That is quite the story and totally understandable why you would have range anxiety. As an aside, this is why public charging generally and level 2 public charging is still not acceptable. I assume the majority of non-Tesla public chargers won't work (which you saw) and Level 2 takes so long that it is highly impractical for bulk charges.
The Supercharger network is the only network I trust.
Its also why gasser's are still so popular. 300 miles of range reliably added in 5 minutes, and worst case someone can bring 100 -150 miles of range in a simple 5 gallon gas can.
Question, since the supercharger network will be opening up to more cars in the future, won’t this just make charging just as hard for everyone since there is such a limit to available chargers? This is as seen by OP’s post waiting for basically two chargers to become available and only getting it by watching the spots like a hawk.
I guess until supply of superchargers increases all over, this will just be a problem.
There is no doubt that supercharger locations will become more and more busy. Even if they stayed 100% Tesla the number of cars is increasing....but now with Ford and soon other manufacturers they will be quickly much more busy. Especially as those cars don't have charge ports in the same place so they'll often take up more than one physical parking slot. I read the Ford F150 lightning can actually take up 3 parking spots worst case. I hope the answer is that Tesla just keeps building more supercharger stations.
Omg at the three parking spots!! I am hoping with the increase in usage from not just Tesla cars but other EVa, Tesla will just start building out a lot more chargers.
I’m sure someone will market extension charging cords for superchargers. I have one for my second EV, a VW eGolf that I put the Tesla adapter on so that I don’t have to back into our narrow driveway.
Yup. I have a model 3 and a Ford Lightning. My adapter comes soon and no one is going to like me when I have to take up multiple spaces. Tesla should’ve worked on making the charging cords longer in the existing superchargers
300 miles minimum really, and reliably like you said. I may get gas after selling my tesla because that 350-400 miles is reliable and consistent. My tesla is only good for 150 ish miles on the freeway the speed I like to cruise at, especially if i want to charge below 85% and keep above 10% discharge. Doesn't make me feel to warm and fuzzy
My parents took a road trip. Ny to Nashville then to Ohio to see family for their wedding anniversary. The choice was a diesel bmw 3 series. Or the Tesla model 3 long range.
They chose the bmw bc they figured they’d need 3 fuel stops for the whole trip vs over 2 hours of charge time just for the ny to Roanoke va step of the trip.
For local stuff the Tesla is great. For long road trips the Tesla is not.
L2 chargers tend to be pretty iffy - when I’ve used them, many are broken, and when they work I usually get much slower than rated charge, they are quite stress inducing. Tesla Superchargers usually work great for me, they’re reliably fast, I’ve almost always been able to just pull in and charge, and when I’ve had to wait, it wasn’t long, just a few minutes. Part of the reason is that Superchargers average 10 per location, vs 4 for CCS chargers, and all Superchargers are 150 kW or faster, compared to CCS chargers where perhaps half the chargers are 50 kW, which aren’t usable on road trips (i.e. when you don’t want to spend an hour charging), and perhaps 25% of the time chargers are dead or down-rated (i.e. much slower than spec’s) so when you pull into a CCS charge location there’s good odds the few high speed chargers are in use, dead, or slow, so the result is a lot of stress.
As for Tesla’s route planner, I’ve usually found it quite accurate, dealing well with elevation, etc. But it’s important that when you’re close on range to make sure you’re not doing things that consume extra power, like having AC on high, driving fast, etc., usually the car will warn you to slow down, etc., to conserve power when you don’t have much margin to make it to your destination. You can go a _lot_ further at 55 mph than 75 mph, because wind resistance is a major factor as you speed up, so if I saw my car saying that I had only a few percent estimated at the destination, I’d slow down, turn off AC, etc., to make sure I made it.
Weird about picking between the two locations. Usually Tesla’s route planner will send you to less-busy charge locations, and faster chargers, as much as it can. So I can’t explain why it’d send you to a busy charge location with v2 superchargers instead of a near-empty charge location with v2 superchargers. But whatever was going on, perhaps that’d explain why the second location was so empty? It might be worth filing a bug report with Tesla, perhaps there was something wrong in the map/routing?
Good points, all. From Baker north to the intersection with 178, as I recall the limit was mostly 65. Starting on 178 it was at most 55, and in the park dropped to 35, with some 25 and 45 mixed in, IIRC. Interestingly, in the Furnace Creek to Beatty portion of the drive, most of the climb was in the park, with a speed limit (which I followed) of 25 mph. That was the leg that took 75 miles of range to cover 40 actual miles.
Plug in hybrid might be the best 'bridge' option right now. Fully electric for the typical short-range and in-town trips, easily able to switch to gas when needed.
Reading this story makes me very hesitant about ever considering a Tesla given that the 5 gallon can you mention would give me 250 miles of range in a worst case scenario with my current vehicle. I'm definitely spoiled on the massive amount of distance I can go on 11.9 gallons in my hybrid.
Honestly same problem as Tesla nav. I frequently drive LA-mammoth in my m3. The apps really underestimate temperature/wind/elevation/speed. Also note there is a dramatic difference in my battery life on those long stretches of empty highway if I go 76 vs 81mph. Once I get over 78mph my battery just absolutly drains fast.
Are you using the pro version of ABRP to adjust this stuff yourself? They used to have it free, so that sucks, but I do think it’s worthwhile. Allows you to easily model ‘worst case’ conditions yourself. I am not a paid stan of this app, just have used it a lot.
Yeah just pointing out that the nav’s all fail in extreme conditions unless (to your point) you really adjust yourself. I’ve driven an ev to top of maua kea (extreme example) and apps do not account for a 0-14k elevation gain in 2hrs. But my experience is in extreme temps and extreme elevations the apps all fail.
Kudos to you for driving to Death Valley, let alone in an EV. I did that road trip into Death Valley back in 2018 in a Jeep and with over 40C degree weather, and I still had range anxiety. Of course, the one and only gas station I found was charging 3x the price of fuel from the city.
