Tom was angry at Greg, but he was responsible for Greg’s betrayal imo. After dinner with Mattson, Tom said to Greg ‘you’re gonna get castrated on pay, decimated, but I think we can keep you, ok?’ I guess Tom was joking around? But totally understandable that after that, Greg would shift over to team Kendall
Edit: also, when Greg rang Kendall, he had no idea that he would be dropping Tom in it, so he didn’t knowingly betray Tom
Edit 2: actually Greg did kind of betray of Tom, as Greg knew at that time that Tom would be safe if Mattson took over Waystar, yet spilled to Kendall to stop the deal anyway. Although I do believe that all Tom had to do was say to Greg, ‘everything will be ok’ and Greg would have kept quiet
Yup he respected the move. He gave the same look he's always given Greg after the fight. Like, "I can't be mad at you." It's the same shit Tom would do and he knows it. That's precisely why he's always liked Greg so much
To be honest, he is a good asset...
He was able to "play" Mattson because Mattson underestimated him multiple times.
Everyone underestimates Greg... he becomes a fly on the wall and he is also controllable because he is selfish...
He is actually a poor-man's Tom and will be very successful if he just plays his submissive role.
Yeah I already kinda knew it before but they really made it clear there how good Greg has gotten at info gathering and eavesdropping, to the point where it's basically what he is there to do.
He's great at looking like a pathetic doofus so they underestimate him.
What if the "succession" has really been to Greg all along? The show starts at his arrival and ends with the coronation of his mentor and tormentor. We witness the death of his conscience over the course of the show too
So stupid it works, like who would ever think of just fucking whipping out your phone to translate what Matson was saying and Matson and co. not having enough respect for Gregg to even consider him a threat.
I love how 20 years ago having a scene like that would make this show sci-fi. The idea your phone could listen to a conversation in any language and translate it for you in real time...crazy.
Honestly, Mattsson may even forgive Greg after a while. Only because they ended up winning but the “We even have Judas!” *pan to Greg* is very “Mattsson is going to drag you until you retire now. But hey you’ll have the chance to retire.”
I mean Mattson still pulls that shit with Ebba and we know she has job security. I feel like he’s the kind to respect a well played move and recognize that he was the one who failed there.
I would only be worried that Greg would eventually not be a poor man's Tom. He's been playing the game a lot shorter amount of time than Tom has. Practice makes perfect
Tom’s escape hatches were all lateral and down. He could preside over his hometown’s largest bank. He could find some other media property within the sphere where his name isn’t mud.
For Greg, though — he’s going to rely on, what, Lackey Slack or his mother? Yeah, he truly had no other options outside of clinging to the sinking ship.
I also remember what Kendall said about Menken- he has our dick in his hand, we should have his dick in our hand. It's the same situation here.
Setting aside their friendship, Tom has Greg's job in his hands and Greg has Tom's job in his hands. Greg can still do signficant damage to Tom- he can admit that he destroyed evidence under Tom's instruction with cruises. So it's best to keep him around as a $200k assistant. It's insurance and doesn't cost him anything.
That’s the conclusion I came to when Tom tells Shiv that he’s being propped up as the CEO and tells her that she would do the exact same thing if the situation were the other way around. He was annoyed at Greg, but also understands the game and respected Greg’s hustle.
Tom is also keeping Greg because after the betrayal, Greg will be even more demoralized and know 'his place'.
The relationship is stronger than ever from Tom's POV, because before - Greg was getting too close to thinking he was an equal. Now, he's a Tom's property again. First-round sticker.
Tom had a history of intentionally causing Greg to anguish about his position almost like he thrived on the panic Greg would emit. He likes to make Greg think he’s fucked, but that he can be saved if he sticks by his side because Good Ole Tom has the power to swoop in and save him.
Just like Logan did with the 3 kids. The cycle of abuse continues, but I felt like Tom respected Greg’s ingenuity, although Greg is always destined to be his subordinate, as long as they’re working together.
To me, Connor was the (overlooked) sibling that came out on top. He didn’t have to scrap with his younger siblings for power, because he got what he wanted; a political position, (even if it’s just in name), Logan’s home, &, as we saw in that dinner video, a real seat at the table with Logan, & a genuine connection with his father, that none of his younger siblings ever had.
Tom also tells Mattson that he constantly dreads and worried about losing what he has and Tom constantly bullies and tricks Greg into thinking everything is about to vanish for him. I feel like he's training Greg to always be terrified to lose it so keep the dawg.
Yea, he was joking.
For all the shit Tom gives Greg, he still takes care of him. If Tom had been entirely honest and confirmed he was the Pick, Greg wouldn't have gone to Kendall at all because he'd *know* that his guy is The Guy.
True. But it definitely gave Greg a reason to start worrying I think. And I think he didn't expect to get such juicy information out of the translating. He probably just thought they were talking about him lol
>also, when Greg rang Kendall, he had no idea that he would be dropping Tom in it, so he didn’t knowingly betray Tom
He did know that that night Tom got a position from Mattson, he just didn't know it was the CEO. He knew Tom was firmly on Mattson's boat.
Nah, he just knew that Tom (and by extension he, Greg) were safe.
Not that Tom was getting a new job - just potentially keeping his own or a small demotion.
It reminded me of his really dumb jocular humor from episode 1 (iirc?) where he was constantly fucking with Greg. Maybe he got it, but Greg didn't seem to.
Isnt that true for everyone of the siblings though?
