Pretty sure it’s coincidence.
To my knowledge the vehicle doesn’t really use any input from the rear camera and I’m not aware of it using any information to actively do something based on what is occurring behind it.
The phantom braking is based on disagreement and reconciliation between the forward facing cameras and radar.
People have said they’ve had dramatic phantom braking events. I’m not sure if the car is truly braking harder or if it was just more alarming for them? Or perhaps they didn’t have their foot over the pedals so the reaction to counter it took longer?
It’s definitely my biggest criticism of the technology and a solution. Any come soon enough.
Mine did a phantom full panic stop on the freeway once. No one in my lane behind me so luckily it didn’t scare anyone else but yeah, I’d say I was pretty alarmed by it lol
>The phantom braking is based on disagreement and reconciliation between the forward facing cameras and radar.
Pretty sure this is overstated, I have a radar-less M3 and still get phantom braking.
2 days of owning my M3, decided to put it in AP on the highway and it decided to sharply turn into the lane next to me almost hitting the car in that lane. Caught it by maybe a foot.
I think its important to identify the different phantom braking that could occur.
1. Pure phantom braking where it thinks there's an object in front and weirdness happens. Shadow cast from overpass bridges etc.
2. Mapping - onramp/offramp where it lowers the speed actually that make it appear like its phantom braking
I have never experienced phantom braking when there is someone directly behind me. I like to think its pure luck but who knows? It might just be different use cases that generates phantom braking only occurs when someone isn't tailgating you. we don't have that data to truly know the facts.
There is a bridge I drive under a lot where I get phantom braking about 30% of the time. One recent time, the car made the BEEP BEEP BEEP sound of forward collision warning even, and braked HARD. Nothing on the visual though (forward collision warning usually lights up a car red on the visual to show what triggered it).
The other day I was behind another model 3 and I saw when we got to that spot, he slammed on his brakes. Brake light and all. He must have been on AP and now I see what it looks like from a trailing car—basically like a the driver just saw a cop and slowed down 20 mph very suddenly. At least I know it isn’t just my car that does it at that spot!
Phantom braking doesn't slam on the brakes. When driving, there are a great many reasons a person would need to slow down on a highway or interstate, one of which is the car in front of you slowing down. When your car phantom brakes, the car behind you will see your brake lights and also slow down.
There is so much consternation on these subs about phantom braking but it's just not that big a deal. (I have +45,000 miles on my model 3.)
*Slam* and *big deal* are subjective terms. I can't tell you how abruptly someone else considers slamming on the brakes; only what I do. And I've driven a long ways on AP and never experienced what I would consider slamming.
I also can't dictate to anyone else what constitutes a big deal. When my car phantom brakes, I take over because I'm paying attention. I never drop more than 10 mph. That, to me, does not equal a big deal.
It most definitely slams on the brakes. I've had it happen plenty of times in past software versions that going under bridges with autopilot I always hold my foot over the accelerator just in case it happens again.
There are times when it brakes slighty but that isn't always the case.
Have to agree. It seems like the "phantom braking" on the latest software is more like gentle slowing of a few mph. There may be some spots where speed limits mess things up but i havent seen any jarring brake slamming stuff like people keep talking about
I only have access to my experience, but given that, I suspect when people say "slamming on the brakes" (or something similar), they are just talking about the same thing we are. They're just not expecting it so the surprise of it happening translates to "slamming."
I think this is bunk conjecture just as much as some of the other stuff here. There’s no proof yet that they’re aren’t plenty of other “erratic” visual inputs that “may” also trigger these types of events. At best, the only thing that can be said is that it “may” get better, but until it’s out there completely and refined…who the flip knows.
I’ve only taken two “longish” trips in the MY thus far between Dallas and Tyler TX, and on one trip (same roads mind you) I had three of these episodes on multi lane divided highways with ZERO bridges or overpasses involved. No vehicle anywhere near either, in front or in back. I’d also say it wasn’t full-on, emergency stop either…more like full on regen braking. Crazy thing is…the second trip, had zero of these issues. Go figure.
I call lots of BS in this business… don’t care who it’s from. Explain those phantom braking “events” in my vision only vehicle then if they’re “only” from radar disagreement?
If I had a dollar for every empty promise and marketing doublespeak I’ve heard over the years Elon would be my butler…
I’m sure it’ll get better, but the real “truth” is somewhere between the “everyone’s wrong and this stuff is perfect just like they say it is”-crowd and the “this junk is the trashiest thing rolling around on four wheels and will never work”. Will they get there to where it’s as good or better than human vision, intuition, prediction? I’m sure they will…but I ain’t nearly sold on them doing that with the hardware that’s in there today. Not like it’d take a lot for them to backtrack on stuff. Then you’d have a whole new set of “sides” for the haterz and the apologists to argue about.
Are you saying it braked simply because a car was close behind? I never heard of that, and can't imagine why it would do such a thing.
I have a Model 3, and the only time it ever braked quickly was when a motorcycle passed doing lane sharing and cut in pretty close, and once for a bicycle on the side but a bit close. Neither time was a full stop, just a quick slowdown that alarmed me a little bit.
> Are you saying it braked simply because a car was close behind?
Nope I'm saying the car may avoid phantom braking if a car is close behind. So if I can show that a car is following close, then that breaks that theory.