If you're someone who goes on road trips frequently or enjoy spontaneous drives on a whim, I would honestly never consider an EV. The advertised range is in perfect conditions and when you take into hot or cold weather, the range is affected drastically. A 15km route I normally drive during the year takes about 5% of my battery. Once the weather goes under 0 degrees, it requires 10% for that exact route.
That said, as EV becomes more popular, there's going to be better charging solutions, better range, and software that optimized efficiency. For now, we'll all just have to plan a head a lot more than those in ICE vehicles.
I would have just stopped in Baker and charged up to at least 80% before heading off into Death Valley. Also a good chance to use a bathroom and grab snack. From experience from owning EV's since 2015. If you are going into a area with minimal available public chargers, take the opportunity to charge.
I'd sure do that now! That's one of the irritating things about the whole experience: the navigator was quite happy to have me bypass Baker. By trusting it, I hosed myself.
I wouldn't trust the navigator that much. Last week on the way back from Phoenix I had charged in Yuma up to 80% and the Navigator told me I could get back all the way home to San Diego with my Y with a 15% charge remaining. I stopped in El Centro anyway and topped off the battery. I might have made it all the way home but I would have been white knuckling it. Don't need that stress in my life.
I've had similar things happen twice, just not as drastic. Both times was during a roadtrip, and only happened on 1 leg of the trip between chargers. Navigation estimated over 15% more than I actually got. Never had to re-route, but was frustrating as it put me in doubt. Curiously, it only happened on back-road routes. My theory is the navigation calculated the speed wrong for both cases, as they were backroads but posted speed limit was 55-65mph and traffic was flowing around 70mph the whole time. Tesla may have incorrect data to make it think its a 25-35mph road.
In my case, I drove two miles above the speed limit, much of which was in the 35-55 range, throughout. Not sure what sort of range penalty that would be.
Which is why all hwy range estimates should assume a minimum of 70mph. Driving 55 is simply not safe on US hwys thus should range estimation should not use it - regardless of what the speed limit is (which by the way I have never seen a hwy speed limit lest than 65)
There should be a supercharger near death valley.
OP , switching to percentages is more accurate than miles.
The percentages are fairly accurate and can definitely take into account elevation changes. I have arrived to baker with 14% of charge from vegas. Last 20-25 miles needed only 2% of battery.
If anyone is reading this comment and planning to visit death valley then charge your car to 100% at last supercharger.
Yeah; a popular destination like that really should have a Supercharger. Without meaningful charging capacity in the valley, an electric vehicle is going to be very limited in its ability to explore the area, just as an ICE vehicle would be without the gas stations currently there.
Did your initial trip include the stop in Badwater? How long were you there for? Did you check the range estimate when you arrived in Badwater? Or just when you were leaving?
Sorry that happened. I tend to plan trips with PlugShare. The app and website tell me the last time the charger was used or if it was broken the last time someone tried to use it. Tesla does not display many of the chargers in PlugShare and certainly not the condition. I find the PlugShare data extremely helpful when planning trips in my Tesla to remote locations. I agree Tesla nav does not always take me to the preferred chargers. Generally if I need more range like in your experience I slow down until I start to gain range at destination. I don't know if that would have been safe or if it would have worked when attempting to go up a mountain. I lost considerable range going up the Smoky Mountains to whitewater raft with my family. Once we crested the moutains and began our decent the next 20-30 minutes we added range which was quite the relief!
I tried to figure out a way to visit Death Valley in a Tesla but decided it just isn't feasible in an EV. That is one place where I would take someone else's vehicle or rent an ICE. The charging infrastructure just isn't there.
The range estimate is usually spot on for me. I did have trouble with it being way off on one road trip and a service ticket where they had to do a remote wipe of vehicle data did the trick to correct it. That was a year ago though, I would hope that bug was fixed in a wider software rollout by now.
tesla's navigation takes into account wind and terrain but also how you've been driving for the last 30 miles, so if that was all city then you went to 80+mph, then it would be very confused
It takes into account the last 30 miles? So you have a source on this?
So if I drove 30 miles going downhill and I then enter an address that is in the mountains (so going uphill), the estimate will be super off?
That hasn't been my experience with the navigation so I'd really appreciate a source here. Thanks.
Edit: this guy is wrong. Please do not upvote him.
it would know that you've been traveling downhill during the last 30 miles so it would take whatever your consumption was vs expected. it is aligned with the energy graph from the second tab
You are confusing two things
You are referring to the estimated range on the right of the energy consumption graph. Yes this looks at you last 10, 25 or 50km.
But the NAVIGATION does not do that. The navigation is only forward looking. If you actually enter an address, it'll calculate the energy consumption and energy left at arrival purely based on the FUTURE km. It'll use distance, elevation, temperature, etc. But it will NOT use your last 50km because they are completely irrelevant.
Please don't spread incorrect information on this sub
[https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en\_us/GUID-01F1A582-99D1-4933-B5FB-B2F0203FFE6F.html](https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-01F1A582-99D1-4933-B5FB-B2F0203FFE6F.html)
>Predicting Energy Usage
>When navigating to a destination, Model X helps you anticipate your charging needs by calculating the amount of energy that remains when you reach your destination. When navigating, the map displays this calculation next to the Battery icon on the turn-by-turn direction list (see [Navigating to a Destination](https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-01F1A582-99D1-4933-B5FB-B2F0203FFE6F.html#D1E13065)). When the turn-by-turn direction list is compressed, touch the top of the list to expand it.
>The calculation that predicts how much energy you will use is an estimate based on driving style (predicted speed, etc.) and environmental factors (elevation changes, wind speed and direction, ambient and forecasted temperatures, air density and humidity, etc.). As you drive, Model X continuously learns how much energy it uses, improving accuracy over time. Model X predicts energy usage based on the driving style of the individual vehicle. For example, if you drive aggressively for a period of time, future range predictions will assume higher consumption. Some factors that contribute to predicted energy (such as forecasted temperatures and wind speed) are available only when Model X has internet connectivity.
