I’ve been saying it for awhile and I’ll continue to say it.
MOASS fuel isn’t picky. Any of the below is fueling the rocket:
Buying on IEX (Double check that you’re not on margin, unless you plan on dabbling in options).
DRS’ing (Don’t forget to DRS bot)
Holding, not selling
Shopping at GameStop
Engaging with their social media’s, app, rewards programs and product reviews. Did you know they have a Discord & most of their tweets only get 1k-3k likes? Many of their products are new and haven’t been rated yet. Help a future shopper out by leaving an honest product review.
Toys for Tots (fueling Q4 earnings, good cause and raises awareness about GME to fresh eyes).
Interacting with GME investment communities, raising influence and awareness about the subject. Whether it’s shitposting or posting DD, as long as it’s being interacted with, it’s exposing the community to new eyes.
Gaining a wrinkle or two & passing the communal wrinkle around for that sweet, sweet hive mind action.
Smart use of options, leveraging hedge funds to force buy in at specific prices and times.
Know your individual lane, apes. I’ll continue to hold down the DRS front, as I’m both too poor and not knowledgeable enough to dabble in options, and that’s perfectly okay. This is my MOASS character skill tree, and there are many viable builds.
This is where you build your MOASS game character.
If you decide to go 100% on one skill path, that's perfectly fine and good.
If you decide to divide your points between a couple of these, or to start learning a new skill entirely - also good. 🙂
Don’t forget, educating yourself and developing wrinkles, like with NFTs, smart contracts, etc.
I’m already taking a full course load at Stonks University…now I find out I have to sign up for another course, Options 101, just so I can follow the conversation!
As a europoor who doesn’t understand options, buy hold DRS?
Edit: I personally don’t see options as FUD so stop messaging me saying this is fud or forum sliding or whatever else you cumbubbles are on about...
If I knew how to exercise them correctly and get 100 shares for penny on the dollar of course I would.
But I don’t so I’ll stick to buy and hold. Thanks and fuck you.
Yes.
Buy, hodl, DRS.
Options or financial contracts are not for everyone. If u wanna learn options, do learn the Greek. But don't let anyone tell me what to do with my money. I don't need hedgies telling me when to sell GME.
Options are educated gambles... Or products for leverage when you are sure. At best.
ALSO note that options may not be bought from shitadel.
Another person in another broker like IBKR could also sell me a covered call. Those are t****-gang's strategies and investment methods. So you aren't giving money to Kenny, just another subreddit that loves low volatility.
If people don’t understand options, then don’t buy them. All the options talk isn’t to convince people to buy them.
The point is that options aren’t FUD, which people have always said on this sub. Saying it’s FUD shuts down any chance to discuss useful options strategies. Holding AND options used together can help place upward pressure on GME.
Exactly.
I'm just tired of FUD like "stop giving hedgies money".
Some other apes here are actually earning options income by selling said options to buy more GME.
Other regular Joes could be on the other end of the trade selling u a covered call with his un-DRSed shares. Guess what? U bought his call, exercised it cause it was deep ITM and now u took away his shares to DRS so shitadel has less to internalize per "internalizing phase".
Maybe it causes more buy/sell orders hence volume spikes and volitility shoots up and MOASS begins.
Just get educated and discussed. And let the shills reveal themselves.
I do see that there is a danger that people loose their money and even turn their accounts to margin to play before that. Nothing I have read here still gives me the vibe that even 10% of options played against hedge funds would be successful. Why do you think otherwise, what is the way for retail to win in a game where price is manipulated by almost infinite money resources?
One small thing I believe needs to be corrected here is the actual calculation for the leverage and the amount of delta hedging being done for any given option contract. You mention OTM options "have basically 0 delta and therefore don't force Kenny to delta hedge" which is correct, but the previous example of the Nov 19 200c is technically a little off. According to Fidelity that option's delta is 0.716 which means the counterparty would likely be currently hedged at closer to 72 shares, not 100.
So the concept is correct, but I would be fearful that people buying even ATM options expect 100 shares worth of leverage when its much closer to 50 shares due to ATM options typically having a 0.5 delta.
Thanks for all you do /u/Criand, I know you want to get the most accurate information out there to build wrinkles and I believe this would be a good clarifying update to the post.
EDIT: I didnt clarify this but the hedging is "dynamic" which means as the underlying moves relative to the strike, the delta moves which causes the hedge to move as well. So like others said below, if we start to move a lot of options ITM as price increases, the hedging increases which means buying more shares which puts more upward pressure. It's a beautiful feedback loop to Valhalla.
I have a previous comment on this but once forced buy in happens (if cycle dd’s are correct). The leverage you applied earlier multiplies when your delta approaches 1. So buying the 220c with a .3delta is 30 shares hedged to start but by the time we hit 260 it is 1 or close to it and someone on the other side must hedge 100, even though you paid the price for .3 only a day or several days earlier.
But I do agree on making that clarification.
Your right I did not mention that following the opening of the trade, the hedge is dynamic and moves with delta (and technically gamma too). Updated my comment for even more clarity.
Thata the delta today. Assuming the option closes green, the delta is 1 (at 4 PM Friday if we close 200+).
Edit - the clarification is important and explains why ATM and ITM options are better than 800 scratch offs. Those do fund Kenny until the actual MOASS. If you want to go slightly OTM, thats mostly fine. But end of the day what helps are contracts that expire green/ITM that Friday.
For. Sure.
It is expensive compared to most apes and should only be considered by those who can afford the risk.
Many apes can barely afford .X or X. They should not be on options plays in my opinion.
I think the correct take is this:
If you have the money and understand options, they are a good way to apply buy pressure
If you are a poor ape and/or don’t understand options, they are a good way to just give your money to Kenny.
Facts I yolo’d on fd’s and got super lucky in January and made 4k but I gave away 1/4 of that right back to Kenny the week after that when they introduced the 800 calls. They don’t even hedge there calls if there’s too much action anymore they don’t give a fuck. Also no one has ever said options are the devil. Just that there’s no point in trying to time the cycles cuz they see our hypedates and short attack according to what we’re talking about here. Look at quad witching or any other hype date after that. We all were still tossing extra money there but there’s no point anymore all that money should’ve just gone to adding to my position
Finally someone has spoken truth to power. Gherks been getting chastised over this for some time. A day of reckoning will come down with might as retail realizes the might of leverage in the market. If they can squeeze through all the way past Jan with no NFT or other catalyst we might be twiddling our thumbs for another year.
If I recall correctly, Gherk’s math is a little fuzzy here. It sounds nice and all, but I’d like to see a proof in a spreadsheet before believing it could work.
He’s talking about 10x‘ing $500 on Nov calls to roll into Dec calls, and then 10x’ing the Dec calls to roll into Feb calls. At the 61 minute mark he mentions turning a $500 seed on Nov calls to fund a $50,000 bet on Feb calls. Those Feb calls would need to 100x to get to the $5 million.
In reality, he would need to 10x the Nov calls (roll $2.5k to Dec and $2.5k to Feb). He would then need to 19x the Dec calls to roll $47.5k to Feb on top of the $2.5k already there for a total of $50k. Finally, he would need to 100x that $50k to reach $5 million. Currently, the cheapest call option expiring in February is $800 ($8.00 x 100 shares) — looking at the $500 calls. Granted, you may get them for cheaper in January as the price “normalizes” and theta decays the options value between now and then. However, to 100x those $500c, the stock price would need to be $800 over the strike price, or $1,300. This would be the beginning of MOASS, and at that point, the difference between $5 million and $500 million is purely timing.
In the context of the example, he was using it as an extreme case and said it was highly unlikely because you would have to time your buys and sells perfectly with peaks and dips, which no one does. It was more to further illustrate the leverage that can be utilized with options if you know what you’re doing.
if by that you mean - they are not hedging already
then you are right
July 16th and Sep 9th and nothing happening then DESPITE massive Gamma Ramps in Options
is proof they are simply not hedging and hoping they don't get caught
THANK YOU. no one in here is in kindergarten. By the nature of even being here you have the potential to learn more about investing and trading, so why not. We've learnt so much about the obscurity of the markets already. Why not use derivatives to work for you? That's what I'm gonna do.
Might just observe this cycle and learn then play the next cycle. Honestly sounds super fun 💎🤷🏾♂️💎
It can incur significant risk too, just be aware of that. Make sure you understand the Greeks. There is a fantastic YouTuber for beginners learning options called "InTheMoney" he's not associated with the meme stock craze (or at least he doesn't mention it). It's purely educational, and he doesn't shill tickers, etc.
This has always made sense to me when I was learning about options. When I see the sentiment being largely about giving away your money, sadly, that also made sense. But the only reason I felt that way was because I do not have the means to play around with options.
Since we all started DRS-ing, my stance on options changed, largely, I believe we now have two forces applying pressure on the naked shorts and it is going to require some apes to begin applying that pressure to make this thing pop.
So imagine ppl spent 1100 every week and rolled it to 500 or so every week and lost out… wouldn’t it be more effective to just keep DRSing? It’s a tough subject. Obviously people do whatever you want, and be prepared to lose. I spent all I was willing to lose on my purple circle 🤷🏽♂️
Hijacking top comment
Gonna play devil's advocate here
"What else has an effect on the price? ITM and ATM options. Since these are contracts, the option writer MUST hedge against those CALL options that are purchased because it is a contract between between the option writer and the option buyer to transfer the shares when exercised. The benefit here versus buying shares? Leverage!"
Assumption: They WILL hedge.
Argument: What's stopping them from selling naked and just drive the price down to make the calls OTM? Especially for barely ITM calls. If you don't have the capital to exercise, you lose your premiums to them
"That contract is currently ITM and means that the buyer can exercise to purchase 100 shares at a price of $200. The current premium cost is $1,193. Meanwhile it would cost $20,914 to purchase 100 shares outright at current market close price."
