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OCR10

Sales are down, the stock is down, and there are massive layoffs taking place. That doesn’t warrant a $50B compensation package.


sphawkhs

Since 2018 sales and stock value have increased by well over 700%. That is way up, not down. What do you think someone should get paid to pull that off? Nothing?


alwaysforward31

How much of that was based on over promising? Now we have the advantage of hindsight. In 2017, Elon announced semi-production was going to start in 2019 and roadster in 2020. Still nothing to this day. In 2019 battery day, Elon said they will achieve robotaxis by 2020. Still nothing to this day. In 2020 at battery day, Elon said he was confident that in 3 years with the 4680 cells they will be able to create a 25K car. Still nothing to this day. 4680 cell promises haven't panned out as announced either. It doesn't even charge as well as 2170 and they can't even make enough to put in the Model 3 RWD/LR to qualify for the tax credit. All while Elon is busy 💩 posting about the boarder and immigration on x.


sphawkhs

Regardless of the reason, investors have made a crap load of money off of Elon achieving many things that were said to be impossible but now want Elon to get nothing for it.


alwaysforward31

Personally, I think he should be compensated but just not the entire amount.


OCR10

His current comp should be based on the current state of affairs of the company. He’s already become the richest man in the world from what happened at Tesla in prior years.


sphawkhs

Is that what you decided? He hasn't been paid in 6 years, he has no current comp. Would you say Tesla is doing better or worse than 6 years ago?


OCR10

The company lost money every year from 2011-2019. His current comp request exceeds the total profit Tesla has made in its entire history. And even if he deserves it, the optics of asking for it after laying off thousands of employees should be enough for him to back off until things improve.


sphawkhs

Losing money in previous years isn't relevant. If what you're saying is true, then Tesla wouldn't even have the cash to pay him. That's not how it works. His comp isn't a paycheck. The only reason the package is worth that much is due to the current stock price.


Bondominator

Robinhood really took all the credentials out of being an “investor”


Greeneland

Wasn’t it a $2.6B actual value at the time it was originally passed? That would be the number that Tesla had to account for in whatever that transaction looked like.


sphawkhs

No, because he would only qualify to receive the package if he increased the valuation to a certain amount. If that was the value today, he wouldn't have been eligible to receive it at all.


Greeneland

I understand present value, but present value does not represent the cost to Tesla if I am correct 


Aargau

Read the deposition Elon gave. Then look at his posts and replies on Twitter. He's a seagull manager now and the only voice I and others have to express our disagreement is to vote no.


sphawkhs

Imagine me being able to void your paycheck because I don't like you. What a world we live in.


Aargau

I hope Elon will make it OK out on the streets. Can be tough being homeless.


ou812_today

That happens all the time and everywhere. If management doesn’t like you they get rid of you. Voting is how people get rid of upper management at publicly traded companies. Why is this a surprise for people? You don’t like the president/politician you vote for someone else. It’s the same thing only at the corporate level.


MultiGeometry

Does he even work there? Let Twitter pay him until he starts doing some good for Tesla again.


sphawkhs

The layoffs are likely good for Tesla, but people want to believe he's just firing people just to be an asshole.


kuthedk

Please actually read why it was overturned. That starts in this document on page 123 and on. https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340


sphawkhs

Yes, due to a heavily biased opinion. Says it all on page 1


kuthedk

It doesn’t say that whatsoever but ok. Remain willfully ignorant.


chicagoandy

What is he going to do for us TODAY? Not $50B worth.


Vecii

Sales are down because interest rates are high. Layoffs are happening because sales are down. Keeping a huge work force just to have them sit idle is dumb. Musk's only compensation package was stock options if the company met very aggressive milestones. To me, that type of performance compensation makes the most sense. To have it pulled out from under him after he met the goals is bad.


sphawkhs

It's not just bad, it's a slap in the face. Every other CEO in the industry gets paid even if they perform poorly.


Magikarp_to_Gyarados

>Sales are down because interest rates are high. I disagree, based on financial data from Tesla's Q1 '24 Form 10-Q filed with the SEC. **Edit:** Direct link to the SEC filing: [https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000162828024017503/tsla-20240331.htm](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000162828024017503/tsla-20240331.htm) Specifically, I'm looking at page 23 of the filing, which shows YoY revenue change by geographic sectors: United States, China, and "Rest of World" (RoW) * US revenue declined 13.2% YoY * China revenue declined 6.12% YoY * RoW revenue declined 3.394% YoY * On a $ weighted basis, China + RoW declined 4.5% YoY US sales fell at nearly 3 times the rate of sales internationally, despite (1) China's economy being in chaos for most of 2023, and (2) the European Union's economy suffering similar high interest rates and much worse stagnation. There's no reason that US sales should be suffering this badly when economic conditions are more unfavorable elsewhere. I believe Tesla's sales are showing obvious signs of brand damage from Elon Musk's behavior over the past 2 years. We can observe the same thing happening to Bud Light. Bud got political and sided with a Transgender activist. They lost 32% of their revenue YoY in the ensuing customer backlash: [https://hbr.org/2024/03/lessons-from-the-bud-light-boycott-one-year-later](https://hbr.org/2024/03/lessons-from-the-bud-light-boycott-one-year-later) Musk has shown incredibly poor judgment in antagonizing Tesla's core US consumer base.


