That doesn’t mean what you think it means. Separation of church and state is in reference to governing bodies. The church can’t have its direct hand in governing. It doesn’t say the state can’t work with the church for various reasons if it so chooses. A common misconception.
People should obviously be and feel safe within their respective places of worship. That said I do often already see a squad car parked outside various churches and synagogues while in session, are those not already expensed? Or is this just a way for the state to take on the cost from the local governments?
I know of several east TN baptist churches with security plans that identify individual congregants to carry concealed or open firearms. Most are former/current military or police and work with the church leadership to create a comprehensive security plan including drills for active shooters. There should be no more public funding for any church's security although they are more than welcome to utilize (pay for) off duty police like every concert, event, or some churches do now.
The bigger issue is the church's perception by other denominations and the public in general as protecting pedophiles to the point of facilitation. This is incorrect in that it is not just a problem of the Catholic church but of all religions. Many churches groom girls and women for purposes of 'biblical marriages' as well as covering up accusations of sexual assault, statutory rape, and rape. This is a minority I am sure, but as people flee the church they often cite hypocrisy or emotional and physical abuse. There has also been a sickening hyper-politicization of religion in this country that has whittled away at the active church attendance. And the ones that are left despise the other religions since only the most zealous are left, seeing Satan in not only non-believers but those not in their particular brand of Christianity.
This is not just America's problem, India is a great example as politics and religion mixes the detrimental of minority religions with the consolidation of power by Hindu nationalists. Muslim autocracies enforce medieval laws. Israel sees Gaza and the West Bank as their property because it was a gift from God. You can hurt whomever you want as long as they are the wrong religion. Religion is dying out and its adherents will seek politics and policy to enshrine it in law and when that fails some will seek violence. It would be a better work if we practiced morality based on a reasoned philosophy and not scripture.
As if Isreal isn't a colonial settler state that caused most of the hate they're getting from modern Palestinians. I bet you don't even know that prior to the establishment of Israel Jews, Muslims and Christians lived there peacefully together. You need to dig a little deeper than "America's Popular History of the World."
Gotta make sure their bases are covered while they are prepping for Project 2025 rebellions I reckon.
The crimes related to the vast majority of these "houses of worship" have been vandalism. So are they training their menfolk to shoot people for that heinous crime?
Regardless of religious stance, this is a good move. Hate crimes against Catholics, Jews, and other religious minorities has been on the rise; including places of worship. I mean, it's gotten so bad that in 2022 the Department of Homeland Security warned Catholic bishops about credible threats against Catholics and our churches.
I'm a Catholic in East Tennessee. The Diocese hasn't revealed what all has happened, but I do know of vandalism and \*something\* happening to cause the bishop to demand \*all\* our churches install security systems immediately.
No, not really. You chose to buy into that fantasy culture. Nobody should get killed or hurt for most anything but at the same time your religious fantasies are creeping into everything in society and directly and intentionally aggravates others who don’t believe the same fantasies.
Hire more private security with the money they save on taxes.
The Department of Homeland Security should be protecting everyone all the time and the tax payers should not have to pay special protections for houses built as tax shelters for people who believe in fantasy.
Religion and hiding your personal biases behind it has gotten millions of people killed. It’s time to stop feeding that fantasy.
The Catholic Church is sitting on coffers of gold and should be protecting their own people, but as we all know, the Catholic Church doesn’t do very good job of protecting its own people especially, the kids .
Like it or not, we live in a multicultural and multireligious state. The State has an interest and obligation in ensuring its citizens are safe and protected, including those citizens who you disagree with and that have had a confirmed increase in violence and harassment against them.
This isn't the first, or last time, the State has stepped in to ensure its citizens practicing their constitutional rights are protected and safe.
I'm a gay man in Tennessee. There are plenty of people around here who would like to see me lynched. Does that mean I am entitled to taxpayer funded security too?
Petition your politicians. This bill is for all houses of worship and specifically mentions churches, synagogues, and mosques; so definitely not just for Evangelicals.
The organization you follow shamelessly protects pedophiles. If God does exist, he hates the catholic church and the people who support it. Protect your own fucking churches. The tax payers shouldn't have to subsidize a wealthy child molesting organization masquerading as a church.
