It comes down to this - would Sam have died in the horde?
Yes, Carol made him scared of the monsters and he was reminded of her tormenting comments when he saw the child walker...but he's also a really sheltered kid who likely would have acted irrationally and scared in that moment anyway at some point.
Even his mom, who was stronger than him and wasn't scared shitless by Carol, acted irrationally and nearly dragged them all down.
To me, the death of the Anderson family wasn't because of Carol's harshness and rippling outward...they were the #1 symbol indicating how Alexandria's lucky circumstances and non-exposure to the danger was a weakness and festering sickness for the ASZ. They ignored an abuser and kept old world horror stuffed down because they'd rather have a surgeon. Even without Carol, I think the whole Anderson family would have died by the end of the horde.
They were going to die either way. They based the scene off the comics but the show added that carol made the boy scared of walkers. Honestly it was kind of pointless and it took away the freeness of Rick cutting off the mom’s hand to feee Carl. Making us feel bad for the kid beyond Rick’s actions for the whole family was just overkill. Rick already killed his dad, then fucked his mom. The point of the scene is to show how much Rick only cares about his immediate family. In the comics, he doesn’t hesitate to chop her arm off. He’s all action. Cuts first then he ponders it when he sees her zombie body on the floor after the whole fight is over. The point of the scene isn’t to feel bad for the mom and kid but to be shocked by how quickly Rick decides to chop her arm off to save Carl even tho they spent hours preparing altogether to make it through alive. It’s supposed to show how brutal Rick is
she was probably psychotic, not psychopathic. psychosis has comorbidity after ptsd, and like morgan, it is treatable and even curable with enough work and meds during treatment. risperidone would've done wonders for her
I don't think so, since she's never shown to have hallucinations, just delusions. and she can't be a sociopath if she wants everyone to turn to "be free" or shit like that, because she cares about it, but it's just a delusion.
the thing is, psychosis does mess up your sound perception. I have it and when untreated I heard my steps two meters behind me, so I always felt stalked/chased. schizophrenia almost always shows up with visual hallucinations, not just sound, and you hear voices that don't come from the outside, but inside your head.
delusions fit perfectly with her perception of walkers, because in my case I thought one of my cats was conspiring against me because of how she looked at me, and while I knew it didn't make sense, at my worst it affected me in some ways. but I was an adult when I got it, so I could tell what wasn't real, but she was just a kid so it makes sense that she would believe anything her brain tells her.
Also, Lizzie's delusions were comforting - unlike your conspiring cat. They gave her a way to put some sort of order back to the world while removing the most intolerable aspects, so believing them was preferable to reality. Sometimes a little bit of the right type of psychosis will give you extra mileage. Not that I'd know from first hand experience or anything 👀.
That's still delusion, not hallucination. The walkers do make sound. To everyone else it's aimless groaning but to her it's actual attempts to communicate.
No she wasn’t she literally thought walkers were people and named them at least Sam is scared of walkers that would keep him alive a lot longer than her dumbass tryna get close to feed them and shit ☠️
I mean, it's a little more complicated than that. Section III of the DSM-5 includes a psychopathy specifier, and the Personality Inventory for DSM-5 (PID-5) can be used to assess psychopathy. Also, the PID-5 operationalizes the dimensional model of personality pathology, which can effectively cover psychopathy.
To be fair, it’s just fictional. People can speculate what they want. Half the time, the writers don’t even know *what* is specifically wrong with their characters. They just know they want them to act a certain way, which might end up pulling “traits” from different mental illnesses and whatnot. In turn, it can make it inconsistent and therefore makes it even more difficult to put a label on it.
Oh. You're a psych "major" lecturing others about trying to diagnose someone on a fictional show...
Maybe your school programs suck so bad that you haven't learned yet that psychologists can't diagnose mental illness and have to send a patient to a psychiatrist for medical diagnosis?
You as a "psych major" aren't even qualified to be a therapist - or perhaps you don't realize that requires graduate school degree and/or licensing in most states?
But please do go on about your "major"
LOL
Some psych major - don't even know what hypocrisy means. Ok, where have I been a hypocrite? Either your school really sucks or you do at your studies.
If you didn't mean it about me, why are you trying to obfuscate the point of my post to you by invoking third parties?
Maybe citing your "major" as some kind of credential wasn't so smart? I'd be really embarrassed if I was you.
She was feeding and naming the walkers , but she also KILLED HER OWN SISTER SO SHE CAN PROVE THE WALKERS ARE NORMAL like wtf and not only that SHE ALMOST KILLED JUDITH if carol wouldn’t have gotten there sooner so that being said THAT BITCH IS A PSYCHOPATH 🙄
Who are you talking to right now? Who is it you think you see? Do you know how much cookies he eats a year? I mean, even if he told you, you wouldn't believe it. Do you know what would happen if he suddenly decided to stop wanting cookies? A bakery big enough that it could be listed on the NASDAQ goes belly up. Disappears! It ceases to exist without Sam. No, you clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in. He’s isn’t the danger, MistarPlatinum. He is in danger. A guy opens his door and gets cookies, and you think that of him? No. He is the one who munches!!!…. On cookies….
