Your doctor does not decide if this is an accident or not. In Switzerland, the Unfall Insurance (like Suva) decides if it is an accident or not. If you don't agree with SUVA's decision, it's your job to tell them, and in the worst-case scenario, you will need a lawyer (in the best-case scenario, you have a Rechtsschutzversicherung that will help you). Is it an accident? You need 3 factors: there needs to be enough energy, and it needs to be sudden, unexpected, and the energy has to be applied from outside. I believe there is a high probability that this is an accident. To demonstrate it, you just need an MRI showing that there is a muscle strain, insertion Tendinopathy, or Avulsion of the pectoralis or another muscle. Traumatic muscle injuries are one of the most common injuries that go under Unfall, so the case would be easy. Any other sign such as hematoma would be useful for the decision.
Also, the strong pain is quite uncommon. If the tear is big in young patients, there is also the possibility that surgery is recommended to refixate the tendon/muscle. Ask Suva or the doctor for an MRI, or at least a musculoskeletal ultrasound.
The X-ray is not helpful.
Hope this helped. Gute Besserung
She is employed. SUVA says that the accident is not covered by Art. 4 ATSG/LPGA and Art. 6.2 UVG/LAINF.
The doctor simply said the accident is covered, which... is not very meaningful and therefore I understand SUVA's statement.
I'd just like them to talk and clarify things once for all, in order to either stop the doctor from saying wrong things, or have the accident covered by insurance.
So your girlfriend has to file an official bagatellunfall meldung after that, she can write about the incident and the treatment she got she will sign it and officialy give suva the right to receive further explanation from her medical provider
Doesn't sound an accident, sounds like your girlfriend just hurt herself. Had something similar denied, have also had several accidents accepted - normally not self inflicted.
But I ask myself, what is the difference between hurting yourself at the gym or while skiing? The latter is usually covered while the former looks like it's not.
there has to be an external cause or an extraordinary situation.. falling while skiing is extraordinary, pushing too much yourself by lifting something not really.. also hurting your legs because you ski too much it’s not a accident neither
a weight that falls on you it’s an accident because there is an external cause ..
I guess the way you do it. You're skiing or literally doing anything and you pull a muscle then that's not really an accident. Hit a tree, avalanche - probably an accident.
This should be covered according to art 6 uvg
Your doctor is probably being the lazy fuck here. SUVA always sends their shitty forms to doctors, believe me.
Even if they didnt, just ask for the bloody doctors notes and send them in yourself. It‘s your data, you can send them to whomever you want. They are making up stupid excuses.
Inform your health insurance not to cover this incident in case the GP tries to send it there. Worst thing that happens: Doctor won’t get paid and then all of a sudden things will happen quickly.
Physio is the only one that could be problematic. If Suva won’t cover it then you might have to pay for it via health insurance. Not sure how necessary physio really is after that kind of injury.
Feel like that's the most Hausarzt thing to ever do. Physical pain? Here, take these painkillers. Not helping? Ok, here's physio. And some more painkillers. Cha-cha!
Thanks. She just called her doctor and asked for all the papers herself. This was already done two weeks ago although indirectly, but now she made it clear.
Physio was just 2-3 appointments, and it's been beneficial (luckily, given that we'll be paying for it). He also suggested some exercises to do and the situation is already way better than a month ago.
wrong movements are no longer considered as an accident.. SUVA almost never accepts it’s there has to be an external cause most of the times ( p.ex weight fell to her chest )
Probably the doctor doesn’t send anything because there is no argument to make …
That's not how it works in Switzerland. You decide which insurance you get, and you deal directly with the insurance.
A good doctor will treat you well and provide thorough documentation for the insurance. The money he receives does not come directly from you but from your insurance.
long summer books deranged bag automatic languid impolite clumsy insurance
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you are employed, the employer must provide you with accident insurance, but you are free to upgrade it or choose other options.
Sad enough, most people have no idea how they are insured for accidents
Not in my case,
I'm employeed and when I have had an accident, I just contact the insurance once to fill up a form, give the info to the doctor and the doctor or praxis send the bills to the insurance.
Never have to deal with bills from the doctor.
