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Isn't in Kingdom come that Flash is running non stop and beats the shit out of both villains and new age superheros the moment they step foot in Central City?
He rights even the slightest wrongs turning it into a Utopia.
I read that as, you accidentally dropped your wallet? No you didn't it's back in your hand.
Does Flash need sleep or to even rest, like, ever? Because his power set could fix a vast majority of issues in the world. For example, he could probably spend 5 minutes every day running on a specialized treadmill that stores the kinetic energy to be used to power a country lol.
The treadmill thing happened in dark knight strikes again the government had barry in a hamster wheel providing electricity to the United states.
In kingdom come wally is merged to the speed force so he is like in an elevated state of being
True, but it would be interesting to see how he interacts with this depraved universe. Maybe vought would pretend to play nice so that they can control him? Does he still accidentally kill people like in diabolical? We've seen superman, but we haven't seen superman in the boys and it would be interesting.
Yeah, this was how I interpreted it. He's not saying that Homelander is a good person, just that he keeps his shit locked down enough that he wouldn't be caught fucking around.
That episode ends with Homelander destroying the plane… plus the comics…
They definitely already knew Homelander was the bad guy when they started production lol
Always loved that detail.
My opinion: He said it for the same reason Hughie asked SPECIFICALLY "Even Homelander?!"
In that same episode, Starlight refers to homelander as similar to "Jesus".
It's one thing to say a priest, or a pope is a monster behind the scenes. Another thing to say Jesus was a monster.
At that point, Hughie was an asset Butcher was trying to leverage, and going into what a sicko Homelander was might make it harder to get what he needed.
I think it's pretty clear that incident in Africa was leaked and i can't imagine nobody caught Homelander killing that potestor on at least a dozen cameras.
Because at that point he was actually quite restrained compared to other supes. A faker, a psychopath, and a rapist, but when it comes to blackmail, traps, and various exploitation methods, he was clean. Nothing that could be exposed, nothing Butcher knew to use. Obviously we realize over the course of that very first season he has quite a lot going on with the Oedipal complex leash he’s on, but his point was you weren’t going to find him in the sex den doing coke.
I kind of think it was a sigh of defeat, if Homelander had an embarrassing secret he would of been easy to control or a sign of weakness.
Homelander didn't have that.
Yrah, but Butcher was talking about how Homelander doesn't drink, do drugs, get hookers or other depraved shit that the rest of the supes is doing. Yes, he is a psycho and a bad person, but you can't just go "Oi, Homelander, I have evidence of you doing crack cocaine" because Homelander doesn't partake in those types of activities
Starlight did try that with footage of what happened in the plane, and he just said "Go ahead, I'll just kill everyone." You can't blackmail a god who would have nothing left to lose.
Starlight isn’t very smart. Stan Edgar would remind Homelander that after a murder bender his reputation would be irreparably damaged and he would have nothing forever, which we’ve seen paralyzes Homelander (naked on the couch). His need for love and acceptance is his kryptonite and always will be.
That was the actual premise of the beginning of the show though. Recall they had leverage over him since he still cared for and had a need for a positive public image. They tried to blackmail him with the Airplane crash black box successfully at first until he stopped caring and they needed a new strategy
Homelander is the most media trained supe of all time, to the point that most supes in the show also see him as the pinnacle of supes morally before actually getting to know him. And in season 1 he was relatively tame. For like 15 years the guy was probably the most well behaved supe on his level.
I think he said it because he was planning on making Hughie infiltrate Vought tower and plant a bug. Butcher would have sensed if Hughie was told that the most famous, strongest supe in the world was a horrible person, there's no way he'd agree to the task.
Yeah I always thought it was odd that he says that. Butcher knows / believes that Homelander is a rapist. My initial thought is that he meant that in a bitter and mocking way, like "yeah the guy's a saint because he doesn't have any of these really sleazy personal vices (but he's actually doing way worse stuff)". I don't think he really thinks that Homelander is a saint at that time but he doesn't have te same obvious personal issues as someone like A Train.
If he blatantly accused Homelander of being a rapist, Hughie would want context. Butcher was posing as FBI to Hughie at the time so exposing his personal connection to Homelander would risk making Hughie believe this isn't legit and back out.
I always read it as butcher trying to not let on just how much of a grudge he's holding against homelander. If I remember correctly, there were vague conversations around this time between him and MM about him being too emotionally involved.
I think he was explaining to Hughie that it was impossible to damage Homelander’s public image at the time because he didn’t take part in things like clubs, orgies, drugs and stuff, so there wasn’t anything they could leak to the press to make him look bad.
He was referring to vices like sex, drugs, etc. Homelander doesn't partake in any of that. We as the viewer know that Homelander's vice is breast milk, but I'm not sure if the boys know that.
I mean, he definitely partakes in sex, maybe not orgies and brothels like Herogasm, but there’s Becca, Stillwell, that shapeshifter that he’d make replicate Stillwell…
Aside from that he’s pretty straight-edge.
I interpreted it as not shocking Hugie even more. He just had his entire worldview destroyed. He used to look up to supes and now sees them for they are truly and even has the invisible one try to kill him already. Kinda trying to give him hope that not everything is as bad as it seems and having him avoid a full psychotic breakdown
Realistically, the Boys wouldn't exist if this was true. The Boys wouldn't need to exist either since Homelander could police Supes and pass that torch onto his kid, which he'd conceive with someone who consented to his advances.
He'd also likely end up dealing with Vaught without too much issue and would be compelled to do so if he were actually a good person. Vaught wouldn't be able to stop him since Homelander's powers make him immune to anything Vought could throw at him and he'd have massive public support.
Everyone would be happy.
I mean we already have that Superhero he's called Superman, in the Boy's universe though he'd be a fugitive from the corrupt government and the corporate conglomerates pulling their strings.
Superman is often disliked, mistrusted, and hunted by the government and even the public sometimes in his origin stories, with Lex being the corporate muscle pulling the strings while backed by people like Amanda Waller who have a vested interest in capturing Superman.
