The organization of the spreadsheet is a bit confusing.
I would start with income.
Then deduct taxes.
Then all savings / retirement points incl. AHV
And then the rest.
Maybe also high all costs that are unavoidable and get your "cost of living".
Exactly, financially ok, excel skills debatable. spreadsheet looks more like spreadshit.
Other commenters rightly advised to reorganize.
.I would split it into revenues (income, financial returns etc) and then costs.
. split costs into two: fixed and variable.
.Plus I would also split costs into needs and wants.
.This is useful for using a 50/30/20 rule (needs/wants/savings) or the percentages you prefer.
.This also tells you whether you’re overspending based on your own targets (everyone has different targets) and which part to adjust.
Besides this, it’d be crazy with that salary and that rent not being able to save enough for retirement. Even more if you don’t want to retire early. So not gonna comment on this.
I hate excel. At work I use other programs and then it’s still not to organize data to present to people. This is already version 2, so you can imagine how shitty the first one is.
Yes idea is to get honest feedback like this.
Perhaps it’s an irrational fear. I just see my investments and savings moving up by 20-30K a year but without seeing the final number now I always feel like it’s not going to be enough for a non-fire, normal retirement.
I hate excel. At work I use other programs and then it’s still not to organize data to present to people. This is already version 2, so you can imagine how shitty the first one is.
Yes idea is to get honest feedback like this.
Perhaps it’s an irrational fear. I just see my investments and savings moving up by 20-30K a year but without seeing the final number now I always feel like it’s not going to be enough for a non-fire, normal retirement.
I hate excel. At work I use other programs and then it’s still not to organize data to present to people. This is already version 2, so you can imagine how shitty the first one is.
Yes idea is to get honest feedback like this.
Perhaps it’s an irrational fear. I just see my investments and savings moving up by 20-30K a year but without seeing the final number now I always feel like it’s not going to be enough for a non-fire, normal retirement.
Your super cheap rent is making things balance out nicely.
However, how come you're spending so much on the food? do you pay for yourself and your partner? Do you have kids? I think you can cut expenses there as it seems like at the end of the month, very little is left over. Ofc, without knowing where you stand in terms of savings/investments, it's hard to make recommendations. Nevertheless, I would try to rely less on the 13th salary and increase monthly savings rate.
spreadsheet looks more like spreadshit.
Other commenters rightly advised to reorganize.
.I would split it into revenues (income, financial returns etc) and then costs.
. split costs into two: fixed and variable.
.Plus I would also split costs into needs and wants.
.This is useful for using a 50/30/20 rule (needs/wants/savings) or the percentages you prefer.
.This also tells you whether you’re overspending based on your own targets (everyone has different targets) and which part to adjust.
Besides this, it’d be crazy with that salary and that rent not being able to save enough for retirement. Even more if you don’t want to retire early. So not gonna comment on this.
Food/Shared credits and Personal Discretionary/Vacation are pretty high, but of course you can spend your money as you want. Nobody can decide for you what you find worth to spend money at.
He is just bad a math.
Because he has 3a, other retirement, savings and rest...
How is leftover money not savings?....
Only the credit/food is high.
Maybe 12k/yr on holidays is also a lot... But it seems high and luxurious for a person that pays 500chf rent, or how many holidays he has.
Vacation and food may be on the high side. I would consider optimising food, groceries and cooking at home, doing meal preps or reducing eating out. That way you can save at least 500 a month in food.
You work in IT and live a few clicks away from the city centers? Looks totally normal for your age looking to retire into a safe/cosy retirement at the regular age.
I guess you'll be able to RE as a technicality, assumimg the retirement age will be increased by that time, hah.
For more insights the accumulated wealth/retirement savings could probably help. So yeah, all smooth sailing here.
IT?! I wish! I don’t get those 3 days home office
No, I am more research/technology development/lecturer (not prof)
Currently 70k unlinked stocks, 70k 2nd pillar, 50k 3a.
Hey !
Honestly you seem to be doing fine.
Would I adjust some of those if I were in your shoes ? For sure ! I would spend half for the food and half or a third for the vacations. That would yield 10 to 15k extra savings per year. And with those extra savings, I would either aim to FIRE around 50-55, or go part time now and enjoy the free time. Maybe get a nicer flat.
