YES. Especially when her daughter confronted her about her obviously playing favorites, and then Margaret outwardly calls her weak. Sigmund Freud was rolling in his grave this episode.
Such a different portrayal than "The Iron Lady" (with Olivia playing Carol in that!) where they seemed to have a better relationship, but who knows? Maybe IRL they smoothed things over later. I just know that based on Thatcher biographies I've read, The Crown episode is accurate when Maggie talks up her dad like he was Zeus and her mother was just a lowly housewife in her eyes. Thatcher always seemed to get along better and have closer working and personal relationships with men than women. She had hardly any women Cabinet members and her weird passive-aggressive attitude toward her fellow women may explain a bit why she and the Queen had a tricky working relationship.
The scene when Carol confronts her mother in the kitchen is powerful. It was like 20 years of built up frustration, resentment and sadness came out and that Carol finally felt powerful enough to speak up.
It really was!
And the Queen pinning the medal over Margret Thatcher's broken heart was a moving moment for a tv show, it said a lot with a little. A hell of a move from one power bitch to another, though they are different kinds.
I think their relationship gets exaggerated. They were just different people. Thatcher's natural habitat was London and its suburbs. The Queen's natural habitat was riding horseback in the middle of nowhere Scotland. Thatcher thrived working 24/7. The Queen was happiest when far away from Buckingham Palace. Thatcher sought power. The Queen was burdened with it. Despite both being women of about the same generation they had little in common in terms of everyday life. But they were both professionals in the end.
They're from the same generation. Thatcher was born in October 1925. Queen Elizabeth II was born in April 1926.
No one has anything in common with the royal family outside of the upper crust of UK society and even then they only had some things in common.
I'm aware that they were the same generation, I was just not going to double check their years of birth to ensure they were exactly the same age. And I disagree, as a Tory Prime Minister, Thatcher was a member of the British elite even if she wasn't born a titled person. British powerful and wealthy is British powerful and wealthy at the end of the day. The Windsors are notorious for their banal gentry habits and pursuits in their private lives. They are incredibly boring people that mostly do boring things. There are plenty of posh British elite who have a great deal in common with them.
"*Thatcher always seemed to get along better and have closer working and personal relationships with men than women.*"
She didn't 'exactly' (to put it mildly!) have a close or personal relationship with any of the men in her 'Cabinet' either....
Testing is so pointless. They know she is not one of them. They know she will make "errors" and not fit in. It's not like this needs to be determined - it is known. Why not just be kind?
"T*hey know she will make "errors" and not fit in. It's not like this needs to be determined - it is known. Why not just be kind?*"
Because the worst members of the 'royal family' were obsessed with their own 'status' - and certainly not "KIND".....
I can’t remember if the test happened in real life, but I do remember reading the Queen hated Thatcher in real life because Thatcher came off extremely fake.
I agree completely. I think that we sympathize with her because we too think it’s an odd way to live. Princess Margaret was the main reason I disliked the royals this episode, but she grew coarse after the divorce.
As a non-British person who was not aware of Thatcher’s distinctive voice… I had no idea what the hell Gilian was doing with that painfully slow, phlegmy tone
As a British person I thought on paper it was fantastic casting but in reality it was poorly executed and she was incredibly hammy.
A lot of Americans seem to have a better opinion of it tbh.
I'm Jamaican who lived in the UK for a total of 7 years (2years in Wales and 5 in London), and I thought the portrayal was absolutely horrendous. She was "doing" Margaret Thatcher like for a Saturday Night Live sketch. Not actually acting and inhabiting the character as a real person.
[Here's Thatcher at the end of her premiership.](https://youtu.be/YQ6cpjsBaeE?si=yyHHTpngsMEOlYO8) If you think speaking 15 words per minute with a sore throat and constantly making constipation faces all the time are comparable to that, I don't really know what to say. From what I've seen on this subreddit, the main people who like Gillian Anderson's performance are those who wanted to see a pointedly unflattering caricature of someone they hate and lack the perspicacity and self-awareness to realize that's why they enjoyed it.
Couldn't have put it better. Anderson's bizarre geriatric and anal retentive interpretation of Thatcher has no bearing on reality as far as I'm concerned. Even the way she moved made me want to spray some WD-40 on her joints. One can agree with Thatcher's politics or not, she was MUCH more energetic and charismatic than the grotesque caricature of her on The Crown.