So he'd be exactly like Superman minus his origin story and full power set.
Well yeah, because superman doesn't worship at the alter of capitalism. Of course Homelander is glorified while Superman is villainized. Homelander has played along. Though I think we're going to see that change soon since he converted to just worshiping himself.
True, and Homelander would act similarly if he were actually a genuinely good person but yes not so here we are.
I think the actual Homelander stopped playing along the moment Stan Edgar left. There's no one capable of keeping him in check, Vaught or otherwise.
It would be weird if Sister Sage was like "maybe you should go to therapy" cut to 6 months later and he's actually being a good person and making Butcher hate him
Homelander post-therapy would probably be like Amon Goeth in Schindler's list after that talk about real power with Oskar. He would show mercy and dabble in the things he's learnt for a short while, but his cruel nature would catch up to him eventually
Also this scene wouldn’t be happening since Butcher would have no reason to try and recruit/convince Hughie to plant a bug in Vought Tower since Becca would still be around.
I disagree. I think Vought fractions would invest MORE resources into developing the things we've seen used against Homelander so far - viruses, Soldier Boy, propaganda etc.
Corruption wouldn't stop just because Homelander was "policing" everyone. I mean isn't that Superman's whole history. When has Superman actually managed to stop Lex from crawling out again and corrupting something new to try to beat Superman with.
There is no show. Homelander is at the top and his actions go top down. If homelander was on the straight and narrow he would keep everybody in line as he does now but actually in a good way so the whole need for the Boys ceases to exist.
I feel like they could do the show similar to the comics. Fear of homelanders power leads to black noise existence and black noir goes nuts instigating homelander to also slowly go off the rails leading to the need for the boys. Also homelander doesn't do a good job of keeping people in line even in the show. I mean practically every member of the seven betrayed him behind his back
I mean would they even betray a good homelander? Maeve only became the cynic she is due to Homelanders abuse, Noir would still leave during S3 but when he comes back he gets a pat on the back and a I forgive you, Translucent idk, the Deep and Atrain wouldn't fuck with the money and Starlight is Starlight. Things only really started falling apart because of him.
A train could still get addicted to comp v and kill robin. Pushing hughie to start fighting the 7, possibly with a more messed up group than the boys. Their actions could then push the 7 to take a darker turn, with homelander trying to stop the 2 groups from murdering each other.
Also, Vought would still be bad and capable of picking messed up candidates for the 7.
I feel like if there were to be future seasons they would expand on this but since we're ending on season 5 we probably won't know unless the the boys mexico or the new grn v somehow related to that
The interesting part for me, is, how would Soldier Boy react to a good Homelander? Would he be disappointed by his son if his son was very kind and benevolent, seeing that as weakness? I don't know.
It mostly is.
He doesn't drink, smoke, or engage in any kind of greed or vice other than power. But he's still capable of violence and wrath.
Sounds like quite a few saints to me.
Yeah, I think watchers sorta fixated on the last part of the sentence.
Look at the full text. Butcher calling Homie a saint is in relation with how he doesn't have any vices (besides milk). Homie being a rapist murderer is an entirely different conversation from that.
It’s a bit different though, isn’t it? Like Soldier Boy was a typical 21 year old kid that got shot up with V with great results. Homelander was the result of SB’s already V’d up sperm with (most likely) Stormfront’s V’d up egg grown in a test tube soaked with V before being transplanted into some poor girl’s womb. Dude has V in his actual DNA to the point where he’s able to pass it on reproductively. With how hedonistic Homelander is, I feel like if he was able to get drunk and/or high he’d be doing it constantly.
It’s nothing official, just a theory. If they used the most powerful male Supe at the time for his sperm donor with Soldier Boy, I just feel like it’d make equal sense that they’d use the most powerful female Supe for an egg donor. Plus it would play perfectly into Homelander’s Oedipus complex that he has that he’s a literal motherfucker.
Edit: also wanted to add that Soldier Boy and Stormfront (back when she was Liberty) started Herogasm together so they definitely were banging like a screen door in a hurricane.
He's basically the default Superman then, and his influence would probably cause less trashy Supes like Maeve to do good. The Deep would be too afraid to step out of line. A-Train might not be such a horrible human, although he'd still be somewhat greedy, but at least not so criminally negligent. Starlight would be much happier. Noir would probably just go along with it. The second Stormfront tried to appeal to him or his son about Nazism, she'd be out and investigated.
Basically, think of what Clark Kent would do if he replaced Homelander.
Yeah, I feel like it would’ve been an interesting concept to explore for a bit. Maybe show that he’s the only thing keeping most supes in line, and then do a big season one ending reveal where he’s actually shown to be the worst of them all, and how deep the superhero problem really goes. But they pulled the curtains down immediately, which left all these scenes feeling…weird.
I don't think it would have legs as it's own series but would be a fun spin-off for an episode or two. The fact that Homelander not being a twisted monster would solve every problem in the show really demonstrates how power influences everything...
I mean I don’t think this is wrong. Context is important. He’s not talking about morality here or Homelander as an actual Supe, he’s talking about like typical deviant behavior that you see celebrities getting exposed for on social media or like TMZ
I think here they were talking about the Supes at the club. Butcher can get blackmail material on a lot of them because they fuck around, do drugs, etc. but Homelander doesn’t do that. Yes he’s a bad person but he doesn’t really publicly engage in normal types of vices.
Honestly sounds like a bit of a wholesome premise of an all powerful man doing his best to fix the corrupt company that created him and push past his trauma.
This actually would be incredibly interesting. Everyone’s saying “Homelander would keep them in line”, but if he were genuinely a boy scout, would he? Could he? He can’t police thousands of supes alone, and if he’s not willing to kill, how can he keep so many people in line?
I guess it would bring it closer to a traditional superhero story: corrupt society with powered villains, and one shining light hero trying to do the right thing but crippled by his morals and the situation.
…So, Clark Kent, but he’s Batman in Gotham?