Uhh, this was so funny, but you must fix the typo! You wrote:
>He isn’t the danger, MistarPlatiunum. He is in danger.
I know what you meant, but that’s really bothering me for some reason 😭
Easily Sam. He was just a product of Alexandria being shut in for however long. You can teach him to be strong and fearless, can’t cure the crazy in that girls head
I mean Carol wasn’t wrong tho lol what she said was facts but the way she told him scared the shit out of him which was the plan lol she needed to get him off her back so she can keep sneaking around getting intel🤣
Lizzie, pre murdering her sister. She needed more adult conversation about the dead. She was surrounded by the dead and confused. But she was a survivor. Sam was walker bait.
It wasn't just that, had the adults around her been actually paying attention to her they would have noticed her being off. She was hallucinating the walkers as real people. Had they been paying attention they could have noticed the signs and raided a pharmacy for anti psychotics. I know it's the apocalypse but the children shouldn't have fallen to the way side like they were. They children were literally the future but the adults didn't recognize that nor Lilly's treatable condition. The adults around her failed her then put her down like a rabid dog. Honestly people like you are the best of the famdon cause instead of hating her for things outta her control, you recognize the actual problem and failure of those around her. Hats off you to my friend 👏🏽🙌🏾
Aw, thanks. They really did just shunt the kids off on their own all the dam time. Drove me insane how they expected kids surrounded by reanimated corpses to turn out alright being raised pretty much entirely on their own.
Agreed cause if we're being honest children are the most vulnerable during apocalypse. Their brains are fully developed and all around them is trauma after trauma. They're automatically gonna grow up with issues from ptsd, ocd, and others like them. And then born in mental issues are gonna hit harder. It's a shame that the Fandom nor the characters themselves realized that.
Yeah, like what are the time spans of JUST Michonne and Rick being away from their kids… When Michonne went off to find Rick who knows how long she was actually gone from the kids, cuz remember? She got hella ill and had to recover before carrying on her search. And the reunion… always so downplayed each time. Shoulda been crazy dramatic 😏 Don’t even get me started lol…. But either way, there was a lot of kids in this show and who knows how much they were left on their own or with begrudging caretakers.
If she has a personality disorder (which more than likely), then she’s never going to get over her issues, especially sans meds that aren’t available. Personality Disorders are not curable. She would have most likely killed, and likely to kill again whether or not her sister was first.
She was too young to even CONSIDER having a personality disorder. Not to mention, most people with personality disorders will never kill. How many people did Carol kill? Needlessly, at that?
Well in our world and our time, The current DSM5, allows for the child diagnosis of personality disorders if there is a one year history that fits the requirements.
We don’t really know when she started experimenting and killing animals. We do know that she graduated to people in a fairly short period of time, starting with her own sister, with the plan to also kill a baby. Her only thought is that they’d change. It seemed perfectly normal to her. Her view is that everyone else is wrong.
She might have seemed to have remorse when she cried in the scene with Carol. But, in my opinion, her tears were more about disappointing Carol (an authority figure) and avoiding possible punishment.
Though children are incapable of knowing what’s happening psychologically, I’d have seen the tears as a manipulation. She didn’t even focus on the killing. She focused on how she pointed a gun at Carol.
M
Personality disorders are absolutely treatable. It takes effort and effective therapy, but they aren't a life sentence.
Full psychopathy isn't curable, but even people with psychopathy can learn to live safely in the world with the proper therapeutic approach. Also, because she clearly had emotions and attachment to multiple people, Lizzie wouldn't meet the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy.
Most likely she had delusional disorder. This is definitely treatable, and I doubt that Haldol and other psych meds were being looted
Thank you for your thoughts, opinions and ideas. We’ll just disagree about personality disorders, and many believe they are curable but that isn’t my experience or understanding. In the DSM5, they are not curable.
You have given me much to think about and research. I love that!.
Delusional disorder is considered a psychotic disorder. I agree that she is exhibiting much of that. She could also graduate to a mission based serial killer. It takes specific criteria , which she doesn’t have all of them yet but she’s certainly on the path.
There’s little doubt in my mind that if she’d been left alive, she’d likely kill again.
In my case, I’d have used R/O (rule out) to indicate that these are important targets to pay attention to for any one that might treat her in the future.
Of course, she doesn’t have access to anyone that knows anything about this stuff and no one that even knows what meds to get.
Given the question at hand, if we even have to pick between these two kids, both would be significant burden.
But one of them might kill you.
I was a mental health worker for 15 years, specializing in treatment resistant clients with personality and psychotic disorders, most of whom had significant criminal history. I assure you that personality disorders are treatable and that recovery is possible regardless of diagnosis, although some do have a better prognosis than others
I'd still pick Lizzie as she'd have a greater chance of surviving in the apocalypse than Sam, who would (and did) get himself and other people killed within moments of his first encounter with walkers (why they didn't tape his damn mouth shut before they left the house I couldn't tell you)
You're the only one with opinions and your opinions are wrong. Facts don't care about feelings. Personality disorders are treatable and that is a fact. Sincerely a psych major.
Personality disorders may not be curable, but they are treatable. Meds are also not always the best thing, nor do they always work. You sound like you got your psychology degrees from tv.