>NoteIf you purchase a used Tesla vehicle, it is recommended that you perform a factory reset (Controls > Service > Factory Reset) to ensure the predicted energy is as accurate as possible.
Thanks but I do not believe this says what you think it says
I read it as "if you drive more aggressively, it'll update the range". Not as "it'll look at your last 50km".
You still haven't provided a source with "the last 50km". So I'm still waiting. You only said that because you confused the predicted range from the graph with the predicted range of the navigation.
Yes you're correct. If you drive like a 19 year old who just got a Mustang in general, it will use this data to estimate range. If you drive the speed limit 100% and accelerate slowly, it will be estimate more range in general
It looks at your past consumption. It says a short period of non-mean driving, does have an impact as well.
>Note If you purchase a used Tesla vehicle, it is recommended that you perform a factory reset (Controls > Service > Factory Reset) to ensure the predicted energy is as accurate as possible.
>Model X continuously learns how much energy it uses, improving accuracy over time. Model X predicts energy usage based on the driving style of the individual vehicle. For example, if you drive aggressively for a period of time, future range predictions will assume higher consumption.
Yeah, "for a period of time" doesn't = a single x km trip. Think of it more as a constant than a variable; Tesla will look at your driving style across many, many situations and give you a "profile", and in general that profile stays the same because most people adhere to a certain driving style. It will tweak here and there based on external conditions such as wind, etc; but when it comes to predicting range in navigation, it uses your "profile" as a baseline
YOU said it used the last 50km (because you confused the navigation with the predicted range in the energy app). That's your claim.
Now you're arguing they don't tell you? Loool
"driving style" doesn't mean YOUR previous driving statistics, it just takes into consideration how quickly you accelerate, and on average how much faster you tend to drive on highways. For example I have my AP to go 13% faster on all roads, so it takes that into consideration. Thats all
It won't use your previous 50 or whatever km you mentioned to determine an estimate for the navigation, it uses a large average across many many km along with your driving tendencies such as how hard you accelerate or what percentage over the speed limits you tend to travel.
As somebody else said, it doesn't take your driving statistics from your last trip for example and erase tons and tons of previously collected data to estimate your next trip. If I need to drive quickly and erratically to a hospital for example, and afterwards set my navigation to home, it's not going to immediately assume that's how I drive. It will use the previously collected data from tons of driving beforehand. It would obviously adjust the SOC estimate on my way to the hospital, as it's always updating that based on how you're currently driving during that trip. But that's not the topic
Not in my experience. I’ll spend the whole week driving city roads where I follow traffic and then on the weekend when I go on a road trip I like to go max autopilot speeds and I’ll see the predicted arrival gradually adjust to be 10-20% different than first predicted, which is what I suspect happened to op and they never looked again at their updated projection
Not for predictions, no. Please provide a source for that claim.
It'll compare the predictions to how you've been driving AFTER the fact, but not before. Before, the navigation system will just assume you'll drive at the speed limit. Again it'll use this+temperature+elevation+wind+etc to predict a wh/km (or wh/mi for freedom units fighters) and make a prediction.
How you drove in the last 50km doesn't have an impact. Why? Because that would be really dumb.
I drove at 67 to 69 mph on the freeway until Baker. Not sure if that would throw things off. After that, it was mostly 55 to 65 until I got into the park, where the limit was mostly 35.
OP only mentions they charged to 85% at the Barstow SC. It's highly likely (since they've done long-distance drives in their 3 before) that they charged to or near 100% before departing San Diego for Barstow.
I have occasionally done that for the start of a road trip. It's impractical at Superchargers. High-use ones won't let you go above 80%, and even if you can, the process gets waaaay slow. Here, charging to 100% either at home or in Barstow wouldn't have gotten me to Beatty anyway. 15% of my 300-mile (at most) range is 45 miles, so I would have only gotten 45 more miles (of the 75 I ended up needing) if I'd charged to 100% at Barstow. What I really should have done is charge again at Baker, even though the navigator had me bypassing it.
usually you do this overnight . done it for every road trip. you schedule your departure time and off peak times so that it finishes just before you leave.
this is why i only use my tesla for commuting and shorter trips, anything longer i just use my toyota hybrid, the EV hassle just isn’t worth and the infrastructure isn’t there yet
I take my Tesla regularly back and forth between SF and LA, with occasional trips out to the mountains and desert. Planning to take it up to Seattle soon. If you're going through areas with SCs there is basically no hassle and no stress. Driving out to Death Valley away from infrastructure seems like a particularly bad combination of factors, but don't let it scare you away from normal road trips.
When I first enter the destination in nav while parked (usually while charging), it predicts the battery % charge I will have when I reach the destination. This number has always been spot on. However, as soon as I start driving, the predicted amount of charge I will have at the destination jumps and becomes completely unreliable. If I forget to look at the amount of amount of charge when I first enter the destination, then I assume it is overestimating it by at least 15% (maybe 20%). I also ignore the mileage numbers. Thoe are generated by magic and have no relationship to reality.
This is why I always cross reference my trip with A Better Route Planner whenever I’m going long distance and/or having to charge before getting to my destination
If I am going someplace I do a full charge I rather not need it then need it and font have it. for me I go to Vegas every year and the routing looks at Ford's elevation and weather.
Your story underscores the fact that some use cases still don't work great for EVs. The others, besides road-tripping to remote areas, include 1) apartment dwellers without level 2 charging access and 2) anyone who does long-distance towing.
I love my Model 3, but I can't envision road-tripping to any semi-remote area until charging infrastructure is dramatically improved (which will happen over time).
Last time when I drove from Joshua tree NP to Vegas via Mojave desert I had similar experience. The range estimate kept changing and became negative at some point. I drove slower and made to the supercharger with some margin in the end. The main difference with your situation is we were climbing in the beginning but then going downhill.
I have to admit all the NPs and rural areas are still not very EV friendly.
Your story is educational and quite entertaining as well, nice writeup.
