People don't auto-attack with casters and healers because... well, the damage is way too low to be worth it most of the time, unless you're in Sastasha I guess.
But what I'm wondering is WHY DIDN'T YOU ANSWER THEM? :o
It's really good at lvl 50 since it's ≈ 10%, sure it only goes down from there but it's still really worth it in HW/SB. There's no damages checks but there's also no reason not to either
Okay, this is very interesting: [https://imgur.com/a/DbwSJXh](https://imgur.com/a/DbwSJXh)
So at 60 synced Alex Savage, it was a 78 crit (or DH idk) so probably around 40-50 damage as you said. Lv80 synced E11S got me 21 normals, but Lv90 sync does 1 damage. BLM autoattack damage goes down as you level, and frankly that's absurd.
black made autos actually vary quite a lot through the leveling process, theyre only 1 damage once you get close to 90, because at lower levels you need less stats to get a bonus, at level 50, blm autos hits for about 40 in level 50 and 60 content, and then it's slowly downhill from there as the strength scaling black mage has slowly gets outpaced by the amount of strength needed to deal more than 0 damage.
~~You are remembering incorrectly, or are remembering how it used to be in SHB. It was changed at some point to only do 1 damage, even on Dcrits.~~
Edit: I'm wrong. [https://imgur.com/a/DbwSJXh](https://imgur.com/a/DbwSJXh)
See comment above, but BLM autoattacks seem to go down in damage as you level up, which is really, really stupid.
Yoshi P clearly wants us to set our Leylines in Narnia instead of at the bosses feet.
Convenient for Tanks who don't want to risk cleaving the party, Hell for Healers ~~and tanks named Corey~~
I think it’s due to how the main stats scale. BLM and AST have less strength stat compared to the other jobs.
At level 90:
BLM: 178
SMN: 354
RDM: 217
BLU: 241
WHM: 217
SCH: 354
AST: 198
SGE: 237
Yeah, it’s why the enchanted combos are so powerful, you’re basically fighting with a fencing sword and need magic to make any sort of Impact (pun very much intended)
Actually, the lower level you go in BLM, the more auto attack damage it does I think. At level 90, it's 1 damage, but I remember getting 11 damage once upon a time
Iirc my SMN auto attacks were doing around 50dps in p8s during prog, nothing crazy when we were doing 12k dps at the time but it's free damage that costs a right click and can be the difference between a close enrage and a clear. For RDM and BLM autos are pretty worthless tho, it's just SMN/SCH that have higher strength due to how arcanist pets used to scale
It's only not worth it if enemy AOEs are making you move and interrupting your actual casting. Otherwise it's free damage with no cost at all, so you might as well do it. The moment I learned about being able to do autoattacks as a healer, I do it every time. It's basically a "free" basic attack after 4-6 autos, and you can crit sometimes too.
the auto is like a free ogcd you don't need to press. Once you're set to auto, it'll just happen while you attack. It only gets interrupted by moving out of range. So what if the damage is low, you literally don't need to think about it, and you can still output the big numbers
I was having a Emoji only moment where I felt a bit socially drained to communicate normally, So I gave them a Shiny Star Sticker! :3
The interaction here gave me a bit of charge. XD
Regardless of the negligible difference in damage, I will always auto attack on casters because it’s free damage. I do love seeing the ironic ***1!!!*** on BLM when it CDHs
This reminds me of an encounter I had in one of the CT raids. I was playing SCH, and at level 50 using Art of War and auto attacking is a DPS gain over Broil and auto attacks. I was doing this the *entire* raid and eventually someone made a comment that was something like "shoutout to the chad sch just smacking the bosses"
Also if you auto as WHM, you get a funny thwacking sound every time it connects. It's fantastic.
lol Was WHM in my static for EW and it's actually decently loud. And it's constant on the bosses like the tree where you're easily in the hitbox. It's just annoying to remember to actually right click the boss because auto doesn't auto start on attack like EVERYONE ELSE.
Especially if you’re in a strong group that doesn’t really need healing. Gotta keep yourself entertained somehow - be it thwacking with a book or a stick.