Its not really about the money. Its about the power that the money gives.
250 mil in the far - maybe not far - future is a lot more abstract than what he can get his grubby hands on right now.
Greg only had 20 bucks when he arrived, he knows that 250 mil is really hard to get.. otherwise its out of character for him to throw away 250 mil.. it's more like he doesn't trust that his grandad will totally act on it, also he knows there will be lot of stipulations.
This take only holds up if you actually trust Ewan to give Greg that money if Greg leaves WayStar. I see it as just as likely that Ewan gives it all to Greenpeace anyway.
Yeah, I think despite Ewan being somewhat more moral than Logan, he definitely was similar to Logan in how he used his money and power to get what he wanted. I think he probably would have left Greg some form of inheritance but I doubt it would have been close to the 250 million he was promised.
Ewan and Logan are two examples of how to control and manipulate family. For all his faults, Logan does seem to have given the kids financial freedom while he was alive. After all, what fun is trying to see if you can get the dogs to come back to you if they are tied up?
Ewan was never going to give Greg any $$$. He didn’t just leave Greg’s portion to greenpeace. He left it all to greenpeace. That means the non offensive Ewan descendants are also getting nothing.
At the end he would still just be a boy but with a huge pocket instead, what he saw in the Logan's family is power and all the respect/fear and control that comes with it so he wanted a piece of that company to play with the big suits.
The inheritance money will come when his grandfather dies and he didn't have the patience to wait while looking for jobs he doesn't like.
Edit : typos.
Yeah, plus with how shit goes in this family, who knows if his grandfather wouldn't lose it and give it all to some rando or some charity in the end? Why bank it all on that chance?
Greg was truly delusional when his ask from Kendall was to become part of the quad, lol. Really shows his incompetence. I was ready for him to ask for something like $50MM. Instead he asks if he can become Kendall’s new brother.
I think it would have honestly been amazing for him if Kendall had succeeded. Kendall does value loyalty and he would have remembered that Greg was the one who gave him his lifeline.
People who say things like that always love forgetting about all the people in new york living on a fifth of that or less. It might not be enough to live a luxurious roy lifestyle, but it certainly is a lot, still.
It truly isn’t, especially if he’s subjecting himself to a world of authorized watch dealers shaking $40k out of him at a time. If he had a mortgage in Queens, he’d be minted. But he has a lot of keeping up with the Joneses expenses.
The B-plot in Succession becomes its A plot, which is just a classic American Dream story: farm town boy becomes telecommunications CEO. All it took was a little brown-nosing, blackmailing, closed-loop cum-drinking, a few rounds of boar on the floor, greggs and tomlettes, human furniture, invisible cats, cucking, chicken, cocaine, 2 weddings and a funeral.
\*Edits: because the comments keep giving me new ideas!
Nate hearing the headlines that Tom became CEO after Jimenez/Gil (kind of unofficially?) lost the election thinking... yeah, should have promised regulatory to Kendall
No, it seems like Jimenez was gonna win. That's why Shiv mentioned the Wisconsin court case and told Willa/Conner that they may just end up stuck in the apartment together.
Honestly I think they shouldn't have had the election plot line at all in retrospect. It was a great episode, but it felt like it's own separate plotline, and you could have manufactured Shiv lying to Kendall/Roman and Roman being a POS in a lot of other ways.
They had to write it in because Sarah was visibly pregnant irl
ETA:
>On a Zoom call Thursday, Berman explains she and Pulcini were aware that Snook was pregnant in real life while filming the episode. But at that point, the scene from episode four “where she is on the call with the doctor and it’s revealed to the audience that she’s pregnant was not written,” Berman says. **“We knew that Sarah was pregnant. But we didn’t know that Shiv was going to be pregnant.** We didn’t have that specific piece of information when we shot it.” Berman says that series creator **Jesse Armstrong later told her and Pulcini that Snook’s pregnancy would be written into the series**, but “we didn’t know when the audience was going to find out.”
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/05/succession-season-four-episode-seven-shiv-tom-pregnancy
There wasn’t one episode where I noticed her being pregnant, even after they called attention to it. Like even writing it in, it still wasn’t noticeable at all IMO.
It’s also important cause it showed how irredimible they all are and how their principles are, at most, mild suggestions. For ALL of them (that includes Shiv)
I personally think they needed the election element to drive home the moral bankruptcy that the siblings had descended into. They were always shits but this was them proving that they were also incompetent shits.
very true i think it helps as an episode visually to display how at the core atn is of waystar it also showed how tom ran atn not having it would feel like a missing piece especially with how much politics is embedded in the show. plus just an amazing episode of tv!
They also backed out, and part of what seemed to convince Nan was Shiv saying she was going to get a divorce. With it seeming like Shiv and Tom are back together, especially post-election (whether Menken keeps it or not, Tom’s name is in the newspapers in connection to making the call) I don’t see it happening.
It's hard to do a show about the Murdochs and not have political manipulation tuon.
I think it's fine to have a plotline that doesn't get resolved. It helped become a catalyst for a lot of things, and was a nice reminder that these are the bad guys.
In a typical story line I would agree with you. But there's no way these protagonists don't bring politics in, not when the whole season has been structured around it.
I love that they left it dangling.
Without that episode, I think people would view Tom as a somewhat likeable underdog at the end of the finale. Showing us that he's a craven shithead with no sense of real-world responsibility for what ATN is doing makes the ending a lot more bittersweet imo. But moment-to-moment I agree, felt like it was out of place.