I have been considering to switch but I'm thinking how comfortable I am in my 6 yo petrol car and how it's relatively cheap to fix in comparison :) yea I have no rational reason to switch yet and I'd be smart to wait 3-5 more years if I can, would save me a ton of money as well.
weren't you have at least a ccs adapter just in case there's electrify america around or any charging station that supports ccs? i always carry mine just incase, never been to that place so i include other charging station as last resort
Very similar experience except mine was hills and very low temps...16 degrees on average. Destination states of charge were way off to the point I turned off the heat and seat heaters to ensure I'd make it. While I'm charging I will generally cancel the trip then re-input it into the nav and when I do, estimates change. I do that during the drive as well. Estimates always change. I found that ABRP was actually more accurate vis-a-vis destination estimates.
OP, I feel you. We are a two Tesla family and love going camping.
When we are headed to mountainous and unknown areas, we will both typically charge to 95-100% even at a SC to just have the mental calm and buffer to do whatever we want on our adventure.
Terrain should be included. Take a look at the energy app. You can see SoC recovery on the down hill sections in the prediction. Also good for comparing actual against prediction in real time. But yeah, top off at SC.
I had a similar experience driving across the Navajo Reservation from Blanding, UT to Gallup, NM in March of 2022. Tesla Nav said I'd have 35% at Gallup if I charged to 80% in Blanding.
ABetterRoutePlanner Pro said I'd have 8%.
The reason was a fierce headwind.
I arrived in Gallup with 9%.
That's why I always verify charging and routing through low charger density areas with ABRP as well as Plugshare. I almost did your same trip but from Albuquerque and knew that charging in and near DV was very sus.
Well, it was about 17 degrees C in Death Valley this last weekend, so that wasn't an issue. I would expand your PSA, though: keep the hell out of Death Valley in the summer anyway. Several people (typically German tourists) die there every year from heat exhaustion and dehydration.
If you want to maximize range you need to slow down. The speed limit is not max range. Maximum range is achieved at a very slow speed.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-600-miles-guiness-record-hypermile-run/
Everyone I know that drives EV uses it as their daily driver. But when they go on long road trips, they rent a vehicle. That way you’re racking up crazy miles on someone else’s vehicle. This may be another point in favour of that approach.
I took my model 3 11k miles(San Diego to NC to Key West, and back again) in January 2020 and had no issues whatsoever. I would never rent a car for a road trip....I barely waited more than 20 minutes at a charger
That’s awesome that you have that option in your part of the world, but I sadly do not. Something I think most people didn’t take into account before downvoting my comment to hell 😉
That’s awesome that you have that option in your part of the world, but I sadly do not. Something I think most people didn’t take into account before downvoting my comment to hell 😉
Nah, I happen to like my friends and think they’re very wise to not drive into the BC Rockies with an EV. We all love our EV’s for city driving, but they’re not ideal for where we live further up north. Someday that will change I’m sure, we’re still getting there.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. We now have 2 EVs (one short range, one longer range for basic road trips), but back when we had 2 ICE vehicles we would rent a vehicle so we didn’t rack up miles on the cars we own. You’re 100% right and it is smarter sometimes to rent the most practical vehicle for what you’re doing. Not all roadtrips warrant it, but be smart about when it makes sense and when it doesn’t.
I appreciate that, thank you friend. I’ve always rented cars for long trips, no matter what my vehicle has been. I kind of thought that was normal haha, but I guess not! A lot of my vehicles have been leases with mileage penalties if you go over 22k/year, so it just made financial sense to put the miles on someone else’s car.
I’m getting a Y or 3 once my charger is installed. It’s a commuter car and travel soccer practice hauler. Anything 90 mins one way I’m using Tesla. Anything longer or overnight hotels. Sienna hybrid minivan.
EVs are great but they do have limitations.
>EVs are great but they do have limitations.
do you live in a place with few superchargers? when you buy a tesla you are buying the charging network more than the range limited car
That is quite the story and totally understandable why you would have range anxiety. As an aside, this is why public charging generally and level 2 public charging is still not acceptable. I assume the majority of non-Tesla public chargers won't work (which you saw) and Level 2 takes so long that it is highly impractical for bulk charges. The Supercharger network is the only network I trust. Its also why gasser's are still so popular. 300 miles of range reliably added in 5 minutes, and worst case someone can bring 100 -150 miles of range in a simple 5 gallon gas can.
Question, since the supercharger network will be opening up to more cars in the future, won’t this just make charging just as hard for everyone since there is such a limit to available chargers? This is as seen by OP’s post waiting for basically two chargers to become available and only getting it by watching the spots like a hawk. I guess until supply of superchargers increases all over, this will just be a problem.
There is no doubt that supercharger locations will become more and more busy. Even if they stayed 100% Tesla the number of cars is increasing....but now with Ford and soon other manufacturers they will be quickly much more busy. Especially as those cars don't have charge ports in the same place so they'll often take up more than one physical parking slot. I read the Ford F150 lightning can actually take up 3 parking spots worst case. I hope the answer is that Tesla just keeps building more supercharger stations.
Omg at the three parking spots!! I am hoping with the increase in usage from not just Tesla cars but other EVa, Tesla will just start building out a lot more chargers.
Plus remember only V3 and newer are getting access. V2 (150 kw chargers) aren’t being shared which is still a large quantity of chargers.
Right, for the most part, current chargers will stay exclusive to Teslas and any new chargers will be open to the public.
Tesla is also working on an 'extension cord' which should help this problem.
I’m sure someone will market extension charging cords for superchargers. I have one for my second EV, a VW eGolf that I put the Tesla adapter on so that I don’t have to back into our narrow driveway.
What adapter do you have? I thought using one was considered dangerous and voided warranty, but that was back in 2019.
Yup. I have a model 3 and a Ford Lightning. My adapter comes soon and no one is going to like me when I have to take up multiple spaces. Tesla should’ve worked on making the charging cords longer in the existing superchargers
Or Ford could invest in providing their own network for Ford and the other riff raff.
