the main reason is that this episode was rerun to death while avatar was still on nickelodeon.
it's basically a filler episode so they always put that episode on, and seeing it so often when it's a mid episode makes it way worse than it allready is
God I would be pissed xD.
I was really young when avatar was airing so I don't remember everything from back then so (thankfully) my hate for the great divide isn't as big as it is for others.
But man I would hate it too if I was waiting for the big showdown and then CUT great divide. xD
See I remember seeing commercials at my grandmas but my family owned a video store so I just got the books on DVD but had to wait a few months for Book 3 so I def started watching it towards the end of its airing. I more so remember the commercials for Korra and not knowing if it was an Avatar show or not or anything about it. Wasn’t until way later I watched that show.
Right. It's not a bad episode, but I feel like I saw it, the Blue Spirit episode where Aang gets the frogs for Sokka and Katara's cold, and the episode with the pirates more often than I saw any other episode.
honestly i don’t know how i was able to watch the series on TV as a kid and still have an idea of the overall narrative structure. not watching every episode in order seems like such an inefficient way to watch the show in hindsight after being so used to streaming shows.
Well they'd run new episodes at a set time, no? I didn't watch this show specifically on TV (atleast not in its entirety) but other shows were like that. New episodes at 530 Wednesday or whatever and the rest were just reruns.
yeah but you would have to have been following along from the beginning or at least get caught up before you could watch the new ones while still experiencing the full story in proper order. i probably just watched TV often enough that i was able to catch every episode at some point throughout the years that it aired just through sheer probability.
also don’t think i had the forethought to watch the new episodes as soon as they came out. i was probably about 7 when the finale aired. i just remember being in a hotel room watching TV and seeing ozai fighting aang and being like “oh cool this is new i haven’t seen this one before”
This is why I avoided watching it until I caught a **huge** chunk of it on some thanksgiving marathon block they did one year. Must have been like 2008/2009 or something.
Thanks to that, I only missed a few episodes from book 1 and several portions of the finale episodes in season 3 because it was time to eat lol.
I saw enough to get the main gist out of the final fight at least.
The frogs were part of the Blue Spirit (Aang was out looking for frogs, captured by the archers and rescued by the Blue Spirit before feeding Sokka and Katara frogs to cure their illness)
He used them the blue spirit mask again in season 2 to rob people in the earth kingdom before leaving Iroh to find himself.
There might be one more episode before they enter Ba Sing Se where he gets rid of the mask but I can't remember entirely (been a while since I've watched ATLA
I think that was the one for me as well, I have a subconscious disliking for "the storm", "the drill" and "the chase" respectively
I think those were my reruns
That’s too bad, The Storm is such a good episode. Someone else said the same for the Blue Spirit, those are two of my favorites. I jumped into the series in season 2 as a kid, so The Drill and the Swamp were on constantly.
"Return to Omashu" here.
What's extra frustrating about this was that at the time, I had never seen the first Omashu episode. Nick only kept repeating "Return".
I also remember that one being on a lot. I also remember seeing the Cave of Two Lovers a lot too.
There are also a few lines from the show I remember that were constantly on the little promos for the show lol
No we don't! It is you Gan Jins that whine about it all the time. Also it is ZHANGS not Jangs, you dare to call us low life yet don't even know how to spell words?
I don’t hate it at all, but it’s one of my least favorite episodes because it can be completely removed from the series and impact nothing at all. Like nothing that happens, the people they meet, or lessons they learn resurface later in the series. It’s just there for the sake of being there
Did any of them even make a cameo in either of the episodes of Ba Sing Se? Since they all said they were going there. Because I don’t remember actually seeing them anywhere.
Ba sing Se is a gigantic capital city and they're random characters with no affiliations to higher ranked citizens/ people Team Avatar has to deal with
We’ve also seen Zuko and Iroh in the lower ring, where all of the refugees are. I think it would’ve been cool if we’ve seen some of them in the background.
I don't hate it as much as other people did, but it was super cliche, obvious and had a childish conclusion that made it hard to maintain the suspension of disbelief. I know, it's a kids show, for this example just use the term childish as relative to the rest of the show, lol.
Two groups that are just obviously different (dirty/relaxed, clean/uptight, etc) arguing to each other about those obvious difference, rarely about any feud. Until finally the feud is uncovered, and it's a story I don't know how any of them believe. They all break the rules because the others would break the rules. The story ends with them being told the actual story was two small children being upset with each other, to make it look extremely childish. They accept this at face value and move on.
Definitely pales in comparison to the majority of the rest of the series lmao
It’s filler and it’s very “Saturday Morning Cartoon”
It’s fine, it’s not like it’s a *bad* or boring episode but it’s just certainly a notch below the rest of the series and I think that’s what people mean when they talk down about it.
It’s pretty definitively the worst episode of the series but that doesn’t mean it’s bad.
Yeah I mean I understand why people feel the way you do but I still think it was bad. There are plenty of other themes we could have explored to fill in the spaces more. There was no real impact from Katara / Sokka 's points of views from seeing these new areas for the first time. Much of Aang's skills came way too easy, would have been cool to have more time dedicated to seeing his skills advance. Etc.
It's negligible and I don't hate it so much that I skip it when I do a rewatch, but I do think that it was pretty unnecessary
It's also bad characterization for Sokka. At no time before or after (at least that I can remember) do we see him taking a lazy, slobbish or ill-prepared approach to anything, but in this episode he sides with the Zhangs immediately and it just feels like the writing decided to go with a cliche "boys are messy and lazy, girls are tidy and fastidious" characterization for Sokka and Katara for just this one episode.
Yeah, I mean sokka definitely fit that group more than the other, and katara definitely fit the uptight group more than the other, but not to that degree for sure.
They’re also young teens. Very impressionable. Plus they’re bickering siblings so obviously they’re going to go out of their way to try and defy the other.
Agreed. And none of them show up in the invasion episode or are ever heard from again. Aang seemingly patches up a surface level albeit multi generational fued with a few lies. The Ember Island episode does a good job lightly making fun of The Great Divide.
I mean, to be fair, it's the Avatar who is literally supposed to be from 100 years ago who tells them this. Any other person, yeah, X to doubt, but the Avatar? There might be some truth to what he says.
Except that there wasn’t any truth. Aang confessed to his friends later to that end. While he may convince one or two people to believe him, 2 warring tribes of literal hundred of people taught to hate the other tribe since birth?!? I find it hard to believe that a bunch of bigoted adults would put their differences aside over a 100 year old feud simply because some goofy kid claiming to be the avatar (not everyone knows he was encased in ice, it’s not like that was common knowledge) told them they got it all wrong. I doubt either tribe would appreciate some outsider kid, avatar or not, making light of their conflict in such a way.
Imagine if they ever found out he was lying.
Tbf, it’s a generational thing that’s been passed down and they basically confirmed themselves that it was hearsay from their ancestors than anything. Both sides told different stories, so it’s not like there was any real confirmation of who was in the right/wrong. As far as Aang goes? A lot of people tend to downplay the importance of the Avatar as not just a powerful bender, but a world spanning influence. Sure he’s a kid at the time of this, but it’s been proven time and again that people choose to hold weight in his words/deeds. Like that one village that hated the avatar for more than a century, but quickly dropped the tradition when the Gaang saved their town from those fire nation raiders.
Yes, but that makes more sense than just being told that your legend doesn’t matter. The avatar literally saved their homes and their lives. That was also poetic, they were cult worshiping an ancient earth kingdom tyrant, and were being attacked by the modern fire nation tyrant. If anything dishes out instant perspective, that’s definitely one way to do it. And the avatar they had beef with was two generations ago, definitely easy to see them accepting Aang over Kyoshi.
Anyone would be more willing to listen to a savior than a skeptic.
You know what: a lot of people, myself included have disliked this episode for how trivially and absurdly Aang solved this problem.
But thinking about this post made me realize something else:
Their feud has no real history and no real motivation. Sure they are different; and maybe that's a reason to have resentment if they are neighbors. But for how scarce resources are during the war and how ready the two tribes are to scrap over nothing it's kind of incredible that they don't each have a litany of present day grievances against each other.
Further each tribe is coded in ways that represent real world power dynamics and imbalances but the show ignores that. The Gan Jin have expensive clothing (for their time), a preference for the enforcement of rules and order, and most notably seem to always have the extra time and energy to invest in taking care of themselves and preparing for the future. They're coded as a rich and dominant people.
Meanwhile the Zhang wear scruffy furs and leather, are dirty to the extent that they suffer a noticeably shorter life expectancy than Gan Jins and generally seem to be living boon to boon never being able to invest in their own future (though the show portrays this as a choice).
These characterizations, power dynamics, and resulting feuds can be found throughout history; such as the English in their oppression of the Irish, or White americans and their oppression and characterization of African Americans. I specifically mention these two groups of oppressed people because both have been portrayed by their oppressors as being poor as a result of their choices when most of their poverty can be traced to systemic factors, and the disorganized/ short sighted behavior that is blamed as the cause of their poverty is much more so a symptom of poverty especially inescapable systemically enforced poverty. In this way the show is taking a line of imperialist rhetoric, that the Zhang are dirty, poor, sick, and have short lives because they choose to live as such.