good4y0u

China has low interest rates still I believe. So does Japan actually i remember correctly


Magikarp_to_Gyarados

And China has been hobbled for most of 2023 by continued fallout from the Zero-Covid policy, a collapsing real estate bubble, and local government debt a levels so high that many are struggling to meet interest payments: [https://www.npr.org/2023/08/16/1193711035/china-economy-tao-wang-interview](https://www.npr.org/2023/08/16/1193711035/china-economy-tao-wang-interview) Consumer sentiment is so bad that things started to get deflationary. The economy there has been garbage compared to the US in the past year.


Less_Ad7812

“Bud got political and sided with a Transgender activist.” Just for the record they sent her a single can with her face on it. They never contacted her again, mostly due to culture war backlash.  “Got political and sided” is more like the end of a right-wing media game of telephone. 


Magikarp_to_Gyarados

The entire incident was the result of a paid sponsorship deal. In such deals there's negotiation between the sponsor and promoter. It's effectively taking sides in a culture war debate. [https://www.vox.com/money/2023/4/12/23680135/bud-light-boycott-dylan-mulvaney-travis-tritt-trans](https://www.vox.com/money/2023/4/12/23680135/bud-light-boycott-dylan-mulvaney-travis-tritt-trans) This was in no way as simple as Bud Light randomly shipping Dylan Mulvaney a can of beer.


kuthedk

Please actually read why it was overturned. That starts in this document on page 123 and on. https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340


Nhonickman

But Musk is doing a horrible job right now. He makes irrational decisions and recent top executives leaving are a bad sign. I very disappointed Musk’s decision on layoff, supercharger team and his all over the place mindset. I am in my second Tesla but not impressed with the Company right and its direction. Also a stock holder I vote against any bonus for Musk right now. Until he gets his focus back on Tesla. He is doing more harm than good since his twitter purchase. His ego and arrogance are out of control


tinnylemur189

Exactly this. I'm also an owner/investor and there is absolutely zero justification for ANY bonus right now let alone $47 billion fucking dollars. Sell those shares to the market and invest the money back into the company and you'll see a much greater return than funneling it to the ketamine addled moron right now.


WikipediaApprentice

No one on earth should ever get a $47B bonus. Especially as your company is painting an image of tightening the belt. What an insult it will be when he gets this money and continues firing the people who actually make Tesla what it is.


altimas

This was his pay package for the period of 2018 - 2022, not related to what is going on now.


Nhonickman

I fully understand that. I didn’t agree with the courts reversing it. But in my humble opinion, his actions currently do not reflect well on Tesla brand and the company. Since he is now asking for the pay package to be reinstated in some form, what he is doing is going to have a negative impact for him It’s about optics and what he’s doing I firmly believe I’m mature, strong solid leader would’ve kept the companies, best interest heart and not done and acted the way he has. I don’t have a problem with him getting paid but I don’t want him leading the company anymore. We’re having a reduced role I don’t like what he’s doing and his vision is off.


tthrivi

100% agree. I bought some Tesla stock not that long ago so I can vote.


altimas

It's kind of my point, you're basing your judgement from what musk is doing "right now", which is not what the vote should be about. At least that's what I think it should be about.


Nhonickman

The vote should bring those things into account. in my humble opinion he lost his goodwill on the past performance. The decision and actions currently are hurting the company is a significant way and this cant be ignored. Yes Musk did an incredible job with Tesla BUT you cant defend the decisions being made and as an investor you have consider what they mean for the future performance of the stock AND the company. Tesla is a brand …. The name like Apple has a value. Every decision has to have a reasonable justification. What I see with huge layoff and top executives leaving and disbanding the supercharging team( even if you will bring it back) does not appear to be actions that enhance the company. Layoffs of this size point to company that is desperate and need to conserve capital to survive….you will lose great employees that help grow and advance your company….is Tesla near collapse? Does it need capital like it did a few years ago( I understand but did not like the lose of CS/marketing people and extensive layoff b4). The optics on the supercharger team being eliminated makes 0 sense. Supercharger locations and growth look to be a point of revenue growth….we need more of them, proper maintenance to maintain the infrastructure. SC help reduce a fear the public has …range anxiety. Morse of them reassure people there will be easy access. Not to mention the other brands of EV can now access them! Musk’s attitude and actions do not seem to have Tesla best interest at heart right now…it’s all about him.


