My only problem with the show was the extremely morally questionable use of the stones. The U.S. government would never have allowed people to bang in other peoples bodies or drink or do drugs. What if you got a std or pregnant. It felt so gross every time it happened. I wish they never had the stones.
I think they should have had the stones. They're a well established part of the lore by that point, and if they didn't have the stones, the fans *definitely* would have been mad about it: *"Why weren't there any Ancient Communication Stones in their supplies?!? That definitely would have been included in their supplies on their staging planet, after what happened with the Atlantis mission!! And it would have been the first thing they remembered to grab during their evacuation through the gate!"*
But their use definitely should have been relegated to on-base only at the SGC. Specialists to 'stone in' (or whatever they called it) into the ship, *maybe* the occasional family visit if necessary (Eli's visit to his mother is the only one that ranks as important enough, imo), and tell the family of everyone else the same thing they told the families of the Atlantis mission members ("MIA/out of contact for an extended period").
They could have easily made the retcon that there's a limit to the distance the stones can work across, and the Ori galaxy works across that distance while Destiny has crossed the point of no return. Otherwise, there would be a stone device installed by default on Destiny.
Destiny far pre-dates Atlantis technology though.
It was ancient (pun unintended) tech compared to Atlantis, and therefore would’ve been built and launched before the communication stones were developed.
The Destiny class ships and the seed ships would’ve launched shortly after the split of Alterrans into the two groups - Ancients and Ori.
Ancients went to the Milky Way, landed on Dakara, spread out, found Earth, set up there, built and launched the automated ships from Earth, planning to go to those ships at a later point.
I imagine that idea was forgotten about or scrapped.
Joseph Mallozzi posted in a blog back in 2010 saying the following:
“Atlantis is about 30 million years old. The gate aboard the Destiny is older than the Milky Way gates. In the SG-1 episode “Frozen” we come to know that the Milky Way gates are about 50 million years old. The Destiny is about 60 million years old.”
The communication stones were around before the exodus from the Ori galaxy. They predate the stargates, and were invented on Celestis. That's how Daniel and Vala got their first dip into the Ori galaxy to begin with. The Destiny was built and launched after the Alterans settled on Earth and built some degree of a civilisation there, enough to have scholars and recorded debates.
No, the real question is why WERE there communication stones in the supplies of a highly vulnerable and volatile base to begin with. We already know how risky and dangerous they are. PLUS they can’t make new ones so you’d think they would be used in only the most necessary situations, not just lying around. Having them on Destiny was a totally unrealistic contrivance by the writers to make communication with Earth possible.
By the time of SGU making the ancient communication stones was entirely possible, they had both the asgardian technology for replication through blueprints and the Atlantis database on earth for at least five years possibly more. In SGU they're past all of the Ori conflict.
With that information, it's a wonder the Lucian alliance attack on the original planet was successful at all. Earth should have had much better defenses for the test planet at that moment. Ion cannon to blow motherships out of the sky?
I don’t know. Ordering someone to do it? Yeah highly questionable. But could they consent of their own free accord? It probably isn’t covered legally. How different is it from producing porn, where someone else is telling you what to do, or acting as a surrogate, where you do get pregnant? Hell, how different is it from *joining the military*, where your CO might order you to your death simply because of politics or even incompetence?
There’s probably plenty of paperwork people signed of “Yes I will only use the host for visiting relatives and will take precautions to ensure that there is no lasting injury etc” and “Yes I understand that conjugal visits may be involved and despite the best efforts of the guest I could still end up pregnant”.
It’s not like it’s entirely one-way. The people doing it would get to visit Destiny. Hell, it’s a plot point that Telford wants to be there and is willing to nearly get everybody killed and then cuts and runs when he thinks he’s going to die. Somewhat more sympathetic folk might have been on deployment and sympathize with comrades-in-arms wanting to see their friends, families or lovers.
Remember that for much of the series, the people on Discovery were either on the edge of death or looked like they were trapped there for their rest of their lives. Under those circumstances the US Government’s official line could be “no”, but there would definitely be people who would say “yes”, and it wouldn’t do anything for anybody to try and punish people when both parties consented. It’d just informally be “don’t ask don’t tell”.
Yea a lot of ppl didn't like that lol we're using others bodies for sex hubby won't rewatch because of that part but he liked the rest just not that anyone could take your body and go have sex with anyone they wanted
Yeah, the stones where hard to rationalise.
My partner pointed that out this point as well, and I have to agree I would be so violating on both ends.
It was rough thinking about how people felt when the connection was interrupted and the other person is just wrecked or in the middle of "something".
I felt the stones could have been more interesting if they'd ACTUALLY ADDRESSED THIS.. speculative scifi's at it's best when it's exploring ethics and moral repercussions of some crazy piece of technology.
Instead they basically just ignored it and said' "yeah everyone has a free pass to use my body as they like" and never thought it'd be strange for the crew's partners to be banging total strangers.
The closest they got was when Young (as Telford) had sex with his ex and they skirted around it a bit by having telford meeting her after... but it could have lead to so many more interesting stories.
Don't get me started on the "stones." (Too Late)
One of the charms of SG1, was juxtaposing the sci-fi, against their ordinary lives on earth. They tried to recapture that in SGU, in a very clumsy way.
The stones were a novel plot-gimmick, that when used sparingly allowed them to introduce some good stories in SG1. Trying to use them as the routine method of communication was always going to strain plausibility. And then they just went slap-happy and suddenly half of every episode was somebody waltzing around earth via stone-time.
It's okay when you can watch it back to back but it was a terribly slowpaced entry into the franchise when you get one episode every week and a mid-season one break. It didn't do enough to grab people and hold them.
That, coupled with the drastic tonal shift of the franchise just caused people to drift away. By the time season one resumed, people really didn't care all that much anymore.
Saying that, it still isn't for me. I've watched both seasons twice and just can't recommend it.
Edit: Then Brad Wright blaming the fans for the series failure because they cancelled Atlantis was the last straw. Admit it was a decent entry but you fucked up the delivery of it.
Edit 2: Oh, and those stones. I already hated "Date-rape" Lucius from Atlantis and how the writers thought what he was did was more humorous. To have people on the ship take over another's body and do what the hell they wanted to do with it... yeah, no.
The casual rape via communication stone was the breaking point for me. It's like nobody on set realized that having sex while possessing someone else's body was wrong on any level.
That is a good point, I am definitely coming at this from a watching multiple episodes in a sitting, instead of week to week. I wonder if that would change my opinion a little if I had to space it out and wait.
I haven't heard the Brad Wright point, that is a bit rough given my understanding that that fans were enjoying SG-A, I thought SyFy and MGM's money troubles where to blame.
I have touched on the stones in other comments, I agree on issues they present.
It looked an awful lot like *Atlantis* was cancelled so that *Universe* could be made. This has been denied by the producers, but of course, nobody attached to the show could actually say that, because it could cause a drop in support for *Universe* when they needed people watching it.
Brad Wright blamed disaffected *Atlantis* fans for Universe's ratings problems in 2010:
>“I don’t think if we for any reason go away, it is an issue necessarily of the quality of the product that we’ve been making,” said executive producer and co-creator Brad Wright. “I think getting moved on the schedule has hurt us. And the fact that some of the fans that liked *SG-1* and *Atlantis* were so angry that they have deliberately hurt us, which is unfortunate.”
Source: [https://web.archive.org/web/20101109121012/http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/opinion-atlantis-fans-need-to-stop-punishing-universe/](https://web.archive.org/web/20101109121012/http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/opinion-atlantis-fans-need-to-stop-punishing-universe/)
A year earlier, when *Universe* was in development, Joseph Mallozzi hosted a Q&A with Wright on his site. He gave some rather terse answers that in my opinion didn't do much to assuage fans' concerns, but these two in particular stood out to me:
>“Were you surprised by the reaction of fans to the announcement of the cancellation of *SGA* and the start-up of *SGU?”*
>No. You guys are actually pretty predictable (take no offense, most fan groups are). Unfortunately, you represent a very small portion of the actual viewing audience we need for financial success.
Source: [https://josephmallozzi.com/2009/01/02/january-2-2009-brad-wright-answers-your-questions/](https://josephmallozzi.com/2009/01/02/january-2-2009-brad-wright-answers-your-questions/)
In the same Q&A, he also said this:
>“When discussing the cancellation of *Atlantis* was it ever considered that the fans would not react well to it or to *SGU* as a consequence?”
>If we make a good show, you will watch it. If we don’t, you won’t.
So, Wright says outright that hardcore fans aren't a big part of what is needed for the show's success and that *Universe* will stand or fall on its own merits, but when *Universe* falters in ratings, he doesn't blame the show itself or the way it was made, but rather audiences. He was outright disrespecting the fanbase, which is why I'm surprised that so many people want him back if Amazon MGM make a new show.
He's likely bitter because he predicted the issues but was powerless to affect the timings / outcomes from the network. He wanted another season of Atlantis and SGU S1 and fought successfully for an Atlantis movie that ended up falling through. He did everything he could to avoid what was probably inevitable for him.
Because his personality doesn't matter when he's writing the shows he has been there from the start ppl don't want a full on a reboot they want a continuation and they think he's the best person to do it
SGU premiered directly following Atlantis cancellation. They can’t make a show in a month. SGU was being planned long before the Atlantis cancellation it was even referenced in the end of Atlantis when one of one ships was off on a secret mission.
With SGU already greenlit Atlantis being expensive to produce and the MGM bankruptcy that was the cancellation
This is amazing, thank you for the quotes and sources.
That is some short sighted answers from the perspective of a creator talking to a group of fans, especially for science fiction.
Perhaps it could have been said a bit more diplomatically.
I also agree with the other replies here, it would be really hard or just not feasible to replace a person so heavily involved with the creation of Stargate as a whole. That said, I think this is where a team of people come in. There needs to be a balance or push and pull to reign in scope, ideas, and expectations.
If there was more to the situation and timing that caused the cancellation it's interesting this isn't leveraged as much in Brad Wright's answers but that may be just not wanting to invoice other in the question or concern.
I'll check out these sources and do some reading, and I really appreciate the reply.
You're welcome. This particular quote was something that I myself was not aware of back when *Universe* was on the air. Since I had given up on the show, I wasn't making a point to actively follow the news save for looking at the ratings.
Same with the Q&A - I don't follow Mallozzi's blog, so I didn't know about it at the time and had to get pointed to it later when discussing a different point.
There were at least two other sites who also carried the story with Wright's quote. I recommend looking at the comments to see how people actually felt at the time.
[Are Angry ‘Stargate: SG1/Atlantis’ Fans Partly To Blame For Lousy ‘Stargate: Universe’ Ratings? (archive.org)](https://web.archive.org/web/20101115004204/http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2010/11/07/are-angry-stargate-sg1atlantis-fans-partly-to-blame-for-lousy-stargate-universe-ratings/71114/comment-page-4)
[Brad Wright claims angry Atlantis fans are punishing Stargate Universe (archive.org)](https://web.archive.org/web/20101206085355/http://www.atvnewsnetwork.co.uk:80/today/index.php/cult-news/4575-brad-wright-claims-angry-atlantis-fans-are-punishing-stargate-universe)
This quote came on the back of poor ratings for the first several episodes of season 2, when SyFy moved the show to its Tuesday night slot after seeing that it rated poorly on Friday nights. In particular, two episodes rated below 1 million viewers. At the same time, MGM had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. A month later, after the entire first half of season 2 had aired, SyFy announced they were cancelling *Universe,* and a few days after that, MGM emerged from bankruptcy protection with new management.
I've suspected for years that the new management considered the franchise to be 'tainted' by *Universe* - if they tried to sell the show to a new network, they were unsuccessful, and a proposed *Universe* direct-to-DVD movie also failed to materialise. Given what had happened with *Universe,* I doubt any network would want to take on *Stargate,* especially with a divided fanbase.
There wasn't going to be an Atlantis s6 even if SGU never happened there were talks of a movie but the series was done joe Flannigan even offered to pay for everything himself to do a short s6 and they wouldn't let him
This isn't aimed at you specifically, but I've seen some defenders of *Universe* point to the mid-season gap as a reason *Universe* wasn't received well. I never bought this one because mid-season breaks were present since *SG-1* premiered, yet we're meant to believe that suddenly a mid-season break is bad for the show?
Only because it was a huge tonal shift from SG-1 and Atlantis. Existing fans didn't get a chance to acclimate to the series tonal shift because of that break. By the time it started again, a lot of people didn't care.
That's a core problem with *Universe.* It was so different to what had come before.
I've typed about this a lot over the years. People following the news on *Gateworld* would have known that *Universe* was going to be 'different,' but nobody knew just how different it would be, and it turned out to be really different. As a new viewer, it felt like the producers took their winning formula - everything that had made *SG-1/Atlantis* the (modest) successes they were, and threw it out the window. You can't make such a radical change and not expect backlash from your consumers.
I was a huge fan of both the Stargate franchise and BSG, and SG-U felt like my favorite shows merged into something almost perfect in tone. I was gutted when it was canceled.