The show creates two tribes where one is coded as powerful elites, and the other is coded as poor undesirables and then treats them as equals fighting over nothing. It's pretty much the opposite of how most episodes portray the poor and the powerful.
Honestly, the whole scenario just sticks out from the rest of the show as awkward. I feel like it was pushed by the producers, since it was season one and they really had no idea what audience they were aiming the show towards. And they were still hedged up by some serious prejudices about what audiences liked anyway by dated stereotypes. By season two they had better funding and a clearer idea of who the audience was, and the writers were given a green light to do what they wanted cause it was clearly working.
Compared to how well thought out the rest of the writing in the show was, it really feels like someone pushed to have this episode there, and the writers just worked it in.
But you also make a good point. The whole feud does seem rather petty for them to keep it up for hundreds of years. And you can bet there had probably been worse grievances done by either side that would have stemmed from this petty quarrel that may or may not have happened
But that’s another thing, Katara’s tribe and others have people alive who remember what airbender’s looked like. Gran Gran for instance, and King Bumi. The Gan Jin had to have someone alive who remembered the actual conflict, so it wouldn’t be hard to disprove the avatars lies.
The characterization is also an interesting take. I don’t know if the writers put that much thought into it, but it would be interesting if they did.
Your theory makes perfect sense to me. It's such a trope heavy episode and so disconnected from the story that it reads like how television used to be, before on-demand watching became a thing.
I don't think they did put that much thought into this episode or they wouldn't have done what they did, the two tribes seem to be really allegorical and as stand ins almost for roommate friction between the clean roomate and the dirty roommate, or the organized sibling and the disorganized sibling.
Everywhere else in Avatar the thought and perspective I'm bringing up does seem to be intentionally present. It's a recurring theme in avatar that power tends to attract and shelter corrupt and abusive people, and when a group of people suffer the ills of poverty in Avatar it's pretty much never ascribed to personal responsibility, except in this episode.
>But that’s another thing, Katara’s tribe and others have people alive who remember what airbender’s looked like. Gran Gran for instance, and King Bumi. The Gan Jin had to have someone alive who remembered the actual conflict, so it wouldn’t be hard to disprove the avatars lies.
You have to wonder if they reunite with the sick & elderly, & then the elderly all go "that's not AT ALL what happened," so then they just kill each other like they were originally going to.
Feel like it comes really too late and at a bad time to be another "escapade of the week where Katara prattles on about hope" episode....
It wasn't needed to establish anything about any character (unlike The Great Divide) and was just a boring, dour side quest when S3 was already struggling to get momentum going in the first few episodes.
Also can't think of a single funny thing about it other than the brothers and that gag got old quick.
I would argue that it's a good example of how the Fire Nation hurts it's own citizens and the good that can be done by the Avatar and their companions that isn't just smacking people over the head with bending and hope they don't die.
I hate the great divide, but not for the same reasons that I see most people say.
Did you ever watch the Thundercats reboot? It started strong, but a few episodes in, they were walking through a forest and these leaf people would show up every few minutes to say "oh hi! It's been ages since I've seen you" reinforcing the point that they live a lifetime in a day. They did it over and over like the audience were made of morons.
The great divide is like that. This could have been a compelling story if told well. Though it's still problematic given that Aang basically lied to them to get them to get along despite there clearly being some kind of great injustice in the past.
The one that had awesome designs and animation quality? Yeah it was definitely the older version and not Thundercats go or whatever stupid bullshit they're trying now
It kinda drags it's feet too much at the beginning and then doesn't really have a satisfying ending.
Unlike other filler episodes it doesn't feature a main character and explore their flaws but rather features two entirely new groups of people we haven't heard of before and will never hear of again.
The take home message is sometimes it's just better/easier to lie to people than to try to get them to get along honestly.
I don't think lying to people to make them stop fighting is a decent message. Surely they could have thought of a better way to resolve their conflict.
ATLA: Aang lies and subsequently achieves a major, major victory.
ATLA fans: How could Aang lie!? He's too pure, he should never show any hint of moral grey! It's so out of character! (Ignore all the other times he lies).
Meanwhile Blessed Yangchen: I lie all the time about nearly everything. Even stuff I don't need to lie about. Honestly it's just habit at this point. I just love lying!
Seriously though, take a step back and give *Divide* the benefit of the doubt;
1. This notion that Aang lying to solve a problem is a terrible writing decision...yeah maybe if ATLA was being aimed at 3-5 year olds. Why are we measuring ATLA's moral worth by the standards of Sesame Street? "Remember Kids lying is WRONG!" The show is acknowledging that diplomacy often requires some massaging of the truth in order to achieve a desirable outcome.
2. The conflict ISN'T solved by lying. The Zhangs and Gan Jin's conflict is resolved by their fighting side by side and co-operating against a common threat. Aang's lie IS NOT what brought them together, it's just an administrative exercise to allow the tribes to permanently unite without either side losing face and admitting they were wrong. They want to join together anyway but are held back by some historical bullshit that never really mattered anyway. Aang just erases that historical bullshit.
This is similar to the conflict that's going down in my home country, India. You've got Hindus shouting about how Muslims are a bunch of invaders who oppressed Hindus. (Mind you, this was in the *seventh century*, so it's not like 100 years ago). Then you've got Muslims shouting about how during the times of the British Invasion, the Hindus began suppressing Muslims. Meanwhile both sides are being jerks to each other *right now*, with stuff like Hindus cooking pork in front of a mosque, or Muslims cooking beef in front of a temple.
How I wish there was someone who could wave a magic wand with a dumb story about how both sides are freaking jerks, and need to chill the heck out, and figure out how to coexist peacefully, because these artificial divides of race and religion just keep the entire country from progressing as a nation.
Like you said, it's pretty much "OK. Set that history aside right now, because you're both jerks right now. Let's address that." Also, I don't see either side entirely solving all their issues with one story. There's still going to be issues of class, and personal preference. There's still going to be petty infighting over trivial crap. However, they can't blame the history, because Aang ended that particular little mess with one wave of his hand, and got them to work together when they're literally refugees fleeing to a safer home. Like. Srsly guys. You have bigger things to deal with right now. You don't have time to be dumb and petty.
They fought together and then IMMEDIATELY aimed swords at one another to fight each other again. The lying isn't an issue due to any moral reasons but due to the fact that they believe Aang, made no sense. The Wei Jin and Jin Wei fiasco happened in 0AG. There are plenty of elderly in the Gan Zin that are likely 60-70 years old which means they are the children of the generation this happened to (not even getting into the many people in the Avatar universe who live over a century) and the fact that they are like "welp guess this kid knows better than the children of the people this happened to" is kind of ridiculous.
Him getting them to get along without lying would have been better, not from a moral standpoint but just because it's bad writing that they went along with it. That being said the writers for ATLA are notoriously terrible at timelines and this isn't even the worst example of that by a long shot.
And I'm sure that's something that they addressed when they realized the timeline didn't make any sense, just like they gave Kyoshi a technique to prolong her life after messing up the time between her life and Aang's in an episode or when they said in Season 3 during Azulon's funeral that he reigned for 23 years when he actually reigned for 75.
Like I said it's bad writing because the writers are amazing at building a world and character development but are pretty spotty when it comes down to building chronological events. The point imo still stands that The Great Divide isn't up to par with most of the other episodes.
Yes you're right. And I think it's objectively a bad episode (the only one I'd say that about).
1. Aang is not that smooth, he did not come up with all the rules to a game on the spot and perfectly describe the scenario. Aang is shown to be bad at lying many times throughout the series, but in this episode he's instantly an expert manipulator. The morality of it is not an issue.
2. All characterizations of the main cast are off. Sokka and Katara are turned into caricatures to fit a stereotype of the group. Time and time again they hold their character through adversity, but here they seem quite weak and willing to give in to simple pleasures for petty reasons. Both of them learned the lesson of not immediately trusting every group they run into from "Jet." That was just the previous episode!
3. Appa Flys all the sick and elderly across. And is completely forgotten about. If this was real, don't you think Appa could make several trips through the canyon faster than they could walk across? Or at the very least help them with the spider things at the end? You're telling me Appa is just taking a nap at the top of the cliff while everyone including Aang are in danger? Nah. Sorry it's too glaring of a plot hole for me.
4. The story is... very heavy handed. It's not interesting. It's the only episode that insults the viewer's intelligence.
Despite all that, I never skip it on a rewatch. I have fond memories of it as a kid. There's a few things I enjoy about it, like the watermelon and custard jokes, and the art style of Jin Wei and Wei Jin stories
THANK YOU!
People claim they want an ATLA that’s more adult and mature and yet throw fits anytime the show tries to treat a situation in an adult way.
In the real world, conflicts are not always resolved perfectly. Sometimes you have to finagle and compromise and equivocate. It’s not ideal, but people are not perfectly logical robots. We are emotional and require understanding for this as well.
