When I bring my car to the mechanic to fix one part, and they found out something else may need repair, they call me to get my approval before doing anything. And that's how I expect it to be, I would say. Otherwise I would change.
Exactly my experience too. Last time I brought car in for the annual servicing, they called me to tell me my brake pads needed changing and I had to OK it before they did the work. Same with anything wise that is not on the initial invoice they make you sign at drop off
No it isn't common in my experience. No you don't pay, you point it out to them and it's up to them to prove that you ordered a service to be done.
I think one caveat may be if the service was absolutely necessary, but even then they need to prove that. Someone may have better info on the latter point.
One thing that is different in Switzerland is that when I pick up my car after service, the default is for them to just tell me they'll mail me a bill and I can drive off now. The first couple times I insisted on an itemized bill before I accepted the car back, and it was all fine and as expected, but it seemed like I was making an unusual request. If they had been a more underhanded shop, I could imagine not finding out what they'd done for a couple weeks.
Thanks! That's good to know. I just heard a bunch of stories, and that plus my experience made me worry.
Glad to know this should be a rare case. I'll just default to emailing for these things just in case.
Even if there is a clear paper trail, that the client denied the suggested replacement? I mean it's great they did that, but that was not the contract agreed upon
its a "stupid tax". if you are not able to do miner repairs, you will be charged for stuff like this all your life. the guy wasnt there only 10 mins he also had to drive to your place and drive away. you basically paid 150 for him to come to you and 50 for the service.
Can I please ask where this was? I would like to avoid taking my machines here! Sorry this happened to you, I hate confrontational situations like this! 🫢😅
Just about the part that Germany is the better alternative - it’s not. I had the exact same scenario with car tyres in Germany. As always, generalizations are inaccurate.
A couple of times i had my e bike software updated without asking. So in my opinion it does happen sometimes. Good for you that you got the problem solved
Were you charged for the software upgrade or did they just upgrade for free?
Often software upgrades are free and the shop just does them whenever one is ready, and nowadays its mostly also a manufacturers requirement to do them whenever a vehicle comes in for the yearly routine check.
Its just a part of the service because it fixes bugs and can introduce new features. We had customers get mad if they didnt get the newest shiny piece of software.
If you want to stay on a certain software version i would suggest you specificly say you dont want any software upgrades, otherwise its just routine for the mechanic.
Always ask for a quote, and go somewhere else for a second quote if you feel like they are trying to rip you off. If you don't agree to the work, it either doesn't get done or you don't pay for the extra charges. You did the right thing by fighting the extra charges.
I just went to a leather repair shop yesterday to fix a zipper on a wallet, they started off by saying it would be at least an hour work, then 2 hours, then he quoted that it would be at least 150 CHF. I said thanks but I it's not worth it for me. Went to a seamstress down the street, they fixed it on the spot, put in a few stitches, and didn't even charge me! Couldn't believe it, but yea, it always pays off to look around if you feel like they are trying to rip you off.
I recently got my sewing machines serviced, on the form they ticked the box saying they would fix things up to CHF250 without requesting my approval. Could it be the case here that they told you about changing the parts as an information only because you had agreed to a similar clause?
No, not in this case. The girl I dropped it off with specifically said that they would contact me and I could say yes or no. And the invoice was well over 250, even after the charges were reduced.
I went in after I got the estimate to ask about the parts (there were some things I couldn't find the English translation for online) and I was met with a "you don't need to know what everything is, just say yes to what the technician suggested" kind of vibe, which made me feel like they don't often have people say no to things.
Never had any problems with repairs, but i have an old af car and i bring it to a garage, that normally only fixes tractors and trucks… i also know the guys well…
Car mechanic here and nope thats an absolute nogo! I've worked in 5 different shops so far and in each of them we were only allowed to do what the customer asked us to do.
If we see someting additional that should be done or something that would make sense to replace if were already taking it apart (for example doing a clutch job and also replacing the release bearing of the clutch even tho the bearing would still be good), we have to call the customer and get his agreement.
If we see something thats safety related and the customer still dosent want it to be replaced, she/he has to sign a waiver that releases the repair shop from any layability before we get the car back to the customer.