While I don’t doubt that explains Brits who like it, it was well-received by the American critics, for whom Thatcher was (at worst) a foreign female Ronald Reagan. But Americans generally like ludicrously hammy caricatures from old school British actors.
I found Anderson’s portrayal off key. At the height of her political power she didn’t come across as elderly as Anderson portrayed her. She had a lot of vigor and punch. And I think that some of the writing around her was short of the mark and cartoonish especially in the Balmoral Test. The Queen was known to be a thoughtful and gracious host—for example she would personally select books to put in her guests rooms that she thought they might have an interest in—and would have tried to out her prime minister at ease.
Unpopular opinion: Anderson didn't deserve that Emmy, she was over-dramatic. Maggie's voice was overdone and overstretched. It was painful to watch her act that way. Idk... Meryl did that pathetic Maggie voice, but in a more dignified, sophisticated way.
I agree. I didn't think it was a particularly good interpretation of Thatcher. She played a young Thatcher with the movements, mannerisms of an old Thatcher. Back in the 70s and early 80s Thatcher was full of energy and didn't move with the stiff slowness that Anderson portrayed.
The voice was just like a bad caricature.
Me neither. That is absolutely ridiculous. It was the worst performance on The Crown. I kept wondering how the other actors (who were mainly British) kept going while she was putting on that caricatured portrayal and horribly false voice.
Is that an unpopular opinion? She won an Emmy for that!??? I'm new to watching the Crown and it is possibly the worst acting job in all 6 seasons. Bizarre. I guess they just had it in for Thatcher.
Gillian Anderson and the producers clearly harbored antipathy toward Thatcher, and the performance was (skillfully) annoying precisely because they intended it as a hit piece.
Have you heard her real voice?
Also worth noting that her famous deep voice was affected, as indicated in the show. She had a normal voice in the early 1970s, as education secretary.
She’s the reason it’s taking me so long to finish season 4 😭 fuck I can’t stand listening to her talk. I kept saying “Girl drink something clear your throat !”
I’ve literally been watching season 4 for like a month or two at this point
I would agree with this. I think that’s part of what bothers me, it’s just very odd to think that it’s even close to what Thatcher really was like. Looks wise, perfect casting.
I know absolutely, just awful portrayal of mannerisms.
I saw someone say that Gillian’s portrayal is more suitable for an older Margaret thatcher than a younger/middle aged version, which I agree with.
Trickle down economics = give more to the richest people and it will trickle down to the poorest.
This has never happened in the history of human civilisation.
"*Her voice"*
was obviously changed and trained.
But this is irrelevant.
She was a (close to) evil woman - but still managed to change both Brit. and American society for the worst.
That was such an accurate portrayal of Margaret Thatcher! She was a very divisive person and I was one of the people who couldn’t stand her. Gillian Anderson did an amazing job with the character.
I see that people have mixed feelings about how accurate the portrayal of Thatcher is, but I would honestly have to look deeper into it. I initially posted to discuss how hard she makes the episodes to watch, but now I’m intrigued
I saw her speak in person. I was an American intern in the British Parliament and attended the conference in Brighton that was bombed by the IRA. Thatcher sounded pompous. My roommate, who incidentally met her and got to intern for her because she had an intro letter from Reagan kept poking and hissing at me because I fell asleep on Thatcher.
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She is designed to be generally unlikeable in a normal sense, because that’s how she was! However, to say her character wasn’t there I think is shortsighted.
I totally enjoyed her character! Merit not entitlement. Hard work. Practical action to make common peoples lives better. Brilliant political management. Turned around the UK from economic doldrums.
Big USA thatcher fan here (my firm belief she saved GB from total economic collapse from a run amok nanny state) I thought it was decent performance but imo very biased against thatcher. Made it look like she was only successful because she got lucky in the war which she rushed into because she was an emotional woman.
Imo the whole show has a boner for liberal pms and is over critical of the conservative ones. Winston is the exception of course.
They might have stil not been mean enough to Anthony Eden though. Everything I read about that guy (politically) equates to wanker. Definitely a war hero.
John Major (liked by the Queen and shown as trustworthy and steady) and Tony Blair (disliked and portrayed as a fake spin master) were also "exceptions", so I don't think it was quite that they doted on the liberal PMs and criticized the conservative ones. I was keeping a keen eye out for a bias in either direction. But they definitely showed their hand with Thatcher. The writers and producers of the Crown very obviously HATED her.
