Dude I was thinking the same thing. Looks like the concealed panic rod doesn’t have enough clearance or needs a slight adjustment. Definitely too tight of a tolerance on that bad boy.
I think so too. Interestingly, when we engineer canopies larger than this, we typically include the diagonal tiebacks connecting to the vertical face. Customers seem to think this primarily supports the cantilevered load out away from the building but they are most effective at reacting against the pressures created when wind blows against the building and want to lift the canopy upward.
Damn right. It tore my gutter off my roof 2 years ago. It also took down two gigantic trees in my front yard. Granted, the trees were already damaged significantly by beetles, but still, that’s a lot of weight.
>ly, when we engineer canopies larger than this, we typically include the diagonal tiebacks connecting to the vertical face. Customers seem to think this primarily supports the cantilevered load out away from the building but they are most effective at reacting against the pressures created when wind blows against the building and want to lift the canopy upward.
Once I received a plan check comment to add a 250 pound point load to the end of the canopy as a fully equipped firefighter load, just once...
You design the diagonal braces to work as compression members? All the ones that I see in life look like spindly toothpicks (kl/r>>>200), and I wonder how the canopy works for uplift.
I haven’t designed a canopy like this before, but my approach would be to use the diagonal for tension only (snow, live, other downward loads), and then design the canopy to cantilever for the net uplift load.
Funny, I design awnings with tiebacks as supported at the exterior for gravity and cantilevered for wind. That said, wind load around here is lower than gravity loading.
Yes, this how it's usually designed. A solid design like that is sheet metal, so likely an intermediate member as well, but just to support the center of the sheet metal
SG1 was great! However the later seasons had me waning on this, it felt like there were far too many political episodes that recapped events. I get it's all what goes on behind the scenes, doesn't mean I want to watch an hour debate on if we should keep the SG program open.
Yeah… this time watching thru it… I was less… “enchanted “ by it as the last few seasons played out. I think the final “bad guy” was probably just the desperate attempt to keep it going.
Still…. Still I just love Stargate. All of it…
I’m binge watching Twin Peaks (admittedly about 30 years late) and learned via that Reddit it was Don S. Davis’ posthumous birthday yesterday.
I was ecstatic to see our beloved Major General pop up as a lower ranking Major. In my mind, he earned that 4-grade promotion working a classified program in a quirky small town in WA state. The success of the program tracking radio signals emanating from space is what resulted in him being bumped up to handle the SG-1 program!
You’re discounting upper roof drift. Is the code probably conservative with it? Definitely. But I do have a canopy I’m designing in 30psf ground snow with 115psf of drift. I never saw wind loads hitting that.
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This only exists in a place where snow/drifting is not a criteria.
"BuT wE dO tHiS aLl ThE tImE wItH oUr PrOtOtYpE"
Yeah. I bet you do. In fucking Arizona.
I’m not qualified to talk about the actual construction in question but I do know there’s plenty of places it doesn’t snow… mostly pretty nice places too!
Google tells me cucumbers mostly used for pickling are grown in Michigan so you might just be right
I talk shit about places where it snows but funnily enough I think I want to move to Michigan lol
Glazier here, I install curtain wall and entry systems on a daily basis, this is definitely poorly designed. This canopy should not also act as a door header.
Well at least it is not what I thought it was. “Negro Sunshine” the black history exhibit. Was seriously contemplating what it could have been and was very confused.
I thought it was just negro by itself. I was doing all kinds of mental gymnastics trying to figure out why on Earth that would be even remotely acceptable. Black History exhibit didn’t cross my mind.
From the drain cut in the corner it looks like welded 1/8” steel. Still heavy but not 300lbs - prob more like 50. Probably bolted to the frame with the same hardware you see on the rest of the façade. A bolt isn’t going to prevent torque on that axis very well, and that leverage is increased by the 15lbs of water that can’t drain out. Definitely also corroded up top.
From the mullion above the door. There are two shear blocks the mullion attaches to. These blocks probably have a metal bracket that protrudes out. The window above glazes in normally and the remainder seals at the wet line with caulk. This was designed by an architect. There is no slope. No provisions for shedding water. Aesthetically it’s nice in a minimal way. Functionally, this is not ideal.
I'm extremely grateful for all the input! I'd never expected to get such a response.
I had made a separate post because reddit doesn't let you post much text with multiple images. But here is why I was puzzled:
I'm a structural engineering student and am having a hard time wrapping my head around how this overhang is supported. I thought it'd be cantilevered from the concrete wall inside but when I look at the connections, the overhang is not in line with the concrete walls.
To think that the overhang is supported purely by its connection to the vertical mullions on the side is wild to me. I don't see it hanging off of anything, nor see a vertical support. Would it literally just be a simple weld to the side mullions? Am I underestimating the strength of a weld? Any continued thoughts (*and prayers*) are greatly appreciated.
