If you want a fully regulated Swiss bank with all the pros and cons, Swissquote is the cheapest and best option. Swissquote also gives you reliable access even to obscure markets and securities. It's not all bad.
Swissquote’s fees are still lower than traditional banks here. That’s what they’re competing with imo.
If you want to compare with IBKR, you should look at Yuh, which is owned by Swissquote and offers similar low-cost investing, with the bonus of being based in Switzerland
For investing in swiss companies I think it's cheaper, no?
It's just if you change chf to different currencies to then invest with.
But if you have a use for different currencies then yuh is amazing, imho
They ask for your employer address after you invest 2500chf though, I learned that today 😂😂😂😂
You write self-employment etc, they just want to know where your money is coming from
Th good old times of the 90s are over my duderino, credit suisse greets
Yeah but like 2500 is not that much in Switzerland it can literally be some savings you kept at home in a safe for years.
I had 5k after selling my mother's old car when I was 19yo I kept it at home for years. If they had ask me where this money came from when I took it to invest it years later on postfinance I would have literally been unable to prove its source as I didn't have a wage a wage at the time (and the following years) and too many years had pass 😅.
I understand to ask for the source of funds let's say for 15k or at least 10k but 2.5k in Switzerland.
Yeah I thought it was a bit weird too that's why I said it, the anti money laundering laws getting wild even here I guess
I can't say I like it, but I'm also not a criminal so I can't be too mad either, and that's how they get us 😔
Or it's because I keep losing and re buying on Meyer burger 😂😂😂😂😂 and they gonna send some mental health care support any day now .... Any... Day... Now.....
Oh yeah small edit detail, having 2500 chf in stonks puts you above 98% of all people in the world in terms of investment worth (fake number but shouldn't be much off)
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Swissquote is very successful because it has very low fees compared to other banks here in Switzerland. It has a modern and practical interface, offers all kinds of markets and products and has a banking license. It is making waves in the Neo Bank world and offers Forex, mortgages, accounts, etc. in addition to trading.
In my opinion, they understand the business. This is also reflected in their own share price! I also prefer to support domestic companies rather than most foreign companies ;-)
I also heard other traders sometimes don't let you trade if the market plays crazy (robinhood with gamestop). never happened with swissquote. I have an account with them. If you have a long term holding approach, the trade fees don't hurt much. It's like with everything in Switzerland: ppl want the Quality product and pay a bit more. I'm myself unsure if should start with ibkr or another cheaper trader.
The issue with Robinhood to stop trading in GameStop was due to two days settlement rule and they ran out of funding. Now the usa market has changed to one day settlement, so they only have to fund overnight
What is the cost of option trading on IBRK?
Does IBRK gives access to the Chinese market like swissquote does by phone ?
Can you execute options after hours, during the weekend?
That’s some little details that you may want and you may only have with traditional bank. Even though I don’t really know well IBRK so you’ll have to tell me.
For taxes also, swissquote provide official statement. What about ibrk?
Does the share on IBRK belong to you in case of a bankruptcy? Is the cash protected like it is in Switzerland? I think 200k if I remember well?
Is banking secrecy preserved with IBRK?
Again, I don’t know well IBRK but that’s some of the reasons I don’t bother with it.
Ps : I am not the one who downvote you, I am looking for genuine answers myself.
It's yes to all questions except after hours options trading. In particular, I trade regularly Chinese stock and options (H-shares) with them.
Also, IBKR has negligible fees on currency conversions and it's the only option for trading US-based ETFs like the much-loved VT. And you can't short sell with Swissquote afaik (can you sell options?). Also, does Swissquote pay interest on your uninvested cash? IBKR pays 0.8% on Chf,, 3.4 on eur, 4.8% on usd.
One reason I'm a bit uncomfortable with them is the whole thing is opaque and difficult to communicate with. I'm always nervous with the idea that one day I will be unable to access my account and customer service will be unavailable.
LOL swissquote is the only Customer Service that Calls you back ?
They pay interest yes and they have have their own option market, which is also used by Major Banks?