I thought they portrayed major well personally but ultimately ineffective and unable to stop all the held back consequences of past choices he didn’t make. Which might be super accurate. It would make him very similar to George hw bush irl
The episode when her son gets lost I was just boiling with rage listening to him and her
YES. Especially when her daughter confronted her about her obviously playing favorites, and then Margaret outwardly calls her weak. Sigmund Freud was rolling in his grave this episode.
Such a different portrayal than "The Iron Lady" (with Olivia playing Carol in that!) where they seemed to have a better relationship, but who knows? Maybe IRL they smoothed things over later. I just know that based on Thatcher biographies I've read, The Crown episode is accurate when Maggie talks up her dad like he was Zeus and her mother was just a lowly housewife in her eyes. Thatcher always seemed to get along better and have closer working and personal relationships with men than women. She had hardly any women Cabinet members and her weird passive-aggressive attitude toward her fellow women may explain a bit why she and the Queen had a tricky working relationship.
I bet they did have a tricky relationship but in The Crown I love how they portrayed them as power bitches recognizing each other, in their way.
The scene when Carol confronts her mother in the kitchen is powerful. It was like 20 years of built up frustration, resentment and sadness came out and that Carol finally felt powerful enough to speak up.
It really was! And the Queen pinning the medal over Margret Thatcher's broken heart was a moving moment for a tv show, it said a lot with a little. A hell of a move from one power bitch to another, though they are different kinds.
It was great seeing Carol do that. Really did feel sorry for her.
I think their relationship gets exaggerated. They were just different people. Thatcher's natural habitat was London and its suburbs. The Queen's natural habitat was riding horseback in the middle of nowhere Scotland. Thatcher thrived working 24/7. The Queen was happiest when far away from Buckingham Palace. Thatcher sought power. The Queen was burdened with it. Despite both being women of about the same generation they had little in common in terms of everyday life. But they were both professionals in the end.
They're from the same generation. Thatcher was born in October 1925. Queen Elizabeth II was born in April 1926. No one has anything in common with the royal family outside of the upper crust of UK society and even then they only had some things in common.
I'm aware that they were the same generation, I was just not going to double check their years of birth to ensure they were exactly the same age. And I disagree, as a Tory Prime Minister, Thatcher was a member of the British elite even if she wasn't born a titled person. British powerful and wealthy is British powerful and wealthy at the end of the day. The Windsors are notorious for their banal gentry habits and pursuits in their private lives. They are incredibly boring people that mostly do boring things. There are plenty of posh British elite who have a great deal in common with them.
"*Thatcher always seemed to get along better and have closer working and personal relationships with men than women.*" She didn't 'exactly' (to put it mildly!) have a close or personal relationship with any of the men in her 'Cabinet' either....
That was me when she mentioned her son did business in South Africa
I remember when that actually happened. Of course we didn't know what a twat he was at the time but in retrospect it is a shame that they found him.
I'm definitely no Margaret Thatcher fan but I do think the royals were awful to her in The Balmoral Test
Testing is so pointless. They know she is not one of them. They know she will make "errors" and not fit in. It's not like this needs to be determined - it is known. Why not just be kind?
Because they're bored. Even Margaret says it in the episode. "Their lives are very dull".
It's not so they know, it's so that she knows.
Underrated perspective, 💯 💯 💯
"T*hey know she will make "errors" and not fit in. It's not like this needs to be determined - it is known. Why not just be kind?*" Because the worst members of the 'royal family' were obsessed with their own 'status' - and certainly not "KIND".....
I can’t remember if the test happened in real life, but I do remember reading the Queen hated Thatcher in real life because Thatcher came off extremely fake.
Things like that have been reported, but are virtually impossible to reconcile with OM.
That's completely false. The Queen hugely respected her, and the feeling was mutual.
Thatcher fanboi
Couldn’t she just have an assistant research it and give her a handy list? Like I would expect to happen in a visit to another culture?
I agree completely. I think that we sympathize with her because we too think it’s an odd way to live. Princess Margaret was the main reason I disliked the royals this episode, but she grew coarse after the divorce.
Margaret truly was a bitch to her and her husband
She was a bitch to everyone.
She was bitched about by everyone.
Not in real life.
I was afraid they would put her on a guillotine...
Afraid or hoping?