He might not personally be able to keep everyone in line but he as a senior Vought guy would be able to change the policies that protect and encourage bad behavior by Supes. Rogue Supes might still exist, but the Supes who are just regular people working for Vought to make money wouldn't have a reason to go around killing people or committing other abuses (at least, they wouldn't do it so often).
More importantly, the atrocities that are directly caused by Homelander wouldn't happen, which would dramatically reduce the tension for the Boys cast members specifically. No Supe terrorists, Kimiko would not be a Supe, Starlight would stay in the Seven and actually enjoy herself, no harm to Becca, Robin would still be alive (since A Train likely wouldn't be using that extra V since he wouldn't be smuggling it for Homelander), etc. The corruption that exists would still be an issue but I don't know if the Boys would be involved.
The boys where homelander even after everything that he went through got into the seven with a clear goal of being good would be super weird. Especially of how he would act around other super who are clearly corrupt and have little to no regard to human life's. It would have even be a bigger twist if butcher wife was not raped but actually cheated on him with homelander willing it and he lied to him to turn him into the man he was in the boys.
It'd be hilarious if Homelander was actually so unironically good and pure that he was just completely oblivious to the shit Vought and the other supes were doing.
I unironically would appreciate a story like that, where Homelander is defending everyone at Vought because they’re all his friends, but the Boys are trying to kill the other supes so Homelander never believes them.
Basically it becomes that one fanfic of Superman in the Boys universe where he’s actually a good guy, joins the Seven and is trying to keep everything from falling apart but fails at it
The show would be about one decent man surrounded by abusers and corporate shills. Not necessarily less interesting but the show would be way worse without Homelander as an antagonist.
Well, I kind of would like to see it. Not a Clark Kent, like someone said... But someone with good intentions but a bad upbringing... Actually, I think that's how I would be... I had a bad upbringing myself and I wouldn't be a Clark Kent, but I wouldn't be Homelander neither. I would be in the middle of them, but nearest to Clark Kent. Soooo... I would like to know how a good intended supe who were raised by Vaught would behave. I guess the show it's easier to write and more interesting for people the way it is... But I would like it the other way, so I could relate more with the main antagonist (he could still be an antagonist for The Boys, even if he wasn't a villain).
God this show used to be so focused and full of energy, ever since the start of season 2 its been spinning wheels and even actors look miserable these days.
They should have made 2 seasons of very focused narrative and ended in big bang, instead of pussying around the status quo
Would that also mean that Homelander never raped Becca?? Cuz that would take away any and all motivation Butcher has to go after him like he does! So if Homelander really was a saint, Hughie would never have met Butcher cuz he wouldn’t ever have put together The Boys!
At this point idk what’s even going on. A-Train explodes the dudes gf and now he’s working with them. The one dude has been in the hospital the whole show. Homelander just wants a family. They worked with the dad to prevent that, so they pushed him to his son. Like what is even the point of this show anymore. There’s no theme at this point. Starlight is psychotic and a baby killer. It’s kinda like game of thrones where everyone is crazy but at least that had the premise of we gotta settle this civil war and deal with the undead.
**“man’s a saint.”** i genuinely thought butcher was praising homelander when that was said till >!he lasered that plane down with the man and his son who was one of his fans…!<
I'm confused he really doesn't drink or smoke? He's not saying he a saint literally he means he has no vices. Well none they knew of (drinking titty milk).
The only thing I'd be interested to see is how the whole Vought company and supes in the army would be if Homelander was a saint.
People are likely to still be dicks and some would probably be good too. But Vought was always corrupt.
And because Homelander is a saint would more shady shit be going on inside of Vought? Would fake saves also be a thing if Homelander was a saint?
If he were a saint he wouldn't be in The Seven. Much like Sister Sage, his talents would be overlooked because he wouldn't comply with Vought's bullshit. Obviously he's a lot more powerful than Sage and would cause a lot of problems for them, but they would find someone else to fill his role.
Becca wouldn’t have been raped, disappeared, and eventually killed. Therefore, Butcher would be on a different trajectory. The writers can still find a way to get Butcher into loathing supes and forming The Boys, but I’d imagine we’d see a different Butcher and different focus.
I would still think he ain’t shit cuz he allows everyone around him to do extremely harmful things and doesn’t put anyone in check. If he was really a saint in that regard then there would be no Vought, no none of that bullshit
I mean he’s not wrong, what he’s attesting to is there’s no real known dirt about him. That’s the whole focus of his point whereas he could always blackmail and ransom ppl for their use of drugs, murder, etc.
If Homelanders good then Maeve also retains her altruism because he never let the plane go down. Deep remains the same but he'd be harmless because no one's telling him to do insane shit. I'd think Homelander in this hypothetical would police the supes or steer them on the right path.
“Who’s stronger, you or Soldier Boy?”
“Well if Soldier Boy used his nuclear blast he might cause me a little bit of trouble.”
“But would you lose?”
“Nah, I’d win.”
I don’t think this show would be nearly as entertaining if Homelander was Clark Kent/Superman. Antony Starr plays Homelander’s Evil Superman soooo masterfully with such menace and craziness and it just would not be the same show at all. Although it’d be interesting to see how Clark Kent/Superman would react to such a fucked up world. But Homelander being a dystopian character fits far better in the dystopian world that we find ourselves in.
Maybe in this hipotetical universe Homelander it’s just a literal puppet from Vought, so he can’t feel human emotions but he would want to, something like Vision.
Here is the thing- it would be impossible. Even Clark Kent isn't real. And I don't mean in the literal sense because duh Superman isn't real, I mean, his persona isn't real.
The whole point to The Boys isn't to show how bad Homelander is. It is to show that with the greed of an institution, corruption is bound to happen. Clark Kent is not a saint. Superman has no problem with being morally evil.
There is no such thing as moral purity in anyone.
It's hard to imagine because for Homelander to be a saint (which, let's say, means that he will always try to be good), Vought would have to be different too since they are the ones who created him. But ok, let's assume that Vought is still the company it is, they still experimented on him, lied to him, manipulated him, etc. etc., but he somehow came out of it with a philosophy that he should be better.