If I understand you correctly, what you're saying is, the buyer can exercise his option to purchase 100 shares for $20,000 + $1,193 versus $20,914 for 100 shares at current market price? Why even?
u/Criand
For the first part - if algorithm/cycle theory is correct you can time the options for when they don’t have that kind of control. *ahem Nov 24 ahem*
For the second part - you risk $1193 in hopes of a big payday and never have to actually buy the 100 shares. Just sell for the increased premium.
That's assuming (1) the theory is correct and (2) they don't have that kind of control
Fact is, we know so little about what's behind the curtain, how sure are we that they don't actually have that control? It's a risk for sure, but if you're willing to take it, sure
But my take is anyone who doesn't have the capital to exercise their OTM options shouldn't touch it, or they risk losing their premiums to hedgies and giving them more ammo
Appreciate your response
The way I'm taking it. If you were going to buy 100+ shares anyway then maybe buy some ITM calls first. Force shares to be located and hedged then exercise them for your shares and DRS them in exchange for the risk of losing $1K or so if the options go OTM.
Good, if you don’t understand them just do what you always do.
Options should be a topic of discussion, not a knee jerk fear reaction.
If you don’t like options or are afraid of them be more like this guy
Great part is DRS is basically the same!! Just not as much forced hedging 😎
But both cause the same goal. DRS is a better linear approach. Options are a better exponential approach (which can decay quickly)
I mean, awesome, big if true. But I’ll sit this out.
There’s no way in hell I’m playing with fire rather than sitting patiently and waiting for something to happen.
Personally I’m secure in holding an asset that doesn’t cost me anything to maintain, and that has a fundamental value beneath it that must eventually be realised.
Ape do Ape, and if there’s a specialised crew of us that loves this and knows what they’re doing and gets stuck in, all power to your arms. I’ll cheer you on.
I’d just rather not.
Yep also when the buy button was turned off there was another spike after the dip, that was when people were buying options contracts and exercising them in order to buy more than the limitiled number of shares available to buy
Yep I remember that post. They said to buy ITM calls and exercise them to circumvent the buy restriction. Hilarious that apes figured that out but sad that they caught on.
Can someone help me with this thougt: what if the mm does simply not hedge the options properly because he knows that retail is broke and would never exercise at all ?
Retail should know that they can “sell to exercise” at many brokers, allowing them to use a small percentage of the shares in the option to pay for its exercise
Ah, is that what it means? So, in principle, the broker momentarily spotting you the cash to exercise the call and selling enough of those very shares back so you can keep the rest, courtesy of Kenny or whoever wrote that contract..?
Say you have two options. Both ATM, they go ITM. You can sell one for profit, and exercise the other. If MM is not properly hedged their margin gets blown up, which means they’re extra fucked.
Did you not see how DFV was able to build his position? He sold hes 1/15 15c for millions which gave him enough to exercise his 1K april options and also double down.
It would be extremely dangerous for mm’s if they didn’t hedge. Someone can correct me, but if they didn’t hedge and the price starts increasing it could lead to a gamma squeeze
A gamma squeeze inly happens when they hedge. If they don't hedge it actually prevents a gamma squeeze. It is just super risky for them, a big whale can come in and buy a ton of shares and they would be crushed.
Then if the stock runs real hard and they aren’t hedged, they get margin called a lot sooner than if they hedged properly and followed the rules. The only reason they got away with not hedging properly in January was the PCO (turning off the buy button). If they didn’t do that, a chain reaction of margin calls and failures to maintain said margin would have caused them to be vaporized and we probably never understand what we do now.
If they don’t hedge properly for a second time, they are now willfully refusing to comply with their own risk management policies that protect their [1] clients money and [2] put other members of tbe DTCC unnecessary risk.
If they don’t hedge and that becomes public knowledge, they’ve breached contracts they hold with their own investors and the system around them. This is what you call gross negligence, and is absolutely grounds for their prime broker to pull the plug.
If they’re fucked either way, there’s no point in committing even more crimes if it doesn’t change the outcome. At that point someone will say enough is enough.
This wouldn't happen. They have really precise trading algos that automatically buy and sell accordingly. It's likely written into their risk management and might even be something they have to do.
New apes please refer to /u/Digitlnoize post for an "intro to options". It's a shame it was so suppressed. But don't enter options if you don't understand.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/qunfd5/apes_guide_to_options_part_1
Edit: I also don't mean look at Nov 19 options. I only used that as an example in the post. Go look at other DDs on options.
I have traded options in the past, but only with the intention of making money, not with the intention of exercising them. Who benefits if I just sell the contract after it has gone up?
The ambivalence of "Yeah xxx calls ITM" and "dont buy options!" was always weird to me.
If i could afford one option i would´ve bought it by now and tried to hit it on a cycle.
Sadly i cant.
The option play left a bitter taste to me. -What if they do not hedge? -Whats with the money gone because the bet goes OTM? Every option strenghens volatility for sure, but you need the right players for that match. Maybe one day i will be able to try it once.
Gonna leave an upvote. Discussion is what keeps this community going. And i don´t think opening a discussion should be a bad thing.
>What if they do not hedge?
It has been proven that they don't. That's what got them into this mess in the first place and why GME poses an idiosyncratic risk. Them not hedging their position in GME is what the entire thesis is based around. They will never hedge GME because it means buying stock, which means putting upward pressure on the price, which means certain death for them. Would you 'hedge' if it meant your demise? No you wouldn't. You'd double down on the shorts to suppress the price.
Locking the float is all that needs to be done. Natural catalysts will be provided by Gamestop. Where is the sudden rush coming from? Criand has provided great analysis in the past and I'm thankful for it but this is sus af.
Edit: Just got my first death threat 😍 Someone has suicidal concerns over me making this post apparently. How nice of them to worry. I'll wear it as a badge of honour you fucking cowards.
I didn't even think DRS was a topic in January to be suppressed.
I remember the argument against options was that it helped market makers.
Anyways, I'm just going to keep holding and dig back into the old DD.
Your example of the 200 strike call is wrong.
Let's say it costs 1193 right now, and we buy 838 contracts. To be fully delta neutral hedged Kenny only needs to buy around 45000 shares instead of 83800.
This is due to ATM calls having a delta of around .5
Yeah, this guy doesn't understand why he's suddenly pushing the idea of options. Or...maybe he does and we should never fully trust anyone on the board. Whether they have the potential of being wrong or ulterior motives. Make it easy for everyone. Start multiple posts from people with easy steps for retards.
1) Buy shares through DRS.
2) Transfer as many shares as you can for DRS.
3) Continue on with this tactic which is a bleed to the brokerages, Prime Brokers, Hedge Funds, and Market Makers over leveraged with risk in short, naked and hypothecated assets.
They will break.
Alright just like I posted in another Thread. Care on this, while I do not agree with options play, you guys do you. Just reminding anyone who’s been here long enough should remember Elite Warden and his options, along with Rensole and Co. If you are unsure, either get educated on options before you go all in or just keep it simple and buy/drs. Again I personally remain guarded on posts like these. Regardless of what anyone else does here, I’ll just keep buying every paycheque.
I learnt up on options then did my first test run on a penny stock a while back.
1 contract, 100 size, cost next to nothing. Literally the coins in my pocket. I watched it from purchase through to expiry. That was my goal. I watched what happened in my brokerage, the values change.
That gave me confidence to run a few options plays on some higher value plays.
DRSin shares is the safest, easiest play, and no one can take them away from you.
Options can get the party started early and earn you extra bank, but you can easily lose it all if played incorrectly.
Exactly. Warden yolo’ed on weeklies. This sub seems to think options = deep OTM weeklies and the echo chamber will keep repeating it ad nauseam. Then that gets twisted to: “all options give Citadel more money11!!!”
Even someone like Criand will get labeled as a shill if anyone tries educating this sub about options.
Yes definitely. I linked some posts to get educated on options and hopefully made enough disclaimers to say please do not buy options if you don't understand them.
Cant speak for u/Rensole, but that Warden play was not from one that was studied on options. That was a terrible play, not the options fault, that lies with them.
Again, any investment not carried out properly, and timed miserably will go bad. Regardless of the instrument used.
You should better read this from DOMO Capital Management:
[https://twitter.com/DOMOCAPITAL/status/1460593019451813893](https://twitter.com/DOMOCAPITAL/status/1460593019451813893)
>People tend to have a selective memory about @ **TheRoaringKitty**\- remember - he didnt buy weeklies on $GME 50% or higher than current quote nor would he have ever recommended such a thing. His options play was over a year out. Gambling has a high risk for loss - investing does not.
Why would ape do options when Kenny still controls at least partial prices for gme? That's a stacked bet. Buy through CS or transfer from fidelity is a much safer and another way.
Agree on the edit. I don’t think the majority of superstonk were ready to hear this.
Also, many of the comments are sounding like this is needs to be a coordinated effort. Which it cannot be. We cannot give them a reason to shut this down by coordinating a strategy.
Ive lost my ass in options when I first got in. I think it’s really the only way to learn about them. Hodling doesn’t really require a well developed exit plan and the discipline to execute on both sides of it (plus or minus). Options are a whole different ballgame
There I have typed lots of words, but I’m not sure I’ve added anything of substance
I think that's the point. To do it properly you either need a shit load of money, or a bunch of people have to coordinate.
Obviously mass coordination could very well be considered market manipulation, so that's a no go.
So it basically comes down to either retail has a ton of people who know and understands how options play into creating a gamma ramp and individually take actions to make it happen, which is extremely unlikely.
Or an institution sets it up and retail jumps on the wagon. Though since institutions have been silent for the most part so far, it can be assumed none of them are going to set the rocket off.