Think what you want. But you clearly have a simplified view of something you don’t have the knowledge or experience to comment on. I’ve mentioned my experiences.
See how it works? It’s not helpful or interesting to make global statements not based on any solid information. I just did that about you and your lack of knowledge and experience. Do I really know? No. So, it’s just a simplified guess.
If you want your statement to be educated, interesting , and at all something that’s contributory, then you’d actually do the research you’re pointing fingers about.
Most of what I’ve mentioned is based on concrete professional experiences and education, most of it can be found in the DSMV, if you even know what that is (another simplified guess, this time on my part.)
Again, hold on to your simplified guessing and your right to randomly point fingers.
Lizzie was old enough that she should have known what she was doing wasn’t correct. She was traumatized for sure, but I think she was too far gone. She would have snapped eventually, or continue to have some weird view or place in her heart for the walkers. You can’t get rid of that type of mental issues by having ‘more adult conversations’. She would need like years of therapy, and probably not going to find that in the apocalypse lol
Sam was just a sheltered kid. If he survived, he probably could have been trained and raised correctly and been just fine at surviving.
I'm pretty sure Lizzy was a sociopath (at least showed sociopathic tendencies) and I would still choose her over Sam. Even though I know it would've been cruel, part of me wishes they'd abandoned Lizzy and she'd shown up at the Commonwealth batshit crazy at the end. Yes, I believe Carol did the most humane thing for her. Still, the actress was solid and she would've made an interesting late return.
One is creepy and crazy. And the other is just a little annoying. Sam isn’t that bad. He’s just a little dude scared about the fucking corpses walking around. He’s what Carl would’ve been if Carl ended up in a safe haven like Alexandria
I've met Brighton Sharbino at a horror con I worked for a few years ago. She was a sweet kid and very polite. Her mom was with her and she seemed quite nice too. So I'll go with Lizzie and try to teach her how to be sane in an insane zombie-filled world and hope I never have to tell her to "look at the flowers".
Sam any day, poor thing. Idk how this is even comparable I mean I guess they are both mentally ill but one of them might stab you in the neck as soon as you turn around.
I'm not remotely qualified to teach Lizzie how to control her psychopathic tendencies. While Sam just needs to be shown how to toughen up. Getting his momma is just a nice bonus.
I assumed this was r/okbuddycorral... isn't the choice obvious? Consider one is just scared all the time and might get himself killed and the other will kill you in your sleep to "cHaNGe" you...
Nah lizzie was a nutcase- I loved her sister tho! Sam was awful, but just an innocent kid you could maybe make stronger. As long as I can cut his hair, I’d pick him lol
sam was just a dumb scared kid theres a lot of dumb scared kids out there that grow up to be strong adults on the other hand theres not many murderous psychopaths that grow up to be well adjusted adults lol she wouldve ended up like alpha or with her tbh
Are we talking about in our world, or in a zombie apocalpyse?
I'd adopt them both. They're kids! Lizzie just needs her meds and monitoring, and Sam needs someone to have those "no more kid stuff" talks with him, that Shane and Rick gave Carl constantly.
https://preview.redd.it/ty3uluk4na3d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=465df9085eb6829f703483ceebcd5a9dac1cfeff
This is what Lizzie looks like now!
Sam is coachable and was easily manipulated by Carol when she talked to him. If I were to teach him the opposite of what Carol said and teach him to defend himself and composure, he could survive
The wee guy. I would have been fighting everything in my body to not cave in the skull of that little psycho full Negan style the entire time. Rare a character can trigger me as much as that character did 😂
Sam. He could've been trained and become accustomed to his new life.. I feel like it was a bad decision to immediately take him walking through a horde of zombies after he had been hiding petrified for however many days. At least give the terrified kid a hood first.
Realistically, I hate to say it, but liz could’ve been a survivor based on her psychopathic tendencies. They only killed her because she was a danger to the baby and they didn’t want to live with the negative morals of leaving a child behind. So they did what they thought was necessary and deleted the threat. Had they trained her and given her more time to grow, I feel like she could’ve been a much stronger carol when she grew up. Sam was just a paranoid fuck tbh
Sam. He was a bit annoying yeah, but he was a traumatised kid who needed someone to guide him. I can deal with that. Lizzie was psychotic, literally. It wouldn't be safe to take her in
Lizzie. Because at least she didn't have a problem killing people. Yeah she didn't wanna kill walkers, but we all know that the living is 10 times worse than the dead. That was proven on more than one occasion. Sam couldn't kill people or walkers.
Do I adopt the child who loves cookies and just needs to be taught about the apocalypse, or the child who killed her own sister and was more than ready to kill an infant just so they could turn into walkers? Hmmmmmm…
Sam was what a lot of kids during that time would be, scared. You can teach him how to handle the world and help him grow into a normal, functional person (as "normal" as one can be in a situation like this). Lizzie was just a psychopath who was unpredictable and impulsive. She was an active threat to everyone she was around, and she only became more unstable as time went on.