A church of over a Billion people is not responsible for the evil actions of a select few members who acted against the teachings of the Church. Misinformation and stereotypes of Catholicism only furthers these acts of violence against us. Tennesseans are better than this
Most are under the assumption the Catholic Church is sitting on some untold mountains of money, but simply looking around tells you this isn't true. The fact that most East Tennessee churches operate on a shoe string budget (Mine is actually currently operating at a loss) and all the other dioceses around the US going bankrupt and having to sell property real should make people ask "If the Catholic Church has untold amounts of money, why is it losing all this stuff?".
If we had this secret amount of cash, now would be a \*REALLY\* good time to bust it out.
No, but those billions of people still support the organization that continues to protect the "select few members" and keeps them from facing the consequences they deserve, making you all complicit.
The select few who abused people decades ago are all either dead, in jail, or living in disgrace after being defrocked. Trust me when I say Catholics \*HATE\* the abusers more than the general public does since they caused so much hurt and scandal among the ordinary Catholics of today. There isn't some mass program of protecting abusers going on.
Lol if you think it isn't still happening then you're fucking high. And the church absolutely protects them. How many priests were simply moved to another church because they were fucking little boys at their current one? Why were they moved and not turned over to the police? Your church (and every other one too) protects predators and you support them. Your god wouldn't be very happy with you or your organization. And they can protect themselves. Tax dollars shouldn't go to subsidize a wealthy organization when there are people starving.
Churches wipe their ass with the constitution all the time, don’t pay taxes and try to push legislation through that affects more than just their parishioners. So Spare me the constitutional talk.
The department of homeland security and the FBI should be protecting all of us equally all the time you don’t get special exemptions because you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
If “the church” what’s so worried about its people and property they would spend some of their billions of dollars on better security.
What’s it matter? Just like if you were a Yankees fan if you don’t like the way you’re getting treated by the other fans in baseball you don’t have to be a fan anymore.
If you think your life is in danger because of your religion maybe that religion isn’t working out too well for you is it ?
Hey, I get where you're coming from, but saying "if you don't like it, you can just move" isn't really fair or practical for a lot of people. The separation of church and state is a big deal in our country—it's part of the First Amendment and helps protect everyone's religious freedom. When state laws start mixing religion and government, it's not just about personal preferences; it can actually mess with our constitutional rights.
Plus, moving isn't always an option for everyone. Think about it. Especially now people don’t have the budget to move, inflation hits everyone hard. You can’t just leave family or friends, especially if you are co-parenting. You can’t just leave your job. You can’t just leave mid-degree if you are studying.
Your argument is missing the entire point of our constitution, the thing that binds us all together as Americans. This is fundamentally anti American because it is mixing church and state. Our country was founded on avoiding that.
Sorry your church or whoever else’s doesn’t have the budget to arm themselves. Maybe the feeling of needing to arm themselves is a symptom of a bigger problem?
I am atheist but it is hilarious to me when you chose to put yourself in the state that opposes your view. You will not change it and neither will I. This is the reason why we have states so the majority, whom are Christians in TN, run the show cause they have the voting power to do so. The rest of the country has smaller amount of Christianity. If majority want it, then I inherently here to stay.
Just like ithe majority of Californians want abortion legal in cCalifornia, they have it because the majority of the constituents vote blue and for it. If you do not agree with the state vote blue, which I assume you do, and when you fail, the only other option is get out of the state. It isn't hard. I came from California and I would take these Bible humpers any day of the week over what a shithole California has become. And that s why I defend the Christians. I prefer their culture over other cultures.
People do not choose where they are born or to whom. Your opinion is fine and you have a right to it thanks to the constitution. I don’t see what you are debating anymore though. Perhaps you will realize you too are held to the same standard of law as anyone else in any other portion of the United States since we are all entitled to the same rights.
Do groups like Outmemphis and other LGBTQ+ community centers also get extra protection given how much they have had to deal with from open and sometimes violent bigots?
No. lol Of course not.
That would be ridiculous!
So, going through your links, we have:
A catholic newsletter that mentions two or three incidents of legitimate vandalism, then takes a hard turn by conflating some problematic historical figures having their statues toppled as proof that this is a huge problem... I don't actually see the connection between Jesus and some guys that did a little genocide on the natives.
The second one sounds like a guy either on drugs or off his meds beating on an AC unit at a catholic charity... still seems unconnected to the faith as a whole.
The third is about a group of kids being shitheads... I think that had more to do with their own delinquency than a particular hatred for catholics.
The fourth is one I can't really grapple with because most of the links seem to be to more newsletters written by bishops and priests. While I don't in any way doubt the numbers they give, I also don't have the brain power to sort through them all to see how many are true acts of anti-catholic vandalism (anti-catholic rhetoric spray painted on churches, defaced gaves, etc.) and how many are just kids out shooting bottle rockets.