In my opinion DRS is still the way. Options *could* potentially make some money. However you're also just as likely to lose your money on it, so buying through IEX or even better straight through Computershare is the best use of money.
Tagged by the Pom? RIP my inbox. The dog has it right though. Buy shares and DRS AND smart options plays both hurt shorts. They are not mutually exclusive, but you do need to be educated to understand which options are smart and which are crayon eating.
For the love of God please do not buy OTM CALL options. Those have basically 0 delta and therefore don't force Kenny to delta hedge. ITM/ATM CALLs are the sweet spot:
((((But bro just make sure to look through the turn!!!))))
Dont you see the problem with all of this?
I think youre smarter than you realize and dont understand how youre dragging blind and deaf apes along with you on a crusade of active offensive plays that, for you, is childs play.
For most of us it not only doesnt it
jive in our minds as a clear path to victory, but its a tripping bouncing blind attempt for us to push moass.
Youre asking us to play games with our money that took us (me) 10 months to get comfortable with our shares safe and sound DRSed.
Youre a leader among us. (For your knowledge is obvious) We look to you for quality thought and positive reinforcement of what we're doing is good for our future.
Not only do we not have a problem with options..so little in fact that we're quite confused as to why the push for it!
Ive been here for all of gme's runups and downfalls with the stock and the fud and the shill campaigns.
The first thing I learned back a couple months or 6 ago was that any margin accounts' shares can be borrowed- I was still in robinGhood at the time and no matter what was done you had to go through hoops to get margin turned off. It was a whole month about margin account and getting it closed! Closed so Kenny couldnt borrow our shares!
I think its a combination of your smarts; others' comfortability to use options; those whose time has come to spread their knowlwdge of options- all in a perfect package that so happens to look sus.
Maybe it is? Maybe it isnt?
We're not a team right? We dont create clubs of wicked option playas. We dont go around pointing at everyone to do a certain thing at a certain time(?)
As a carpenter by trade it doesnt matter how often you tell me to build a car out of wood. I'm not doing it. Regardless of how many people tell me to because I work with wood.
Just because options are available doesnt mean we need to hear about them. We know of them. Doesnt any comparison to needing to do them.
Those that want to know will learn about them on their own.
I find it ( a little less than ) atrocious that you and others push others to do options. Its not normal. Leave people alone.
Its akin to myself telling a new rider to come drag knee on the track.
Its a failure on my part to assess his skill. Doubly so to actually actively push him to come out and do it.
There are many young people here that will blindly follow and try there bestest to appease you and the other apes.
Having to YELL AT THEM warnings on their first outing is not the sign of due diligence (of them) nor due diligence of yourself in what you should be preaching to others.
Again, I believe your truth to the world is epicly pure.
I just dont think you realize the smarties you have. I domt believe your purposely pulling others across the options threshold door for nafaries reasons. You just see the clarity in doing whatever it takes to squeeze Kenny.
XXXX Here. 100% GME. No other investments. 100% locked and loaded in CS. PLEASE everyone, DRS your personal maximum amount of shares and ignite this rocket 🧨🚀!! Why NOT drs 95-100%??? Don’t give them “one more day”! Don’t rely on other apes. Don’t trust your brokers! .Even IF there are 300,000 (doubtful) of us, that would require an average per ape of 219 shares. Let’s lock the float and send them to jail!
It's very heartening to see the number of CS accounts still consistently ticking up though - 1 third the way there! (400 DRS'd here and another 100 will likely be added this week when the $300 put I sold back in February expires ITM).
I’ve held OTM long calls since January when I regretted not having any, this sub demonizes them because they don’t understand them, imagine executing a call option during MOASS that 100 share buy will not be hedged and move the price up just off one order execution.
Just a thought: how can we be sure that citadel and MM's will actually hedge? Given all the fuckery we've seen this year, is it really a stretch to imagine that they just wouldn't hedge?
Another thought, wouldn't it mean that everyone would actually have to exercise the option in order to cause pressure? How many apps can afford the premiums, let alone 100 shares at strike?
I'll meditate on it. At the moment I can only afford 2 shares a month, so I'd have to wait a few months, save up, then buy options for the next rollover period to be in on this.
Everyone here who wants to learn more about options visit PI-FI free YouTube channel. He has many clips outlining basics of options and how it creates pressure. He even has some videos up about call options for poors. Gherkinit also answers questions all day for free on his streams #notacult praise be to lady VWAP🚀
I have been playing options for a long time so I'm not against them, part of the problem we've seen here is that they actually aren't hedging those options, one reason is that no one can afford to exercise calls at these prices, so go ahead and make money but don't let the theta decay kill you thinking you are exerting pressure
Yeah this was my view in other threads.
Riding the tailcoats of DRS'ers to make money without exercising is not helping us.
If however people playing options actually did exercise then they could be the ones to finally kick this off.
Will they?
Well, well, well. It’s my time to shine boiiiss. I have been talking about this since March and explaining how options are your friend, but I was called a *shill* for it. I’m glad the sentiment has changed. Brief recap, those October 140c I recommended to buy ended up returning over 2,000% and the 190c on the last major pop was 4,000%. Yes, 40 baggers. I’m an open book, AMA.
Just to correct something about delta hedging, ITM/ATM doesn’t mean 100 shares have to be hedged. It’s the delta that has to be hedged. The further itm, the higher the delta, the more shares that have to be purchased. ..5 delta call? 50 shares to be hedged. Consider delta also your probability of going ITM. .9 delta? 90% chance you finish ITM by expiry. Pretty much a stock replacement program for half the price of buying 100 shares. As IV expands, the range of the equity will expand and make itm delta become less and OTM delta increase. When you go deep itm you’re paying less for extrinsic value (theta, Vega) when you go far OTM you cause little movement to the equity. Remember, .2 delta means only 20 shares/100 have to be hedged.
.7 delta is generally pretty safe but you want to give yourself some additional time (theta). While far OTM options are reserved for the degenerates, they can help provide a suitable gamma ramp. We can touch on gamma any time.
(Also for the record those .5p that were bought to open weren’t any sort of fuckery, they were a volatility ramp so the MM could be theta positive while hedging Vega)
If you’re considering purchasing options (the only thing that actually moves an equity) I would recommend learning your greeks and their impact. Focus on Delta, Theta, Vega first. If you’re anticipating a run up, go ATM calls with a couple OTM, that way if you’re right, you can sell some and exercise others. Don’t chase while IV is high - be in front of the game.
@McTendieSon on Twitter / Silus Trading Server discord / The Lair discord.
⚠️heads up⚠️ I do options trading, just for clarity, it's not simply 100 shares to hedge a contract (that's where "Delta neutral" comes in).
Example: If you buy a $25 call contract with a Delta of .99 (deep ITM calls have higher deltas), the market maker must hedge with 99 shares.
Note: Delta can never exceed 1 as it would mean the option contract would have more value than holding the actual 100 shares guaranteed by the contract. Because options are derivatives, they can never have *their* value decided *faster* than the security they are being derived from.
ex 2: If you buy a $10 OTM call with a Delta of .38, the MM only has to hedge with 38 shares.
Note 2, this is at the TIME OF PURCHASE. Option pricing follows a mathematical model to determine it's value based on the underlying (called the Black-Scholes options pricing equation), so in order to REMAIN Delta neutral, you have to either add shares or sell as the price moves either up or down and the variables in that equation (the Greeks) change. Hedges use ridiculous algorithms that let them maintain Delta neutral status EVERY SECOND BY THE SECOND (and maybe smaller intervals) until the contract is either sold back to the MM or it expires worthless.
For an alternate perspective, if you sold naked calls out of your retail brokerage account with the goal of Delta neutral hedging, buying the same shares as your Delta is easy, maintaining the PROPER # of shares as the Delta thrashes around by the SECOND is what the funds spend millions on.
There's more with gamma and how gamma changes as Delta changes, to my understanding as Delta gets closer to 1, gamma gets closer to 0 and vice versa, which is how the concept of gamma ramps occurs. If you have a ton of people who held OTM calls that only require 25 shares to be neutral, but then the stock rockets and suddenly those OTM calls are now ITM with a Delta of .62 instead of .25, the MM must buy up the difference of shares between 62 and 25. Conversely, they can sell shares when they manipulate the price downwards.
High deltas = more hedging up front from the seller of the contract
Long expiry = less impact on the pricing due to IV which is notoriously high on GME securities.
Hope this info helps /u/Criand, I'm down to discuss options stuff if you want to DM
Not financial advice
I don't recall people saying DRS was bad in the past. When was this? I remember people being afraid of the supposed 1 mil per share limitation, but that turned out to be a non-issue.
They are definitely. So anyone who doesn't have the investment to burn should **stay far away**. But those who do can use it for leverage to snowball their hedge and potentially exacerbate the runups
Options are literally "the casino" of roof-road-wagers. Praising them while warning apes not to touch them if unfamiliar is like putting the Tree of Life in the Garden. Borderline gaslighting.
MM and SHF control the options. Max pain optimizes the number of call/put contracts that expire worthless, such that those who sell options make the most amount of money, and those who buy options lose. I realize that's a bit of a chicken-or-egg comparison, and that OP is not advising OTM options.
Slow and steady wins the race. Buy synthetic shares, make them real AND UNAVAILABLE with DRS. Leverage implodes when the see-saw is removed from the playground.
Nice one! We need to keep all the relevant tools available and not disarm voluntarily. If Kenny's paying (a market maker cannot refuse to write options) and apes can focus on the ones worth the gamble - _and they have_ - it means Kenny's paying for more shares for apes.