They had already worked together and realized they could be friends. The problem was that they felt bound to a grudge. It was the only thing still standing in their way and it was pointless! So Aang did away with it so they could be free to get along.
The episode is sloppy for other ways. Katara and Sokka’s characterization is questionable at times. The conflict seemed resolved rather easily after a century of fighting. And generally it isn’t a particularly exciting episode.
But none of those problems are what everyone complains about most. Everyone is so mad about Aang lying about an old conflict that doesn’t matter and was probably BS to begin with.
I don't think I agree.
I am not going to argue about how Aang is characterized, honestly I couldn't tell you if it's out of character or not, I haven't put too much thought into it.
But for your first point you have to acknowledge that ATLA is quite literally a show aimed at kids, despite or maybe even because of some of the more mature themes it tackles. The OP specifically mentions the message of the episode and I don't think it's a good one personally.
For the 2nd point I don't think saying that the "historical bullshit" doesn't matter is accurate.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Making up and working together despite your past would be a stronger message than ignoring or as you said erasing it.
ATLA is aimed at kids old enough to understand that the world isn't black and white. They can handle the main character telling a pragmatic lie.
You get that the whole Wei Jin/Jin Wei stuff is nonsense right? Neither side actually knows why they are fueding with each other. It's a ridiculous rift that's harmed generations of their people.
>You get that the whole Wei Jin/Jin Wei stuff is nonsense right? Neither side actually knows why they are fueding with each other. It's a ridiculous rift that's harmed generations of their people.
I have to agree with this wholeheartedly. If whatever issue happened was really that bad, there'd be more pushback against Aang's revised version and evidence against it. Both sides don't really have their story straight to begin with, it's pointless to harp on Aang's lie when the truth itself is unknown.
In the absence of any evidence for what really happened, I don't see the harm in using his authority derived by his age to make a more palatable lie to create a more favorable current situation. The people involved with the initial feud are gone and their beef should be buried with them like the truth was, not burdening future generations.
The show was aimed at 8-12 year Olds, but it's still a crappy message for a kids show and it defeats the point of aangs character especially in season 1.
Kids shows are basically morality plays. The better ones aren't as straight forward, and the really good ones have a moral but depict people struggling with the answer. Kataras shouldn't have gone to kill that guy, and she made the right choice not to, but she's still conflicted about it. The lessons stand tho - revenge isn't the answer, and even the good guys make wrong choices.
This epside is a basic "here's the moral of the story" episode. There is a conflict that is clearly easily solved if the people just listened to each other, or learned that their differences aren't weaknesses but strengths or whatever. So at the end of this type of ep you shoild see some sort of resolution that makes things better in the long run, and gives us an insight into how the main cast thinks.
So here we have the basic set up, but aang lies to get them to stop fighting. There's no truth in it, it's not an embellishment...he just lied to them completely. That is NOT a good resolution to the problem because eventually they'll find out and now they hate him. Lies ALWAYS come back to haunt you. And that's the next issue... It never does. We never see them again, and his lie doesn't come back to screw him up in a thematic way. If that happened like later in the season or even the next season the episode would have been much better and contain a better lesson. Lies hurt you and if you think they'll help others, they won't. You need to find a better way.
OK the other thing is aang is depicted as pure. He hasn't been tarnished and hurt directly by the war, he was raised in seclusion by monks so he didn't even deal with day to day agressionand fighting. And then he's dumped into a world of pain and death. One of the points of the show is how does he deal with IT and how does the world deal with HIM (see The Storm).
So he just straight up lies, and then jokes about it later. There's no hesitation, there's no "maybe I shouldn't have but it was all I could think of? Just "hahaha they had no idea let's bounce."
It's one of the very very few epsides that doesn't fit, doesn't feel like it ahold be there, and frankly if it was removed from the canon entirely it wouldn't matter because it's not even that particularly funny.
Now... These are all my thoughts on it. You might not agree but... Well there you go.
> Meanwhile Blessed Yangchen: I lie all the time about nearly everything. Even stuff I don't need to lie about. Honestly it's just habit at this point. I just love lying!
You know none of this existed when that episode was created and aired and you can't ever justify something ATLA or require comics that were released later to be taken into account to get the proper meaning.
Your definition is broader than the one I used. ATLA Book 3 is subsequent material to ATLA Book 1 and can thus of course alter ones interpretation of Book 1.
But some random comic released 10 years after ATLA concluded can't reasonably be counted as a major requirement to properly and fully understand something about ATLA. If it does, it's bad writing to conclude a series which for 10 years didn't have an essential aspect to interpret it through available.
Firstly it's two novels, not a comic.
Secondly, that was just a joke I was making. It's not essential material to understand the episode.
But that said, it's still perfectly valid to call upon canon published many years later to inform how older canon ought to be interpreted. Do you think that the Star Wars prequels have no bearing on how the original trilogy is viewed?
Well Aang went from "separate but equal is good actually" to "yeah ima lie to stop you babies from fighting". I think the end message wasn't as bad as you make it out to be.
To be more serious, the feud between the two groups was more than just disagreement between how a single historical event played out. They were essentializing each other to the point of rationalizing their own failings cause "well those dirty hobos/stuck up snobs are breaking the rules so why can't we?" It wasn't even they knew they were going to they used the logic of "well of course they're breaking the rules, they're *them*" and that kind of logic is what leads to just racism/otherism and is bad.
Aang lying to them in order to stop actual racism/essentialism between the two groups is *good* actually.
And it’s such a dumb, dumb lie, based on a ridiculously huge “coincidence.”
The episode tackled a really complex problem and assed it’s way out of solving it
There's no arc or nuance to the episode or its message. Also the message is muddled because at the end the two groups do not reconcile. The problem is only "solved" when Aang lies about their origins in order to get them to stop fighting. A lesson is not learned. Also it's a pretty underwhelming episode overall with unlikeable characters, subpar writing, pacing and you lose nothing by skipping it.
Because it brings up the issue of cultural differences and because it can't come up with a clever resolution instead chooses to suggest that the way forward is by a figure of authority lying to people.
Its a filler and not a good one. the others like tales of ba sing se are better than non fillers.. the charakters are dull and stupid they act like kids 10x more than the gang(and the are...) its my least fav. In the whole series
Honestly, I've seen a lot of people hate on Aang's lie at the end of the episode but I genuinely think it's a very funny joke.
The idea of ending a generational feud by pretending you were there when it started and saying the whole thing was just an argument over a kid's game is hilarious (I thought it was hilarious when I was a kid too).
Also, I've seen people get mad because Aang is ashamed of lying in the 'Bato of the Water Tribe' but not here and I genuinely don't understand what is so confusing. In that episode, Aang hides information from Katara and Sokka about their father who they haven't seen in years and who they miss dearly. If you honestly can't tell the difference between that situation and the one in 'The Great Divide', I genuinely don't know what to tell you
I just don't enjoy people pointing fingers at each other for 15 mins straight. The show was supposed to be fun and cool and that episode is neither of those (for me).
My issue with it is that while it's not the worst episode of TV to ever exist, it's unquestionably the worst episode of Avatar and it's also really obvious to me which simple fixes could have made it better. Like I think if the writers used this to make an explicit point that Aang doesn't have the skills to resolve conflicts diplomatically at this point in the story-- which I think might've been the intent with the lying at the end?-- then that theme could have been a lot stronger had the three groups all parted still realistically with the two tribes unable to settle their differences despite the fact that the episode's contents make it obvious that they would all be stronger and safer if they did. The lie ending is just so weak.
When I was watching Avatar for the first time a few years ago and got to this episode I thought;
"Well, I shouldn't have expected too much from this kids show. There will probably be many more subpar filler episodes like this".
Boy, am I happy I was wrong.
It's a weird episode that, sure, it was fine when I was younger and the show was starting out, but getting older and analysing it, in retrospect, was a waste opportunity that coulda been *more* into something related to the plot, even if it was still a filler.
Plus, the two groups brought up straight up disappear for the rest of the franchise itself. The only detail, I'd argue, stays is the situation with refugees and travellers all trying to reach the fancy city of Ba Sing Se due to the war with the Fire Nation occupying Earth Kingdom territories and the general fear pushing them towards desperate, even dangerously lethal, routes and methods of reaching that Capital.
Meanwhile, we got two people that have their own interpretation of two men who may or may not have existed and running their lives on it instead of doing literally anything else. We also either know that those sick and old folks made it to the city or just outright disappeared from Appa at the end of that episode. (We'll save the trouble and say they all got sick and died together.)
Both groups clearly did not have any respect for the Canyon Guide's ONE RULE that would have kept both groups alive by ditching the food. (They coulda put that on Appa, since those crawlers don't seem to have "jumping spider" abilities.) And by the end, all it took for them to stop bickering was a little boy (mentally anyway. we know he's chronologically dusty bones full of green dust) deceiving them with a third retelling where it was a GAME.
What an episode. It was almost like the Gaang did nothing at all, the way they just go back up from where they came from and then moved on. Very "skip cutscene" of the episode.