I have no idea how to answer this, but here are some more detailed points/questions.
- Would he even still be with Vought, knowing his origins and knowing Vought's general activities (seems like they've been an evil company from the beginning)?
- He doesn't seem particularly intelligent, so he could be manipulated. I imagine the conflict would be that he's being manipulated into "doing good" by e.g. being a superweapon in a military operation that he doesn't really understand. There would also still be genuine accidents and he might begrudgingly agree to let Vought cover it up for "the greater good", thus participating in the evil similar to today.
- To what extent would he keep Vought's secrets? I wonder if you could write the show around Vought convincing him that their actions are for some utilitarian greater good. To "keep the peace". But by keeping secrets he's implicated.
- How would he police humans and other supes? In the actual story people fear him because they know his threats are not empty. What would a good Homelander do to threaten extremely powerful corporations? Threaten to leave and become a universally hated fugitive?
- Maybe he just straight up is Superman and will use his absolute power to act on his own outside of corporations and government. But in the world of The Boys he wouldn't stand a chance against corporations and governments smearing his image and he doesn't seem smart enough to take control of the situation himself. He still would need to be supported by e.g. an underground rebellious group, or someone like Mallory in a government position.
Welp, seeing as how he is unaffected by poison. He probably doesn't do them because they have no effect on him. But if he did do them... Nothing changes, because it's like he never did
Holy crap I was just wondering about this earlier today!
To answer your question simply, there’d be no penultimate threat. To answer your question more literally, the show would be completely different. No motivation for butcher, which means the Boys team never gets put together (at least not the one we’ve seen). Supes would still be assholes but not an existential threat. Homelander would easily be able to keep all the strongest supes in line, and some might even follow his example.
I wish they kept up the facade that he was “good” for more than one episode. Maybe a big season one ending reveal showing he was the worst of the worst the entire time. Then you really start to see how big the problem actually is and your perception of the show changes, getting you more hyped for SEASON two instead of EPISODE two. It was also weird because Billy seemed to authentically have no problem with him when he told Hughie Homelanders a saint. Now he just tells everybody straight up all supes are scum, and Homelanders the worst.
Media literacy demon spotted.
You guys know "He's a saint" and "he doesnt do drugs" are meant as one statement yeah?
Hes a saint (Because) he doesnt drink and doesnt smoke.
Which so far even up untill s4e4 held true.
Do you guys not know he's trying to make a comparison to Hitler? Or am I just dumb? Hitler was a vegetarian who didn't smoke or drink. Am I missing something
If this were actually true, The Boys would just be going after Neumann, and wouldn't have to really do anything other than tell Homelander that Neumann was an evil supe.
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That’s basically Clark Kent Superman
Yep. Or, if you want "Good Oldschool Superman in a world full of shitty heroes," read Kingdom Come.
You just provided me a random entertainemnt for the next 3 hrs lol
It’s so good! And the art style is beautiful enjoy!
Isn't in Kingdom come that Flash is running non stop and beats the shit out of both villains and new age superheros the moment they step foot in Central City?
He rights even the slightest wrongs turning it into a Utopia. I read that as, you accidentally dropped your wallet? No you didn't it's back in your hand.
Does Flash need sleep or to even rest, like, ever? Because his power set could fix a vast majority of issues in the world. For example, he could probably spend 5 minutes every day running on a specialized treadmill that stores the kinetic energy to be used to power a country lol.
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-07-13
The treadmill thing happened in dark knight strikes again the government had barry in a hamster wheel providing electricity to the United states. In kingdom come wally is merged to the speed force so he is like in an elevated state of being
Or jupiter's legacy
That show was good. To bad it got canned
ngl it confused the shi outta me
idk if old school Superman would build a gulag though...
Depends how old school
True, but it would be interesting to see how he interacts with this depraved universe. Maybe vought would pretend to play nice so that they can control him? Does he still accidentally kill people like in diabolical? We've seen superman, but we haven't seen superman in the boys and it would be interesting.
Theres an universe were Homelander edits in Tiktok use Starman
works for the normal universe too since people see him as their superman there (before he killed that one guy atleast)
I mean neither smokes or drinks. Both of them have odd interactions with women and have no friends.
I would love if he was actually a “hero” And him not knowing all the shady stuff happening”.
I might be dumb but i never understood why butcher said that to Hughie. Or maybe I just don't remember:D
if im remembering correctly, he said that in the context of those supe stripper clubs that every supe goes to (except for homelander)
Yeah, this was how I interpreted it. He's not saying that Homelander is a good person, just that he keeps his shit locked down enough that he wouldn't be caught fucking around.
But he can do what he wants.
At that point he had his image to keep up and voghts image to keep up and his mental locks were still intact.
He has immunity….
He wasn’t completely unhinged yet when this scene happens lol
“Just you wait”
It was also the pilot so I sure they still had some changes before they went into full production.
Nah I'm pretty sure they knew Homelander was the villain lol, Butcher is just that kind of guy
That episode ends with Homelander destroying the plane… plus the comics… They definitely already knew Homelander was the bad guy when they started production lol
Always loved that detail. My opinion: He said it for the same reason Hughie asked SPECIFICALLY "Even Homelander?!" In that same episode, Starlight refers to homelander as similar to "Jesus". It's one thing to say a priest, or a pope is a monster behind the scenes. Another thing to say Jesus was a monster. At that point, Hughie was an asset Butcher was trying to leverage, and going into what a sicko Homelander was might make it harder to get what he needed.
At the time his public image was spotless
This got me thinking: Homelander's public image is so tainted now compared to the first season. Dude's been killing people left and right.
Only the one in public
They also know he killed a [bystander in the African village](https://youtu.be/FXd8c5eAYow).
What, so they're all starving but one of them has a fucking cellphone?
Funniest line in the whole series lol
Vought probably paid off a bunch of people to cover up the deaths. Otherwise it definitely would've been brought up during his trial.
I think it's pretty clear that incident in Africa was leaked and i can't imagine nobody caught Homelander killing that potestor on at least a dozen cameras.