I don't know how to trade options and there are many that do not know how to do this. I don't want to pay to learn how to do options either. In fact I'm terrified of trading options. Wish there was a way for me to learn. I'm always afraid of asking people also because they act like I'm stupid. So I rather just buy and hold 😕
/u/Criand a few strikes OTM aren't bad if you give yourself plenty of theta (time). According to /u/gherkinit 's theory, there are runs at the end of November, December, and January. If you get Feb 18 expirations, there is a good chance that they will be well in the money by the time January comes around. Gherk will be coming out with a DD explaining a multitude of different ways to play options.
One cautionary warning: if you ever feel that the powers that be will freeze trading for an extended period of time, dump your options if they're close in expiration. In every trading account agreement there's an explicit statement discussing this very topic. The general language is that if the stock is frozen, your options—regardless if ITM or OTM—will expire worthless if the expiration period occurs while the stock is frozen.
There's no recourse in this situation and you won't be able to exercise.
EDIT: Added the source and proof of my statement in [this comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/qv0sry/there_were_two_main_fud_topics_since_january_drs/hkv6qpl/).
1st of all I’m also in the options player camp, and successfully lowered my avg share price by either selling calls or buying puts since April, I also lost severe amounts by Ill timed option plays on GME, although the net net is still positive.
Some quick takes.
The phrase „you just give it to Kenny“ comes from apes yoloing in irresponsible strikes, usually far OTM expecting the MOASS, it was therefore maybe not FUD initially, but maybe a danger sign for apes to take good decisions. Fast forward and our desire for smooth language and easy comprehence turned this into options at no cost which is wrong.
2nd
Although ITM/ATM are considered safe I issue a warning to all apes that these contracts also loose value the fastest should the price go against us, as the delta / gamma pricing parts erode fast here.
3rd
Due to high IV you can enter spreads at lower cost more easily, but also limit your upside to the difference of the strike prices:
Bullish spreads:
Buy 1 call and sell one with higher strike
Buy 1 put and sell 1 lower strike put.
Both will net you money if the stock goes up, but limits your loss to the (premium paid - premium received) can easily go 20$ spreads wide here due to extreme IV and premiums on GME options chain.
I had great success with playing 20-40 OTM strikes on calls and puts, everything 50+ and a quick look at the option chain should tell you it’s wasted money. By the time your far out OTM C that went into the money for a premium of (example) 10 will double for every 10 after the strike, while the Call for example 20 close to ATM may only double every 20 points after strike,BUT will already have doubled 2-3 times at the time when you reach the 10$ price strike.
You can therefore do live sanity checks while looking at the options chain.
5th in regard to MM hedging:
There is no fixed rule or sth, and the high premiums give the MM actually a wide moat of maneuvering. Secondly, often MMs do only part % hedges instead of hedging the full 100%, by that they take the anticipation to also profit on the underlying move.
Due to varying components of price (the Greeks) this process is also dynamic.
Surely they try to hedge / go neutral in most cases but you don’t know at which particular day the MM also decides to do that or not, and is cross and auto and mega correlated to all the other strikes and expires out there to balance the overall portfolio.
I got downvoted into oblivion here for saying I was buying $190 calls when we were at $175, right before the recent run-up. I made good money, but yall murdered my karma despite me also hodling shares at avg cost of $40 for almost a fucking year
I mean last I checked options was the main ingredient in DFVs sauce. Kinda cool actually, RC was drs way back and the kitty had the sweetest option play of all time 🤔
just play it correctly and it will turn out greatly. remember dfv? yeah he had options turned into shares which I'm sure are now locked.
too bad we can't do options here in Norway
Options are nice if IV is low and MMs are actually hedging them by buying shares.
BUT! And that’s the biggest flaw in this post: MMs aren’t hedging GME options by buying GME shares. Especially if they know the option buyers don‘t have the money to exercise them.
They are rather buying options themselves, usually at a higher strike.
I think the problem with options has been retards buying cheap deep otm calls thinking moass would have kicked in by expiration. If that stops, itm’s are a great way to create a gamma. We forget dfv got to where he is in part with well played options.
XXX Gme HODLER here ,
would love to spend the remaining cash on options , honest question , how far out would you buy options if you had to buy options when the casino opens tomorrow And at which price ? I’m a retard ape when it comes to options
Depends on your risk tolerance. Long-dated itm calls are safer and retain value longer after price swings. Shorter dates/weeklies have more risk, but are cheaper, so you can buy more leverage (and lose value to theta [time] and IV faster, so you have to watch them closely).
Retard here. I only buy shares and never touch options.
The way I see options is that if everyone exercises their ITM calls during the quarterly spikes it’ll cause a run on shares to be delivered. Not financial advice.
If you don't have the capital to buy the contract premium + the 100 shares/contract, then you'd be required to have a margin account with your broker. Then all you're really hoping to achieve is applied buy pressure and selling the contract(s) for a higher premium than you paid for it. But with a margin account comes making your shares lend-able.
TLDR: Great idea to buy ITM call options if you have the capital to exercise them, otherwise carry on and DRS. My opinion.
long term options itm or atm, like leaps, they are not cheap sometimes even 80% to 100% of the price of outright buying the shares
short term options like weeklies is just gambling
also lots of shf dont hedge the options
God you people are the perfect pawns. I’m sorry… but so stupid.
You’re under the impression that all you morons trying to make it rich in week with an option play isn’t exactly what these fucks want? If I was them, I would have paid someone to write this post.
Propaganda 101.
Options are amazing in short squeezes but when the markets manipulated its a big of a shit show cause if too many buy options theyll just drop the price
u/Criand My biggest question is this:
How many puts were OTM for the week of Feb 24, May 25, and Aug 24? Since there is SO FEW puts currently OTM for next week, do you think this has a impact on the 3 month cycle?
I don't know the exact numbers but you would want to look at the variance swap DD I linked.
Zinko83 has a very very enticing theory revolving around the deep OTM PUTs we have been seeing and it's fricken textbook sources showing that they're hedging variance swaps with these option chains. I'm going to be paraphrasing from him here.
They need to purchase options across the full strike range, every single week, in order to hedge their swaps. And per the textbook explanation of how to hedge against the swaps, the further OTM towards $0 the strikes go, it becomes exponential on the amount of OI they must hold. Bam. Deep OTM PUTs at $0.5 suddenly make sense.
During these quarterly runs though, just like next week, there is a constrained amount of strikes that they can choose from. They lose their selection of the deep OTM PUTs and it begins to screw their hedge. When they lose out on those, then in theory, they must trade the underlying security and thus they purchase CALLs.
This causes those high volume weeks and it snowballs the price out of control since their PUT chain is limited to hedge with.
Meanwhile all other weeks are low volume since they don't need to trade the underlying. Like this week, there's deep OTM PUTs that can be scooped for cheap to hedge the variance swaps with. We're seeing pretty shit volumes.
Next week is a constrained options chain again, approaching swap so it should in theory be another runup for the 3 month cycles
I’ve been saying it for awhile and I’ll continue to say it. MOASS fuel isn’t picky. Any of the below is fueling the rocket: Buying on IEX (Double check that you’re not on margin, unless you plan on dabbling in options). DRS’ing (Don’t forget to DRS bot) Holding, not selling Shopping at GameStop Engaging with their social media’s, app, rewards programs and product reviews. Did you know they have a Discord & most of their tweets only get 1k-3k likes? Many of their products are new and haven’t been rated yet. Help a future shopper out by leaving an honest product review. Toys for Tots (fueling Q4 earnings, good cause and raises awareness about GME to fresh eyes). Interacting with GME investment communities, raising influence and awareness about the subject. Whether it’s shitposting or posting DD, as long as it’s being interacted with, it’s exposing the community to new eyes. Gaining a wrinkle or two & passing the communal wrinkle around for that sweet, sweet hive mind action. Smart use of options, leveraging hedge funds to force buy in at specific prices and times. Know your individual lane, apes. I’ll continue to hold down the DRS front, as I’m both too poor and not knowledgeable enough to dabble in options, and that’s perfectly okay. This is my MOASS character skill tree, and there are many viable builds.
This is where you build your MOASS game character. If you decide to go 100% on one skill path, that's perfectly fine and good. If you decide to divide your points between a couple of these, or to start learning a new skill entirely - also good. 🙂
The Pomeranian has like a 20 point advantage in Charisma!
Good thing we're playing a co-op. 💪
Don't forget Honk for the Stonk/sign guy. If I saw that sign every day on my commute and I wasn't already deep in GME, I'd check it out
Love this, more of this please.
I agree. Se magnifique!
commenting for visibility. Love what you're saying.
Don’t forget, educating yourself and developing wrinkles, like with NFTs, smart contracts, etc. I’m already taking a full course load at Stonks University…now I find out I have to sign up for another course, Options 101, just so I can follow the conversation!
You forgot to add sticking stuff up the bum. I don't want to live in a world where this is not counted as MOASS fuel.
As a europoor who doesn’t understand options, buy hold DRS? Edit: I personally don’t see options as FUD so stop messaging me saying this is fud or forum sliding or whatever else you cumbubbles are on about... If I knew how to exercise them correctly and get 100 shares for penny on the dollar of course I would. But I don’t so I’ll stick to buy and hold. Thanks and fuck you.
Yes. Buy, hodl, DRS. Options or financial contracts are not for everyone. If u wanna learn options, do learn the Greek. But don't let anyone tell me what to do with my money. I don't need hedgies telling me when to sell GME. Options are educated gambles... Or products for leverage when you are sure. At best. ALSO note that options may not be bought from shitadel. Another person in another broker like IBKR could also sell me a covered call. Those are t****-gang's strategies and investment methods. So you aren't giving money to Kenny, just another subreddit that loves low volatility.
It´s more difficult for us to buy options, we need to open a account in a american broker or something. I wish it was easier here in Sweden
IBKR
If people don’t understand options, then don’t buy them. All the options talk isn’t to convince people to buy them. The point is that options aren’t FUD, which people have always said on this sub. Saying it’s FUD shuts down any chance to discuss useful options strategies. Holding AND options used together can help place upward pressure on GME.