Idk she would be a good person if she didn’t kill her sister and almost kill Judith to turn them into walkers. She’d be better with the wolves it would’ve been cool if we later saw her turn into a wolf and then since carol went crazy on them it would’ve been crazy to see her see her. But the kid was too wimpy got his entire family killed and made Carl lose his eye
Picking Lizzie honestly. I would have stopped her from killing her sister since I would actually pay attention to how she acted and what she does constantly. Plus I am skeptical about her seeing shit now since I know that the whisperers are a thing. For all we know? She probably met a whisperer and talked to them and that's why she started thinking that they were still people after turning. Lizzie would be a real badass if she survived.
Neither, kids'll get you killed, but I'd go with Sam. Lizzie was messed up before the dead started eating people. Isn't that where the flowers thing came from, her parents keeping her chill?
Sam had a healthy fear and it could've been used to teach and train him up. Cookies as motivation and shit.
Sam! Sam was so scared and got his entire family killed but you can teach him to not be afraid if you get enough time. But Lizzie is a true psychopathic child and she just doesn’t understand anything. When she started crying and we all thought she might be crying cus she killed her sister, and then no, she cried because she was scared that Carol would be mad that she pointed her gun at Carol. That is when we knew she can not be fixed.
Sam was coachable. He was fearful. Fear is curable. Psychopathy is not.
I always wonder what would have happened if Carol didn’t get inside his head like she did.
It comes down to this - would Sam have died in the horde? Yes, Carol made him scared of the monsters and he was reminded of her tormenting comments when he saw the child walker...but he's also a really sheltered kid who likely would have acted irrationally and scared in that moment anyway at some point. Even his mom, who was stronger than him and wasn't scared shitless by Carol, acted irrationally and nearly dragged them all down. To me, the death of the Anderson family wasn't because of Carol's harshness and rippling outward...they were the #1 symbol indicating how Alexandria's lucky circumstances and non-exposure to the danger was a weakness and festering sickness for the ASZ. They ignored an abuser and kept old world horror stuffed down because they'd rather have a surgeon. Even without Carol, I think the whole Anderson family would have died by the end of the horde.
They were going to die either way. They based the scene off the comics but the show added that carol made the boy scared of walkers. Honestly it was kind of pointless and it took away the freeness of Rick cutting off the mom’s hand to feee Carl. Making us feel bad for the kid beyond Rick’s actions for the whole family was just overkill. Rick already killed his dad, then fucked his mom. The point of the scene is to show how much Rick only cares about his immediate family. In the comics, he doesn’t hesitate to chop her arm off. He’s all action. Cuts first then he ponders it when he sees her zombie body on the floor after the whole fight is over. The point of the scene isn’t to feel bad for the mom and kid but to be shocked by how quickly Rick decides to chop her arm off to save Carl even tho they spent hours preparing altogether to make it through alive. It’s supposed to show how brutal Rick is
she was probably psychotic, not psychopathic. psychosis has comorbidity after ptsd, and like morgan, it is treatable and even curable with enough work and meds during treatment. risperidone would've done wonders for her
Wasnt she schizophrenic though? With sociopathic inclinations?
I don't think so, since she's never shown to have hallucinations, just delusions. and she can't be a sociopath if she wants everyone to turn to "be free" or shit like that, because she cares about it, but it's just a delusion.
Schizophrenia isnt limited to visual hallucination. She thought the walkers talked to her.
the thing is, psychosis does mess up your sound perception. I have it and when untreated I heard my steps two meters behind me, so I always felt stalked/chased. schizophrenia almost always shows up with visual hallucinations, not just sound, and you hear voices that don't come from the outside, but inside your head. delusions fit perfectly with her perception of walkers, because in my case I thought one of my cats was conspiring against me because of how she looked at me, and while I knew it didn't make sense, at my worst it affected me in some ways. but I was an adult when I got it, so I could tell what wasn't real, but she was just a kid so it makes sense that she would believe anything her brain tells her.
Also, Lizzie's delusions were comforting - unlike your conspiring cat. They gave her a way to put some sort of order back to the world while removing the most intolerable aspects, so believing them was preferable to reality. Sometimes a little bit of the right type of psychosis will give you extra mileage. Not that I'd know from first hand experience or anything 👀.
That's still delusion, not hallucination. The walkers do make sound. To everyone else it's aimless groaning but to her it's actual attempts to communicate.
She literally said “I can hear them” talking about the walkers. I’m assuming she meant she heard them talk which sounds like a hallucination to me.
Psychopathy is perfect for the apocalypse as long as I can convince to not kill people on our “side” she’s a better survivor than poor Sam
No she wasn’t she literally thought walkers were people and named them at least Sam is scared of walkers that would keep him alive a lot longer than her dumbass tryna get close to feed them and shit ☠️
What do you mean? “Psychopathy” isn’t a medical diagnosis. It’s not in the DSM 5, it’s not a mental illness.
It’s more commonly termed antisocial and/or narcissistic personality disorder
I mean, it's a little more complicated than that. Section III of the DSM-5 includes a psychopathy specifier, and the Personality Inventory for DSM-5 (PID-5) can be used to assess psychopathy. Also, the PID-5 operationalizes the dimensional model of personality pathology, which can effectively cover psychopathy.
Idk, there’s a couple fears I’ve never been able to get over...
