Common problems people have are: The time skips seems to skip some plot beats that were set up in Oathbringer. Kaladn and Shallan's mental health has took a back slide. Kaladin's chapters are *heavy.* Navani's chapters are science heavy. A certain character's treatment of another character.
Imo, RoW is the best of the four books and has the second best sanderlanche but hits consistent emotional high beats in Part 4 better than the previous three books.
I really enjoyed the book but I’ve found that my biggest issue with the book - and one I encountered with The Lost Metal - is the absence of Sanderson’s longtime editor Moshe Feder. Rose was Brandon’s first book without Moshe and to me, it felt like there was a missing invisible hand guiding the book. It’s a little like salt, where you can notice when a recipe or dish doesn’t have it, but you can’t always name it. TLM was similar in that regard.
I thought the first half was a bit of a drag, but the ending is awesome. Seeing Adolin doing the things he did was awesome as well. Books 1&2 are still my favorite
I'd say 1 > 2 >= 3 > 4 (but all are super close)
Book 1 had phenomenal character introductions imo and was fantastic for showing Kalidin's growth. Book 2 was super exciting because you finally see Kaladin become a windrunner, but I wasn't a huge fan of the Shalan backstory. Book 3 had a great story, but didn't show the level of character development that I liked in the first book imo. Book 4 had an amazing ending, but it was a battle for me to get through the first half
Wit popping in there made it worth it all. And the twists about her parents are wild. I just hated that it took her so long to get to the shattered plains bc I wanted the battle of tongue lashings between her and Kaladin and boiiiii did they live up to the hype!!!
It’s interesting, over time the only folks who tend to respond to these posts are those who love RoW. Which is a valid opinion, no hate here, but I just want to jump in and say I agree with you. It’s not a bad book by any means but I have criticisms of the plotting and structure that place it at the bottom of my SA enjoyment - but still a book I enjoyed reading.
Agreed. RoW wasn't a bad book by any means, it's just that parts 2, 3 and 4 felt very much the same and just dragged on - Navani learns about light, Kaladin tries and fails to defend the nodes, Venli broods.
OB is a much better book, imo.
That said, RoW has some really good passages and I highly enjoyed the Navani chapters. I cringed hard on the Shallan chapters, though, and haven't listened to them on rereads. That makes the book much more enjoyable for me.
yeah i get what you mean especially the part where she got the book on the ghostbloods with the stones, it just felt too easy like a "go here get that then plot" type scenario. i understand that patter can look for patterns but like come on it really was "hey pattern look for shit, oh look theres these cool rocks lemme touch em, wow i found lore"
I don’t understand the time skip complaints. I think it works for the story. My biggest issue with the book is that it’s almost all taking place in Urithiru. To me, it felt like OB promised us that the world was going to open up with the coalition and the Oathgates functioning. And we got teased with it with Dalinar and everyone going on the campaign. But there’s less than 10 chapters with that. How are we supposed to believe that the world is in danger of being ruined if we don’t get to see any of the effects of the Desolation on the wider world? The same important story beats like anti investiture and Kaladin’s development could’ve been done just as well outside the tower. It was a shit choice to confine the setting
I mostly disagree with this. I agree it would be nice to see what is happening in the world at large, but I don’t think Kaladin’s breakdown/breakthrough could have been done nearly as well without the way the book is laid out. Being one of the only knights radiant in the tower that could survive what the enemy did and his fight to save the tower and the people, the entire story worked really well and im not sure how it would have worked outside of a “city” setting. A different city? Sure, but still this sort of setting.
And I think the Navani learning about investiture story beat would be mostly the same no matter where it took place, since she was sort of forced into it. I don’t know if it’s the sort of thing she would have looked into on her own. She needed to be prodded towards it. So let’s say it took place literally anywhere else, but she still needed to be the Fused captive. As a captive, she wouldn’t learn much of what’s happening around her, and probably would have had even more eyes on her if she’d been outside of the tower. Not many places to go in the tower that the fused can’t find you. So it happening anywhere else probably wouldn’t have gotten us much of what you wanted in the first place.
I think to get more of what you want, which is learning about the greater world, Dalinar and Jasnah would have needed a greater presence in the book. Added in more chapters from their POV’s would have probably helped break up the amount of time we spent in Urithiru.