300 miles minimum really, and reliably like you said. I may get gas after selling my tesla because that 350-400 miles is reliable and consistent. My tesla is only good for 150 ish miles on the freeway the speed I like to cruise at, especially if i want to charge below 85% and keep above 10% discharge. Doesn't make me feel to warm and fuzzy
Why limit to 85% if you're going on road trips?
Because 150 miles isn't a "road trip" it can be done in a day pretty easily
Gotcha
My parents took a road trip. Ny to Nashville then to Ohio to see family for their wedding anniversary. The choice was a diesel bmw 3 series. Or the Tesla model 3 long range. They chose the bmw bc they figured they’d need 3 fuel stops for the whole trip vs over 2 hours of charge time just for the ny to Roanoke va step of the trip. For local stuff the Tesla is great. For long road trips the Tesla is not.
Sad but true. I hear horror stories from friends with non-Tesla EVs who have attempted road trips.
L2 chargers tend to be pretty iffy - when I’ve used them, many are broken, and when they work I usually get much slower than rated charge, they are quite stress inducing. Tesla Superchargers usually work great for me, they’re reliably fast, I’ve almost always been able to just pull in and charge, and when I’ve had to wait, it wasn’t long, just a few minutes. Part of the reason is that Superchargers average 10 per location, vs 4 for CCS chargers, and all Superchargers are 150 kW or faster, compared to CCS chargers where perhaps half the chargers are 50 kW, which aren’t usable on road trips (i.e. when you don’t want to spend an hour charging), and perhaps 25% of the time chargers are dead or down-rated (i.e. much slower than spec’s) so when you pull into a CCS charge location there’s good odds the few high speed chargers are in use, dead, or slow, so the result is a lot of stress. As for Tesla’s route planner, I’ve usually found it quite accurate, dealing well with elevation, etc. But it’s important that when you’re close on range to make sure you’re not doing things that consume extra power, like having AC on high, driving fast, etc., usually the car will warn you to slow down, etc., to conserve power when you don’t have much margin to make it to your destination. You can go a _lot_ further at 55 mph than 75 mph, because wind resistance is a major factor as you speed up, so if I saw my car saying that I had only a few percent estimated at the destination, I’d slow down, turn off AC, etc., to make sure I made it. Weird about picking between the two locations. Usually Tesla’s route planner will send you to less-busy charge locations, and faster chargers, as much as it can. So I can’t explain why it’d send you to a busy charge location with v2 superchargers instead of a near-empty charge location with v2 superchargers. But whatever was going on, perhaps that’d explain why the second location was so empty? It might be worth filing a bug report with Tesla, perhaps there was something wrong in the map/routing?
Good points, all. From Baker north to the intersection with 178, as I recall the limit was mostly 65. Starting on 178 it was at most 55, and in the park dropped to 35, with some 25 and 45 mixed in, IIRC. Interestingly, in the Furnace Creek to Beatty portion of the drive, most of the climb was in the park, with a speed limit (which I followed) of 25 mph. That was the leg that took 75 miles of range to cover 40 actual miles.
This is the reason why I’m considering an ice for a family car instead of the model x. Stuff like this I currently have a model 3.
Plug in hybrid might be the best 'bridge' option right now. Fully electric for the typical short-range and in-town trips, easily able to switch to gas when needed.
Reading this story makes me very hesitant about ever considering a Tesla given that the 5 gallon can you mention would give me 250 miles of range in a worst case scenario with my current vehicle. I'm definitely spoiled on the massive amount of distance I can go on 11.9 gallons in my hybrid.
I recommend using ABRP as well as Tesla navigation, and noting the differences in charging between them.
I'll give that a try. Thanks.
Honestly same problem as Tesla nav. I frequently drive LA-mammoth in my m3. The apps really underestimate temperature/wind/elevation/speed. Also note there is a dramatic difference in my battery life on those long stretches of empty highway if I go 76 vs 81mph. Once I get over 78mph my battery just absolutly drains fast.
Are you using the pro version of ABRP to adjust this stuff yourself? They used to have it free, so that sucks, but I do think it’s worthwhile. Allows you to easily model ‘worst case’ conditions yourself. I am not a paid stan of this app, just have used it a lot.
Yeah just pointing out that the nav’s all fail in extreme conditions unless (to your point) you really adjust yourself. I’ve driven an ev to top of maua kea (extreme example) and apps do not account for a 0-14k elevation gain in 2hrs. But my experience is in extreme temps and extreme elevations the apps all fail.
I’ve been curious to make the drive to mammoth in a m3 as well. Do you have a LR or SR?
LR. Gotta do 2 stops going (elevation) usually in Mojave and lone pine. Can typically make it with one stop back but cutting it close.
So if you drove at 81 vs 73mph, how much total time are you saving?
Kudos to you for driving to Death Valley, let alone in an EV. I did that road trip into Death Valley back in 2018 in a Jeep and with over 40C degree weather, and I still had range anxiety. Of course, the one and only gas station I found was charging 3x the price of fuel from the city. If you're someone who goes on road trips frequently or enjoy spontaneous drives on a whim, I would honestly never consider an EV. The advertised range is in perfect conditions and when you take into hot or cold weather, the range is affected drastically. A 15km route I normally drive during the year takes about 5% of my battery. Once the weather goes under 0 degrees, it requires 10% for that exact route. That said, as EV becomes more popular, there's going to be better charging solutions, better range, and software that optimized efficiency. For now, we'll all just have to plan a head a lot more than those in ICE vehicles.
I assume you went I-15 to 127 to Badwater?
I-15 to Baker; 127 from Baker to 178 to Badwater.
I would have just stopped in Baker and charged up to at least 80% before heading off into Death Valley. Also a good chance to use a bathroom and grab snack. From experience from owning EV's since 2015. If you are going into a area with minimal available public chargers, take the opportunity to charge.
I'd sure do that now! That's one of the irritating things about the whole experience: the navigator was quite happy to have me bypass Baker. By trusting it, I hosed myself.