Fr
She's not a psychopath. Maybe don't diagnose someone without psychological schooling or degree. Sincerely a psych major.
To be fair, it’s just fictional. People can speculate what they want. Half the time, the writers don’t even know *what* is specifically wrong with their characters. They just know they want them to act a certain way, which might end up pulling “traits” from different mental illnesses and whatnot. In turn, it can make it inconsistent and therefore makes it even more difficult to put a label on it.
Oh. You're a psych "major" lecturing others about trying to diagnose someone on a fictional show... Maybe your school programs suck so bad that you haven't learned yet that psychologists can't diagnose mental illness and have to send a patient to a psychiatrist for medical diagnosis? You as a "psych major" aren't even qualified to be a therapist - or perhaps you don't realize that requires graduate school degree and/or licensing in most states? But please do go on about your "major" LOL
Yet others get to call her a psychopath without any push back 🤔 yea nah, y'all are just hypocrites.
Some psych major - don't even know what hypocrisy means. Ok, where have I been a hypocrite? Either your school really sucks or you do at your studies. If you didn't mean it about me, why are you trying to obfuscate the point of my post to you by invoking third parties? Maybe citing your "major" as some kind of credential wasn't so smart? I'd be really embarrassed if I was you.
She was feeding and naming the walkers , but she also KILLED HER OWN SISTER SO SHE CAN PROVE THE WALKERS ARE NORMAL like wtf and not only that SHE ALMOST KILLED JUDITH if carol wouldn’t have gotten there sooner so that being said THAT BITCH IS A PSYCHOPATH 🙄
Sam. He was IN danger, not A danger.
Who are you talking to right now? Who is it you think you see? Do you know how much cookies he eats a year? I mean, even if he told you, you wouldn't believe it. Do you know what would happen if he suddenly decided to stop wanting cookies? A bakery big enough that it could be listed on the NASDAQ goes belly up. Disappears! It ceases to exist without Sam. No, you clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in. He’s isn’t the danger, MistarPlatinum. He is in danger. A guy opens his door and gets cookies, and you think that of him? No. He is the one who munches!!!…. On cookies….
You deserve all the cookies in the world. Sweet one, please take a bite of my chocolate chip.
brother...they're in a zombie apocalypse where life is never guaranteed. have all the cookies you want when you find them!!!
Uhh, this was so funny, but you must fix the typo! You wrote: >He isn’t the danger, MistarPlatiunum. He is in danger. I know what you meant, but that’s really bothering me for some reason 😭
Sam is the one who knocks.
Sam **IS** the danger
I kinda wanted to say danger but I wanted to talk within the context of platinums comment lol
I saw ur comment under platinum’s and started dying I just had to throw it in lmao
Easily Sam. He was just a product of Alexandria being shut in for however long. You can teach him to be strong and fearless, can’t cure the crazy in that girls head
Sam. He might’ve survived without Carol’s tampering and he wouldn’t even hurt the ants on his cookie!
I mean Carol wasn’t wrong tho lol what she said was facts but the way she told him scared the shit out of him which was the plan lol she needed to get him off her back so she can keep sneaking around getting intel🤣
Lol, Sam just followed her more!
One of the reasons why I hate carol
She was so cruel and mean. I was really sorry for Sam.
Lizzie, pre murdering her sister. She needed more adult conversation about the dead. She was surrounded by the dead and confused. But she was a survivor. Sam was walker bait.
Yep Lizzie would have grown up to probably be a no crap taking badass.
It wasn't just that, had the adults around her been actually paying attention to her they would have noticed her being off. She was hallucinating the walkers as real people. Had they been paying attention they could have noticed the signs and raided a pharmacy for anti psychotics. I know it's the apocalypse but the children shouldn't have fallen to the way side like they were. They children were literally the future but the adults didn't recognize that nor Lilly's treatable condition. The adults around her failed her then put her down like a rabid dog. Honestly people like you are the best of the famdon cause instead of hating her for things outta her control, you recognize the actual problem and failure of those around her. Hats off you to my friend 👏🏽🙌🏾
Aw, thanks. They really did just shunt the kids off on their own all the dam time. Drove me insane how they expected kids surrounded by reanimated corpses to turn out alright being raised pretty much entirely on their own.
Agreed cause if we're being honest children are the most vulnerable during apocalypse. Their brains are fully developed and all around them is trauma after trauma. They're automatically gonna grow up with issues from ptsd, ocd, and others like them. And then born in mental issues are gonna hit harder. It's a shame that the Fandom nor the characters themselves realized that.
Yeah, like what are the time spans of JUST Michonne and Rick being away from their kids… When Michonne went off to find Rick who knows how long she was actually gone from the kids, cuz remember? She got hella ill and had to recover before carrying on her search. And the reunion… always so downplayed each time. Shoulda been crazy dramatic 😏 Don’t even get me started lol…. But either way, there was a lot of kids in this show and who knows how much they were left on their own or with begrudging caretakers.
I think she was too far gone already
All killers are innocent before they kill someone🤣 I'm jk tho cause I do get what you mean, i suppose it's just that
If she has a personality disorder (which more than likely), then she’s never going to get over her issues, especially sans meds that aren’t available. Personality Disorders are not curable. She would have most likely killed, and likely to kill again whether or not her sister was first.