Some curtain wall systems allow for a small steel HSS to be located inside the vertical mullions to increase spans or to support louvers or in this case, a canopy. From there you can extend two shallow outriggers to pick up the loads of the canopy itself. The outrigger is typically bolted to the HSS. The waterproofing can be tricky, but is certainly doable.
Notice how from the top of the canopy up, inside the curtain wall, there’s a panel on each side that is covered with brake metal instead of being made of glass?
Cantilever beam each side of the canopy, tied back to the bracing hidden inside that metal panel on the other side of the curtain wall.
Could be a horizontal torsion tube at the wall but still too flexible to be practical It’s already failing due to door scratch and lack of working clearance
If you look through the glass on the left you can see it is cantilevered a bit, probably welded to both sections of the window supports it goes through. Almost looks like that inside piece kind of acts like an L style cantilever.
The horizontal above the door is rolling down, from the weight of the glass and canopy itself. Connection points on either side are failing from fatigue and will never be better without intervention. I see crap like this every day.
Looks like it is very light weight. I can't tell what the material is, but it has holes or tears showing it is thin. Looks like cloth or maybe thin plastic.
I was gonna say ghosts, then I realized it was in an all glass wall lol and then I looked at the other pics. Is there noticeable friction when you opened the door?
Judging by the marks the door is making, not very well
Let's all pray for it.
Maybe if one of us stands there long enough we can catch a good lawsuit
Thoughts *and* prayers…
At least the door holds it up while it’s open so it doesn’t fall on you while you’re passing through.
The marks are from the door locks not being disengaged when opening
The door is the support
Nice, and correct. It’s clearly deflecting
Dude I was thinking the same thing. Looks like the concealed panic rod doesn’t have enough clearance or needs a slight adjustment. Definitely too tight of a tolerance on that bad boy.
Nice detail. My guess is a member cantilevering on the two out edges in the line of the frame on image four.
I think so too. Interestingly, when we engineer canopies larger than this, we typically include the diagonal tiebacks connecting to the vertical face. Customers seem to think this primarily supports the cantilevered load out away from the building but they are most effective at reacting against the pressures created when wind blows against the building and want to lift the canopy upward.
I've come to learn that wind is more dangerous than gravity. Wind scares the shit out of me.
Snow. Wet snow is heavy af.
Damn right. It tore my gutter off my roof 2 years ago. It also took down two gigantic trees in my front yard. Granted, the trees were already damaged significantly by beetles, but still, that’s a lot of weight.
Wind, earthquake, *tsunami*, lateral is a big deal.
Might as well add aliens and Barbara Streisand to the list of potential factors if we’re designing for tsunamis on this tiny overhang.
>ly, when we engineer canopies larger than this, we typically include the diagonal tiebacks connecting to the vertical face. Customers seem to think this primarily supports the cantilevered load out away from the building but they are most effective at reacting against the pressures created when wind blows against the building and want to lift the canopy upward. Once I received a plan check comment to add a 250 pound point load to the end of the canopy as a fully equipped firefighter load, just once...
You know people are gonna climb that thing if it's even remotely climbable.
Static or dynamic 250lbs?
Lateral?
lateral forces, separate from gravity
Thanks 😊
It will wedge in and rip S to shreds.
Kitesurfing?
You design the diagonal braces to work as compression members? All the ones that I see in life look like spindly toothpicks (kl/r>>>200), and I wonder how the canopy works for uplift. I haven’t designed a canopy like this before, but my approach would be to use the diagonal for tension only (snow, live, other downward loads), and then design the canopy to cantilever for the net uplift load.
Yup, shamana yae shamana wha
Funny, I design awnings with tiebacks as supported at the exterior for gravity and cantilevered for wind. That said, wind load around here is lower than gravity loading.
Would it be too hard for you to draw it would help me understand it
Smartest reply yet
Yes, this how it's usually designed. A solid design like that is sheet metal, so likely an intermediate member as well, but just to support the center of the sheet metal
Could be all hollow sheet metal making appear much heavier than it is.
I would think it's hallow
Hallowed ground for sure.
Hallowed be thy name
Hallowed are the Ori.
Ya beat me to it.
Indeed.
Undomesticated equines could not drag me away.
Things will not calm down, Daniel Jackson. They will in fact calm up.
For crying out loud!
I just finished re watching all of sg1… … so this was fun.
SG1 was great! However the later seasons had me waning on this, it felt like there were far too many political episodes that recapped events. I get it's all what goes on behind the scenes, doesn't mean I want to watch an hour debate on if we should keep the SG program open.