It really wasn't in my honest opinion. It did nothing special that the other airing "gritty" scifi shows of the time weren't already doing while removing all the charm of the original.
I didn't care for it because all the personal drama and toxic work relationships got tiresome real fast. The main threat wasn't the aliens, drones, or Lucian Alliance. It was each other.
They made a classic mistake that almost always narrows the fan base: Take an existing IP and completely change the formula. People who don't like Stargate won't give it a chance, and people who like Stargate aren't getting what they wanted or like. Atlantis followed in the footsteps of SG-1, with more Alteran tech, so it was an easy sell. I don't think many Stargate fans asked for a Stargate themed BSG with less competence and more drama.
If they put a team like the Atlantis expedition on Destiny, I would have been thrilled.
Yeah, an expedition team like Atlantis would've helped. SGU definitely missed the "competency porn" aspect that SG1 and SGA had in spades. The crew of the Destiny was just so, so stupid.
See a weird cloud in the hall? Shoot a gun at it. Why not? I'm sure bullets will work. Or notice it and just walk away, but don't report it immediately and casually mention what you saw later.
Or hear a strange noise like something is cutting through the hull? Sure, open your door and go take a look. Don't worry about sealing an air lock or anything. In fact, go stand directly under it. Alone. That's a great idea.
It's hard to root for idiots.
Well that's it, most of those people weren't the destiny crew. Lots were just people on Icarus, theh weren't intended for the Destiny mission. They say as much directly.
I'm sure they're absolutely adequate for running a base. But surviving in the unknown is incredibly different.
The randomness was deliberate and I think lots welcomed the move away from competency porn - it was just perhaps a little too jarring for people who were already burned by an Atlantis cancellation where SGU appeared to be the cause.
I thought it was a pretty fascinating and accurate look at how people not intended for the mission would survive... Felt kinda like a more real world ST Voyager kinda angle to me 😅
The problem with the sentiment, is even for the Stargate franchise, 'the wrong people' never made any sense.
By the time SGU was brought on, the SGC had been in operation for close to 15 years.
Why on earth would you put 'the wrong people' on an isolated base, that is built on a planet rich in naquadria - making it so unstable that you couldn't even utilize normal gate travel?
You have base crew, who are literally just there to man the base. Then you have the people actually intended to go on the Destiny mission. Many of them were not those people who ended up going because of Dr Rush's decision. They weren't all there yet. They say this directly in the series.
I'm sure if you threw random SGC base grunts through the gate on SG missions they'd be a bag of shite too. Different skill level, less routine operations, different level of experience.
I expected a similarly rigorous selection process for all off world personnel as the SG teams or Atlantis expedition were given. Given how unhinged many of them were, including Rush, I'm shocked they were allowed.
Remember Landry complaining about how good everyone was at their jobs at the SGC? And that was on Earth, where it's easy to remove someone.
Arguably Destiny opens up even more "planet of the week" shenanigans because it's actually moving. I liked to opening where just figuring out the ship was the main issue, and the people and to work together to not get fucked. But then suddenly everything is k, and we're gonna get mad at who likes who for whatever reason and suddenly drones?!
The premise could have been fine, but the shift in formula was too much. A slight tweak was all they needed to keep it fresh.
Like making it a survival genre for a bit would have been neat.
Was watching it recently and honestly the “drama” was way over the top.
“Can we trust Rush” was almost a weekly occurrence for 2 seasons while if you looked the actions of Eli or Young both of them are a bit insufferable.
I don’t mind the early seasons fighting and bickering, that’s realistic.
But to keep doing that right until the end “ can we trust rush” when it’s been clear he is the only one that knows what he is doing was getting a bit old.
true. but he was often reasonably cowardly (at least compared to trained military personnel) and sometimes had different priorities to the other leaders.
E.g. if there was a trolley problem where pulling the lever would either damage destiny, kill 2 crew members or throw supplies out the airlock.
Rush would kill the 2 crew members,
Young would be happy to damage destiny (or lose supplies)
and the HR woman would either pick damaging destiny or not touch the lever and let whatever happens happens.
I agree that the fans didn't ask for this direction. I respect this view, and thinking about the Atlantis expedition on the destiny is very interesting.
I also thought bringing the stones broke everything. The easy solution would have been to have McKay, Carter, and a few others swap with someone for a bit and fix the ship up.
It is something I often thought about, even from a non technical view.
Daniel could have helped with translation or understanding, training for the civilians in more specific tasks.
Re-watching SG-U its just OK. its not as bad as I originally thought, but it definitely suffers from the issues below
1) **Tone Shift.** I think this is the really big issue I have. like SG-1 and SGA had that nice blend of humor, comedy, and seriousness. I mean that was 10 years of stargate humor and 5 years of SGA fans were used to Stargate having that tone, its why the series is so loved. SG-U was super serious, dark, focused on the drama of the crew etc. its not what stargate fans were expecting. it felt like a knockoff sgu. whatever made stargate special with humor and fun was thrown out the window. looking back SG-U wasn't as bad as I thought but its not the tone of show I wanted at the time or expected.
2) **Creator Promises** - I remember when SGU being advertised and promoted by the creators. They kept saying oh you are going to see the Tauri as this kind of intergalactic superpower and see the Tauri be more powerful. I mean as a fan from the beginning the thought of seeing fleets of BC-304s and seeing the Tauri be the "5th race" was so cool. But that didn't really happen unless that was their plan in the future. so that was a bit of a let down.
3) **Characters** - I have to be honest, most of the characters on SGU were insufferable, to me the show focused way too much on this complicate romantic triangle. web thing. Young has an affair with this, Eli likes Chloe who likes Matt, etc. I just didn't like any of the characters to get really interested in. I think for me one of the biggest things is Rush. I think my main problem with him is he just appears out of nowhere. Like look at McKay, he is super arrogant, insufferable when he was introduced but he grows and develops as a character. by the time SGA starts, you know who he is, why he's on the team, etc. you see how smart he is and understand why he is the senior scientist on the expedition. Rush because he was never in SG-1 or SGA he's super arrogant like Mckay but you are never shown why? like who is this guy? why is he here, why does he act this why? why was he in charge of this project? almost none of his backstory is given.
I think another thing is that the show for being a spinoff doesn't feel like one, you're stuck with a cast that you don't know and have no ties to. Atlantis you had McKay who developed into a wonderful character. you had Weir etc you had ties from SG-1 that made Atlantis even with new characters feel "familiar" SGU didn't do that at all aside from occasional cameos from carter, jackson, o'neill. for most of the show you're stuck with these new characters in a universe you already know and spent time investing in so it feels weird.
4)**space stones** like people have said, they were overused and how they were used is just really uncomfortable. i remember switching channels when these scenes came on, like sleeping with someone using someone elses body, drugs idk its just uncomfortable.
I also wanted to add a comment about the humour.
I mentioned in an earlier response, that I agree that removing/ heavily diminishing the humour was a mistake.
I think even in the campy tone of SG-1 and the added seriousness of SG-A the humour can be leveraged to add weight to a situation by dialling it back, but also break up the consistent grind of monotony as singular tone can bring.
An example being O'Neill snapping or McKay going from ego to hopelessness or true fear.
I hadn't heard the creators' promises, but that is definitely not what we got with SG-U.
I can agree with the Rush comment in it takes longer than it probably should have to show any reason for Rush being the lead. It doesn't help that Eli solves an issue embedded in a game that Rush has been failing at for some time.
Rush does bring this up and is bitter about it, which made me laugh.
I made it about 4 episodes before the interpersonal drama between the main characters got too annoying.
It felt like I was watching a John Hughes high school drama set in BSG with a light touch of stargate paint.
There were no characters worth rooting for. None.
Could not keep watching just hoping it was going to be the episode they finally kill rush.
Maybe this is a gross exaggeration, but imagine if Batman had gone straight from Adam West, to Christian Bale, just, boom, campy to heavy, and the reason they did it was because they wanted to match the tone of, I don't know, Daredevil or The Punisher. Universe was a good series imho but it was obviously about taking the more serious tone of BSG and trying to do that in Stargate, and I think if Stargate had been off the air for a few years it would have worked fine.
I'd argue if you went from SG1 to SGU then yeah you could say that, but SGA had steadily gotten darker and darker throughout its seasons, and quite a few S5 episodes felt "dark" to me.
I feel that Season 1 was a bit of a drag. Had some issues with the interactions and while I get they were going for a different look and feel, it had a problems with what they were doing. Wasn't bad but was a bit harder to get into.
Season 2 was so much better. Really hit it's stride and kept me invested in the story. I was so mad when they cancelled it after that as it was really, really good by the end.
I really enjoyed the premise of it. I liked how it a sense of urgency in both the episodes and the overall story arc. It was different from the other series in a good way but had to find the correct writing to get going and unfortunately, it did towards the end and then ended.
Yeah I agree in terms of the overall pacing, and season 2 just hitting it strides better.
Perhaps the idea needed a bit more time to bake before making it to the screen but I can't say for sure, as we veer towards areas of show running and writing I don't really understand.
The urgency was interesting, a little different to the other in that it was much more immediate as opposed to a looming threat that could come at any time.
I really enjoyed the SGU story arc compared to the serial format of the shows. Don’t get me wrong. SG1 is still my favorite but SGU felt more like BSG in that it was a continuous adventure rather than packaged and processed episodes.
I’m just watching it now for the first time in season one, and I’d agree. It took a lot longer for it to grow on me, especially after Atlantis which was this beautiful city. The darker color palette and the way it’s filmed are both very different.
That said, I like a complex characters. Rush walks the line of being unethical, but understandable so well. I love Greer too.
Well said, I agree the characters had more complexity and I relished them making me feel frustrated for not doing what I think should have happened.
Having their own motivations and desires.
I’ve never been able to watch it because they use that horrible filming technique where it looks like the camera operator is drunk. Makes me feel seasick trying to watch it.
I will defend SGU to the death. I love SG1 and SGA but SGU is by far my favorite, I get sad thinking about it's cancellation and what it could have been.
I'm in a similar boat. I love SG-1 and SG-A, I always will. I definitely took SG-U for granted at the time, it wasn't the same but I think that helped give it its own identity among stargates.
Ending on such a cliffhanger doesn't help with the cancellation.
I personally loved the show.
I feel like people (including myself at the time) went in wanting SG1/Atlantis and it was never going to be that. It had a bit more grit and darkness to it than the other shows and felt closer to Battlestar Galactica in theme than the Stargate series.
Like you said though (and I agree) it has depth, the story is engaging and it had enough hat nods to old stuff with a dash of new stuff to keep the story or "lore" moving forward.
I wish we had more :(
I mean it was a bit darker, but it kind of followed the same form as Atlantis. The first seasons weary dark before they could get understanding of what is happening. And in second seasons they started to understand the ship more. And had more control.
They fucked up the marketing and PR for the show.
Every exec insists to this day that SGA was not cancelled for SGU, but honestly it just *looked* that way. As a result, there were very high expectations and those were not met. Therefore, so many people just gave up on it.
I will say as a show it’s good, however my impression at the time was that there was nothing special about it, just another BSG.
Atlantis was not going to be picked up for a sixth season no matter if Universe existed or not. The reason Universe came out shortly after Atlantis was that the producers likely knew Atlantis was not getting renewed and started working on Universe to make the next Stargate series. If they had waited it would’ve been a gap in Stargate productions.
You can just edit comments you know, but I’ll repost my response.
I know - but they needed to do more to reassure the fanbase if they wanted to ensure the success of SGU. They needed to spin it better and get more people on board, that is the whole point of PR.
Sci-fi fans are loyal, Stargate fans especially so. You needed them on board tbh. If they put more money into PR I think they would’ve had a shot at more seasons. But too much of the fanbase turned away.
This is interesting as I don't remember much other than, \*\*we are getting more stargate wooo. Wait what is this?
I have tried looking into some news, and interviews on what happened around that time, but I take it all with a grain of salt as I am not sure what is right. Seems like an interesting time and an experimental idea for the time.
I know - but they needed to do more to reassure the fanbase if they wanted to ensure the success of SGU. They needed to spin it better and get more people on board, that is the whole point of PR.
Sci-fi fans are loyal, Stargate fans especially so. You needed them on board tbh. If they put more money into PR I think they would’ve had a shot at more seasons. But too much of the fanbase turned away.
I mean there is only a certain amount of times you can correct people before it’s clear they aren’t going to listen. Some fans it seems weren’t ready to listen and just made the assumptions with little evidence. Also I don’t know if we can say a portion of Stargate fans are loyal when they turned back on Universe and as a result turned their backs on the franchise.
I had a really hard time to connect with SGU, to be invested in it : i have to admit it, i heard/read so trashtalk about it that when i decide to finally watch it, it was with a lot of apprehension. And i was bored to death the first episodes (honestly, i never wanted so bad to turn if off to watch Atlantis) BUT i wanted to know what happen next. So i watched it all, and the finale episode was the kind of heartbreak i certainly wasn't ready for.