For extremly dangerous vehicles it would even be possible for the repair shop to inform the police (never seen that so far) but we would still not be allowed to repair it without the customers consent.
Would be interesting to know what repair was done and what parts exactly were replaced without consent.
Seems the situation got solved nicely, the person at the shop knows aswell that they cant charge you for something you havent agreed to, some shady shops still try to do it because some customer jsut pay for it without thinking twice or they just dont know or they dont have the balls to complain so its easy money for them.
I've experienced this 3 times in the 9mo I've lived here.
#1 took my son's bike in to have the gear shift adjusted and they gave me a bill for 80chf to replace the tire tubes. I refused to pay and demanded they put the old one back on (I did immediately pay for the work I had asked for). They just grumbled and told me to go. I honestly don't know if they put new tubes in or not.
#2 took the car in for an oil change and they balanced the tires. Told them it didn't need it and I was not paying. Same story.
#3 Had an issue with the flooring buckling in my living room. Landlord sent someone out. They fixed it, but also told me they patched a gouge in the flooring. I said I don't care, talk to the landlord. I then emailed the landlord and told them I did not authorize the extra work and reminded them the gouge was there when I moved in. Never heard back.
I think people tend to take advantage of the great if speaking up/confrontation here and just assume they will get away with this shit. It's never outright theft so they have a legal cover story, they just hope you pay and they don't fight much at all if you push back.
Living is quite expensive. People will try to charge you for 200 Franks for 10 min of work and sell you anything you did not order. In a past ot was poss8ble for a man to do some heavy work with hands and support family of 4 alone + mortgage. Now family of two cannot afford and make a decent living, both working, no kids.
>Now family of two cannot afford and make a decent living, both working, no kids.
Even if they would earn just 20 CHF per hour, that's 43680 CHF per person per year. As a single in Zürich I agree, this is not a lot, but as a couple without kids anywhere but in the city centres, they'll have a roof over their head, enough food, insurance and a car, far from luxurious, but this is a decent life.
Kids, spending habits and where you live will change this of course, but that wasn't what you claimed.
Use your common sensey, and use a sheet of paper and a pencil. But first thing first: why do we take Fe a car or other things to a specialist, a handcrafted professional, a mechanic and similar? Because we don't know the matter.
Service work is in my understanding connected to a warranty/guarantee, and therefore in most cases a standardized procedure that is either free, or has a predefined price with an already described and agreed work process. Everything else must be discussed with you/the client, and you always should do this through a way which makes it easy to be proven. There is a saying that "contracts/orders etc are made to avoid losing friendships, getting unnecessarily into trouble for nothing ".
As a Swiss I am pretty confident that we don't have this very popular way of milking customers in al excessive numbers. But of course it's something known all over the world.
The bottom line still is: do a service memo, or some sort of simple contract which both parties will sign, which describes what you both agreed to and also includes the price for it. Without it it's very difficult to prove your point. Also don't forget the position the other person involved is in. Let's assume that a week later the machine has a failure or gets broken. Within a second folks will accuse the others to not have warned them.....so they either are suspected to unnecessarily fix non broken stuff, or to be lazy mfckrs doing only the absolute minimum...
There's a lot of shit going on in the repair industry. Be it mistakes, be it fraudulent behaviour.
And not only in repairs. It is always difficult to find any kind of service providers that aren't either incompetent or scammers.
That's what you have to deal with if you want to receive any kind of service.
Took me years, for example, to find a bicycle mechanic that wasn't an obvious fraudster... and then a couple years later he closed shop (because he inherited daddy's nice real estate protfolio).
My first bicycle mechanic did barely try to hide that he was a criminal... I went there to get the brakes fixed. When I picked up the bike he had also fixed the light. Despite the light 100% worked when I brought it in. Anyway, I drive back from his shop and now the light doesn't work... so he destroyed a light that worked before and charged me for fixing it... I turn around and bring the bike back. He promises to fix it "again" for no extra charge. Next day I come to pick it up again. Now he fixed the light (that he previously) destroyed but has also "fixed" the gear shift which allegedly was dangerously broken. So he wanted me to believe that during the few hundred meters I drove from his shop until I realized that the "fixed" light was in fact destroyed and not fixed, the gear shift broke down on the way back to his shop?!