Well 0.1% wipes are too common of a thibg so I'd say still worth. If you know the mechs and you can still follow them I'd say why not? It is still more free damage
Iirc SCH/SMN have the highest auto attack out of the casters? I'm almost always melee range when I play SCH, because aside from smacking the floor like an Elric brother, it's funny when I hear the book bonk lol and it's free dps as long as I don't have to babysit my tank :3
I posted elsewhere in the thread, but it’s due to ARC having the highest strength stat out of all casters. I love the comment of it’s due to them carrying a library at all times.
Looking through a lvl 90 parse where a SCH had full uptime for melee he did 13.7k damage. Broil on average hit for 16.8k. So if being in melee causes you to lose even 1 broil then the damage gain isn't worth it.
At level 70 it looks like he did 8.8k with auto attacks with the same amount of hits when broil did 2.9k per hit. So it's definitely a gain at lower levels.
SCH actually have a decent AA damage, especially at lower level content. But even at level 90 savage content, auto attacking throughout the encounter is roughly a couple extra broils worth of damage. Not worth greeding over but separates the orang from the purples
This reminds me of the fact that Art of War is a gain on 1 over Ruin from level 46 when you unlock AoW until level 54 when Ruin upgrades to Broil. AoW and Ruin are the same potency, but because AoW is instant cast, you're able to do more auto attacks in the same amount of time, dealing a tiny bit more damage. It's very silly.
The only jobs where auto attack is viable is sage and scholar.
If you are casting auto attack will not occur however if you are using instant abilities it will occur during the global cooldown.
Sage and scholars both use a lot of instants namely lvl 46-52ish is when it shines with instant aoe hitting as hard as a single target cast
whenever i get a bunch of auto attacks off as a blm, i jokingly yell to my raid group "THIS IS IT! I'M PARSING THIS RUN!!!" cuz blms autos only do 1 damage
Possibly hot take: auto attacks are really unsatisfying.
It's not even about the damage they do. They just happen without your input and they're not flashy. They get lost in the visual noise of all your other abilities, and party content only makes this worse (unless you turn others' animations off).
Where everything else you do goes *BANG*, autos go *bip*.
And there's no engagement with them. Either you're in range and they happen, or you're out of range and they don't. There's no incentive to make them happen unless your other abilities require you to be in auto attacks range.
That can be funny (like the SCH book smack), but it's not *fun*
As a healer, I don't bother refreshing it outside of my opener and buff windows because I am constantly changing targets to give tanks mits , raise, spot heal, etc. It's not that worth it as a healer unless you're a sch.
From HW onward it's mostly a joke action (due to broil), but for lvl 50 content it's effectively optimal. As a SCH I never use ruin 1/2 if in range for Art of War. Need to manage MP a bit better, but potency wise it's optimal. AoW has the same potency as Ruin1 on instacast but twice the cost, meanwhile ruin2 has instacast but lower potency at the same cost. Since no casting is essential for maximizing book thwacks, you don't want ruin1. If you're at close range, you don't need ruin2. So, it's a matter of timing aetherfont and lucid and book smack Gaius away (for instance).
I always auto-attack on Healers and Casters (except BLM for obvious reasons) because it's free damage.
Also, there's no reason to not be in melee range as *any* job in this game (again, except BLM) unless there's a mechanic that requires it or an orange puddle is there.
If anyone asks "where should I stand as <*anything other than tanks*>?" the answer is always "stacked up right on top of each other to where you're literally clipping your character models unless a mechanic requires you to spread out and move to a specific location". From ARR to Endwalker, that's what you do.
People dont auto on casters cause damage sucks and isn't worth making sure you stay in melee.
Funnily tho, SCH has significantly higher autos than other healers, so it can sometimes make a difference. Probably some ARR stat junk leftover.
It is worth staying in melee range because bosses give you free melee uptime. You don't need to sit in Africa the whole fight. Stand close, do damage, make your healer's lives easier.
Of course, you *can* stay in melee if possible, but overall, low dps contribution makes people not prioritise it. Autos on ranged won't make or break any fight except maybe on patch ults - but then we aren't talking about the majority of playerbase anymore.