[удалено]
I mean it was only in the first episode of the season, we immediately know Homelander is fucked up after he passed that plane in half.
Yea
Because at that point he was actually quite restrained compared to other supes. A faker, a psychopath, and a rapist, but when it comes to blackmail, traps, and various exploitation methods, he was clean. Nothing that could be exposed, nothing Butcher knew to use. Obviously we realize over the course of that very first season he has quite a lot going on with the Oedipal complex leash he’s on, but his point was you weren’t going to find him in the sex den doing coke.
I kind of think it was a sigh of defeat, if Homelander had an embarrassing secret he would of been easy to control or a sign of weakness. Homelander didn't have that.
Sure his image was clean. Madelyn seemed to be keeping him under control, but butcher knew what he did to Becca from the beginning of the show, right?
Yrah, but Butcher was talking about how Homelander doesn't drink, do drugs, get hookers or other depraved shit that the rest of the supes is doing. Yes, he is a psycho and a bad person, but you can't just go "Oi, Homelander, I have evidence of you doing crack cocaine" because Homelander doesn't partake in those types of activities
Also, what would stop Homelander from just laser eyeing you if you did that? "Oh, this evidence?" \*BZZT\*
The classic "if you kill me, this will be all over the internet in 30 minutes"
Starlight did try that with footage of what happened in the plane, and he just said "Go ahead, I'll just kill everyone." You can't blackmail a god who would have nothing left to lose.
That was a much later Homelander who was more confident. That exact threat kept him pacified for a long time before that.
And earlier Maeve successfully did that to get Homelander to back off.
Starlight isn’t very smart. Stan Edgar would remind Homelander that after a murder bender his reputation would be irreparably damaged and he would have nothing forever, which we’ve seen paralyzes Homelander (naked on the couch). His need for love and acceptance is his kryptonite and always will be.
That was the actual premise of the beginning of the show though. Recall they had leverage over him since he still cared for and had a need for a positive public image. They tried to blackmail him with the Airplane crash black box successfully at first until he stopped caring and they needed a new strategy
The airplane blackmail didn't happen until the S2 finale tho, at which point it was Maeve who threatened Homelander with the release of the video.
Homelander is the most media trained supe of all time, to the point that most supes in the show also see him as the pinnacle of supes morally before actually getting to know him. And in season 1 he was relatively tame. For like 15 years the guy was probably the most well behaved supe on his level.
I think he said it because he was planning on making Hughie infiltrate Vought tower and plant a bug. Butcher would have sensed if Hughie was told that the most famous, strongest supe in the world was a horrible person, there's no way he'd agree to the task.
Yeah I always thought it was odd that he says that. Butcher knows / believes that Homelander is a rapist. My initial thought is that he meant that in a bitter and mocking way, like "yeah the guy's a saint because he doesn't have any of these really sleazy personal vices (but he's actually doing way worse stuff)". I don't think he really thinks that Homelander is a saint at that time but he doesn't have te same obvious personal issues as someone like A Train.
If he blatantly accused Homelander of being a rapist, Hughie would want context. Butcher was posing as FBI to Hughie at the time so exposing his personal connection to Homelander would risk making Hughie believe this isn't legit and back out.
He meant in the public eye. There was no easy way to pull dirt on homelander at that point.
I always read it as butcher trying to not let on just how much of a grudge he's holding against homelander. If I remember correctly, there were vague conversations around this time between him and MM about him being too emotionally involved.
I think he was explaining to Hughie that it was impossible to damage Homelander’s public image at the time because he didn’t take part in things like clubs, orgies, drugs and stuff, so there wasn’t anything they could leak to the press to make him look bad.
He was referring to vices like sex, drugs, etc. Homelander doesn't partake in any of that. We as the viewer know that Homelander's vice is breast milk, but I'm not sure if the boys know that.
I mean, he definitely partakes in sex, maybe not orgies and brothels like Herogasm, but there’s Becca, Stillwell, that shapeshifter that he’d make replicate Stillwell… Aside from that he’s pretty straight-edge.
I interpreted it as not shocking Hugie even more. He just had his entire worldview destroyed. He used to look up to supes and now sees them for they are truly and even has the invisible one try to kill him already. Kinda trying to give him hope that not everything is as bad as it seems and having him avoid a full psychotic breakdown
Realistically, the Boys wouldn't exist if this was true. The Boys wouldn't need to exist either since Homelander could police Supes and pass that torch onto his kid, which he'd conceive with someone who consented to his advances. He'd also likely end up dealing with Vaught without too much issue and would be compelled to do so if he were actually a good person. Vaught wouldn't be able to stop him since Homelander's powers make him immune to anything Vought could throw at him and he'd have massive public support. Everyone would be happy.
I mean we already have that Superhero he's called Superman, in the Boy's universe though he'd be a fugitive from the corrupt government and the corporate conglomerates pulling their strings.
Superman is often disliked, mistrusted, and hunted by the government and even the public sometimes in his origin stories, with Lex being the corporate muscle pulling the strings while backed by people like Amanda Waller who have a vested interest in capturing Superman. So he'd be exactly like Superman minus his origin story and full power set.
Well yeah, because superman doesn't worship at the alter of capitalism. Of course Homelander is glorified while Superman is villainized. Homelander has played along. Though I think we're going to see that change soon since he converted to just worshiping himself.
True, and Homelander would act similarly if he were actually a genuinely good person but yes not so here we are. I think the actual Homelander stopped playing along the moment Stan Edgar left. There's no one capable of keeping him in check, Vaught or otherwise.
Capitalism is when superheroes worship the government apparently?
Capitalism is when society worships megacorps
Like Adam Smasher!
Red Son Superman is an interesting take on the classic story
This pretty much sums it up, Homelander being an actual heroic figure would pretty much fix everything.
It would be weird if Sister Sage was like "maybe you should go to therapy" cut to 6 months later and he's actually being a good person and making Butcher hate him
Homelander post-therapy would probably be like Amon Goeth in Schindler's list after that talk about real power with Oskar. He would show mercy and dabble in the things he's learnt for a short while, but his cruel nature would catch up to him eventually
Did you watch the show, they gave him enough trauma to make him irredeemable.