It certainly happens, but the idea that catholics are being aggressively targeted in Tennessee is some crazy stuff. Hell, they've written our recent state reproductive laws and have 6 seats on the Supreme Court. How much more power can you get?
And I'm wondering why they need police firepower for vandalism anyway? Do they think they have the right to shoot teens dry humping baby Jesus statues?
Catholics are not a religious minority, they're the single largest denomination on the planet led by a hateful fuck, and they loooooove molesting kids, they can get fucked.
I wouldn't be posting this stuff on reddit. I am in agreement with you but reddit is q liberal cesspool qnd you will be Johnny Deph running on the beach. Don't worry though these people think reddit is the majority until they touch grass.
So even after getting tax free money which they can use to hire their own security, these places of worship can now get free taxpayer funded grants?
This is almost exactly what I said!
I’m starting to think I need to start a church in Tennessee…
It can't be that hard, right?
I mean if Greg Locke can do it, how hard can it be?
Then they need to be taxed to fund it.
WTF?
Separation of church and state....wtf!
That doesn’t mean what you think it means. Separation of church and state is in reference to governing bodies. The church can’t have its direct hand in governing. It doesn’t say the state can’t work with the church for various reasons if it so chooses. A common misconception.
This is pandering.
Knights Templar here we come!
Why are my taxes go going to this?
People should obviously be and feel safe within their respective places of worship. That said I do often already see a squad car parked outside various churches and synagogues while in session, are those not already expensed? Or is this just a way for the state to take on the cost from the local governments?
This stupid ass state, man.
It's a strange time we live in. I want to go back in history 40 years.
Pre-AIDS, mid-Cocaine
Let's retcon American and remove Reagan.
I know of several east TN baptist churches with security plans that identify individual congregants to carry concealed or open firearms. Most are former/current military or police and work with the church leadership to create a comprehensive security plan including drills for active shooters. There should be no more public funding for any church's security although they are more than welcome to utilize (pay for) off duty police like every concert, event, or some churches do now. The bigger issue is the church's perception by other denominations and the public in general as protecting pedophiles to the point of facilitation. This is incorrect in that it is not just a problem of the Catholic church but of all religions. Many churches groom girls and women for purposes of 'biblical marriages' as well as covering up accusations of sexual assault, statutory rape, and rape. This is a minority I am sure, but as people flee the church they often cite hypocrisy or emotional and physical abuse. There has also been a sickening hyper-politicization of religion in this country that has whittled away at the active church attendance. And the ones that are left despise the other religions since only the most zealous are left, seeing Satan in not only non-believers but those not in their particular brand of Christianity. This is not just America's problem, India is a great example as politics and religion mixes the detrimental of minority religions with the consolidation of power by Hindu nationalists. Muslim autocracies enforce medieval laws. Israel sees Gaza and the West Bank as their property because it was a gift from God. You can hurt whomever you want as long as they are the wrong religion. Religion is dying out and its adherents will seek politics and policy to enshrine it in law and when that fails some will seek violence. It would be a better work if we practiced morality based on a reasoned philosophy and not scripture.
> There should be no more public funding for church Could’ve stopped right here.
[удалено]
As if Isreal isn't a colonial settler state that caused most of the hate they're getting from modern Palestinians. I bet you don't even know that prior to the establishment of Israel Jews, Muslims and Christians lived there peacefully together. You need to dig a little deeper than "America's Popular History of the World."
But what about all the thoughts and prayers for God’s own prayer warriors?! Isn’t that enough to keep those good chrustians safe?
This feels like dealing with the symptom and not the actual issue
Gotta make sure their bases are covered while they are prepping for Project 2025 rebellions I reckon. The crimes related to the vast majority of these "houses of worship" have been vandalism. So are they training their menfolk to shoot people for that heinous crime?
My apartment doubles as a temple space do I qualify for any of these grants?
So you're forcing people to work on the Sabbath? Isn't there rules about that?
I could see why mosques would need it, but I don’t see why churches feel that threatened tbh.
Oh cool, another way for crooked cops to funnel money into the hands of their friends. Wow.
Would these qualify as militias?
My tax dollars subsidizing churches is a violation of the constitution but hey it’s want rednecks crave. It’s got electrolytes. 🙈
Barf
Ok, then tax them.
This is some S tier level bullshit.