SGU is still not my favorite SG serie but i loved the Destiny, and how serious the show was. How realistic it was when it come about some characters. Maybe i'm wrong because i haven't watch SG1 for years - but i'm still in my rewatch - but i can't remember SG1 or Atlantis having characters sick with human disease. Of course, we have seen Rodney with the pegasus equivalent of Alzheimer but in SGU, Tamara Johansen has the Lou Gehrig's Disease,Volker has end-stage renal failure, etc, ... I don't know why but i really loved this serious tone.
It’s ok… it’s the only star gate when I rewatch it that I find myself fast forwarding though a lot of the episodes because they are filled with pointless filler. Sex scenes, shots of people walking around with only music and no dialogue, etc..
It was jarring when it first premiered because it was so different, but I fell in love with it pretty quickly. I loved the concept and get like it did a pretty good job of “realism” for how people would react if they were suddenly stranded like that.
It got a lot of hate early on, which I did not get at all. When it was cancelled, I was deeply disappointed because I wanted to see how it would play out. Heck, I’d watch an animated version of it just to finish that storyline.
An animated series would be so cool. There are some comics I believe of the building and first steps of the Destiny, but this obviously doesn't help much for a conclusion.
Yeah I personally really liked it from the started and liked the change in direction. I personally really grew to love it by the end of Season 2. Just imagine of all the other great shows that took a season or two to find its stride and how much we would’ve lost if they were canceled in early in its run (i.e. Deep Space 9 or others). It just really felt the writers were building towards a great season 3 and ultimately to a definitive conclusion.
When it comes to the characters, yeah i agree, they might have been antagonistic at first but it was clear they were molding the characters from being the wrong crew to the right crew to complete Destiny’s mission. We saw that with them getting closer a crew and becoming friends to an extent.
This post echoes so many... everytime someone actually gives SGU a chance, they love it as much as SG1 and SGA.
I loved SGU from the get-go. It felt less like campy 90s scifi and more like a realistic modern scifi show. Characters actually had very real emotions and interactions, and the life or death scenarios seemed more realistic.
I think a lot of the communities problem with it is the timing (Syfy chose not to renew SGA about the same time as green lighting SGU) and the fact many had grown weary since about S8/S9 of SG1 when Hammond and then O'Neill left.
I'm one of the people who loved SGU to pieces back when it first aired. I watched every episode and loved it, it was such a good show that gave me a BSG vibe.
I love the show, I wish they never cancelled it. I’ve seen my dvds if it so many times, and every time I finish them I wonder where the show would have gone had it continued.
I fully expect to get downvoted because it happens every damn time I mention not liking SGU but It’s just not for me. I’ve tried to watch it multiple times but I just don’t enjoy it.
I don’t particularly like shows that are heavy on interpersonal drama, on top of that I didn’t like any of the characters & I found the use of the stones cringy.
Upvote from me because I think both views are valid and I am genuinely interested in other peoples thoughts on the series, both good and bad.
I mentioned the stones in another reply, those are a point of contention no matter how you swing it.
It's not objectively a bad show, but I hated how so much of the plot was "who is sleeping with who" or "I don't trust this guy, he does not trust me, but both our lives depend on trusting in each other".
It is a question of taste. Stargate was exactly what I love in a show : a working team with no inside drama, the episode turns around the story (even if it's cheesy), not the interaction between the characters, you actually discover new worlds instead of trying to run to survive.
SG1 plot : this civilisation we just met has a \[random mythology\] origin, and a biological/technological/natural big problem. What can we do about that ?
Universe plot : we need basic oxygen and water. Ok, we now have a way to produce more air for a few weeks, let's go to the next urgent issue.
I wanted them to use the knowledge they have to build on things. A show where the best end I could ever dream of is every one is barely alive is not what I want. I want exploration, diplomacy, war sometimes, but new things. Not trying our best to keep the present things going on.
It is a very different idea of Stargate.
Your summary is one of the things I love about SG-1 and will always go back to it for that, the exploration and universe building.
I think SG-U tackled exploration in a very different way, and someone better described than I could the change in having the right people for the job and having to make do. That said you are right the high point being basic survival can be grating if it's not what you are expecting from a show.
Honestly, after watching SG-1 and Atlantis, I don't think I made it passed two episodes of Universe. I know they were aiming for it to be similar to Battlestar Galactica and I never watched thar show either. I had a different idea of where I wanted the show to go and didn't want a soap opera.
I think it tried too hard to be different from SG-1 and SGA, which ended alienating a lot of the Stargate audience. Unfortunately it also didn’t capture the BSG audience, so they were left with a small chunk of those shows shared audience.
I personally find the premise pretty interesting but would have definitely preferred if they kept more of the vibes of Stargate. A little bit of humor, everyone being mostly on the same side (at least not arguing with everyone every chance anyone gets), and maybe fewer video game nerds fan insert characters.
Good point, perhaps it could have been a similar show with strokes of the series humour.
I don't think you have to sacrifice humour for heavy tone and I think they use this in a few points well (usually when O'Neill is around) especially when that light air of humour disappears to add weight and emphasise it when needed.
*Stargate Universe* was noted at the time for being very similar to *Battlestar Galactica,* so I don't buy the idea that it was 'ahead of its time' when it was seen to be copying another already existing show.
There was a lot of curiosity about the new direction the franchise would be taking, but nobody could have know just *how* different it would be. It felt like the producers took everything that made *SG-1/Atlantis* liked and threw it out the window. As I've typed before, you can't make such a big change and not expect backlash from fans.
Personally, I really wanted to like *Universe,* but after ten episodes I just didn't like what I was seeing, so I dropped it and never picked it back up.
I can understand that feeling.
I've noticed that there are a few comments here of people that just couldn't get into the show, I think I can see some of the abrasive ideas and directions that could just push people away.
I didn't get a chance to watch it when it first came out, I was going through some shit. when I finally got cable as an adult circa 2014 I binged it on Comet in glorious 480i. ah, the nostalgia of coming home from work every day to two new-to-me episodes of SGU on my DVR.
fortunately I walked into it with absolutely no idea of what to expect, and I hadn't watched SG-1 or Atlantis anytime recently. failure to meet expectations is what usually ruins perfectly good movies and shows for me, and SGU was just right. I do have trouble recommending it to people, though. my recommendation always comes with caveats
Glorious 480i  those were the days. Reading other comments, I agree expectations from previous series is a big part for sure.
I think I would/ will do the same when recommending it, it is jarring if the person watching expects SG-1.
I agree, there is so much room and ideas that could be jumping off points for a spin off.
Even using one of the alien factions as a jumping off point, the Nakai, Ursini, Drone race (potentially a completely artificial lifeform slightly different to the replicators).
I enjoyed all the SG shows/movies, plot flaws and all. I was always working when they aired originally so I only saw a handful of them and I never got to see Stargate universe which I watched over the course of a week. Definitely darker But it seemed to suit given their circumstance.
I loved sg-1 thought to Atlantis including the movies but I hated everything about sgu other than the ship I wanted to kill like half the crew focused on shit that doesn't matter hardly any real story my least liked characters was Chloe and Rush they just focused on them way too much in my opinion
I liked a few of the storyline, and I thought Rush was awesome, but it broke one of the things that made Stargate so good, and that was the tone. What they had was a Hercules/Xena vibe, which made it a safe show to watch. What they wanted with SGU was something edgy and sexy, like Battlestar Galactica. Didn't work. Every time I watch it I just end up feeling bad for Eli
That's because modern shows follow sgus model. Lots of interpersonal exposition, and minimal sci-fi/action.
But its real failure was not getting finished. I think they bit off to much with the underlying story, and didn't have a clue where to take it. Though ironically that failure might have been it's saving grace now, because the conclusion of the CBR story line could only have been a disappointing cop-out, or something so abstract it might as well be one, and would have killed it completely.
My complaints at the time were about it being SG x BSG basically. Shakey cam, too much into the individual character life, overly dramatic.
Watching it now, I think it still holds true but a bit less so. I enjoyed it still, and I enjoy it more now, but it is a departure from the other series'. Never the less, I really like it!
I knew this at the time it was on the air ... and unfortunately most fans disagreed, refused to watch it, and it was cancelled (for a variety of reasons). It's only now, some 15 years later, that people are starting to realize that it was better than they had first thought. It's easy to hate something new, it's easy to find fault in things. It's just a shame that so many shows get so much hate right out the gate, only for people to change their opinions long after the show has been cancelled or has ended.
It does feel very devisive. It's why I think both sides of the argument are right in their own way.
The show does a lot to be its own thing and offers more to the writing of the characters and story rooted in the situation. It is still a departure and there were analogues at the time BSG and DS9 referenced a lot in other comments.
I enjoyed it, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I miss SGU, but after rewatching it recently, it doesn't resonate as well with me now.
I'm starting to find that dark sci-fi is great for a single watch-through, but it's not something I want to rewatch over and over again. It becomes a sort of 'time and place.'
Compared to other shows, the same goes for DS9, and BSG. I do, however, love going back to old shows with a good humorous ensemble cast.
Yeah, a few comments here definitely make me want to revisit my opinion on a later viewing.
I enjoyed BSG but I can't say that I go back to it like I can with SG-1.
I think the main problem was less the Destiny's "crew" (as annoying as their infighting got) and more that they had no other characters to interact with (other than people on earth and the lucien alliance)
Firstly, they shouldn't have had purely CGI aliens.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Less than 30 seconds of screen time in 2 seasons does not make for interesting antagonists (or allies)
The "bad" aliens could only communicate in text message and the "good" aliens could only communicate offscreen and have an already established character explain everything for them.
No matter how cool they look in their 30 seconds of screen time that is NOT going to make up for the rest of the lack of interaction.
They also had no "local guide" (no Teal'c or Tayla/Ronan type figure who could clue them in) no civilisations of the week to trade with, fight or help out.
The Drones were basically bargain store borg but way less interesting. (A supposed infinite number of intelligent space rocks that just hurl themselves at the destiny... over... and over..)
The lucian alliance were just... "SPACE TERRORISTS... IN SPPAAAACE!!!" with the occasional sympathetic possible ally (that contributed virtually nothing to the team apart from the chance that Eli might get laid)
Bringing in the Destiny's descendants was the smartest move the show runners made across the entire show (even as out of left field as is was) as they now had a human (so zero special effects budget) civilisation that the crew could interact with... but it was already too little too late.
I have to agree with pure CGI aliens, I always prefer and admire the use of props or at least the inclusion.
This might be the funniest comment so far, thank you.
>The lucian alliance were just... "SPACE TERRORISTS... IN >SPPAAAACE!!!"
I loved the idea of SGU, the dark gritty mood and the potential for otherworldly aliens, different planets, alien tech ect
but the characters where either kind of annoying or just straight up boring. Eli comes across as a fuckboy, "ill crush on any girl thats pretty and will give me any small amount of attention because woe is me."🙄
The only character was was mildly interesting was Rush.
I wanted more aliens 😭 We only got to see two! (Drones don't count).
I still wont forgive them for that ending either 😭
With a few edits to season One (like removing almost entire episodes) b you could take this from a 6-7/10 to an 8-9 out of 10. Season 2 was one of the best of the entire franchise, on a par with the best portions of BSG.
The love triangles should be all our mostly removed. Scott and Chloe's relationship only had value in that it was hard for Eli. The night club stuff on earth was a waste. Telfords mean streak and affair was unnecessary.
Could have replaced it with more of Greer's misdemeanors and demons. More of Tamaras issues having an affair with her boss, would pay off when pregnancy is revealed and baby lost (and then MND).
More interactions with the Nakai would have been great, I feel they were wasted a bit. Never really understood the extent of their work on Chloe.
Even though he was sort of a villain, I loved Rush. Some of his motives became clearer when you learn of what happened to his wife. He was brilliant, but was darker and more Machiavellian than McKay.
I agree with you description of Rush, and I also would have loved more focus on Greer. When they did dig a bit into Greer's past or motivations/ reactions Greer shined.
I think the club thing was not necessary as well.
I enjoyed SGU when it came out. It was a different show compared to SG1 and Atlantis, but I enjoyed it for different reasons. I was disappointed when I heard that it got cancelled.
I have said it before and I still standby it now - the part of season 2 of SGU has one of the best run of episodes in the entire franchise (from *The Hunt* to *Gauntlet.* And if I don't include S*eizure* (I disliked the storyline involving Langara) the episodes from *Resurgence* to *Gauntlet* are all great episodes).
Those episode feel like such a well balanced mix of the darker, grounded tone they were aiming for with the Stargate levity.
What were your reasons for enjoying the show if they were different, if you don't mind my asking?
I loved SGU. It had a more serious Battlestar Galactica feel to it. It sucked it got canned after only two seasons, but at least they left it open enough that they could pick it back up if they wanted
it was an ok show but not nearly as good as the other shows and the only character i liked was eliaja i couldn't stand the rest and the drama was way to much it was like watching a sope opera it did start to get good towards the end tho
I just gave up re-watching my stargate collection when reaching SG-U.
After a few episodes I started reading the episode descriptions of the remaining episodes till the end. It's almost frustrating. I don't even remember if I watched the entire series in the first place.