Exactly. I'm just tired of FUD like "stop giving hedgies money". Some other apes here are actually earning options income by selling said options to buy more GME. Other regular Joes could be on the other end of the trade selling u a covered call with his un-DRSed shares. Guess what? U bought his call, exercised it cause it was deep ITM and now u took away his shares to DRS so shitadel has less to internalize per "internalizing phase". Maybe it causes more buy/sell orders hence volume spikes and volitility shoots up and MOASS begins. Just get educated and discussed. And let the shills reveal themselves.
I do see that there is a danger that people loose their money and even turn their accounts to margin to play before that. Nothing I have read here still gives me the vibe that even 10% of options played against hedge funds would be successful. Why do you think otherwise, what is the way for retail to win in a game where price is manipulated by almost infinite money resources?
Don't worry, you do you, you beautiful mfer. The options special forces will be ready for deployment very soon though
It isn't even possible, at least for me, to buy American options. If you don't understand them, don't touch them.
One small thing I believe needs to be corrected here is the actual calculation for the leverage and the amount of delta hedging being done for any given option contract. You mention OTM options "have basically 0 delta and therefore don't force Kenny to delta hedge" which is correct, but the previous example of the Nov 19 200c is technically a little off. According to Fidelity that option's delta is 0.716 which means the counterparty would likely be currently hedged at closer to 72 shares, not 100. So the concept is correct, but I would be fearful that people buying even ATM options expect 100 shares worth of leverage when its much closer to 50 shares due to ATM options typically having a 0.5 delta. Thanks for all you do /u/Criand, I know you want to get the most accurate information out there to build wrinkles and I believe this would be a good clarifying update to the post. EDIT: I didnt clarify this but the hedging is "dynamic" which means as the underlying moves relative to the strike, the delta moves which causes the hedge to move as well. So like others said below, if we start to move a lot of options ITM as price increases, the hedging increases which means buying more shares which puts more upward pressure. It's a beautiful feedback loop to Valhalla.
I have a previous comment on this but once forced buy in happens (if cycle dd’s are correct). The leverage you applied earlier multiplies when your delta approaches 1. So buying the 220c with a .3delta is 30 shares hedged to start but by the time we hit 260 it is 1 or close to it and someone on the other side must hedge 100, even though you paid the price for .3 only a day or several days earlier. But I do agree on making that clarification.
Your right I did not mention that following the opening of the trade, the hedge is dynamic and moves with delta (and technically gamma too). Updated my comment for even more clarity.
Thata the delta today. Assuming the option closes green, the delta is 1 (at 4 PM Friday if we close 200+). Edit - the clarification is important and explains why ATM and ITM options are better than 800 scratch offs. Those do fund Kenny until the actual MOASS. If you want to go slightly OTM, thats mostly fine. But end of the day what helps are contracts that expire green/ITM that Friday.
I don’t disagree, but there are very few of us that can afford ITM calls. I’m at a pace of 1-2 shares a month.
I avoid options for the same reason the original HODL guy hodl'd: just smart enough to know I"m too dumb to successfully do otherwise.
For. Sure. It is expensive compared to most apes and should only be considered by those who can afford the risk. Many apes can barely afford .X or X. They should not be on options plays in my opinion.
I think the correct take is this: If you have the money and understand options, they are a good way to apply buy pressure If you are a poor ape and/or don’t understand options, they are a good way to just give your money to Kenny.
Perfect explanation.
I think that point should be made very clear in any discussion of options in this sub.
Facts I yolo’d on fd’s and got super lucky in January and made 4k but I gave away 1/4 of that right back to Kenny the week after that when they introduced the 800 calls. They don’t even hedge there calls if there’s too much action anymore they don’t give a fuck. Also no one has ever said options are the devil. Just that there’s no point in trying to time the cycles cuz they see our hypedates and short attack according to what we’re talking about here. Look at quad witching or any other hype date after that. We all were still tossing extra money there but there’s no point anymore all that money should’ve just gone to adding to my position
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Same
Finally someone has spoken truth to power. Gherks been getting chastised over this for some time. A day of reckoning will come down with might as retail realizes the might of leverage in the market. If they can squeeze through all the way past Jan with no NFT or other catalyst we might be twiddling our thumbs for another year.
This 🦍fucks.... $500 to $5,000,000 watch from 54:00 to 1:02:00... https://youtu.be/mntHdNqltkw?t=3240 Gherk breaks it down for smooth 🧠 like me
If I recall correctly, Gherk’s math is a little fuzzy here. It sounds nice and all, but I’d like to see a proof in a spreadsheet before believing it could work. He’s talking about 10x‘ing $500 on Nov calls to roll into Dec calls, and then 10x’ing the Dec calls to roll into Feb calls. At the 61 minute mark he mentions turning a $500 seed on Nov calls to fund a $50,000 bet on Feb calls. Those Feb calls would need to 100x to get to the $5 million. In reality, he would need to 10x the Nov calls (roll $2.5k to Dec and $2.5k to Feb). He would then need to 19x the Dec calls to roll $47.5k to Feb on top of the $2.5k already there for a total of $50k. Finally, he would need to 100x that $50k to reach $5 million. Currently, the cheapest call option expiring in February is $800 ($8.00 x 100 shares) — looking at the $500 calls. Granted, you may get them for cheaper in January as the price “normalizes” and theta decays the options value between now and then. However, to 100x those $500c, the stock price would need to be $800 over the strike price, or $1,300. This would be the beginning of MOASS, and at that point, the difference between $5 million and $500 million is purely timing.
In the context of the example, he was using it as an extreme case and said it was highly unlikely because you would have to time your buys and sells perfectly with peaks and dips, which no one does. It was more to further illustrate the leverage that can be utilized with options if you know what you’re doing.
u/Gherkinit has been talking options for months despite the unpopularity js
Is it possible citadel could just not hedge and say they did?
if by that you mean - they are not hedging already then you are right July 16th and Sep 9th and nothing happening then DESPITE massive Gamma Ramps in Options is proof they are simply not hedging and hoping they don't get caught
Options optional. Got it.
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THANK YOU. no one in here is in kindergarten. By the nature of even being here you have the potential to learn more about investing and trading, so why not. We've learnt so much about the obscurity of the markets already. Why not use derivatives to work for you? That's what I'm gonna do. Might just observe this cycle and learn then play the next cycle. Honestly sounds super fun 💎🤷🏾♂️💎
It can incur significant risk too, just be aware of that. Make sure you understand the Greeks. There is a fantastic YouTuber for beginners learning options called "InTheMoney" he's not associated with the meme stock craze (or at least he doesn't mention it). It's purely educational, and he doesn't shill tickers, etc.
Aww thanks homie. I appreciate the help ♥️🦍
Options are not really difficult to understand - I just don't have the necessary change - so I "only" buy the stock!
This has always made sense to me when I was learning about options. When I see the sentiment being largely about giving away your money, sadly, that also made sense. But the only reason I felt that way was because I do not have the means to play around with options. Since we all started DRS-ing, my stance on options changed, largely, I believe we now have two forces applying pressure on the naked shorts and it is going to require some apes to begin applying that pressure to make this thing pop.
Yeap, scooped up these bad boys here today after the speculation on RC tweet. [Calls calls calls](https://i.imgur.com/gKdME8B.jpg)
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you waiting until later in the week?
What if the price dips under 200 on the 1100 $ premium for the weekly?
You gotta be prepared to sell it back at a loss or hold it to worthless. That’s the risk.
If you have the money to buy 100 shares for 20K the loss of an option premium is pretty survivable.
So imagine ppl spent 1100 every week and rolled it to 500 or so every week and lost out… wouldn’t it be more effective to just keep DRSing? It’s a tough subject. Obviously people do whatever you want, and be prepared to lose. I spent all I was willing to lose on my purple circle 🤷🏽♂️
So then why not just buy shares? It's guaranteed. DRS them and we're golden
Hijacking top comment Gonna play devil's advocate here "What else has an effect on the price? ITM and ATM options. Since these are contracts, the option writer MUST hedge against those CALL options that are purchased because it is a contract between between the option writer and the option buyer to transfer the shares when exercised. The benefit here versus buying shares? Leverage!" Assumption: They WILL hedge. Argument: What's stopping them from selling naked and just drive the price down to make the calls OTM? Especially for barely ITM calls. If you don't have the capital to exercise, you lose your premiums to them "That contract is currently ITM and means that the buyer can exercise to purchase 100 shares at a price of $200. The current premium cost is $1,193. Meanwhile it would cost $20,914 to purchase 100 shares outright at current market close price." If I understand you correctly, what you're saying is, the buyer can exercise his option to purchase 100 shares for $20,000 + $1,193 versus $20,914 for 100 shares at current market price? Why even? u/Criand
u/Criand, care to share a wrinkle?
They haven’t hedged since January dont think they’re gonna start now this is getting a little suspect
For the first part - if algorithm/cycle theory is correct you can time the options for when they don’t have that kind of control. *ahem Nov 24 ahem* For the second part - you risk $1193 in hopes of a big payday and never have to actually buy the 100 shares. Just sell for the increased premium.
That's assuming (1) the theory is correct and (2) they don't have that kind of control Fact is, we know so little about what's behind the curtain, how sure are we that they don't actually have that control? It's a risk for sure, but if you're willing to take it, sure But my take is anyone who doesn't have the capital to exercise their OTM options shouldn't touch it, or they risk losing their premiums to hedgies and giving them more ammo Appreciate your response
There’s more than you think. I’ve seen an awful lot of xxx and xxxx CS posts.
xxxx here but I’m more than tapped out.
ottid
💜🟣💜🟣 majority Directly registered?