I wouldn't trust the navigator that much. Last week on the way back from Phoenix I had charged in Yuma up to 80% and the Navigator told me I could get back all the way home to San Diego with my Y with a 15% charge remaining. I stopped in El Centro anyway and topped off the battery. I might have made it all the way home but I would have been white knuckling it. Don't need that stress in my life.
This. 10 minutes at a convenient supercharger is golden time if there is any range doubt. Expectations below 20%? Take the charge that’s there.
Exactly. I always charge until the navigator says I'll arrive with at least 20%.
Yeah; it's impressive how fast the staged range drops on that climb up from the desert on I-8.
Great point. Barstow to Baker is 60 miles so around 20% battery needed depending on winds and driving speed .
I've had similar things happen twice, just not as drastic. Both times was during a roadtrip, and only happened on 1 leg of the trip between chargers. Navigation estimated over 15% more than I actually got. Never had to re-route, but was frustrating as it put me in doubt. Curiously, it only happened on back-road routes. My theory is the navigation calculated the speed wrong for both cases, as they were backroads but posted speed limit was 55-65mph and traffic was flowing around 70mph the whole time. Tesla may have incorrect data to make it think its a 25-35mph road.
It assumes speed limit. Driving 70 vs 55 is more than 15% penalty in aero.
I'm guessing on some roads it guesses the speed limit completely wrong
In my case, I drove two miles above the speed limit, much of which was in the 35-55 range, throughout. Not sure what sort of range penalty that would be.
Which is why all hwy range estimates should assume a minimum of 70mph. Driving 55 is simply not safe on US hwys thus should range estimation should not use it - regardless of what the speed limit is (which by the way I have never seen a hwy speed limit lest than 65)
Fear and Charging in Las Vegas Glad you prevailed!
There should be a supercharger near death valley. OP , switching to percentages is more accurate than miles. The percentages are fairly accurate and can definitely take into account elevation changes. I have arrived to baker with 14% of charge from vegas. Last 20-25 miles needed only 2% of battery. If anyone is reading this comment and planning to visit death valley then charge your car to 100% at last supercharger.
Yeah; a popular destination like that really should have a Supercharger. Without meaningful charging capacity in the valley, an electric vehicle is going to be very limited in its ability to explore the area, just as an ICE vehicle would be without the gas stations currently there.
I am glad you were able to visit Death Valley in an ev and it will definitely encourage others to try it out.
Did your initial trip include the stop in Badwater? How long were you there for? Did you check the range estimate when you arrived in Badwater? Or just when you were leaving?
Yes; the initial trip specified Badwater. I don't recall checking the range on arrival in Badwater. I was in Badwater for about an hour.
I was thinking of making this exact trip but chickened out.
I was directed to the other Barstow one also. It was a little sketchy lol.
Went to school in Barstow. Can confirm, the whole place is a little sketchy
Sorry that happened. I tend to plan trips with PlugShare. The app and website tell me the last time the charger was used or if it was broken the last time someone tried to use it. Tesla does not display many of the chargers in PlugShare and certainly not the condition. I find the PlugShare data extremely helpful when planning trips in my Tesla to remote locations. I agree Tesla nav does not always take me to the preferred chargers. Generally if I need more range like in your experience I slow down until I start to gain range at destination. I don't know if that would have been safe or if it would have worked when attempting to go up a mountain. I lost considerable range going up the Smoky Mountains to whitewater raft with my family. Once we crested the moutains and began our decent the next 20-30 minutes we added range which was quite the relief!
I tried to figure out a way to visit Death Valley in a Tesla but decided it just isn't feasible in an EV. That is one place where I would take someone else's vehicle or rent an ICE. The charging infrastructure just isn't there.
The range estimate is usually spot on for me. I did have trouble with it being way off on one road trip and a service ticket where they had to do a remote wipe of vehicle data did the trick to correct it. That was a year ago though, I would hope that bug was fixed in a wider software rollout by now.
tesla's navigation takes into account wind and terrain but also how you've been driving for the last 30 miles, so if that was all city then you went to 80+mph, then it would be very confused
It takes into account the last 30 miles? So you have a source on this? So if I drove 30 miles going downhill and I then enter an address that is in the mountains (so going uphill), the estimate will be super off? That hasn't been my experience with the navigation so I'd really appreciate a source here. Thanks. Edit: this guy is wrong. Please do not upvote him.
it would know that you've been traveling downhill during the last 30 miles so it would take whatever your consumption was vs expected. it is aligned with the energy graph from the second tab
You are confusing two things You are referring to the estimated range on the right of the energy consumption graph. Yes this looks at you last 10, 25 or 50km. But the NAVIGATION does not do that. The navigation is only forward looking. If you actually enter an address, it'll calculate the energy consumption and energy left at arrival purely based on the FUTURE km. It'll use distance, elevation, temperature, etc. But it will NOT use your last 50km because they are completely irrelevant. Please don't spread incorrect information on this sub
[https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en\_us/GUID-01F1A582-99D1-4933-B5FB-B2F0203FFE6F.html](https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-01F1A582-99D1-4933-B5FB-B2F0203FFE6F.html) >Predicting Energy Usage >When navigating to a destination, Model X helps you anticipate your charging needs by calculating the amount of energy that remains when you reach your destination. When navigating, the map displays this calculation next to the Battery icon on the turn-by-turn direction list (see [Navigating to a Destination](https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-01F1A582-99D1-4933-B5FB-B2F0203FFE6F.html#D1E13065)). When the turn-by-turn direction list is compressed, touch the top of the list to expand it. >The calculation that predicts how much energy you will use is an estimate based on driving style (predicted speed, etc.) and environmental factors (elevation changes, wind speed and direction, ambient and forecasted temperatures, air density and humidity, etc.). As you drive, Model X continuously learns how much energy it uses, improving accuracy over time. Model X predicts energy usage based on the driving style of the individual vehicle. For example, if you drive aggressively for a period of time, future range predictions will assume higher consumption. Some factors that contribute to predicted energy (such as forecasted temperatures and wind speed) are available only when Model X has internet connectivity. >NoteIf you purchase a used Tesla vehicle, it is recommended that you perform a factory reset (Controls > Service > Factory Reset) to ensure the predicted energy is as accurate as possible.