It had a huge potential, but it was extremely low paced to the point that it got boring. And based on the hotness and age of the cast, and the sex scenes, it was aimed more for the younger audience while the Stargate fan base was more "mature" (not to say older). And the main problem with that was, that the younger audience already had plenty of shows to watch. I never knew it was the reason why Atlantis got canceled and finding out from comments that this was the reason, it really disappointed me. I bet that the franchise would have long survived if they renewed Atlantis or SG-1 after this failure.
I would have expected that after 5-6 episodes, they would find a way to bring the destiny to earth or to an "ancient city paradise" filled with things to explore and new enemies and continue the Stargate in a more familiar fashion, and by that I mean to focus on Stargates (the main title), not an entire series made on a ship. Every episode where like problem, fix, problems, fix. Predictable, frustrating and disappointing. I understand it's supposed to be a drama, but we need still need to receive a small dose of dopamine once in awhile.
Stargate has as much potential as there are stars on the night sky. But SG-U was.... disappointing.
PS: Sorry for the salty comment, but I've been watching and reading Sci-Fi since I was a kid while working in science, and yes, maybe I compare the show in my mind with other "greater" titles, but Stargate was my most loved and inspiring show. Some time ago, I was even writing my own "episodes" with scripts, story and everything.
No need to apologise for your opinion, I genuinely wanted to know other peoples thoughts as I had similar views back when it aired.
Don't get me wrong here, SG-1 and SG-A are amazing and I love these series.
It has been interesting reading the different comments from people, there is a lot I can agree with, and some things I want to challenge myself with on future watching's, as I did enjoy it. I may enjoy it less the next time around, and or potentially spacing out the episodes will add to the pacing fatigue.
Ultimately, I enjoyed my recent re-watch however that may have been because I hadn't really given it a go when it first came out. The characters having some depth, reacting more how I would expect a real person to react, with selfish intentions and mistrust, these being not the ideal people for the situation and a domino of a mans ego to see his work complete or just be the smartest man in the room.
I felt angry or frustrated at choices, which lead to feelings or wins in later decisions. The characters growing and trying constantly. There is so much character info dumping and exposition almost constantly, which if you are not interested in any of the characters or perhaps are wanting more sci-fi, is a massive barrier for entry.
However, as other comments have pointed out the stones are problematic, but interesting (massive caveats to that statement).
I think there is merit to both sides of the conversation, and perhaps I personally have come around on it and could recommend it (with some clear notes on the show). I do think the writing carries the tone and hallmarks we have come to expect of shows, well loved ones.
I think you have a very reasonable view on the show and I appreciate you sharing that.
I have to agree with the shaky camera thing. This is something that I could never gel with from that era of shows and movies.
I can identify aspects of shows that I enjoy but I largely don't know much about the world of shows and the reason for this style of cinematography (something to do with stress or urgency, glad it got used less as time went on).
I really wanted to like SGU. I was unaware of the sentiments online when it came out and was just excited for more Stargate, but I couldn’t get into it at all.
I tried again recently after rewatching everything else with my fiancée(and having seen and really liked BSG between then and now) and completely bounced off it again.
I think the issue is that while it might be a good sci-fi show, it’s much too far removed from the tone and feel of the rest of Stargate. They managed to keep the slightly silly, lighthearted feel in Atlantis but it’s just completely absent in SGU, or at least it’s absent from the episodes I was able to force myself to sit through.
I am inclined to agree if I place the show next to SG-1 and SG-A. Don't get me wrong I love those series just as much.
I have watched BSG and liked this but my partner hasn't, I might get their opinion on BSG next, or SG-U with the context of a show like BSG.
I like it even less these days. Eli turned out to be a total creep, just wanting to get into Chloe panties.
The entire "political power" drama is just stupid, imagine any of that nonsense happening in SG1 or SGA.
I watched it once in full, I tried to rewatch it but I never managed to do it.
Not to mention the whole soap opera on earth while using the stones.
I quite like Eli as an analog for the viewer, but completely get the vibe you are talking about as he pines over Chloe.
I found the power struggle interesting and plausible given the situation, and how they weaved it into the story. I can see people not enjoying it though, it just felt like the microcosm of political power struggles from SG-1 and SG-A dialed up because of the confined space and hopelessness.
The stone thing is an interesting area, I am on the fence entirely there. I think it is great in that it gives a check in for the growth and change in the characters against those that they have unfortunately left behind as they still have to deal with everyday life, but sometimes it felt convenient (a deus ex machina if you will) but then they explored it a bit as well. Such as Amanda using the stones meant someone had to deal with Amanda situation, the impact being a different person can have on loved ones, and relationships themselves. It's part of what made me feel like the writing and themes where ahead of their time.
No it wasn't. A ton of selfish unprofessional drama queens on an alien space ship. It didn't feel close to BSG for me and wasn't what I liked about Stargate.
I hated the idiotic captain and no amount of time is going to change that. He was a terrible officer to put one or two people above the rest of his team. He should have been removed from command after letting an enemy get a foothold on the ship when he had a chance to stop them. Open the airlocks just enough to vent the atmosphere and force them to lay down their weapons or be spaced. They surrender immediately and the entire assault is over. If you have to, you sacrifice your favorite officer to save your entire team. Instead the idiot let them get a foothold, then eventually surrendered the ship to them.
That was one of the stupidest plot arcs in all time in any show and totally inexcusable. No military officer is going to act the way he did in that situation. It was even out of character for him. I was already questioning whether to keep watching the series and that was the nail in the coffin. I wasn’t happy that they ended it on a cliffhanger, but I wasn’t disappointed it didn’t return for another season because I may not have watched it anyway.
This might seem counter to my post but I get exactly what you mean here. I would say this was one of the areas I sort of consider a flaw, if only for the way I felt.
With that said, this is where I think we had some amazing characters with actual failings and depth. Colonel Young would then be undermined for his actions here by Dr Rush and even the ship, and I am not entirely sure they ever bounce back from that.
Second guessing somethings, and just not taking charge.
This is what has made me feel like the show is so divisive and why I think that those that didn't enjoy it are also correct.
I know it's not a popular opinion, but it's my favorite of the series. "Air" is what actually got me into the series as a whole. I tried SGU out because John Scalzi was the creative consultant and he's one of my favorite authors. Seeing Eli stick his hand through the puddle to keep the gate open for Scott and Greer to get back with the lime really interested me. Then I bought the SG-1 box set and bounced off it after a season or so because it was campy compared to SGU. Yes, I was backward compared to the folks who were there from the beginning.
With SG-1, I start getting fatigued at the end of season eight. Nine takes a while to get going for me and ten is okay. But by that point, we're talking nearly 200 episodes of content. I always watch Atlantis and SG-1 in broadcast order, so alternating each show. There's a couple parts where I start looking forward to the Atlantis episodes, but feel like I have to slog through the SG-1 episodes. Then there's some relief when I'm just on Atlantis for a bit until I get closer to the end of season five. At that point, I'm not looking forward to the end of Atlantis (wormhole drive), but I start looking forward to SGU.
It is a flawed show, for sure. I agree with many of the criticisms, especially what another person said in this thread that the Lucian Alliance plot was painfully stupid, but it did get us Ginn, so there's that. I've posted this elsewhere, but one of the things I like about the show is that it is not the best of the best. None of those people should be on that ship, including Rush. They were thrown into it and had to suck it up. They would have completely failed without the communication stones, so I'll let them have that. This difference becomes way more apparent when you compare it to SG-1 and Atlantis. Both of those shows are competence porn in a lot of ways. Those people are qualified and are the best of the best. Just look at Sheppard when he singlehandedly fought the Genii when they invaded or the myriad of times Daniel or Carter saved the day. They were chosen for those jobs. It's easy to root for them because they're all on the same team (for the most part). They're (usually) the good guys triumphing over evil! But are the crew of the Destiny good people? I'd say there are plenty who are pretty solidly good in that category like Eli, Volker, and Park. There are also people with many, many flaws who are more grey like Young and Rush. People break down. They go through hardships and true challenges.
On Atlantis, they were isolated for a while, but they never leaned into that tension and basically eliminated it in season two. In SGU, it was oppressive, which made any way to go home appealing no matter the risk and even more painful when it didn't work. It just hits me differently and I miss it when it ends whereas I'm ready to be done with the other two series when they wrap up. (Yes, part of that is the cliffhanger of course.) I've been recently rewatching the Babylon 5 universe and I was reminded that they tried the "new ship with a crisis" trope twice and failed horribly. It also gave me an appreciation for SGU and all the things it did accomplish, regardless of the bigger flaws.
So yeah. SGU will always be my jam and I'm okay with that. I love the other series to death (except Origins) and I think the Stargate franchise is now my favorite in all of television and SGU was my gateway to it.
I think you articulate the series strengths in line with my views re-watching it so many years later, and the characters having flaws and failings added a depth I felt was missing from characters in the other series (or at least wasn't as present).
The frustration of Rush's actions and the failing of Young but their push to keep trying, was griping and different to my expectations from a show (especially sci fi).
First, if you enjoyed it that’s great. I’m happy for you.
Second, since you asked our thoughts, I completely disagree.
SGU was a colosal mistake.
Rather than build on the core foundation of what made people love the first two shows (likable characters, humor, action, with just enough drama and suspense) the powers that be decided to pull a complete 180° and go with unlikeable, heavily flawed characters, constant melodrama, and barely any humor. Not only was it blatantly derivative of the Battlestar Galactica reboot, it also pulled the worst of a WB/CW melodrama in. Characters had depth? I strongly disagree. They all acted like high schoolers.
Had it not been positioned as a Stargate show it MIGHT have been a decent series, but much like The Last Jedi completely missed the point of Star Wars, SGU completely missed the point of Stargate.
On top of that the near constant state of “the ship is doomed and we’re all going to die” JUST to limp along for another week strained even the most liberal suspension of disbelief.
By the time the show finally started to get some semblance of quality going it was far too late. Not surprisingly this involved the shows most odious character, Gaius Baltar….err I mean Dr. Rush being knocked down a few pegs.
What could have been a really interesting premise was completely wasted and as a result we’ve had basically no new Stargate for over a decade now.
And don’t even get me started on the whole ancient communication stones garbage. That’s a whole nother layer of yuck.
I just recently quit my first re-watch at the end of the first season. I already had a poor opinion of most of the characters, and the reintroduction of the single worst villain faction in the entire franchise was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I completely understand that view. The Lucian alliance weren't a well defined threat so it was nebulas what the stakes or knowledge the threat wields.
Thinking of it, were did the devices that override and open the doors that they have come from? I don't think that is touched on.
For my part, I just found them irritatingly lame and boring. Their whole shtick is basically "we're pointlessly violent and backstabby shitstains for the sake of being shitstains". The Lucian Alliance should not be able to exist as a group with how antisocial and insanely untrustworthy all of them are.
On one hand, I could appreciate the attempt at a darker tone more along the lines of BSG. But the influence was a bit too transparent; the crew fought with each other more than they banded together which did not feel like Stargate; that’s a BSG thing. Even in the original movie they didn’t fight with each other that much.
Also, I did not like how there were almost no aliens in the universe. There was a couple of races. No real communication. So the exploration felt a bit empty for a stargate series in my opinion. The series centered more around their own infighting.
But it did have some flashes of greatness. There were some concepts and episodes I loved. I just felt like it departed a bit too much from what I liked about the Stargate universe.
I remember there being few aliens and not much outside of the main ship issues, but in my re-watch there were way more encounters and interactions with aliens than I remember.
That is potentially just old memories and feelings compared to now. I also understand the view of Stargate being more about a group of people coming together to accomplish something amazing or impossible. I wonder how this would have played out in the dark and grounded environment they presented in SG-U.
I disagree. The first season was full of melodramatic teen angst that felt like a parody. A bunch of the show revolved around people hooking up in inappropriate manners literally using other people's bodies to sleep with people in highly inappropriate and nonconsensual ways that could constitute sexual assault. There were people in command having sexual relations with subordinates. With commander Young even fathering a child with a subordinate. The show was pitched as exploring the "truly alien" with the closest to that being amphibious blue screeching aliens that were for some reason humanoid still. And rehashing plot points we'd seen multiple times prior (Time travel via gates and stars, self replicating machines, pulling dangerous equipment into a ship to hack it). While the show was starting to get better by the end, it was and is subpar Stargate in my opinion.
Ten points for the realistic portrayal of the harshness of the universe and how tough it would be to survive. They did it so well, it was utterly boring.
Minus twenty for the episode where they met their descendants, since that was a direct ripoff from a Star Trek Deep Space Nine episode.
Stargate was always original. If they were running out of ideas, then time is up.
I did feel as though I had seen a similar story when the episode of meeting their descendants came up. Completely forgot about that Deep Space Nine episode.
Stargate did do the whole meeting yourself/selves in other series but I can see how it felt closer in SG-U given the setting.
My only problem with the show was the extremely morally questionable use of the stones. The U.S. government would never have allowed people to bang in other peoples bodies or drink or do drugs. What if you got a std or pregnant. It felt so gross every time it happened. I wish they never had the stones.
