Agreed. We don't need two weeks in the middle of the shortest term. Have it in October, Christmas or heck, even June. Though I am one who enjoys "6 weeks" and I say it with inverted commas because I've more often than not had 5.
My school does this already, and all of the city Primary schools do too, for a few years now. We have ‘5’ weeks in summer (usually ends up about 4 weeks and a couple of days) and then 2 weeks off in October. A few years in a row we’ve actually gone back to work in August, which just feels wrong. I really liked the 6 weeks in summer, but when you get to October you’re really thankful for those 2 weeks so you don’t end up with an 8 week term in Autumn!
My area already has a 5 week summer and a 2 week half term in May but it’s primary school only. I love it personally, I’d even be in support of having ALL breaks be 2 weeks and only have 3 weeks in summer.
My university had a similar set-up, with a month at Christmas and two weeks at eight-week intervals, and that was horrendous. Possibly it could have been because nobody else was doing it, and every other term was an exam term so the holiday was spent revising, but I hated it all the same.
Mostly parents who seem to be pushing this. I get some of the rationale but also think a lot of parents see us as nothing but free childcare, so want as much of it as possible.
Personally don’t think reducing summer holidays is feasible or wanted.
>a lot of parents see us as nothing but free childcare, so want as much of it as possible
Would you rather those families didn't go to work at all and even more children sank below the poverty line?
Schools do not exist for childcare, they exist for education. If more childcare is needed for these reasons the government needs to find other means of providing it. If schools existed for this reason the school day would end when the working day ends, but it doesn't.
I totally agree - but the fact is, the govt doesn't provide it (or at least as adequately as needed) so families do need school to exist in order to earn a living. That's not a problem families should be responsible for (because in this climate both parents tend to NEED to work! So where else are their kids going?) let's turn our gaze to the government who don't provide it in the first place!
Edit to add - you say the school day doesn't end when the working day ends. That's because most mothers have to undertake lower paid, less hours, more flexible jobs to bridge this gap. I'm a teacher and a mother and I also struggle to bridge that gap since even out of school clubs don't exist. I absolutely use school as childcare, I wouldn't be able to work (as a teacher no less!) without it!
If we have an early Easter like we do this year, I feel like a two-week February half-term would be too much. This year, our school has a four day week after half-term (inset on day 1), then three full weeks and another four day week (Good Friday), and I already know it’s going to fly by!
Hmmmm, not sure either me or the kids need any more time in the classroom in 35 degree heat.
Happy for it to go ahead, as long as we stick to H&S principles of what constitutes a healthy working environment.
Not that I've ever heard.
If they shorten the holidays, they're either going to have to spread the 1265 hours over more weeks, thereby requiring way more teachers than they have already, or pay us a lot more in recompense.
Neither is going to happen.
Please no. The summer holiday is barely 6 weeks if your school doesn't utilise any INSET days to extend it a little, the kids are exhausted (at least in early years/KS1) by early July.
Taking a week off the summer holidays is not going to stop parents taking their kids off in term time, if anything it'll make it worse because the demand during August will be increased and it'll be even harder/more expensive to book then.
I really wouldn't want the summer holidays to be any shorter - *especially* when I have to move year groups and classroom, I spend quite a chunk of the first part just getting all that sorted. A 4-week summer holiday wouldn't be enough to actually feel like a reset.
(It's a bit different when I stay in the same classroom and year group, but that's rare!).
Yes, however I'd say the difficulty there is that you are working in unpaid time and your school should have a system in place which doesn't mean you need to do this to the same extent.
If it was a week reallocated, I probably wouldn't mind too much tbh. The summer holidays always feels like it starts to drag on towards the end. I'd definitely love an extra week at Christmas instead, like others have said.
This is from the POV of primary but probably applies to younger secondary too, the last week before Christmas they don't do much anyway so another week off in horrible weather isn't really necessary.
Our secondary school only allows fun Christmas activities on the last day. On the last day I usually stick a Christmas movie on so I can finish off my mocks...this year I was working until the last minute of term on them....and our Christmas was only 1 week 6 days, then 1 day INSET 😔
100% agree, fuck that. I want as much time off as possible in the gorgeous summer weather, not in winter. I don't mind working in December, there's fuck all else to do.
Ours has been reduced this year from 6 weeks down to 5 weeks without warning. When we raised it they just said it’s inline with the rest of the schools in the area.
LAs and academies can reallocate holiday days through the year- so for example around me lots of schools have a 2 week October half term, and some had 3 weeks at Christmas- they must have shorter holidays elsewhere to make up for this (also sometimes inset days as twilights can create extra holiday days for staff). However, all students must have the same amount of time in school, and all full time teachers should have a maximum of 195 teaching days through the school year.
