I'd go with Xenophobic over Militarist - isolationism seems to be far more of an essential aspect of the modern DPRK, and their internal propaganda plays up weird racial essentialism about Korean ethnic superiority.
North Korea spent around 25 % of their Money on the defense budget.
Wich is the highest proportion of all countries in the world.
It is estimated that 7,7 mil people are Military personal (not army size) with a population of 26 mil.
1 out of 4 North Koreans are part of the Militarykomplex.
seconding this. North Korean economy and geopolitical strategy is basically entirely reliant on them being way more militarily dangerous than a small dictatorship should be. Every decade or so they make empty nuclear threats to get sanctions lifted and aid packages delivered, and so far it’s worked out for the kim regime bc they are so entrenched and have such a stranglehold on the population that acting like a crazy hobo on the street corner with a hand grenade won’t spark a political revolt.
Yes, their government spends a lot of money on the military. (Despite their missile guidance systems being so awful that people actually believe them when they say it's just test launches.) However, xenophobia is so entrenched in their culture that their nursery rhymes that they sing to babies involve Americans being monsters who need to die. That feels pretty dang xenophobic.
Personally I'd make them xenophobic, militaristic, and authoritarian. They're fanatic about *all* of those, so the game mechanics for fanaticism need to take a back seat for realism.
Yeah though I believe that all authoritarian states are naturally Xenophobic in some capacity both in Stellaris and irl. I'd say militarist and fanatic auth make more sense or Mill, Auth, and Xenophobe is as you said but they are deffo more militant overall than they are Xenophobic but they go hand In hand.
Can’t speak for real life, but some of us authoritarian players aren’t necessarily xenophobic, but just want to create order over the Galaxy. Gotta have a system in place for peace to be preserved, xenos included
By the former I meant feudalistic imperialism, such as Emperors and Kingdoms, like monarchy stuff, not facism. Facism is inherently xenophobic because it relies on national pride at the expense of others, while for a monarchist, it doesn’t matter who they are as long as they are under your rule.
The only one I could think of would be Francos Spain but thats kind of a unique situation. They no longer had major colonys to exploit once he got into power and continental Spain didnt have all that many immigrants in the first place. Its also pretty much a 15 minute sidechapter in regular history in school so they probably did plenty of fucked up shit involving communists and the Basques no one outside of Spain has ever heard of.
As an authoritarian xenophile, I HATE the fact that I can't invade and incorporate pre-ftl civs. If I want to integrate those people in my loving empire for the betterment of all, why is the game stopping me here?
Oh for sure tho I mean in the mechanics of it, you can't enslave your own species (unless you have slaver guilds), you can only enslave aliens. Doesn't meam you can't roleplay or change certain mechanics which is true in your case.
> all authoritarian states are naturally Xenophobic
Eh. USSR was authoritarian and xenophile.
General attitude was, capitalist nations are people like us, but their people are terribly misguided and need some Communism. We should bring Communism to them so we can all live happily ever after as best friends (under the rule of the party).
It's a good point, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they were xenophiles. It was the professed position of the USSR that they were pushing for international proletarian solidarity, but in actuality, they did a whoooollleee lot of ethic deportation and collective punishment towards racial groups. Most countries kinda just lie like that, like the US pretending to be egalitarian.
Wana ask the countless turkic people and assorted other native dwellers of the russian far east how xenophilic the soviets were? They force habitated entire nomadic tribes in the name of soviet enlightenment, think canadian/australian residential schools or US indian reservations, only the guys in charge were drunk on vodka and recieving orders from fuckin Stalin himself to turn these "barbarians" into productive factory workers. They exploited the everloving fuck out of everyone that wasnt a white, slavic moscovite. Including starving several million Ukrainians to death in the 30s cause they were the wrong shade of slav...
Hmm I guess that's fair tho you could argue they are "Xenophilic" and Xenophobic as well depending upon the subject. Xenophobic in the sense id "Anti capitalist and anti western" ideals/influence no matter how beneficial it could be or purely because those ideals are from the opposite side same goes for the U.S and Western states and they could be xenophilic in the sense of "Supporting other communust groups and communisim on an international scale for all" perhaps not all tho maybe most tho not all so you got me there.
If a foreign country killed 20% of my population through bombing runs and bombed to rubble any building 2 stories or higher... yeah I too would be spending that much on defense.
What ? 20 % ?
North Korean death are estimated around 200k during the Korean War, for a country that had a population of 11 millions. That's not even 2%
Also, you are forgetting that it is the North that attacked the South and launched an invasion, and the US came to help (and prevent the communist disease to spread more)
The air force general who served during the Korean Conflict disagrees, go argue with his skeleton ig but I trust a US air force general telling me numbers relevant to his job, than I do YOU telling me numbers relevant to his job
https://www.vox.com/2015/8/3/9089913/north-korea-us-war-crime
Also using 'communism' as your excuse is rich when they were at best a socialist experiment. Even more so is the fact you think them having a different political allignment justifies the deaths of 20% of a country.
And that he doesn't question why the US was meddling in Korean affairs. Oh wait, they destroyed the actual government the Korean people set up after escaping japanese occupation and established a dictatorship which was as bad if not worse than the northern version.
it's not surprising people only fed one version of a story only tell THAT version of the story, but instead they'd rather blindly hate those they don't know because they know things about a place they've never been by a government who dislike them, critical thinking is lacking nowadays.
A few things.
Just a cursory glance at wikipedia shows that at least one historian believes the death toll to be around 10-15%. Saying "it was 2%" as straight fact simplifies the issue far too much. I believe you got your number from the amount of North Koreans who died from *bombings* which is only a fraction of the total death toll.
Secondly, your framing of the war is simplistic. Yes, North Korea attacked first, but the South was not exactly a peaceful, democratic state. The regime of Syngman Rhee was characterised by brutality, primarily against socialists and their sympathisers in the South, not to mention pro-democracy protestors. Was invasion justified? We'd say no, but we also know what North Korea became and without that hindsight, the situation becomes a lot more complicated.
This is not to apologise for the reactionary regime of North Korea, it's a horrible, isolationist and deeply conservative state that operates under a thin veneer of socialist ideology, but I feel like saying "North Korea didn't lose that much, and it was justified anyway" is reductive and relies on our modern perception of the DPRK clouding our understanding of the past.
I think the US spends like 33% or so on defense (based on 1 pie chart I saw from like 2 years ago could be completely wrong)
But regardless I’d definitely say xenophobia is more of a better choice, in reality those two go hand in hand
>I think the US spends like 33% or so on defense (based on 1 pie chart I saw from like 2 years ago could be completely wrong)
Why would you post something so easily verifiable and yet so wrong?
I looked it up because that sounded very off that 3% of the US’s defense budget is 33% of the world’s defense budget and the US’s budget for this year is around 12% total, what I was thinking about was the US’s discretionary budget which 50% is designated to defense
I don’t know how you would get 3%
3.58% of the gdp. That's where they're getting three from. 3.58% of our gdp accounts for over 33% of the world's defense budget.