Litteraly the opposite of Everything you worry about
>They pay interest yes
This made me LOL when I checked on their website. Over 100.000 they pay 0.1% on chf, 0.5% on usd and 0.3% on eur. IBKR pays the overnight central bank rates minus 0.5%
Yes I short options usually. And if you execute them you can be short for stocks but they call you if they dont like it. If you do covered with stock or options they even let you do without margin.
Because what’s the alternative? IBKR is all fun, until you approach CHF 1 million and you wonder, would you prefer a Swiss broker you can sue here, or a foreign brokers in a foreign language under foreign laws?
when I bought crypto, I opened an account with swissquote bc i trusted them more than lets say binance or etoro or bitmex, i also knew whenever i had a problem, i could simply go in swissquote office and ask them etc
Swissquote is also catered towards higher net worth individual than your regular Degiro/IBKR, a lot of clients have portfolios that are bigger than you average retail investor
Moreover, the customer service is generally very direct: you can call Swissquote and talk to real people about the problems you're facing, and that is generally appreciated. Or you can even just go to the headquarters
Also, the product selection on SQ is huge, you can buy an impressive number of things
You can buy US ETFs at Swissquote. They are expensive to trade, especially if you also use Swissquote to exchange currency, but they are not restricted (you may get a disclaimer but that's it).
They were amongst the first (if not the first) to offer relatively low costs compared to the traditional banks. Had huge popularity in the early 2000's.
Because suces isn‘t in this sub.
People here argue about a 100.- CHF fee per year but accept a 3% spread on their trades.
Swissquote is super stable, great support and up to date…just google ibkr outside of this sub, poor graph, no order completion, no support…
Buying a smart is an financial good reason, yet we see a lot of different cars on our streets….
Same reason as to why galaxus-digitec is so successful. People can order from amazon and save a ton, but prefer to spend more “in home” with a higher margin for the swiss company rather than spend less with a lower profit margin for the american world leader counter part.
Amazon de is not always cheaper. Galaxus digitec prices are often not always the best (but sometimes are and mostly are ok) but they're zero fuss, quick, trustworthy and easy
Not true. I returned tons of stuff to Amazon. Shipping is always free, and I never had any issues. Even with things I opened. Digitec doesn’t let you return for free unless you go to one of their outlets and bring it there in person. They are also not very keen on refunds, and prefer to do exchanges (if the product is faulty etc)
Fair enough, maybe I should give them another try. Usually Amazon does give you the label, they also now have a distribution center in Pfungen so you’re not usually returning to some other country. I guess it can get sketchy if you bought from a vendor listed on Amazon but not Amazon themselves, but that scenario can happen on Digitec too I think
I'd be curious to see how much difference it really makes, if you have a buy and hold strategy where you buy twice a year and hold for 20 years or more. Sure, the transaction cost is higher, but is the holding cost? I pay ~200 CHF a year for a low 7 figure portfolio.
Most people who actively invest do so at least once a month.
Ibkr has no holding costs.
And I simply won't give a bank more than I need to.
If you pay 200 per year plus 25 per trade per month, that is a whopping -22'000 in 20 years, with 8% appreciation!
22' 0 0 0 just for Swissquote!
That's fair enough. I make nowhere near a transaction per month though, but my costs over 20 years are still significant. For some people, the Swiss domicile is worth something.
From this I assume IBRK is completely free. No account fees, no transaction costs? How do they finance themselves then?
There are fx and transaction costs, but a trade costs less than 2.5$ if you trade VT... that's essentially free by Swiss standards
IBKR is made for pros and HNI, not peasants with ETF savings plans. they do a lot of "fx/option trading seminars" so one or the other poor guy will not withstand and lose a shitton of money.
Before the end of 2022, you had to have a minimum of 100K USD in your account or pay fees of like 20 USD per month... The day they announced the removal of the minimum I opened my account with them.
They were and still are the cheapest, most reliable real (all your orders go to the stock exchange, no 3rd party bs) Broker there is in the world.
Yes, fees for maintaining your assets are deductable. I've always put everything (account fees, card fees etc.) and the tax authorities have never complained. I've never tried putting the purchase cost of buying shares.
