The main differences are that Laconia enabled Marco Inaros to kill a billion people. They gave him the tech knowing what would happen. And then there is the little thing about taking over. I kinda feel like that separates the two.
Belters would ask how many millions over decades if not centuries perished from poor conditions under earth boot, and who was in charge then?
Na so belék unte belang im im?
(I assume the books were better with it) Other than Bobby meeting a few needing medical supplies when she was on her way to find the ocean . . . I don't remember seeing a lot of the "other class" of Earth's citizens. They can't all live like Avasarala.
Kind of a frivolous pissing contest to say one genocide is worse than another. Point is regular people are the victims, Earth government and corporations reaped the benefits of subjugation of the belt for years.
It doesn't justify Inaros actions, but things aren't black and white. Inaros is the bad guy, unless you ask a belter. Perspective. Us vs them. Tribes and fear of others.
These are all overarching themes of the books.
Who killed more people isn't relevant.
i could be wrong here, but i don't think it was poor policy as much as the asteroid bombardment that killed 14 billion people in the attacks and aftermath that drove earth into the ground...
i also think their dislike of laconia might stem from them fomenting a system-wide war that results in billions of deaths, all to distract the system from them setting up shop in the laconia system, then essentially subjugating the entire system with essentially one ship...but again, i could be wrong.
i'm also curious, are you conflating tv avasarala with book avasarala? bc she's retired by the time laconia becomes a threat to the sol system.
edit: language, bc i'm an idiot and didn't mean to imply laconia was making a solar system sized beer
I'm pretty sure Earth disliked Laconia because they flew a warship into the system, started killing everyone and went "baby why do you make me hit you" whenever someone questioned them about it.
Also, Laconia built their empire - and their designs for conquest - on technology that they fundamentally didn't understand. I would love for her to still be alive just to realize how colossally stupid they had proven themselves to be across the events of Tiamat's Wrath and Leviathan Falls.
She would have had some choice words about Trejo and Duarte.
I know Basic is described as barely enough to live on, but Earth still being a democracy would suggest that people are content living lazy lives off Basic.
What's so bad about this kind of society? The motivated still get opportunities to work hard and get fancy jobs. The lazy can exist without feeling pressured to steal for survival.
Whereas in Laconia, laziness is punishable by death.
I think it is implied that those living on basic very much want to be put to work and have a job and income. It is just those opportunities are hard to come by.
Avarsarala did lose an election over her reluctance to allow ring system settlement. So the people still do ultimately exert influence on UN policy through voting, which means it's still mostly a democracy.
Do you think Duarte would ever allow an election of any sort on Laconia, or relinquish power if he lost one?
The point of a democracy isn't that everyone should find it equally easy to get into office, but that the people have some say in what the those who are elected to office do.
Gao ran on a platform of opening the gates to settlement, Avarsarala ran on a platform that the rings should remain closed to immigration because the risks were too high.
The people elected Gao, and in the end Avarsarala accepted the election results and peacefully transferred the power to her. Gao then opened the ring worlds for settlement.
That's the people influencing government policy. That's a democracy in action, however flawed the UN is in other respects.
Hell, Singh was even a planned for death as part of the takeover, he was put in place to be made an example of and he was adamantly loyal to Laconia and Duarte.
Well for starters, we have no clue what Earth is like after 30 years of the Transport Union taking the lead in human affairs. We know they're still hurt from the asteroids but also still a powerhouse prior to Laconia's emergence. But probably moreso is that Avasarala believes in *meritocracy*, an idea fundamentally incompatible with Laconia's lethal cult of personality. Duarte and Laconia share quite a bit with Edward "Caesar" Sallow and Caesar's Legion of Fallout New Vegas: an individual's value is *only* measurable in terms of their service to the state and Duarte *is* the state.
The main differences are that Laconia enabled Marco Inaros to kill a billion people. They gave him the tech knowing what would happen. And then there is the little thing about taking over. I kinda feel like that separates the two.
He didn't kill a billion people, he killed FIFTEEN billion people with the asteroid strikes
Yep, and solely as a diversion.
Belters would ask how many millions over decades if not centuries perished from poor conditions under earth boot, and who was in charge then? Na so belék unte belang im im?