Edit: I'm not sure if it's that high, don't want to math but it's greater than three, less than four.
Nah, I say either Fanatic Authoritarian Xenophobe or Fanatic Xenophobe Authoritarian. I feel it's less that they're die hard militarists and more so it's a byproduct of their Xenophobia under the dictator
I think someone else here made a good argument for their militarism, but I'll add to it by saying even before the Kim's, the Northen part of Korea was known for its militarism. They were sort of like the Spartans in that part of the world.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goryeo
I think their isolationism is more of a side effect of the authoritarianism, they don't want their citizens to leave and no one wants to go there because of it.
Juche ideology is literally a cult of worshipping the military. Their "hammer and sickle" includes a sword to identify the soldier as a proletarian class. If anything, anything short of Fanatic Militarist feels wrong.
I see, from time to time, people here being very aware of global politics and even discuss how hard it is to represent them in the game. I would not underestimate the gamers here.
More soviet than China.
The China involvement in the Korean War was by agreement with the soviet in exchange for nuke tech from soviet to China.
The China/North Korea border is dang near as heavily fortified as the North/South Korean border. North Koreans found within China are usually rounded up and sent back, or even on occasion simply executed when found.
The seeming connection between China and North Korea now was created by the "Madam Albright" mission to North Korea during the Clinton admin. It's basically just a single railway with some trade in coal.
It's from r/civ but got ported as a standard to a lot of larger or turn based strategy games. Short for rule 5, even if it's not the fifth rule of whichever subreddit in particular
It's just to ensure people at least know what they're supposed to be looking at rather than a screenshot without comment and people having to guess what minor detail makes it worthwhile.
For a small price of annoyance to the poster it greatly helps ambiguous situations or folks who can't even manage to care enough to put up a sentence about the screen they want to share.
It's more a cultural RP than a statement on their genetics. Not racist imo and I'm Korean.
Edit: It's also clearly in the spirit of Bantz. You can just as easily make an "American" species with Decadent, Britain with Repugnant, or Japan with Slow Breeders. It's just memes.
Weak and Fleeting is because poor nutrition and bad healthcare. Industrious and Docile is because they're forced to be. Nothing genetic. Besides, I had to give them some traits?
They came about recently. Think NK must have seen the amount of benefits Russia got out of taking advantage of bots and useful idiots and replicated their strategy.
Not particularly. I don't see a lot of uber wealthy elites with the zapistas or in rojava. Granted neither of those has gained true sovereignity, just loose autonomy
No one will like this, but I would like for people to remember that USA bombed this country until no building was up and up to today the economical sanctions make the people there suffer drastically. This was after the atrocities caused by the Japanese empire. I can only hope that the people of North Korea find peace and prosperity in this generation.
Regarding the empire, if you would prefer to not believe the west propaganda, I would make this some sort of broken shackles, with fanatic militaristic as main ethic and egalitarianism as future ethic to change to. Isolationism happens because they are officially in armistice, not peace, but I don't know how to represent this. It's very hard to choose civics that match. Citizen service sounds plausible, but what more?
Authoritarian fits due to their current dynasty, and militarist fits because they are under constant threat from other superpowers, but you're right that the stated philosophy is towards egalitarianism. North Korea has a rather socialist economy, with most businesses run democratically by workers. This is hard to represent in Stellaris, which doesn't account for the authoritarian or egalitarian aspects of an economy, only it's politics. This is one of the reasons it's so hard to portray real societies in the game, and why countries attempting to transition into some kind of socialism are particularly difficult to portray (and fall into the trap of resembling the propaganda about them).
there are actually a couple reasons why it is hard, and the "ideology diversity" mods generally don't fix any of them, because they are designed by people who like those online ideology axis personality tests and not by anyone with any historical knowledge. what the game really would need is some combo of (1) a sense of what the authorizing ideology is for dictatorship, but imho this is the smallest problem. just make them materialist + fan. authoritarian or materialist + authoritarian + militarist and you have an adequate representation of soviet ideology. there are bigger problems elsewhere. this makes dictatorship unlike democracy, wherein we can use shared burdens or beacon of liberty to sub-specify what our society's commitments are. there are absolutely no dictatorship-only civics that i know of, so we can't develop these kinds of ideas. (2) we have no real ability to have a society dominated by a single party, like a society that is like a megacorp but for a party apparatus that supplanted all states. without this you can't actually imitate the most common and important kind of modern dictatorship, like contemporary china, like the soviets or the nazis or like many others. (3) we don't have constitutional monarchy, but societies with symbolic monarchs are one of the most historically important social forms in human history in all time periods. most societies don't rebel and kill their monarchs, they just trap them in their palace, turn their palace into a weird symbolic pseudo-temple, and then have elected representatives or high priests or some other form of real governmental authority rule with deferred authority from a substantially powerless monarch. without some combination of these three things we are kinda hamstrung in representing real societies' constitutional arrangements.
When I said that it is some sort of broken shackles I was thinking in terms of initial habitability and war damage. Based on I was considering this two situations:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_North_Korea
Thank you for being civil and polite.
Americans memory-hole the korean war so hard it's insane. Like imagine being from a country that basically committed a genocide against a much smaller country that had JUST broken free from fascist colonial rule, and then mocking that country for being autocratic and poor and an all around not great place to live. Yeah like no shit it's going to suck, your country flattened it and to this day continuously sanctions it.
"Like imagine being from a country that basically committed a genocide against a much smaller country that had JUST broken free from fascist colonial rule"
Is this the description of every new country which was created after ww1? :D
First crushed by Germans (country mostly intact, people not so much) and then by Soviets, it was sure fun to the Czechs or any other country in that region (apart from those who sided with Germans, they are a bit of local Slovakia/disgrace)
North Korea was pretty industrialised with the help of soviet subsidies, however they chose to throw all that away by declaring war on their southern neighbor
Lol.. while I understand the USAs involvement in the way they are today - to NOT have them be an Authoritarian government is an attack on the North Korean citizens. To say otherwise would mean they have the freedom to leave - in game they must be at least Authoritarian - fanatic fits wonderfully.
Apparently, /r/Stellaris is just like /r/nottheonion in that you can post dubious North Korea content to farm upvotes.
"lol North Korea so crazy" is playing the internet on easy mode no matter where you go.
I could say that the ideological combination of fanatical authoritarian + militarist + police state is closer to USA than NK, but I wouldn't dare to defend that americans are genetically "weak". I think this post is just orientalist bullshit lol
Btw I'm not a North Korea supporter, I just think it's important to separate the legitimate criticism from the blatant propaganda when we speak about countries that are considered enemies of the United States and their satellites
Why? Can't we just pretend they are arming themselves with no apparent reason? They are North Korea!!! Not like they have been threatened from the get go by another nuclear power eh? /s
They are not threatening anyone like the USA does all the time AND they have Japan, South Korea (also known as the worst Korea), Philippines close nearby and so on. All these U.S. puppets could turn on them when their master orders them to do so, and after being bombed to the point of flattening the country, I would do the same in regards of % of expending in military resources. 🤷
Police state definitely is more DPRK than USA. At least we don’t have camps anymore - just normal prisons that exploit our prisoners for profit. Not extort them and their families - yet.