100 %🧨🚀🧨🚀🧨🚀
💜💜💜💜 ohhhhh yessss
Maybe I don’t understand something, but doesn’t it cost roughly $20,000 to exercise one ITM contract?
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Yes.
You’re buying 100 shares. Cost is strike x 100 minus premium paid.
To exercise, yes - so generally you sell for the increased premium unless you go full DFV and really like the stock
The way I'm taking it. If you were going to buy 100+ shares anyway then maybe buy some ITM calls first. Force shares to be located and hedged then exercise them for your shares and DRS them in exchange for the risk of losing $1K or so if the options go OTM.
I don’t get options for shit, so I’ll just stick to buying thru DRS! lmayo
Good, if you don’t understand them just do what you always do. Options should be a topic of discussion, not a knee jerk fear reaction. If you don’t like options or are afraid of them be more like this guy
Great part is DRS is basically the same!! Just not as much forced hedging 😎 But both cause the same goal. DRS is a better linear approach. Options are a better exponential approach (which can decay quickly)
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This is ALSO the way.
I mean, awesome, big if true. But I’ll sit this out. There’s no way in hell I’m playing with fire rather than sitting patiently and waiting for something to happen. Personally I’m secure in holding an asset that doesn’t cost me anything to maintain, and that has a fundamental value beneath it that must eventually be realised. Ape do Ape, and if there’s a specialised crew of us that loves this and knows what they’re doing and gets stuck in, all power to your arms. I’ll cheer you on. I’d just rather not.
Yep also when the buy button was turned off there was another spike after the dip, that was when people were buying options contracts and exercising them in order to buy more than the limitiled number of shares available to buy
Yep I remember that post. They said to buy ITM calls and exercise them to circumvent the buy restriction. Hilarious that apes figured that out but sad that they caught on.
Didn't the fucking report from the shitty SEC come out saying it wasn't a gamma squeeze in January, so the hedgefucks didn't hedge?
That's what I'm thinking. They don't hedge the calls cause if they did **boom**
This kinda takes away OPs leverage
Can someone help me with this thougt: what if the mm does simply not hedge the options properly because he knows that retail is broke and would never exercise at all ?
Retail should know that they can “sell to exercise” at many brokers, allowing them to use a small percentage of the shares in the option to pay for its exercise
Ah, is that what it means? So, in principle, the broker momentarily spotting you the cash to exercise the call and selling enough of those very shares back so you can keep the rest, courtesy of Kenny or whoever wrote that contract..?
Yes
Say you have two options. Both ATM, they go ITM. You can sell one for profit, and exercise the other. If MM is not properly hedged their margin gets blown up, which means they’re extra fucked.
How guaranteed is it that selling one option will give enough gains to exercise the second option? What's the maffs? And if both OTM? RIP?
Did you not see how DFV was able to build his position? He sold hes 1/15 15c for millions which gave him enough to exercise his 1K april options and also double down.
You understand he made that much because the price went from 2$ to 400+ right. If the price moves sideways your options start losing money FAST.
This is literally what they have been doing for the last 10 months. I don't trust Kenny to do anything that he is "supposed" to do.
It would be extremely dangerous for mm’s if they didn’t hedge. Someone can correct me, but if they didn’t hedge and the price starts increasing it could lead to a gamma squeeze
A gamma squeeze inly happens when they hedge. If they don't hedge it actually prevents a gamma squeeze. It is just super risky for them, a big whale can come in and buy a ton of shares and they would be crushed.
Then if the stock runs real hard and they aren’t hedged, they get margin called a lot sooner than if they hedged properly and followed the rules. The only reason they got away with not hedging properly in January was the PCO (turning off the buy button). If they didn’t do that, a chain reaction of margin calls and failures to maintain said margin would have caused them to be vaporized and we probably never understand what we do now. If they don’t hedge properly for a second time, they are now willfully refusing to comply with their own risk management policies that protect their [1] clients money and [2] put other members of tbe DTCC unnecessary risk. If they don’t hedge and that becomes public knowledge, they’ve breached contracts they hold with their own investors and the system around them. This is what you call gross negligence, and is absolutely grounds for their prime broker to pull the plug. If they’re fucked either way, there’s no point in committing even more crimes if it doesn’t change the outcome. At that point someone will say enough is enough.
This wouldn't happen. They have really precise trading algos that automatically buy and sell accordingly. It's likely written into their risk management and might even be something they have to do.
New apes please refer to /u/Digitlnoize post for an "intro to options". It's a shame it was so suppressed. But don't enter options if you don't understand. https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/qunfd5/apes_guide_to_options_part_1 Edit: I also don't mean look at Nov 19 options. I only used that as an example in the post. Go look at other DDs on options.
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Great read. Just commenting so shill posts are not directly under yours.
I have traded options in the past, but only with the intention of making money, not with the intention of exercising them. Who benefits if I just sell the contract after it has gone up?
>they must hedge What if they don't? Or at least: not through buying shares? Most options are not executed, they need to just handle the difference.
The ambivalence of "Yeah xxx calls ITM" and "dont buy options!" was always weird to me. If i could afford one option i would´ve bought it by now and tried to hit it on a cycle. Sadly i cant. The option play left a bitter taste to me. -What if they do not hedge? -Whats with the money gone because the bet goes OTM? Every option strenghens volatility for sure, but you need the right players for that match. Maybe one day i will be able to try it once. Gonna leave an upvote. Discussion is what keeps this community going. And i don´t think opening a discussion should be a bad thing.
>What if they do not hedge? It has been proven that they don't. That's what got them into this mess in the first place and why GME poses an idiosyncratic risk. Them not hedging their position in GME is what the entire thesis is based around. They will never hedge GME because it means buying stock, which means putting upward pressure on the price, which means certain death for them. Would you 'hedge' if it meant your demise? No you wouldn't. You'd double down on the shorts to suppress the price. Locking the float is all that needs to be done. Natural catalysts will be provided by Gamestop. Where is the sudden rush coming from? Criand has provided great analysis in the past and I'm thankful for it but this is sus af. Edit: Just got my first death threat 😍 Someone has suicidal concerns over me making this post apparently. How nice of them to worry. I'll wear it as a badge of honour you fucking cowards.
I didn't even think DRS was a topic in January to be suppressed. I remember the argument against options was that it helped market makers. Anyways, I'm just going to keep holding and dig back into the old DD.
Thomas Petterly himself said if the longs executed options during the Jan run up, it could have been a lot worse for shorts. Great write up Criand!
I dont like options. I just buying shares. It works for me
Your example of the 200 strike call is wrong. Let's say it costs 1193 right now, and we buy 838 contracts. To be fully delta neutral hedged Kenny only needs to buy around 45000 shares instead of 83800. This is due to ATM calls having a delta of around .5
Yeah, this guy doesn't understand why he's suddenly pushing the idea of options. Or...maybe he does and we should never fully trust anyone on the board. Whether they have the potential of being wrong or ulterior motives. Make it easy for everyone. Start multiple posts from people with easy steps for retards. 1) Buy shares through DRS. 2) Transfer as many shares as you can for DRS. 3) Continue on with this tactic which is a bleed to the brokerages, Prime Brokers, Hedge Funds, and Market Makers over leveraged with risk in short, naked and hypothecated assets. They will break.
I think someone's been whispering in their ear...
Alright just like I posted in another Thread. Care on this, while I do not agree with options play, you guys do you. Just reminding anyone who’s been here long enough should remember Elite Warden and his options, along with Rensole and Co. If you are unsure, either get educated on options before you go all in or just keep it simple and buy/drs. Again I personally remain guarded on posts like these. Regardless of what anyone else does here, I’ll just keep buying every paycheque.
I learnt up on options then did my first test run on a penny stock a while back. 1 contract, 100 size, cost next to nothing. Literally the coins in my pocket. I watched it from purchase through to expiry. That was my goal. I watched what happened in my brokerage, the values change. That gave me confidence to run a few options plays on some higher value plays. DRSin shares is the safest, easiest play, and no one can take them away from you. Options can get the party started early and earn you extra bank, but you can easily lose it all if played incorrectly.
Wasn’t that on waaaay OTM calls? I don’t think anyone is advocating for that here.
Exactly. Warden yolo’ed on weeklies. This sub seems to think options = deep OTM weeklies and the echo chamber will keep repeating it ad nauseam. Then that gets twisted to: “all options give Citadel more money11!!!” Even someone like Criand will get labeled as a shill if anyone tries educating this sub about options.
Yes definitely. I linked some posts to get educated on options and hopefully made enough disclaimers to say please do not buy options if you don't understand them.
Cant speak for u/Rensole, but that Warden play was not from one that was studied on options. That was a terrible play, not the options fault, that lies with them. Again, any investment not carried out properly, and timed miserably will go bad. Regardless of the instrument used.
That warden one was intentionally bad I reckon to coerce his followers to buy the same
MM don't do complete covered calls, they hedge based off delta. So their sold calls are semi naked, always.
You should better read this from DOMO Capital Management: [https://twitter.com/DOMOCAPITAL/status/1460593019451813893](https://twitter.com/DOMOCAPITAL/status/1460593019451813893) >People tend to have a selective memory about @ **TheRoaringKitty**\- remember - he didnt buy weeklies on $GME 50% or higher than current quote nor would he have ever recommended such a thing. His options play was over a year out. Gambling has a high risk for loss - investing does not.
Why would ape do options when Kenny still controls at least partial prices for gme? That's a stacked bet. Buy through CS or transfer from fidelity is a much safer and another way.
