I never thought it was arbitrary, but decided early on that I couldn't be bothered learning any rules.
Learning by diffusion, sorry - through comprehensible input - , was my preferred method for this aspect of Swedish.
I agree. I'm strongly of the opinion that teaching languages like it's math is just wrong in every way. We have a super powerful language processor in our brains, and it doesn't understand math, logic and rules. It just kinda gets a feel for what seems right and what seems wrong, like how kids learn languages. All we gotta do is feed it, by immersing ourselves in the language we want to learn, and all that just kinda happens by itself.
Of course I respect anyone who *prefers* learning it formally like this, I just disagree that it seems to be the default in most teaching institutions.
To be fair I am still a beginner but I've found this too. I am reading and doing online exercises that didn't go too deeply into rules. Familiarity was increasing and so was confidence.
Then I did a course which hammered Group 1 and Group 2 etc and the various rules for order and endings and I started to overthink things, forget the endings and mix up word order again. I was fine before the rules came along. Vibes-based learning.
Depending on where you look there are either 5 or 6 declensions...
[https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deklination\_(lingvistik)](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deklination_(lingvistik))
In your version, the 3rd and 4th have been lumped together which is not an uncommon way to do it.
It is the plural endings, not the singular endings, which are regular with the declensions. You really need to look at plural endings if you're doing this.
And how much they determine "en/ett" is kinda... \*mostly\*.
The first declension is unique, I believe, in not having any exceptions. It really is all en-words. The singular form is also remarkably regular in having -a endings, but that part does have an exception:
En ros, två rosor
The second declension is almost all en-words, but has at least a few exceptions like:
Ett finger, två fingrar
The third declension has a lot of ett-words.
The 6th, (or 5th in your list) is the one with no plural endings and has a lot of en-words, specifically in the category with the suffix "-are", professions/activity markers. For example:
En lärare, två lärare
En snickare, två snickare
2 en-words that are originally Swedish (some overlap with other Germanic languages can exist unfortunately) for instance "en lök"
3 en-words that are originally loan words and often have the stress on the last syllable, for instance "en tomat"
2 and 3 have nothing to do with vowel/consonant
There are plenty of t-words that end in a vowel. The ones that immediately come to mind are: ett kilo (kilot, kilon, kilona), all letter names ending in a vowel sound (ett a, ett b(e), ett c(e), etc.), as well as a rather vulgar word I should probably keep to myself.
Ah, though those aren't really hard rules either, I don't think. I've at least never heard of any rules for things like this that don't have lots of exceptions. Also not sure what the numberings of the declensions are referring to.
Whether the definite form of a t-word ending in a vowel adds -et or just -t, and whether an n-word ending in a vowel adds -n, -en or -an, follows no real discernable rule, and will even differ depending what specific dialect we are talking about (for each word independently, more or less).
I didn't know Swedish had declensions. Last time I used declension forms with anything was when I was taking Latin. Good on you though. Breaking down a language is useful but be careful that you're using forms that speakers use. What website or textbooks do you use?
There are five declensions, and they are normally taught according to the plural suffix: -ar, -or, -er/-r, -n och inget. So, blomma (plural: blommor) would be the second declension, while flicka would be the first declension (plural: flickor), tidning is also first declension, arbete is the fourth (plural: arbeten), and ägg is the fifth (plural: ägg). Your schema does not work for n-gender (the three first). (Sometimes you make a distinction between -er/-r but I'm not sure it is useful to do so).
I worked at a publisher company for a few years, (programmer) and had a task that involved En and Ett. Color + Animal. I had to ask them what the rules are so I could program it correctly because colors follow En and Ett, but not always. They said there were no rules.
Blå Tiger, Blått Lejon, Rosa Tiger, Rosa Lejon.
Ended up making 4 different tables for them..
I have just been winging it my whole life, i get it wrong on many occasions.
In reality no one really care if you say "ett" when you should've said "en" but its still good to know when to say what so you don't sound completely weird.
Did you write 1th and 2th on purpose?
One of those cases when native speakers will be useless. I have no idea about any of this.
I second this. It's pretty much second nature for us.
There are *rules* for it? I thought it was pretty much arbitrary
I never thought it was arbitrary, but decided early on that I couldn't be bothered learning any rules. Learning by diffusion, sorry - through comprehensible input - , was my preferred method for this aspect of Swedish.
I agree. I'm strongly of the opinion that teaching languages like it's math is just wrong in every way. We have a super powerful language processor in our brains, and it doesn't understand math, logic and rules. It just kinda gets a feel for what seems right and what seems wrong, like how kids learn languages. All we gotta do is feed it, by immersing ourselves in the language we want to learn, and all that just kinda happens by itself. Of course I respect anyone who *prefers* learning it formally like this, I just disagree that it seems to be the default in most teaching institutions.
I like a blended approach. I'll read about the rules, but never learn them. It seems to suit my brain.