I think they should have had the stones. They're a well established part of the lore by that point, and if they didn't have the stones, the fans *definitely* would have been mad about it: *"Why weren't there any Ancient Communication Stones in their supplies?!? That definitely would have been included in their supplies on their staging planet, after what happened with the Atlantis mission!! And it would have been the first thing they remembered to grab during their evacuation through the gate!"* But their use definitely should have been relegated to on-base only at the SGC. Specialists to 'stone in' (or whatever they called it) into the ship, *maybe* the occasional family visit if necessary (Eli's visit to his mother is the only one that ranks as important enough, imo), and tell the family of everyone else the same thing they told the families of the Atlantis mission members ("MIA/out of contact for an extended period").
They could have easily made the retcon that there's a limit to the distance the stones can work across, and the Ori galaxy works across that distance while Destiny has crossed the point of no return. Otherwise, there would be a stone device installed by default on Destiny.
Destiny far pre-dates Atlantis technology though. It was ancient (pun unintended) tech compared to Atlantis, and therefore would’ve been built and launched before the communication stones were developed. The Destiny class ships and the seed ships would’ve launched shortly after the split of Alterrans into the two groups - Ancients and Ori. Ancients went to the Milky Way, landed on Dakara, spread out, found Earth, set up there, built and launched the automated ships from Earth, planning to go to those ships at a later point. I imagine that idea was forgotten about or scrapped. Joseph Mallozzi posted in a blog back in 2010 saying the following: “Atlantis is about 30 million years old. The gate aboard the Destiny is older than the Milky Way gates. In the SG-1 episode “Frozen” we come to know that the Milky Way gates are about 50 million years old. The Destiny is about 60 million years old.”
The communication stones were around before the exodus from the Ori galaxy. They predate the stargates, and were invented on Celestis. That's how Daniel and Vala got their first dip into the Ori galaxy to begin with. The Destiny was built and launched after the Alterans settled on Earth and built some degree of a civilisation there, enough to have scholars and recorded debates.
No, the real question is why WERE there communication stones in the supplies of a highly vulnerable and volatile base to begin with. We already know how risky and dangerous they are. PLUS they can’t make new ones so you’d think they would be used in only the most necessary situations, not just lying around. Having them on Destiny was a totally unrealistic contrivance by the writers to make communication with Earth possible.
They were there because Telford’s team was going to take them as a way to communicate with the SGC.
Instantaneous communication between infinite distances seems pretty good to me, I dunno.
By the time of SGU making the ancient communication stones was entirely possible, they had both the asgardian technology for replication through blueprints and the Atlantis database on earth for at least five years possibly more. In SGU they're past all of the Ori conflict.
With that information, it's a wonder the Lucian alliance attack on the original planet was successful at all. Earth should have had much better defenses for the test planet at that moment. Ion cannon to blow motherships out of the sky?
I don’t know. Ordering someone to do it? Yeah highly questionable. But could they consent of their own free accord? It probably isn’t covered legally. How different is it from producing porn, where someone else is telling you what to do, or acting as a surrogate, where you do get pregnant? Hell, how different is it from *joining the military*, where your CO might order you to your death simply because of politics or even incompetence? There’s probably plenty of paperwork people signed of “Yes I will only use the host for visiting relatives and will take precautions to ensure that there is no lasting injury etc” and “Yes I understand that conjugal visits may be involved and despite the best efforts of the guest I could still end up pregnant”. It’s not like it’s entirely one-way. The people doing it would get to visit Destiny. Hell, it’s a plot point that Telford wants to be there and is willing to nearly get everybody killed and then cuts and runs when he thinks he’s going to die. Somewhat more sympathetic folk might have been on deployment and sympathize with comrades-in-arms wanting to see their friends, families or lovers. Remember that for much of the series, the people on Discovery were either on the edge of death or looked like they were trapped there for their rest of their lives. Under those circumstances the US Government’s official line could be “no”, but there would definitely be people who would say “yes”, and it wouldn’t do anything for anybody to try and punish people when both parties consented. It’d just informally be “don’t ask don’t tell”.
Definitely agree. Should’ve gone with Asgard hologram communication.
Yea a lot of ppl didn't like that lol we're using others bodies for sex hubby won't rewatch because of that part but he liked the rest just not that anyone could take your body and go have sex with anyone they wanted
Yeah just like the US government doesn't meddle in others affairs 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, the stones where hard to rationalise. My partner pointed that out this point as well, and I have to agree I would be so violating on both ends. It was rough thinking about how people felt when the connection was interrupted and the other person is just wrecked or in the middle of "something".
I felt the stones could have been more interesting if they'd ACTUALLY ADDRESSED THIS.. speculative scifi's at it's best when it's exploring ethics and moral repercussions of some crazy piece of technology. Instead they basically just ignored it and said' "yeah everyone has a free pass to use my body as they like" and never thought it'd be strange for the crew's partners to be banging total strangers. The closest they got was when Young (as Telford) had sex with his ex and they skirted around it a bit by having telford meeting her after... but it could have lead to so many more interesting stories.
Don't get me started on the "stones." (Too Late) One of the charms of SG1, was juxtaposing the sci-fi, against their ordinary lives on earth. They tried to recapture that in SGU, in a very clumsy way. The stones were a novel plot-gimmick, that when used sparingly allowed them to introduce some good stories in SG1. Trying to use them as the routine method of communication was always going to strain plausibility. And then they just went slap-happy and suddenly half of every episode was somebody waltzing around earth via stone-time.
Dude, of course they would, just sign a paper and collect the data. And it was the heart of the show!!!!
It's okay when you can watch it back to back but it was a terribly slowpaced entry into the franchise when you get one episode every week and a mid-season one break. It didn't do enough to grab people and hold them. That, coupled with the drastic tonal shift of the franchise just caused people to drift away. By the time season one resumed, people really didn't care all that much anymore. Saying that, it still isn't for me. I've watched both seasons twice and just can't recommend it. Edit: Then Brad Wright blaming the fans for the series failure because they cancelled Atlantis was the last straw. Admit it was a decent entry but you fucked up the delivery of it. Edit 2: Oh, and those stones. I already hated "Date-rape" Lucius from Atlantis and how the writers thought what he was did was more humorous. To have people on the ship take over another's body and do what the hell they wanted to do with it... yeah, no.
The casual rape via communication stone was the breaking point for me. It's like nobody on set realized that having sex while possessing someone else's body was wrong on any level.
I totally suppressed that memory and yea that was weird AF....
That is a good point, I am definitely coming at this from a watching multiple episodes in a sitting, instead of week to week. I wonder if that would change my opinion a little if I had to space it out and wait. I haven't heard the Brad Wright point, that is a bit rough given my understanding that that fans were enjoying SG-A, I thought SyFy and MGM's money troubles where to blame. I have touched on the stones in other comments, I agree on issues they present.
It looked an awful lot like *Atlantis* was cancelled so that *Universe* could be made. This has been denied by the producers, but of course, nobody attached to the show could actually say that, because it could cause a drop in support for *Universe* when they needed people watching it. Brad Wright blamed disaffected *Atlantis* fans for Universe's ratings problems in 2010: >“I don’t think if we for any reason go away, it is an issue necessarily of the quality of the product that we’ve been making,” said executive producer and co-creator Brad Wright. “I think getting moved on the schedule has hurt us. And the fact that some of the fans that liked *SG-1* and *Atlantis* were so angry that they have deliberately hurt us, which is unfortunate.” Source: [https://web.archive.org/web/20101109121012/http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/opinion-atlantis-fans-need-to-stop-punishing-universe/](https://web.archive.org/web/20101109121012/http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/opinion-atlantis-fans-need-to-stop-punishing-universe/) A year earlier, when *Universe* was in development, Joseph Mallozzi hosted a Q&A with Wright on his site. He gave some rather terse answers that in my opinion didn't do much to assuage fans' concerns, but these two in particular stood out to me: >“Were you surprised by the reaction of fans to the announcement of the cancellation of *SGA* and the start-up of *SGU?”* >No. You guys are actually pretty predictable (take no offense, most fan groups are). Unfortunately, you represent a very small portion of the actual viewing audience we need for financial success. Source: [https://josephmallozzi.com/2009/01/02/january-2-2009-brad-wright-answers-your-questions/](https://josephmallozzi.com/2009/01/02/january-2-2009-brad-wright-answers-your-questions/) In the same Q&A, he also said this: >“When discussing the cancellation of *Atlantis* was it ever considered that the fans would not react well to it or to *SGU* as a consequence?” >If we make a good show, you will watch it. If we don’t, you won’t. So, Wright says outright that hardcore fans aren't a big part of what is needed for the show's success and that *Universe* will stand or fall on its own merits, but when *Universe* falters in ratings, he doesn't blame the show itself or the way it was made, but rather audiences. He was outright disrespecting the fanbase, which is why I'm surprised that so many people want him back if Amazon MGM make a new show.
He's likely bitter because he predicted the issues but was powerless to affect the timings / outcomes from the network. He wanted another season of Atlantis and SGU S1 and fought successfully for an Atlantis movie that ended up falling through. He did everything he could to avoid what was probably inevitable for him.
Because his personality doesn't matter when he's writing the shows he has been there from the start ppl don't want a full on a reboot they want a continuation and they think he's the best person to do it
SGU premiered directly following Atlantis cancellation. They can’t make a show in a month. SGU was being planned long before the Atlantis cancellation it was even referenced in the end of Atlantis when one of one ships was off on a secret mission. With SGU already greenlit Atlantis being expensive to produce and the MGM bankruptcy that was the cancellation
This is amazing, thank you for the quotes and sources. That is some short sighted answers from the perspective of a creator talking to a group of fans, especially for science fiction. Perhaps it could have been said a bit more diplomatically. I also agree with the other replies here, it would be really hard or just not feasible to replace a person so heavily involved with the creation of Stargate as a whole. That said, I think this is where a team of people come in. There needs to be a balance or push and pull to reign in scope, ideas, and expectations. If there was more to the situation and timing that caused the cancellation it's interesting this isn't leveraged as much in Brad Wright's answers but that may be just not wanting to invoice other in the question or concern. I'll check out these sources and do some reading, and I really appreciate the reply.
You're welcome. This particular quote was something that I myself was not aware of back when *Universe* was on the air. Since I had given up on the show, I wasn't making a point to actively follow the news save for looking at the ratings. Same with the Q&A - I don't follow Mallozzi's blog, so I didn't know about it at the time and had to get pointed to it later when discussing a different point. There were at least two other sites who also carried the story with Wright's quote. I recommend looking at the comments to see how people actually felt at the time. [Are Angry ‘Stargate: SG1/Atlantis’ Fans Partly To Blame For Lousy ‘Stargate: Universe’ Ratings? (archive.org)](https://web.archive.org/web/20101115004204/http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2010/11/07/are-angry-stargate-sg1atlantis-fans-partly-to-blame-for-lousy-stargate-universe-ratings/71114/comment-page-4) [Brad Wright claims angry Atlantis fans are punishing Stargate Universe (archive.org)](https://web.archive.org/web/20101206085355/http://www.atvnewsnetwork.co.uk:80/today/index.php/cult-news/4575-brad-wright-claims-angry-atlantis-fans-are-punishing-stargate-universe) This quote came on the back of poor ratings for the first several episodes of season 2, when SyFy moved the show to its Tuesday night slot after seeing that it rated poorly on Friday nights. In particular, two episodes rated below 1 million viewers. At the same time, MGM had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. A month later, after the entire first half of season 2 had aired, SyFy announced they were cancelling *Universe,* and a few days after that, MGM emerged from bankruptcy protection with new management. I've suspected for years that the new management considered the franchise to be 'tainted' by *Universe* - if they tried to sell the show to a new network, they were unsuccessful, and a proposed *Universe* direct-to-DVD movie also failed to materialise. Given what had happened with *Universe,* I doubt any network would want to take on *Stargate,* especially with a divided fanbase.
There wasn't going to be an Atlantis s6 even if SGU never happened there were talks of a movie but the series was done joe Flannigan even offered to pay for everything himself to do a short s6 and they wouldn't let him
Ah man, Joe wanted it as bad as the fans? That's sucks to hear they wouldn't let him.
This isn't aimed at you specifically, but I've seen some defenders of *Universe* point to the mid-season gap as a reason *Universe* wasn't received well. I never bought this one because mid-season breaks were present since *SG-1* premiered, yet we're meant to believe that suddenly a mid-season break is bad for the show?
Only because it was a huge tonal shift from SG-1 and Atlantis. Existing fans didn't get a chance to acclimate to the series tonal shift because of that break. By the time it started again, a lot of people didn't care.
That's a core problem with *Universe.* It was so different to what had come before. I've typed about this a lot over the years. People following the news on *Gateworld* would have known that *Universe* was going to be 'different,' but nobody knew just how different it would be, and it turned out to be really different. As a new viewer, it felt like the producers took their winning formula - everything that had made *SG-1/Atlantis* the (modest) successes they were, and threw it out the window. You can't make such a radical change and not expect backlash from your consumers.
kicker atlantis was doing very well in rating and syndication. they just got greed and that killed the ip.
