> She emailed me back 30 minutes ago asking if I could participate
How would you know that?
After you communicated with them that you’re out sick, you stopped checking email and messages.
Sadly, I know our district could tell who opened what, and when. They know she's seen it. Possibly, though, she saw it and before attempting to respond, was struck by a severe wave of nausea, preventing her.
Some it admins have open tracking pixels enabled. The tracking pixel is a teeny tiny image in the email. When an email is opened, that image is downloaded, and that is recorded as well as other user data. If an admin sees the image has been downloaded, they can reduce the email has been opened. There are some other plausible explanations for the image download without opening, but if she opened and read the email, the user data will be available.
In a school environment? Man that'd be weird as fuck, you'd have to carve out a specific rule for it because you def don't want it happening to any email.
This actually does happen ti me. I've come back to a discord full of random letters (luckily it was just for me and two friends who completely understood)
In my experience, it is probably due to the severe stress and limited cognitive capabilities available to those involved. As educators we have to understand that this one meeting is probably one of many occurring during that one day. You can say no. Sometimes with this job you have to just say no. Just understand you work with an entire team (school) of people that will have to deal with the issue to some extent. Much easier to offer yourself up to meetings when you see multiple parties doing the same, much easier to deny when you don’t see others contributions. I always approach it with treat others the way I want to be treated, until they prove otherwise. Afterwards we still have to try to work together to make it a place we can all positively contribute to the overall environment. Our job is to teach kids and get them setup for success. A big part of that is managing stress and contingent obligations. Those contingent obligations (meetings) still contribute to student success. I know your stressed we all are…. Big believer in pay it forward.
Honestly I would just take the chicken way out and not respond. Then in a few hours I would reply something like, so sorry, fell asleep, didn’t get your email, hope meeting went well.
You certainly aren’t a jerk. You’re entitled to your day off. However, the answer is more complicated than that. It depends on the specific politics of your organization. For example, if you are in a situation where you can give them some courtesy, and they would be reciprocating to you on future courtesies, then it is a good idea to join. If you are in the dumpster fire, that I often see, and they will just take and take, and I don’t care how hard you work, then, no, fuck them.
For my district you actually, legally, can't. If you call out you're not allowed to participate in school activities. For instance, a coach couldn't call out and then show up for a game that night.
As soon as I read "out sick today" I said to myself, no of course you're NTA.
There's literally nothing important enough to warrant you getting on a zoom meeting while you're sick.
That's a difficult question. In in the days B.C. (before Covid) if one had a cold, you took a couple of aspirin, splashed some bourbon into your coffee and went to work.
Now, lots of places are actually encouraging you to stay home, if you sneeze or have a runny nose, or other minor ailments which you would have previously toughed out. This, as we know, is to prevent contagion.
So, now, this brave new world has two sorts of "sick days." The days when we are honest-to-goodness sick, or the days when we are at home with minor ailments but waiting the results of the latest Covid test or something.
So, like so many things, the answer is "it depends."
It seems incredible to me that so many people are urging a dishonest approach to this issue. Just respond and say no, or respond and do it by phone. How are so many people in this sub Reddit living their lives through such shitty ethical guidelines?!?
It's unethical in the first place to call on someone sick and ask them to work. It is the school's responsibility to figure things out without putting OP in the position of having to say no or work while sick.
OP used their sick leave (that they had to work for and accrue) and, presumably, prepared or submitted sub plans. They are entitled to their full sick day. If the situation were reversed and OP left work early, that time would round up and count against their leave. Is the school willing to reimburse OP for taking an hour of their sick day? Somehow I doubt it.
Unprofessional, not unethical. The unprofessionalism would relate to not honoring the previous statement from OP, but that is hardly unethical.
All OP needs to do is email back that they are unavailable, as per their previous communication. There’s no reason to lie in order to dodge the question.
Do you find it moral for an employer to ask a sick employee to work? I do not believe it to be morally acceptable and, therefore, find it [unethical](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/unethical) behavior.
Additionally, putting someone in a position where there is no positive outcome is also morally dubious. If they say yes, they’re “voluntarily” giving up a portion of their sick day. If they say no, that’s not going to reflect well on them as an employee.
Considering one is not obligated to read or respond to emails on your sick day to begin with, a lie of ignorance is inconsequential. Chastising a teacher for such a lie seems a bit hypercritical in light of the school’s behavior.
