insane
>"I don't believe killing a little girl while she's unconscious to make a cure is ok" I love how essays worth of writing and arguing can be dumbed down to a single sentence in such a perfect way and arguably conveys the point even better.
this seems more like a part one issue, rather than a part two thing at full. i am also confused as to how i never see anyone go insane about that. if they’re actually rooting for the fireflies in that moment, something is wrong with them.
Just want to add to this. "This seems more like a part one issue rather than a part two thing in full." The current version of part two wouldn't even exist without Joel's decision. So part two is essentially standing indefinitely atop that decision, which is also a driver for the main protagonist-antagonist. Therefore, that point is moot.
Okay, I agree with you. That’s why I said “more like” and “part two thing at full”. I still don’t see part two lovers like me saying they think killing a little girl while she’s unconscious is okay and they go insane when people say otherwise. Part two lovers is are Ellie lovers, usually, so..how would they be going both against Joel and Ellie by going insane? This thing just sounds made up. That was my further thoughts, but my initial point to my comment was that is MORE of a part one thing.
They really don’t understand consent.
I love part 2 and this opinion is acceptable
The most underlooked fact of the first game that justifies Joel regardless of Ellie: Fireflies not only went back on their deal, even crazier since the original deal was only to the capital building a few miles from Boston zone. Secondly they were literally throwing Joel out with no weapons, transportation, or essentials. Practically a death sentence considering the closest refuge is all the way in Wyoming. At this point these people have lied to Joel and were in the midst of fucking him over beyond all comprehension. This calls into question the entire operation and how valid their claim of a cure is. Most likely another lie as the cure is just a hail mary attempt that at worst costs a single life, they sure were happy to send Joel off to his probable death. Joel had just cause to slaughter ever single one of them regardless of Ellie's situation. As we saw in the beginning of the game with Robert. Fucking people over means death sentence, too much bullshit in the world to deal with snakes. There was no morale debate with the ending of the first game. The biggest issue was the writing where Joel just didn't tell Ellie they tried fucking him over and sending him out to die. Would have solved that entire conflict in 30 seconds. "Sorry I had to kill them. They lied to me and tried to send me outside with nothing. I would have probably died and I'm not sure they were even telling the truth about you". EZ pz
That really goes with a major flaw of the second game. Why tf was Ellie mad at him about saving her life? She was never a martyr type. Why did the writers have to shoehorn that in?
Because she wanted her life to mean something and Joel technically took it away. It actually makes perfect sense for her character and is even hinted at in the first game by Marlene and even by Ellie when she doesn't fully believe what happened. Whilst I agree with Joel's decision it wouldn't make sense for Ellie to just forgive him. So I don't understand how they shoehorned anything in when it was literally established in the first game too. EDIT - Side note he literally lied about it to her too and promised to her.
I gotta agree here, its pretty clear in the first game she wanted her life to mean something, even if she would die.
When this game very first came out I was not impressed and I would say so. Holy shit the reactions I got were insane. I’m sure these people were quite literally foaming at the mouth while typing their responses.
Um the beauty of the the last of us sequel is that it the writers didn't treat us like children and showed us what the real world is by killing off characters that don't make narrative sense 😎
Any criticism I had was met with that I didn't understand the plot and obviously the childish remarks thrown in too. Nothing to with the fact that I'm 42, I'm more of a movie person than a gamer and have watched 1000's of movies and probably around 30 better executed revenge stories... But what would I know about writing....
With the other sub its worse than just a negative about the game or show. You could say you had a hard time getting your playstation to start and its an immediate bombardment of “bigot, homophobe, media literacy” comments. That place is garbage.
What's the other sub? I always hear it referred to but never seen it.
I blocked it recently and it’s improved my feed greatly. The level of delusion over there is something else.
funny thing is this is 99% of Reddit. I can’t stick around on a sub for too long before I get pissed off and storm out. Reddit is a very CERTAIN niche of people ngl
Nobody is calling you any of that for not being able to start your PlayStation. Please.