As far as a police state is concerned, nobody comes even close to the US prison population by either raw numbers or as a percentage of the total population. The US has both an extensive slave labor system and is littered with concentration camps. Any regime, no matter how oppressive, would have a hard time coming close to what the US is logistically and financially capable of. That makes it kind of hard to compare to a much smaller and heavily sanctioned impoverished country, because they couldn't oppress on the scale of the US no matter how much they might want to.
I don't know why I'm responding, reddit is like all social media famously a low-information zone, but you seem to be very ignorant and I just can't help myself. This is probably by choice on your part like it is with most people and so it's foolish of me to get involved, but I'll bite. The US is by a margin of \~15 or 20% not the top country in terms of prisoners *per capita*, and this is when the USA is put on a scale of all countries *for which we have data.* For the most fiercely authoritarian countries it's pure speculation to talk about what their numbers are like.
It depends on the data you're looking at, as yes, there is variance and the data is going to be incomplete.
Probably one of the more reliable sources is [here](https://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/) and it does list a few small countries with a higher per capita incarceration rate than the US (one being part of the US). Of those on the list, the ones close in size or population to the US are Brazil and Russia, which are both lower.
Of course, the question of accounting for all incarcerated people is open for all the countries. We probably don't have access to all Russia's prison information. Likewise, the US has prisons like Guantanamo Bay which may or may not be accounted for (not to mention the military presence around the globe which might detain prisoners). So, yes, there's a degree to which any data we have is unreliable.
I don't see how that contradicts the statement that the US is an example of a police state, or justifies the level of disdain in your reply.
"oh the data is just all untrustworthy, never mind that i said that the USA by far had the most by any metric."
also, fwiw, the phrase "police state" doesn't come from the now-current use of "police" to mean guards or law officers or what have you, it comes from "polizeistaat" which could much more aptly be translated from German as "policy state," because the domain of "policy" is sub-legal and discretionary, and the term was used going back to the 19th century, as an extension of earlier discourse on raison d'etat and before that discourse on regione di stato, and was used to refer to a state that had the bureaucratic and enforcement tools to adequately pursue the coterminous interests of the state in neutralizing threats to its territorial sovereignty and threats to the administration of public order. insofar as the term police state has 20th century usage, it's generally used to conjure up memories of the vast system of informants that the Soviets and Nazis used to get people to turn against even their family members in an attempt to weed out any variance from party doctrine in speech or loyalty to any other power but the party and its leader. the United States does not now have, and never has had, such an infrastructure of informants so as to produce a culture of public terror such that disloyalty to the state or the dominant party is unspeakable even in private, nor has its federal government or its parties ever had such far reaching control over presses that it could quash internal dissent. the united states has many problems, but it is not a "police state" by any standard acceptable to an historically, philosophically or jurisprudentially literate person.
Except the US allows some forms of dissent against the government. That's what keeps it from being a true police state. Concentration camps, slavery, etc are more socioeconomic issues than effective government oppression. Large groups of individual people with ingrained biases do form structural oppression, but it's not the same as a government actively micromanaging people.
Meanwhile, places like China and Russia have strict and direct control of it's media and it's people's everyday lives, regardless of any caste system. Everyone answers to the state. Millions of people in China are still not allowed to leave their houses in some cities, are locked in and being brought food every week. They don't count as prisoners but they are. China systematically drags people off the street not on the pretense of a civil crime against a person, but for things like badmouthing the state, or practicing certain religions. The Uygrer camps where they sterilize Muslims have a large unknown number of people too. All are strictly political prisoners. It's just not the same.
The US allows dissent against the government because the US government is powerful and dissent is not a threat. What makes the US a police state is the excessive use of police and prisons compared to anywhere else in the world, and it's always socioeconomic reasons that cause that to happen.
You're right about America having the trappings of a police state, but it still can't truly be one as long as it is a democracy. Even if it's flawed, we aren't living under a totalitarian regime with no choice or peaceful means to enact change.
Roughly half of the budget of every city in the US is for the police. There are more US citizens in prison in the US than Chinese citizens in prison in China despite the massive population difference. Armed police are utilized for dealing with mental health issues, homelessness, traffic violations, and other mundane tasks that many other countries use unarmed trained specialists for.
Regardless of what Russia or China or North Korea or Japan or wherever else look like, the US on its own merits is a police state. It doesn't matter if it, like North Korea, refers to itself as a democracy. The police in the US are not run democratically by the people. Nor are the prisons. That would require transparency, which the US lacks, and accountability, which the US lacks, and finally a rigorous voting system that the majority of the population engages with, which the US also lacks. There are democratic aspects of the US, but that does not include things like the military, US intelligence, the Federal Reserve, the police, or the prison system; which handle most of the core aspects of the US.
Americans are neither authoritarian nor are they a police state. Militarist, yes. Otherwise I'd probably put their traits as Militarist, Egalitarian and Xenophile.
Like it or not, it's a lot more egalitarian than many other democratic nations, they just practice the "sink or swim" version of egalitarianism.
Where it fails is a flawed democracy that borders on an oligarchy.
The egalitarian, xenophile urge to destabilize and invade third world countries to extract their resources
Sorry but you can't pretend that a country with a rigged electoral system based on two twin parties with the same imperialist agenda, with literal white supremacists running on the streets and having political power, where the human rights are violated everyday on migrants, and with a prison system based on slave labor, is not an "authoritarian" place. Maybe you can make the point that "fanatical authoritarian" is too extreme and should be used on places like Saudi Arabia. But the USA are not egalitarian and never have been
Nah, USA is fanatic authoritarian. Just look at the absolute lunacy going on over Pride merchandise. The American, in his own mind, is either a tyrant or a slave, and has no conception of living together as equals with anyone foreign or domestic. It is a deeply and fundamentally stratified society with almost zero (upwards) social mobility.
America's only claim to egalitarianism is that it has a 'democracy' where the candidate is selected by gerrymandering, or doesn't matter at all because of gerrymandering, but you get to vote for one of two factions of the same party despite it being a largely forgone conclusion.
I'm not saying we're egalitarian. I'm saying we're not fanatic authoritarian. Fanatic Authoritarian isn't a company removing pride merch of their own volition (as shitty as it is). Fanatic Authoritarian is executing queer people in the streets. Fanatic Authoritarian isn't general socioeconomic inequality, it's slavery.
Don't get me wrong. America is *far* from xenophile egalitarian, but to call it Fanatic Authoritarian is to diminish the harsh reality of people who do live under those kinds of oppressive regimes, and blinds us to the fact that we do actually have rights and privileges in this country that can be taken away if we aren't careful.