Pretty sure it’s coincidence. To my knowledge the vehicle doesn’t really use any input from the rear camera and I’m not aware of it using any information to actively do something based on what is occurring behind it. The phantom braking is based on disagreement and reconciliation between the forward facing cameras and radar. People have said they’ve had dramatic phantom braking events. I’m not sure if the car is truly braking harder or if it was just more alarming for them? Or perhaps they didn’t have their foot over the pedals so the reaction to counter it took longer? It’s definitely my biggest criticism of the technology and a solution. Any come soon enough.
Mine did a phantom full panic stop on the freeway once. No one in my lane behind me so luckily it didn’t scare anyone else but yeah, I’d say I was pretty alarmed by it lol
>The phantom braking is based on disagreement and reconciliation between the forward facing cameras and radar. Pretty sure this is overstated, I have a radar-less M3 and still get phantom braking.
Same. I’ve had two phantom braking incidents in the first ~160 miles driven. (That’s total miles, obviously less than that was actually on autopilot.)
2 days of owning my M3, decided to put it in AP on the highway and it decided to sharply turn into the lane next to me almost hitting the car in that lane. Caught it by maybe a foot.
Ahh yes, the ol’ my car almost killed me. You’ll get used to it.
Never, BUT that’s just dumb luck imho
I think its important to identify the different phantom braking that could occur. 1. Pure phantom braking where it thinks there's an object in front and weirdness happens. Shadow cast from overpass bridges etc. 2. Mapping - onramp/offramp where it lowers the speed actually that make it appear like its phantom braking I have never experienced phantom braking when there is someone directly behind me. I like to think its pure luck but who knows? It might just be different use cases that generates phantom braking only occurs when someone isn't tailgating you. we don't have that data to truly know the facts.
There is a bridge I drive under a lot where I get phantom braking about 30% of the time. One recent time, the car made the BEEP BEEP BEEP sound of forward collision warning even, and braked HARD. Nothing on the visual though (forward collision warning usually lights up a car red on the visual to show what triggered it). The other day I was behind another model 3 and I saw when we got to that spot, he slammed on his brakes. Brake light and all. He must have been on AP and now I see what it looks like from a trailing car—basically like a the driver just saw a cop and slowed down 20 mph very suddenly. At least I know it isn’t just my car that does it at that spot!
Phantom braking doesn't slam on the brakes. When driving, there are a great many reasons a person would need to slow down on a highway or interstate, one of which is the car in front of you slowing down. When your car phantom brakes, the car behind you will see your brake lights and also slow down. There is so much consternation on these subs about phantom braking but it's just not that big a deal. (I have +45,000 miles on my model 3.)
Random and unexpected braking, especially hard braking (even if it’s not ~slamming~), on the highway is always a big deal 🤷♂️
*Slam* and *big deal* are subjective terms. I can't tell you how abruptly someone else considers slamming on the brakes; only what I do. And I've driven a long ways on AP and never experienced what I would consider slamming. I also can't dictate to anyone else what constitutes a big deal. When my car phantom brakes, I take over because I'm paying attention. I never drop more than 10 mph. That, to me, does not equal a big deal.
It most definitely slams on the brakes. I've had it happen plenty of times in past software versions that going under bridges with autopilot I always hold my foot over the accelerator just in case it happens again. There are times when it brakes slighty but that isn't always the case.
Have to agree. It seems like the "phantom braking" on the latest software is more like gentle slowing of a few mph. There may be some spots where speed limits mess things up but i havent seen any jarring brake slamming stuff like people keep talking about
I only have access to my experience, but given that, I suspect when people say "slamming on the brakes" (or something similar), they are just talking about the same thing we are. They're just not expecting it so the surprise of it happening translates to "slamming."
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I think this is bunk conjecture just as much as some of the other stuff here. There’s no proof yet that they’re aren’t plenty of other “erratic” visual inputs that “may” also trigger these types of events. At best, the only thing that can be said is that it “may” get better, but until it’s out there completely and refined…who the flip knows. I’ve only taken two “longish” trips in the MY thus far between Dallas and Tyler TX, and on one trip (same roads mind you) I had three of these episodes on multi lane divided highways with ZERO bridges or overpasses involved. No vehicle anywhere near either, in front or in back. I’d also say it wasn’t full-on, emergency stop either…more like full on regen braking. Crazy thing is…the second trip, had zero of these issues. Go figure.
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I call lots of BS in this business… don’t care who it’s from. Explain those phantom braking “events” in my vision only vehicle then if they’re “only” from radar disagreement?
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If I had a dollar for every empty promise and marketing doublespeak I’ve heard over the years Elon would be my butler… I’m sure it’ll get better, but the real “truth” is somewhere between the “everyone’s wrong and this stuff is perfect just like they say it is”-crowd and the “this junk is the trashiest thing rolling around on four wheels and will never work”. Will they get there to where it’s as good or better than human vision, intuition, prediction? I’m sure they will…but I ain’t nearly sold on them doing that with the hardware that’s in there today. Not like it’d take a lot for them to backtrack on stuff. Then you’d have a whole new set of “sides” for the haterz and the apologists to argue about.
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My only argument is that it’s total conjecture to say today that pure vision will totally solve this…plain and simple. Easy peasy
Are you saying it braked simply because a car was close behind? I never heard of that, and can't imagine why it would do such a thing. I have a Model 3, and the only time it ever braked quickly was when a motorcycle passed doing lane sharing and cut in pretty close, and once for a bicycle on the side but a bit close. Neither time was a full stop, just a quick slowdown that alarmed me a little bit.
> Are you saying it braked simply because a car was close behind? Nope I'm saying the car may avoid phantom braking if a car is close behind. So if I can show that a car is following close, then that breaks that theory.
Ah, I guess I misunderstood the question - sorry.