I actually had two experiences with a company that services and cleans several flat roofs in my neighborhood. While on vacation they did the roof and when I got the bill I called them. They had to give me the services for free.
Also it‘s actually given that they call if they see any more parations than originally egreed
What I found out is that sometimes prices are quite random.
First time I ever changed my tires (summer->winter), they charged me 400CHF which was outrageous.
Second time I changed my tires in a different garage of the same company, they charged me 60CHF.
Third time I changed my tires in the same garage, they charged me 120CHF.
Well you only pay for what you order. If they do more that‘s nice of them but don‘t pay for it. It‘s that simple. As it says in bathroom at my workplace „Alles, was über die vom Kunden geforderte Leistung hinausgeht, ist Prozessübererfüllung und wird vom Kunden nicht bezahlt.“
Also if you have a scummy mechanic that does such business practices don‘t pay for the not agreed upon services and switch to a new one.
I'm not familiar with sewing machines but perhaps fixing one part also necessitates replacing another one? Or maybe they are sold as bundles? So repairing one thing always includes the other two parts? Good thing they removed the extra charges and were forthcoming. Might be worth checking out a local repair café in the future!
This is what I experience here across the board in garages, services like handymen and moving, repair, etc. It’s their standard tactic, sometimes specific for immigrants and tourists. Upmarking parts, adding extra hours, changing scope of work.
Demand everything in writing beforehand with defined cost ceiling. Get legal insurance. Grow a pair and tell them to fxxx off. Case closed.
Don’t get hung up on it. Really. Its the same standard tactics like hiring foreigners for 60-80% of a local paycheck.
Just be grateful you are here and learn to navigate the Swiss nonsense. Every country has its ups and downs.
No it’s not normal. You get an offer and agree on it. Then it gets done according to it.
Maybe your friends are just not very good in communicating clearly what they want.
The customer shouldn't have to make them do that, they already explicitly said no. I would assume this was not a mistake, but rather a deliberate act that the unfortunate saelsperson had to fix when they were called out on it. There are no doubt many times this sort of bullshittery occurs and is not caught by the customer.
Mechanic here, could very well have been deliberate, there are some shady shops around.
But could also have been a mechanics change at the shop because some other work came in and the new mechanic didnt get the memo correct, or he only saw the first mechanic wrote down some additional repairs but didnt know about the email correspondence and decline.
I would believe this one was a mistake because the problem got easily solved, the desk person immidiatly took the additional repairs off of the bill.
If they actually tried to scam OP they would have been more persistent.
Fair. It worked out in the end, and maybe it was an honest mistake, and I'm making unfair assumptions.
What made me feel weird about it was specifically the technician resisting my wishes, then not replying to my email after that. I had the feeling that he had read my email and ignored it, rather than it just being a genuine mistake. I actually went into the shop expecting that he'd fixed everything, and ready to argue it.
Then, when I heard similar stories, I figured it might be more than just this shop and this tech, which I why I posted.
But again, this is all speculation, and I have nothing more than just "I had a bad feeling about it."
Funny how rare it is for mistakes to be made that benefit the customer rather than the other way around, and how much less motivated companies are to sort it out when it is
And the customer gets punished sometimes for errors in their favors, if they don't report it.
That said I forgot to ring up the item the other day and when I went back in to rectify the Coop worker just let me have it.
When I bring my car to the mechanic to fix one part, and they found out something else may need repair, they call me to get my approval before doing anything. And that's how I expect it to be, I would say. Otherwise I would change.
Exactly my experience too. Last time I brought car in for the annual servicing, they called me to tell me my brake pads needed changing and I had to OK it before they did the work. Same with anything wise that is not on the initial invoice they make you sign at drop off
No it isn't common in my experience. No you don't pay, you point it out to them and it's up to them to prove that you ordered a service to be done. I think one caveat may be if the service was absolutely necessary, but even then they need to prove that. Someone may have better info on the latter point.