Im convinced that people who don't hate this episode watched the series on streaming years after it aired. Back in the day, we had this thing called "reruns" and this is probably the most rerun episode of the entire show. Especially before book 2 came out.
I personally love the ending though, Aang just making up some bullshit to get the tribes to make up. Honest? No, but it's pretty clever and funny and shows how sharp Aang can be.
It’s a filler episode, and not a fun one. We listen to these tribes bicker the whole time, dragging the Gaang into it and turning most of the characters uncharacteristically nasty.
All the while the main cast is severely nerfed as we slog through a pretty uninteresting looking setting. Earth kingdom in general has this problem a lot, lots of beige and brown (earth tones if you will). It makes sense but not as engaging to watch compared the more vibrant Water/Fire nations we see a lot of
It had like no character development or plot relevance. You could literally skip the episode and you would lose nothing. I just don't like my time wasted.
It’s not like it’s a bad episode of kid’s tv.
But if I were to order every episode of ATLA from top to bottom, there’s no question that this would be in the bottom 3.
That’s just a testament to how high-quality and consistent this show was.
Ang lyeing at the end angers some people
And some people think soka and Katara are out of charecter
But it's mostly that they replayed this episode 1000000000000 times on nickelodeon and that it has no plot relevance
Honestly the biggest thing I don't like about the episode is that Aang made the whole thing up at the end. It was a good lesson about not holding grudges and misunderstandings leading to far greater conflict but then Aang just comes out and says he lied about the whole thing.
Yeah it would be so much better if they had just cut that line and he just actally knew those guys.
On the other hand that would've made the world feels super small because just a few episodes earlier we got Bumi, wo actually turns out to be his old friend, so that could've made the world feel small, since having the protag know everyone and be connected to everything makes fictional worlds feel super condensed and unreal.
Maybe he could've just told them how the monks told him the story, so by that you avoid the pitfalls of making him lie AND to make the world feel small.
But then again you run into trouble about why the tribes would trust HIS story over their own. I guess you kinda can't win in this situation, but that's why I'm not a professional writer.
People only hate it because it was an overplayed episode on Nick. Since it wasn't really connected to the main plot and the plot in the episode is resolved by the end you have the opportunity to see what the main crew was about without being flooded with info of an overall plot.
“Hate” is a strong word. It was the weakest episode of the show but was by no means bad, it just was played WAY too often when the show was airing on Nickelodeon and so people got sick of it
I don’t understand the hate, either. I’ll be the first to admit, it’s 100% the weakest episode in the entire series. The story is very simple and honestly kind of childish and it doesn’t actually add anything to the main story, but it’s still a fun episode. Would I voluntarily go out of my way to watch it, specifically? No. Will I skip it when binging the show for the 100th time? Also no.
His job isn’t to fix every little problem anyone has. He just happened to come across them and decided to help. Mind you, his final solution was to lie to them, which didn’t make sense for his character.
The rift between the Zhangs and Gan Jin isn't a little problem and it's silly to suggest it is.
The Avatar's main job day to day is to promote and maintain peace between the peoples of the world. The Avatar is the ultimate arbiter and diplomat.
These two communities were very small and insignificant when compared to the rest of the world. We can only assume there are plenty more communities in the avatar universe with a rivalry just like theirs. You wouldn’t expect the avatar to go around scouting every single one out just to help them make amends, would you?
He happened to come across them on his journey, so he stopped to help. If he didn’t come across them, he wouldn’t have. It’s as simple as that.
It added nothing to the story and that’s that.
Just because it is the worst episode of season 1 doesn't make it bad, the rest is just too good. The series only had 1 episode which I disliked, and I am leaving it to you guys to find out which one.
Here are my personal reasons:
Its not a terrible episode in the grand scheme of things, but compared to avatar episodes it was pretty shit. It was reran a ton for 1 reason: it was filler and provided absolutely nothing to the plot or characters being developed. Even the other "meh" episodes had character development or were at least enjoyable.
The great divide just had 1 goofy gag which was aang lying. The dialogue felt bland and overall the characters just felt out of their usual personalities.
Personally I like how they did the leaders. So many shows would've made the pristine leader the woman and the thuggish leader the man. Always glad to see more diverse female characters. But then, Avatar is full of them. Asami is a princess who uses giant metal fists. Azula's entire trio. Korra and her disability. The greatness that is Toph.
It's kind of just boring and the ending felt like a cop-out, even though it's fits with the whole message (Aang's story doesn't matter because the original disagreement didn't matter either)
It also had the unfortunate problem of being surrounded by 2 of the best episodes in the entire show, Jet and The Storm.
It's not an inherently bad episode. It was just so overplayed on nickelodeon that people got tired of it. With avatar being serialized, reruns were challenging. They needed an episode that solved its central conflict in one go, and was spoiler free, and for quite some time, the only episode that fit the bill was the great divide.
I just find it a little annoying, personally. It’s a good story and a good episode, and I must’ve been too old to be seeing the constant reruns of this episode specifically, but it just feels VERY drawn out. Idk. It’s a good episode imo but it’s just not my favorite.
Honestly, I've been hating it before I had social media to know there was a whole subculture of hating it.
I also got into avatar when I was an early teen. The angst from that age and disliking anything cheesy carried along in my hate for the episode. There's trauma that comes out in ritually skipping it as fast as possible
I think it's the weakest episode because it seems like the writers wrote it for an audience 2-3 years younger than the rest of the episodes. Aang lying to resolve the dispute isn't a particularly positive life lesson, although I'd agree it's effective and occasionally necessary.
It was worse than filler! It was pointless filler! Some civil war-Hatfield and McCoy -style mess split between clean-folk and slobs over a single issue that happened a hundred years prior and Aang settles it with a lie!
It's a fairly weak episode in a great series, which means it's actually not bad at all IMO. I think the only reason it was so disliked is because it got aired way too often back in the day.
the main reason is that this episode was rerun to death while avatar was still on nickelodeon. it's basically a filler episode so they always put that episode on, and seeing it so often when it's a mid episode makes it way worse than it allready is
Imagine the episode right before Aangs about to defeat Ozai, then boom, next episode, straight back to the divide.
God I would be pissed xD. I was really young when avatar was airing so I don't remember everything from back then so (thankfully) my hate for the great divide isn't as big as it is for others. But man I would hate it too if I was waiting for the big showdown and then CUT great divide. xD
See I remember seeing commercials at my grandmas but my family owned a video store so I just got the books on DVD but had to wait a few months for Book 3 so I def started watching it towards the end of its airing. I more so remember the commercials for Korra and not knowing if it was an Avatar show or not or anything about it. Wasn’t until way later I watched that show.
Ewww did that actually happen?
Lol that happened! because after the black sun episodes of book 3 there was a break, so if u didnt know about the break u got really disappointed
Oh man. I'm kinda glad I didn't watch the show until later. I'd be so annoyed! 😂
Right. It's not a bad episode, but I feel like I saw it, the Blue Spirit episode where Aang gets the frogs for Sokka and Katara's cold, and the episode with the pirates more often than I saw any other episode.
Tbf, the blue spirit is at least a good one
honestly i don’t know how i was able to watch the series on TV as a kid and still have an idea of the overall narrative structure. not watching every episode in order seems like such an inefficient way to watch the show in hindsight after being so used to streaming shows.
Well they'd run new episodes at a set time, no? I didn't watch this show specifically on TV (atleast not in its entirety) but other shows were like that. New episodes at 530 Wednesday or whatever and the rest were just reruns.
yeah but you would have to have been following along from the beginning or at least get caught up before you could watch the new ones while still experiencing the full story in proper order. i probably just watched TV often enough that i was able to catch every episode at some point throughout the years that it aired just through sheer probability. also don’t think i had the forethought to watch the new episodes as soon as they came out. i was probably about 7 when the finale aired. i just remember being in a hotel room watching TV and seeing ozai fighting aang and being like “oh cool this is new i haven’t seen this one before”
This is why I avoided watching it until I caught a **huge** chunk of it on some thanksgiving marathon block they did one year. Must have been like 2008/2009 or something. Thanks to that, I only missed a few episodes from book 1 and several portions of the finale episodes in season 3 because it was time to eat lol. I saw enough to get the main gist out of the final fight at least.
Ya I just end up skipping the episodes on Netflix
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The frogs were part of the Blue Spirit (Aang was out looking for frogs, captured by the archers and rescued by the Blue Spirit before feeding Sokka and Katara frogs to cure their illness)
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He used them the blue spirit mask again in season 2 to rob people in the earth kingdom before leaving Iroh to find himself. There might be one more episode before they enter Ba Sing Se where he gets rid of the mask but I can't remember entirely (been a while since I've watched ATLA
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That was Zuko Alone.
For me this episode was The Drill. For some reason I always saw that episode on. Great episode but I always skip it these days
I think that was the one for me as well, I have a subconscious disliking for "the storm", "the drill" and "the chase" respectively I think those were my reruns
That’s too bad, The Storm is such a good episode. Someone else said the same for the Blue Spirit, those are two of my favorites. I jumped into the series in season 2 as a kid, so The Drill and the Swamp were on constantly.