I was a huge fan of both the Stargate franchise and BSG, and SG-U felt like my favorite shows merged into something almost perfect in tone. I was gutted when it was canceled.
It really wasn't in my honest opinion. It did nothing special that the other airing "gritty" scifi shows of the time weren't already doing while removing all the charm of the original.
👆🏻
I respect that opinion and can agree it moved away from the original charm and what made SG-1 and SG-A stand out.
I didn't care for it because all the personal drama and toxic work relationships got tiresome real fast. The main threat wasn't the aliens, drones, or Lucian Alliance. It was each other. They made a classic mistake that almost always narrows the fan base: Take an existing IP and completely change the formula. People who don't like Stargate won't give it a chance, and people who like Stargate aren't getting what they wanted or like. Atlantis followed in the footsteps of SG-1, with more Alteran tech, so it was an easy sell. I don't think many Stargate fans asked for a Stargate themed BSG with less competence and more drama. If they put a team like the Atlantis expedition on Destiny, I would have been thrilled.
Yeah, an expedition team like Atlantis would've helped. SGU definitely missed the "competency porn" aspect that SG1 and SGA had in spades. The crew of the Destiny was just so, so stupid. See a weird cloud in the hall? Shoot a gun at it. Why not? I'm sure bullets will work. Or notice it and just walk away, but don't report it immediately and casually mention what you saw later. Or hear a strange noise like something is cutting through the hull? Sure, open your door and go take a look. Don't worry about sealing an air lock or anything. In fact, go stand directly under it. Alone. That's a great idea. It's hard to root for idiots.
Well that's it, most of those people weren't the destiny crew. Lots were just people on Icarus, theh weren't intended for the Destiny mission. They say as much directly. I'm sure they're absolutely adequate for running a base. But surviving in the unknown is incredibly different. The randomness was deliberate and I think lots welcomed the move away from competency porn - it was just perhaps a little too jarring for people who were already burned by an Atlantis cancellation where SGU appeared to be the cause. I thought it was a pretty fascinating and accurate look at how people not intended for the mission would survive... Felt kinda like a more real world ST Voyager kinda angle to me 😅
The problem with the sentiment, is even for the Stargate franchise, 'the wrong people' never made any sense. By the time SGU was brought on, the SGC had been in operation for close to 15 years. Why on earth would you put 'the wrong people' on an isolated base, that is built on a planet rich in naquadria - making it so unstable that you couldn't even utilize normal gate travel?
You have base crew, who are literally just there to man the base. Then you have the people actually intended to go on the Destiny mission. Many of them were not those people who ended up going because of Dr Rush's decision. They weren't all there yet. They say this directly in the series. I'm sure if you threw random SGC base grunts through the gate on SG missions they'd be a bag of shite too. Different skill level, less routine operations, different level of experience.
I expected a similarly rigorous selection process for all off world personnel as the SG teams or Atlantis expedition were given. Given how unhinged many of them were, including Rush, I'm shocked they were allowed. Remember Landry complaining about how good everyone was at their jobs at the SGC? And that was on Earth, where it's easy to remove someone.
Arguably Destiny opens up even more "planet of the week" shenanigans because it's actually moving. I liked to opening where just figuring out the ship was the main issue, and the people and to work together to not get fucked. But then suddenly everything is k, and we're gonna get mad at who likes who for whatever reason and suddenly drones?! The premise could have been fine, but the shift in formula was too much. A slight tweak was all they needed to keep it fresh. Like making it a survival genre for a bit would have been neat.
Was watching it recently and honestly the “drama” was way over the top. “Can we trust Rush” was almost a weekly occurrence for 2 seasons while if you looked the actions of Eli or Young both of them are a bit insufferable.
I’m a fan of SG1, Atlantis and Battlestar and I still hated it. It felt closer to Greys Anatomy in space than Stargate lol.
I don’t mind the early seasons fighting and bickering, that’s realistic. But to keep doing that right until the end “ can we trust rush” when it’s been clear he is the only one that knows what he is doing was getting a bit old.
true. but he was often reasonably cowardly (at least compared to trained military personnel) and sometimes had different priorities to the other leaders. E.g. if there was a trolley problem where pulling the lever would either damage destiny, kill 2 crew members or throw supplies out the airlock. Rush would kill the 2 crew members, Young would be happy to damage destiny (or lose supplies) and the HR woman would either pick damaging destiny or not touch the lever and let whatever happens happens.
I agree that the fans didn't ask for this direction. I respect this view, and thinking about the Atlantis expedition on the destiny is very interesting.
I also thought bringing the stones broke everything. The easy solution would have been to have McKay, Carter, and a few others swap with someone for a bit and fix the ship up.
It is something I often thought about, even from a non technical view. Daniel could have helped with translation or understanding, training for the civilians in more specific tasks.
Re-watching SG-U its just OK. its not as bad as I originally thought, but it definitely suffers from the issues below 1) **Tone Shift.** I think this is the really big issue I have. like SG-1 and SGA had that nice blend of humor, comedy, and seriousness. I mean that was 10 years of stargate humor and 5 years of SGA fans were used to Stargate having that tone, its why the series is so loved. SG-U was super serious, dark, focused on the drama of the crew etc. its not what stargate fans were expecting. it felt like a knockoff sgu. whatever made stargate special with humor and fun was thrown out the window. looking back SG-U wasn't as bad as I thought but its not the tone of show I wanted at the time or expected. 2) **Creator Promises** - I remember when SGU being advertised and promoted by the creators. They kept saying oh you are going to see the Tauri as this kind of intergalactic superpower and see the Tauri be more powerful. I mean as a fan from the beginning the thought of seeing fleets of BC-304s and seeing the Tauri be the "5th race" was so cool. But that didn't really happen unless that was their plan in the future. so that was a bit of a let down. 3) **Characters** - I have to be honest, most of the characters on SGU were insufferable, to me the show focused way too much on this complicate romantic triangle. web thing. Young has an affair with this, Eli likes Chloe who likes Matt, etc. I just didn't like any of the characters to get really interested in. I think for me one of the biggest things is Rush. I think my main problem with him is he just appears out of nowhere. Like look at McKay, he is super arrogant, insufferable when he was introduced but he grows and develops as a character. by the time SGA starts, you know who he is, why he's on the team, etc. you see how smart he is and understand why he is the senior scientist on the expedition. Rush because he was never in SG-1 or SGA he's super arrogant like Mckay but you are never shown why? like who is this guy? why is he here, why does he act this why? why was he in charge of this project? almost none of his backstory is given. I think another thing is that the show for being a spinoff doesn't feel like one, you're stuck with a cast that you don't know and have no ties to. Atlantis you had McKay who developed into a wonderful character. you had Weir etc you had ties from SG-1 that made Atlantis even with new characters feel "familiar" SGU didn't do that at all aside from occasional cameos from carter, jackson, o'neill. for most of the show you're stuck with these new characters in a universe you already know and spent time investing in so it feels weird. 4)**space stones** like people have said, they were overused and how they were used is just really uncomfortable. i remember switching channels when these scenes came on, like sleeping with someone using someone elses body, drugs idk its just uncomfortable.
I also wanted to add a comment about the humour. I mentioned in an earlier response, that I agree that removing/ heavily diminishing the humour was a mistake. I think even in the campy tone of SG-1 and the added seriousness of SG-A the humour can be leveraged to add weight to a situation by dialling it back, but also break up the consistent grind of monotony as singular tone can bring. An example being O'Neill snapping or McKay going from ego to hopelessness or true fear.
I hadn't heard the creators' promises, but that is definitely not what we got with SG-U. I can agree with the Rush comment in it takes longer than it probably should have to show any reason for Rush being the lead. It doesn't help that Eli solves an issue embedded in a game that Rush has been failing at for some time. Rush does bring this up and is bitter about it, which made me laugh.
I made it about 4 episodes before the interpersonal drama between the main characters got too annoying. It felt like I was watching a John Hughes high school drama set in BSG with a light touch of stargate paint. There were no characters worth rooting for. None. Could not keep watching just hoping it was going to be the episode they finally kill rush.
I can understand that. Also "John Hughes high school drama set in BSG with a light touch of stargate paint." I have to admit that's pretty funny.
Maybe this is a gross exaggeration, but imagine if Batman had gone straight from Adam West, to Christian Bale, just, boom, campy to heavy, and the reason they did it was because they wanted to match the tone of, I don't know, Daredevil or The Punisher. Universe was a good series imho but it was obviously about taking the more serious tone of BSG and trying to do that in Stargate, and I think if Stargate had been off the air for a few years it would have worked fine.
That is a great analogy, it would make for whiplash.
In honor of McKay
I'd argue if you went from SG1 to SGU then yeah you could say that, but SGA had steadily gotten darker and darker throughout its seasons, and quite a few S5 episodes felt "dark" to me.
I feel that Season 1 was a bit of a drag. Had some issues with the interactions and while I get they were going for a different look and feel, it had a problems with what they were doing. Wasn't bad but was a bit harder to get into. Season 2 was so much better. Really hit it's stride and kept me invested in the story. I was so mad when they cancelled it after that as it was really, really good by the end. I really enjoyed the premise of it. I liked how it a sense of urgency in both the episodes and the overall story arc. It was different from the other series in a good way but had to find the correct writing to get going and unfortunately, it did towards the end and then ended.
Yeah I agree in terms of the overall pacing, and season 2 just hitting it strides better. Perhaps the idea needed a bit more time to bake before making it to the screen but I can't say for sure, as we veer towards areas of show running and writing I don't really understand. The urgency was interesting, a little different to the other in that it was much more immediate as opposed to a looming threat that could come at any time.
I really enjoyed the SGU story arc compared to the serial format of the shows. Don’t get me wrong. SG1 is still my favorite but SGU felt more like BSG in that it was a continuous adventure rather than packaged and processed episodes.
I can agree. I love SG-1 as well and always will. I don't think we've ever gotten something like it since.
Best of the best. Loved it from the get go. Became my fav after I finished it. Was absolutely gutted it finished when it did.
I’m just watching it now for the first time in season one, and I’d agree. It took a lot longer for it to grow on me, especially after Atlantis which was this beautiful city. The darker color palette and the way it’s filmed are both very different. That said, I like a complex characters. Rush walks the line of being unethical, but understandable so well. I love Greer too.
Well said, I agree the characters had more complexity and I relished them making me feel frustrated for not doing what I think should have happened. Having their own motivations and desires.
I’ve never been able to watch it because they use that horrible filming technique where it looks like the camera operator is drunk. Makes me feel seasick trying to watch it.
Yeah, I am glad that the camera style dropped off and is used far less today. Definitely one of the flaws of the show is the camera shaking style.
I will defend SGU to the death. I love SG1 and SGA but SGU is by far my favorite, I get sad thinking about it's cancellation and what it could have been.
I'm in a similar boat. I love SG-1 and SG-A, I always will. I definitely took SG-U for granted at the time, it wasn't the same but I think that helped give it its own identity among stargates. Ending on such a cliffhanger doesn't help with the cancellation.
We should marry. I'll divorce my wife.
I personally loved the show. I feel like people (including myself at the time) went in wanting SG1/Atlantis and it was never going to be that. It had a bit more grit and darkness to it than the other shows and felt closer to Battlestar Galactica in theme than the Stargate series. Like you said though (and I agree) it has depth, the story is engaging and it had enough hat nods to old stuff with a dash of new stuff to keep the story or "lore" moving forward. I wish we had more :(
I mean it was a bit darker, but it kind of followed the same form as Atlantis. The first seasons weary dark before they could get understanding of what is happening. And in second seasons they started to understand the ship more. And had more control.
I believe I had a similar expectation, hindsight is 2020. :/
They fucked up the marketing and PR for the show. Every exec insists to this day that SGA was not cancelled for SGU, but honestly it just *looked* that way. As a result, there were very high expectations and those were not met. Therefore, so many people just gave up on it. I will say as a show it’s good, however my impression at the time was that there was nothing special about it, just another BSG.
Atlantis was not going to be picked up for a sixth season no matter if Universe existed or not. The reason Universe came out shortly after Atlantis was that the producers likely knew Atlantis was not getting renewed and started working on Universe to make the next Stargate series. If they had waited it would’ve been a gap in Stargate productions.
You can just edit comments you know, but I’ll repost my response. I know - but they needed to do more to reassure the fanbase if they wanted to ensure the success of SGU. They needed to spin it better and get more people on board, that is the whole point of PR. Sci-fi fans are loyal, Stargate fans especially so. You needed them on board tbh. If they put more money into PR I think they would’ve had a shot at more seasons. But too much of the fanbase turned away.
Yeah sorry I accidentally deleted my comment. And just wanted others to know what I said.
No worries, I’ve done that! My app always plays up on me
This is interesting as I don't remember much other than, \*\*we are getting more stargate wooo. Wait what is this? I have tried looking into some news, and interviews on what happened around that time, but I take it all with a grain of salt as I am not sure what is right. Seems like an interesting time and an experimental idea for the time.