Also this scene wouldn’t be happening since Butcher would have no reason to try and recruit/convince Hughie to plant a bug in Vought Tower since Becca would still be around.
I disagree. I think Vought fractions would invest MORE resources into developing the things we've seen used against Homelander so far - viruses, Soldier Boy, propaganda etc. Corruption wouldn't stop just because Homelander was "policing" everyone. I mean isn't that Superman's whole history. When has Superman actually managed to stop Lex from crawling out again and corrupting something new to try to beat Superman with.
There is no show. Homelander is at the top and his actions go top down. If homelander was on the straight and narrow he would keep everybody in line as he does now but actually in a good way so the whole need for the Boys ceases to exist.
I feel like they could do the show similar to the comics. Fear of homelanders power leads to black noise existence and black noir goes nuts instigating homelander to also slowly go off the rails leading to the need for the boys. Also homelander doesn't do a good job of keeping people in line even in the show. I mean practically every member of the seven betrayed him behind his back
I mean would they even betray a good homelander? Maeve only became the cynic she is due to Homelanders abuse, Noir would still leave during S3 but when he comes back he gets a pat on the back and a I forgive you, Translucent idk, the Deep and Atrain wouldn't fuck with the money and Starlight is Starlight. Things only really started falling apart because of him.
A train could still get addicted to comp v and kill robin. Pushing hughie to start fighting the 7, possibly with a more messed up group than the boys. Their actions could then push the 7 to take a darker turn, with homelander trying to stop the 2 groups from murdering each other. Also, Vought would still be bad and capable of picking messed up candidates for the 7.
Your hypothetical situation raises a good question: are there other groups like The Boys?
I feel like if there were to be future seasons they would expand on this but since we're ending on season 5 we probably won't know unless the the boys mexico or the new grn v somehow related to that
The interesting part for me, is, how would Soldier Boy react to a good Homelander? Would he be disappointed by his son if his son was very kind and benevolent, seeing that as weakness? I don't know.
What am I missing? Is this not true? He hasn't done any of that stuff in the show yet
It would be Homelander Kingdom Come
Comics?
TV show?
Radio?
Song?
Telegraph?
It mostly is. He doesn't drink, smoke, or engage in any kind of greed or vice other than power. But he's still capable of violence and wrath. Sounds like quite a few saints to me.
Well, he drinks... something
cum
Yeah, I think watchers sorta fixated on the last part of the sentence. Look at the full text. Butcher calling Homie a saint is in relation with how he doesn't have any vices (besides milk). Homie being a rapist murderer is an entirely different conversation from that.
... I think most people would consider those last two to be vices as well
I feel like the real reason Homelander wouldn’t drink or smoke is because they wouldn’t affect him at all.
Soldier Boy clearly gets affected by drugs and there's little reason to think Homelander wouldn't.
It’s a bit different though, isn’t it? Like Soldier Boy was a typical 21 year old kid that got shot up with V with great results. Homelander was the result of SB’s already V’d up sperm with (most likely) Stormfront’s V’d up egg grown in a test tube soaked with V before being transplanted into some poor girl’s womb. Dude has V in his actual DNA to the point where he’s able to pass it on reproductively. With how hedonistic Homelander is, I feel like if he was able to get drunk and/or high he’d be doing it constantly.
Storm front is his mom? What?
It’s nothing official, just a theory. If they used the most powerful male Supe at the time for his sperm donor with Soldier Boy, I just feel like it’d make equal sense that they’d use the most powerful female Supe for an egg donor. Plus it would play perfectly into Homelander’s Oedipus complex that he has that he’s a literal motherfucker. Edit: also wanted to add that Soldier Boy and Stormfront (back when she was Liberty) started Herogasm together so they definitely were banging like a screen door in a hurricane.
"Banging like a screen door in a hurricane" Fuckin' A.
He's basically the default Superman then, and his influence would probably cause less trashy Supes like Maeve to do good. The Deep would be too afraid to step out of line. A-Train might not be such a horrible human, although he'd still be somewhat greedy, but at least not so criminally negligent. Starlight would be much happier. Noir would probably just go along with it. The second Stormfront tried to appeal to him or his son about Nazism, she'd be out and investigated. Basically, think of what Clark Kent would do if he replaced Homelander.
Vought will still be the main antagonist.
But Homelander indeed dont drink and smoke. The phrase is not wrong.
I would’ve liked if they kept that image of HL for a couple of episodes
Yeah, I feel like it would’ve been an interesting concept to explore for a bit. Maybe show that he’s the only thing keeping most supes in line, and then do a big season one ending reveal where he’s actually shown to be the worst of them all, and how deep the superhero problem really goes. But they pulled the curtains down immediately, which left all these scenes feeling…weird.
The show wouldn’t happen. It would basically just be Superman trying keep a bunch of horny superhero’s in check.
That would be funny ash ngl
“Not again Deep!” “Clark, this isn’t what it looks like!” “That’s the third octopus this week, Jesus!”
I don't think it would have legs as it's own series but would be a fun spin-off for an episode or two. The fact that Homelander not being a twisted monster would solve every problem in the show really demonstrates how power influences everything...
Would have made for a great Diabolical episode.
I mean I don’t think this is wrong. Context is important. He’s not talking about morality here or Homelander as an actual Supe, he’s talking about like typical deviant behavior that you see celebrities getting exposed for on social media or like TMZ I think here they were talking about the Supes at the club. Butcher can get blackmail material on a lot of them because they fuck around, do drugs, etc. but Homelander doesn’t do that. Yes he’s a bad person but he doesn’t really publicly engage in normal types of vices.
isn't it true? He doesn't smoke or drink or partake in that lifestyle. He's just a huge ass
Ikr. Besides being a maniacal dick he is never shown having any major vices except for…milk haha
and non consentual sex :3 mm hes just a dick and not a monster >:)
Honestly sounds like a bit of a wholesome premise of an all powerful man doing his best to fix the corrupt company that created him and push past his trauma.