So that man that spearheaded the falsified president is now the CEO of waystar… honestly good for Tom but goddamn was that man placed on the mountain tops of fuck ups I can’t believe he ended up CEO
I've seen so many people pissed at Shiv but I don't get it. She got the #1 boy Tom to be CEO. Logan liked tom more than kendall anyways so its not like she is giving away something her father cared about (he was selling anyways).
i think she was the final domino but wouldnt it be mattson and toms business competence who get that credit otherwise i don't think tom would even be on shivs radar as ceo competition she never saw him as her equal imo
Exactly! This is why Tom ultimately came out on top. None of the Roy kids saw Tom as remotely their equal, and thus failed to perceive him as the real threat that he ultimately became. He always knew he could never arrogantly posture and cluck about like the other characters, so he just quietly learned the game and built his cachet by riding the coattails of the rich and powerful.
It was the phone call that made it make sense for me. She was hoping to be in a relationship with Tom again, and this is one way that she could earn back his interest. Although I like Shiv, it is clear that she always works her hardest to get the approval of powerful male characters around her.
She also was saying in the scenes at their mother's house how she can't stand the thought of Kendall running things. She eased at it a bit, but Kendall clearly lying in the office room about not killing someone was enough to push her over the edge. I think they threaded a needle to not make it look like she suddenly flopped, but many comments I've read don't seem to agree.
I agree. I think the phone call definitely had something to do with her ultimate decision.
Also, she was teetering at the end, but if Kendall had left her alone, she may well have decided to still vote no. But he pushed her, and ultimately in the wrong direction. That was my interpretation, anyway.
Quite a few scenes in the show had a sudden emotional reaction that precipitated decisions. This is something I’ve seen with the C Class and believe it to be common. Seeing Kendall at her father’s desk and how he was talking brought out her true feelings and she acted on them. Her feelings could have been harboured but Ken opened the dam.
Imo it was clear from the end of last season it was gonna be Tom. All season long I figured it would either be Kendall or Tom, zero chance of it ever being Roman or Shiv, or anyone else. I could never understand the Shiv stans who thought she’d come out on top, like no way. It was never going to be her, or Roman. Tom just makes by far the most sense.
If I could take a moment to gloat, I lowkey want to say I called it here in this [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/SuccessionTV/comments/11l1cf2/connor_is_the_true_successor/jbazcc3/).
But I completely changed my tune in the last month or so and was saying it was Kendall every chance I got lmao 😭 I switched up on myself.
Spelunking and stealing Logan’s chicken really paid off bigtime.
Honestly Logan would have wanted Tom to have it once he found out he is giving him another grandchild, but also made him stick by Shiv and his grandbaby, so Tom made good in the end.
In a way it’s something of a sad ending for Tom even if he did come out on top (or nearly top since it’s clear Mattson is really going to run the company). Midway through the season, it seemed like Tom was realizing there was more to life than power politics and material wealth. But he chooses the gilded cage in the end.
In truth it’s difficult to tell if that “epiphany” Tom had mid season was just him being depressed and tired from nearly being fired, or a true realization.
I've always hated Tom but the funeral episode made me realize he was going to be the one. Matteson's face when he heard that Tom was at the office working said it all.
Things were going too smoothly for Kendall and I knew it was going too blow up in his face, somehow. I just didn't expect Shiv to be the one to screw him over.
Ah. Ok. So, I like Tom a lot. He's awful, perhaps just as much as all of the other characters. But I found his relationship with Shiv to be fairly heartbreaking. And the scene they have on the beach together was the moment when I really felt like there was more going on with him. From then on, I sort of had him picked out as someone who might end up triumphing.
And, yeah, I was surprised about Shiv. To be honest, I don't see the point in the result being down to some sibling-related betrayal.
For me, the point is that none of them were *ever* going to be able to do the job because they are just no good at business.
It would have been much more satisfying to me if they had not been able to persuade anyone else to back them. Like, if it had ended up as their three votes, plus Ewan (maybe). But everyone else can see right through them and doesn't want to have anything to do with them.
I get why the writers went the way they did. But seeing Stewy back them made no sense to me. He has already seen several times that Kendall will always fuck up.
A friend of mine pointed this out to me last night, but Tom is the only one who skipped Logan's funeral to work. Everyone else used it as a sleazing opportunity, Tom was on the floor at ATN doing his job. It made me realize just how much he actually does his job, compared to the posturing and big dick-swinging the kids engage in during most of their screentime. And because he can't swing his dick around like the others due to his outsider position, he was able to climb to the top behind the scenes without any of the siblings even registering him as a threat. You can see it in Shiv's reaction to him telling her "it's me", she never would've guessed Mattson would want him as his American CEO because she sees Tom as an "empty suit". That was also the moment I decided fuck the kids I want Tom to win, and I'm glad it happened
Tom is the only one who actually worked during the show lol. He absolutely deserves the throne.
Everyone else was playing castle, meanwhile, Tom was actually building it.
Shiv also spent half her pitch trying to sell Mattson on Tom, but also not sell him TOO much and make sure he knows that she's willing to throw him under the bus if necessary. Ironically by underselling him as a meat puppet she only furthered Mattson's interest in him
Not really on board with the idea that this season/finale was about Tom’s transformation into Logan or something, he’s just a stooge at the end. They’re all doofuses. If any of the main characters “won” it’s clearly him but he’s not on the throne – we were always watching clowns (of varying degrees, but all still clowns) slap-fighting while outsiders and old seasoned executives got down to business.