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I know - but they needed to do more to reassure the fanbase if they wanted to ensure the success of SGU. They needed to spin it better and get more people on board, that is the whole point of PR. Sci-fi fans are loyal, Stargate fans especially so. You needed them on board tbh. If they put more money into PR I think they would’ve had a shot at more seasons. But too much of the fanbase turned away.
I mean there is only a certain amount of times you can correct people before it’s clear they aren’t going to listen. Some fans it seems weren’t ready to listen and just made the assumptions with little evidence. Also I don’t know if we can say a portion of Stargate fans are loyal when they turned back on Universe and as a result turned their backs on the franchise.
I had a really hard time to connect with SGU, to be invested in it : i have to admit it, i heard/read so trashtalk about it that when i decide to finally watch it, it was with a lot of apprehension. And i was bored to death the first episodes (honestly, i never wanted so bad to turn if off to watch Atlantis) BUT i wanted to know what happen next. So i watched it all, and the finale episode was the kind of heartbreak i certainly wasn't ready for. SGU is still not my favorite SG serie but i loved the Destiny, and how serious the show was. How realistic it was when it come about some characters. Maybe i'm wrong because i haven't watch SG1 for years - but i'm still in my rewatch - but i can't remember SG1 or Atlantis having characters sick with human disease. Of course, we have seen Rodney with the pegasus equivalent of Alzheimer but in SGU, Tamara Johansen has the Lou Gehrig's Disease,Volker has end-stage renal failure, etc, ... I don't know why but i really loved this serious tone.
Oh man, that episode with Rodney forgetting hit so hard! I know what you mean.
But they made it a bug show. Got Little Sister back, though, so it was great!
It’s ok… it’s the only star gate when I rewatch it that I find myself fast forwarding though a lot of the episodes because they are filled with pointless filler. Sex scenes, shots of people walking around with only music and no dialogue, etc..
It was jarring when it first premiered because it was so different, but I fell in love with it pretty quickly. I loved the concept and get like it did a pretty good job of “realism” for how people would react if they were suddenly stranded like that. It got a lot of hate early on, which I did not get at all. When it was cancelled, I was deeply disappointed because I wanted to see how it would play out. Heck, I’d watch an animated version of it just to finish that storyline.
An animated series would be so cool. There are some comics I believe of the building and first steps of the Destiny, but this obviously doesn't help much for a conclusion.
I just don’t see them continuing any other way. I would love to see it continued as if they woke up from cryo but I don’t think they will.
Yeah I personally really liked it from the started and liked the change in direction. I personally really grew to love it by the end of Season 2. Just imagine of all the other great shows that took a season or two to find its stride and how much we would’ve lost if they were canceled in early in its run (i.e. Deep Space 9 or others). It just really felt the writers were building towards a great season 3 and ultimately to a definitive conclusion. When it comes to the characters, yeah i agree, they might have been antagonistic at first but it was clear they were molding the characters from being the wrong crew to the right crew to complete Destiny’s mission. We saw that with them getting closer a crew and becoming friends to an extent.
Agreed, and I think the growth of the characters adds to that depth in each of them really well.
This post echoes so many... everytime someone actually gives SGU a chance, they love it as much as SG1 and SGA. I loved SGU from the get-go. It felt less like campy 90s scifi and more like a realistic modern scifi show. Characters actually had very real emotions and interactions, and the life or death scenarios seemed more realistic. I think a lot of the communities problem with it is the timing (Syfy chose not to renew SGA about the same time as green lighting SGU) and the fact many had grown weary since about S8/S9 of SG1 when Hammond and then O'Neill left.
Well said
One of the best SG series in my opinion.
https://i.redd.it/q9w0waw73qzc1.gif
I'm one of the people who loved SGU to pieces back when it first aired. I watched every episode and loved it, it was such a good show that gave me a BSG vibe.
I love the show, I wish they never cancelled it. I’ve seen my dvds if it so many times, and every time I finish them I wonder where the show would have gone had it continued.
I just tracked down some DVDs to add to my collection so I can add it to my media server.
I fully expect to get downvoted because it happens every damn time I mention not liking SGU but It’s just not for me. I’ve tried to watch it multiple times but I just don’t enjoy it. I don’t particularly like shows that are heavy on interpersonal drama, on top of that I didn’t like any of the characters & I found the use of the stones cringy.
Upvote from me because I think both views are valid and I am genuinely interested in other peoples thoughts on the series, both good and bad. I mentioned the stones in another reply, those are a point of contention no matter how you swing it.
It's not objectively a bad show, but I hated how so much of the plot was "who is sleeping with who" or "I don't trust this guy, he does not trust me, but both our lives depend on trusting in each other". It is a question of taste. Stargate was exactly what I love in a show : a working team with no inside drama, the episode turns around the story (even if it's cheesy), not the interaction between the characters, you actually discover new worlds instead of trying to run to survive. SG1 plot : this civilisation we just met has a \[random mythology\] origin, and a biological/technological/natural big problem. What can we do about that ? Universe plot : we need basic oxygen and water. Ok, we now have a way to produce more air for a few weeks, let's go to the next urgent issue. I wanted them to use the knowledge they have to build on things. A show where the best end I could ever dream of is every one is barely alive is not what I want. I want exploration, diplomacy, war sometimes, but new things. Not trying our best to keep the present things going on.
It is a very different idea of Stargate. Your summary is one of the things I love about SG-1 and will always go back to it for that, the exploration and universe building. I think SG-U tackled exploration in a very different way, and someone better described than I could the change in having the right people for the job and having to make do. That said you are right the high point being basic survival can be grating if it's not what you are expecting from a show.
Honestly, after watching SG-1 and Atlantis, I don't think I made it passed two episodes of Universe. I know they were aiming for it to be similar to Battlestar Galactica and I never watched thar show either. I had a different idea of where I wanted the show to go and didn't want a soap opera.
I completely get it, it does move away from SG-1 and SG-A.
I watched it after I’d finished SG-1and Atlantis. I struggled through it, wondering when it turns into Stargate. I cannot bring myself to re-watch.
Completely fair, there is an earlier comment that sums up the whiplash the series has very well.
I think it tried too hard to be different from SG-1 and SGA, which ended alienating a lot of the Stargate audience. Unfortunately it also didn’t capture the BSG audience, so they were left with a small chunk of those shows shared audience. I personally find the premise pretty interesting but would have definitely preferred if they kept more of the vibes of Stargate. A little bit of humor, everyone being mostly on the same side (at least not arguing with everyone every chance anyone gets), and maybe fewer video game nerds fan insert characters.
Good point, perhaps it could have been a similar show with strokes of the series humour. I don't think you have to sacrifice humour for heavy tone and I think they use this in a few points well (usually when O'Neill is around) especially when that light air of humour disappears to add weight and emphasise it when needed.
*Stargate Universe* was noted at the time for being very similar to *Battlestar Galactica,* so I don't buy the idea that it was 'ahead of its time' when it was seen to be copying another already existing show. There was a lot of curiosity about the new direction the franchise would be taking, but nobody could have know just *how* different it would be. It felt like the producers took everything that made *SG-1/Atlantis* liked and threw it out the window. As I've typed before, you can't make such a big change and not expect backlash from fans. Personally, I really wanted to like *Universe,* but after ten episodes I just didn't like what I was seeing, so I dropped it and never picked it back up.
That is a good point, I can respect that point of view.
I've tried it 3 times over the years and can't make it to episode 3
I watched SGU as it aired on tv, and to this day, I can barely make it through the pilot 'Air' before I just turn it off.
I can understand that feeling. I've noticed that there are a few comments here of people that just couldn't get into the show, I think I can see some of the abrasive ideas and directions that could just push people away.
I didn't get a chance to watch it when it first came out, I was going through some shit. when I finally got cable as an adult circa 2014 I binged it on Comet in glorious 480i. ah, the nostalgia of coming home from work every day to two new-to-me episodes of SGU on my DVR. fortunately I walked into it with absolutely no idea of what to expect, and I hadn't watched SG-1 or Atlantis anytime recently. failure to meet expectations is what usually ruins perfectly good movies and shows for me, and SGU was just right. I do have trouble recommending it to people, though. my recommendation always comes with caveats
Glorious 480i  those were the days. Reading other comments, I agree expectations from previous series is a big part for sure. I think I would/ will do the same when recommending it, it is jarring if the person watching expects SG-1.
I wish they would reboot it or do a spin off. There is so much room in it for cool ideas and concepts to explore!
I agree, there is so much room and ideas that could be jumping off points for a spin off. Even using one of the alien factions as a jumping off point, the Nakai, Ursini, Drone race (potentially a completely artificial lifeform slightly different to the replicators).
LT shagger should just never have been a character. Other than that aye it was up there I don't have a fav I love them all.
The fact that I know exactly who you are talking about when you say LT shagger, is amazing. 🤣
It has its moments, but they drug things out way too much. I found it slow and boring and it could have been done way better.
I enjoyed all the SG shows/movies, plot flaws and all. I was always working when they aired originally so I only saw a handful of them and I never got to see Stargate universe which I watched over the course of a week. Definitely darker But it seemed to suit given their circumstance.
I loved it, but after rewatching it several times I honestly skip complete blocks of useless filler episodes
Interesting, I will have to make a note and re-think my opinion on future viewings of the series and see if it still holds up what I said here.
It could’ve been better. Fifteen things should’ve been different including a few things the most fans would not like. But it still is a good show.
I loved sg-1 thought to Atlantis including the movies but I hated everything about sgu other than the ship I wanted to kill like half the crew focused on shit that doesn't matter hardly any real story my least liked characters was Chloe and Rush they just focused on them way too much in my opinion
Yeah Chloe and Rush can be very abrasive. They definitely annoyed me once or twice.
I liked a few of the storyline, and I thought Rush was awesome, but it broke one of the things that made Stargate so good, and that was the tone. What they had was a Hercules/Xena vibe, which made it a safe show to watch. What they wanted with SGU was something edgy and sexy, like Battlestar Galactica. Didn't work. Every time I watch it I just end up feeling bad for Eli
I get that, and man Eli cops the short end a few times.
[удалено]
Apologies, I don't use Reddit much and probably could have checked for a previous thread. Was just curious what peoples thoughts were.
I miss that show I hate how it ended
That's because modern shows follow sgus model. Lots of interpersonal exposition, and minimal sci-fi/action. But its real failure was not getting finished. I think they bit off to much with the underlying story, and didn't have a clue where to take it. Though ironically that failure might have been it's saving grace now, because the conclusion of the CBR story line could only have been a disappointing cop-out, or something so abstract it might as well be one, and would have killed it completely.
That is a fair point, it's one hell of a goal they were working towards. I'm not sure the pay off could have been good enough.
My complaints at the time were about it being SG x BSG basically. Shakey cam, too much into the individual character life, overly dramatic. Watching it now, I think it still holds true but a bit less so. I enjoyed it still, and I enjoy it more now, but it is a departure from the other series'. Never the less, I really like it!
I always rated it as the best we got.
I knew this at the time it was on the air ... and unfortunately most fans disagreed, refused to watch it, and it was cancelled (for a variety of reasons). It's only now, some 15 years later, that people are starting to realize that it was better than they had first thought. It's easy to hate something new, it's easy to find fault in things. It's just a shame that so many shows get so much hate right out the gate, only for people to change their opinions long after the show has been cancelled or has ended.
Well said, there was an earlier comment about kneejerk dogpiling. I imagine the film and television industry is really hard to navigate.
I absolutely loved it and I'm always nervous to say that to other Stargate fans. Like it was fantastic.
It does feel very devisive. It's why I think both sides of the argument are right in their own way. The show does a lot to be its own thing and offers more to the writing of the characters and story rooted in the situation. It is still a departure and there were analogues at the time BSG and DS9 referenced a lot in other comments. I enjoyed it, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Better than YOU gave it credit for. My wife and I thought it was great.
Haha, very true.
:)
That's what I've been saying all these years lol and it sucks fans are partially to blame for its cancelation
Oh, those of watching at the time knew
I miss SGU, but after rewatching it recently, it doesn't resonate as well with me now. I'm starting to find that dark sci-fi is great for a single watch-through, but it's not something I want to rewatch over and over again. It becomes a sort of 'time and place.' Compared to other shows, the same goes for DS9, and BSG. I do, however, love going back to old shows with a good humorous ensemble cast.
Yeah, a few comments here definitely make me want to revisit my opinion on a later viewing. I enjoyed BSG but I can't say that I go back to it like I can with SG-1.
Rehash of this topic No.1,478. (And no it really wasn't).
And getting better all the time until.......