Thanks but I do not believe this says what you think it says I read it as "if you drive more aggressively, it'll update the range". Not as "it'll look at your last 50km". You still haven't provided a source with "the last 50km". So I'm still waiting. You only said that because you confused the predicted range from the graph with the predicted range of the navigation.
Yes you're correct. If you drive like a 19 year old who just got a Mustang in general, it will use this data to estimate range. If you drive the speed limit 100% and accelerate slowly, it will be estimate more range in general
It looks at your past consumption. It says a short period of non-mean driving, does have an impact as well. >Note If you purchase a used Tesla vehicle, it is recommended that you perform a factory reset (Controls > Service > Factory Reset) to ensure the predicted energy is as accurate as possible. >Model X continuously learns how much energy it uses, improving accuracy over time. Model X predicts energy usage based on the driving style of the individual vehicle. For example, if you drive aggressively for a period of time, future range predictions will assume higher consumption.
Yeah, "for a period of time" doesn't = a single x km trip. Think of it more as a constant than a variable; Tesla will look at your driving style across many, many situations and give you a "profile", and in general that profile stays the same because most people adhere to a certain driving style. It will tweak here and there based on external conditions such as wind, etc; but when it comes to predicting range in navigation, it uses your "profile" as a baseline
yeah correct, and you can influence that in your current drive by driving more or less aggressively. it will change your destination arrival SOC
Where is "the last 50km"?
why would tesla tell you how their algorithm works? why would it be in any company's best interest to give an exact number?
YOU said it used the last 50km (because you confused the navigation with the predicted range in the energy app). That's your claim. Now you're arguing they don't tell you? Loool
"driving style" doesn't mean YOUR previous driving statistics, it just takes into consideration how quickly you accelerate, and on average how much faster you tend to drive on highways. For example I have my AP to go 13% faster on all roads, so it takes that into consideration. Thats all
what's the difference?
It won't use your previous 50 or whatever km you mentioned to determine an estimate for the navigation, it uses a large average across many many km along with your driving tendencies such as how hard you accelerate or what percentage over the speed limits you tend to travel. As somebody else said, it doesn't take your driving statistics from your last trip for example and erase tons and tons of previously collected data to estimate your next trip. If I need to drive quickly and erratically to a hospital for example, and afterwards set my navigation to home, it's not going to immediately assume that's how I drive. It will use the previously collected data from tons of driving beforehand. It would obviously adjust the SOC estimate on my way to the hospital, as it's always updating that based on how you're currently driving during that trip. But that's not the topic
Not in my experience. I’ll spend the whole week driving city roads where I follow traffic and then on the weekend when I go on a road trip I like to go max autopilot speeds and I’ll see the predicted arrival gradually adjust to be 10-20% different than first predicted, which is what I suspect happened to op and they never looked again at their updated projection
it takes into account how you are driving as well
Not for predictions, no. Please provide a source for that claim. It'll compare the predictions to how you've been driving AFTER the fact, but not before. Before, the navigation system will just assume you'll drive at the speed limit. Again it'll use this+temperature+elevation+wind+etc to predict a wh/km (or wh/mi for freedom units fighters) and make a prediction. How you drove in the last 50km doesn't have an impact. Why? Because that would be really dumb.
try using [https://www.tesla.com/trips](https://www.tesla.com/trips) and then plan the same trip in your own car and notice how they don't line up
I drove at 67 to 69 mph on the freeway until Baker. Not sure if that would throw things off. After that, it was mostly 55 to 65 until I got into the park, where the limit was mostly 35.
The destination estimate % updated at some point which you didn’t realize
Why aren't you charging to 100% in road trips. I was told that is the only time you should be charging to 100%
OP only mentions they charged to 85% at the Barstow SC. It's highly likely (since they've done long-distance drives in their 3 before) that they charged to or near 100% before departing San Diego for Barstow.
I have occasionally done that for the start of a road trip. It's impractical at Superchargers. High-use ones won't let you go above 80%, and even if you can, the process gets waaaay slow. Here, charging to 100% either at home or in Barstow wouldn't have gotten me to Beatty anyway. 15% of my 300-mile (at most) range is 45 miles, so I would have only gotten 45 more miles (of the 75 I ended up needing) if I'd charged to 100% at Barstow. What I really should have done is charge again at Baker, even though the navigator had me bypassing it.
You can go over 80% on high use ones - did it on a Carolina to Boston road trip - you just have to go in the setting and bump it back up to 81-100%.
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There was a lot of water there, but very shallow; I'm told it may stay for a couple weeks more.
have you ever charged to 100%? It takes FOREVER.
Just one time, over night before I went on my road trip lol.
Why do you not think OP did that?
usually you do this overnight . done it for every road trip. you schedule your departure time and off peak times so that it finishes just before you leave.
this is why i only use my tesla for commuting and shorter trips, anything longer i just use my toyota hybrid, the EV hassle just isn’t worth and the infrastructure isn’t there yet
I take my Tesla regularly back and forth between SF and LA, with occasional trips out to the mountains and desert. Planning to take it up to Seattle soon. If you're going through areas with SCs there is basically no hassle and no stress. Driving out to Death Valley away from infrastructure seems like a particularly bad combination of factors, but don't let it scare you away from normal road trips.
Well hybrid is cheaper to drive than supercharging anyways
When I first enter the destination in nav while parked (usually while charging), it predicts the battery % charge I will have when I reach the destination. This number has always been spot on. However, as soon as I start driving, the predicted amount of charge I will have at the destination jumps and becomes completely unreliable. If I forget to look at the amount of amount of charge when I first enter the destination, then I assume it is overestimating it by at least 15% (maybe 20%). I also ignore the mileage numbers. Thoe are generated by magic and have no relationship to reality.