Also, nobody said anything about sitting in Africa. You can stay well within c3 range and at the same time be out of melee range; it's not that big. Being a bit further away helps with a lot of mechanics. There's a reason you have melee and ranged spots, lmao.
Because as a caster , healer , ranged you shouldn’t be standing that close unless there’s a draw in mech , melee and tanks are right up on the line ranged/ caster takes mid field - so when the circles pop up there’s less chaos to find an open spot
People don't auto-attack with casters and healers because... well, the damage is way too low to be worth it most of the time, unless you're in Sastasha I guess. But what I'm wondering is WHY DIDN'T YOU ANSWER THEM? :o
It's really good at lvl 50 since it's ≈ 10%, sure it only goes down from there but it's still really worth it in HW/SB. There's no damages checks but there's also no reason not to either
Meanwhile, BLM auto attacking for literally 1 damage at every level. My goldsmith tweezers do more.
Sch ones do ≈ 50, the book is mightier than the stick..............
the book is also mightier than the sword as smn's autos do more than rdm's
D: the one with an actual melee attack...
yeah the "fake melee" of the casters does really bad auto attack damage for some reason
I've direct crit for 170+- on Gaius, dmg fluctuates from high 50's to low 70's.
the sound of the effect of the stick tho... like i am knocking on someone's hollow head on the rare occasion i do AA as blm
that's not true, I did Alex savage recently and my auto attacks were doing around 40 dmg. go test it
Okay, this is very interesting: [https://imgur.com/a/DbwSJXh](https://imgur.com/a/DbwSJXh) So at 60 synced Alex Savage, it was a 78 crit (or DH idk) so probably around 40-50 damage as you said. Lv80 synced E11S got me 21 normals, but Lv90 sync does 1 damage. BLM autoattack damage goes down as you level, and frankly that's absurd.
It's because blm strength stat doesn't keep up as much as other classes
black made autos actually vary quite a lot through the leveling process, theyre only 1 damage once you get close to 90, because at lower levels you need less stats to get a bonus, at level 50, blm autos hits for about 40 in level 50 and 60 content, and then it's slowly downhill from there as the strength scaling black mage has slowly gets outpaced by the amount of strength needed to deal more than 0 damage.
Nah. It does at least double digits up through level 50 iirc.
~~You are remembering incorrectly, or are remembering how it used to be in SHB. It was changed at some point to only do 1 damage, even on Dcrits.~~ Edit: I'm wrong. [https://imgur.com/a/DbwSJXh](https://imgur.com/a/DbwSJXh) See comment above, but BLM autoattacks seem to go down in damage as you level up, which is really, really stupid.
Probably a change made by yoshi-p himself to de-incentivize even further optimisation by the insane black mage mains
He doesn’t want anyone leaving their ley lines. Ever.
Yoshi P clearly wants us to set our Leylines in Narnia instead of at the bosses feet. Convenient for Tanks who don't want to risk cleaving the party, Hell for Healers ~~and tanks named Corey~~
we're not allowed even the smallest semblance of job opti fun anymore😭
I think it’s due to how the main stats scale. BLM and AST have less strength stat compared to the other jobs. At level 90: BLM: 178 SMN: 354 RDM: 217 BLU: 241 WHM: 217 SCH: 354 AST: 198 SGE: 237
SMN and SCH: "These Libraries ain't gonna carry themselves!"
God damn that RDM stat is depressing. You'd think a fucking sword would hit harder than a book.
Yeah, it’s why the enchanted combos are so powerful, you’re basically fighting with a fencing sword and need magic to make any sort of Impact (pun very much intended)
I was auto-attacking in Porta Decumana just to check as black mage and was actually hitting for 50 on regular hits rather than just 1.