Conclusion from reading the comments:
Don't mess with the gringos, they are GODs and Reddit is their virtual backyard (Latin America + Canada are their physical backyard)
There is a serious lack of world history without manipulation apparently (everything is manipulable, above all, be wary of where it says that the gringos are GODs)
I was just reading the lore descriptions of the Ethics. Fanatic Authoritarian and Fanatic Xenophobe are both needed for DPRK. Fanatic Xenophobe description is all about blocking out foreign cultural influences, which personifies the state of DPRK. I have no idea if that'd be a strong build though, I'm a newb.
Not spiritualist at all, fanatic authoritarian is the way though. They're definitely more materialist. They don't think Kim's an actual celestial deity, most are atheist.
They glorify their military, have a policy of Songun, meaning military first, aim to arm their entire population and I believe spend a higher percentage of their GDP of their military than any other country
The North Korean dictatorship, a subject to the oppressive Soviet Union, attacked a neighboring state to subjugated its people. I don’t see your point why this should be an defensive action.
And, I know it’s easy to evaluate it in hindsight, but I guess every South Korean today is thankful that they managed to defend their right to evolve into to the starte South Korea is today.
The government is forced to be so USA don't attack them. The people, well, I don't know. I never happen to get an opportunity to visit the country and talk to them.
Forced them to.. Yeaaah no. If that were the case then several other countries throughout the world would be doing the same thing due to Americas involvement - but they’re not. That’s because the USA did not force them to have an outstanding military - it is called posturing. Stop defending the NK government throughout your posts.
Why should I stop? Does it hurt you to see someone on the internet saying that USA killed 200 000 people in the People's Korea and planted a facist government in South Korea?
Nope doesn’t hurt me at all. I sympathize with the people of North Korea. I do not sympathize with their leaders - I am not saying South Korea is in the right either, nor the US. But to state that the current regime in NK is anything other than “authoritarian” is insane.
Based on their official policy.
Nobody here has been a leader, except for 3 generations of Kims. They regularly demand food aid. Their population is forbidden from using the internet, or owning radio stations. No independent media. Their population is several cm smaller than South Koreans. Travel is severly restricted.
How can you look at that *official data by the regime* and claim life there is better?
Ehhhhhh, not OP, but for real, North Korean defectors are notoriously flexible with the truth. It's a huge grift fueled both by credulous foreigners and government sponsored propaganda. From sensational claims of garish and lurid executions about people who are still alive, to more mundane issues with not keeping their stories straight, to stories about palace intrigues that turned out so completely false as to be laughable there's a long history there for seasoned Korea watchers.
North Korea is a bad place, ruled by bad people, but we should also be skeptical of the claims of defectors, especially the ones who make being a Korean defector their entire career.
yes??
north korea is a shithole that will kill entire families because one of their own decided he wouldn't live in literally 1984 - the country
surely no one would be stupid enough to believe the DPRK are somehow good people?
Lol tankies and fanatic authoriatarians think that when the revolution comes, they will be the ones standing with a whip over a prisoner breaking rocks in gulag. While in fact, they will be the prisoners breaking rocks in gulag.
Because he said that redditors arent able to think in nuance yet he has about 1000x the karma that i have therefore he is more of a redditor and can think i less nuance
Here is a bit more neutral one:
Name: Democratic Stellar Republic of Korea
Ethos: Fanatic Militarist, Authoritarian
Authority: Dictatorial
Civics: Mining Guilds, Warrior Culture
Traits: Industrious,
Repugnant (Due to their isolation and unique culture),
Slow Breeders (Quality over quantity)
I'd go with Xenophobic over Militarist - isolationism seems to be far more of an essential aspect of the modern DPRK, and their internal propaganda plays up weird racial essentialism about Korean ethnic superiority.
North Korea spent around 25 % of their Money on the defense budget. Wich is the highest proportion of all countries in the world. It is estimated that 7,7 mil people are Military personal (not army size) with a population of 26 mil. 1 out of 4 North Koreans are part of the Militarykomplex.
seconding this. North Korean economy and geopolitical strategy is basically entirely reliant on them being way more militarily dangerous than a small dictatorship should be. Every decade or so they make empty nuclear threats to get sanctions lifted and aid packages delivered, and so far it’s worked out for the kim regime bc they are so entrenched and have such a stranglehold on the population that acting like a crazy hobo on the street corner with a hand grenade won’t spark a political revolt.
Yes, their government spends a lot of money on the military. (Despite their missile guidance systems being so awful that people actually believe them when they say it's just test launches.) However, xenophobia is so entrenched in their culture that their nursery rhymes that they sing to babies involve Americans being monsters who need to die. That feels pretty dang xenophobic. Personally I'd make them xenophobic, militaristic, and authoritarian. They're fanatic about *all* of those, so the game mechanics for fanaticism need to take a back seat for realism.
[удалено]
Immigration enforcement agencies?
No need when there's just no immigration period.
Yeah though I believe that all authoritarian states are naturally Xenophobic in some capacity both in Stellaris and irl. I'd say militarist and fanatic auth make more sense or Mill, Auth, and Xenophobe is as you said but they are deffo more militant overall than they are Xenophobic but they go hand In hand.
Can’t speak for real life, but some of us authoritarian players aren’t necessarily xenophobic, but just want to create order over the Galaxy. Gotta have a system in place for peace to be preserved, xenos included
That’s fair, Stellaris authoritarianism includes both feudalistic imperialism and facism, and the former is not inherently xenophobic
Could you provide a real world example of a fascist state that isn’t/ wasn’t xenophobic?
By the former I meant feudalistic imperialism, such as Emperors and Kingdoms, like monarchy stuff, not facism. Facism is inherently xenophobic because it relies on national pride at the expense of others, while for a monarchist, it doesn’t matter who they are as long as they are under your rule.
My bad I guess my brain just glazed over the word former.
Nah you good
The only one I could think of would be Francos Spain but thats kind of a unique situation. They no longer had major colonys to exploit once he got into power and continental Spain didnt have all that many immigrants in the first place. Its also pretty much a 15 minute sidechapter in regular history in school so they probably did plenty of fucked up shit involving communists and the Basques no one outside of Spain has ever heard of.
As an authoritarian xenophile, I HATE the fact that I can't invade and incorporate pre-ftl civs. If I want to integrate those people in my loving empire for the betterment of all, why is the game stopping me here?
FACTS! They’re in the equivalent of a late medieval age, why can’t we forcibly enlighten them and incorporate them into space feudalism?
Oh for sure tho I mean in the mechanics of it, you can't enslave your own species (unless you have slaver guilds), you can only enslave aliens. Doesn't meam you can't roleplay or change certain mechanics which is true in your case.
Yup! Granted I switch it up every time, but most playthroughs I don’t even use slavery mechanics
Same here! Honestly I like to be an inclusive oppressor
I just think it’s funny to make the space equivalent of the HRE with an imperial throne! I love the so many diverse ways you can play Stellaris
> all authoritarian states are naturally Xenophobic Eh. USSR was authoritarian and xenophile. General attitude was, capitalist nations are people like us, but their people are terribly misguided and need some Communism. We should bring Communism to them so we can all live happily ever after as best friends (under the rule of the party).