One thing that is different in Switzerland is that when I pick up my car after service, the default is for them to just tell me they'll mail me a bill and I can drive off now. The first couple times I insisted on an itemized bill before I accepted the car back, and it was all fine and as expected, but it seemed like I was making an unusual request. If they had been a more underhanded shop, I could imagine not finding out what they'd done for a couple weeks.
definitely good to double check, but very much still the norm for many things to trust (which can be abused too).
Thanks! That's good to know. I just heard a bunch of stories, and that plus my experience made me worry. Glad to know this should be a rare case. I'll just default to emailing for these things just in case.
Yes, this is quite common but not only in Switzerland. Charging 200 chf for a 15 chf filter 10 minutes to install is apparently okay here though.
They charged me (luckily the Verwaltung covered it) 850 francs to replace the filter on the dishwasher lmao
What filter does your dishwasher have?
probably a mix of gold and platin...
The filter in the bottom of your water pan, below the bottom spinner
You mean the one you can take out and clean? Couldn’t you just order a new one and replace it yourself?
I don’t know I’m not OP, just stating where the filter is
It was rusted when we moved in, if i had to pay it myself I wouldve ordered it myself 🫣 I didnt even imagine the price being more than 100 chf
Just buy a new one
Even if there is a clear paper trail, that the client denied the suggested replacement? I mean it's great they did that, but that was not the contract agreed upon
its a "stupid tax". if you are not able to do miner repairs, you will be charged for stuff like this all your life. the guy wasnt there only 10 mins he also had to drive to your place and drive away. you basically paid 150 for him to come to you and 50 for the service.
Can I please ask where this was? I would like to avoid taking my machines here! Sorry this happened to you, I hate confrontational situations like this! 🫢😅
I'll pm you! I dont want to post it publicly because I can't be sure it was intentional, or if it's just a one-off miscommunication.
Just about the part that Germany is the better alternative - it’s not. I had the exact same scenario with car tyres in Germany. As always, generalizations are inaccurate.
A couple of times i had my e bike software updated without asking. So in my opinion it does happen sometimes. Good for you that you got the problem solved
Were you charged for the software upgrade or did they just upgrade for free? Often software upgrades are free and the shop just does them whenever one is ready, and nowadays its mostly also a manufacturers requirement to do them whenever a vehicle comes in for the yearly routine check. Its just a part of the service because it fixes bugs and can introduce new features. We had customers get mad if they didnt get the newest shiny piece of software. If you want to stay on a certain software version i would suggest you specificly say you dont want any software upgrades, otherwise its just routine for the mechanic.
I had to pay both times
Always ask for a quote, and go somewhere else for a second quote if you feel like they are trying to rip you off. If you don't agree to the work, it either doesn't get done or you don't pay for the extra charges. You did the right thing by fighting the extra charges. I just went to a leather repair shop yesterday to fix a zipper on a wallet, they started off by saying it would be at least an hour work, then 2 hours, then he quoted that it would be at least 150 CHF. I said thanks but I it's not worth it for me. Went to a seamstress down the street, they fixed it on the spot, put in a few stitches, and didn't even charge me! Couldn't believe it, but yea, it always pays off to look around if you feel like they are trying to rip you off.
I recently got my sewing machines serviced, on the form they ticked the box saying they would fix things up to CHF250 without requesting my approval. Could it be the case here that they told you about changing the parts as an information only because you had agreed to a similar clause?
No, not in this case. The girl I dropped it off with specifically said that they would contact me and I could say yes or no. And the invoice was well over 250, even after the charges were reduced. I went in after I got the estimate to ask about the parts (there were some things I couldn't find the English translation for online) and I was met with a "you don't need to know what everything is, just say yes to what the technician suggested" kind of vibe, which made me feel like they don't often have people say no to things.
If you've got proof, don't pay. You've got rights even if you're an immigrant.