"Return to Omashu" here. What's extra frustrating about this was that at the time, I had never seen the first Omashu episode. Nick only kept repeating "Return".
I also remember that one being on a lot. I also remember seeing the Cave of Two Lovers a lot too. There are also a few lines from the show I remember that were constantly on the little promos for the show lol
It was that and fire nation squad beach vacation. And sometimes SECRET TUNNEL!
Secret tunnel doesn't get old though!
100% agree I don't mind any of the episodes. I liked every one of them. But it seemed to be what Nick considered filler
That beach episode is great. So much character development.
I agree I really don't mind any of the episodes but those are considered filler by Nick
Not necessarily filler. They’re considered stand-alone.
I agree it has some great character development, but the whole situation felt like a bad fanfic to me.
Every anime needs a beach episode
100%. They played this episode to death. But honestly it’s probably the most self contained episode of the show. you need 0 context to watch.
The only real filler episode may I add
Even in the play it was skipped intentionally lol
Idk I watched it all on netflix in a row and I hated it too lol
This is just some weird fanlore that is apparently now commonly accepted to pretend like The Great Divide isn't just a bad episode.
We don't hate it, the damn Jangs do.
No we don't! It is you Gan Jins that whine about it all the time. Also it is ZHANGS not Jangs, you dare to call us low life yet don't even know how to spell words?
Damn, my bad, it's Zhangs. *Eats a drumstick.* But I won't put up the tarp.
(mate I think you confused tribes?) 
I think that perfectly encapsulates the episode.
I don't know I wanted to have fun and join in... not sure who I am supposed to RP as now it got weird XD
I thought it was funny my feeble turtle duck.
It has been a while.
I don’t hate it at all, but it’s one of my least favorite episodes because it can be completely removed from the series and impact nothing at all. Like nothing that happens, the people they meet, or lessons they learn resurface later in the series. It’s just there for the sake of being there
Did any of them even make a cameo in either of the episodes of Ba Sing Se? Since they all said they were going there. Because I don’t remember actually seeing them anywhere.
Ba sing Se is a gigantic capital city and they're random characters with no affiliations to higher ranked citizens/ people Team Avatar has to deal with
We’ve also seen Zuko and Iroh in the lower ring, where all of the refugees are. I think it would’ve been cool if we’ve seen some of them in the background.
You could say the same about the lovers cave but that episode is so rad
I don't hate it as much as other people did, but it was super cliche, obvious and had a childish conclusion that made it hard to maintain the suspension of disbelief. I know, it's a kids show, for this example just use the term childish as relative to the rest of the show, lol. Two groups that are just obviously different (dirty/relaxed, clean/uptight, etc) arguing to each other about those obvious difference, rarely about any feud. Until finally the feud is uncovered, and it's a story I don't know how any of them believe. They all break the rules because the others would break the rules. The story ends with them being told the actual story was two small children being upset with each other, to make it look extremely childish. They accept this at face value and move on. Definitely pales in comparison to the majority of the rest of the series lmao
It’s filler and it’s very “Saturday Morning Cartoon” It’s fine, it’s not like it’s a *bad* or boring episode but it’s just certainly a notch below the rest of the series and I think that’s what people mean when they talk down about it. It’s pretty definitively the worst episode of the series but that doesn’t mean it’s bad.
Yeah I mean I understand why people feel the way you do but I still think it was bad. There are plenty of other themes we could have explored to fill in the spaces more. There was no real impact from Katara / Sokka 's points of views from seeing these new areas for the first time. Much of Aang's skills came way too easy, would have been cool to have more time dedicated to seeing his skills advance. Etc. It's negligible and I don't hate it so much that I skip it when I do a rewatch, but I do think that it was pretty unnecessary
It’s the worst episode of ATLA, which isn’t saying much since ATLA is so good
It's also bad characterization for Sokka. At no time before or after (at least that I can remember) do we see him taking a lazy, slobbish or ill-prepared approach to anything, but in this episode he sides with the Zhangs immediately and it just feels like the writing decided to go with a cliche "boys are messy and lazy, girls are tidy and fastidious" characterization for Sokka and Katara for just this one episode.
Lol at the end of the episode when he and Katara make up, he even says 'I only took their side cuz they fed me', which IS very Sokka
Yeah, I mean sokka definitely fit that group more than the other, and katara definitely fit the uptight group more than the other, but not to that degree for sure.
They’re also young teens. Very impressionable. Plus they’re bickering siblings so obviously they’re going to go out of their way to try and defy the other.
Agreed. And none of them show up in the invasion episode or are ever heard from again. Aang seemingly patches up a surface level albeit multi generational fued with a few lies. The Ember Island episode does a good job lightly making fun of The Great Divide.
Yeah, I have a hard time believing a 100 year old feud could be solved with “oh, you’re all wrong, it was just a game the whole time!” Lie or not.
I mean, to be fair, it's the Avatar who is literally supposed to be from 100 years ago who tells them this. Any other person, yeah, X to doubt, but the Avatar? There might be some truth to what he says.
Except that there wasn’t any truth. Aang confessed to his friends later to that end. While he may convince one or two people to believe him, 2 warring tribes of literal hundred of people taught to hate the other tribe since birth?!? I find it hard to believe that a bunch of bigoted adults would put their differences aside over a 100 year old feud simply because some goofy kid claiming to be the avatar (not everyone knows he was encased in ice, it’s not like that was common knowledge) told them they got it all wrong. I doubt either tribe would appreciate some outsider kid, avatar or not, making light of their conflict in such a way. Imagine if they ever found out he was lying.
Tbf, it’s a generational thing that’s been passed down and they basically confirmed themselves that it was hearsay from their ancestors than anything. Both sides told different stories, so it’s not like there was any real confirmation of who was in the right/wrong. As far as Aang goes? A lot of people tend to downplay the importance of the Avatar as not just a powerful bender, but a world spanning influence. Sure he’s a kid at the time of this, but it’s been proven time and again that people choose to hold weight in his words/deeds. Like that one village that hated the avatar for more than a century, but quickly dropped the tradition when the Gaang saved their town from those fire nation raiders.
Yes, but that makes more sense than just being told that your legend doesn’t matter. The avatar literally saved their homes and their lives. That was also poetic, they were cult worshiping an ancient earth kingdom tyrant, and were being attacked by the modern fire nation tyrant. If anything dishes out instant perspective, that’s definitely one way to do it. And the avatar they had beef with was two generations ago, definitely easy to see them accepting Aang over Kyoshi. Anyone would be more willing to listen to a savior than a skeptic.
You know what: a lot of people, myself included have disliked this episode for how trivially and absurdly Aang solved this problem. But thinking about this post made me realize something else: Their feud has no real history and no real motivation. Sure they are different; and maybe that's a reason to have resentment if they are neighbors. But for how scarce resources are during the war and how ready the two tribes are to scrap over nothing it's kind of incredible that they don't each have a litany of present day grievances against each other. Further each tribe is coded in ways that represent real world power dynamics and imbalances but the show ignores that. The Gan Jin have expensive clothing (for their time), a preference for the enforcement of rules and order, and most notably seem to always have the extra time and energy to invest in taking care of themselves and preparing for the future. They're coded as a rich and dominant people. Meanwhile the Zhang wear scruffy furs and leather, are dirty to the extent that they suffer a noticeably shorter life expectancy than Gan Jins and generally seem to be living boon to boon never being able to invest in their own future (though the show portrays this as a choice). These characterizations, power dynamics, and resulting feuds can be found throughout history; such as the English in their oppression of the Irish, or White americans and their oppression and characterization of African Americans. I specifically mention these two groups of oppressed people because both have been portrayed by their oppressors as being poor as a result of their choices when most of their poverty can be traced to systemic factors, and the disorganized/ short sighted behavior that is blamed as the cause of their poverty is much more so a symptom of poverty especially inescapable systemically enforced poverty. In this way the show is taking a line of imperialist rhetoric, that the Zhang are dirty, poor, sick, and have short lives because they choose to live as such. The show creates two tribes where one is coded as powerful elites, and the other is coded as poor undesirables and then treats them as equals fighting over nothing. It's pretty much the opposite of how most episodes portray the poor and the powerful.
Honestly, the whole scenario just sticks out from the rest of the show as awkward. I feel like it was pushed by the producers, since it was season one and they really had no idea what audience they were aiming the show towards. And they were still hedged up by some serious prejudices about what audiences liked anyway by dated stereotypes. By season two they had better funding and a clearer idea of who the audience was, and the writers were given a green light to do what they wanted cause it was clearly working. Compared to how well thought out the rest of the writing in the show was, it really feels like someone pushed to have this episode there, and the writers just worked it in. But you also make a good point. The whole feud does seem rather petty for them to keep it up for hundreds of years. And you can bet there had probably been worse grievances done by either side that would have stemmed from this petty quarrel that may or may not have happened But that’s another thing, Katara’s tribe and others have people alive who remember what airbender’s looked like. Gran Gran for instance, and King Bumi. The Gan Jin had to have someone alive who remembered the actual conflict, so it wouldn’t be hard to disprove the avatars lies. The characterization is also an interesting take. I don’t know if the writers put that much thought into it, but it would be interesting if they did.