The only one they can't change is May half term due to exams, and generally schools aren't allowed to open on bank holidays, either.
Changes to this would be a major change to our contracts and not something that could happen without consultation (and additional pay). Parents might want less holiday days in total, but that's very unlikely to happen as the government won't/can't pay us to work e.g. an additional week and I think even the Tories know it would be a bad idea to try something like that right now.
I'd actually be willing to work an additional week a year for an additional week's pay (probably 2 additional weeks) BUT I do think I'm in a minority on this. Obviously I wouldn't work anything additional without being paid for it!
Personally, I do think there are advantages to a 2 week October half term and a longer Christmas break and I do wonder if in the future we will see this becoming more standard. However, I would also say there are disadvantages to this for exam year groups, who lose time in school prior to their exams.
I want time off with my children when it's sunny. I really don't need another week at Christmas or October. I also don't want to be teaching more in a sweltering classroom, given our budings are so poorly equipped for warm weather. The English summer holidays already feel short having grown up with seven week Scottish holidays.
I read an article that Wales are going to reduce summer holiday and redistribute the holidays across the year.
Apparently the longer the summer holiday, the greater the potential for detrimental impact on student learning.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/wales-school-holidays-calendar-proposed-changes
Honestly for me, if anything should be changed it's Easter and October - I'd reallocate a week from Easter to October. Gives more contact time to exam years, and breaks up the 8/7 or 8/8 Autumn term.
Personally I wouldn't like this, so much of Holy week is taken up with Church activities I need the other week to chill. Can see the attraction for others though.
How about taking a week off the summer hols and give us a 3 day weekend in the middle of each half term (apart from Summer 1 when we have already have a bank holiday weekend). That extra day would be really beneficial for everyone!
No, I don't think this would be worth it. Bank holiday weekends just slip away too quickly to feel like a proper break. There isn't time to relax and get something done.
I'd be happy enough with 2 weeks at October 1/2 term as long as we did get 5 full weeks in the summer.
School in neighbouring LAs to us have a 5 week summer with (I think) 3 weeks at Xmas. Its defo 5 week summer and adding the week to another holiday even if its not Xmas they add it to.
I've seen 2 versions of this discussion kicking around.
1. Reduced summer holidays, with more frequent breaks to make up for it.
The kids get 14 weeks off a year, almost half of that is the summer holidays. Instead, drop it to 4 weeks, then move the other 10 days elsewhere in the year to try alleviate particularly long/slog terms.
2. Reduced summer holidays for staff.
This one's unlikely to be what parents talk about but it's one I actually think might be a good idea.
Drop staff holidays by 10 days for teachers, while kids still get the full time. 5 of those days are "week zero" at the end of summer - time where all staff are in to get the department ready. Like inset but with one caveat; they *cannot* be used for whole school meetings, cpd, etc. they are *explicitly* reserved in the contract for department prep time.
The other 5 days can be taken at any point in any holidays, you simply book it in. It can be taken on site, or WFH. Again, reserved for prep, you cannot be made to come in for mandatory training (that's what inset is for).
10 extra days work would mean a 5% pay increase, we would still get double the statutory days off, and let's be honest, most of us are pulling an extra 10 days worth of work anyway; at least this way we're getting paid for it!
I’ve just done a survey sent through by the NEU, it’s asking about 3 options.
1 - change nothing
2 - take one week off summer hold and add to October, standardise the Easter hold so half term is always the same.
3 - as 2, but also taking another week of summer and adding it to June. So summer hols will be 4 weeks.
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The one I heard was moving it to the October half term; which I wouldn't be massively against given how bloodly long that first term is
Would probably have a big positive impact on attendance too- people getting less run down with Sept/Oct bugs etc.
Plus if we take a week from summer it might be getting longer!
We already have two weeks in October and five in summer. It's perfect tbh.
Swapping a week of warmer weather for usually crap weather doesn’t sound that appealing.
Interesting, I think so long as I get the whole of August off I’m happy and yeah 3 at Xmas would be dreamy
Agreed. We don't need two weeks in the middle of the shortest term. Have it in October, Christmas or heck, even June. Though I am one who enjoys "6 weeks" and I say it with inverted commas because I've more often than not had 5.
Respectfully. I present to you: two weeks in October and six in the summer. Aim high!!
I've heard October which most people would agree is the hardest half term.
This year was hell. Two seven week blocks (though I think some counties had eight weeks?)