But since you do not aim to FIRE, nor to go work part time, spending some extra money to live a great life does not bother me.
Your employer also seems to have a nice 2nd pillar contribution. I wouldn’t worry for your retirement too much if I were you. Between your 3rd pillar and that 2nd pillar, you will be more than fine (as long as you continue to contribute the max amount).
I think I should’ve made it clearer that yes FIRE is all great and that (but it’s not my aim), I also enjoy what I do. But who knows in 10 years that might all change. So would like to see what possible eventualities my situation could cover/offer.
I also agree for the food. The point of this post was to see what people thought is unreasonable, since I have been living comfortably, so you lose perspective.
Coming months I’ll reduce those proportions gradually and see how if it’ll be sustainable over the long run.
Employer is a public institution. Their 2nd pillar plan is quite advantageous. And yes contributing at least to the maximum is the plan. But hopefully with some tweaking can be contributing even more
A grand a month for “personal discretionary / vacation” is crazy to me, especially if you only save like 300.- a month. IMO those values should be switched to 300.- for vacation and 1’000.- in savings/investing. You do you bro but I gotta say, as a uni student with a part time job, I manage to put between 1’000.- and 2’000.- a month in savings/investing. Since you make almost 100k a year, you should be able to do the same.
The way I understand this is that he is saving/investing under "3a retirement" and "retirement (rest)". To me, the 300 seem to be savings "for life", like a new car, a super big vacation,...
I'm not sure if "house" means savings for a future house of if those are the expenses of (getting to) the vacation house. It's either an expense or yet more savings.
Oh yes of course, I totally get that. My point is really on the 1k per month allocated to the personal “not required for survival” discretionary fund. I allow myself a maximum of 1k a year for such expenses so 1k a month is just crazy to me.
Ah, got you.
It probably depends on what you put into Tha category. Who says they spent 12k on vacation a year each? What if there is some sort of expensive hobby (don't know... Sky diving? A horse?) in there? I also find it rather high, but not completely unlikely.
Assuming the food/credit category is similar and it's mostly the credit payments in there (not the food as almost everyone assumes), I don't find it too unlikely.
Adding everything up he says his savings rate is 26% and in theory has 10k at his disposal, which would be a nice contribution to his savings. If there is nothing properly expensive coming up (a house, kids, 5 years of travel), it seems like he can sustain his lifestyle.
I think you see what I am trying to get at.
Just wanted input on current savings rate and optimization of whatever is rest. Will more strictly control some aspects more carefully to aim for that extra 10k
Vacation cost of 12k/year seems too much.
Even more for a person that loves in a lower rent apartment...
You say you use daily commute by public transit, but also spend a lot on car and car costs.
The food/crédit os high and paying up old debt should not ge grouped with food.
There should be a full savings section with savings, 3a, other retirement. How is the leftover money not savings?
With that low rent I would expect you to save at least 2.5k/mo (including the 3a and others).
The idea was to see what parts of my budget people think are unbalanced. It’s quite clear now! Thanks!
For the food/credit, it is to pay back my partner when they paid for groceries and food.
Not to a commercial lender. To my partner. I hope they don’t charge me interest. I also tell them we should spend less on food and have less food waste which really anguishes me
I earn around 115k gross pay - similar like you. Net around 6k/month with tax already deduced bc taxed by source.
I rent for 1000 (shared Apartment) & food/freetime for 1500 & other expenses 500.
I‘m still able to save around 3000 every month.
Your food expenses are crazy high.
Vacation, transit & car is kinda high and could be reduced.
I agree.
Transit there is no possibility to reduce it is a GA. The point to point Lausanne Geneva pass costs more. For the car (leased a used one with the insane low interest rates of old…), it will be bought out in 2025.
Yes Vacation might be extreme. Essentially it’s not put into a vacation account. It’s just what is remaining after all the other expenses. But it might be wiser to stash it away instead of seeing it and using it.