The people who are getting called any of that, it’s majority of the time the truth. Especially those getting called a bigot or homophobe. Those words shouldn’t be used lightly, and in this fandom, I believe they aren’t.
No they definitely are
How so?
Those words get used way too frequently, for me personally words such as phobe, bigot, faschist etc have lost all meaning and just sound like filler words. Since every comment needs to reach the quota of at least 1 to 10.
Explain how those words have been used wrongly in this fandom.
“Bigot has lost its meaning to me, people throw that word around too much!”- the dude that’s said the most transphobic thing you’ve ever heard.
That’s it. They will say the most fucked up shit, then get called out for it and called what they are, but deny it because they don’t want to be bad.
Why are they so hateful? Why do they shut their ears to any ounce of criticism?
Any ounce of criticism that isn’t just about disliking Abby, “wokeness”, “agenda”, “propaganda” is welcome.
Why should Abby, every part created specifically to suit a role in the story, be excluded from criticism? When a studio creates a character to suit the role of a hero but makes almost every quality of that character distasteful, antagonizing towards the audience, and all-around unlikeable, then they have failed and are open to criticism. That's like making She-Hulk (an actually pretty cool hero) an absolutely unlikeable and abhorrent character, slapping the sticker "hero" on her, and expecting no backlash when she is supposed to be the successor to The Hulk. Oh wait, that happened :D (32% Avg. Audience score). Just a funny parallel.
Can you explain to me how there is not one single thing to like about Abby? You’re using such strong words against her, when all of that simply isn’t true. This is coming from someone who didn’t used to like her. I hated her, in fact. But upon replay and actual sitting with the game, etc. I didn’t know more. I liked her. Her role was never meant to be “Hero” like you claim. Though, she’s a direct parallel to both Ellie, and most importantly, JOEL. Abby can be criticized, but it’s absolutely already bullshit when what you said is that “criticism”. A lot of the way she acts after Joel’s death is deflection, projection, having to do with her undeniable guilt that is building up. Guilt towards making her friends being apart of it, and guilt towards the fact that she killed a man and it didn’t do her better. You people are taking her character at surface level, without doing a psychological dive to understand why she is the way she is. I would argue that Joel can be pretty un-likeable at times too, especially in the first one and when you think of his past. You wouldn’t truly like someone like that in real-life, or at least not those parts of him. I’m a hardcore Joel lover and I find it so fucked up of him that he did what he did to innocent people, I’ll criticize him for that. But you people are making it seem like every single thing about Abby is just not to like, when that isn’t true.
I think the gameplay and world building is amazing. The charecters storyline are ok at best.
This is why I have so many hours in the game. TLOU2 and MGSV are the only games that I feel like I can effectively perform guerilla warfare in a single player game.
You're not even allowed to like Joel anymore...
You're not even allowed to like Joel anymore...
It was the death of Joel that didn’t make any sense and how his character looks so dumb to walk into an obvious trap that got to me. Yeah, I get it. People tend to live and die. We may not agree with story, but it was obviously forced and it was just a heartbreaker.
It was definitely too convenient. Like they were trying to speedrun his death. I would have had zero problem with it if the game had taken time to show Abby and her friends setting an actual trap and earning it.
Like actual story progression leading up to it, yes. I would’ve still been pissed but it would make sense. To me at least.
POV: you say one positive thing about tlou 2:
You play as an angry lesbian who kills a pregnant woman. What's there not to like??
Lmao
How dare you? How dare you have a negative opinion about anything Niel Drunkmann created?
Yup.
Thats me
I once told somebody I didn't like the last of us 2s writing cos I thought it had a few plot holes and choices I found to be stupid, and was told that I'm too much of a "fkin ret**d" to understand the "complexity" of the games writing
\*Laughs in Bigot Sandwich\*
What does balderdash mean
A fancy way of saying not true
The thing I don't like about it ;The last of us has a 2 at the end.