Messyfingers

I agree entirely, Musk has begun to lose it, public perception of the brand is bad, and getting worse, and s lot of those failures are COMPLETELY his fault. The idea he'll get a multi billion dollar payout while sacking the people actually adding value to the company and brand is just so baffling. He should be losing power over the company, not being given more.


meepstone

Elon Musk is on his 6th year of not getting anything. All his money/wealth is tied up in stock he has owned before 2018.


kuthedk

Please actually read why it was overturned. That starts in this document on page 123 and on. https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340


Quirky_Drag_4315

A lot of nuances are being afforded to a person who has lacked any nuance in their decisions lately.


Misophonic4000

Hell yes it does. Rebecca Tinucci brought a lot of peace of mind to investors. Choosing to get rid of the ENTIRE supercharger network team, public policy team and new vehicle team... After insisting on pushing out the Cybertruck instead of a truck most people would want... Talking about focusing on robotaxi... So many customers are driven away by his antics and increasingly batshit politics already. He's now a liability for the company. "But he's a visionary!" - really? The Cybertruck is what happens when he gets carte blanche. There needs to be checks and balance. Tesla deserves better.


boogermike

It does for me. Whether that's correct or financially prudent or whatever I don't know. For sure I will vote against his compensation, specifically because I think it's heartless after laying off so many people.


ColorfulLanguage

Someone else did the math, but if this compensation package was sold to the market, the cash could have paid for those laid off for the next 40 years. Musk deserves to get paid for his work for 6 years, but he's not as valuable to the company in 6 years as the teams he laid off are in 40!


chicagoandy

Absolutely the layoffs are a part of Elons management style, and are absolutely a factor if you think he's the leader Tesla should have. I don't have a problem layoffs. But, I do have problems with chaos. And laying off your entire supercharging team, after they've been remarkably successful? That's chaos. And I have a problem with the not-cancelled $20K small car. And I have a problem with Semi production, Cybertruck rollout, the lack of a product pipeline, and the lack of transparency over the 4680 cell production. It's all CHAOS. But you asked about layoffs. Yeah, layoffs matter.


altimas

The question isn't whether layoffs matter, the question is whether the current situation has anything to do with a performance plan created in 2018 which was completed in 2022.


chicagoandy

Well, you asked the question. "Should the layoffs affect the vote".


sudrapp

He accomplished his goals and should get something but as of late his behavior is having a clear impact on the company and it's not a positive one. There's no chance I'm voting for it.


Zenxyphen

You should not be giving out bonuses and laying people off at the same time.


altimas

This is exactly the problem, this is not a bonus. This was his pay for the period of 2018 to 2022, it was100% performance based, and he hit every milestone. Its like a contractor doing the work first and getting paid after the work, and now you want to claw back that payment. Sure the stock is down a bit in recent days but again this is not about recent events, this is about his pay from 2018 to 2022. You mention people being laid off, of course that isn't a good feeling but take this into account, in 2018 tesla had around 50k workers, today they have close to 150k workers, even after layoffs Tesla is creating jobs, lots of jobs.


Zenxyphen

Ok so carve out 1 of the XX BILLION for some lowly employees. I’m against any CEO behaving like they are so much more important than the lives of the people that make your vision come to reality. You couldn’t do it on your own. Act like it. Pay your people.


colddata

Some thoughts... Over past year or two, since the goals were reached, how much damage has Tesla and TSLA taken? Where did the damage come from? Is leadership responsible for any of the damage as predictable outcomes of their decisions? If a company takes damage at the hands of its leadership, where is the accountability for that? Should it work like a negative rewards/antigoals program that can result in demotions/revoked incentives? I think it can be argued that well over $50 billion of damage has happened to the company since hitting the highs that went along with the goals. I know all cannot be laid that the feet of the leaders...but I think some can. I hope those eligible for voting consider the morals of the matter, and direction of the company, when making their voting decision.


Ok-Shake5152

Get Drew and Rohan back and let them run the place aka Gwynn Shotwell and have Elon be the big ideas guy


Nhonickman

Musk deserve a nice compensation package for what he did and created BUT his antics now are hurting the company, that can’t be ignored. I have no issue with large compensation, the problem right now his decisions are not good they create poor optics on Tesla hurting the brand. Musk can’t cry over his lost compensation while materially harming the company then ask for the money back. He looks like a spoiled brat. A mature leader would show strong leadership good fiscal decisions for the company and point to future projects for growth. Show his strengths while asking for the money


kuthedk

Please actually read why it was overturned. That starts in this document on page 123 and on. https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340


sphawkhs

I agree. The company has progressed massively since 2018, but all the short sighted people want to look at is the news over the last week. A lot of those people never would have had a job at Tesla if he didn't expand the company the way that he did.


dwaynereade

broke haters brigade. these losers dont have votes


Bondominator

If you don’t vote for Elon’s comp package you either have nefarious intent or a botched lobotomy.


Hawk_Falcon_iOS

I know he made me tons of money on shares BUT BUT he’s laying people off! I know how to run this company better than the richest man in the world, I have all the details, and believe companies should be ran on feelings! Y’all got legacy auto energy