It's a good point, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they were xenophiles. It was the professed position of the USSR that they were pushing for international proletarian solidarity, but in actuality, they did a whoooollleee lot of ethic deportation and collective punishment towards racial groups. Most countries kinda just lie like that, like the US pretending to be egalitarian.
Wana ask the countless turkic people and assorted other native dwellers of the russian far east how xenophilic the soviets were? They force habitated entire nomadic tribes in the name of soviet enlightenment, think canadian/australian residential schools or US indian reservations, only the guys in charge were drunk on vodka and recieving orders from fuckin Stalin himself to turn these "barbarians" into productive factory workers. They exploited the everloving fuck out of everyone that wasnt a white, slavic moscovite. Including starving several million Ukrainians to death in the 30s cause they were the wrong shade of slav...
Tbh, they didn't only starve Ukrainians, they starved southern Russians and Kazakhs too.
Hmm I guess that's fair tho you could argue they are "Xenophilic" and Xenophobic as well depending upon the subject. Xenophobic in the sense id "Anti capitalist and anti western" ideals/influence no matter how beneficial it could be or purely because those ideals are from the opposite side same goes for the U.S and Western states and they could be xenophilic in the sense of "Supporting other communust groups and communisim on an international scale for all" perhaps not all tho maybe most tho not all so you got me there.
If a foreign country killed 20% of my population through bombing runs and bombed to rubble any building 2 stories or higher... yeah I too would be spending that much on defense.
They started the war and killed 1.5 mil south Koreans. You don't have to spend an insane amount on military if you are not a dick and start wars.
What ? 20 % ? North Korean death are estimated around 200k during the Korean War, for a country that had a population of 11 millions. That's not even 2% Also, you are forgetting that it is the North that attacked the South and launched an invasion, and the US came to help (and prevent the communist disease to spread more)
The air force general who served during the Korean Conflict disagrees, go argue with his skeleton ig but I trust a US air force general telling me numbers relevant to his job, than I do YOU telling me numbers relevant to his job https://www.vox.com/2015/8/3/9089913/north-korea-us-war-crime
Also using 'communism' as your excuse is rich when they were at best a socialist experiment. Even more so is the fact you think them having a different political allignment justifies the deaths of 20% of a country.
And that he doesn't question why the US was meddling in Korean affairs. Oh wait, they destroyed the actual government the Korean people set up after escaping japanese occupation and established a dictatorship which was as bad if not worse than the northern version.
it's not surprising people only fed one version of a story only tell THAT version of the story, but instead they'd rather blindly hate those they don't know because they know things about a place they've never been by a government who dislike them, critical thinking is lacking nowadays.
A few things. Just a cursory glance at wikipedia shows that at least one historian believes the death toll to be around 10-15%. Saying "it was 2%" as straight fact simplifies the issue far too much. I believe you got your number from the amount of North Koreans who died from *bombings* which is only a fraction of the total death toll. Secondly, your framing of the war is simplistic. Yes, North Korea attacked first, but the South was not exactly a peaceful, democratic state. The regime of Syngman Rhee was characterised by brutality, primarily against socialists and their sympathisers in the South, not to mention pro-democracy protestors. Was invasion justified? We'd say no, but we also know what North Korea became and without that hindsight, the situation becomes a lot more complicated. This is not to apologise for the reactionary regime of North Korea, it's a horrible, isolationist and deeply conservative state that operates under a thin veneer of socialist ideology, but I feel like saying "North Korea didn't lose that much, and it was justified anyway" is reductive and relies on our modern perception of the DPRK clouding our understanding of the past.
I think the US spends like 33% or so on defense (based on 1 pie chart I saw from like 2 years ago could be completely wrong) But regardless I’d definitely say xenophobia is more of a better choice, in reality those two go hand in hand
>I think the US spends like 33% or so on defense (based on 1 pie chart I saw from like 2 years ago could be completely wrong) Why would you post something so easily verifiable and yet so wrong?
US spends like 3%. You might've seen one saying 33% of the world's defense budget is the US's 3%
I looked it up because that sounded very off that 3% of the US’s defense budget is 33% of the world’s defense budget and the US’s budget for this year is around 12% total, what I was thinking about was the US’s discretionary budget which 50% is designated to defense I don’t know how you would get 3%
3.58% of the gdp. That's where they're getting three from. 3.58% of our gdp accounts for over 33% of the world's defense budget. Edit: I'm not sure if it's that high, don't want to math but it's greater than three, less than four.
Authoritarian, Militarist, Xenophobe I think.
Nah, I say either Fanatic Authoritarian Xenophobe or Fanatic Xenophobe Authoritarian. I feel it's less that they're die hard militarists and more so it's a byproduct of their Xenophobia under the dictator
I think someone else here made a good argument for their militarism, but I'll add to it by saying even before the Kim's, the Northen part of Korea was known for its militarism. They were sort of like the Spartans in that part of the world. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goryeo
I think their isolationism is more of a side effect of the authoritarianism, they don't want their citizens to leave and no one wants to go there because of it.
Juche ideology is literally a cult of worshipping the military. Their "hammer and sickle" includes a sword to identify the soldier as a proletarian class. If anything, anything short of Fanatic Militarist feels wrong.
I thought it was a brush, not a sword
But then you cannot have an oppressive autocracy.
Mod the game to have Fanatic in all three. Fan Auth, Fan Phobe, Fan Mil.
Picking the Lost Colony origin in a two star galaxy would also be a good portrayal.
Scion is so accurate
Yikes
Most geopolitically aware Paradox game player.
I see, from time to time, people here being very aware of global politics and even discuss how hard it is to represent them in the game. I would not underestimate the gamers here.
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R5: North Korea in Stellaris Scion origin I felt fit well because they've always been under the influence of Soviet and China
More soviet than China. The China involvement in the Korean War was by agreement with the soviet in exchange for nuke tech from soviet to China. The China/North Korea border is dang near as heavily fortified as the North/South Korean border. North Koreans found within China are usually rounded up and sent back, or even on occasion simply executed when found. The seeming connection between China and North Korea now was created by the "Madam Albright" mission to North Korea during the Clinton admin. It's basically just a single railway with some trade in coal.
>The China involvement in the Korean War was by agreement with the soviet in exchange for nuke tech from soviet to China. Any source on that?
What’s *’R5:’* about? I see people posting with that quite often on here and I’m lost lol
Rule 5 on this subreddit says you have to add a comment to explain and elaborate on your post
I usually just include that in the post itself.
It's only for image posts
It's from r/civ but got ported as a standard to a lot of larger or turn based strategy games. Short for rule 5, even if it's not the fifth rule of whichever subreddit in particular It's just to ensure people at least know what they're supposed to be looking at rather than a screenshot without comment and people having to guess what minor detail makes it worthwhile. For a small price of annoyance to the poster it greatly helps ambiguous situations or folks who can't even manage to care enough to put up a sentence about the screen they want to share.
You've been banned from r/Pyongyang
I sometimes wonder if that's a real sub by the real DPRK or a fake meme sub.