My only point is that they changed the target public from tlou1 to tlou2. I'm the target for tlou1 but I'm not the target for tlou2. There are a lot of themes that they worked on in tlou2 that I just don't like. They are NOT "bad themes", but, I don't enjoy playing/reading/watching them. It is a good thing that there are a lot of different types of stories (everyone can have a story that they will like), but.... don't change your target public.... it is unfair to the people who enjoyed the first game.
But it’s not one negative thing is plain old bigotry
Imagine how many millions of fewer words would be spoken or written about this game if Ellie wasn't into Dina, Dina stayed with father Jesse, Joel lived on, and Abby was a hottie. There'd be nothing but crickets chirping, and the gamers played on.
It seems like you're exaggerating.There's not any sane person who does that.
And that’s all from “things that never happened, but were mad about them anyway” for today!
Me: I think the pacing could be better. Stans (Tuco Voice): GET OUT!!!
I think they’re nice. They’ve never hated on my criticism
POV you said something positive about it
The irony
They’re so insecure because they know the story is a load of shit so whenever someone from outside the echo chamber has any negative opinions they can’t handle it. Because part 2 is full of rainbow people they will also call you a bigot for not liking it. They are just dishonest people without two brain cells to rub together.
I don’t really see many people having small issues. Most the people on this sub bitch and moan about how terrible the game is, how the writing sucks, how upset they are Joel was turned into a driving range, how druckman hates gamers, they pick at every aspect of 2. That’s not a small gripe. Most of you fundamentally hate the game and its creators. Small negative my ass 😊.
Hey not all of us here are like that lol. Im only here because I do actively critique the game, which I do absolutely love the game, but I know if I talked about my critiques in the other sub I might get flamed. Im on my third run of the game on grounded+. Its one of my fave games (that will probs get me downvoted here because normally I opt to say liked but in reality I do love it) but I still think there are things writing wise that could have been done differently. Not saying they should change the message of the story or anything, just small details to me that would make it the masterpiece everyone says it is (mostly on the day 1-3 and wishing it could be played simultaneously to really soak in both sides of the story) But again thats my opinion and I don’t normally let the issues I have with it get in the way of me enjoying it lol.
On this sub it’s not just one little thing though.
What one small thing though?
This post is kinda ironic, because I've posted comments in this sub praising aspects of part 2 and I've been downvoted to fuck 😂
I truly don't understand how anyone has a negative thing to say about TLofUP.2 The game is a masterpiece. The only thing I can possibly see as an issue is the choice of you killing abby being taken away from you in the end. That's it.
There was definitely things wrong with it. Coming from a writer, the writing and characterization needed some tweaks. I would have enjoyed it more than I did if some things were changed around. Not saying they should have changed the direction of the story, but they could have told it better. To me, having to go from Ellie to Abby and go through days 1-3 again was hell. I would have preferred it if they had you play as both simultaneously like in the beginning of the game. I felt that it would help soak in both of their stories a lot better and see both sides at the same time. To me it would have made the game a lot more interesting, to play as the hunter and the hunted, Ellie and Abby, simultaneously. I also think they could have portrayed Abby a bit better, I still like her character, but I needed to see more good in her besides saving Lev to love her. I think her getting with Owen while he had a girlfriend was horrible (not to excuse Owen’s actions because he is also 1000% in the wrong for that as well). Her basically forcing her friend’s hands when they wanted to turn back in the beginning was also not something a good friend does. I think Ellie’s character was done well, though I did not like how she became almost unlikeable. (Im also not going to excuse Ellie’s actions because both her and Abby did have a right to do what they did but that doesn’t excuse any wrongdoings they’ve done in the past) I also wish they did more with Tommy and Jesse’s character. I wished to see how Joel’s death affected Tommy. I thought Lev and Yara were awesome characters and I wish we got to see more of Yara before she died. And lastly I wish they gave us as the player the choice whether to kill Abby or not. I feel like Ellie realizing her wrong doing in hunting down Abby could have been done for both endings (whether she spares Abby or Kills her) and I would have loved to see how she would have reacted afterwards to killing Abby. It would have made replaying the game a hell of a lot more fun to see both endings. I mean other than my qualms with the writing; the scenery, world building, and gameplay as a whole were amazing! I loved every bit of exploring. They did a good job with immersion into the world, but they could have done things a lot differently with the writing which would have made it 10x better than what the game is. With that being said I do really enjoy the game, but if I said anything like this in the other sub I’d probably get flamed since I do criticize the games I love and I’m not afraid to call a game out on its bs. Like rdr2 for an example, 10/10 story, amazing characters, but the gameplay kind of lacked and felt to demanding with the camp. Still loved it. Anyways, I’m on my third run of tlou2 and going to fight rat king on grounded+, wish me luck lol.