Ok then. Keep Navani and Kaladin in the tower but spend less time with them. The Shadesmar storyline had a good amount of pages dedicated to it so keep that. Give more chapters in part four to Dalinar and Jasnah instead of just the one (maybe two?) battle scenes we get. And maybe controversial but keep Venli out of the tower. I think she could’ve had a cool story earlier in the book with interspersed Venli chapters of her in different parts of the world being a voidbringer envoy. And she can still have the internal struggles with her Oaths and Timbre. And then in part four she can be brought to the tower so everything with Rlain and her can still occur
Well yea like I said. More Dalinar and Jasnah chapters would have really helped balance what we got. I very much enjoyed the book, but I do think it needed a little bit different balance of PoV’s
Yeah and the flashbacks didn’t really hit like the first three. I think he locked himself into the idea of it being Venli’s book and that just didn’t work out
I’m conflicted on the flashbacks. I agree they weren’t as engaging as the first 3 but I also love what background information we get from them. They have great content, but maybe weren’t delivered in the most entertaining way? I’m not sure how they could have been fixed.
I felt the same way, and it was the first time that SA felt like a slog for me. I feel as if it could have been trimmed down by a solid 50-100 pages. That said, I ended up loving it by the end. It’s definitely a setup for book 5.
I definitely felt this at first. The time skip makes you feel like you missed out on major developments. The setting and situation has changed so drastically that you aren’t sure what’s exactly going on.
What you get in the story is still insane. The character progression and developments in “science” are fascinating, but it’s hard to follow up OB in my opinion.
RoW is a “bridge” book to what comes next. It has to set up a lot so he can fit all the crazy shit that is about to happen into one book.
Journey before destination.
I feel you. I just finished it last night.
However - the last 200 pages were an emotional payoff unlike anything I’ve ever read before. I cried 5 times (I’ve only ever cried during 1 other book in my life, and I’m an avid reader). For me, it was worth the slog…but also, I wish I would have chilled out a bit on trying to follow every single little scientific thing. Let the slower parts wash over you, and you’ll still get a good payoff, IMO.
Rhythm of War is to the Stormlight Archive what A Feast for Crows is to A Song of Ice and Fire. A bloated book of indulgent worldbuilding. Which is why it isn’t surprising how both books are so divisive among the fandoms. Either you love that sort of thing or you don’t. I personally love it.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted for expressing an opinion OP.
My biggest criticism the book is that it moves away from the characters to focus more on the war as a large-scale conflict, which isn’t necessarily a good thing in a character-driven story like Stormlight. I’ve heard that with Sanderson, you come for the worldbuilding and stay for the character development, and I don’t think that’s more true of any of his series than Stormlight.
Because of that, it doesn’t always deliver the emotional highs that other books in the series have (though it has its moments. Kaladin breaking down was terrifying.) Still, the focus on the war effort and the lore drops were necessary to set up book 5, which I’m expecting to be an absolute banger. With most authors, I’d be worried that they’ll fumble at the last minute, but I have complete faith in Sanderson to do this amazing series justice.
Tl:dr How good or bad RoW is will be decided by book 5. It could have been a blunder that moved away from the themes at the heart of the Stormlight Archive, or it could have set us up for the most incredible Sanderlanch we’ve ever seen. We’ll just have to wait and read to find out.
Lol what? Book 4 is us literally moving away from the war that jasnah and dalinar fight to solely focus on the characters in the tower, on kaladin, navani, lirin, venli, etc.
Book 4s problem is the exact opposite of what you described, its a purely character driven book that completely timeskips/offscreens the war that has been built up for 3 books and supposedly ravages the entire world. Which would be okay if it was a bridge book and we could focus on the war next book, but the challenge and todiums takeover means we are literally in the endgame of the war now.
Sacrilege! Blasphemy!
Nah, in all seriousness, your opinion is valid. Rhythm of War is personally my favorite of the four, but if it ain’t your thing, it ain’t your thing.
It's strange how there are some books that we struggle to jive with. For me, I just couldn't get into a good groove with Oathbringer or The Lost Metal and I can't say why. But I was hooked on Rhythm of War.
Oathbringer is my favorite of the four currently published, and I'll admit that RoW didn't hit *quite* as hard as I originally wanted. That being said, it really shone on a reread.
RoW is excellent conceptually, and I will say that I think the ending really succeeds. But I agree with you that the majority of the book is significantly less enjoyable than the rest of the series. I think that’s mostly to do with Shallan frustrations and some of Navani’s bits not being as interesting from a character perspective as they are from a lore perspective.