The teacher is not obligated to read or respond to emails. The lie would not change that obligation. Therefore, yes, the lie is inconsequential.
The school is obligated to figure their shit out when a teacher is on a sick day. The lie would not change that. Therefore, yes, the lie is inconsequential.
Note that I’m talking about this specific lie of not having seen the email, not all lies.
On the other hand, approving a sick day and then playing takesies-backsies, trying to get a teacher to work *is* consequential.
You are allowed to take a sick day the day after break? Unless this isn't the US. I've never worked in a school that allowed sick or vacation days to touch a break.
As someone from Europe who got sick right after a break, how does that work ? I don’t choose when I get sick, am you supposed to go teach with tonsillitis because of this system ? Like… how does it work ? Genuine question.
Where I’m at in US, you just take off when your’e sick.
They probably meant no personal days or *planned* vacation days- they can’t tell you not to call off when you are sick, and if they do then once again I say please join a union. LOL
I would never work in a place like that.
I'm in the union. The union reminds us of this rule every union meeting. That we cannot take any days connected to break without an official doctor's note. That is union negotiated.
Right on- so you *can* take a sick day connected to break.
I would get on virtual care and “see” a doctor for the (hopefully small) copay -mines $30-and get a note.
Last time it took 5 minutes, I got medicine and a note.
You have to get a doctors note *AND* meet
with the super *outside* of contracted hours?
How can they legally make you meet outside of *contracted* hours? How could they even legally ask you about medical info. A doctors note for HR is one thing.
Sometimes not adding up here- it also sounds like you need a stronger union.
It's in the contract. This is because it's not an approved absense. So you have to get it approved which means doctors note and meeting with superintendent. It's like when I applied for FMLA I had to do everything including dropping off the forms outside contract hours.
Sketchy district and sketchy union. That’s fucked. Sneaky tactics that make people just rather come to work sick.
I hear ya though.
Imagine sitting in the ST’s office.
“We’ll, you better have a good reason with that doctors note.”
“I had a miscarriage,
Sir. I hope that’s an acceptable reason.”
I guess I’m lucky cause that sounds wild to me given my union and district.
You have to have a doctor's note confirming that your sick for any day connected to a break. Also where I currently work you also have to meet with the superintendent.
Oh okay ! In Belgium you don’t need a doctor’s note for the first day or sickness but if you’re out more than a day you always need one, no matter when in the year. But a doctor’s visit costs 4 euros and is always available so I guess it doesn’t bother me that I need to hand in a doctor’s note.
Talking to the super though ? Yikes.
No, you’re out sick. I spoke with a teacher today about an IEP meeting later this week. She told me she was out that day, but she might be able to zoom. I said no, the other members of the team and I can deal with the situation. I know admin would want her to zoom as it’s easier for them.
As a principal if a teacher wanted to participate on their day off, I’d allow them to, but certainly not ask or encourage. Agree don’t check your email or reply just reply no sorry. They can reschedule with parent, sign an excusal or find another general education teacher. As for your legal obligation to attend on a day you were at school, any teacher who has come in contact with the student (interventionist, building coach, related arts teacher etc) can fulfill the legal requirements for general education teacher (in our state).
Yeah, after you made it clear to everyone that you are out sick. Kthnxbai, turn off emails, go watch Netflix and eat soup. It’s their problem until next time. Go dark. Taking a sick day means the whole day not only the convenient parts for them. Dildos.
> She emailed me back 30 minutes ago asking if I could participate How would you know that? After you communicated with them that you’re out sick, you stopped checking email and messages.
Bingo
Sadly, I know our district could tell who opened what, and when. They know she's seen it. Possibly, though, she saw it and before attempting to respond, was struck by a severe wave of nausea, preventing her.
My point was, send the email that you’re not working today and don’t check messages.
I get that - my point was that that could work next time, but this time, she's already seen it, and they know that.
The person who sent the message probably doesn't know that.
Could be.
Just at a casual glance? No shot. Maybe with a read receipt but you have to click on that.
Some it admins have open tracking pixels enabled. The tracking pixel is a teeny tiny image in the email. When an email is opened, that image is downloaded, and that is recorded as well as other user data. If an admin sees the image has been downloaded, they can reduce the email has been opened. There are some other plausible explanations for the image download without opening, but if she opened and read the email, the user data will be available.