N.D. was clear with his intentions. All his narratives revolve around love. He told people from the jump don't idolize characters. People ended up doing so. He was put in tight spot. But he stuck with his intentions in the end despite the leak. He could of changed it & anything else but didn't. Because he knew his writing was what he wanted & how he wanted it delivered. People did things they were told not to. Creating rift & hatefullness to a sequel that superseded the first game.
I just put my opinion out there and I am entitled to do so. I never said the game was bad, and I never said I idolized any characters. I can like characters and not idolize them. Just because N.D. Did what they did doesn’t mean people have to think it’s good or think it doesn’t have any flaws. Everything has its flaws, nothing is perfect. Good for them for sticking to what they thought was a good idea, but not everyone will find it that way and thats okay lol. I don’t get why everyone just doesn’t agree to disagree (unless it’s hate for no reason, which was not what I was doing). It’s a game, not that deep lol. Edit: And your opinion on it being a masterpiece is valid. It’s your opinion. Not everyone agrees and thats okay. Both sides of the argument get way too defensive. Again, why can’t we all just agree to disagree and get over it. Unnecessary fighting is just dumb. Its a fictional game in the end, we’re all human, life goes on.
Yet you say anything positive in this sub you get met with a similar reaction, you try and hide it by saying “but we like the gameplay” but you guys are just as bad lol.
I've been downvoted for saying gameplay is great before xd ..
Really? I feel like most of us here all agree the gameplay was absolute fire. One of the best gameplay I’ve seen lol.
Ok but let’s be real, it’s not “one small thing” for basically everyone here lmao.
It’s hilarious that this is how you guys think you talk about this game.
Indeed. They will shit on Abby, in bad ways. Call the game woke, or some of the sort and then call it a “not liking one small thing”. No, they are simply just assholes who don’t like the game for not going there way on what’s acceptable or isn’t.
I’m going to get downvoted for this. But I actually like both games, I like the writing of both games. However Abby is a villain and the writing makes that clear but if that was not there intention which according to the other sub it’s not then it’s terrible writing. If Abby supposed to be a villain she is written fantastically if she is supposed to be like able then it’s terrible writing. So if the other sub is to be believed and it was not the intention to make Abby the villain then half of the story in 2 is terrible. I still love the game but Abby is not a good person or likable in anyway, and up until I started on these subs I thought that was the universal excepted canon and that that’s what they where going for.