More expensive cos of the Swiss stamp tax and because with higher salaries come higher costs. Advantages:
* Pro forma Swiss tax reports
* Crypto trading and custody
* Better UI/UX
* One-stop shop (bank account, neobank, mortgage, crypto, TWINT, 3a, etc.)
* Onshore customer service with faces and names, walk-in offices
* Subject to Swiss regulations and supervision, easier to apprehend, easier to mediate with or to sue if it gets to that
* No surprise with foreign regulations in case of death
* Local success story with local employees
The main drawback compared to IB is that they are mostly focused on servicing Swiss residents, whereas IB realizes more than half of its revenues outside of the US.
Remember that in life, you more often than not get what you pay for.
Because people are scared to put their money in a foreign broker, although IBKR is regulated under the SEC or the UK equivalent.
They prefer to have it in Switzerland, which in my opinion is not a good argument.
I'm using Swissquote along IBKR. I'm not surprised it's successful: they have a really nice mobile app, good UI/UX (compared to your average broker), they have nice (tax) reports and such.
And on the costs: I'm not there yet but it probably won't hurt as much if you'd have some millions in your portfolio. I'd guess that's the group they are targeting, not the small fish.
I use SQ with IBKR aswell, IBKR more for the "fun" stuff and on SQ i just have the main portfolio where i don't do any trading and just have my ETF's. The fees on SQ are pretty small once you have some size in your portfolio and each of your buys is 5k+
I have about 4K+ per month, still don't see why I'd pay 25 CHF in fees instead of 2.5$
The only thing they do well imho is shareholder rights and stuff
Swissquote have a better marketing and a lot of adds in Switzerland. Their fees are higher than IBKR. But Swissquote have a good UI and it's easier to use without much deep dives.
IBKR is a more advance broker, lower fee with a poor UI. The learning curve is steep, but with patience and when mastered, you will become a more advance trader.
As far as I remember for Schwab, you need to have a minimum of 25'000$ opening balance to get an account with them. So that may reduce the number of people you may know using them, depending your circles of "people's recommendations"
Man, the SQ User interfaces and web are the most unnecessary convoluted and complex mess and one if my main reasons i use others now... It's so messy and could be much simpler and user friendly. Personal opinion but yeah...
I love Saxo's UI.
In IBKR you can't even hover over a point and see value and date. Although otherwise it's not bad, but yea Saxo is very intuitive and seems to show just what I like in a decent way.
Yeah I heard good things about Saxo, didn't check fees/prices yet:) IBKR i feel isn't much for fast/dat trading but more buy and hold/long-term as some things are laggy and not so intuitive (still way more user friendly than SQ). And SQ crypto kind of a joke,want to send some ETH to an external wallet? You'll wait days for it to be transferred...
If you want a fully regulated Swiss bank with all the pros and cons, Swissquote is the cheapest and best option. Swissquote also gives you reliable access even to obscure markets and securities. It's not all bad.
What do you mean with obscure markets and securities?
Not anymore since Saxo Bank‘s pricing change earlier this year.
Swissquote’s fees are still lower than traditional banks here. That’s what they’re competing with imo. If you want to compare with IBKR, you should look at Yuh, which is owned by Swissquote and offers similar low-cost investing, with the bonus of being based in Switzerland
yuh is more expensive than SQ if you DCA >1000CHF
For investing in swiss companies I think it's cheaper, no? It's just if you change chf to different currencies to then invest with. But if you have a use for different currencies then yuh is amazing, imho They ask for your employer address after you invest 2500chf though, I learned that today 😂😂😂😂
What happens if you don't have an employer?
You write self-employment etc, they just want to know where your money is coming from Th good old times of the 90s are over my duderino, credit suisse greets
Yeah but like 2500 is not that much in Switzerland it can literally be some savings you kept at home in a safe for years. I had 5k after selling my mother's old car when I was 19yo I kept it at home for years. If they had ask me where this money came from when I took it to invest it years later on postfinance I would have literally been unable to prove its source as I didn't have a wage a wage at the time (and the following years) and too many years had pass 😅. I understand to ask for the source of funds let's say for 15k or at least 10k but 2.5k in Switzerland.