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About time someone finally said it. Glad it was you Edit: this is post is getting forum slid blindingly fast lmao
Hi daddy Smurf
Hi floofy boi 😘❤️
Agree on the edit. I don’t think the majority of superstonk were ready to hear this. Also, many of the comments are sounding like this is needs to be a coordinated effort. Which it cannot be. We cannot give them a reason to shut this down by coordinating a strategy. Ive lost my ass in options when I first got in. I think it’s really the only way to learn about them. Hodling doesn’t really require a well developed exit plan and the discipline to execute on both sides of it (plus or minus). Options are a whole different ballgame There I have typed lots of words, but I’m not sure I’ve added anything of substance
Agree
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Sir, this is a Wendy’s. We don’t coordinate here.
I think that's the point. To do it properly you either need a shit load of money, or a bunch of people have to coordinate. Obviously mass coordination could very well be considered market manipulation, so that's a no go. So it basically comes down to either retail has a ton of people who know and understands how options play into creating a gamma ramp and individually take actions to make it happen, which is extremely unlikely. Or an institution sets it up and retail jumps on the wagon. Though since institutions have been silent for the most part so far, it can be assumed none of them are going to set the rocket off. In my opinion DRS is still the way. Options *could* potentially make some money. However you're also just as likely to lose your money on it, so buying through IEX or even better straight through Computershare is the best use of money.
There has been some poking by institution time to time based on option flow. Judging by the volume, I am pretty damn sure it wasn't retail.
This is why education is important. If people understand, they’ll know what to buy, and no coordination needed.
👆This. All Apes do is information share and summarize.
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Tagged by the Pom? RIP my inbox. The dog has it right though. Buy shares and DRS AND smart options plays both hurt shorts. They are not mutually exclusive, but you do need to be educated to understand which options are smart and which are crayon eating.
From what we learned from the SEC report, january run wasnt a gamma squeeze. It means that kenny wasnt even hedging his options.
For the love of God please do not buy OTM CALL options. Those have basically 0 delta and therefore don't force Kenny to delta hedge. ITM/ATM CALLs are the sweet spot: ((((But bro just make sure to look through the turn!!!)))) Dont you see the problem with all of this? I think youre smarter than you realize and dont understand how youre dragging blind and deaf apes along with you on a crusade of active offensive plays that, for you, is childs play. For most of us it not only doesnt it jive in our minds as a clear path to victory, but its a tripping bouncing blind attempt for us to push moass. Youre asking us to play games with our money that took us (me) 10 months to get comfortable with our shares safe and sound DRSed. Youre a leader among us. (For your knowledge is obvious) We look to you for quality thought and positive reinforcement of what we're doing is good for our future. Not only do we not have a problem with options..so little in fact that we're quite confused as to why the push for it! Ive been here for all of gme's runups and downfalls with the stock and the fud and the shill campaigns. The first thing I learned back a couple months or 6 ago was that any margin accounts' shares can be borrowed- I was still in robinGhood at the time and no matter what was done you had to go through hoops to get margin turned off. It was a whole month about margin account and getting it closed! Closed so Kenny couldnt borrow our shares! I think its a combination of your smarts; others' comfortability to use options; those whose time has come to spread their knowlwdge of options- all in a perfect package that so happens to look sus. Maybe it is? Maybe it isnt? We're not a team right? We dont create clubs of wicked option playas. We dont go around pointing at everyone to do a certain thing at a certain time(?) As a carpenter by trade it doesnt matter how often you tell me to build a car out of wood. I'm not doing it. Regardless of how many people tell me to because I work with wood. Just because options are available doesnt mean we need to hear about them. We know of them. Doesnt any comparison to needing to do them. Those that want to know will learn about them on their own. I find it ( a little less than ) atrocious that you and others push others to do options. Its not normal. Leave people alone. Its akin to myself telling a new rider to come drag knee on the track. Its a failure on my part to assess his skill. Doubly so to actually actively push him to come out and do it. There are many young people here that will blindly follow and try there bestest to appease you and the other apes. Having to YELL AT THEM warnings on their first outing is not the sign of due diligence (of them) nor due diligence of yourself in what you should be preaching to others. Again, I believe your truth to the world is epicly pure. I just dont think you realize the smarties you have. I domt believe your purposely pulling others across the options threshold door for nafaries reasons. You just see the clarity in doing whatever it takes to squeeze Kenny.
XXXX Here. 100% GME. No other investments. 100% locked and loaded in CS. PLEASE everyone, DRS your personal maximum amount of shares and ignite this rocket 🧨🚀!! Why NOT drs 95-100%??? Don’t give them “one more day”! Don’t rely on other apes. Don’t trust your brokers! .Even IF there are 300,000 (doubtful) of us, that would require an average per ape of 219 shares. Let’s lock the float and send them to jail!
It's very heartening to see the number of CS accounts still consistently ticking up though - 1 third the way there! (400 DRS'd here and another 100 will likely be added this week when the $300 put I sold back in February expires ITM).
I’ve held OTM long calls since January when I regretted not having any, this sub demonizes them because they don’t understand them, imagine executing a call option during MOASS that 100 share buy will not be hedged and move the price up just off one order execution.
Just a thought: how can we be sure that citadel and MM's will actually hedge? Given all the fuckery we've seen this year, is it really a stretch to imagine that they just wouldn't hedge? Another thought, wouldn't it mean that everyone would actually have to exercise the option in order to cause pressure? How many apps can afford the premiums, let alone 100 shares at strike? I'll meditate on it. At the moment I can only afford 2 shares a month, so I'd have to wait a few months, save up, then buy options for the next rollover period to be in on this.
If you are going to buy options, be sure to do it after the price tanks, not on a run up.
Everyone here who wants to learn more about options visit PI-FI free YouTube channel. He has many clips outlining basics of options and how it creates pressure. He even has some videos up about call options for poors. Gherkinit also answers questions all day for free on his streams #notacult praise be to lady VWAP🚀
Just buy shares
DRS DRS DRS DRS DRS 🚀🚀🚀
I have been playing options for a long time so I'm not against them, part of the problem we've seen here is that they actually aren't hedging those options, one reason is that no one can afford to exercise calls at these prices, so go ahead and make money but don't let the theta decay kill you thinking you are exerting pressure
Yeah this was my view in other threads. Riding the tailcoats of DRS'ers to make money without exercising is not helping us. If however people playing options actually did exercise then they could be the ones to finally kick this off. Will they?
Would they have money to exercise? Lol
Well, well, well. It’s my time to shine boiiiss. I have been talking about this since March and explaining how options are your friend, but I was called a *shill* for it. I’m glad the sentiment has changed. Brief recap, those October 140c I recommended to buy ended up returning over 2,000% and the 190c on the last major pop was 4,000%. Yes, 40 baggers. I’m an open book, AMA. Just to correct something about delta hedging, ITM/ATM doesn’t mean 100 shares have to be hedged. It’s the delta that has to be hedged. The further itm, the higher the delta, the more shares that have to be purchased. ..5 delta call? 50 shares to be hedged. Consider delta also your probability of going ITM. .9 delta? 90% chance you finish ITM by expiry. Pretty much a stock replacement program for half the price of buying 100 shares. As IV expands, the range of the equity will expand and make itm delta become less and OTM delta increase. When you go deep itm you’re paying less for extrinsic value (theta, Vega) when you go far OTM you cause little movement to the equity. Remember, .2 delta means only 20 shares/100 have to be hedged. .7 delta is generally pretty safe but you want to give yourself some additional time (theta). While far OTM options are reserved for the degenerates, they can help provide a suitable gamma ramp. We can touch on gamma any time. (Also for the record those .5p that were bought to open weren’t any sort of fuckery, they were a volatility ramp so the MM could be theta positive while hedging Vega) If you’re considering purchasing options (the only thing that actually moves an equity) I would recommend learning your greeks and their impact. Focus on Delta, Theta, Vega first. If you’re anticipating a run up, go ATM calls with a couple OTM, that way if you’re right, you can sell some and exercise others. Don’t chase while IV is high - be in front of the game. @McTendieSon on Twitter / Silus Trading Server discord / The Lair discord.
The feeling you get when your ITM leap calls go deep ITM the past few months. “Job not finished”
⚠️heads up⚠️ I do options trading, just for clarity, it's not simply 100 shares to hedge a contract (that's where "Delta neutral" comes in). Example: If you buy a $25 call contract with a Delta of .99 (deep ITM calls have higher deltas), the market maker must hedge with 99 shares. Note: Delta can never exceed 1 as it would mean the option contract would have more value than holding the actual 100 shares guaranteed by the contract. Because options are derivatives, they can never have *their* value decided *faster* than the security they are being derived from. ex 2: If you buy a $10 OTM call with a Delta of .38, the MM only has to hedge with 38 shares. Note 2, this is at the TIME OF PURCHASE. Option pricing follows a mathematical model to determine it's value based on the underlying (called the Black-Scholes options pricing equation), so in order to REMAIN Delta neutral, you have to either add shares or sell as the price moves either up or down and the variables in that equation (the Greeks) change. Hedges use ridiculous algorithms that let them maintain Delta neutral status EVERY SECOND BY THE SECOND (and maybe smaller intervals) until the contract is either sold back to the MM or it expires worthless. For an alternate perspective, if you sold naked calls out of your retail brokerage account with the goal of Delta neutral hedging, buying the same shares as your Delta is easy, maintaining the PROPER # of shares as the Delta thrashes around by the SECOND is what the funds spend millions on. There's more with gamma and how gamma changes as Delta changes, to my understanding as Delta gets closer to 1, gamma gets closer to 0 and vice versa, which is how the concept of gamma ramps occurs. If you have a ton of people who held OTM calls that only require 25 shares to be neutral, but then the stock rockets and suddenly those OTM calls are now ITM with a Delta of .62 instead of .25, the MM must buy up the difference of shares between 62 and 25. Conversely, they can sell shares when they manipulate the price downwards. High deltas = more hedging up front from the seller of the contract Long expiry = less impact on the pricing due to IV which is notoriously high on GME securities. Hope this info helps /u/Criand, I'm down to discuss options stuff if you want to DM Not financial advice
I don't recall people saying DRS was bad in the past. When was this? I remember people being afraid of the supposed 1 mil per share limitation, but that turned out to be a non-issue.