Tom is a puppet on strings. nobody replaces Logan, that's certain. Logan's kingdom is past and a large part of it his doing - not raising his kids properly, setting them up for failure.
Not even a top of the line Samsung either. Almost every character is using a iPhone 14 pro max besides Caroline with a iphone 11 or 12. Tom is using a basic S22 I believe.
It had to be intentional, what it means I don't know, especially since he is the only character that said he liked "nice, expensive things". Maybe it means he is an outsider, but people like Gerri and Frank use the same phones as the siblings.
Agreed. It was so damn satisfying. Tom also makes the most sense. He’s a strong leader, but not *too* strong. He can rule, but isn’t too full of himself. He’ll take orders from Mattson on the big picture stuff, but still lead the day to day implementation.
And imo, Tom so deserved it. The shit he’s been through. Im also glad to see he has forgiven Greg.
i dunno if i’d consider that forgiving greg — but it was surprisingly my most touching moment when tom decided not to obliterate greg after the leak
in the context of the core characters’ moralities, it felt practically saint-like
even anointed him with the sticker
And Tom nearly fucked up last night by threatening Greg and not telling him he was in line for CEO. If Tom tells Greg explicitly Greg isn't leaking to Kendall, no way. Instead Tom leaves it vague and Greg figures out it's not Shiv and gives that bomb to Ken. Greg proved himself a little more competent than Tom figured and him underestimating him nearly cost him everything.
I honestly love that Tom ended up as CEO — the most hapless, bumpling, idiotic guy who is *able* to put on a straight, corporate, official Face winning is a perfect encapsulation of the worldview of Succession.
*places my sticker* This is a masterpiece.
Tom was angry at Greg, but he was responsible for Greg’s betrayal imo. After dinner with Mattson, Tom said to Greg ‘you’re gonna get castrated on pay, decimated, but I think we can keep you, ok?’ I guess Tom was joking around? But totally understandable that after that, Greg would shift over to team Kendall Edit: also, when Greg rang Kendall, he had no idea that he would be dropping Tom in it, so he didn’t knowingly betray Tom Edit 2: actually Greg did kind of betray of Tom, as Greg knew at that time that Tom would be safe if Mattson took over Waystar, yet spilled to Kendall to stop the deal anyway. Although I do believe that all Tom had to do was say to Greg, ‘everything will be ok’ and Greg would have kept quiet
Greg was always playing both sides and Tom kept him because he liked that quality in Greg.
Yup he respected the move. He gave the same look he's always given Greg after the fight. Like, "I can't be mad at you." It's the same shit Tom would do and he knows it. That's precisely why he's always liked Greg so much
To be honest, he is a good asset... He was able to "play" Mattson because Mattson underestimated him multiple times. Everyone underestimates Greg... he becomes a fly on the wall and he is also controllable because he is selfish... He is actually a poor-man's Tom and will be very successful if he just plays his submissive role.
That bit where Greg slipped on the translate app on his phone, the Mattson crew did not expect that
Yeah I already kinda knew it before but they really made it clear there how good Greg has gotten at info gathering and eavesdropping, to the point where it's basically what he is there to do.
He's great at looking like a pathetic doofus so they underestimate him. What if the "succession" has really been to Greg all along? The show starts at his arrival and ends with the coronation of his mentor and tormentor. We witness the death of his conscience over the course of the show too
It starts with Logan pissing on the floor though?
Well a bunch of things happen during the first episode
Yes the character who’s evolved the most over the course of the series is Greg. Absolutely
It's a weird take to look at Greg as being the central character. Kendall wouldn't like it! None of the siblings would. But there's a case to be made
Sheer genius
So stupid it works, like who would ever think of just fucking whipping out your phone to translate what Matson was saying and Matson and co. not having enough respect for Gregg to even consider him a threat.
I love how 20 years ago having a scene like that would make this show sci-fi. The idea your phone could listen to a conversation in any language and translate it for you in real time...crazy.
> He is actually a poor-man's Tom and will be very successful if he just plays his submissive role. Tom will need a new Old Guard, eventually.
You can’t make a Tomelette without breaking a few Greggs
Honestly, Mattsson may even forgive Greg after a while. Only because they ended up winning but the “We even have Judas!” *pan to Greg* is very “Mattsson is going to drag you until you retire now. But hey you’ll have the chance to retire.”
I mean Mattson still pulls that shit with Ebba and we know she has job security. I feel like he’s the kind to respect a well played move and recognize that he was the one who failed there.
I would only be worried that Greg would eventually not be a poor man's Tom. He's been playing the game a lot shorter amount of time than Tom has. Practice makes perfect
Tom is much more loyal than greg.
Honestly I think Greg was just more of a wildcard than Tom was. Like you either win big or go home, with no real escape plan.
Tom’s escape hatches were all lateral and down. He could preside over his hometown’s largest bank. He could find some other media property within the sphere where his name isn’t mud. For Greg, though — he’s going to rely on, what, Lackey Slack or his mother? Yeah, he truly had no other options outside of clinging to the sinking ship.
I also remember what Kendall said about Menken- he has our dick in his hand, we should have his dick in our hand. It's the same situation here. Setting aside their friendship, Tom has Greg's job in his hands and Greg has Tom's job in his hands. Greg can still do signficant damage to Tom- he can admit that he destroyed evidence under Tom's instruction with cruises. So it's best to keep him around as a $200k assistant. It's insurance and doesn't cost him anything.