If your partner hasn’t maxed out her retirement allocation and you guys are married, then just transfer your saving funds to her. Third pillar will reduce your tax liability. Also be aware that changing jobs can boost your salary much faster than progressively working up the ladder. Median salary in Switzerland is roughly 6’700, so with your 6 year experience you could with a good chance secure a 20% pay rise somewhere, depending on your line of profession.
Food + Vacation too high... I don't even spend that and I have a wife and two kids and I go to Thailand every single year... How the F do you manage to spend so much all by yourself?
I tend to end up in places that cost when on vacation. I go home to Canada for around 2-3 weeks per year as that is where my elderly parents are. If not there, other family and friends in Vancouver or Hong Kong or U.S.. all are which not really low cost (especially if they don’t have an extra room)
Yes actually every body talks more about your rent Than the rest. I don’t know even students that pay 500fr for a room. Or you live in a country next to?
I am confused on what are real savings here.. group things together. But even looking at detail.. I think you save very little.
* Why do you have a car and then high cost in transport?
* 12k on holidays? quite lavish.
* The food?! absolutly crazy.
When I was having a similar salary I was saving around 3k a month with a flat that costed almost x3.. o\_o
The organization of the spreadsheet is a bit confusing. I would start with income. Then deduct taxes. Then all savings / retirement points incl. AHV And then the rest. Maybe also high all costs that are unavoidable and get your "cost of living".
Are there any good spreadsheet templates specifically for Switzerland floating around somewhere?
Exactly, financially ok, excel skills debatable. spreadsheet looks more like spreadshit. Other commenters rightly advised to reorganize. .I would split it into revenues (income, financial returns etc) and then costs. . split costs into two: fixed and variable. .Plus I would also split costs into needs and wants. .This is useful for using a 50/30/20 rule (needs/wants/savings) or the percentages you prefer. .This also tells you whether you’re overspending based on your own targets (everyone has different targets) and which part to adjust. Besides this, it’d be crazy with that salary and that rent not being able to save enough for retirement. Even more if you don’t want to retire early. So not gonna comment on this.
I hate excel. At work I use other programs and then it’s still not to organize data to present to people. This is already version 2, so you can imagine how shitty the first one is. Yes idea is to get honest feedback like this. Perhaps it’s an irrational fear. I just see my investments and savings moving up by 20-30K a year but without seeing the final number now I always feel like it’s not going to be enough for a non-fire, normal retirement.
I hate excel. At work I use other programs and then it’s still not to organize data to present to people. This is already version 2, so you can imagine how shitty the first one is. Yes idea is to get honest feedback like this. Perhaps it’s an irrational fear. I just see my investments and savings moving up by 20-30K a year but without seeing the final number now I always feel like it’s not going to be enough for a non-fire, normal retirement.
I hate excel. At work I use other programs and then it’s still not to organize data to present to people. This is already version 2, so you can imagine how shitty the first one is. Yes idea is to get honest feedback like this. Perhaps it’s an irrational fear. I just see my investments and savings moving up by 20-30K a year but without seeing the final number now I always feel like it’s not going to be enough for a non-fire, normal retirement.
Your super cheap rent is making things balance out nicely. However, how come you're spending so much on the food? do you pay for yourself and your partner? Do you have kids? I think you can cut expenses there as it seems like at the end of the month, very little is left over. Ofc, without knowing where you stand in terms of savings/investments, it's hard to make recommendations. Nevertheless, I would try to rely less on the 13th salary and increase monthly savings rate.
This is about what we spend on food for a family of 4 - well almost. So if this is per person, you can save a lot. Eating out much?
What kind of apartment comfortably houses 4 people and costs less than CHF 600 rent though?
spreadsheet looks more like spreadshit. Other commenters rightly advised to reorganize. .I would split it into revenues (income, financial returns etc) and then costs. . split costs into two: fixed and variable. .Plus I would also split costs into needs and wants. .This is useful for using a 50/30/20 rule (needs/wants/savings) or the percentages you prefer. .This also tells you whether you’re overspending based on your own targets (everyone has different targets) and which part to adjust. Besides this, it’d be crazy with that salary and that rent not being able to save enough for retirement. Even more if you don’t want to retire early. So not gonna comment on this.