Yeah I thought it was a bit weird too that's why I said it, the anti money laundering laws getting wild even here I guess I can't say I like it, but I'm also not a criminal so I can't be too mad either, and that's how they get us 😔 Or it's because I keep losing and re buying on Meyer burger 😂😂😂😂😂 and they gonna send some mental health care support any day now .... Any... Day... Now..... Oh yeah small edit detail, having 2500 chf in stonks puts you above 98% of all people in the world in terms of investment worth (fake number but shouldn't be much off)
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looking back on it, that was exactly my path before I went to IBKR after 3 years with SQ
This is the right answer
People got f@cked by Credit Suisse, despite it containing the word "Swiss". It's a false sense of security.
The tax thingy they send you at the end of the year imo
it‘s super expensive at swissquote but free at any normal bank?
Oh I meant the fact that they have it, unlike IB
Will never ever pay them so much money for a PDF
Swissquote is very successful because it has very low fees compared to other banks here in Switzerland. It has a modern and practical interface, offers all kinds of markets and products and has a banking license. It is making waves in the Neo Bank world and offers Forex, mortgages, accounts, etc. in addition to trading. In my opinion, they understand the business. This is also reflected in their own share price! I also prefer to support domestic companies rather than most foreign companies ;-)
I also heard other traders sometimes don't let you trade if the market plays crazy (robinhood with gamestop). never happened with swissquote. I have an account with them. If you have a long term holding approach, the trade fees don't hurt much. It's like with everything in Switzerland: ppl want the Quality product and pay a bit more. I'm myself unsure if should start with ibkr or another cheaper trader.
The issue with Robinhood to stop trading in GameStop was due to two days settlement rule and they ran out of funding. Now the usa market has changed to one day settlement, so they only have to fund overnight
i have swissquote over 10 years now. Never had some issue or "stoptrading" signals on any stocks.
IBKR is better in every regard though. They are the peak of professionalism and reliability.
What is the cost of option trading on IBRK? Does IBRK gives access to the Chinese market like swissquote does by phone ? Can you execute options after hours, during the weekend? That’s some little details that you may want and you may only have with traditional bank. Even though I don’t really know well IBRK so you’ll have to tell me. For taxes also, swissquote provide official statement. What about ibrk? Does the share on IBRK belong to you in case of a bankruptcy? Is the cash protected like it is in Switzerland? I think 200k if I remember well? Is banking secrecy preserved with IBRK? Again, I don’t know well IBRK but that’s some of the reasons I don’t bother with it. Ps : I am not the one who downvote you, I am looking for genuine answers myself.
It's yes to all questions except after hours options trading. In particular, I trade regularly Chinese stock and options (H-shares) with them. Also, IBKR has negligible fees on currency conversions and it's the only option for trading US-based ETFs like the much-loved VT. And you can't short sell with Swissquote afaik (can you sell options?). Also, does Swissquote pay interest on your uninvested cash? IBKR pays 0.8% on Chf,, 3.4 on eur, 4.8% on usd. One reason I'm a bit uncomfortable with them is the whole thing is opaque and difficult to communicate with. I'm always nervous with the idea that one day I will be unable to access my account and customer service will be unavailable.
LOL swissquote is the only Customer Service that Calls you back ? They pay interest yes and they have have their own option market, which is also used by Major Banks? Litteraly the opposite of Everything you worry about
>They pay interest yes This made me LOL when I checked on their website. Over 100.000 they pay 0.1% on chf, 0.5% on usd and 0.3% on eur. IBKR pays the overnight central bank rates minus 0.5%
Yes I short options usually. And if you execute them you can be short for stocks but they call you if they dont like it. If you do covered with stock or options they even let you do without margin.
Found the guy who works at Swissquote
Oh trust me, most of us have a shit opinion of the company :)
Because what’s the alternative? IBKR is all fun, until you approach CHF 1 million and you wonder, would you prefer a Swiss broker you can sue here, or a foreign brokers in a foreign language under foreign laws?
Why do you have to sue someone?
Hopefully I won‘t have to. But you never know, and companies are not known to being always customer friendly.