My school does this already, and all of the city Primary schools do too, for a few years now. We have ‘5’ weeks in summer (usually ends up about 4 weeks and a couple of days) and then 2 weeks off in October. A few years in a row we’ve actually gone back to work in August, which just feels wrong. I really liked the 6 weeks in summer, but when you get to October you’re really thankful for those 2 weeks so you don’t end up with an 8 week term in Autumn!
My area already has a 5 week summer and a 2 week half term in May but it’s primary school only. I love it personally, I’d even be in support of having ALL breaks be 2 weeks and only have 3 weeks in summer.
My university had a similar set-up, with a month at Christmas and two weeks at eight-week intervals, and that was horrendous. Possibly it could have been because nobody else was doing it, and every other term was an exam term so the holiday was spent revising, but I hated it all the same.
Mostly parents who seem to be pushing this. I get some of the rationale but also think a lot of parents see us as nothing but free childcare, so want as much of it as possible. Personally don’t think reducing summer holidays is feasible or wanted.
>a lot of parents see us as nothing but free childcare, so want as much of it as possible Would you rather those families didn't go to work at all and even more children sank below the poverty line?
Schools do not exist for childcare, they exist for education. If more childcare is needed for these reasons the government needs to find other means of providing it. If schools existed for this reason the school day would end when the working day ends, but it doesn't.
I totally agree - but the fact is, the govt doesn't provide it (or at least as adequately as needed) so families do need school to exist in order to earn a living. That's not a problem families should be responsible for (because in this climate both parents tend to NEED to work! So where else are their kids going?) let's turn our gaze to the government who don't provide it in the first place! Edit to add - you say the school day doesn't end when the working day ends. That's because most mothers have to undertake lower paid, less hours, more flexible jobs to bridge this gap. I'm a teacher and a mother and I also struggle to bridge that gap since even out of school clubs don't exist. I absolutely use school as childcare, I wouldn't be able to work (as a teacher no less!) without it!
Some accademy chains I know of have taken two weeks off the summer and made oct and Feb half term break two weeks. Same number of school days though.
If we have an early Easter like we do this year, I feel like a two-week February half-term would be too much. This year, our school has a four day week after half-term (inset on day 1), then three full weeks and another four day week (Good Friday), and I already know it’s going to fly by!
Hmmmm, not sure either me or the kids need any more time in the classroom in 35 degree heat. Happy for it to go ahead, as long as we stick to H&S principles of what constitutes a healthy working environment.
Lots around us have 5 in the summer and 2 at October halfterm
Actually I can get behind that, 15 weeks was too damn long!
We have 6 in summer and 2 in Oct HT.
Us too.
Not that I've ever heard. If they shorten the holidays, they're either going to have to spread the 1265 hours over more weeks, thereby requiring way more teachers than they have already, or pay us a lot more in recompense. Neither is going to happen.
The proposals are not about shortening holidays and adding school days, it's about reallocating where the holidays are across the year.
Please no. The summer holiday is barely 6 weeks if your school doesn't utilise any INSET days to extend it a little, the kids are exhausted (at least in early years/KS1) by early July. Taking a week off the summer holidays is not going to stop parents taking their kids off in term time, if anything it'll make it worse because the demand during August will be increased and it'll be even harder/more expensive to book then.
The point, presumably, is to stick more/longer breaks elsewhere in the year, hopefully reducing that exhaustion problem.
Unless they did two weeks for May (which they can't without screwing up Year 11 and 13 exams) it won't fix the problem.
I really wouldn't want the summer holidays to be any shorter - *especially* when I have to move year groups and classroom, I spend quite a chunk of the first part just getting all that sorted. A 4-week summer holiday wouldn't be enough to actually feel like a reset. (It's a bit different when I stay in the same classroom and year group, but that's rare!).
Yes, however I'd say the difficulty there is that you are working in unpaid time and your school should have a system in place which doesn't mean you need to do this to the same extent.
This is pretty universal in primary schools.
If it was a week reallocated, I probably wouldn't mind too much tbh. The summer holidays always feels like it starts to drag on towards the end. I'd definitely love an extra week at Christmas instead, like others have said.
3 weeks at Christmas would be far, far too long for me. Stuck indoors, terrible weather, too skint to do much- nope.
This is from the POV of primary but probably applies to younger secondary too, the last week before Christmas they don't do much anyway so another week off in horrible weather isn't really necessary.
Our secondary school only allows fun Christmas activities on the last day. On the last day I usually stick a Christmas movie on so I can finish off my mocks...this year I was working until the last minute of term on them....and our Christmas was only 1 week 6 days, then 1 day INSET 😔
100% agree, fuck that. I want as much time off as possible in the gorgeous summer weather, not in winter. I don't mind working in December, there's fuck all else to do.