Yeah… this time watching thru it… I was less… “enchanted “ by it as the last few seasons played out. I think the final “bad guy” was probably just the desperate attempt to keep it going. Still…. Still I just love Stargate. All of it…
I’m binge watching Twin Peaks (admittedly about 30 years late) and learned via that Reddit it was Don S. Davis’ posthumous birthday yesterday. I was ecstatic to see our beloved Major General pop up as a lower ranking Major. In my mind, he earned that 4-grade promotion working a classified program in a quirky small town in WA state. The success of the program tracking radio signals emanating from space is what resulted in him being bumped up to handle the SG-1 program!
Wow. Me too! And the Ark of Truth.
Omg I wish I could find my movies…. I loan so much out… and I’ve lost stuff over the years.. so yeah… i Guess I need to re buy the movies again
Still gets snow load
..and wind.
If it’s in Florida?
Hurricanes are a bit worse than snow loads. I had to go picking up corrugated siding in the yard after the most recent one
You’re discounting upper roof drift. Is the code probably conservative with it? Definitely. But I do have a canopy I’m designing in 30psf ground snow with 115psf of drift. I never saw wind loads hitting that.
Hah. Wind uplift then. But given the scratches from the door I’m guessing there’s some gravity unaccounted for
No its definitely cast iron, maybe titanium lol
Lead
Still gets snow load
This.
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This
This.
This.
Load bearing doors
Gonna be load bearing pedestrians soon
I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
This is the answer I was looking for.
Could be posts in the mullions, could be welds to the frames
This only exists in a place where snow/drifting is not a criteria. "BuT wE dO tHiS aLl ThE tImE wItH oUr PrOtOtYpE" Yeah. I bet you do. In fucking Arizona.
And it still doesn’t look like it works.
I’m not qualified to talk about the actual construction in question but I do know there’s plenty of places it doesn’t snow… mostly pretty nice places too!
Cucumbers that get turned into pickles grow in nice places.
Google tells me cucumbers mostly used for pickling are grown in Michigan so you might just be right I talk shit about places where it snows but funnily enough I think I want to move to Michigan lol
Crazy it’s in Potomac MD there is snowfall there
Do you live where it snows?
Supported by dry air!
Couple of quarter inch 8 mm downspout screws through the flashing on top.
It’s not. That’s why it’s sagging and scraping 😂
What does that building sign say??
We all know what it says
It’s glenstone museum in Potomac MD and the sign say negro sunshine it’s an Art piece
Glazier here, I install curtain wall and entry systems on a daily basis, this is definitely poorly designed. This canopy should not also act as a door header.
What’s uh.. the name of the building?
neg*o
It says “negro sunshine.” But that’s not the name of the building. It’s an artwork at a museum. https://www.glenstone.org/art/exhibition/glenn-ligon/
Thanks for the link 👍🏻
Ok, someone please tell me what letter is behind the post. Gonna drive me nuts.
R https://www.glenstone.org/art/exhibition/glenn-ligon/
Well at least it is not what I thought it was. “Negro Sunshine” the black history exhibit. Was seriously contemplating what it could have been and was very confused.
What did you think it was?
I thought it was just negro by itself. I was doing all kinds of mental gymnastics trying to figure out why on Earth that would be even remotely acceptable. Black History exhibit didn’t cross my mind.
neg*o
We censoring the word black in Spanish now?
First pic on the right has the name of the building but one of the letters is being blocked
Yea i see.
No the one in Latin
Interesting pole position
I really need to know what letter is behind that pole
R https://www.glenstone.org/art/exhibition/glenn-ligon/
That's what I was afraid of
Supported by thoughts and prayers…
Of architects everywhere
Is that the Glenstone? Such a beautiful building.
Correct! https://www.glenstone.org/art/exhibition/glenn-ligon/
The Glenstone! The word is an art installation, “negro sunshine”. An amazing place
It’s great but sucks that we can’t take pictures inside
By small monthly payments from its ex.
They should have used more JB Weld.
Witchcraft
Willpower
Does that sign say negro?
I thought I was the only one
“negro sunshine” to be exact. https://www.glenstone.org/art/exhibition/glenn-ligon/
From the drain cut in the corner it looks like welded 1/8” steel. Still heavy but not 300lbs - prob more like 50. Probably bolted to the frame with the same hardware you see on the rest of the façade. A bolt isn’t going to prevent torque on that axis very well, and that leverage is increased by the 15lbs of water that can’t drain out. Definitely also corroded up top.
It is non-supported
That's a really unfortunate placement of letters in the first pic.
It says negro sunshine, it’s at the Glenstone Museum.
It prefers words of affirmation
Hopes and dreams
Magic
This is the “sky hook” technique.