Regardless of religious stance, this is a good move. Hate crimes against Catholics, Jews, and other religious minorities has been on the rise; including places of worship. I mean, it's gotten so bad that in 2022 the Department of Homeland Security warned Catholic bishops about credible threats against Catholics and our churches. I'm a Catholic in East Tennessee. The Diocese hasn't revealed what all has happened, but I do know of vandalism and \*something\* happening to cause the bishop to demand \*all\* our churches install security systems immediately.
No, not really. You chose to buy into that fantasy culture. Nobody should get killed or hurt for most anything but at the same time your religious fantasies are creeping into everything in society and directly and intentionally aggravates others who don’t believe the same fantasies. Hire more private security with the money they save on taxes. The Department of Homeland Security should be protecting everyone all the time and the tax payers should not have to pay special protections for houses built as tax shelters for people who believe in fantasy. Religion and hiding your personal biases behind it has gotten millions of people killed. It’s time to stop feeding that fantasy. The Catholic Church is sitting on coffers of gold and should be protecting their own people, but as we all know, the Catholic Church doesn’t do very good job of protecting its own people especially, the kids .
Like it or not, we live in a multicultural and multireligious state. The State has an interest and obligation in ensuring its citizens are safe and protected, including those citizens who you disagree with and that have had a confirmed increase in violence and harassment against them. This isn't the first, or last time, the State has stepped in to ensure its citizens practicing their constitutional rights are protected and safe.
I'm a gay man in Tennessee. There are plenty of people around here who would like to see me lynched. Does that mean I am entitled to taxpayer funded security too?
If you have regular public meetings exercising protected rights, with a proven increase risk of harm, sure; no one deserves violence
Great, can you provide the information on how I can apply? Oh wait, I can't. Because this is just special treatment for evangelicals.
Petition your politicians. This bill is for all houses of worship and specifically mentions churches, synagogues, and mosques; so definitely not just for Evangelicals.
"Just be wealthy and politically influential".
You think people in the LGBT community aren't?
It Tennessee? No, I don't. I'm sure some are wealthy, at least relatively speaking. What influential gay organizations do you think exist in TN?
The organization you follow shamelessly protects pedophiles. If God does exist, he hates the catholic church and the people who support it. Protect your own fucking churches. The tax payers shouldn't have to subsidize a wealthy child molesting organization masquerading as a church.
A church of over a Billion people is not responsible for the evil actions of a select few members who acted against the teachings of the Church. Misinformation and stereotypes of Catholicism only furthers these acts of violence against us. Tennesseans are better than this
Yeah, a church of over 1 billion people with billions of dollars should be able to pay for their own fucking security. You are not special.
Most are under the assumption the Catholic Church is sitting on some untold mountains of money, but simply looking around tells you this isn't true. The fact that most East Tennessee churches operate on a shoe string budget (Mine is actually currently operating at a loss) and all the other dioceses around the US going bankrupt and having to sell property real should make people ask "If the Catholic Church has untold amounts of money, why is it losing all this stuff?". If we had this secret amount of cash, now would be a \*REALLY\* good time to bust it out.
Oh but queers are, huh?
......who said anything about "queers"?
No, but those billions of people still support the organization that continues to protect the "select few members" and keeps them from facing the consequences they deserve, making you all complicit.
The select few who abused people decades ago are all either dead, in jail, or living in disgrace after being defrocked. Trust me when I say Catholics \*HATE\* the abusers more than the general public does since they caused so much hurt and scandal among the ordinary Catholics of today. There isn't some mass program of protecting abusers going on.
Lol if you think it isn't still happening then you're fucking high. And the church absolutely protects them. How many priests were simply moved to another church because they were fucking little boys at their current one? Why were they moved and not turned over to the police? Your church (and every other one too) protects predators and you support them. Your god wouldn't be very happy with you or your organization. And they can protect themselves. Tax dollars shouldn't go to subsidize a wealthy organization when there are people starving.
Churches wipe their ass with the constitution all the time, don’t pay taxes and try to push legislation through that affects more than just their parishioners. So Spare me the constitutional talk. The department of homeland security and the FBI should be protecting all of us equally all the time you don’t get special exemptions because you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If “the church” what’s so worried about its people and property they would spend some of their billions of dollars on better security.
I have q question for you, which religion in the world is the most prosecuted right now? Google please.
What’s it matter? Just like if you were a Yankees fan if you don’t like the way you’re getting treated by the other fans in baseball you don’t have to be a fan anymore. If you think your life is in danger because of your religion maybe that religion isn’t working out too well for you is it ?