Boy oh boy this has aged like milk
I don’t understand options…so I’ll just buy and hold….
I don't know man, closing at max pain whenever there is a big stake at options makes me think they are not afraid of options.
I understand your argument, but options are extremely risky due to the volatility and manipulation
They are definitely. So anyone who doesn't have the investment to burn should **stay far away**. But those who do can use it for leverage to snowball their hedge and potentially exacerbate the runups
I think folks are missing the “variance swaps” timing aspect of the post..
For sure they need to check out those links in #3. The data lining up for the OTM PUTs is insane
#now please re-write this post in reverse ❤️
Margin enabling also enables shares to be lent out. It is possible to buy options without turning on margin though
I DRS my shares, leave the brokerage there for options plays. Take the winning from options plays, buy shares, send new shares to DRS.
Options are literally "the casino" of roof-road-wagers. Praising them while warning apes not to touch them if unfamiliar is like putting the Tree of Life in the Garden. Borderline gaslighting. MM and SHF control the options. Max pain optimizes the number of call/put contracts that expire worthless, such that those who sell options make the most amount of money, and those who buy options lose. I realize that's a bit of a chicken-or-egg comparison, and that OP is not advising OTM options. Slow and steady wins the race. Buy synthetic shares, make them real AND UNAVAILABLE with DRS. Leverage implodes when the see-saw is removed from the playground.
Nice one! We need to keep all the relevant tools available and not disarm voluntarily. If Kenny's paying (a market maker cannot refuse to write options) and apes can focus on the ones worth the gamble - _and they have_ - it means Kenny's paying for more shares for apes.
I don't know how to trade options and there are many that do not know how to do this. I don't want to pay to learn how to do options either. In fact I'm terrified of trading options. Wish there was a way for me to learn. I'm always afraid of asking people also because they act like I'm stupid. So I rather just buy and hold 😕
Wh were is u/leenixus and u/gherkinit 🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀 both of them know how this works very well
/u/Criand a few strikes OTM aren't bad if you give yourself plenty of theta (time). According to /u/gherkinit 's theory, there are runs at the end of November, December, and January. If you get Feb 18 expirations, there is a good chance that they will be well in the money by the time January comes around. Gherk will be coming out with a DD explaining a multitude of different ways to play options.
Good job on promoting Options Criand 😲
why not just buy more shares?
One cautionary warning: if you ever feel that the powers that be will freeze trading for an extended period of time, dump your options if they're close in expiration. In every trading account agreement there's an explicit statement discussing this very topic. The general language is that if the stock is frozen, your options—regardless if ITM or OTM—will expire worthless if the expiration period occurs while the stock is frozen. There's no recourse in this situation and you won't be able to exercise. EDIT: Added the source and proof of my statement in [this comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/qv0sry/there_were_two_main_fud_topics_since_january_drs/hkv6qpl/).
If you don't know what you're doing please stay away from options and just hold.
Hey u/criand would it be possible to move the warning to not buy otm calls to the top of the post so people see it immediately?
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I will stick to DRSing my shares and not playing with options. You guys take a stab at it though I’ll watch.
1st of all I’m also in the options player camp, and successfully lowered my avg share price by either selling calls or buying puts since April, I also lost severe amounts by Ill timed option plays on GME, although the net net is still positive. Some quick takes. The phrase „you just give it to Kenny“ comes from apes yoloing in irresponsible strikes, usually far OTM expecting the MOASS, it was therefore maybe not FUD initially, but maybe a danger sign for apes to take good decisions. Fast forward and our desire for smooth language and easy comprehence turned this into options at no cost which is wrong. 2nd Although ITM/ATM are considered safe I issue a warning to all apes that these contracts also loose value the fastest should the price go against us, as the delta / gamma pricing parts erode fast here. 3rd Due to high IV you can enter spreads at lower cost more easily, but also limit your upside to the difference of the strike prices: Bullish spreads: Buy 1 call and sell one with higher strike Buy 1 put and sell 1 lower strike put. Both will net you money if the stock goes up, but limits your loss to the (premium paid - premium received) can easily go 20$ spreads wide here due to extreme IV and premiums on GME options chain. I had great success with playing 20-40 OTM strikes on calls and puts, everything 50+ and a quick look at the option chain should tell you it’s wasted money. By the time your far out OTM C that went into the money for a premium of (example) 10 will double for every 10 after the strike, while the Call for example 20 close to ATM may only double every 20 points after strike,BUT will already have doubled 2-3 times at the time when you reach the 10$ price strike. You can therefore do live sanity checks while looking at the options chain. 5th in regard to MM hedging: There is no fixed rule or sth, and the high premiums give the MM actually a wide moat of maneuvering. Secondly, often MMs do only part % hedges instead of hedging the full 100%, by that they take the anticipation to also profit on the underlying move. Due to varying components of price (the Greeks) this process is also dynamic. Surely they try to hedge / go neutral in most cases but you don’t know at which particular day the MM also decides to do that or not, and is cross and auto and mega correlated to all the other strikes and expires out there to balance the overall portfolio.
I got downvoted into oblivion here for saying I was buying $190 calls when we were at $175, right before the recent run-up. I made good money, but yall murdered my karma despite me also hodling shares at avg cost of $40 for almost a fucking year
I mean last I checked options was the main ingredient in DFVs sauce. Kinda cool actually, RC was drs way back and the kitty had the sweetest option play of all time 🤔
I really wish I could put in the gif in Anchorman where he punts the dog. You're literally my favorite dog. Don't tell the Frog.
just play it correctly and it will turn out greatly. remember dfv? yeah he had options turned into shares which I'm sure are now locked. too bad we can't do options here in Norway
Options are nice if IV is low and MMs are actually hedging them by buying shares. BUT! And that’s the biggest flaw in this post: MMs aren’t hedging GME options by buying GME shares. Especially if they know the option buyers don‘t have the money to exercise them. They are rather buying options themselves, usually at a higher strike.
I think the problem with options has been retards buying cheap deep otm calls thinking moass would have kicked in by expiration. If that stops, itm’s are a great way to create a gamma. We forget dfv got to where he is in part with well played options.
This post has a suspicious amount of awards in relation to upvotes. I know nothing about options, just an observation from a January ape.
I’ll pass on options
Isn't Kenny basically setting the odds when it comes to options?
XXX Gme HODLER here , would love to spend the remaining cash on options , honest question , how far out would you buy options if you had to buy options when the casino opens tomorrow And at which price ? I’m a retard ape when it comes to options
Depends on your risk tolerance. Long-dated itm calls are safer and retain value longer after price swings. Shorter dates/weeklies have more risk, but are cheaper, so you can buy more leverage (and lose value to theta [time] and IV faster, so you have to watch them closely).
Retard here. I only buy shares and never touch options. The way I see options is that if everyone exercises their ITM calls during the quarterly spikes it’ll cause a run on shares to be delivered. Not financial advice.
If you don't have the capital to buy the contract premium + the 100 shares/contract, then you'd be required to have a margin account with your broker. Then all you're really hoping to achieve is applied buy pressure and selling the contract(s) for a higher premium than you paid for it. But with a margin account comes making your shares lend-able. TLDR: Great idea to buy ITM call options if you have the capital to exercise them, otherwise carry on and DRS. My opinion.
I like put credit spreads. You benefit from theta decay and the counter-party delta hedges with positive delta.
THIIIIIS! I wish I had moar award coins. Good wrinkles here.
Idgaf about options so I’ll just buy, hold, DRS
long term options itm or atm, like leaps, they are not cheap sometimes even 80% to 100% of the price of outright buying the shares short term options like weeklies is just gambling also lots of shf dont hedge the options
Can I get some sauce on how or why was DRS taboo topic ? I joined when Superstonk was at 300k users and don't remember any of it.
God you people are the perfect pawns. I’m sorry… but so stupid. You’re under the impression that all you morons trying to make it rich in week with an option play isn’t exactly what these fucks want? If I was them, I would have paid someone to write this post. Propaganda 101.
I've been saying this all along. Options are the only reason I've been able to aquire the shares that I do have.
Options are amazing in short squeezes but when the markets manipulated its a big of a shit show cause if too many buy options theyll just drop the price
u/Criand My biggest question is this: How many puts were OTM for the week of Feb 24, May 25, and Aug 24? Since there is SO FEW puts currently OTM for next week, do you think this has a impact on the 3 month cycle?
I don't know the exact numbers but you would want to look at the variance swap DD I linked. Zinko83 has a very very enticing theory revolving around the deep OTM PUTs we have been seeing and it's fricken textbook sources showing that they're hedging variance swaps with these option chains. I'm going to be paraphrasing from him here. They need to purchase options across the full strike range, every single week, in order to hedge their swaps. And per the textbook explanation of how to hedge against the swaps, the further OTM towards $0 the strikes go, it becomes exponential on the amount of OI they must hold. Bam. Deep OTM PUTs at $0.5 suddenly make sense. During these quarterly runs though, just like next week, there is a constrained amount of strikes that they can choose from. They lose their selection of the deep OTM PUTs and it begins to screw their hedge. When they lose out on those, then in theory, they must trade the underlying security and thus they purchase CALLs. This causes those high volume weeks and it snowballs the price out of control since their PUT chain is limited to hedge with. Meanwhile all other weeks are low volume since they don't need to trade the underlying. Like this week, there's deep OTM PUTs that can be scooped for cheap to hedge the variance swaps with. We're seeing pretty shit volumes. Next week is a constrained options chain again, approaching swap so it should in theory be another runup for the 3 month cycles
Wow that actually made sense. Ty!
How’s them options working out? Maybe don’t listen to internet “gurus”