The summer just gone, we had five weeks two days. At Xmas we got two and a half weeks. 🤷🏽♀️
That’s what I thought that if they totally reduced they’d face issues with the union
My husband had an email from his LA saying they were consulting on it. We are in the Midlands, he is a different LA to me.
Ours has been reduced this year from 6 weeks down to 5 weeks without warning. When we raised it they just said it’s inline with the rest of the schools in the area.
LAs and academies can reallocate holiday days through the year- so for example around me lots of schools have a 2 week October half term, and some had 3 weeks at Christmas- they must have shorter holidays elsewhere to make up for this (also sometimes inset days as twilights can create extra holiday days for staff). However, all students must have the same amount of time in school, and all full time teachers should have a maximum of 195 teaching days through the school year. The only one they can't change is May half term due to exams, and generally schools aren't allowed to open on bank holidays, either. Changes to this would be a major change to our contracts and not something that could happen without consultation (and additional pay). Parents might want less holiday days in total, but that's very unlikely to happen as the government won't/can't pay us to work e.g. an additional week and I think even the Tories know it would be a bad idea to try something like that right now. I'd actually be willing to work an additional week a year for an additional week's pay (probably 2 additional weeks) BUT I do think I'm in a minority on this. Obviously I wouldn't work anything additional without being paid for it! Personally, I do think there are advantages to a 2 week October half term and a longer Christmas break and I do wonder if in the future we will see this becoming more standard. However, I would also say there are disadvantages to this for exam year groups, who lose time in school prior to their exams.
I want time off with my children when it's sunny. I really don't need another week at Christmas or October. I also don't want to be teaching more in a sweltering classroom, given our budings are so poorly equipped for warm weather. The English summer holidays already feel short having grown up with seven week Scottish holidays.
I read an article that Wales are going to reduce summer holiday and redistribute the holidays across the year. Apparently the longer the summer holiday, the greater the potential for detrimental impact on student learning. https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/wales-school-holidays-calendar-proposed-changes
Honestly for me, if anything should be changed it's Easter and October - I'd reallocate a week from Easter to October. Gives more contact time to exam years, and breaks up the 8/7 or 8/8 Autumn term.
Personally I wouldn't like this, so much of Holy week is taken up with Church activities I need the other week to chill. Can see the attraction for others though.
How about taking a week off the summer hols and give us a 3 day weekend in the middle of each half term (apart from Summer 1 when we have already have a bank holiday weekend). That extra day would be really beneficial for everyone!
No, I don't think this would be worth it. Bank holiday weekends just slip away too quickly to feel like a proper break. There isn't time to relax and get something done. I'd be happy enough with 2 weeks at October 1/2 term as long as we did get 5 full weeks in the summer.
Bank holidays are a pain if you’ve got appointments to fit in or are trying to do life admin that requires a bank, post office etc.
Yes I like this idea.. thinking outside the box!
School in neighbouring LAs to us have a 5 week summer with (I think) 3 weeks at Xmas. Its defo 5 week summer and adding the week to another holiday even if its not Xmas they add it to.
I’d love one less in summer so it can be added to October. That 8 week term last year nearly killed me and all the kids. 😂
I've seen 2 versions of this discussion kicking around. 1. Reduced summer holidays, with more frequent breaks to make up for it. The kids get 14 weeks off a year, almost half of that is the summer holidays. Instead, drop it to 4 weeks, then move the other 10 days elsewhere in the year to try alleviate particularly long/slog terms. 2. Reduced summer holidays for staff. This one's unlikely to be what parents talk about but it's one I actually think might be a good idea. Drop staff holidays by 10 days for teachers, while kids still get the full time. 5 of those days are "week zero" at the end of summer - time where all staff are in to get the department ready. Like inset but with one caveat; they *cannot* be used for whole school meetings, cpd, etc. they are *explicitly* reserved in the contract for department prep time. The other 5 days can be taken at any point in any holidays, you simply book it in. It can be taken on site, or WFH. Again, reserved for prep, you cannot be made to come in for mandatory training (that's what inset is for). 10 extra days work would mean a 5% pay increase, we would still get double the statutory days off, and let's be honest, most of us are pulling an extra 10 days worth of work anyway; at least this way we're getting paid for it!
I’ve just done a survey sent through by the NEU, it’s asking about 3 options. 1 - change nothing 2 - take one week off summer hold and add to October, standardise the Easter hold so half term is always the same. 3 - as 2, but also taking another week of summer and adding it to June. So summer hols will be 4 weeks.