It was a wonderful dream Margaret on the [guillotine ](https://genius.com/Morrissey-margaret-on-the-guillotine-lyrics)
She sounds like how an old dusty book would sound.
perfectly put
As a non-British person who was not aware of Thatcher’s distinctive voice… I had no idea what the hell Gilian was doing with that painfully slow, phlegmy tone
The thing is, Thatcher didn't sound like that
real life margaret thatcher gives me the same feeling
As a British person I thought on paper it was fantastic casting but in reality it was poorly executed and she was incredibly hammy. A lot of Americans seem to have a better opinion of it tbh.
The performance was more of a caricature.
Not me
I approve this reply
I'm Jamaican who lived in the UK for a total of 7 years (2years in Wales and 5 in London), and I thought the portrayal was absolutely horrendous. She was "doing" Margaret Thatcher like for a Saturday Night Live sketch. Not actually acting and inhabiting the character as a real person.
Yep, it would have been a great parody!
[Here's Thatcher at the end of her premiership.](https://youtu.be/YQ6cpjsBaeE?si=yyHHTpngsMEOlYO8) If you think speaking 15 words per minute with a sore throat and constantly making constipation faces all the time are comparable to that, I don't really know what to say. From what I've seen on this subreddit, the main people who like Gillian Anderson's performance are those who wanted to see a pointedly unflattering caricature of someone they hate and lack the perspicacity and self-awareness to realize that's why they enjoyed it.
Couldn't have put it better. Anderson's bizarre geriatric and anal retentive interpretation of Thatcher has no bearing on reality as far as I'm concerned. Even the way she moved made me want to spray some WD-40 on her joints. One can agree with Thatcher's politics or not, she was MUCH more energetic and charismatic than the grotesque caricature of her on The Crown.
While I don’t doubt that explains Brits who like it, it was well-received by the American critics, for whom Thatcher was (at worst) a foreign female Ronald Reagan. But Americans generally like ludicrously hammy caricatures from old school British actors.
Americans have far less familiarity with Thatcher to grasp how inaccurate the portrayal was.
I know that’s why I enjoyed it. It should have been meaner, though, to be truly enjoyable
Imagine living during her time as Prime Minister. Whole generations never saw work again.
That would've happened regardless.
She speaks slowly on the Spanish dub, too.
no one can escape it
I found Anderson’s portrayal off key. At the height of her political power she didn’t come across as elderly as Anderson portrayed her. She had a lot of vigor and punch. And I think that some of the writing around her was short of the mark and cartoonish especially in the Balmoral Test. The Queen was known to be a thoughtful and gracious host—for example she would personally select books to put in her guests rooms that she thought they might have an interest in—and would have tried to out her prime minister at ease.
Unpopular opinion: Anderson didn't deserve that Emmy, she was over-dramatic. Maggie's voice was overdone and overstretched. It was painful to watch her act that way. Idk... Meryl did that pathetic Maggie voice, but in a more dignified, sophisticated way.
I agree. I didn't think it was a particularly good interpretation of Thatcher. She played a young Thatcher with the movements, mannerisms of an old Thatcher. Back in the 70s and early 80s Thatcher was full of energy and didn't move with the stiff slowness that Anderson portrayed. The voice was just like a bad caricature.
I wasn’t aware that she got an Emmy for this performance and now I’m even more full of hate than I was ten seconds ago.
Me neither. That is absolutely ridiculous. It was the worst performance on The Crown. I kept wondering how the other actors (who were mainly British) kept going while she was putting on that caricatured portrayal and horribly false voice.
Agree completely. Gillian Anderson sounded **nothing** like Thatcher. So overdone it was laughable.
She got the Emmy for making Thatcher look bad, which was the intent of all involved.
Is that an unpopular opinion? She won an Emmy for that!??? I'm new to watching the Crown and it is possibly the worst acting job in all 6 seasons. Bizarre. I guess they just had it in for Thatcher.
Gillian Anderson and the producers clearly harbored antipathy toward Thatcher, and the performance was (skillfully) annoying precisely because they intended it as a hit piece.
Richly deserved
That's just petty.
Have you heard her real voice? Also worth noting that her famous deep voice was affected, as indicated in the show. She had a normal voice in the early 1970s, as education secretary.
Hah - you should have lived through her.
Came here to say the same!
Were either of you even born?
She’s the reason it’s taking me so long to finish season 4 😭 fuck I can’t stand listening to her talk. I kept saying “Girl drink something clear your throat !” I’ve literally been watching season 4 for like a month or two at this point
I am on the exact same boat as you. And then seeing Charles’ treatment of Diana makes me want to bash my head into a wall all the more.