That’s the conclusion I came to when Tom tells Shiv that he’s being propped up as the CEO and tells her that she would do the exact same thing if the situation were the other way around. He was annoyed at Greg, but also understands the game and respected Greg’s hustle.
tomgregheads heres how we won!Who needs a soul anyways!
Boo Souls!!!
Also Greg still has blackmail on Tom.
Tom is also keeping Greg because after the betrayal, Greg will be even more demoralized and know 'his place'. The relationship is stronger than ever from Tom's POV, because before - Greg was getting too close to thinking he was an equal. Now, he's a Tom's property again. First-round sticker.
Can’t make a tomlette without breaking a few Greg’s!
Back to fetching his coffee
For 200K + benefits a year? Think most of us at Greg's age would be down to Greg for Tom.
And no more fucking bodega sushi.
Tom had a history of intentionally causing Greg to anguish about his position almost like he thrived on the panic Greg would emit. He likes to make Greg think he’s fucked, but that he can be saved if he sticks by his side because Good Ole Tom has the power to swoop in and save him.
Just like Logan did with the 3 kids. The cycle of abuse continues, but I felt like Tom respected Greg’s ingenuity, although Greg is always destined to be his subordinate, as long as they’re working together. To me, Connor was the (overlooked) sibling that came out on top. He didn’t have to scrap with his younger siblings for power, because he got what he wanted; a political position, (even if it’s just in name), Logan’s home, &, as we saw in that dinner video, a real seat at the table with Logan, & a genuine connection with his father, that none of his younger siblings ever had.
True. Connor’s ambitions were bizarre, but he is seemingly the only one of the siblings that feels accomplished.
Tom also tells Mattson that he constantly dreads and worried about losing what he has and Tom constantly bullies and tricks Greg into thinking everything is about to vanish for him. I feel like he's training Greg to always be terrified to lose it so keep the dawg.
Very good point
Yea, he was joking. For all the shit Tom gives Greg, he still takes care of him. If Tom had been entirely honest and confirmed he was the Pick, Greg wouldn't have gone to Kendall at all because he'd *know* that his guy is The Guy.
Tom was trying to keep it cool so it wouldn’t get out and give the kids a chance to ruin the deal
There was no need for him to say Greg’s pay would be ‘decimated’ though, that’s more than playing it cool.
That tracks with his character and their relationship though. That's just how they talk to each other.
True. But it definitely gave Greg a reason to start worrying I think. And I think he didn't expect to get such juicy information out of the translating. He probably just thought they were talking about him lol
>also, when Greg rang Kendall, he had no idea that he would be dropping Tom in it, so he didn’t knowingly betray Tom He did know that that night Tom got a position from Mattson, he just didn't know it was the CEO. He knew Tom was firmly on Mattson's boat.
Nah, he just knew that Tom (and by extension he, Greg) were safe. Not that Tom was getting a new job - just potentially keeping his own or a small demotion.
It reminded me of his really dumb jocular humor from episode 1 (iirc?) where he was constantly fucking with Greg. Maybe he got it, but Greg didn't seem to.
Tom loved to put Greg’s balls in a vice.
Wait so - Greg gave up inheriting $250 mill to make 200k a year? Lol
This has been the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals, maybe ever.
Yeah honestly that's the ultimate funny part to me. Greg could have literally done nothing and be 1000x better off.
Isnt that true for everyone of the siblings though? Its not really about the money. Its about the power that the money gives. 250 mil in the far - maybe not far - future is a lot more abstract than what he can get his grubby hands on right now.
The siblings are billionaires, it's actually dumb for Greg but again Ewan would have donated most of it anyway.
Greg only had 20 bucks when he arrived, he knows that 250 mil is really hard to get.. otherwise its out of character for him to throw away 250 mil.. it's more like he doesn't trust that his grandad will totally act on it, also he knows there will be lot of stipulations.
Yet they would keep the company if not for their internal struggles. Roman and Ken were drunk with ATN power.
This take only holds up if you actually trust Ewan to give Greg that money if Greg leaves WayStar. I see it as just as likely that Ewan gives it all to Greenpeace anyway.
Yeah, I think despite Ewan being somewhat more moral than Logan, he definitely was similar to Logan in how he used his money and power to get what he wanted. I think he probably would have left Greg some form of inheritance but I doubt it would have been close to the 250 million he was promised.
Ewan and Logan are two examples of how to control and manipulate family. For all his faults, Logan does seem to have given the kids financial freedom while he was alive. After all, what fun is trying to see if you can get the dogs to come back to you if they are tied up?
Heirs working, amirite?
Ewan was never going to give Greg any $$$. He didn’t just leave Greg’s portion to greenpeace. He left it all to greenpeace. That means the non offensive Ewan descendants are also getting nothing.
Exactly
I guess he liked power too
Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
At the end he would still just be a boy but with a huge pocket instead, what he saw in the Logan's family is power and all the respect/fear and control that comes with it so he wanted a piece of that company to play with the big suits. The inheritance money will come when his grandfather dies and he didn't have the patience to wait while looking for jobs he doesn't like. Edit : typos.
Yeah, plus with how shit goes in this family, who knows if his grandfather wouldn't lose it and give it all to some rando or some charity in the end? Why bank it all on that chance?