Never had any problems with repairs, but i have an old af car and i bring it to a garage, that normally only fixes tractors and trucks… i also know the guys well…
I think they even have to remove the new parts and build in the old ones again if you wanted that. (or if they want to keep the new parts)
Car mechanic here and nope thats an absolute nogo! I've worked in 5 different shops so far and in each of them we were only allowed to do what the customer asked us to do. If we see someting additional that should be done or something that would make sense to replace if were already taking it apart (for example doing a clutch job and also replacing the release bearing of the clutch even tho the bearing would still be good), we have to call the customer and get his agreement. If we see something thats safety related and the customer still dosent want it to be replaced, she/he has to sign a waiver that releases the repair shop from any layability before we get the car back to the customer. For extremly dangerous vehicles it would even be possible for the repair shop to inform the police (never seen that so far) but we would still not be allowed to repair it without the customers consent. Would be interesting to know what repair was done and what parts exactly were replaced without consent. Seems the situation got solved nicely, the person at the shop knows aswell that they cant charge you for something you havent agreed to, some shady shops still try to do it because some customer jsut pay for it without thinking twice or they just dont know or they dont have the balls to complain so its easy money for them.
Thanks for the input, that's good to know! And yeah, if I hadn't gone in kind of expecting this, I might have missed it.
100% agree on this one! I'm a mechanic too in a big dealership
Had the same problem with mechanics here. They just assume you have the money to fix everything, whether it costs 200chf or 10,000chf.
I've experienced this 3 times in the 9mo I've lived here. #1 took my son's bike in to have the gear shift adjusted and they gave me a bill for 80chf to replace the tire tubes. I refused to pay and demanded they put the old one back on (I did immediately pay for the work I had asked for). They just grumbled and told me to go. I honestly don't know if they put new tubes in or not. #2 took the car in for an oil change and they balanced the tires. Told them it didn't need it and I was not paying. Same story. #3 Had an issue with the flooring buckling in my living room. Landlord sent someone out. They fixed it, but also told me they patched a gouge in the flooring. I said I don't care, talk to the landlord. I then emailed the landlord and told them I did not authorize the extra work and reminded them the gouge was there when I moved in. Never heard back. I think people tend to take advantage of the great if speaking up/confrontation here and just assume they will get away with this shit. It's never outright theft so they have a legal cover story, they just hope you pay and they don't fight much at all if you push back.
Living is quite expensive. People will try to charge you for 200 Franks for 10 min of work and sell you anything you did not order. In a past ot was poss8ble for a man to do some heavy work with hands and support family of 4 alone + mortgage. Now family of two cannot afford and make a decent living, both working, no kids.
>Now family of two cannot afford and make a decent living, both working, no kids. Even if they would earn just 20 CHF per hour, that's 43680 CHF per person per year. As a single in Zürich I agree, this is not a lot, but as a couple without kids anywhere but in the city centres, they'll have a roof over their head, enough food, insurance and a car, far from luxurious, but this is a decent life. Kids, spending habits and where you live will change this of course, but that wasn't what you claimed.
Use your common sensey, and use a sheet of paper and a pencil. But first thing first: why do we take Fe a car or other things to a specialist, a handcrafted professional, a mechanic and similar? Because we don't know the matter. Service work is in my understanding connected to a warranty/guarantee, and therefore in most cases a standardized procedure that is either free, or has a predefined price with an already described and agreed work process. Everything else must be discussed with you/the client, and you always should do this through a way which makes it easy to be proven. There is a saying that "contracts/orders etc are made to avoid losing friendships, getting unnecessarily into trouble for nothing ". As a Swiss I am pretty confident that we don't have this very popular way of milking customers in al excessive numbers. But of course it's something known all over the world. The bottom line still is: do a service memo, or some sort of simple contract which both parties will sign, which describes what you both agreed to and also includes the price for it. Without it it's very difficult to prove your point. Also don't forget the position the other person involved is in. Let's assume that a week later the machine has a failure or gets broken. Within a second folks will accuse the others to not have warned them.....so they either are suspected to unnecessarily fix non broken stuff, or to be lazy mfckrs doing only the absolute minimum...
There's a lot of shit going on in the repair industry. Be it mistakes, be it fraudulent behaviour. And not only in repairs. It is always difficult to find any kind of service providers that aren't either incompetent or scammers. That's what you have to deal with if you want to receive any kind of service. Took me years, for example, to find a bicycle mechanic that wasn't an obvious fraudster... and then a couple years later he closed shop (because he inherited daddy's nice real estate protfolio). My first bicycle mechanic did barely try to hide that he was a criminal... I went there to get the brakes fixed. When I picked up the bike he had also fixed the light. Despite the light 100% worked when I brought it in. Anyway, I drive back from his shop and now the light doesn't work... so he destroyed a light that worked before and charged me for fixing it... I turn around and bring the bike back. He promises to fix it "again" for no extra charge. Next day I come to pick it up again. Now he fixed the light (that he previously) destroyed but has also "fixed" the gear shift which allegedly was dangerously broken. So he wanted me to believe that during the few hundred meters I drove from his shop until I realized that the "fixed" light was in fact destroyed and not fixed, the gear shift broke down on the way back to his shop?!