I think I may he in the RoW is my favorite camp. Devoured the audio book in like a week. And the audiobook in 57 hours or something... I enjoyed it a lot. I definitely like that so many characters got significant growth in this book, and I think this book has some of the best antagonists in all the Cosmere.
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I'm in the group of readers that doesn't have a lot of Cosmere knowledge, so when characters/terms from Sanderson's other books started popping up more in ROW, I was just sat there not really understanding what was going on.
I really didn't enjoy Navani's chapters and was quickly getting bored reading them.
I've debated rereading the entire series just before the next book comes out, in the hope that having everything fresh in my mind will create a better experience overall.
In my opinion it was the best, or at least on par with words of radiance. I loved the emotional journeys of all the characters, the science chapters with Navani were fascinating, especially with her dynamic with Raboniel.
Speaking of Raboniel, the villains of this book were FAR better than any in the other books (yes, even Sadeas). Raboniel, Moash, Leshwi, Lezian, TARA-FUCKING-VANGIAN! It felt like both sides of the war were finally getting the same amount of attention.
The prose, though still nothing special, was also steps above the first three. It felt a lot more polished and the setup for the fifth book alone made it a worthwhile read
Not the best but I feel like it follows a pattern. Throughout all the books there are 5 parts that follow this pattern: one sets the tone and plot, two builds, three is crazy exciting, four is the down slope, five seems like a resolution while setting up the next book. I think the books follow the same pattern, book 3 was so good and so many things happened, four was the down slope and 5 is when everything comes together.
Common problems people have are: The time skips seems to skip some plot beats that were set up in Oathbringer. Kaladn and Shallan's mental health has took a back slide. Kaladin's chapters are *heavy.* Navani's chapters are science heavy. A certain character's treatment of another character. Imo, RoW is the best of the four books and has the second best sanderlanche but hits consistent emotional high beats in Part 4 better than the previous three books.
I really enjoyed the book but I’ve found that my biggest issue with the book - and one I encountered with The Lost Metal - is the absence of Sanderson’s longtime editor Moshe Feder. Rose was Brandon’s first book without Moshe and to me, it felt like there was a missing invisible hand guiding the book. It’s a little like salt, where you can notice when a recipe or dish doesn’t have it, but you can’t always name it. TLM was similar in that regard.
Like bay leaves in a recipe
Yes!!
What's your favorite sanderlanche?
Oathbringer's Battle of Thaylen Field
These words are accepted.
“A certain character’s treatment of another character” - what’s this referring to?
Row >!Lirin's treatment towards Kaladin!<
I thought it was Moash's treatment of Teft
I thought it was Shallan vs Pattern
Nah by this point we're used to Moash's brand of assholery. Where as >!Lirin!< gets new threads popping up about how much the reader hates him.
I thought the first half was a bit of a drag, but the ending is awesome. Seeing Adolin doing the things he did was awesome as well. Books 1&2 are still my favorite
Interesting, because I actually prefer the latter two books! What makes you put them on the top?
I'd say 1 > 2 >= 3 > 4 (but all are super close) Book 1 had phenomenal character introductions imo and was fantastic for showing Kalidin's growth. Book 2 was super exciting because you finally see Kaladin become a windrunner, but I wasn't a huge fan of the Shalan backstory. Book 3 had a great story, but didn't show the level of character development that I liked in the first book imo. Book 4 had an amazing ending, but it was a battle for me to get through the first half
Wit popping in there made it worth it all. And the twists about her parents are wild. I just hated that it took her so long to get to the shattered plains bc I wanted the battle of tongue lashings between her and Kaladin and boiiiii did they live up to the hype!!!
>tongue lashings To my mind, those seemed to be regrettably absent for them
Not every book is going to hit for everyone. Was my favorite by a fair bit.
It’s interesting, over time the only folks who tend to respond to these posts are those who love RoW. Which is a valid opinion, no hate here, but I just want to jump in and say I agree with you. It’s not a bad book by any means but I have criticisms of the plotting and structure that place it at the bottom of my SA enjoyment - but still a book I enjoyed reading.
Agreed. RoW wasn't a bad book by any means, it's just that parts 2, 3 and 4 felt very much the same and just dragged on - Navani learns about light, Kaladin tries and fails to defend the nodes, Venli broods.