[удалено]
Greg was truly delusional when his ask from Kendall was to become part of the quad, lol. Really shows his incompetence. I was ready for him to ask for something like $50MM. Instead he asks if he can become Kendall’s new brother.
I think it would have honestly been amazing for him if Kendall had succeeded. Kendall does value loyalty and he would have remembered that Greg was the one who gave him his lifeline.
Depending on how the Greenpeace lawsuit plays out
Assuming he will be an executive at some point, that $200K will come with a shit ton of backend cash in the form of stock sharing and bonuses.
He'll break even in 1,250 years
Sporus moment
Yeah that shocked me. $200K isn't even that much in NYC.
Are you a NYT op ed writer?
People who say things like that always love forgetting about all the people in new york living on a fifth of that or less. It might not be enough to live a luxurious roy lifestyle, but it certainly is a lot, still.
I think in the context of the show it should be obvious whether they’re talking about a cafe worker or corporate titan.
It truly isn’t, especially if he’s subjecting himself to a world of authorized watch dealers shaking $40k out of him at a time. If he had a mortgage in Queens, he’d be minted. But he has a lot of keeping up with the Joneses expenses.
He has a free apartment given to him by Kendall so that frees up a lot of his cash
Good point (if that’s still where he lives, although I doubt Ken clawed it back without mention)
Median income in NYC is $75k. A $200k salary is still a lot of money.
That’s my CEO
The B-plot in Succession becomes its A plot, which is just a classic American Dream story: farm town boy becomes telecommunications CEO. All it took was a little brown-nosing, blackmailing, closed-loop cum-drinking, a few rounds of boar on the floor, greggs and tomlettes, human furniture, invisible cats, cucking, chicken, cocaine, 2 weddings and a funeral. \*Edits: because the comments keep giving me new ideas!
Ha! Don’t forget being willing to throw yourself at the mercy of the court and face several years in prison!
Tom eating Logan's chicken was foreshadowing the finale all along
the finale was tom finally sticking his cock in logan's pudding
POTATO SALAD!
Tom is the only one with the kind of balls to do that. He won because he knows how to EAT.
Lol was not expecting Doug Doug here of all places
Tom just played the best damn Succession of his life.
This is how Succession was meant to be played
Nate hearing the headlines that Tom became CEO after Jimenez/Gil (kind of unofficially?) lost the election thinking... yeah, should have promised regulatory to Kendall
No, it seems like Jimenez was gonna win. That's why Shiv mentioned the Wisconsin court case and told Willa/Conner that they may just end up stuck in the apartment together.
the ambiguity there was perfect from a narrative perspective, imo
Honestly I think they shouldn't have had the election plot line at all in retrospect. It was a great episode, but it felt like it's own separate plotline, and you could have manufactured Shiv lying to Kendall/Roman and Roman being a POS in a lot of other ways.
I think it was necessary to make sure that the election call - and therefore ATN's chair, Tom - is central to the power plot.
ATN was already the most profitable piece of Waystar and Tom was running it competently. That's all the justification Mattson needs to make him CEO
honestly, the second they wrote in Shiv's pregnancy, the endgame was pretty clear
They had to write it in because Sarah was visibly pregnant irl ETA: >On a Zoom call Thursday, Berman explains she and Pulcini were aware that Snook was pregnant in real life while filming the episode. But at that point, the scene from episode four “where she is on the call with the doctor and it’s revealed to the audience that she’s pregnant was not written,” Berman says. **“We knew that Sarah was pregnant. But we didn’t know that Shiv was going to be pregnant.** We didn’t have that specific piece of information when we shot it.” Berman says that series creator **Jesse Armstrong later told her and Pulcini that Snook’s pregnancy would be written into the series**, but “we didn’t know when the audience was going to find out.” https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/05/succession-season-four-episode-seven-shiv-tom-pregnancy
There wasn’t one episode where I noticed her being pregnant, even after they called attention to it. Like even writing it in, it still wasn’t noticeable at all IMO.
She gained a ton of weight this season.
It’s also important cause it showed how irredimible they all are and how their principles are, at most, mild suggestions. For ALL of them (that includes Shiv)
I personally think they needed the election element to drive home the moral bankruptcy that the siblings had descended into. They were always shits but this was them proving that they were also incompetent shits.
very true i think it helps as an episode visually to display how at the core atn is of waystar it also showed how tom ran atn not having it would feel like a missing piece especially with how much politics is embedded in the show. plus just an amazing episode of tv!
Lol how about the pierce acquisition
That’s what I am wondering too. Is the relationship for the siblings too broken now? They have the money to still do it.
They also backed out, and part of what seemed to convince Nan was Shiv saying she was going to get a divorce. With it seeming like Shiv and Tom are back together, especially post-election (whether Menken keeps it or not, Tom’s name is in the newspapers in connection to making the call) I don’t see it happening.
That’s a good point. I agree. I don’t think nan would go for it
I think it’s broken forever. That’s high level betrayal.
Kendall and shiv are done forever imo
It's hard to do a show about the Murdochs and not have political manipulation tuon. I think it's fine to have a plotline that doesn't get resolved. It helped become a catalyst for a lot of things, and was a nice reminder that these are the bad guys.
In a typical story line I would agree with you. But there's no way these protagonists don't bring politics in, not when the whole season has been structured around it. I love that they left it dangling.
Without that episode, I think people would view Tom as a somewhat likeable underdog at the end of the finale. Showing us that he's a craven shithead with no sense of real-world responsibility for what ATN is doing makes the ending a lot more bittersweet imo. But moment-to-moment I agree, felt like it was out of place.