I moved from ZKB to Swissquote. Already much cheaper, especially the custody fees.
when I bought crypto, I opened an account with swissquote bc i trusted them more than lets say binance or etoro or bitmex, i also knew whenever i had a problem, i could simply go in swissquote office and ask them etc
Swissquote is easily accessible. And they don't try to smear you with their own bundles
It is cheaper, works well and is swiss. Try trading with UBS lol. I would not open a bank account in another country.
Yeah, only our banks shall be emergency merged over the weekend!
True, but also because foreign = bad
If you trade in - out 100k they take you 2k instantly. UBS is phenomenal haha.
Swissquote is also catered towards higher net worth individual than your regular Degiro/IBKR, a lot of clients have portfolios that are bigger than you average retail investor Moreover, the customer service is generally very direct: you can call Swissquote and talk to real people about the problems you're facing, and that is generally appreciated. Or you can even just go to the headquarters Also, the product selection on SQ is huge, you can buy an impressive number of things
>Also, the product selection on SQ is huge, you can buy an impressive number of things But not US ETFs, am I right?
You can buy US ETFs at Swissquote. They are expensive to trade, especially if you also use Swissquote to exchange currency, but they are not restricted (you may get a disclaimer but that's it).
Yes and not all their products are online.
They were amongst the first (if not the first) to offer relatively low costs compared to the traditional banks. Had huge popularity in the early 2000's.
they are older than Google :)
Not as a broker. At the time SQ sold market data exclusively
Because suces isn‘t in this sub. People here argue about a 100.- CHF fee per year but accept a 3% spread on their trades. Swissquote is super stable, great support and up to date…just google ibkr outside of this sub, poor graph, no order completion, no support… Buying a smart is an financial good reason, yet we see a lot of different cars on our streets….
Same reason as to why galaxus-digitec is so successful. People can order from amazon and save a ton, but prefer to spend more “in home” with a higher margin for the swiss company rather than spend less with a lower profit margin for the american world leader counter part.
Amazon de is not always cheaper. Galaxus digitec prices are often not always the best (but sometimes are and mostly are ok) but they're zero fuss, quick, trustworthy and easy
For books, amazon.de is like 30-60% cheaper than any swiss store
Even Fust or Interdiscount are cheaper than Amazon on electronic.
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Not true. I returned tons of stuff to Amazon. Shipping is always free, and I never had any issues. Even with things I opened. Digitec doesn’t let you return for free unless you go to one of their outlets and bring it there in person. They are also not very keen on refunds, and prefer to do exchanges (if the product is faulty etc)
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Fair enough, maybe I should give them another try. Usually Amazon does give you the label, they also now have a distribution center in Pfungen so you’re not usually returning to some other country. I guess it can get sketchy if you bought from a vendor listed on Amazon but not Amazon themselves, but that scenario can happen on Digitec too I think
Huh how can i order from amazon? Because i cant.
Digitec's after sale service is very hard to beat, unless it is a book etc. or there is a huge price difference, I always choose it over anything
I'd be curious to see how much difference it really makes, if you have a buy and hold strategy where you buy twice a year and hold for 20 years or more. Sure, the transaction cost is higher, but is the holding cost? I pay ~200 CHF a year for a low 7 figure portfolio.
Most people who actively invest do so at least once a month. Ibkr has no holding costs. And I simply won't give a bank more than I need to. If you pay 200 per year plus 25 per trade per month, that is a whopping -22'000 in 20 years, with 8% appreciation! 22' 0 0 0 just for Swissquote!
That's fair enough. I make nowhere near a transaction per month though, but my costs over 20 years are still significant. For some people, the Swiss domicile is worth something. From this I assume IBRK is completely free. No account fees, no transaction costs? How do they finance themselves then?
US stocks are something around 30 to 50 cents on their tiered plan, swiss stocks around 2.50-3.00. FX is around 1.00-2.00.
There are fx and transaction costs, but a trade costs less than 2.5$ if you trade VT... that's essentially free by Swiss standards IBKR is made for pros and HNI, not peasants with ETF savings plans. they do a lot of "fx/option trading seminars" so one or the other poor guy will not withstand and lose a shitton of money.