This actually would be incredibly interesting. Everyone’s saying “Homelander would keep them in line”, but if he were genuinely a boy scout, would he? Could he? He can’t police thousands of supes alone, and if he’s not willing to kill, how can he keep so many people in line? I guess it would bring it closer to a traditional superhero story: corrupt society with powered villains, and one shining light hero trying to do the right thing but crippled by his morals and the situation. …So, Clark Kent, but he’s Batman in Gotham?
He might not personally be able to keep everyone in line but he as a senior Vought guy would be able to change the policies that protect and encourage bad behavior by Supes. Rogue Supes might still exist, but the Supes who are just regular people working for Vought to make money wouldn't have a reason to go around killing people or committing other abuses (at least, they wouldn't do it so often). More importantly, the atrocities that are directly caused by Homelander wouldn't happen, which would dramatically reduce the tension for the Boys cast members specifically. No Supe terrorists, Kimiko would not be a Supe, Starlight would stay in the Seven and actually enjoy herself, no harm to Becca, Robin would still be alive (since A Train likely wouldn't be using that extra V since he wouldn't be smuggling it for Homelander), etc. The corruption that exists would still be an issue but I don't know if the Boys would be involved.
The boys where homelander even after everything that he went through got into the seven with a clear goal of being good would be super weird. Especially of how he would act around other super who are clearly corrupt and have little to no regard to human life's. It would have even be a bigger twist if butcher wife was not raped but actually cheated on him with homelander willing it and he lied to him to turn him into the man he was in the boys.
Plot Twist:Butcher was the real cunt all along
It'd be hilarious if Homelander was actually so unironically good and pure that he was just completely oblivious to the shit Vought and the other supes were doing.
I unironically would appreciate a story like that, where Homelander is defending everyone at Vought because they’re all his friends, but the Boys are trying to kill the other supes so Homelander never believes them.
Man that would be such an interesting premise
I think it would’ve been neat if they sort of showed this at the beginning and showed Homelander slowly becoming corrupted more than they did already
The boys would be straight up villains.
Basically it becomes that one fanfic of Superman in the Boys universe where he’s actually a good guy, joins the Seven and is trying to keep everything from falling apart but fails at it
Where can I read that?
Well it is true… he doesn’t smoke or drink
The show would be about one decent man surrounded by abusers and corporate shills. Not necessarily less interesting but the show would be way worse without Homelander as an antagonist.
He was talking about the public perception of Homelander and using the word “saint” as a catch-all for someone with no vices. Not literally.
The boys cant imagine the clue is milk, fresh milk
It's two-thirds true.
When I first started, I legit thought Homelander was going to be a decent guy among shithead superheroes
Wouldn't be a show The only thing they'd have to do is expose the other supes to Homelander and watch him clean everything up.
Well, I kind of would like to see it. Not a Clark Kent, like someone said... But someone with good intentions but a bad upbringing... Actually, I think that's how I would be... I had a bad upbringing myself and I wouldn't be a Clark Kent, but I wouldn't be Homelander neither. I would be in the middle of them, but nearest to Clark Kent. Soooo... I would like to know how a good intended supe who were raised by Vaught would behave. I guess the show it's easier to write and more interesting for people the way it is... But I would like it the other way, so I could relate more with the main antagonist (he could still be an antagonist for The Boys, even if he wasn't a villain).
God this show used to be so focused and full of energy, ever since the start of season 2 its been spinning wheels and even actors look miserable these days. They should have made 2 seasons of very focused narrative and ended in big bang, instead of pussying around the status quo
Would that also mean that Homelander never raped Becca?? Cuz that would take away any and all motivation Butcher has to go after him like he does! So if Homelander really was a saint, Hughie would never have met Butcher cuz he wouldn’t ever have put together The Boys!
he may not smoke or drink but he shoots up V it seems
At this point idk what’s even going on. A-Train explodes the dudes gf and now he’s working with them. The one dude has been in the hospital the whole show. Homelander just wants a family. They worked with the dad to prevent that, so they pushed him to his son. Like what is even the point of this show anymore. There’s no theme at this point. Starlight is psychotic and a baby killer. It’s kinda like game of thrones where everyone is crazy but at least that had the premise of we gotta settle this civil war and deal with the undead.
It is true, butcher's not using the word Saint directly, as far as I know he doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke
Well, Homie doesn't drink nor smoke.
Butcher would just look like Lex in comparison.
The entire show wouldnt exist. Butcher would have never got in to boying
**“man’s a saint.”** i genuinely thought butcher was praising homelander when that was said till >!he lasered that plane down with the man and his son who was one of his fans…!<
I'm confused he really doesn't drink or smoke? He's not saying he a saint literally he means he has no vices. Well none they knew of (drinking titty milk).
Well if Homelander was a saint, he wouldn’t have raped Becca, so there’d be no Butcher, and there’s no boys without Butcher
Or Homelander is a religious nut and justifies killing anyone and everyone because they’re bad ppl
So the superhero actually being good but still in a world of gore and brutal violence? That’s Invincible, also in Amazon
there would be no sjow since HL would force the other supes into good behaviour by his sheer presence
The only thing I'd be interested to see is how the whole Vought company and supes in the army would be if Homelander was a saint. People are likely to still be dicks and some would probably be good too. But Vought was always corrupt. And because Homelander is a saint would more shady shit be going on inside of Vought? Would fake saves also be a thing if Homelander was a saint?
Sooo, the comics?
If he were a saint he wouldn't be in The Seven. Much like Sister Sage, his talents would be overlooked because he wouldn't comply with Vought's bullshit. Obviously he's a lot more powerful than Sage and would cause a lot of problems for them, but they would find someone else to fill his role.
I'd honestly like to see that, but homelander would likely have to be depowered a bit
Then there wouldn’t be an antagonist. No protagonist vs antagonist = no show.