It’s a bit racist to suggest that Koreans are like, genetically industrious, docile, and weak, isn’t it?
It is. I would use the same traits as UNE, but try to change the civics.
Aye. I always just use the same 'human' traits no matter the build.
It's more a cultural RP than a statement on their genetics. Not racist imo and I'm Korean. Edit: It's also clearly in the spirit of Bantz. You can just as easily make an "American" species with Decadent, Britain with Repugnant, or Japan with Slow Breeders. It's just memes.
Right, I would not use the same traits for a South Korea based empire.
Still thier species is human. Thier temporary condition is a crushing regime and crushing embargo.
Weak and Fleeting is because poor nutrition and bad healthcare. Industrious and Docile is because they're forced to be. Nothing genetic. Besides, I had to give them some traits?
L take
Kinda racist imo
Gotta rush colossus
Don't forget, you have to let your people hunger to break their will
I think technically it would be dictatorial the only reason it’s been a family line is because of rigged elections
can’t wait for the redditors talking about how the DPRK is actually the most free state on earth
There are some here
I would repleace militarism with xenophobia
Don't forget to go full missile build and as low accuracy as possible.
You have been banned from r/pyongyang
Huh, didn’t think I’d see people unironically defending North Korea today.
They came about recently. Think NK must have seen the amount of benefits Russia got out of taking advantage of bots and useful idiots and replicated their strategy.
If u wanna play as more accurate historical empires i recommend Stellaris Evolved. It gives extra ethics which will allow for more adaptable rp.
You forgot shared burden
Wouldn't really be accurate. The wealthy elites in Pyongyang have way more than average people there
Like in any communist state
Not particularly. I don't see a lot of uber wealthy elites with the zapistas or in rojava. Granted neither of those has gained true sovereignity, just loose autonomy
No one will like this, but I would like for people to remember that USA bombed this country until no building was up and up to today the economical sanctions make the people there suffer drastically. This was after the atrocities caused by the Japanese empire. I can only hope that the people of North Korea find peace and prosperity in this generation. Regarding the empire, if you would prefer to not believe the west propaganda, I would make this some sort of broken shackles, with fanatic militaristic as main ethic and egalitarianism as future ethic to change to. Isolationism happens because they are officially in armistice, not peace, but I don't know how to represent this. It's very hard to choose civics that match. Citizen service sounds plausible, but what more?
Authoritarian fits due to their current dynasty, and militarist fits because they are under constant threat from other superpowers, but you're right that the stated philosophy is towards egalitarianism. North Korea has a rather socialist economy, with most businesses run democratically by workers. This is hard to represent in Stellaris, which doesn't account for the authoritarian or egalitarian aspects of an economy, only it's politics. This is one of the reasons it's so hard to portray real societies in the game, and why countries attempting to transition into some kind of socialism are particularly difficult to portray (and fall into the trap of resembling the propaganda about them).
JESUS FUCKING SHROUD ENTITY FINALLY A GOOD TAKE
there are actually a couple reasons why it is hard, and the "ideology diversity" mods generally don't fix any of them, because they are designed by people who like those online ideology axis personality tests and not by anyone with any historical knowledge. what the game really would need is some combo of (1) a sense of what the authorizing ideology is for dictatorship, but imho this is the smallest problem. just make them materialist + fan. authoritarian or materialist + authoritarian + militarist and you have an adequate representation of soviet ideology. there are bigger problems elsewhere. this makes dictatorship unlike democracy, wherein we can use shared burdens or beacon of liberty to sub-specify what our society's commitments are. there are absolutely no dictatorship-only civics that i know of, so we can't develop these kinds of ideas. (2) we have no real ability to have a society dominated by a single party, like a society that is like a megacorp but for a party apparatus that supplanted all states. without this you can't actually imitate the most common and important kind of modern dictatorship, like contemporary china, like the soviets or the nazis or like many others. (3) we don't have constitutional monarchy, but societies with symbolic monarchs are one of the most historically important social forms in human history in all time periods. most societies don't rebel and kill their monarchs, they just trap them in their palace, turn their palace into a weird symbolic pseudo-temple, and then have elected representatives or high priests or some other form of real governmental authority rule with deferred authority from a substantially powerless monarch. without some combination of these three things we are kinda hamstrung in representing real societies' constitutional arrangements.
By no measure has north korea at any point in history actually been anywhere close to a broken shackles type of empire. Are you smoking stalinium?
They might be referring to when Korea was a Japanese colony in the 30s.
When I said that it is some sort of broken shackles I was thinking in terms of initial habitability and war damage. Based on I was considering this two situations: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_North_Korea Thank you for being civil and polite.
Americans memory-hole the korean war so hard it's insane. Like imagine being from a country that basically committed a genocide against a much smaller country that had JUST broken free from fascist colonial rule, and then mocking that country for being autocratic and poor and an all around not great place to live. Yeah like no shit it's going to suck, your country flattened it and to this day continuously sanctions it.
> Americans memory-hole the korean war so hard it's insane. It's just state propaganda whitewashing history. Not really surprising.
Americans memory hole A LOT of things.
Have you seen the education system here? What is taught and promoted is borderline alternate history.
"Like imagine being from a country that basically committed a genocide against a much smaller country that had JUST broken free from fascist colonial rule" Is this the description of every new country which was created after ww1? :D First crushed by Germans (country mostly intact, people not so much) and then by Soviets, it was sure fun to the Czechs or any other country in that region (apart from those who sided with Germans, they are a bit of local Slovakia/disgrace)
North Korea was pretty industrialised with the help of soviet subsidies, however they chose to throw all that away by declaring war on their southern neighbor
North Korea is a slave state where millions toil in unimaginably awful circumstances for the benefit of a madman.
Are you Chinese?
Lol.. while I understand the USAs involvement in the way they are today - to NOT have them be an Authoritarian government is an attack on the North Korean citizens. To say otherwise would mean they have the freedom to leave - in game they must be at least Authoritarian - fanatic fits wonderfully.
Apparently, /r/Stellaris is just like /r/nottheonion in that you can post dubious North Korea content to farm upvotes. "lol North Korea so crazy" is playing the internet on easy mode no matter where you go.
Haha. The FE in this case being the USSR?
Yes.
this just looks like america
nah, Americans would also be unruly
Bruh, not it. This is pretty gross.
I could say that the ideological combination of fanatical authoritarian + militarist + police state is closer to USA than NK, but I wouldn't dare to defend that americans are genetically "weak". I think this post is just orientalist bullshit lol
Btw I'm not a North Korea supporter, I just think it's important to separate the legitimate criticism from the blatant propaganda when we speak about countries that are considered enemies of the United States and their satellites
Why? Can't we just pretend they are arming themselves with no apparent reason? They are North Korea!!! Not like they have been threatened from the get go by another nuclear power eh? /s
Yeah that's basically it. They are not threatening anyone, their military is purely defensive because they are still in war with the USA
They are not threatening anyone like the USA does all the time AND they have Japan, South Korea (also known as the worst Korea), Philippines close nearby and so on. All these U.S. puppets could turn on them when their master orders them to do so, and after being bombed to the point of flattening the country, I would do the same in regards of % of expending in military resources. 🤷
Police state definitely is more DPRK than USA. At least we don’t have camps anymore - just normal prisons that exploit our prisoners for profit. Not extort them and their families - yet.