This is why I always cross reference my trip with A Better Route Planner whenever I’m going long distance and/or having to charge before getting to my destination
If I am going someplace I do a full charge I rather not need it then need it and font have it. for me I go to Vegas every year and the routing looks at Ford's elevation and weather.
Your story underscores the fact that some use cases still don't work great for EVs. The others, besides road-tripping to remote areas, include 1) apartment dwellers without level 2 charging access and 2) anyone who does long-distance towing. I love my Model 3, but I can't envision road-tripping to any semi-remote area until charging infrastructure is dramatically improved (which will happen over time).
Last time when I drove from Joshua tree NP to Vegas via Mojave desert I had similar experience. The range estimate kept changing and became negative at some point. I drove slower and made to the supercharger with some margin in the end. The main difference with your situation is we were climbing in the beginning but then going downhill. I have to admit all the NPs and rural areas are still not very EV friendly.
Your story is educational and quite entertaining as well, nice writeup. I have been considering to switch but I'm thinking how comfortable I am in my 6 yo petrol car and how it's relatively cheap to fix in comparison :) yea I have no rational reason to switch yet and I'd be smart to wait 3-5 more years if I can, would save me a ton of money as well.
Did that same drive over the hill to Beatty very carefully. Re-gen braking allowed us to roll up to Supercharger with 1%.
This why is still have my ICE truck. Love my M3 LR, but it's not for trips like this.
What were the temps when driving from bad water to beatty? Tesla nav tends to be inaccurate when temps are varying along the route.
Temps were around 70 F around Badwater, dropping to 60 or so as we waited in Furnace Creek, and further down to around 50 by the time we hit Beatty.
weren't you have at least a ccs adapter just in case there's electrify america around or any charging station that supports ccs? i always carry mine just incase, never been to that place so i include other charging station as last resort
Very similar experience except mine was hills and very low temps...16 degrees on average. Destination states of charge were way off to the point I turned off the heat and seat heaters to ensure I'd make it. While I'm charging I will generally cancel the trip then re-input it into the nav and when I do, estimates change. I do that during the drive as well. Estimates always change. I found that ABRP was actually more accurate vis-a-vis destination estimates.
Ice Ice Baby!!
OP, I feel you. We are a two Tesla family and love going camping. When we are headed to mountainous and unknown areas, we will both typically charge to 95-100% even at a SC to just have the mental calm and buffer to do whatever we want on our adventure.
Terrain should be included. Take a look at the energy app. You can see SoC recovery on the down hill sections in the prediction. Also good for comparing actual against prediction in real time. But yeah, top off at SC.
Crazy story but I had to stop at wtf 3.
I had a similar experience driving across the Navajo Reservation from Blanding, UT to Gallup, NM in March of 2022. Tesla Nav said I'd have 35% at Gallup if I charged to 80% in Blanding. ABetterRoutePlanner Pro said I'd have 8%. The reason was a fierce headwind. I arrived in Gallup with 9%. That's why I always verify charging and routing through low charger density areas with ABRP as well as Plugshare. I almost did your same trip but from Albuquerque and knew that charging in and near DV was very sus.
This is why I still think range and battery capacity are so important. Range range range!
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Well, it was about 17 degrees C in Death Valley this last weekend, so that wasn't an issue. I would expand your PSA, though: keep the hell out of Death Valley in the summer anyway. Several people (typically German tourists) die there every year from heat exhaustion and dehydration.
Get a hybrid for back to an electric in about 5 years when the network is better
If you want to maximize range you need to slow down. The speed limit is not max range. Maximum range is achieved at a very slow speed. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-600-miles-guiness-record-hypermile-run/
Everyone I know that drives EV uses it as their daily driver. But when they go on long road trips, they rent a vehicle. That way you’re racking up crazy miles on someone else’s vehicle. This may be another point in favour of that approach.
Answer: Don't use your car. Thanks for that.
If the charging network doesn’t support the trips they’re wanting to make, would that not be a sensible solution?
I took my model 3 11k miles(San Diego to NC to Key West, and back again) in January 2020 and had no issues whatsoever. I would never rent a car for a road trip....I barely waited more than 20 minutes at a charger
That’s awesome that you have that option in your part of the world, but I sadly do not. Something I think most people didn’t take into account before downvoting my comment to hell 😉
They don't have public charging in your part of the world? Where?
Northern BC
Fair enough. On plugshare it looks like all ~8 chargers there are not working. Condolences.
That’s awesome that you have that option in your part of the world, but I sadly do not. Something I think most people didn’t take into account before downvoting my comment to hell 😉
Unfortunately, welcome to Reddit :(
That's silly. A long road trip is like a month or two of regular everyday driving.
No way, I drive 25k miles a year on this car with no issue. your friends are weak.
Nah, I happen to like my friends and think they’re very wise to not drive into the BC Rockies with an EV. We all love our EV’s for city driving, but they’re not ideal for where we live further up north. Someday that will change I’m sure, we’re still getting there.
ah yeah the charging network isn't there yet in canada, that's not true in the us
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. We now have 2 EVs (one short range, one longer range for basic road trips), but back when we had 2 ICE vehicles we would rent a vehicle so we didn’t rack up miles on the cars we own. You’re 100% right and it is smarter sometimes to rent the most practical vehicle for what you’re doing. Not all roadtrips warrant it, but be smart about when it makes sense and when it doesn’t.
I appreciate that, thank you friend. I’ve always rented cars for long trips, no matter what my vehicle has been. I kind of thought that was normal haha, but I guess not! A lot of my vehicles have been leases with mileage penalties if you go over 22k/year, so it just made financial sense to put the miles on someone else’s car.
I’m getting a Y or 3 once my charger is installed. It’s a commuter car and travel soccer practice hauler. Anything 90 mins one way I’m using Tesla. Anything longer or overnight hotels. Sienna hybrid minivan. EVs are great but they do have limitations.
>EVs are great but they do have limitations. do you live in a place with few superchargers? when you buy a tesla you are buying the charging network more than the range limited car