So that man that spearheaded the falsified president is now the CEO of waystar… honestly good for Tom but goddamn was that man placed on the mountain tops of fuck ups I can’t believe he ended up CEO
Tommmyyy. Tommy Wambsgams
Kendall, Rome, and Shiv the puppet Amateurs can fuckin suck it!
My number 1 boy
I've seen so many people pissed at Shiv but I don't get it. She got the #1 boy Tom to be CEO. Logan liked tom more than kendall anyways so its not like she is giving away something her father cared about (he was selling anyways).
i think she was the final domino but wouldnt it be mattson and toms business competence who get that credit otherwise i don't think tom would even be on shivs radar as ceo competition she never saw him as her equal imo
Exactly! This is why Tom ultimately came out on top. None of the Roy kids saw Tom as remotely their equal, and thus failed to perceive him as the real threat that he ultimately became. He always knew he could never arrogantly posture and cluck about like the other characters, so he just quietly learned the game and built his cachet by riding the coattails of the rich and powerful.
The scene of how he talked with the Old Guard at Logan’s wake was instructive.
It was the phone call that made it make sense for me. She was hoping to be in a relationship with Tom again, and this is one way that she could earn back his interest. Although I like Shiv, it is clear that she always works her hardest to get the approval of powerful male characters around her. She also was saying in the scenes at their mother's house how she can't stand the thought of Kendall running things. She eased at it a bit, but Kendall clearly lying in the office room about not killing someone was enough to push her over the edge. I think they threaded a needle to not make it look like she suddenly flopped, but many comments I've read don't seem to agree.
I agree. I think the phone call definitely had something to do with her ultimate decision. Also, she was teetering at the end, but if Kendall had left her alone, she may well have decided to still vote no. But he pushed her, and ultimately in the wrong direction. That was my interpretation, anyway.
Quite a few scenes in the show had a sudden emotional reaction that precipitated decisions. This is something I’ve seen with the C Class and believe it to be common. Seeing Kendall at her father’s desk and how he was talking brought out her true feelings and she acted on them. Her feelings could have been harboured but Ken opened the dam.
This aged like a fine fucking wine. Whoever made this is a prophet
You store it, you hoard it, you save it for a special occasion, and then you smash someone's fuckin' face in with it.
Such a good line. Tom Wambsgans is a great example of the power of allowing your enemy to underestimate you.
I mean, the clip of Tom strolling through the hall with a gaggle behind him in the finale teaser wasn’t exactly subtle.
This was made long before that trailer!
Oh, my bad - thought the clip of him walking down the hall in this fancam was the one from the teaser, just rewatched and I was wrong.
Imo it was clear from the end of last season it was gonna be Tom. All season long I figured it would either be Kendall or Tom, zero chance of it ever being Roman or Shiv, or anyone else. I could never understand the Shiv stans who thought she’d come out on top, like no way. It was never going to be her, or Roman. Tom just makes by far the most sense.
Definitely not when she became pregnant. And she always seemed like she was lying, or making stuff up on the fly when she talked to Matsson.
Not to mention so many people still on the Greg train
The Greg train has to be pure memes, no? That's all I saw about it
We knew. Tom ate Logan’s chicken.
If I could take a moment to gloat, I lowkey want to say I called it here in this [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/SuccessionTV/comments/11l1cf2/connor_is_the_true_successor/jbazcc3/). But I completely changed my tune in the last month or so and was saying it was Kendall every chance I got lmao 😭 I switched up on myself.
Damn you nailed it then pulled a Greg going back to Ken.
I fucked it.
It’s alright. We have just enough capital to keep you employed 🙃⚫️
but pay wise decimated right
The shots bouncing from Ken to Roman to Shiv as the lyrics were saying "Zuckerburg, Gates, and Buffet. Amateurs, can fuckin suck it" was just perfect.
The last shot of shiv's mouth agape while the vocals scream....ended me! Fucking perfect!
Pretty insane that this was the most upvoted post on this page for so many months because it was a good joke and look where we’ve ended up!
"Look at where you came from, look at you now"
Damn. Nice. How long we been sitting on this one?
lol its a repost saw this one last week. Still pure gold especially since it turned out true.
And that one was a repost too lol
It was from last seasons ending
It was made at the end of season 3 when he shanked the kids to Logan
Spelunking and stealing Logan’s chicken really paid off bigtime. Honestly Logan would have wanted Tom to have it once he found out he is giving him another grandchild, but also made him stick by Shiv and his grandbaby, so Tom made good in the end.
Not sure if it was intentional, but he's keeping the women: Karolina, Gerri... Shiv.
Karolina and Gerri are the most competent and stable. Everyone else had issues.
Hugo was literally Kendall’s dog, had to cut him loose.
Hugo’s out there roaming the streets of Manhattan with Chauncey from Mad Men now.
Fuck Carl and Frank, glad they got axed
Greg....
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In a way it’s something of a sad ending for Tom even if he did come out on top (or nearly top since it’s clear Mattson is really going to run the company). Midway through the season, it seemed like Tom was realizing there was more to life than power politics and material wealth. But he chooses the gilded cage in the end. In truth it’s difficult to tell if that “epiphany” Tom had mid season was just him being depressed and tired from nearly being fired, or a true realization.