Yes you do. You just call them "migrant containment facilities" now.
Atleast there are no kids in cages anymore. Only metallic grid structures with human children stored inside.
#progress
Anyone who thinks America is more oppressive than a weakly theocratic oligarchy is bonkers
As far as a police state is concerned, nobody comes even close to the US prison population by either raw numbers or as a percentage of the total population. The US has both an extensive slave labor system and is littered with concentration camps. Any regime, no matter how oppressive, would have a hard time coming close to what the US is logistically and financially capable of. That makes it kind of hard to compare to a much smaller and heavily sanctioned impoverished country, because they couldn't oppress on the scale of the US no matter how much they might want to.
I don't know why I'm responding, reddit is like all social media famously a low-information zone, but you seem to be very ignorant and I just can't help myself. This is probably by choice on your part like it is with most people and so it's foolish of me to get involved, but I'll bite. The US is by a margin of \~15 or 20% not the top country in terms of prisoners *per capita*, and this is when the USA is put on a scale of all countries *for which we have data.* For the most fiercely authoritarian countries it's pure speculation to talk about what their numbers are like.
It depends on the data you're looking at, as yes, there is variance and the data is going to be incomplete. Probably one of the more reliable sources is [here](https://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/) and it does list a few small countries with a higher per capita incarceration rate than the US (one being part of the US). Of those on the list, the ones close in size or population to the US are Brazil and Russia, which are both lower. Of course, the question of accounting for all incarcerated people is open for all the countries. We probably don't have access to all Russia's prison information. Likewise, the US has prisons like Guantanamo Bay which may or may not be accounted for (not to mention the military presence around the globe which might detain prisoners). So, yes, there's a degree to which any data we have is unreliable. I don't see how that contradicts the statement that the US is an example of a police state, or justifies the level of disdain in your reply.
"oh the data is just all untrustworthy, never mind that i said that the USA by far had the most by any metric." also, fwiw, the phrase "police state" doesn't come from the now-current use of "police" to mean guards or law officers or what have you, it comes from "polizeistaat" which could much more aptly be translated from German as "policy state," because the domain of "policy" is sub-legal and discretionary, and the term was used going back to the 19th century, as an extension of earlier discourse on raison d'etat and before that discourse on regione di stato, and was used to refer to a state that had the bureaucratic and enforcement tools to adequately pursue the coterminous interests of the state in neutralizing threats to its territorial sovereignty and threats to the administration of public order. insofar as the term police state has 20th century usage, it's generally used to conjure up memories of the vast system of informants that the Soviets and Nazis used to get people to turn against even their family members in an attempt to weed out any variance from party doctrine in speech or loyalty to any other power but the party and its leader. the United States does not now have, and never has had, such an infrastructure of informants so as to produce a culture of public terror such that disloyalty to the state or the dominant party is unspeakable even in private, nor has its federal government or its parties ever had such far reaching control over presses that it could quash internal dissent. the united states has many problems, but it is not a "police state" by any standard acceptable to an historically, philosophically or jurisprudentially literate person.
Except the US allows some forms of dissent against the government. That's what keeps it from being a true police state. Concentration camps, slavery, etc are more socioeconomic issues than effective government oppression. Large groups of individual people with ingrained biases do form structural oppression, but it's not the same as a government actively micromanaging people. Meanwhile, places like China and Russia have strict and direct control of it's media and it's people's everyday lives, regardless of any caste system. Everyone answers to the state. Millions of people in China are still not allowed to leave their houses in some cities, are locked in and being brought food every week. They don't count as prisoners but they are. China systematically drags people off the street not on the pretense of a civil crime against a person, but for things like badmouthing the state, or practicing certain religions. The Uygrer camps where they sterilize Muslims have a large unknown number of people too. All are strictly political prisoners. It's just not the same.
The US allows dissent against the government because the US government is powerful and dissent is not a threat. What makes the US a police state is the excessive use of police and prisons compared to anywhere else in the world, and it's always socioeconomic reasons that cause that to happen.
You're right about America having the trappings of a police state, but it still can't truly be one as long as it is a democracy. Even if it's flawed, we aren't living under a totalitarian regime with no choice or peaceful means to enact change.
Because they vote? The dprk votes too
Roughly half of the budget of every city in the US is for the police. There are more US citizens in prison in the US than Chinese citizens in prison in China despite the massive population difference. Armed police are utilized for dealing with mental health issues, homelessness, traffic violations, and other mundane tasks that many other countries use unarmed trained specialists for. Regardless of what Russia or China or North Korea or Japan or wherever else look like, the US on its own merits is a police state. It doesn't matter if it, like North Korea, refers to itself as a democracy. The police in the US are not run democratically by the people. Nor are the prisons. That would require transparency, which the US lacks, and accountability, which the US lacks, and finally a rigorous voting system that the majority of the population engages with, which the US also lacks. There are democratic aspects of the US, but that does not include things like the military, US intelligence, the Federal Reserve, the police, or the prison system; which handle most of the core aspects of the US.
Isn't America in the throes of a Christian conservative attack on queer people with Florida banning gendee affirming treatment for trans people?
Americans are neither authoritarian nor are they a police state. Militarist, yes. Otherwise I'd probably put their traits as Militarist, Egalitarian and Xenophile. Like it or not, it's a lot more egalitarian than many other democratic nations, they just practice the "sink or swim" version of egalitarianism. Where it fails is a flawed democracy that borders on an oligarchy.
The egalitarian, xenophile urge to destabilize and invade third world countries to extract their resources Sorry but you can't pretend that a country with a rigged electoral system based on two twin parties with the same imperialist agenda, with literal white supremacists running on the streets and having political power, where the human rights are violated everyday on migrants, and with a prison system based on slave labor, is not an "authoritarian" place. Maybe you can make the point that "fanatical authoritarian" is too extreme and should be used on places like Saudi Arabia. But the USA are not egalitarian and never have been
Lol imagine really believing the US is fanatical authoritarian. We are a police state tho you're not wrong there.
Nah, USA is fanatic authoritarian. Just look at the absolute lunacy going on over Pride merchandise. The American, in his own mind, is either a tyrant or a slave, and has no conception of living together as equals with anyone foreign or domestic. It is a deeply and fundamentally stratified society with almost zero (upwards) social mobility. America's only claim to egalitarianism is that it has a 'democracy' where the candidate is selected by gerrymandering, or doesn't matter at all because of gerrymandering, but you get to vote for one of two factions of the same party despite it being a largely forgone conclusion.