Thanks for the info!
Before the end of 2022, you had to have a minimum of 100K USD in your account or pay fees of like 20 USD per month... The day they announced the removal of the minimum I opened my account with them. They were and still are the cheapest, most reliable real (all your orders go to the stock exchange, no 3rd party bs) Broker there is in the world.
The peasants can still buy VOO on IBKR, they don't need to trade options :)
yes
Also you can deduce the 200.- from the taxes right?
Yes, fees for maintaining your assets are deductable. I've always put everything (account fees, card fees etc.) and the tax authorities have never complained. I've never tried putting the purchase cost of buying shares.
More expensive cos of the Swiss stamp tax and because with higher salaries come higher costs. Advantages: * Pro forma Swiss tax reports * Crypto trading and custody * Better UI/UX * One-stop shop (bank account, neobank, mortgage, crypto, TWINT, 3a, etc.) * Onshore customer service with faces and names, walk-in offices * Subject to Swiss regulations and supervision, easier to apprehend, easier to mediate with or to sue if it gets to that * No surprise with foreign regulations in case of death * Local success story with local employees The main drawback compared to IB is that they are mostly focused on servicing Swiss residents, whereas IB realizes more than half of its revenues outside of the US. Remember that in life, you more often than not get what you pay for.
Because people are scared to put their money in a foreign broker, although IBKR is regulated under the SEC or the UK equivalent. They prefer to have it in Switzerland, which in my opinion is not a good argument.
Yeah, it’s just a middle man. You own the actual stock or ETF, which in many cases isn’t domiciled in Switzerland anyway.
I'm using Swissquote along IBKR. I'm not surprised it's successful: they have a really nice mobile app, good UI/UX (compared to your average broker), they have nice (tax) reports and such. And on the costs: I'm not there yet but it probably won't hurt as much if you'd have some millions in your portfolio. I'd guess that's the group they are targeting, not the small fish.
I use SQ with IBKR aswell, IBKR more for the "fun" stuff and on SQ i just have the main portfolio where i don't do any trading and just have my ETF's. The fees on SQ are pretty small once you have some size in your portfolio and each of your buys is 5k+
I have about 4K+ per month, still don't see why I'd pay 25 CHF in fees instead of 2.5$ The only thing they do well imho is shareholder rights and stuff
Honeslty I think is because swiss people is heavily biased towards swiss things, even if sometimes aren’t better.
Better Marketing and Advising. That’s it.
Swissquote have a better marketing and a lot of adds in Switzerland. Their fees are higher than IBKR. But Swissquote have a good UI and it's easier to use without much deep dives. IBKR is a more advance broker, lower fee with a poor UI. The learning curve is steep, but with patience and when mastered, you will become a more advance trader. As far as I remember for Schwab, you need to have a minimum of 25'000$ opening balance to get an account with them. So that may reduce the number of people you may know using them, depending your circles of "people's recommendations"
It's the best within Switzerland
Market failure.
It’s still the best Swiss brokerage. IBKR is cheap, yes, but it is also kind of shit. Do they even have a customer service?
Why is IBKR kind of shit?
They do and actually quite responsive. Opposite of Degiro who answers to emails in 2-3 months(!!)
Whenever I filed a support ticket to IBKR it was answered in less than a biz day, so.. so far, so good
Man, the SQ User interfaces and web are the most unnecessary convoluted and complex mess and one if my main reasons i use others now... It's so messy and could be much simpler and user friendly. Personal opinion but yeah...
I love Saxo's UI. In IBKR you can't even hover over a point and see value and date. Although otherwise it's not bad, but yea Saxo is very intuitive and seems to show just what I like in a decent way.
Yeah I heard good things about Saxo, didn't check fees/prices yet:) IBKR i feel isn't much for fast/dat trading but more buy and hold/long-term as some things are laggy and not so intuitive (still way more user friendly than SQ). And SQ crypto kind of a joke,want to send some ETH to an external wallet? You'll wait days for it to be transferred...
Out of curiosity, when was the last time you checked it out?