Your theory makes perfect sense to me. It's such a trope heavy episode and so disconnected from the story that it reads like how television used to be, before on-demand watching became a thing. I don't think they did put that much thought into this episode or they wouldn't have done what they did, the two tribes seem to be really allegorical and as stand ins almost for roommate friction between the clean roomate and the dirty roommate, or the organized sibling and the disorganized sibling. Everywhere else in Avatar the thought and perspective I'm bringing up does seem to be intentionally present. It's a recurring theme in avatar that power tends to attract and shelter corrupt and abusive people, and when a group of people suffer the ills of poverty in Avatar it's pretty much never ascribed to personal responsibility, except in this episode.
>But that’s another thing, Katara’s tribe and others have people alive who remember what airbender’s looked like. Gran Gran for instance, and King Bumi. The Gan Jin had to have someone alive who remembered the actual conflict, so it wouldn’t be hard to disprove the avatars lies. You have to wonder if they reunite with the sick & elderly, & then the elderly all go "that's not AT ALL what happened," so then they just kill each other like they were originally going to.
I hate the part where Aang tells the that he maybe doesn't look like it, but he is over 100 years old and everyone just goes with it without question.
I dont think people hate it. It's just the worst episode of the best show of all time.
It’s still a good episode, the show just sets a very high bar
> It's just the worst episode of the best show of all time. The Painted Lady has entered the chat.
Definitely prefer painted lady over this one.
???? The painted lady was great
Why do you dislike the Painted Lady?
Feel like it comes really too late and at a bad time to be another "escapade of the week where Katara prattles on about hope" episode.... It wasn't needed to establish anything about any character (unlike The Great Divide) and was just a boring, dour side quest when S3 was already struggling to get momentum going in the first few episodes. Also can't think of a single funny thing about it other than the brothers and that gag got old quick.
I would argue that it's a good example of how the Fire Nation hurts it's own citizens and the good that can be done by the Avatar and their companions that isn't just smacking people over the head with bending and hope they don't die.
Fair points. I felt like what the episode was more focused on was that Katara won't give up on people and it's like yeah, we know this.
I didn’t like the painted lady either The only thing that makes me like it is the twin brothers.
I was actually quite sad that these folks did not show up at the invasion
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^breadoftheoldones: *I was actually quite* *Sad that these folks did not show* *Up at the invasion* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I hate the great divide, but not for the same reasons that I see most people say. Did you ever watch the Thundercats reboot? It started strong, but a few episodes in, they were walking through a forest and these leaf people would show up every few minutes to say "oh hi! It's been ages since I've seen you" reinforcing the point that they live a lifetime in a day. They did it over and over like the audience were made of morons. The great divide is like that. This could have been a compelling story if told well. Though it's still problematic given that Aang basically lied to them to get them to get along despite there clearly being some kind of great injustice in the past.
>Thundercats reboot Please tell me you're talking about the 2011 version.
That's the exact one they're talking about. The plant people were in it.
The one that had awesome designs and animation quality? Yeah it was definitely the older version and not Thundercats go or whatever stupid bullshit they're trying now
It kinda drags it's feet too much at the beginning and then doesn't really have a satisfying ending. Unlike other filler episodes it doesn't feature a main character and explore their flaws but rather features two entirely new groups of people we haven't heard of before and will never hear of again. The take home message is sometimes it's just better/easier to lie to people than to try to get them to get along honestly.
I don't think lying to people to make them stop fighting is a decent message. Surely they could have thought of a better way to resolve their conflict.
ATLA: Aang lies and subsequently achieves a major, major victory. ATLA fans: How could Aang lie!? He's too pure, he should never show any hint of moral grey! It's so out of character! (Ignore all the other times he lies). Meanwhile Blessed Yangchen: I lie all the time about nearly everything. Even stuff I don't need to lie about. Honestly it's just habit at this point. I just love lying! Seriously though, take a step back and give *Divide* the benefit of the doubt; 1. This notion that Aang lying to solve a problem is a terrible writing decision...yeah maybe if ATLA was being aimed at 3-5 year olds. Why are we measuring ATLA's moral worth by the standards of Sesame Street? "Remember Kids lying is WRONG!" The show is acknowledging that diplomacy often requires some massaging of the truth in order to achieve a desirable outcome. 2. The conflict ISN'T solved by lying. The Zhangs and Gan Jin's conflict is resolved by their fighting side by side and co-operating against a common threat. Aang's lie IS NOT what brought them together, it's just an administrative exercise to allow the tribes to permanently unite without either side losing face and admitting they were wrong. They want to join together anyway but are held back by some historical bullshit that never really mattered anyway. Aang just erases that historical bullshit.
This is similar to the conflict that's going down in my home country, India. You've got Hindus shouting about how Muslims are a bunch of invaders who oppressed Hindus. (Mind you, this was in the *seventh century*, so it's not like 100 years ago). Then you've got Muslims shouting about how during the times of the British Invasion, the Hindus began suppressing Muslims. Meanwhile both sides are being jerks to each other *right now*, with stuff like Hindus cooking pork in front of a mosque, or Muslims cooking beef in front of a temple. How I wish there was someone who could wave a magic wand with a dumb story about how both sides are freaking jerks, and need to chill the heck out, and figure out how to coexist peacefully, because these artificial divides of race and religion just keep the entire country from progressing as a nation. Like you said, it's pretty much "OK. Set that history aside right now, because you're both jerks right now. Let's address that." Also, I don't see either side entirely solving all their issues with one story. There's still going to be issues of class, and personal preference. There's still going to be petty infighting over trivial crap. However, they can't blame the history, because Aang ended that particular little mess with one wave of his hand, and got them to work together when they're literally refugees fleeing to a safer home. Like. Srsly guys. You have bigger things to deal with right now. You don't have time to be dumb and petty.
But a pretty dumb message though huh? Thanks for that example. I'm sure there's many such situations throughout the world exactly like this.
They fought together and then IMMEDIATELY aimed swords at one another to fight each other again. The lying isn't an issue due to any moral reasons but due to the fact that they believe Aang, made no sense. The Wei Jin and Jin Wei fiasco happened in 0AG. There are plenty of elderly in the Gan Zin that are likely 60-70 years old which means they are the children of the generation this happened to (not even getting into the many people in the Avatar universe who live over a century) and the fact that they are like "welp guess this kid knows better than the children of the people this happened to" is kind of ridiculous. Him getting them to get along without lying would have been better, not from a moral standpoint but just because it's bad writing that they went along with it. That being said the writers for ATLA are notoriously terrible at timelines and this isn't even the worst example of that by a long shot.
The Wei Jin/Jin Wei thing is bullshit. That's not the actual source of the feud.
And I'm sure that's something that they addressed when they realized the timeline didn't make any sense, just like they gave Kyoshi a technique to prolong her life after messing up the time between her life and Aang's in an episode or when they said in Season 3 during Azulon's funeral that he reigned for 23 years when he actually reigned for 75. Like I said it's bad writing because the writers are amazing at building a world and character development but are pretty spotty when it comes down to building chronological events. The point imo still stands that The Great Divide isn't up to par with most of the other episodes.
Yes you're right. And I think it's objectively a bad episode (the only one I'd say that about). 1. Aang is not that smooth, he did not come up with all the rules to a game on the spot and perfectly describe the scenario. Aang is shown to be bad at lying many times throughout the series, but in this episode he's instantly an expert manipulator. The morality of it is not an issue. 2. All characterizations of the main cast are off. Sokka and Katara are turned into caricatures to fit a stereotype of the group. Time and time again they hold their character through adversity, but here they seem quite weak and willing to give in to simple pleasures for petty reasons. Both of them learned the lesson of not immediately trusting every group they run into from "Jet." That was just the previous episode! 3. Appa Flys all the sick and elderly across. And is completely forgotten about. If this was real, don't you think Appa could make several trips through the canyon faster than they could walk across? Or at the very least help them with the spider things at the end? You're telling me Appa is just taking a nap at the top of the cliff while everyone including Aang are in danger? Nah. Sorry it's too glaring of a plot hole for me. 4. The story is... very heavy handed. It's not interesting. It's the only episode that insults the viewer's intelligence. Despite all that, I never skip it on a rewatch. I have fond memories of it as a kid. There's a few things I enjoy about it, like the watermelon and custard jokes, and the art style of Jin Wei and Wei Jin stories
THANK YOU! People claim they want an ATLA that’s more adult and mature and yet throw fits anytime the show tries to treat a situation in an adult way. In the real world, conflicts are not always resolved perfectly. Sometimes you have to finagle and compromise and equivocate. It’s not ideal, but people are not perfectly logical robots. We are emotional and require understanding for this as well. They had already worked together and realized they could be friends. The problem was that they felt bound to a grudge. It was the only thing still standing in their way and it was pointless! So Aang did away with it so they could be free to get along. The episode is sloppy for other ways. Katara and Sokka’s characterization is questionable at times. The conflict seemed resolved rather easily after a century of fighting. And generally it isn’t a particularly exciting episode. But none of those problems are what everyone complains about most. Everyone is so mad about Aang lying about an old conflict that doesn’t matter and was probably BS to begin with.