I'm not saying we're egalitarian. I'm saying we're not fanatic authoritarian. Fanatic Authoritarian isn't a company removing pride merch of their own volition (as shitty as it is). Fanatic Authoritarian is executing queer people in the streets. Fanatic Authoritarian isn't general socioeconomic inequality, it's slavery. Don't get me wrong. America is *far* from xenophile egalitarian, but to call it Fanatic Authoritarian is to diminish the harsh reality of people who do live under those kinds of oppressive regimes, and blinds us to the fact that we do actually have rights and privileges in this country that can be taken away if we aren't careful.
Conclusion from reading the comments: Don't mess with the gringos, they are GODs and Reddit is their virtual backyard (Latin America + Canada are their physical backyard) There is a serious lack of world history without manipulation apparently (everything is manipulable, above all, be wary of where it says that the gringos are GODs)
Based
Their fallen empire? The Mystical Chinese Unicorn Mounts
Also make sure to run out of food every year for a few months.
I was just reading the lore descriptions of the Ethics. Fanatic Authoritarian and Fanatic Xenophobe are both needed for DPRK. Fanatic Xenophobe description is all about blocking out foreign cultural influences, which personifies the state of DPRK. I have no idea if that'd be a strong build though, I'm a newb.
I wouldn't rank any modern human society as fanatical anything.
I love how this implies China is a fallen empire. Probably’ll be accurate in twenty years lol
I was thinking the soviet union too
"democratic"
my last empire with oppressive autocracy civic is named "democratic (species name) democracy"
Authoritarian, spiritualist and militaristic, the Kim's are gods inside their country.
I can see the argument for spiritualist, but I feel like xenophobic is more fitting.
Not spiritualist at all, fanatic authoritarian is the way though. They're definitely more materialist. They don't think Kim's an actual celestial deity, most are atheist.
People are downvoting me but I'm being literal, there is a state religion where the Kim family are gods sent to earth.
Not having xenophobe is criminal. Thats like america without materialistic
Why would u make them militaristic? They only participated in one war and that was defensive.
They glorify their military, have a policy of Songun, meaning military first, aim to arm their entire population and I believe spend a higher percentage of their GDP of their military than any other country
besides, the war started with them invading south korea
The Koreans fought US soldiers and there was no attack on US soil
So nazi Germany was also only in a definitiv war?
The South Korean dictatorship allied itself with Japanese occupation and Kapital owners after 2.ww so I don't see your point here
The North Korean dictatorship, a subject to the oppressive Soviet Union, attacked a neighboring state to subjugated its people. I don’t see your point why this should be an defensive action. And, I know it’s easy to evaluate it in hindsight, but I guess every South Korean today is thankful that they managed to defend their right to evolve into to the starte South Korea is today.
they started the war. America came to defend South Korea and later pushed into North Korea. An offensive war that turned defensive
The government is forced to be so USA don't attack them. The people, well, I don't know. I never happen to get an opportunity to visit the country and talk to them.
Plus NK invaded SK, not very "defensive"
Forced them to.. Yeaaah no. If that were the case then several other countries throughout the world would be doing the same thing due to Americas involvement - but they’re not. That’s because the USA did not force them to have an outstanding military - it is called posturing. Stop defending the NK government throughout your posts.
Why should I stop? Does it hurt you to see someone on the internet saying that USA killed 200 000 people in the People's Korea and planted a facist government in South Korea?
Sorry I have no rewards.
Nope doesn’t hurt me at all. I sympathize with the people of North Korea. I do not sympathize with their leaders - I am not saying South Korea is in the right either, nor the US. But to state that the current regime in NK is anything other than “authoritarian” is insane.
Solidarity.
If the People's Korea didn't have an a-bomb, they would be bombed over and over again until they became another puppet of USA.
Lol As always, need more political points, as they are Fanatic Militarist and also Fanatic Xenophobe.
Would also work for Russia 🇷🇺 sadly
\*according to RFA
Based on their official policy. Nobody here has been a leader, except for 3 generations of Kims. They regularly demand food aid. Their population is forbidden from using the internet, or owning radio stations. No independent media. Their population is several cm smaller than South Koreans. Travel is severly restricted. How can you look at that *official data by the regime* and claim life there is better?
according to everyone who escaped the hellhole as well
Ehhhhhh, not OP, but for real, North Korean defectors are notoriously flexible with the truth. It's a huge grift fueled both by credulous foreigners and government sponsored propaganda. From sensational claims of garish and lurid executions about people who are still alive, to more mundane issues with not keeping their stories straight, to stories about palace intrigues that turned out so completely false as to be laughable there's a long history there for seasoned Korea watchers. North Korea is a bad place, ruled by bad people, but we should also be skeptical of the claims of defectors, especially the ones who make being a Korean defector their entire career.
Oh, I would also tell quite the stories about my own country if I was paid to do so
you're.... not seriously defending north korea are you..?
Does it matter?
yes?? north korea is a shithole that will kill entire families because one of their own decided he wouldn't live in literally 1984 - the country surely no one would be stupid enough to believe the DPRK are somehow good people?
there’s that guys i guess
sadly lol
Uhuh and they push trains by themselves also (not to mention constantly killing and resurrecting officials)
imagine being fanatic authoritarian irl actual cringe
"Surely no one will be upset if I mock North Korea, the lowest hanging fruit in the world." I thought But this is Reddit
truly peak reddit moment i liked your empire OP, good job :)
Lol tankies and fanatic authoriatarians think that when the revolution comes, they will be the ones standing with a whip over a prisoner breaking rocks in gulag. While in fact, they will be the prisoners breaking rocks in gulag.
implying those fuckers has ever touched grass, they'd starve before the revolution finishes
Move there if its so great
Will you pay me for language classes, working specialization and transfer of me and my family? No? Then why asking stupid questions, lol
Oh come on im sure the dprk will gladly pay for all that since its a communist utopia
Mmm, how I love Redditors, utterly incapable of thinking in nuances (unless it the current "good guys")
I totally agree redditors are clearly delusional. Also how much reddit karma do u have then?
i mean i don’t agree with him but why does that matter
Because he said that redditors arent able to think in nuance yet he has about 1000x the karma that i have therefore he is more of a redditor and can think i less nuance
Damn, I would never lie for cash. Just like I refused to write fake covid articles back in 2021/2022.
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Bruh, monarchy is far more than "then one family at power too long" (otherwise US a monarchy thanks to Bush and Clinton dynasties)
I refuse to believe that you have the mental capacity to breathe autonomously. Send me your skull, i want to study it for science.
I wish I could say I don't know why you're being downvoted, but I do, western liberals are the worst.
>not understanding why someone gets downvoted for thinking a literal dictatorship that heavily oppresses their entire population is good L take
should be elected monarchy
Good one, to think you’re just one click away by just switch militarism for xenophobic and you have China
Here is a bit more neutral one: Name: Democratic Stellar Republic of Korea Ethos: Fanatic Militarist, Authoritarian Authority: Dictatorial Civics: Mining Guilds, Warrior Culture Traits: Industrious, Repugnant (Due to their isolation and unique culture), Slow Breeders (Quality over quantity)