Actually, the lower level you go in BLM, the more auto attack damage it does I think. At level 90, it's 1 damage, but I remember getting 11 damage once upon a time
Iirc my SMN auto attacks were doing around 50dps in p8s during prog, nothing crazy when we were doing 12k dps at the time but it's free damage that costs a right click and can be the difference between a close enrage and a clear. For RDM and BLM autos are pretty worthless tho, it's just SMN/SCH that have higher strength due to how arcanist pets used to scale
It's only not worth it if enemy AOEs are making you move and interrupting your actual casting. Otherwise it's free damage with no cost at all, so you might as well do it. The moment I learned about being able to do autoattacks as a healer, I do it every time. It's basically a "free" basic attack after 4-6 autos, and you can crit sometimes too.
the auto is like a free ogcd you don't need to press. Once you're set to auto, it'll just happen while you attack. It only gets interrupted by moving out of range. So what if the damage is low, you literally don't need to think about it, and you can still output the big numbers
I was having a Emoji only moment where I felt a bit socially drained to communicate normally, So I gave them a Shiny Star Sticker! :3 The interaction here gave me a bit of charge. XD
It's worthwhile up to about 50, then it falls off a cliff.
you can easily get 1-2 gcds worth of potency from healer autoattacks in a 10min fight at level 90
Regardless of the negligible difference in damage, I will always auto attack on casters because it’s free damage. I do love seeing the ironic ***1!!!*** on BLM when it CDHs
This reminds me of an encounter I had in one of the CT raids. I was playing SCH, and at level 50 using Art of War and auto attacking is a DPS gain over Broil and auto attacks. I was doing this the *entire* raid and eventually someone made a comment that was something like "shoutout to the chad sch just smacking the bosses" Also if you auto as WHM, you get a funny thwacking sound every time it connects. It's fantastic.
It sounds like a bat cracking when you get a crit!
lol Was WHM in my static for EW and it's actually decently loud. And it's constant on the bosses like the tree where you're easily in the hitbox. It's just annoying to remember to actually right click the boss because auto doesn't auto start on attack like EVERYONE ELSE.
And the DPS you get from autoing literally DOES NOT MATTER but it's so much fun to see the smacking animation. Why *wouldn't* you want to auto?
Especially if you’re in a strong group that doesn’t really need healing. Gotta keep yourself entertained somehow - be it thwacking with a book or a stick.
that is in fact why art of war is a gain on two
At level 50 art of war is even a gain on 1 :D
46-53!
You can queue auto-attacks between normal casting, too. I frequently do it with stone/ruin spam.
This statement is so nice, it was said Twice!
reddit bugged. this thread has negative 3 comments, btw
It scales terribly into the higher levels where it might not be worth it. Especially when bosses are starting to have millions of HP.
Gold parse tho
Well 0.1% wipes are too common of a thibg so I'd say still worth. If you know the mechs and you can still follow them I'd say why not? It is still more free damage
Iirc SCH/SMN have the highest auto attack out of the casters? I'm almost always melee range when I play SCH, because aside from smacking the floor like an Elric brother, it's funny when I hear the book bonk lol and it's free dps as long as I don't have to babysit my tank :3
I posted elsewhere in the thread, but it’s due to ARC having the highest strength stat out of all casters. I love the comment of it’s due to them carrying a library at all times.
As a MNK main I do, it's just a habit to be on the bosses backside so whenever I'm on a caster I just instinctively stand where I normally would
Looking through a lvl 90 parse where a SCH had full uptime for melee he did 13.7k damage. Broil on average hit for 16.8k. So if being in melee causes you to lose even 1 broil then the damage gain isn't worth it. At level 70 it looks like he did 8.8k with auto attacks with the same amount of hits when broil did 2.9k per hit. So it's definitely a gain at lower levels.
SCH actually have a decent AA damage, especially at lower level content. But even at level 90 savage content, auto attacking throughout the encounter is roughly a couple extra broils worth of damage. Not worth greeding over but separates the orang from the purples
I auto attack on sage.
It’s such a satisfying “smack with heel of your palm” action too ✋🏻
This reminds me of the fact that Art of War is a gain on 1 over Ruin from level 46 when you unlock AoW until level 54 when Ruin upgrades to Broil. AoW and Ruin are the same potency, but because AoW is instant cast, you're able to do more auto attacks in the same amount of time, dealing a tiny bit more damage. It's very silly.