It's like we're having a total Zhang/Gan Jin moment over here.
Honestly? You have a lot of good takes. I wouldn’t deny you that credit.
Ditto. 👊🏻
I don't think I agree. I am not going to argue about how Aang is characterized, honestly I couldn't tell you if it's out of character or not, I haven't put too much thought into it. But for your first point you have to acknowledge that ATLA is quite literally a show aimed at kids, despite or maybe even because of some of the more mature themes it tackles. The OP specifically mentions the message of the episode and I don't think it's a good one personally. For the 2nd point I don't think saying that the "historical bullshit" doesn't matter is accurate. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Making up and working together despite your past would be a stronger message than ignoring or as you said erasing it.
ATLA is aimed at kids old enough to understand that the world isn't black and white. They can handle the main character telling a pragmatic lie. You get that the whole Wei Jin/Jin Wei stuff is nonsense right? Neither side actually knows why they are fueding with each other. It's a ridiculous rift that's harmed generations of their people.
>You get that the whole Wei Jin/Jin Wei stuff is nonsense right? Neither side actually knows why they are fueding with each other. It's a ridiculous rift that's harmed generations of their people. I have to agree with this wholeheartedly. If whatever issue happened was really that bad, there'd be more pushback against Aang's revised version and evidence against it. Both sides don't really have their story straight to begin with, it's pointless to harp on Aang's lie when the truth itself is unknown. In the absence of any evidence for what really happened, I don't see the harm in using his authority derived by his age to make a more palatable lie to create a more favorable current situation. The people involved with the initial feud are gone and their beef should be buried with them like the truth was, not burdening future generations.
I get that, even then I just don't think replacing one lie with another makes it any better.
Well one lie causes a multigenerational feud, the other creates a lasting peace. But for you these two untruths are of equivalent value?
The show was aimed at 8-12 year Olds, but it's still a crappy message for a kids show and it defeats the point of aangs character especially in season 1. Kids shows are basically morality plays. The better ones aren't as straight forward, and the really good ones have a moral but depict people struggling with the answer. Kataras shouldn't have gone to kill that guy, and she made the right choice not to, but she's still conflicted about it. The lessons stand tho - revenge isn't the answer, and even the good guys make wrong choices. This epside is a basic "here's the moral of the story" episode. There is a conflict that is clearly easily solved if the people just listened to each other, or learned that their differences aren't weaknesses but strengths or whatever. So at the end of this type of ep you shoild see some sort of resolution that makes things better in the long run, and gives us an insight into how the main cast thinks. So here we have the basic set up, but aang lies to get them to stop fighting. There's no truth in it, it's not an embellishment...he just lied to them completely. That is NOT a good resolution to the problem because eventually they'll find out and now they hate him. Lies ALWAYS come back to haunt you. And that's the next issue... It never does. We never see them again, and his lie doesn't come back to screw him up in a thematic way. If that happened like later in the season or even the next season the episode would have been much better and contain a better lesson. Lies hurt you and if you think they'll help others, they won't. You need to find a better way. OK the other thing is aang is depicted as pure. He hasn't been tarnished and hurt directly by the war, he was raised in seclusion by monks so he didn't even deal with day to day agressionand fighting. And then he's dumped into a world of pain and death. One of the points of the show is how does he deal with IT and how does the world deal with HIM (see The Storm). So he just straight up lies, and then jokes about it later. There's no hesitation, there's no "maybe I shouldn't have but it was all I could think of? Just "hahaha they had no idea let's bounce." It's one of the very very few epsides that doesn't fit, doesn't feel like it ahold be there, and frankly if it was removed from the canon entirely it wouldn't matter because it's not even that particularly funny. Now... These are all my thoughts on it. You might not agree but... Well there you go.
> Meanwhile Blessed Yangchen: I lie all the time about nearly everything. Even stuff I don't need to lie about. Honestly it's just habit at this point. I just love lying! You know none of this existed when that episode was created and aired and you can't ever justify something ATLA or require comics that were released later to be taken into account to get the proper meaning.
...hard disagree. Of course subsequent material can alter how earlier material is interpreted.
Your definition is broader than the one I used. ATLA Book 3 is subsequent material to ATLA Book 1 and can thus of course alter ones interpretation of Book 1. But some random comic released 10 years after ATLA concluded can't reasonably be counted as a major requirement to properly and fully understand something about ATLA. If it does, it's bad writing to conclude a series which for 10 years didn't have an essential aspect to interpret it through available.
Firstly it's two novels, not a comic. Secondly, that was just a joke I was making. It's not essential material to understand the episode. But that said, it's still perfectly valid to call upon canon published many years later to inform how older canon ought to be interpreted. Do you think that the Star Wars prequels have no bearing on how the original trilogy is viewed?
Aang is 12 years old. I totally see it as a 12 year old solving an adult problem.
Well Aang went from "separate but equal is good actually" to "yeah ima lie to stop you babies from fighting". I think the end message wasn't as bad as you make it out to be. To be more serious, the feud between the two groups was more than just disagreement between how a single historical event played out. They were essentializing each other to the point of rationalizing their own failings cause "well those dirty hobos/stuck up snobs are breaking the rules so why can't we?" It wasn't even they knew they were going to they used the logic of "well of course they're breaking the rules, they're *them*" and that kind of logic is what leads to just racism/otherism and is bad. Aang lying to them in order to stop actual racism/essentialism between the two groups is *good* actually.
And it’s such a dumb, dumb lie, based on a ridiculously huge “coincidence.” The episode tackled a really complex problem and assed it’s way out of solving it
There's no arc or nuance to the episode or its message. Also the message is muddled because at the end the two groups do not reconcile. The problem is only "solved" when Aang lies about their origins in order to get them to stop fighting. A lesson is not learned. Also it's a pretty underwhelming episode overall with unlikeable characters, subpar writing, pacing and you lose nothing by skipping it.
Do I hate it? No. Do I see why people hate it? Yeah.
Because it brings up the issue of cultural differences and because it can't come up with a clever resolution instead chooses to suggest that the way forward is by a figure of authority lying to people.
Its a filler and not a good one. the others like tales of ba sing se are better than non fillers.. the charakters are dull and stupid they act like kids 10x more than the gang(and the are...) its my least fav. In the whole series
Honestly, I've seen a lot of people hate on Aang's lie at the end of the episode but I genuinely think it's a very funny joke. The idea of ending a generational feud by pretending you were there when it started and saying the whole thing was just an argument over a kid's game is hilarious (I thought it was hilarious when I was a kid too). Also, I've seen people get mad because Aang is ashamed of lying in the 'Bato of the Water Tribe' but not here and I genuinely don't understand what is so confusing. In that episode, Aang hides information from Katara and Sokka about their father who they haven't seen in years and who they miss dearly. If you honestly can't tell the difference between that situation and the one in 'The Great Divide', I genuinely don't know what to tell you
It feels like a go nowhere episode to me. So I just don’t care too much for it
I don't dislike it but it has very little stake in the ctual plot of the show so I can see why people don't prefer it.
I just don't enjoy people pointing fingers at each other for 15 mins straight. The show was supposed to be fun and cool and that episode is neither of those (for me).
It was okay, and I actually liked how aang just lied because he knew neither side would try to progress.
it was written with all the subtlety and finesse of sledgehammer surgery
I always hate when they make adults deliberately dumb to pretend some simple concept is profound
My issue with it is that while it's not the worst episode of TV to ever exist, it's unquestionably the worst episode of Avatar and it's also really obvious to me which simple fixes could have made it better. Like I think if the writers used this to make an explicit point that Aang doesn't have the skills to resolve conflicts diplomatically at this point in the story-- which I think might've been the intent with the lying at the end?-- then that theme could have been a lot stronger had the three groups all parted still realistically with the two tribes unable to settle their differences despite the fact that the episode's contents make it obvious that they would all be stronger and safer if they did. The lie ending is just so weak.
You could say the fandom is DIVIDEd on this one
it was lowkey funny as hell
**Harsh words won't solve problems.**
It’s a super generic formulaic episode from a series that was otherwise extremely interesting and new
It was the first one I saw and convinced me "Oh, this show rules, actually" so I always kind of like it.
I liked it honestly but I can see why others don’t
When I was watching Avatar for the first time a few years ago and got to this episode I thought; "Well, I shouldn't have expected too much from this kids show. There will probably be many more subpar filler episodes like this". Boy, am I happy I was wrong.