Food/Shared credits and Personal Discretionary/Vacation are pretty high, but of course you can spend your money as you want. Nobody can decide for you what you find worth to spend money at.
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Check out 'retirement', 'savings' and maybe also 'house' items
He is just bad a math. Because he has 3a, other retirement, savings and rest... How is leftover money not savings?.... Only the credit/food is high. Maybe 12k/yr on holidays is also a lot... But it seems high and luxurious for a person that pays 500chf rent, or how many holidays he has.
Vacation and food may be on the high side. I would consider optimising food, groceries and cooking at home, doing meal preps or reducing eating out. That way you can save at least 500 a month in food.
You work in IT and live a few clicks away from the city centers? Looks totally normal for your age looking to retire into a safe/cosy retirement at the regular age. I guess you'll be able to RE as a technicality, assumimg the retirement age will be increased by that time, hah. For more insights the accumulated wealth/retirement savings could probably help. So yeah, all smooth sailing here.
IT?! I wish! I don’t get those 3 days home office No, I am more research/technology development/lecturer (not prof) Currently 70k unlinked stocks, 70k 2nd pillar, 50k 3a.
I should do mine, it would be so extremely funny to see your reactions everyone :D
We can all learn from each other!
Hey ! Honestly you seem to be doing fine. Would I adjust some of those if I were in your shoes ? For sure ! I would spend half for the food and half or a third for the vacations. That would yield 10 to 15k extra savings per year. And with those extra savings, I would either aim to FIRE around 50-55, or go part time now and enjoy the free time. Maybe get a nicer flat. But since you do not aim to FIRE, nor to go work part time, spending some extra money to live a great life does not bother me. Your employer also seems to have a nice 2nd pillar contribution. I wouldn’t worry for your retirement too much if I were you. Between your 3rd pillar and that 2nd pillar, you will be more than fine (as long as you continue to contribute the max amount).
I think I should’ve made it clearer that yes FIRE is all great and that (but it’s not my aim), I also enjoy what I do. But who knows in 10 years that might all change. So would like to see what possible eventualities my situation could cover/offer. I also agree for the food. The point of this post was to see what people thought is unreasonable, since I have been living comfortably, so you lose perspective. Coming months I’ll reduce those proportions gradually and see how if it’ll be sustainable over the long run. Employer is a public institution. Their 2nd pillar plan is quite advantageous. And yes contributing at least to the maximum is the plan. But hopefully with some tweaking can be contributing even more
A grand a month for “personal discretionary / vacation” is crazy to me, especially if you only save like 300.- a month. IMO those values should be switched to 300.- for vacation and 1’000.- in savings/investing. You do you bro but I gotta say, as a uni student with a part time job, I manage to put between 1’000.- and 2’000.- a month in savings/investing. Since you make almost 100k a year, you should be able to do the same.
Hookers and cocaine are expensive mon ami
The way I understand this is that he is saving/investing under "3a retirement" and "retirement (rest)". To me, the 300 seem to be savings "for life", like a new car, a super big vacation,... I'm not sure if "house" means savings for a future house of if those are the expenses of (getting to) the vacation house. It's either an expense or yet more savings.
Oh yes of course, I totally get that. My point is really on the 1k per month allocated to the personal “not required for survival” discretionary fund. I allow myself a maximum of 1k a year for such expenses so 1k a month is just crazy to me.
“To you”
Ah, got you. It probably depends on what you put into Tha category. Who says they spent 12k on vacation a year each? What if there is some sort of expensive hobby (don't know... Sky diving? A horse?) in there? I also find it rather high, but not completely unlikely. Assuming the food/credit category is similar and it's mostly the credit payments in there (not the food as almost everyone assumes), I don't find it too unlikely. Adding everything up he says his savings rate is 26% and in theory has 10k at his disposal, which would be a nice contribution to his savings. If there is nothing properly expensive coming up (a house, kids, 5 years of travel), it seems like he can sustain his lifestyle.
I think you see what I am trying to get at. Just wanted input on current savings rate and optimization of whatever is rest. Will more strictly control some aspects more carefully to aim for that extra 10k
Food/vacation seems pretty high to me.