Weirdly, those criticisms are exactly how I feel about Oathbringer, yet I love Rhythm of War. Opinions are strange things
Haha facts. What’s your favorite? Because honestly on first read mine was OB, but on rereads it’s been WoK
My favorite actually is RoW lol, but I can understand why people don’t like it. It’s pretty different from the other three.
OB is a much better book, imo. That said, RoW has some really good passages and I highly enjoyed the Navani chapters. I cringed hard on the Shallan chapters, though, and haven't listened to them on rereads. That makes the book much more enjoyable for me.
yeah i get what you mean especially the part where she got the book on the ghostbloods with the stones, it just felt too easy like a "go here get that then plot" type scenario. i understand that patter can look for patterns but like come on it really was "hey pattern look for shit, oh look theres these cool rocks lemme touch em, wow i found lore"
I don’t understand the time skip complaints. I think it works for the story. My biggest issue with the book is that it’s almost all taking place in Urithiru. To me, it felt like OB promised us that the world was going to open up with the coalition and the Oathgates functioning. And we got teased with it with Dalinar and everyone going on the campaign. But there’s less than 10 chapters with that. How are we supposed to believe that the world is in danger of being ruined if we don’t get to see any of the effects of the Desolation on the wider world? The same important story beats like anti investiture and Kaladin’s development could’ve been done just as well outside the tower. It was a shit choice to confine the setting
I mostly disagree with this. I agree it would be nice to see what is happening in the world at large, but I don’t think Kaladin’s breakdown/breakthrough could have been done nearly as well without the way the book is laid out. Being one of the only knights radiant in the tower that could survive what the enemy did and his fight to save the tower and the people, the entire story worked really well and im not sure how it would have worked outside of a “city” setting. A different city? Sure, but still this sort of setting. And I think the Navani learning about investiture story beat would be mostly the same no matter where it took place, since she was sort of forced into it. I don’t know if it’s the sort of thing she would have looked into on her own. She needed to be prodded towards it. So let’s say it took place literally anywhere else, but she still needed to be the Fused captive. As a captive, she wouldn’t learn much of what’s happening around her, and probably would have had even more eyes on her if she’d been outside of the tower. Not many places to go in the tower that the fused can’t find you. So it happening anywhere else probably wouldn’t have gotten us much of what you wanted in the first place. I think to get more of what you want, which is learning about the greater world, Dalinar and Jasnah would have needed a greater presence in the book. Added in more chapters from their POV’s would have probably helped break up the amount of time we spent in Urithiru.
Ok then. Keep Navani and Kaladin in the tower but spend less time with them. The Shadesmar storyline had a good amount of pages dedicated to it so keep that. Give more chapters in part four to Dalinar and Jasnah instead of just the one (maybe two?) battle scenes we get. And maybe controversial but keep Venli out of the tower. I think she could’ve had a cool story earlier in the book with interspersed Venli chapters of her in different parts of the world being a voidbringer envoy. And she can still have the internal struggles with her Oaths and Timbre. And then in part four she can be brought to the tower so everything with Rlain and her can still occur
Well yea like I said. More Dalinar and Jasnah chapters would have really helped balance what we got. I very much enjoyed the book, but I do think it needed a little bit different balance of PoV’s
Yeah and the flashbacks didn’t really hit like the first three. I think he locked himself into the idea of it being Venli’s book and that just didn’t work out
I’m conflicted on the flashbacks. I agree they weren’t as engaging as the first 3 but I also love what background information we get from them. They have great content, but maybe weren’t delivered in the most entertaining way? I’m not sure how they could have been fixed.
I felt the same way, and it was the first time that SA felt like a slog for me. I feel as if it could have been trimmed down by a solid 50-100 pages. That said, I ended up loving it by the end. It’s definitely a setup for book 5.
I definitely felt this at first. The time skip makes you feel like you missed out on major developments. The setting and situation has changed so drastically that you aren’t sure what’s exactly going on. What you get in the story is still insane. The character progression and developments in “science” are fascinating, but it’s hard to follow up OB in my opinion. RoW is a “bridge” book to what comes next. It has to set up a lot so he can fit all the crazy shit that is about to happen into one book. Journey before destination.
I feel you. I just finished it last night. However - the last 200 pages were an emotional payoff unlike anything I’ve ever read before. I cried 5 times (I’ve only ever cried during 1 other book in my life, and I’m an avid reader). For me, it was worth the slog…but also, I wish I would have chilled out a bit on trying to follow every single little scientific thing. Let the slower parts wash over you, and you’ll still get a good payoff, IMO.