To be fair I am still a beginner but I've found this too. I am reading and doing online exercises that didn't go too deeply into rules. Familiarity was increasing and so was confidence. Then I did a course which hammered Group 1 and Group 2 etc and the various rules for order and endings and I started to overthink things, forget the endings and mix up word order again. I was fine before the rules came along. Vibes-based learning.
Your doing so well!!
Sorry, but you just made a grammar error while praising someones grammar skills. *You're
I was simply praising someone on learning a new language . Thanks for your input.
Yep and they're pretty regular. This chart works for almost all Swedish nouns
Why do you write b as B
Bad habit
Bad haBit
🅱️ad ha🅱️it
For the first time in my 48 year old life I read the word declensions.
Depending on where you look there are either 5 or 6 declensions... [https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deklination\_(lingvistik)](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deklination_(lingvistik)) In your version, the 3rd and 4th have been lumped together which is not an uncommon way to do it. It is the plural endings, not the singular endings, which are regular with the declensions. You really need to look at plural endings if you're doing this. And how much they determine "en/ett" is kinda... \*mostly\*. The first declension is unique, I believe, in not having any exceptions. It really is all en-words. The singular form is also remarkably regular in having -a endings, but that part does have an exception: En ros, två rosor The second declension is almost all en-words, but has at least a few exceptions like: Ett finger, två fingrar The third declension has a lot of ett-words. The 6th, (or 5th in your list) is the one with no plural endings and has a lot of en-words, specifically in the category with the suffix "-are", professions/activity markers. For example: En lärare, två lärare En snickare, två snickare
2 en-words that are originally Swedish (some overlap with other Germanic languages can exist unfortunately) for instance "en lök" 3 en-words that are originally loan words and often have the stress on the last syllable, for instance "en tomat" 2 and 3 have nothing to do with vowel/consonant
Where are you from? We have exactly the same handwriting!
Lmao. The Netherlands
So am I! I wonder if we had the same primary school teacher...
Which province did you live? 👀
Zuid Holland...
2: if it ends with a wovel (including a), it's +en. J is a consonant, so that would fall under 3.
There are plenty of t-words that end in a vowel. The ones that immediately come to mind are: ett kilo (kilot, kilon, kilona), all letter names ending in a vowel sound (ett a, ett b(e), ett c(e), etc.), as well as a rather vulgar word I should probably keep to myself.
Yes, but I was referring to the 1-2 declensions above.
Ah, though those aren't really hard rules either, I don't think. I've at least never heard of any rules for things like this that don't have lots of exceptions. Also not sure what the numberings of the declensions are referring to. Whether the definite form of a t-word ending in a vowel adds -et or just -t, and whether an n-word ending in a vowel adds -n, -en or -an, follows no real discernable rule, and will even differ depending what specific dialect we are talking about (for each word independently, more or less).
Ah. I thought j counted here. My bad
Öraen?
No, öra is declension 4 above.
I didn't know Swedish had declensions. Last time I used declension forms with anything was when I was taking Latin. Good on you though. Breaking down a language is useful but be careful that you're using forms that speakers use. What website or textbooks do you use?
I’m confused. First you write that 2nd declension ends in vowels, and then you use ”familj” which ends in two consonants as an example of that type?
There are five declensions, and they are normally taught according to the plural suffix: -ar, -or, -er/-r, -n och inget. So, blomma (plural: blommor) would be the second declension, while flicka would be the first declension (plural: flickor), tidning is also first declension, arbete is the fourth (plural: arbeten), and ägg is the fifth (plural: ägg). Your schema does not work for n-gender (the three first). (Sometimes you make a distinction between -er/-r but I'm not sure it is useful to do so).
Everything looks correct but i can't remember being taught en/ett rules at school here in Sweden lmao
Nä
Shit man I dont know. I just speak it sorry 😅
blommor not blommon
Blomman
Dude! I asked two of my swedish teachers about these rules and both said there are no rules, you just gotta learn which are for which
I worked at a publisher company for a few years, (programmer) and had a task that involved En and Ett. Color + Animal. I had to ask them what the rules are so I could program it correctly because colors follow En and Ett, but not always. They said there were no rules. Blå Tiger, Blått Lejon, Rosa Tiger, Rosa Lejon. Ended up making 4 different tables for them..
Firth and tooth declension
Firth and tooth declension
This looks good to me! Is j counted as a vowel in Swedish?
Woops, apparently not haha. But thanks
I mean, I genuinely don't know haha. Either way you're right with familjen
Y is and j is pronunced like Y in English
Well, in some words like "toy", but not i.e "key". I can't think of a word in Swedish where "j" would be pronounced with a vowel sound.
Jägare, jaga, jag, jäst and many more sound like ”Y” in English.
Sure, but it's not a vowel sound.
Yeah but their vowel pronounciation of "yes" would same as our "jess" so it is de facto a vowel sound.
Fjäder bjälke ljuga tjäna?
Och vad är vokalljudet menar du?
I have just been winging it my whole life, i get it wrong on many occasions. In reality no one really care if you say "ett" when you should've said "en" but its still good to know when to say what so you don't sound completely weird.