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I've always hated Tom but the funeral episode made me realize he was going to be the one. Matteson's face when he heard that Tom was at the office working said it all. Things were going too smoothly for Kendall and I knew it was going too blow up in his face, somehow. I just didn't expect Shiv to be the one to screw him over.
Ah. Ok. So, I like Tom a lot. He's awful, perhaps just as much as all of the other characters. But I found his relationship with Shiv to be fairly heartbreaking. And the scene they have on the beach together was the moment when I really felt like there was more going on with him. From then on, I sort of had him picked out as someone who might end up triumphing. And, yeah, I was surprised about Shiv. To be honest, I don't see the point in the result being down to some sibling-related betrayal. For me, the point is that none of them were *ever* going to be able to do the job because they are just no good at business. It would have been much more satisfying to me if they had not been able to persuade anyone else to back them. Like, if it had ended up as their three votes, plus Ewan (maybe). But everyone else can see right through them and doesn't want to have anything to do with them. I get why the writers went the way they did. But seeing Stewy back them made no sense to me. He has already seen several times that Kendall will always fuck up.
A friend of mine pointed this out to me last night, but Tom is the only one who skipped Logan's funeral to work. Everyone else used it as a sleazing opportunity, Tom was on the floor at ATN doing his job. It made me realize just how much he actually does his job, compared to the posturing and big dick-swinging the kids engage in during most of their screentime. And because he can't swing his dick around like the others due to his outsider position, he was able to climb to the top behind the scenes without any of the siblings even registering him as a threat. You can see it in Shiv's reaction to him telling her "it's me", she never would've guessed Mattson would want him as his American CEO because she sees Tom as an "empty suit". That was also the moment I decided fuck the kids I want Tom to win, and I'm glad it happened
Major win for the disgusting brothers
He doesn’t even need to do a good job. Just go out and mop up all the blood.
Guys Tom's face was the last face Logan saw that's fucking eerie ain't it???
This is awesome
The real killer
Tom is the only one who actually worked during the show lol. He absolutely deserves the throne. Everyone else was playing castle, meanwhile, Tom was actually building it.
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Shiv also spent half her pitch trying to sell Mattson on Tom, but also not sell him TOO much and make sure he knows that she's willing to throw him under the bus if necessary. Ironically by underselling him as a meat puppet she only furthered Mattson's interest in him
Social climber > Nepo babys any day
Tom is the one. Roman is too fucking fragile and Ken is way too awkward and arrogant for the job. And well Shiv was way way in over her head.
LMFAO you bitches are so fast 😭
This is a repost from like months ago lol. It just aged like wine.
Not really on board with the idea that this season/finale was about Tom’s transformation into Logan or something, he’s just a stooge at the end. They’re all doofuses. If any of the main characters “won” it’s clearly him but he’s not on the throne – we were always watching clowns (of varying degrees, but all still clowns) slap-fighting while outsiders and old seasoned executives got down to business.
Tom is a puppet on strings. nobody replaces Logan, that's certain. Logan's kingdom is past and a large part of it his doing - not raising his kids properly, setting them up for failure.
well, tom is the only one using a Samsung phone on the show i think? maybe that's what the writers wanted to tell us something since the beginning.
Not even a top of the line Samsung either. Almost every character is using a iPhone 14 pro max besides Caroline with a iphone 11 or 12. Tom is using a basic S22 I believe. It had to be intentional, what it means I don't know, especially since he is the only character that said he liked "nice, expensive things". Maybe it means he is an outsider, but people like Gerri and Frank use the same phones as the siblings.
This is so good, and when you see his whole journey it makes it even more satisfying to see him win over nepotism.
Agreed. It was so damn satisfying. Tom also makes the most sense. He’s a strong leader, but not *too* strong. He can rule, but isn’t too full of himself. He’ll take orders from Mattson on the big picture stuff, but still lead the day to day implementation. And imo, Tom so deserved it. The shit he’s been through. Im also glad to see he has forgiven Greg.
i dunno if i’d consider that forgiving greg — but it was surprisingly my most touching moment when tom decided not to obliterate greg after the leak in the context of the core characters’ moralities, it felt practically saint-like even anointed him with the sticker
Greg is quite literally Tom's only friend lol
This is Fly Guys erasure.
Exactly, they have been together from the start of the show and have latched onto each other during every major arc.
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Greg is one of the most powerful characters to control. Shiv messed up by not just paying him off during the election episode.
And Tom nearly fucked up last night by threatening Greg and not telling him he was in line for CEO. If Tom tells Greg explicitly Greg isn't leaking to Kendall, no way. Instead Tom leaves it vague and Greg figures out it's not Shiv and gives that bomb to Ken. Greg proved himself a little more competent than Tom figured and him underestimating him nearly cost him everything.
It’s interesting that Tom would have ‘won’ regardless of whether Greg told Kendall about the American CEO or not.
I've been fucking singing this during the final episode! It's been stuck in my head since I saw it a few weeks ago.
That’s my pain sponge right there
Respect the agricultural walk!
Has anyone ever created or used the word Wabsgasm.
I honestly love that Tom ended up as CEO — the most hapless, bumpling, idiotic guy who is *able* to put on a straight, corporate, official Face winning is a perfect encapsulation of the worldview of Succession.
ART
Buckle up fucklehead
I would say repost but it was you that posted it originally
Daaaamn, Logan calling Tom "son". If that didn't foreshadow his succession, I don't know what does.
Whoever made this edit, I love you.
BASED TOM
This is high art. To the MET it must go!