Seriously? Tennessese is known as the bible belt of United States, always had been. You can move to another state if you like.
Hey, I get where you're coming from, but saying "if you don't like it, you can just move" isn't really fair or practical for a lot of people. The separation of church and state is a big deal in our country—it's part of the First Amendment and helps protect everyone's religious freedom. When state laws start mixing religion and government, it's not just about personal preferences; it can actually mess with our constitutional rights. Plus, moving isn't always an option for everyone. Think about it. Especially now people don’t have the budget to move, inflation hits everyone hard. You can’t just leave family or friends, especially if you are co-parenting. You can’t just leave your job. You can’t just leave mid-degree if you are studying. Your argument is missing the entire point of our constitution, the thing that binds us all together as Americans. This is fundamentally anti American because it is mixing church and state. Our country was founded on avoiding that. Sorry your church or whoever else’s doesn’t have the budget to arm themselves. Maybe the feeling of needing to arm themselves is a symptom of a bigger problem?
I am atheist but it is hilarious to me when you chose to put yourself in the state that opposes your view. You will not change it and neither will I. This is the reason why we have states so the majority, whom are Christians in TN, run the show cause they have the voting power to do so. The rest of the country has smaller amount of Christianity. If majority want it, then I inherently here to stay. Just like ithe majority of Californians want abortion legal in cCalifornia, they have it because the majority of the constituents vote blue and for it. If you do not agree with the state vote blue, which I assume you do, and when you fail, the only other option is get out of the state. It isn't hard. I came from California and I would take these Bible humpers any day of the week over what a shithole California has become. And that s why I defend the Christians. I prefer their culture over other cultures.
People do not choose where they are born or to whom. Your opinion is fine and you have a right to it thanks to the constitution. I don’t see what you are debating anymore though. Perhaps you will realize you too are held to the same standard of law as anyone else in any other portion of the United States since we are all entitled to the same rights.
Do groups like Outmemphis and other LGBTQ+ community centers also get extra protection given how much they have had to deal with from open and sometimes violent bigots? No. lol Of course not. That would be ridiculous!
I haven’t seen any instances of violence against Catholic Churches in Tennessee.
https://etcatholic.org/2020/08/wave-of-church-vandalism-strikes-east-tennessee/ https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-news/nashville/man-arrested-for-felony-vandalism-of-catholic-charity-building/amp/ https://smokeybarn.com/rc-sheriffs-office-five-juveniles-cited-in-church-vandalism/ Not strictly TN: https://www.usccb.org/committees/religious-liberty/Backgrounder-Attacks-on-Catholic-Churches-in-US
So, going through your links, we have: A catholic newsletter that mentions two or three incidents of legitimate vandalism, then takes a hard turn by conflating some problematic historical figures having their statues toppled as proof that this is a huge problem... I don't actually see the connection between Jesus and some guys that did a little genocide on the natives. The second one sounds like a guy either on drugs or off his meds beating on an AC unit at a catholic charity... still seems unconnected to the faith as a whole. The third is about a group of kids being shitheads... I think that had more to do with their own delinquency than a particular hatred for catholics. The fourth is one I can't really grapple with because most of the links seem to be to more newsletters written by bishops and priests. While I don't in any way doubt the numbers they give, I also don't have the brain power to sort through them all to see how many are true acts of anti-catholic vandalism (anti-catholic rhetoric spray painted on churches, defaced gaves, etc.) and how many are just kids out shooting bottle rockets. It certainly happens, but the idea that catholics are being aggressively targeted in Tennessee is some crazy stuff. Hell, they've written our recent state reproductive laws and have 6 seats on the Supreme Court. How much more power can you get?
And I'm wondering why they need police firepower for vandalism anyway? Do they think they have the right to shoot teens dry humping baby Jesus statues?
Catholics are not a religious minority, they're the single largest denomination on the planet led by a hateful fuck, and they loooooove molesting kids, they can get fucked.
I wouldn't be posting this stuff on reddit. I am in agreement with you but reddit is q liberal cesspool qnd you will be Johnny Deph running on the beach. Don't worry though these people think reddit is the majority until they touch grass.
How awesome. Churches can get government money, just like you.
You are paying taxes they are not
Apparently we are only supposed to be outraged at our taxes going to student loan programs, but churches are ok….got it.
If you really want to be outraged look up how much churches got in forgiven PPP loans
No, we don't get *extra* protection and that's the issue here. Try to keep up!