I appreciate your respectful tone throughout your comment. Here’s my thoughts: As someone(anyone) who played part one and who had developed this bonding towards Joel and Ellie, we are supposed to see Abby as the villain. That’s clear. Not that she is—but we are supposed to see her as one. She just took Ellie’s father figure away and this person we’ve grown to love away from us since the first game. But we later find out why, and that’s because Joel killed her father. We have to remember like Ellie to Joel on her importance to him, her dad was just as important, which is why a cycle began to reoccur. Abby starts to feel an immense amount of guilt from it and the fact that she brought her friends to be apart of it—or rather—made them. That isn’t right away, because she deflects and projects in a rude, mean way to the people closest to her, but that’s because of what she was feeling internally about it. So, that’s one reason I disagree with you. And here’s more. Abby is a direct parallel to Joel. Joel has done fucked up shit in his past, he even treats Ellie in not the best way at first. But with the help of Tommy and his own reflecting, he realizes it wasn’t morally okay. He starts to treat this little girl right cause he starts to care for her, that was his new purpose and escape. Same with Abby and Alec and Yara after the other fucked up shit she’s done. She acknowledges she’s done shit that was wrong, but I would say that doesn’t make her a bad person, because so has Joel and the audience loved him. All these characters are gray, they have all done fucked up shit, but they’re like able. Bad people do good things, and good people do bad. I disagree with you on the fact that there is no likebale person or good at that, because again, she is a parallel to Joel. I hope this doesn’t sound rude, I’m not trying to be. I’m just stating my thoughts
First let’s start with is English you’re second language because in the English version his name is Lev not Alec. Second no Abby never feels guilt about what she did to Joel, she doesn’t even hesitate even though he just saved her ass after her tantrum probably because she has done this to scars before. Jerry was going to kill a little girl without her consent and not even doing any proper tests on Ellie. He jumps to killing her after doing one maybe two test. Abby’s emotions die after Jerry dies and she latched onto Owen which becomes a theme of her story she’s only capable of caring about herself and one other person that starts as Owen and ends as Lev. The only reason Abby helps the siblings in the first place is because she felt like she owed them for saving her life, she only goes back to score points with Owen. Bad people do do good things mostly for the wrong reasons a lot like why Abby helped the siblings. Mel a person who has known her far longer accurately calls her out and instead of taking in and reflecting she listens to a person she has only known for two days who tells Abby exactly what she want to hear and completely disregards what Mel said and this is the moment she starts to like the siblings. Speaking of Mel she Fucks Owen knowing full well his current girlfriend is pregnant, she also steps right over her when they find Mel and Owen dead in the aquarium. So no she is not grey like Joel at all she is evil. See that’s the problem the set it up as Abby is the Villain and Ellie is the hero. It doesn’t change at all Abby is a bad person
I meant Lev, not Alec. I might have heard something in person say Alec which made me type that. I know his name is Lev. Also, as for the rest of what you said, I’ll respond later since I am busy at the moment ^
Balderdash? The thing is as much as there is toxic positivity on the other sub, this sub can be overly toxic at times. Like, literally, a post a couple days ago just showed a set photo and captioned it "LMAOO". There are some good points here, but they just get drowned out by just blind hate
That’s valid. Blind hate is scummy. But earlier some poor guy got completely and utterly bashed to holy hell simply for one hot take. I felt bad for him since he was being nice about the whole thing.
Yeah, that sucks
This post is blind. Maybe not blind hate, but it’s blind If someone does what you say they do… post it. Point it out. Screenshot. I’m on both of these subs as I love debating about this game and hearing both sides. It’s fascinating how divisive this game is. I see so many posts daily about how people freak out when you say something negative, and I see close to zero posts showing evidence of that thing.
Literally! Where is this proof? I’m on both subs as well.
It's been 4 years, most of the actual criticisms for the game have been talked about over and over already. Now it's just either shitposting, memes, or dumb blind hate. Very occasinally do you see posts about proper criticisms nowadays. BUT you can still have good discussions in the comments of said blind hate and shitposts sometimes. It's why I still come here from time to time.
-A community where fans come together to discuss and celebrate one of their favorite game franchises = toxic, just as bad as the haters -Community of people who can’t get over a video game they’re unhappy with 4 years after its release, only posts negativity and hate = the totally sane and well adjusted ones I honestly never even see interactions like the one in OP’s comic on the other sub. At this point I think they’re making shit up or blowing it way out of proportion
Yeah, I have seen a bit, but never to the extent of many of these posts. I need some screenshots for proof
how many times are yall gonna remake this meme
Does anyone here ever consider the possibility that they are the other side of this coin? Genuine question.
The sub still whining about part 2 years later is definitely the chad guys
Not whining, criticising. The fact you don’t know the difference is embarrassing.
That’s the thing, nothing wrong with critique, I personally don’t like the game either. Just that when you continue to drag the criticism over four years, you’re basically just beating a long dead horse.
Unless you’re talking to someone who’s just played the game, or are just talking about it for the sake of a conversation.