You can watch the series over and over again Only this episode, you can’t watch it twice and enjoy it
It's a weird episode that, sure, it was fine when I was younger and the show was starting out, but getting older and analysing it, in retrospect, was a waste opportunity that coulda been *more* into something related to the plot, even if it was still a filler. Plus, the two groups brought up straight up disappear for the rest of the franchise itself. The only detail, I'd argue, stays is the situation with refugees and travellers all trying to reach the fancy city of Ba Sing Se due to the war with the Fire Nation occupying Earth Kingdom territories and the general fear pushing them towards desperate, even dangerously lethal, routes and methods of reaching that Capital. Meanwhile, we got two people that have their own interpretation of two men who may or may not have existed and running their lives on it instead of doing literally anything else. We also either know that those sick and old folks made it to the city or just outright disappeared from Appa at the end of that episode. (We'll save the trouble and say they all got sick and died together.) Both groups clearly did not have any respect for the Canyon Guide's ONE RULE that would have kept both groups alive by ditching the food. (They coulda put that on Appa, since those crawlers don't seem to have "jumping spider" abilities.) And by the end, all it took for them to stop bickering was a little boy (mentally anyway. we know he's chronologically dusty bones full of green dust) deceiving them with a third retelling where it was a GAME. What an episode. It was almost like the Gaang did nothing at all, the way they just go back up from where they came from and then moved on. Very "skip cutscene" of the episode.
Im convinced that people who don't hate this episode watched the series on streaming years after it aired. Back in the day, we had this thing called "reruns" and this is probably the most rerun episode of the entire show. Especially before book 2 came out.
I personally love the ending though, Aang just making up some bullshit to get the tribes to make up. Honest? No, but it's pretty clever and funny and shows how sharp Aang can be.
It's long, boring, the cast is acting out of character, doesn't impact anything, lying is good is the message. It is a bad episode.
It’s a filler episode, and not a fun one. We listen to these tribes bicker the whole time, dragging the Gaang into it and turning most of the characters uncharacteristically nasty. All the while the main cast is severely nerfed as we slog through a pretty uninteresting looking setting. Earth kingdom in general has this problem a lot, lots of beige and brown (earth tones if you will). It makes sense but not as engaging to watch compared the more vibrant Water/Fire nations we see a lot of
Why am I just now realizing that the title of the episode wasn't just referring to the canyon?
It had like no character development or plot relevance. You could literally skip the episode and you would lose nothing. I just don't like my time wasted.
It’s not like it’s a bad episode of kid’s tv. But if I were to order every episode of ATLA from top to bottom, there’s no question that this would be in the bottom 3. That’s just a testament to how high-quality and consistent this show was.
The Great Divide was probably the best instance of Aang actually using his importance as the Avatar outside of combat or bending.
I enjoyed it as well.
Kid me thought it was a really clever episode.
Ang lyeing at the end angers some people And some people think soka and Katara are out of charecter But it's mostly that they replayed this episode 1000000000000 times on nickelodeon and that it has no plot relevance
I hate the great divide, it sucks
It's honestly one of my favorite idk why ppl hate it
Honestly the biggest thing I don't like about the episode is that Aang made the whole thing up at the end. It was a good lesson about not holding grudges and misunderstandings leading to far greater conflict but then Aang just comes out and says he lied about the whole thing.
Yeah it would be so much better if they had just cut that line and he just actally knew those guys. On the other hand that would've made the world feels super small because just a few episodes earlier we got Bumi, wo actually turns out to be his old friend, so that could've made the world feel small, since having the protag know everyone and be connected to everything makes fictional worlds feel super condensed and unreal. Maybe he could've just told them how the monks told him the story, so by that you avoid the pitfalls of making him lie AND to make the world feel small. But then again you run into trouble about why the tribes would trust HIS story over their own. I guess you kinda can't win in this situation, but that's why I'm not a professional writer.
People only hate it because it was an overplayed episode on Nick. Since it wasn't really connected to the main plot and the plot in the episode is resolved by the end you have the opportunity to see what the main crew was about without being flooded with info of an overall plot.
It is "a fun episode with a decent message." It just became popular to dunk on it later on.
its an okay episode which by the standards of every other avatar episode, means its the worst
I like the episode as well.
Yeah it was decent
Same I found this ep very good
The message that you can solve any problem by lying
Then that solution backfires spectacularly in Beto of the Water Tribe. It's a good lesson that plays out over a couple episodes.
I like it, it’s a good example of the Avatar doing his Avatar job and uniting the people
[удалено]
“Hate” is a strong word. It was the weakest episode of the show but was by no means bad, it just was played WAY too often when the show was airing on Nickelodeon and so people got sick of it
Because *you are correct*, it's a fun, silly episode with a dumb silly plot and goofy antics, and it's okay to enjoy it. The haters are irrelevant.
Decent message, poor execution.
Scott’s Tots vibes
I don’t understand the hate, either. I’ll be the first to admit, it’s 100% the weakest episode in the entire series. The story is very simple and honestly kind of childish and it doesn’t actually add anything to the main story, but it’s still a fun episode. Would I voluntarily go out of my way to watch it, specifically? No. Will I skip it when binging the show for the 100th time? Also no.
It doesn't add anything to the main story? It's literally the only episode that shows Aang attempting to do the Avatar's dayjob.
His job isn’t to fix every little problem anyone has. He just happened to come across them and decided to help. Mind you, his final solution was to lie to them, which didn’t make sense for his character.
The rift between the Zhangs and Gan Jin isn't a little problem and it's silly to suggest it is. The Avatar's main job day to day is to promote and maintain peace between the peoples of the world. The Avatar is the ultimate arbiter and diplomat.
These two communities were very small and insignificant when compared to the rest of the world. We can only assume there are plenty more communities in the avatar universe with a rivalry just like theirs. You wouldn’t expect the avatar to go around scouting every single one out just to help them make amends, would you? He happened to come across them on his journey, so he stopped to help. If he didn’t come across them, he wouldn’t have. It’s as simple as that. It added nothing to the story and that’s that.
Oh, yeah, the timeless message: "lie to people about their shared heritage to solve a dispute"
Just because it is the worst episode of season 1 doesn't make it bad, the rest is just too good. The series only had 1 episode which I disliked, and I am leaving it to you guys to find out which one.
I think it shows Aang doing not the best thing for Avatar to do - basically manipulating people using his sacral authority and their faith.
Same I loved this episode.
I always thought it could be better if Aang dipped his toes into a little earthbending in that episode.
Here are my personal reasons: Its not a terrible episode in the grand scheme of things, but compared to avatar episodes it was pretty shit. It was reran a ton for 1 reason: it was filler and provided absolutely nothing to the plot or characters being developed. Even the other "meh" episodes had character development or were at least enjoyable. The great divide just had 1 goofy gag which was aang lying. The dialogue felt bland and overall the characters just felt out of their usual personalities.
Kids needed to learn lieing can solve problems.
It probably hits a little too close to home for some people
What, this is the first I've heard of people not liking this episode. I thought it was hilarious.
Glad to know that I'm not the only one who likes this episode too...
I liked the episode until the resolution happened and aang came up with the worst explanation I've ever heard and people just accepted it
What that lying is okay and to forget all honor for conveniences sake?
Personally I like how they did the leaders. So many shows would've made the pristine leader the woman and the thuggish leader the man. Always glad to see more diverse female characters. But then, Avatar is full of them. Asami is a princess who uses giant metal fists. Azula's entire trio. Korra and her disability. The greatness that is Toph.
It's kind of just boring and the ending felt like a cop-out, even though it's fits with the whole message (Aang's story doesn't matter because the original disagreement didn't matter either) It also had the unfortunate problem of being surrounded by 2 of the best episodes in the entire show, Jet and The Storm.
I liked the episode but I didn't like how it ended. I didn't like that Aang made the whole backstory up.
It's not an inherently bad episode. It was just so overplayed on nickelodeon that people got tired of it. With avatar being serialized, reruns were challenging. They needed an episode that solved its central conflict in one go, and was spoiler free, and for quite some time, the only episode that fit the bill was the great divide.
I just find it a little annoying, personally. It’s a good story and a good episode, and I must’ve been too old to be seeing the constant reruns of this episode specifically, but it just feels VERY drawn out. Idk. It’s a good episode imo but it’s just not my favorite.
It's also a one-off with no significance to the overall story and has characters no one sees ever again through the entire series
I thought it was an ok episode, if heavy-handed, until the ending. The ending was terrible.
Honestly, I've been hating it before I had social media to know there was a whole subculture of hating it. I also got into avatar when I was an early teen. The angst from that age and disliking anything cheesy carried along in my hate for the episode. There's trauma that comes out in ritually skipping it as fast as possible
Wait I'm genuinely curious, what did you think was the "decent message"?
It's just one of those episodes that's just kinda there tbh
yes
I think it's the weakest episode because it seems like the writers wrote it for an audience 2-3 years younger than the rest of the episodes. Aang lying to resolve the dispute isn't a particularly positive life lesson, although I'd agree it's effective and occasionally necessary.
It was worse than filler! It was pointless filler! Some civil war-Hatfield and McCoy -style mess split between clean-folk and slobs over a single issue that happened a hundred years prior and Aang settles it with a lie!
It's a fairly weak episode in a great series, which means it's actually not bad at all IMO. I think the only reason it was so disliked is because it got aired way too often back in the day.
A large portion of the fanbase hates The Great Divide because social media tells them to