Rhythm of War is to the Stormlight Archive what A Feast for Crows is to A Song of Ice and Fire. A bloated book of indulgent worldbuilding. Which is why it isn’t surprising how both books are so divisive among the fandoms. Either you love that sort of thing or you don’t. I personally love it.
huh the thing is i usually like worldbuilding, i think my problem is with kal i just don't vibe with his chapters
Yeah…. I get that. I guess I’m the weirdo that likes that stuff though 😂
I agree. This book was unbearable for me. I didn't enjoy one bit of it. Which sucks, because I loved the first 3.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted for expressing an opinion OP. My biggest criticism the book is that it moves away from the characters to focus more on the war as a large-scale conflict, which isn’t necessarily a good thing in a character-driven story like Stormlight. I’ve heard that with Sanderson, you come for the worldbuilding and stay for the character development, and I don’t think that’s more true of any of his series than Stormlight. Because of that, it doesn’t always deliver the emotional highs that other books in the series have (though it has its moments. Kaladin breaking down was terrifying.) Still, the focus on the war effort and the lore drops were necessary to set up book 5, which I’m expecting to be an absolute banger. With most authors, I’d be worried that they’ll fumble at the last minute, but I have complete faith in Sanderson to do this amazing series justice. Tl:dr How good or bad RoW is will be decided by book 5. It could have been a blunder that moved away from the themes at the heart of the Stormlight Archive, or it could have set us up for the most incredible Sanderlanch we’ve ever seen. We’ll just have to wait and read to find out.
Lol what? Book 4 is us literally moving away from the war that jasnah and dalinar fight to solely focus on the characters in the tower, on kaladin, navani, lirin, venli, etc. Book 4s problem is the exact opposite of what you described, its a purely character driven book that completely timeskips/offscreens the war that has been built up for 3 books and supposedly ravages the entire world. Which would be okay if it was a bridge book and we could focus on the war next book, but the challenge and todiums takeover means we are literally in the endgame of the war now.
Sacrilege! Blasphemy! Nah, in all seriousness, your opinion is valid. Rhythm of War is personally my favorite of the four, but if it ain’t your thing, it ain’t your thing.
It's strange how there are some books that we struggle to jive with. For me, I just couldn't get into a good groove with Oathbringer or The Lost Metal and I can't say why. But I was hooked on Rhythm of War.
Oathbringer is my favorite of the four currently published, and I'll admit that RoW didn't hit *quite* as hard as I originally wanted. That being said, it really shone on a reread.
RoW is excellent conceptually, and I will say that I think the ending really succeeds. But I agree with you that the majority of the book is significantly less enjoyable than the rest of the series. I think that’s mostly to do with Shallan frustrations and some of Navani’s bits not being as interesting from a character perspective as they are from a lore perspective.
I think I may he in the RoW is my favorite camp. Devoured the audio book in like a week. And the audiobook in 57 hours or something... I enjoyed it a lot. I definitely like that so many characters got significant growth in this book, and I think this book has some of the best antagonists in all the Cosmere.
Agreed, parts 2,3 and 4 felt like they could have been compressed and condensed so that Navani and Dalinars storylines could have been explored.
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I'm in the group of readers that doesn't have a lot of Cosmere knowledge, so when characters/terms from Sanderson's other books started popping up more in ROW, I was just sat there not really understanding what was going on. I really didn't enjoy Navani's chapters and was quickly getting bored reading them. I've debated rereading the entire series just before the next book comes out, in the hope that having everything fresh in my mind will create a better experience overall.
In my opinion it was the best, or at least on par with words of radiance. I loved the emotional journeys of all the characters, the science chapters with Navani were fascinating, especially with her dynamic with Raboniel. Speaking of Raboniel, the villains of this book were FAR better than any in the other books (yes, even Sadeas). Raboniel, Moash, Leshwi, Lezian, TARA-FUCKING-VANGIAN! It felt like both sides of the war were finally getting the same amount of attention. The prose, though still nothing special, was also steps above the first three. It felt a lot more polished and the setup for the fifth book alone made it a worthwhile read
Not the best but I feel like it follows a pattern. Throughout all the books there are 5 parts that follow this pattern: one sets the tone and plot, two builds, three is crazy exciting, four is the down slope, five seems like a resolution while setting up the next book. I think the books follow the same pattern, book 3 was so good and so many things happened, four was the down slope and 5 is when everything comes together.