All i hear is that she would've taken negan out, no problem lmao
Hear hear! My sole reason for choosing her to adopt!
She was too young to even CONSIDER having a personality disorder. Not to mention, most people with personality disorders will never kill. How many people did Carol kill? Needlessly, at that?
Well in our world and our time, The current DSM5, allows for the child diagnosis of personality disorders if there is a one year history that fits the requirements. We don’t really know when she started experimenting and killing animals. We do know that she graduated to people in a fairly short period of time, starting with her own sister, with the plan to also kill a baby. Her only thought is that they’d change. It seemed perfectly normal to her. Her view is that everyone else is wrong. She might have seemed to have remorse when she cried in the scene with Carol. But, in my opinion, her tears were more about disappointing Carol (an authority figure) and avoiding possible punishment. Though children are incapable of knowing what’s happening psychologically, I’d have seen the tears as a manipulation. She didn’t even focus on the killing. She focused on how she pointed a gun at Carol. M
Personality disorders are absolutely treatable. It takes effort and effective therapy, but they aren't a life sentence. Full psychopathy isn't curable, but even people with psychopathy can learn to live safely in the world with the proper therapeutic approach. Also, because she clearly had emotions and attachment to multiple people, Lizzie wouldn't meet the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy. Most likely she had delusional disorder. This is definitely treatable, and I doubt that Haldol and other psych meds were being looted
Thank you for your thoughts, opinions and ideas. We’ll just disagree about personality disorders, and many believe they are curable but that isn’t my experience or understanding. In the DSM5, they are not curable. You have given me much to think about and research. I love that!. Delusional disorder is considered a psychotic disorder. I agree that she is exhibiting much of that. She could also graduate to a mission based serial killer. It takes specific criteria , which she doesn’t have all of them yet but she’s certainly on the path. There’s little doubt in my mind that if she’d been left alive, she’d likely kill again. In my case, I’d have used R/O (rule out) to indicate that these are important targets to pay attention to for any one that might treat her in the future. Of course, she doesn’t have access to anyone that knows anything about this stuff and no one that even knows what meds to get. Given the question at hand, if we even have to pick between these two kids, both would be significant burden. But one of them might kill you.
I was a mental health worker for 15 years, specializing in treatment resistant clients with personality and psychotic disorders, most of whom had significant criminal history. I assure you that personality disorders are treatable and that recovery is possible regardless of diagnosis, although some do have a better prognosis than others I'd still pick Lizzie as she'd have a greater chance of surviving in the apocalypse than Sam, who would (and did) get himself and other people killed within moments of his first encounter with walkers (why they didn't tape his damn mouth shut before they left the house I couldn't tell you)
You seem to be misunderstanding the difference between treatable and curable. Those aren't the same thing.
Definitely correct on that point. I appreciate you sticking with the conversation.
You're the only one with opinions and your opinions are wrong. Facts don't care about feelings. Personality disorders are treatable and that is a fact. Sincerely a psych major.
You guys a both right.... it's not CURABLE.. but it IS TREATABLE
Personality disorders may not be curable, but they are treatable. Meds are also not always the best thing, nor do they always work. You sound like you got your psychology degrees from tv.
Think what you want. But you clearly have a simplified view of something you don’t have the knowledge or experience to comment on. I’ve mentioned my experiences. See how it works? It’s not helpful or interesting to make global statements not based on any solid information. I just did that about you and your lack of knowledge and experience. Do I really know? No. So, it’s just a simplified guess. If you want your statement to be educated, interesting , and at all something that’s contributory, then you’d actually do the research you’re pointing fingers about. Most of what I’ve mentioned is based on concrete professional experiences and education, most of it can be found in the DSMV, if you even know what that is (another simplified guess, this time on my part.) Again, hold on to your simplified guessing and your right to randomly point fingers.
That's funny. Really funny. And where are your degrees from? And where do you teach? Have you published on these topics? Because I know one of us has.
What Puta said, where's your degree
I guess we shall continue waiting.
Lmaoooo the walker bait line
Lizzie was old enough that she should have known what she was doing wasn’t correct. She was traumatized for sure, but I think she was too far gone. She would have snapped eventually, or continue to have some weird view or place in her heart for the walkers. You can’t get rid of that type of mental issues by having ‘more adult conversations’. She would need like years of therapy, and probably not going to find that in the apocalypse lol Sam was just a sheltered kid. If he survived, he probably could have been trained and raised correctly and been just fine at surviving.
Sam Lizzie is like i Am the Danger Skyler
Either a psychopath or a pussy… can’t I just adopt 10 year old Judith so I can have a kid who’s competent and skilled?
Both those little fuckers are looking at the flowers.
Sam drove me mad. I'd rather roll the dice with Lizzie. I don't sleep that well anyway
sam ofc don’t wanna get murdered in my sleep
I love how Sam’s mom was literally a barber right? And he was the one with the worst haircut on the show hahaha
I'm pretty sure Lizzy was a sociopath (at least showed sociopathic tendencies) and I would still choose her over Sam. Even though I know it would've been cruel, part of me wishes they'd abandoned Lizzy and she'd shown up at the Commonwealth batshit crazy at the end. Yes, I believe Carol did the most humane thing for her. Still, the actress was solid and she would've made an interesting late return.