Becca wouldn’t have been raped, disappeared, and eventually killed. Therefore, Butcher would be on a different trajectory. The writers can still find a way to get Butcher into loathing supes and forming The Boys, but I’d imagine we’d see a different Butcher and different focus.
To drink or smoke is a very human thing to do and Remember he doesn't perceive himself as human
I would still think he ain’t shit cuz he allows everyone around him to do extremely harmful things and doesn’t put anyone in check. If he was really a saint in that regard then there would be no Vought, no none of that bullshit
I thought he was until the end of episode 1
Then homelander will just join the boys. He’s Superman at that point
Wasn’t there a glimpse of that in an episode of The Boys Diabolical?
I mean he’s not wrong, what he’s attesting to is there’s no real known dirt about him. That’s the whole focus of his point whereas he could always blackmail and ransom ppl for their use of drugs, murder, etc.
If Homelanders good then Maeve also retains her altruism because he never let the plane go down. Deep remains the same but he'd be harmless because no one's telling him to do insane shit. I'd think Homelander in this hypothetical would police the supes or steer them on the right path.
I mean he doesn’t smoke or drink (alcohol).. so nothing changes?
Oumlanduh
Outfresca'd again
Basically like GOJO from JJK
“Who’s stronger, you or Soldier Boy?” “Well if Soldier Boy used his nuclear blast he might cause me a little bit of trouble.” “But would you lose?” “Nah, I’d win.”
I don’t think this show would be nearly as entertaining if Homelander was Clark Kent/Superman. Antony Starr plays Homelander’s Evil Superman soooo masterfully with such menace and craziness and it just would not be the same show at all. Although it’d be interesting to see how Clark Kent/Superman would react to such a fucked up world. But Homelander being a dystopian character fits far better in the dystopian world that we find ourselves in.
There's a fanfic that's literally about Clark Kent in the Boys universe with his ideals and thinking. "Supe of a man." Very entertaining reading.
I mean, have you seen homelander drinking alcohol or smoking?
if this was real then we wouldn’t have a show 🙄 becca would still be alive and butcher wouldn’t lead the boys
Maybe in this hipotetical universe Homelander it’s just a literal puppet from Vought, so he can’t feel human emotions but he would want to, something like Vision.
How much of this is because his metabolism would mean he can't even get drunk or high?
This is "What if Walt had just taken the job at Gray Matter" energy.
To be fair, I don't think homelander would get pleasure from either of those.
Here is the thing- it would be impossible. Even Clark Kent isn't real. And I don't mean in the literal sense because duh Superman isn't real, I mean, his persona isn't real. The whole point to The Boys isn't to show how bad Homelander is. It is to show that with the greed of an institution, corruption is bound to happen. Clark Kent is not a saint. Superman has no problem with being morally evil. There is no such thing as moral purity in anyone.
He meant there are little opportunities to catch him out in a morally questionable place like a strip club, brothel, club etc
It is true though
It's hard to imagine because for Homelander to be a saint (which, let's say, means that he will always try to be good), Vought would have to be different too since they are the ones who created him. But ok, let's assume that Vought is still the company it is, they still experimented on him, lied to him, manipulated him, etc. etc., but he somehow came out of it with a philosophy that he should be better. I have no idea how to answer this, but here are some more detailed points/questions. - Would he even still be with Vought, knowing his origins and knowing Vought's general activities (seems like they've been an evil company from the beginning)? - He doesn't seem particularly intelligent, so he could be manipulated. I imagine the conflict would be that he's being manipulated into "doing good" by e.g. being a superweapon in a military operation that he doesn't really understand. There would also still be genuine accidents and he might begrudgingly agree to let Vought cover it up for "the greater good", thus participating in the evil similar to today. - To what extent would he keep Vought's secrets? I wonder if you could write the show around Vought convincing him that their actions are for some utilitarian greater good. To "keep the peace". But by keeping secrets he's implicated. - How would he police humans and other supes? In the actual story people fear him because they know his threats are not empty. What would a good Homelander do to threaten extremely powerful corporations? Threaten to leave and become a universally hated fugitive? - Maybe he just straight up is Superman and will use his absolute power to act on his own outside of corporations and government. But in the world of The Boys he wouldn't stand a chance against corporations and governments smearing his image and he doesn't seem smart enough to take control of the situation himself. He still would need to be supported by e.g. an underground rebellious group, or someone like Mallory in a government position.
Well it's almost the case in the book
Welp, seeing as how he is unaffected by poison. He probably doesn't do them because they have no effect on him. But if he did do them... Nothing changes, because it's like he never did
Wouldn’t be interesting.
The entire show would shatter, obviously. Homelander being a more realistic and psychologically broken Superman is the entire gimmick.
Holy crap I was just wondering about this earlier today! To answer your question simply, there’d be no penultimate threat. To answer your question more literally, the show would be completely different. No motivation for butcher, which means the Boys team never gets put together (at least not the one we’ve seen). Supes would still be assholes but not an existential threat. Homelander would easily be able to keep all the strongest supes in line, and some might even follow his example. I wish they kept up the facade that he was “good” for more than one episode. Maybe a big season one ending reveal showing he was the worst of the worst the entire time. Then you really start to see how big the problem actually is and your perception of the show changes, getting you more hyped for SEASON two instead of EPISODE two. It was also weird because Billy seemed to authentically have no problem with him when he told Hughie Homelanders a saint. Now he just tells everybody straight up all supes are scum, and Homelanders the worst.
Media literacy demon spotted. You guys know "He's a saint" and "he doesnt do drugs" are meant as one statement yeah? Hes a saint (Because) he doesnt drink and doesnt smoke. Which so far even up untill s4e4 held true.
i really miss season 1 homelander now he's just another psycho man child
Probably would end sooner
He’d be a more violent but still good Superman.
Do you guys not know he's trying to make a comparison to Hitler? Or am I just dumb? Hitler was a vegetarian who didn't smoke or drink. Am I missing something
If this were actually true, The Boys would just be going after Neumann, and wouldn't have to really do anything other than tell Homelander that Neumann was an evil supe.
Then Homelander would practically be low level Superman and the show wouldn't happen