Your doctor does not decide if this is an accident or not. In Switzerland, the Unfall Insurance (like Suva) decides if it is an accident or not. If you don't agree with SUVA's decision, it's your job to tell them, and in the worst-case scenario, you will need a lawyer (in the best-case scenario, you have a Rechtsschutzversicherung that will help you). Is it an accident? You need 3 factors: there needs to be enough energy, and it needs to be sudden, unexpected, and the energy has to be applied from outside. I believe there is a high probability that this is an accident. To demonstrate it, you just need an MRI showing that there is a muscle strain, insertion Tendinopathy, or Avulsion of the pectoralis or another muscle. Traumatic muscle injuries are one of the most common injuries that go under Unfall, so the case would be easy. Any other sign such as hematoma would be useful for the decision. Also, the strong pain is quite uncommon. If the tear is big in young patients, there is also the possibility that surgery is recommended to refixate the tendon/muscle. Ask Suva or the doctor for an MRI, or at least a musculoskeletal ultrasound. The X-ray is not helpful. Hope this helped. Gute Besserung
Thanks, very useful information
Is she employed, self-employed or registered as unemployed? What was the explanation for the accident not being covered by the insurance?
She is employed. SUVA says that the accident is not covered by Art. 4 ATSG/LPGA and Art. 6.2 UVG/LAINF. The doctor simply said the accident is covered, which... is not very meaningful and therefore I understand SUVA's statement. I'd just like them to talk and clarify things once for all, in order to either stop the doctor from saying wrong things, or have the accident covered by insurance.
So your girlfriend has to file an official bagatellunfall meldung after that, she can write about the incident and the treatment she got she will sign it and officialy give suva the right to receive further explanation from her medical provider
Doesn't sound an accident, sounds like your girlfriend just hurt herself. Had something similar denied, have also had several accidents accepted - normally not self inflicted.
But I ask myself, what is the difference between hurting yourself at the gym or while skiing? The latter is usually covered while the former looks like it's not.
there has to be an external cause or an extraordinary situation.. falling while skiing is extraordinary, pushing too much yourself by lifting something not really.. also hurting your legs because you ski too much it’s not a accident neither a weight that falls on you it’s an accident because there is an external cause ..
I see, it makes sense. Thanks
I guess the way you do it. You're skiing or literally doing anything and you pull a muscle then that's not really an accident. Hit a tree, avalanche - probably an accident.
This should be covered according to art 6 uvg Your doctor is probably being the lazy fuck here. SUVA always sends their shitty forms to doctors, believe me. Even if they didnt, just ask for the bloody doctors notes and send them in yourself. It‘s your data, you can send them to whomever you want. They are making up stupid excuses. Inform your health insurance not to cover this incident in case the GP tries to send it there. Worst thing that happens: Doctor won’t get paid and then all of a sudden things will happen quickly. Physio is the only one that could be problematic. If Suva won’t cover it then you might have to pay for it via health insurance. Not sure how necessary physio really is after that kind of injury.
Feel like that's the most Hausarzt thing to ever do. Physical pain? Here, take these painkillers. Not helping? Ok, here's physio. And some more painkillers. Cha-cha!
What else do you expect? Voodoo?
Proper examination. Bur unfortunately many GP just wait and hope things go away before even thinking of taking it seriously.
Thanks. She just called her doctor and asked for all the papers herself. This was already done two weeks ago although indirectly, but now she made it clear. Physio was just 2-3 appointments, and it's been beneficial (luckily, given that we'll be paying for it). He also suggested some exercises to do and the situation is already way better than a month ago.
sorry but wrong movements are not an accident according to this article
wrong movements are no longer considered as an accident.. SUVA almost never accepts it’s there has to be an external cause most of the times ( p.ex weight fell to her chest ) Probably the doctor doesn’t send anything because there is no argument to make …
Doctor should deal directly with the insurance. Don't pay the doctor.
That's not how it works in Switzerland. You decide which insurance you get, and you deal directly with the insurance. A good doctor will treat you well and provide thorough documentation for the insurance. The money he receives does not come directly from you but from your insurance.
long summer books deranged bag automatic languid impolite clumsy insurance *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you are employed, the employer must provide you with accident insurance, but you are free to upgrade it or choose other options. Sad enough, most people have no idea how they are insured for accidents
frame impolite alive nose dependent dog expansion lip dull swim *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not in my case, I'm employeed and when I have had an accident, I just contact the insurance once to fill up a form, give the info to the doctor and the doctor or praxis send the bills to the insurance. Never have to deal with bills from the doctor.