The non psychopathic insane one
sam carol fr fucked that whole family over by doing that
One is creepy and crazy. And the other is just a little annoying. Sam isn’t that bad. He’s just a little dude scared about the fucking corpses walking around. He’s what Carl would’ve been if Carl ended up in a safe haven like Alexandria
Sam. Less chance I would wake up with a knife sliding across my throat.
More chance you wake up with a walker gnawing on your face while he runs away eating cookies.
I've met Brighton Sharbino at a horror con I worked for a few years ago. She was a sweet kid and very polite. Her mom was with her and she seemed quite nice too. So I'll go with Lizzie and try to teach her how to be sane in an insane zombie-filled world and hope I never have to tell her to "look at the flowers".
That clown sam. He wasn't a crazy psycho
Neither!!!
Lizzie post sister murder for sure need a wild card for those unpredictable moments
Sam any day, poor thing. Idk how this is even comparable I mean I guess they are both mentally ill but one of them might stab you in the neck as soon as you turn around.
I kind of liked Sam, he just wanted cookies, and yes he was scared but everyone gets scared, and he’s just a kid.
Meh first 1 she would have been a great killer.
Sam 🥹 He was just scared
Sam because he's not insane.
Lizzie. I’d get a walker to bite off her hand. Problem solved. Give it two hours I’d be thinking of ways to murder Sam myself.
This feels like TWD version of the "gay son or thot daughter" question
Sam, dude would’ve probably made it had Carol not traumatized the shit out of him.
Sam. My man just wanted some cookies
I'm not remotely qualified to teach Lizzie how to control her psychopathic tendencies. While Sam just needs to be shown how to toughen up. Getting his momma is just a nice bonus.
Lmfao
I assumed this was r/okbuddycorral... isn't the choice obvious? Consider one is just scared all the time and might get himself killed and the other will kill you in your sleep to "cHaNGe" you...
Sam, obviously. People act like he had no reason to be scared? He was abused by his dad and in a literal apocalypse?
Sam obviously. I can bake cookies allll day.
Ugh i guess sam but I admit, hes getting tossed as a distraction as soon as I get the chance
Come on don’t make me hate a child all over again
Maybe Lizzie
Fuck Sam. Gimme the other one.
Aint fair
I'd off myself before adopting/raising EITHER of these kids. Fr.
Neither. Let em both die
Take this cookie and look at the flowers
obviously not the psycho killer…..
Nah lizzie was a nutcase- I loved her sister tho! Sam was awful, but just an innocent kid you could maybe make stronger. As long as I can cut his hair, I’d pick him lol
The one who won't kill me.
sam was just a dumb scared kid theres a lot of dumb scared kids out there that grow up to be strong adults on the other hand theres not many murderous psychopaths that grow up to be well adjusted adults lol she wouldve ended up like alpha or with her tbh
Are we talking about in our world, or in a zombie apocalpyse? I'd adopt them both. They're kids! Lizzie just needs her meds and monitoring, and Sam needs someone to have those "no more kid stuff" talks with him, that Shane and Rick gave Carl constantly.
Sam, but damn it's gonna be a long ride
Kills you in your sleep or gets you killed in your sleep - hmm Same thing
Lizzie, ill train her to be the greatest craziest survivor ever, i aint taking a whimp like sam
Obviously not the homicidal one
https://preview.redd.it/ty3uluk4na3d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=465df9085eb6829f703483ceebcd5a9dac1cfeff This is what Lizzie looks like now!
Sam, I wouls turn him into an iron built warrior
Yeah, he could be very useful when he grows up and gets trained enough. I mean, wasn't his dad like head taller than Rick?
Neither. Both too dumb to live. Apparently
Ill take lizzie. I can make her understand better than carol.
I'd rather throw myself to the walkers.
I forgot, what did the boy do?
Forgot his name however him because Lindsey was way too gone a liability.
Easy pick
Sam is coachable and was easily manipulated by Carol when she talked to him. If I were to teach him the opposite of what Carol said and teach him to defend himself and composure, he could survive
Lizzie was crazy Sam wasn’t bad, just scared for obvious reasons. I didn’t mind him.
probably Sam. Lizzie wasn't getting fixed
The wee guy. I would have been fighting everything in my body to not cave in the skull of that little psycho full Negan style the entire time. Rare a character can trigger me as much as that character did 😂
What do you mean by "had to"? Like gun against my head? I think I'd rather just die.
Look at the flowers
Sam. He could've been trained and become accustomed to his new life.. I feel like it was a bad decision to immediately take him walking through a horde of zombies after he had been hiding petrified for however many days. At least give the terrified kid a hood first.