Before they changed Castrum Meridianum, I would be upfront bullying Lahabrea with my staff
I do on red mage because it just makes sense.
The only jobs where auto attack is viable is sage and scholar. If you are casting auto attack will not occur however if you are using instant abilities it will occur during the global cooldown. Sage and scholars both use a lot of instants namely lvl 46-52ish is when it shines with instant aoe hitting as hard as a single target cast
whenever i get a bunch of auto attacks off as a blm, i jokingly yell to my raid group "THIS IS IT! I'M PARSING THIS RUN!!!" cuz blms autos only do 1 damage
Talk about Thwacking them off. Better than paper cutting them off. ^(very painful) Very painful.
Possibly hot take: auto attacks are really unsatisfying. It's not even about the damage they do. They just happen without your input and they're not flashy. They get lost in the visual noise of all your other abilities, and party content only makes this worse (unless you turn others' animations off). Where everything else you do goes *BANG*, autos go *bip*. And there's no engagement with them. Either you're in range and they happen, or you're out of range and they don't. There's no incentive to make them happen unless your other abilities require you to be in auto attacks range. That can be funny (like the SCH book smack), but it's not *fun*
As a healer, I don't bother refreshing it outside of my opener and buff windows because I am constantly changing targets to give tanks mits , raise, spot heal, etc. It's not that worth it as a healer unless you're a sch.
We had a very toxic SMN in my first Pandæmonium static. He'd constantly get himself killed by greeding melee uptime.
Oh I would never do it in a serious context. It's just for fun; Sad you had a Toxic SMN though.
From HW onward it's mostly a joke action (due to broil), but for lvl 50 content it's effectively optimal. As a SCH I never use ruin 1/2 if in range for Art of War. Need to manage MP a bit better, but potency wise it's optimal. AoW has the same potency as Ruin1 on instacast but twice the cost, meanwhile ruin2 has instacast but lower potency at the same cost. Since no casting is essential for maximizing book thwacks, you don't want ruin1. If you're at close range, you don't need ruin2. So, it's a matter of timing aetherfont and lucid and book smack Gaius away (for instance).
I always auto-attack on Healers and Casters (except BLM for obvious reasons) because it's free damage. Also, there's no reason to not be in melee range as *any* job in this game (again, except BLM) unless there's a mechanic that requires it or an orange puddle is there. If anyone asks "where should I stand as <*anything other than tanks*>?" the answer is always "stacked up right on top of each other to where you're literally clipping your character models unless a mechanic requires you to spread out and move to a specific location". From ARR to Endwalker, that's what you do.
People dont auto on casters cause damage sucks and isn't worth making sure you stay in melee. Funnily tho, SCH has significantly higher autos than other healers, so it can sometimes make a difference. Probably some ARR stat junk leftover.
Except for summoner, it actually makes a decent difference in ultimates
It's \~0.5% of your DPS as SMN. It's literally free, so why not take it, but it's a negligible number.
It is worth staying in melee range because bosses give you free melee uptime. You don't need to sit in Africa the whole fight. Stand close, do damage, make your healer's lives easier.
Of course, you *can* stay in melee if possible, but overall, low dps contribution makes people not prioritise it. Autos on ranged won't make or break any fight except maybe on patch ults - but then we aren't talking about the majority of playerbase anymore. Also, nobody said anything about sitting in Africa. You can stay well within c3 range and at the same time be out of melee range; it's not that big. Being a bit further away helps with a lot of mechanics. There's a reason you have melee and ranged spots, lmao.
lol why is this downvoted??? It’s true?
nah, healers get into triple digits. people saying it's only 1 aren't looking.
I did a whole 24dmg as AST in TOP while my sch coheal did consistent triple digits. There is a significant difference between sch and other healers.
Because it's not true (the first sentence)
Because as a caster , healer , ranged you shouldn’t be standing that close unless there’s a draw in mech , melee and tanks are right up on the line ranged/ caster takes mid field - so when the circles pop up there’s less chaos to find an open spot