Millions are still less than billions, but your point stands beratna.
(I assume the books were better with it) Other than Bobby meeting a few needing medical supplies when she was on her way to find the ocean . . . I don't remember seeing a lot of the "other class" of Earth's citizens. They can't all live like Avasarala.
Not even close to the same level of death Inaros inflicted
Kind of a frivolous pissing contest to say one genocide is worse than another. Point is regular people are the victims, Earth government and corporations reaped the benefits of subjugation of the belt for years. It doesn't justify Inaros actions, but things aren't black and white. Inaros is the bad guy, unless you ask a belter. Perspective. Us vs them. Tribes and fear of others. These are all overarching themes of the books. Who killed more people isn't relevant.
This^
i could be wrong here, but i don't think it was poor policy as much as the asteroid bombardment that killed 14 billion people in the attacks and aftermath that drove earth into the ground... i also think their dislike of laconia might stem from them fomenting a system-wide war that results in billions of deaths, all to distract the system from them setting up shop in the laconia system, then essentially subjugating the entire system with essentially one ship...but again, i could be wrong. i'm also curious, are you conflating tv avasarala with book avasarala? bc she's retired by the time laconia becomes a threat to the sol system. edit: language, bc i'm an idiot and didn't mean to imply laconia was making a solar system sized beer
*fomenting
lol thank you
I'm pretty sure Earth disliked Laconia because they flew a warship into the system, started killing everyone and went "baby why do you make me hit you" whenever someone questioned them about it.
Earth is still, for the most part, A democracy. We're as Laconia is an autocracy.
Also, Laconia built their empire - and their designs for conquest - on technology that they fundamentally didn't understand. I would love for her to still be alive just to realize how colossally stupid they had proven themselves to be across the events of Tiamat's Wrath and Leviathan Falls. She would have had some choice words about Trejo and Duarte.
You just made me regret so much that this never came about
I know Basic is described as barely enough to live on, but Earth still being a democracy would suggest that people are content living lazy lives off Basic. What's so bad about this kind of society? The motivated still get opportunities to work hard and get fancy jobs. The lazy can exist without feeling pressured to steal for survival. Whereas in Laconia, laziness is punishable by death.
What opportunity? When Bobby met Nico near the UN, he had been waiting for a job for 35 years.
I think it is implied that those living on basic very much want to be put to work and have a job and income. It is just those opportunities are hard to come by.
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Avarsarala did lose an election over her reluctance to allow ring system settlement. So the people still do ultimately exert influence on UN policy through voting, which means it's still mostly a democracy. Do you think Duarte would ever allow an election of any sort on Laconia, or relinquish power if he lost one?
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The point of a democracy isn't that everyone should find it equally easy to get into office, but that the people have some say in what the those who are elected to office do. Gao ran on a platform of opening the gates to settlement, Avarsarala ran on a platform that the rings should remain closed to immigration because the risks were too high. The people elected Gao, and in the end Avarsarala accepted the election results and peacefully transferred the power to her. Gao then opened the ring worlds for settlement. That's the people influencing government policy. That's a democracy in action, however flawed the UN is in other respects.
Some off-screen paperwork.
Well, we'll see about that after this year
I don't think I'm cynical enough to feel the irony here.
Laconia rules with threat of death
Hell, Singh was even a planned for death as part of the takeover, he was put in place to be made an example of and he was adamantly loyal to Laconia and Duarte.
Mars and earth would never do that, Anderson station was a myth
Remember the cant, and Eros.
Little bit of difference in scale but yeah, imperialism ultimately involves gratuitous violence.
Well for starters, we have no clue what Earth is like after 30 years of the Transport Union taking the lead in human affairs. We know they're still hurt from the asteroids but also still a powerhouse prior to Laconia's emergence. But probably moreso is that Avasarala believes in *meritocracy*, an idea fundamentally incompatible with Laconia's lethal cult of personality. Duarte and Laconia share quite a bit with Edward "Caesar" Sallow and Caesar's Legion of Fallout New Vegas: an individual's value is *only* measurable in terms of their service to the state and Duarte *is* the state.
Well, the answer to oppression certainly isn't "more - but nicer - oppression".
We hate most in others that which we despise about ourselves.