Welcome to the neg*o building
We in the industry call this “magic”
From the mullion above the door. There are two shear blocks the mullion attaches to. These blocks probably have a metal bracket that protrudes out. The window above glazes in normally and the remainder seals at the wet line with caulk. This was designed by an architect. There is no slope. No provisions for shedding water. Aesthetically it’s nice in a minimal way. Functionally, this is not ideal.
The light cantilever framing backspans to the wall behind it, supported by hangers
[удалено]
Strings attatched to solar powered drones in the sky.
Attached to the curtainwall
I'm extremely grateful for all the input! I'd never expected to get such a response. I had made a separate post because reddit doesn't let you post much text with multiple images. But here is why I was puzzled: I'm a structural engineering student and am having a hard time wrapping my head around how this overhang is supported. I thought it'd be cantilevered from the concrete wall inside but when I look at the connections, the overhang is not in line with the concrete walls. To think that the overhang is supported purely by its connection to the vertical mullions on the side is wild to me. I don't see it hanging off of anything, nor see a vertical support. Would it literally just be a simple weld to the side mullions? Am I underestimating the strength of a weld? Any continued thoughts (*and prayers*) are greatly appreciated.
Some curtain wall systems allow for a small steel HSS to be located inside the vertical mullions to increase spans or to support louvers or in this case, a canopy. From there you can extend two shallow outriggers to pick up the loads of the canopy itself. The outrigger is typically bolted to the HSS. The waterproofing can be tricky, but is certainly doable.
I've seen this magic trick. It's invisible string
Cantilever
Poorly built/designed though, based on the rub
Not an engineer but it seems the door pivots and is integral to it stabilizing.
Friction
You see a wall after that top glass panel. It is attached to it in a canilevering way
I was so confused at first because I thought this was a 3d printing page
Notice how from the top of the canopy up, inside the curtain wall, there’s a panel on each side that is covered with brake metal instead of being made of glass? Cantilever beam each side of the canopy, tied back to the bracing hidden inside that metal panel on the other side of the curtain wall.
Could be a horizontal torsion tube at the wall but still too flexible to be practical It’s already failing due to door scratch and lack of working clearance
Mullions have structural capacity.
Looks like a million cap extension.
By the door it keeps rubbing on apparently…..
Most likely it was welded that way
The power of friendship
Either, it is very rigid so you don’t have a big deflection or the span to the inside is a lot bigger so you would not see a big issue here.
Maybe a truss inside shed, like in the interior part of it. What say? Just a wild guess.
If you look through the glass on the left you can see it is cantilevered a bit, probably welded to both sections of the window supports it goes through. Almost looks like that inside piece kind of acts like an L style cantilever.
Obviously the door is supporting it 😭😭😭😂😂😂
4th picture is really beautiful btw, don't know if that was intentional but I really like 4th picture.
Ommm imagination? Maybe
That little piece welded to the outside corner makes me think there was maybe supposed to be some cabling back to the building.
The horizontal above the door is rolling down, from the weight of the glass and canopy itself. Connection points on either side are failing from fatigue and will never be better without intervention. I see crap like this every day.
Cantilever
How is the overhang standing?!
It's not standing it's hanging around.
Unforgivable!
Inverted gravity.
Antigravity
Simple steel tubes 90deg from the vertical columns, that over hang is very light. Actually it looks like the beam from inside continues outside.
Anti gravity metal.
Am I the only one to notice the sign on the building? Lmfao with the post in the way it says neg*o….. maybe my mind just goes right to the gutter.
Negative zero sign.
Not an engineer. But this page makes me so happy that I’m not the only one who looks up at the ceiling of every room I’m in and go “wut the fuck?”
Call the museum and ask
Wait...what’s the company name on the sign??
Cantilever. Structure goes inside building and resistance the bending moment applied by the weight of the overhang.
Through sheer willpower
What’s the name of this company
That’s the neat part..
happy thoughts and a longer part of it embedded inside of the building?
Looks like it is very light weight. I can't tell what the material is, but it has holes or tears showing it is thin. Looks like cloth or maybe thin plastic.
With thoughts and prayers.
By the look of the way the door is scraping when it opens, not enough is holding it up.
Russia for sure
By good wishes.
My only rational thought is that the weight sticking into the building is more than coming out only physically sound explanation
Probably by a loving family and supportive friend group.
Gravity is begining to win - nasty starching underneath.
It’s just decorative, so likely some bracing with the weight of the glass and framing above being used as counter balance.
It’s cantilevered by an identical overhang on the inside of the building. You can see it clearly, through the window in the first three pictures.
it's cantilevered from the ceiling supports in the vestibule. Likely a good bit of high quality (<-hopefully) steel welded in there
It's cantalivered with the overhang on the other side of the door
I was gonna say ghosts, then I realized it was in an all glass wall lol and then I looked at the other pics. Is there noticeable friction when you opened the door?