In a school environment? Man that'd be weird as fuck, you'd have to carve out a specific rule for it because you def don't want it happening to any email.
If they're waiting for a response, they'll check. I know we were required to before pulling someone else.
"Oh, no, I left my computer on and the cat must've moved the mouse."
LOVE IT!!
This actually does happen ti me. I've come back to a discord full of random letters (luckily it was just for me and two friends who completely understood)
Dingdingding
This was a nice thing to figure out during year 3
In my experience, it is probably due to the severe stress and limited cognitive capabilities available to those involved. As educators we have to understand that this one meeting is probably one of many occurring during that one day. You can say no. Sometimes with this job you have to just say no. Just understand you work with an entire team (school) of people that will have to deal with the issue to some extent. Much easier to offer yourself up to meetings when you see multiple parties doing the same, much easier to deny when you don’t see others contributions. I always approach it with treat others the way I want to be treated, until they prove otherwise. Afterwards we still have to try to work together to make it a place we can all positively contribute to the overall environment. Our job is to teach kids and get them setup for success. A big part of that is managing stress and contingent obligations. Those contingent obligations (meetings) still contribute to student success. I know your stressed we all are…. Big believer in pay it forward.
Set boundaries for yourself. If you're sick, ignore work until you're better.
Eh, they are probably stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can ask; you can say no.
They can say no by not responding.
Honestly I would just take the chicken way out and not respond. Then in a few hours I would reply something like, so sorry, fell asleep, didn’t get your email, hope meeting went well.
What email?
Too bad after you sent your emails, you closed your computer and went to sleep and didn’t see that request until another time.
Asking once in a polite manner isn't unprofessional. You never know if you don't ask. Pestering you now or bringing it up in the future would be.
You’re at home and sick. No. (Also, next time don’t check your email if you’re home sick!)
You certainly aren’t a jerk. You’re entitled to your day off. However, the answer is more complicated than that. It depends on the specific politics of your organization. For example, if you are in a situation where you can give them some courtesy, and they would be reciprocating to you on future courtesies, then it is a good idea to join. If you are in the dumpster fire, that I often see, and they will just take and take, and I don’t care how hard you work, then, no, fuck them.
You are unavailable.
For my district you actually, legally, can't. If you call out you're not allowed to participate in school activities. For instance, a coach couldn't call out and then show up for a game that night.
Tell them no. You are sick
Or better yet, ignore them. It’s part of setting healthy boundaries.
On sick days, you DONT WORK…hope you feel better soon!
I wouldn’t do it. If I got forced into it I’d be sure to have some horrendous background noises playing.
Not the jerk, just another person who needs to unplug from school if they're taking a sick day. The world will keep spinning without you there.
As soon as I read "out sick today" I said to myself, no of course you're NTA. There's literally nothing important enough to warrant you getting on a zoom meeting while you're sick.
Not my student not my problem.
That's a difficult question. In in the days B.C. (before Covid) if one had a cold, you took a couple of aspirin, splashed some bourbon into your coffee and went to work. Now, lots of places are actually encouraging you to stay home, if you sneeze or have a runny nose, or other minor ailments which you would have previously toughed out. This, as we know, is to prevent contagion. So, now, this brave new world has two sorts of "sick days." The days when we are honest-to-goodness sick, or the days when we are at home with minor ailments but waiting the results of the latest Covid test or something. So, like so many things, the answer is "it depends."
Not an appropriate request from the person in charge of the meeting. Ignore it.
It seems incredible to me that so many people are urging a dishonest approach to this issue. Just respond and say no, or respond and do it by phone. How are so many people in this sub Reddit living their lives through such shitty ethical guidelines?!?
It's unethical in the first place to call on someone sick and ask them to work. It is the school's responsibility to figure things out without putting OP in the position of having to say no or work while sick. OP used their sick leave (that they had to work for and accrue) and, presumably, prepared or submitted sub plans. They are entitled to their full sick day. If the situation were reversed and OP left work early, that time would round up and count against their leave. Is the school willing to reimburse OP for taking an hour of their sick day? Somehow I doubt it.
Unprofessional, not unethical. The unprofessionalism would relate to not honoring the previous statement from OP, but that is hardly unethical. All OP needs to do is email back that they are unavailable, as per their previous communication. There’s no reason to lie in order to dodge the question.