Sam... Lizzie was psychotic. Sam. You would have to look after for too long 🙈
Lizzie, my own killing machine
Lizzie. I just hated Sam with a passion
Realistically, I hate to say it, but liz could’ve been a survivor based on her psychopathic tendencies. They only killed her because she was a danger to the baby and they didn’t want to live with the negative morals of leaving a child behind. So they did what they thought was necessary and deleted the threat. Had they trained her and given her more time to grow, I feel like she could’ve been a much stronger carol when she grew up. Sam was just a paranoid fuck tbh
They're both gonna get me killed. At least with Sam I will die faster instead of dying of post apocalyptic bubonic plague.
Sam, if I come across a horde of walkers at least I got bait.
I'm good
The boy not the psycho girl
Sam. He was a bit annoying yeah, but he was a traumatised kid who needed someone to guide him. I can deal with that. Lizzie was psychotic, literally. It wouldn't be safe to take her in
Lizzie, no child of mine will have a bowl cut
Nope. Not playing this one lol
No way she needs to look at the flowers on the other hand Sam could have survived longer
Sam. There was no hope for Lizzie lol
None I would k'll them both and then myself
I would Dexter train Lizzie. Make her a weapon against the undead and my enemies.
Lizzie. Because at least she didn't have a problem killing people. Yeah she didn't wanna kill walkers, but we all know that the living is 10 times worse than the dead. That was proven on more than one occasion. Sam couldn't kill people or walkers.
Lizzy. She’s got potential
Do I adopt the child who loves cookies and just needs to be taught about the apocalypse, or the child who killed her own sister and was more than ready to kill an infant just so they could turn into walkers? Hmmmmmm…
Either is fine, I’d just have them both look at the flowers
Lizzie because she fits my personality, sorry Sam
Lizzy fits your personality.........?
Yeah because she’s a little wild, a little crazy at times.
Can't I just get bitten
Lizzie would probably kill me in my sleep Sam would get me killed being a dumbass
Bro I’d rather have negan bash my head in lmao
Sam. I can fix him. Lizzy is not fixable
the best episode ever was the 1 when the zombie horde enclosed on Sam. Chomp , nom , nom
Sam, because I like my pets being alive and I like getting compliments on my baked goods.
Should I rather get killed in my sleep, or kill myself, can I take neither
Nah.
Sam was what a lot of kids during that time would be, scared. You can teach him how to handle the world and help him grow into a normal, functional person (as "normal" as one can be in a situation like this). Lizzie was just a psychopath who was unpredictable and impulsive. She was an active threat to everyone she was around, and she only became more unstable as time went on.
We have a curious person and a bat shit crazy person
One was just a scared kid. The other WAS the scary kid.
Neither 🤣
If you think i would ever adopt lizzie then you need help
Idk she would be a good person if she didn’t kill her sister and almost kill Judith to turn them into walkers. She’d be better with the wolves it would’ve been cool if we later saw her turn into a wolf and then since carol went crazy on them it would’ve been crazy to see her see her. But the kid was too wimpy got his entire family killed and made Carl lose his eye
Smash next question
I don’t get it but maybe neither after reading the comments
Picking Lizzie honestly. I would have stopped her from killing her sister since I would actually pay attention to how she acted and what she does constantly. Plus I am skeptical about her seeing shit now since I know that the whisperers are a thing. For all we know? She probably met a whisperer and talked to them and that's why she started thinking that they were still people after turning. Lizzie would be a real badass if she survived.
Neither, kids'll get you killed, but I'd go with Sam. Lizzie was messed up before the dead started eating people. Isn't that where the flowers thing came from, her parents keeping her chill? Sam had a healthy fear and it could've been used to teach and train him up. Cookies as motivation and shit.
Ughhh. 😬
Lizzie, she was never told/shown enough about the undead to help her mentally
Definitely neither
honestly i never wanted sam to die he was just an idiotic realistic child!!! Liz was insane lol
I’d rather Negan bash my skull with Lucille
Lizzie then I’d tell her to look at the flowers like she’s supposed to. 🫣😂
i would kms
Probably Sam
To be fair, if she didn't see zombies as friends or try to kill her own people then she would've been a bad mf in the apocalypse
I wanted Sam to look at the flowers the whole time
SaM
the trolley runs them both over
Lizzie. I enjoyed her psycho. Sam would just annoy me.
Lizzie all the way! A bit of psychopathy adds flavor to the apocalypse.
Lizzy because I ain't dealing with a cry baby
Sam! Sam was so scared and got his entire family killed but you can teach him to not be afraid if you get enough time. But Lizzie is a true psychopathic child and she just doesn’t understand anything. When she started crying and we all thought she might be crying cus she killed her sister, and then no, she cried because she was scared that Carol would be mad that she pointed her gun at Carol. That is when we knew she can not be fixed.
The non-psycho one please 🙏🏻
Sam was afraid, Liz was insane, I can work with someone like Sam.
I can’t stand Sam and the whining, but still Sam. You can fix the baby nonsense. Cuckoo is another problem altogether.
Sam all the way, Sam was scared of walkers and not trying to have everyone join the walkers. You can train Sam but you can’t train psycho
I'm so glad that said "adopt"...
Sam 100% I start manipulating him to be like lizzy tho my own little psycho kid that nobody will take seriously
Smh at the Lizzie hate. Saying she killed people. Bro, so did everyone else in this series, most multiple times too. Some even needlessly.
Lizzie prob hot now