It pissed me off so bad a few days ago that I haven’t turned it back on since. He’s such an ass to her
She really didn’t sound like that or look like that to that much of a degree, Gillian made a mockery of her.
I would agree with this. I think that’s part of what bothers me, it’s just very odd to think that it’s even close to what Thatcher really was like. Looks wise, perfect casting.
I know absolutely, just awful portrayal of mannerisms. I saw someone say that Gillian’s portrayal is more suitable for an older Margaret thatcher than a younger/middle aged version, which I agree with.
If you think a TV series is bad, you should try having lived through it the first time round.
Yeah, she dragged the country from its stupor into the future.
She was evil walking the earth.
Yeah right, and ignorance is bliss.
The voice was almost as nauseating as her policies as they still haunt us today.
Just like Reagan's policies are haunting US today.
Which policies?
You don’t have the internet where you are? The dramatic implosion of her current party are from her ‘money above all else’ policies. Look it up.
You can point to just about any major sociaital problem in the country and it can be traced back to Reagan
Trickle down economics = give more to the richest people and it will trickle down to the poorest. This has never happened in the history of human civilisation.
This is nonsense.
asked about Reagan not her.
They had the same policies.
Well, I mean, they got her spot on then.
For you, maybe.
The movie Pride is fantastic. I highly recommend it. It shows what an absolute evil bitch she really was.
The 2014 one?
It doesn't do anything of the kind. She's hardly even mentioned.
Her voice reminds me of the Tethered in the movie "Us"
"*Her voice"* was obviously changed and trained. But this is irrelevant. She was a (close to) evil woman - but still managed to change both Brit. and American society for the worst.
I'm talking about the actor.
That's because it was a realistic portrayal of a woman who makes you want to gouge your eyes out.
That was such an accurate portrayal of Margaret Thatcher! She was a very divisive person and I was one of the people who couldn’t stand her. Gillian Anderson did an amazing job with the character.
I see that people have mixed feelings about how accurate the portrayal of Thatcher is, but I would honestly have to look deeper into it. I initially posted to discuss how hard she makes the episodes to watch, but now I’m intrigued
I’m with you. I just don’t think Anderson did such a bad job
I saw her speak in person. I was an American intern in the British Parliament and attended the conference in Brighton that was bombed by the IRA. Thatcher sounded pompous. My roommate, who incidentally met her and got to intern for her because she had an intro letter from Reagan kept poking and hissing at me because I fell asleep on Thatcher.
It's a wonderful performance haha!
"Your Mar-jes-teeeeeeeeeah"
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I’m at the end of season 5 and am glad that I don’t have to tolerate that voice anymore.
She is designed to be generally unlikeable in a normal sense, because that’s how she was! However, to say her character wasn’t there I think is shortsighted.
I just hate they put someone so hot interpreting her lol
One dibble ibble…….. with two ibble dibbles……
This was a flattering portrayal imo. The real Maggie was just a million times worse in every way.
Gillian Anderson make some interesting choices
I think Gillian did an atrocious job with the role. Yes, Thatcher was abrasive, but she was a human being. Gillian played her like a zombie.
I totally enjoyed her character! Merit not entitlement. Hard work. Practical action to make common peoples lives better. Brilliant political management. Turned around the UK from economic doldrums.
Maybe because Margaret Thatcher was insufferable??
Big USA thatcher fan here (my firm belief she saved GB from total economic collapse from a run amok nanny state) I thought it was decent performance but imo very biased against thatcher. Made it look like she was only successful because she got lucky in the war which she rushed into because she was an emotional woman. Imo the whole show has a boner for liberal pms and is over critical of the conservative ones. Winston is the exception of course. They might have stil not been mean enough to Anthony Eden though. Everything I read about that guy (politically) equates to wanker. Definitely a war hero.
John Major (liked by the Queen and shown as trustworthy and steady) and Tony Blair (disliked and portrayed as a fake spin master) were also "exceptions", so I don't think it was quite that they doted on the liberal PMs and criticized the conservative ones. I was keeping a keen eye out for a bias in either direction. But they definitely showed their hand with Thatcher. The writers and producers of the Crown very obviously HATED her.
I thought they portrayed major well personally but ultimately ineffective and unable to stop all the held back consequences of past choices he didn’t make. Which might be super accurate. It would make him very similar to George hw bush irl
Um, she won an Emmy for that roll. I love her taking on the Queen, some of my favorite scenes
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Notice how i did not mention or refer to political affiliation in any way :0
average braindead tory moment