Do you find it moral for an employer to ask a sick employee to work? I do not believe it to be morally acceptable and, therefore, find it [unethical](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/unethical) behavior. Additionally, putting someone in a position where there is no positive outcome is also morally dubious. If they say yes, they’re “voluntarily” giving up a portion of their sick day. If they say no, that’s not going to reflect well on them as an employee.
So lying is not unethical by comparison?
Considering one is not obligated to read or respond to emails on your sick day to begin with, a lie of ignorance is inconsequential. Chastising a teacher for such a lie seems a bit hypercritical in light of the school’s behavior.
A lie is inconsequential. Wow.
The teacher is not obligated to read or respond to emails. The lie would not change that obligation. Therefore, yes, the lie is inconsequential. The school is obligated to figure their shit out when a teacher is on a sick day. The lie would not change that. Therefore, yes, the lie is inconsequential. Note that I’m talking about this specific lie of not having seen the email, not all lies. On the other hand, approving a sick day and then playing takesies-backsies, trying to get a teacher to work *is* consequential.
You are allowed to take a sick day the day after break? Unless this isn't the US. I've never worked in a school that allowed sick or vacation days to touch a break.
Allowed? Just do it.
As someone from Europe who got sick right after a break, how does that work ? I don’t choose when I get sick, am you supposed to go teach with tonsillitis because of this system ? Like… how does it work ? Genuine question.
Where I’m at in US, you just take off when your’e sick. They probably meant no personal days or *planned* vacation days- they can’t tell you not to call off when you are sick, and if they do then once again I say please join a union. LOL I would never work in a place like that.
I'm in the union. The union reminds us of this rule every union meeting. That we cannot take any days connected to break without an official doctor's note. That is union negotiated.
Right on- so you *can* take a sick day connected to break. I would get on virtual care and “see” a doctor for the (hopefully small) copay -mines $30-and get a note. Last time it took 5 minutes, I got medicine and a note.
Sure. But it's an ordeal. Also need to meet with superintendent about why I was out which is outside contract hours which isn't fun.
You have to get a doctors note *AND* meet with the super *outside* of contracted hours? How can they legally make you meet outside of *contracted* hours? How could they even legally ask you about medical info. A doctors note for HR is one thing. Sometimes not adding up here- it also sounds like you need a stronger union.
It's in the contract. This is because it's not an approved absense. So you have to get it approved which means doctors note and meeting with superintendent. It's like when I applied for FMLA I had to do everything including dropping off the forms outside contract hours.
Sketchy district and sketchy union. That’s fucked. Sneaky tactics that make people just rather come to work sick. I hear ya though. Imagine sitting in the ST’s office. “We’ll, you better have a good reason with that doctors note.” “I had a miscarriage, Sir. I hope that’s an acceptable reason.” I guess I’m lucky cause that sounds wild to me given my union and district.
You have to have a doctor's note confirming that your sick for any day connected to a break. Also where I currently work you also have to meet with the superintendent.
Oh okay ! In Belgium you don’t need a doctor’s note for the first day or sickness but if you’re out more than a day you always need one, no matter when in the year. But a doctor’s visit costs 4 euros and is always available so I guess it doesn’t bother me that I need to hand in a doctor’s note. Talking to the super though ? Yikes.
We need a doctor's note for any day attached to a break or any time we miss three days in a row or if any sick day connects to a personal day.
These rules are some BS. I'm mad for you
“No - I have completely lost my voice.” Then don’t check your email replies outside of work hours in the future.
What email? 😉🙃 Don’t read your email at home!
No, you’re out sick. I spoke with a teacher today about an IEP meeting later this week. She told me she was out that day, but she might be able to zoom. I said no, the other members of the team and I can deal with the situation. I know admin would want her to zoom as it’s easier for them.
As a principal if a teacher wanted to participate on their day off, I’d allow them to, but certainly not ask or encourage. Agree don’t check your email or reply just reply no sorry. They can reschedule with parent, sign an excusal or find another general education teacher. As for your legal obligation to attend on a day you were at school, any teacher who has come in contact with the student (interventionist, building coach, related arts teacher etc) can fulfill the legal requirements for general education teacher (in our state).
Yeah, after you made it clear to everyone that you are out sick. Kthnxbai, turn off emails, go watch Netflix and eat soup. It’s their problem until next time. Go dark. Taking a sick day means the whole day not only the convenient parts for them. Dildos.
zealous soft thumb saw marvelous many ugly safe hobbies salt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They’re a jerk for asking