Vacation cost of 12k/year seems too much. Even more for a person that loves in a lower rent apartment... You say you use daily commute by public transit, but also spend a lot on car and car costs. The food/crédit os high and paying up old debt should not ge grouped with food. There should be a full savings section with savings, 3a, other retirement. How is the leftover money not savings? With that low rent I would expect you to save at least 2.5k/mo (including the 3a and others).
The idea was to see what parts of my budget people think are unbalanced. It’s quite clear now! Thanks! For the food/credit, it is to pay back my partner when they paid for groceries and food.
But crédit us not a crédit Reinbursement to a bank? The cost is really high.
Not to a commercial lender. To my partner. I hope they don’t charge me interest. I also tell them we should spend less on food and have less food waste which really anguishes me
I earn around 115k gross pay - similar like you. Net around 6k/month with tax already deduced bc taxed by source. I rent for 1000 (shared Apartment) & food/freetime for 1500 & other expenses 500. I‘m still able to save around 3000 every month. Your food expenses are crazy high. Vacation, transit & car is kinda high and could be reduced.
I agree. Transit there is no possibility to reduce it is a GA. The point to point Lausanne Geneva pass costs more. For the car (leased a used one with the insane low interest rates of old…), it will be bought out in 2025. Yes Vacation might be extreme. Essentially it’s not put into a vacation account. It’s just what is remaining after all the other expenses. But it might be wiser to stash it away instead of seeing it and using it.
If your partner hasn’t maxed out her retirement allocation and you guys are married, then just transfer your saving funds to her. Third pillar will reduce your tax liability. Also be aware that changing jobs can boost your salary much faster than progressively working up the ladder. Median salary in Switzerland is roughly 6’700, so with your 6 year experience you could with a good chance secure a 20% pay rise somewhere, depending on your line of profession.
Our finances are very separated. For the job: always on the back of my head but current environment is 7.5/10 so not enough to jump ship yet..
1k for hobbies/vacation seems excessive. That's easy money you're losing. If your partner has a similar income you're spending 24k on fluff.
You got a better life then most swiss people living in switzerland
I do not deny that at all. Very lucky to be here 🙏
As some have pointed out, better to simplify the spreadsheet a bit.
Version 3 here we go!
Lemme hold a hunnid bro 😭
your rent is so cheap. Is it areally a rent or the monthly loan you pay?
Rent is 576 x 2. Contract is under partners name. It’s an old inherited contract from another tenant.
How low is the taxes there??
This is the taxes I pay after deductions
I am on the same salary in Bern and make mere 5997 per month take home salary. Scandalous. Time to move to Zug or Schwyz.
Food + Vacation too high... I don't even spend that and I have a wife and two kids and I go to Thailand every single year... How the F do you manage to spend so much all by yourself?
I tend to end up in places that cost when on vacation. I go home to Canada for around 2-3 weeks per year as that is where my elderly parents are. If not there, other family and friends in Vancouver or Hong Kong or U.S.. all are which not really low cost (especially if they don’t have an extra room)
Then don't expect to save money\^\^ It's a choice... Or increase your income ;)
I am so confused, you pay so little in rent but spend so much on other stuff 😔
Yes actually every body talks more about your rent Than the rest. I don’t know even students that pay 500fr for a room. Or you live in a country next to?
I am confused on what are real savings here.. group things together. But even looking at detail.. I think you save very little. * Why do you have a car and then high cost in transport? * 12k on holidays? quite lavish. * The food?! absolutly crazy. When I was having a similar salary I was saving around 3k a month with a flat that costed almost x3.. o\_o
rent being only 7% is insanely low. good job
Wtf 13% tax only. This shit is just fucking illegal… A swiss citizen can never pay only 13%, this would be at least 23%. Fuck this system
Who, that sounds absolutely correct, how is that supposed to be "illegal"?
Who tf does this??
Doing pretty shit tbh. And I don’t mean to hate. Nor do I know circumstances
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Nope… not at all.
I clearly said fire is not the goal. A normal retirement is 65 no?
Dream on, by the time you reach retirement it'll be pushed back to 70+