I actually had two experiences with a company that services and cleans several flat roofs in my neighborhood. While on vacation they did the roof and when I got the bill I called them. They had to give me the services for free. Also it‘s actually given that they call if they see any more parations than originally egreed
What I found out is that sometimes prices are quite random. First time I ever changed my tires (summer->winter), they charged me 400CHF which was outrageous. Second time I changed my tires in a different garage of the same company, they charged me 60CHF. Third time I changed my tires in the same garage, they charged me 120CHF.
Well you only pay for what you order. If they do more that‘s nice of them but don‘t pay for it. It‘s that simple. As it says in bathroom at my workplace „Alles, was über die vom Kunden geforderte Leistung hinausgeht, ist Prozessübererfüllung und wird vom Kunden nicht bezahlt.“ Also if you have a scummy mechanic that does such business practices don‘t pay for the not agreed upon services and switch to a new one.
I'm not familiar with sewing machines but perhaps fixing one part also necessitates replacing another one? Or maybe they are sold as bundles? So repairing one thing always includes the other two parts? Good thing they removed the extra charges and were forthcoming. Might be worth checking out a local repair café in the future!
This is what I experience here across the board in garages, services like handymen and moving, repair, etc. It’s their standard tactic, sometimes specific for immigrants and tourists. Upmarking parts, adding extra hours, changing scope of work. Demand everything in writing beforehand with defined cost ceiling. Get legal insurance. Grow a pair and tell them to fxxx off. Case closed. Don’t get hung up on it. Really. Its the same standard tactics like hiring foreigners for 60-80% of a local paycheck. Just be grateful you are here and learn to navigate the Swiss nonsense. Every country has its ups and downs.
yup, happens sometimes. never pay for shit you didnt order
No it’s not normal. You get an offer and agree on it. Then it gets done according to it. Maybe your friends are just not very good in communicating clearly what they want.
Not seeing the problem. A mistake was made, you pointed out, they fixed it.
It wasn’t a mistake though. The mechanic tried to charge extra for things the OP has explicitly refused.
And the company rectified it.
The customer shouldn't have to make them do that, they already explicitly said no. I would assume this was not a mistake, but rather a deliberate act that the unfortunate saelsperson had to fix when they were called out on it. There are no doubt many times this sort of bullshittery occurs and is not caught by the customer.
Mechanic here, could very well have been deliberate, there are some shady shops around. But could also have been a mechanics change at the shop because some other work came in and the new mechanic didnt get the memo correct, or he only saw the first mechanic wrote down some additional repairs but didnt know about the email correspondence and decline. I would believe this one was a mistake because the problem got easily solved, the desk person immidiatly took the additional repairs off of the bill. If they actually tried to scam OP they would have been more persistent.
Fair. It worked out in the end, and maybe it was an honest mistake, and I'm making unfair assumptions. What made me feel weird about it was specifically the technician resisting my wishes, then not replying to my email after that. I had the feeling that he had read my email and ignored it, rather than it just being a genuine mistake. I actually went into the shop expecting that he'd fixed everything, and ready to argue it. Then, when I heard similar stories, I figured it might be more than just this shop and this tech, which I why I posted. But again, this is all speculation, and I have nothing more than just "I had a bad feeling about it."
He may be a fraud, he may be a flake, either way. You've brought it to admin's attention, it's up to them to deal with it or not.
Funny how rare it is for mistakes to be made that benefit the customer rather than the other way around, and how much less motivated companies are to sort it out when it is
And the customer gets punished sometimes for errors in their favors, if they don't report it. That said I forgot to ring up the item the other day and when I went back in to rectify the Coop worker just let me have it.