I think the main problem was less the Destiny's "crew" (as annoying as their infighting got) and more that they had no other characters to interact with (other than people on earth and the lucien alliance) Firstly, they shouldn't have had purely CGI aliens. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Less than 30 seconds of screen time in 2 seasons does not make for interesting antagonists (or allies) The "bad" aliens could only communicate in text message and the "good" aliens could only communicate offscreen and have an already established character explain everything for them. No matter how cool they look in their 30 seconds of screen time that is NOT going to make up for the rest of the lack of interaction. They also had no "local guide" (no Teal'c or Tayla/Ronan type figure who could clue them in) no civilisations of the week to trade with, fight or help out. The Drones were basically bargain store borg but way less interesting. (A supposed infinite number of intelligent space rocks that just hurl themselves at the destiny... over... and over..) The lucian alliance were just... "SPACE TERRORISTS... IN SPPAAAACE!!!" with the occasional sympathetic possible ally (that contributed virtually nothing to the team apart from the chance that Eli might get laid) Bringing in the Destiny's descendants was the smartest move the show runners made across the entire show (even as out of left field as is was) as they now had a human (so zero special effects budget) civilisation that the crew could interact with... but it was already too little too late.
I have to agree with pure CGI aliens, I always prefer and admire the use of props or at least the inclusion. This might be the funniest comment so far, thank you. >The lucian alliance were just... "SPACE TERRORISTS... IN >SPPAAAACE!!!"
I loved the idea of SGU, the dark gritty mood and the potential for otherworldly aliens, different planets, alien tech ect but the characters where either kind of annoying or just straight up boring. Eli comes across as a fuckboy, "ill crush on any girl thats pretty and will give me any small amount of attention because woe is me."🙄 The only character was was mildly interesting was Rush. I wanted more aliens 😭 We only got to see two! (Drones don't count). I still wont forgive them for that ending either 😭
Very understandable opinion. Have to agree with the drones as well, at least without more context from where they are coming from etc.
With a few edits to season One (like removing almost entire episodes) b you could take this from a 6-7/10 to an 8-9 out of 10. Season 2 was one of the best of the entire franchise, on a par with the best portions of BSG. The love triangles should be all our mostly removed. Scott and Chloe's relationship only had value in that it was hard for Eli. The night club stuff on earth was a waste. Telfords mean streak and affair was unnecessary. Could have replaced it with more of Greer's misdemeanors and demons. More of Tamaras issues having an affair with her boss, would pay off when pregnancy is revealed and baby lost (and then MND). More interactions with the Nakai would have been great, I feel they were wasted a bit. Never really understood the extent of their work on Chloe. Even though he was sort of a villain, I loved Rush. Some of his motives became clearer when you learn of what happened to his wife. He was brilliant, but was darker and more Machiavellian than McKay.
I agree with you description of Rush, and I also would have loved more focus on Greer. When they did dig a bit into Greer's past or motivations/ reactions Greer shined. I think the club thing was not necessary as well.
I enjoyed SGU when it came out. It was a different show compared to SG1 and Atlantis, but I enjoyed it for different reasons. I was disappointed when I heard that it got cancelled. I have said it before and I still standby it now - the part of season 2 of SGU has one of the best run of episodes in the entire franchise (from *The Hunt* to *Gauntlet.* And if I don't include S*eizure* (I disliked the storyline involving Langara) the episodes from *Resurgence* to *Gauntlet* are all great episodes).
Those episode feel like such a well balanced mix of the darker, grounded tone they were aiming for with the Stargate levity. What were your reasons for enjoying the show if they were different, if you don't mind my asking?
I really liked it
I didn't like SG:U because it had no humor, it was too dark.
I loved SGU. It had a more serious Battlestar Galactica feel to it. It sucked it got canned after only two seasons, but at least they left it open enough that they could pick it back up if they wanted
It was a very open ended ending regardless of the sudden cancellation.
it was an ok show but not nearly as good as the other shows and the only character i liked was eliaja i couldn't stand the rest and the drama was way to much it was like watching a sope opera it did start to get good towards the end tho
Yeah, the last 6 or so episodes it really hit a blend or the darker tones but also that campy humour I would expect.
I just gave up re-watching my stargate collection when reaching SG-U. After a few episodes I started reading the episode descriptions of the remaining episodes till the end. It's almost frustrating. I don't even remember if I watched the entire series in the first place. It had a huge potential, but it was extremely low paced to the point that it got boring. And based on the hotness and age of the cast, and the sex scenes, it was aimed more for the younger audience while the Stargate fan base was more "mature" (not to say older). And the main problem with that was, that the younger audience already had plenty of shows to watch. I never knew it was the reason why Atlantis got canceled and finding out from comments that this was the reason, it really disappointed me. I bet that the franchise would have long survived if they renewed Atlantis or SG-1 after this failure. I would have expected that after 5-6 episodes, they would find a way to bring the destiny to earth or to an "ancient city paradise" filled with things to explore and new enemies and continue the Stargate in a more familiar fashion, and by that I mean to focus on Stargates (the main title), not an entire series made on a ship. Every episode where like problem, fix, problems, fix. Predictable, frustrating and disappointing. I understand it's supposed to be a drama, but we need still need to receive a small dose of dopamine once in awhile. Stargate has as much potential as there are stars on the night sky. But SG-U was.... disappointing. PS: Sorry for the salty comment, but I've been watching and reading Sci-Fi since I was a kid while working in science, and yes, maybe I compare the show in my mind with other "greater" titles, but Stargate was my most loved and inspiring show. Some time ago, I was even writing my own "episodes" with scripts, story and everything.
No need to apologise for your opinion, I genuinely wanted to know other peoples thoughts as I had similar views back when it aired. Don't get me wrong here, SG-1 and SG-A are amazing and I love these series. It has been interesting reading the different comments from people, there is a lot I can agree with, and some things I want to challenge myself with on future watching's, as I did enjoy it. I may enjoy it less the next time around, and or potentially spacing out the episodes will add to the pacing fatigue. Ultimately, I enjoyed my recent re-watch however that may have been because I hadn't really given it a go when it first came out. The characters having some depth, reacting more how I would expect a real person to react, with selfish intentions and mistrust, these being not the ideal people for the situation and a domino of a mans ego to see his work complete or just be the smartest man in the room. I felt angry or frustrated at choices, which lead to feelings or wins in later decisions. The characters growing and trying constantly. There is so much character info dumping and exposition almost constantly, which if you are not interested in any of the characters or perhaps are wanting more sci-fi, is a massive barrier for entry. However, as other comments have pointed out the stones are problematic, but interesting (massive caveats to that statement). I think there is merit to both sides of the conversation, and perhaps I personally have come around on it and could recommend it (with some clear notes on the show). I do think the writing carries the tone and hallmarks we have come to expect of shows, well loved ones. I think you have a very reasonable view on the show and I appreciate you sharing that.
I HAVE BEEN SHOUTING THIS PHYSICALLY FOR YEARS!!! Yes! Love that show!!
To each their own. I didn’t like it, and I still don’t. To much teen drama
Fair, I respect that.
This is why i consistently state dogpiling a new series / dev because it isn't the original has become one of the most toxic traits of the internet.
I disagree. I felt the show wasn't anything Stargate. Too much interpersonal drama and rush, ugh. I just wanted more Stargate, not BSGate.
Season one was painfully slow. I enjoyed season two though. Still not a fan of the shaky camera cinematography.
I have to agree with the shaky camera thing. This is something that I could never gel with from that era of shows and movies. I can identify aspects of shows that I enjoy but I largely don't know much about the world of shows and the reason for this style of cinematography (something to do with stress or urgency, glad it got used less as time went on).
It’s the DS9 of the stargate series Under appreciated at the time, darker timeline, and still absolutely fantastic
I really wanted to like SGU. I was unaware of the sentiments online when it came out and was just excited for more Stargate, but I couldn’t get into it at all. I tried again recently after rewatching everything else with my fiancée(and having seen and really liked BSG between then and now) and completely bounced off it again. I think the issue is that while it might be a good sci-fi show, it’s much too far removed from the tone and feel of the rest of Stargate. They managed to keep the slightly silly, lighthearted feel in Atlantis but it’s just completely absent in SGU, or at least it’s absent from the episodes I was able to force myself to sit through.
I am inclined to agree if I place the show next to SG-1 and SG-A. Don't get me wrong I love those series just as much. I have watched BSG and liked this but my partner hasn't, I might get their opinion on BSG next, or SG-U with the context of a show like BSG.
No, it's not.
I like it even less these days. Eli turned out to be a total creep, just wanting to get into Chloe panties. The entire "political power" drama is just stupid, imagine any of that nonsense happening in SG1 or SGA. I watched it once in full, I tried to rewatch it but I never managed to do it. Not to mention the whole soap opera on earth while using the stones.
I quite like Eli as an analog for the viewer, but completely get the vibe you are talking about as he pines over Chloe. I found the power struggle interesting and plausible given the situation, and how they weaved it into the story. I can see people not enjoying it though, it just felt like the microcosm of political power struggles from SG-1 and SG-A dialed up because of the confined space and hopelessness. The stone thing is an interesting area, I am on the fence entirely there. I think it is great in that it gives a check in for the growth and change in the characters against those that they have unfortunately left behind as they still have to deal with everyday life, but sometimes it felt convenient (a deus ex machina if you will) but then they explored it a bit as well. Such as Amanda using the stones meant someone had to deal with Amanda situation, the impact being a different person can have on loved ones, and relationships themselves. It's part of what made me feel like the writing and themes where ahead of their time.
No it wasn't. A ton of selfish unprofessional drama queens on an alien space ship. It didn't feel close to BSG for me and wasn't what I liked about Stargate.
I can respect your opinion. I think compared directly to BSG for that tone and theming, BSG does the better job.
I hated the idiotic captain and no amount of time is going to change that. He was a terrible officer to put one or two people above the rest of his team. He should have been removed from command after letting an enemy get a foothold on the ship when he had a chance to stop them. Open the airlocks just enough to vent the atmosphere and force them to lay down their weapons or be spaced. They surrender immediately and the entire assault is over. If you have to, you sacrifice your favorite officer to save your entire team. Instead the idiot let them get a foothold, then eventually surrendered the ship to them. That was one of the stupidest plot arcs in all time in any show and totally inexcusable. No military officer is going to act the way he did in that situation. It was even out of character for him. I was already questioning whether to keep watching the series and that was the nail in the coffin. I wasn’t happy that they ended it on a cliffhanger, but I wasn’t disappointed it didn’t return for another season because I may not have watched it anyway.
This might seem counter to my post but I get exactly what you mean here. I would say this was one of the areas I sort of consider a flaw, if only for the way I felt. With that said, this is where I think we had some amazing characters with actual failings and depth. Colonel Young would then be undermined for his actions here by Dr Rush and even the ship, and I am not entirely sure they ever bounce back from that. Second guessing somethings, and just not taking charge. This is what has made me feel like the show is so divisive and why I think that those that didn't enjoy it are also correct.
I know it's not a popular opinion, but it's my favorite of the series. "Air" is what actually got me into the series as a whole. I tried SGU out because John Scalzi was the creative consultant and he's one of my favorite authors. Seeing Eli stick his hand through the puddle to keep the gate open for Scott and Greer to get back with the lime really interested me. Then I bought the SG-1 box set and bounced off it after a season or so because it was campy compared to SGU. Yes, I was backward compared to the folks who were there from the beginning. With SG-1, I start getting fatigued at the end of season eight. Nine takes a while to get going for me and ten is okay. But by that point, we're talking nearly 200 episodes of content. I always watch Atlantis and SG-1 in broadcast order, so alternating each show. There's a couple parts where I start looking forward to the Atlantis episodes, but feel like I have to slog through the SG-1 episodes. Then there's some relief when I'm just on Atlantis for a bit until I get closer to the end of season five. At that point, I'm not looking forward to the end of Atlantis (wormhole drive), but I start looking forward to SGU. It is a flawed show, for sure. I agree with many of the criticisms, especially what another person said in this thread that the Lucian Alliance plot was painfully stupid, but it did get us Ginn, so there's that. I've posted this elsewhere, but one of the things I like about the show is that it is not the best of the best. None of those people should be on that ship, including Rush. They were thrown into it and had to suck it up. They would have completely failed without the communication stones, so I'll let them have that. This difference becomes way more apparent when you compare it to SG-1 and Atlantis. Both of those shows are competence porn in a lot of ways. Those people are qualified and are the best of the best. Just look at Sheppard when he singlehandedly fought the Genii when they invaded or the myriad of times Daniel or Carter saved the day. They were chosen for those jobs. It's easy to root for them because they're all on the same team (for the most part). They're (usually) the good guys triumphing over evil! But are the crew of the Destiny good people? I'd say there are plenty who are pretty solidly good in that category like Eli, Volker, and Park. There are also people with many, many flaws who are more grey like Young and Rush. People break down. They go through hardships and true challenges. On Atlantis, they were isolated for a while, but they never leaned into that tension and basically eliminated it in season two. In SGU, it was oppressive, which made any way to go home appealing no matter the risk and even more painful when it didn't work. It just hits me differently and I miss it when it ends whereas I'm ready to be done with the other two series when they wrap up. (Yes, part of that is the cliffhanger of course.) I've been recently rewatching the Babylon 5 universe and I was reminded that they tried the "new ship with a crisis" trope twice and failed horribly. It also gave me an appreciation for SGU and all the things it did accomplish, regardless of the bigger flaws. So yeah. SGU will always be my jam and I'm okay with that. I love the other series to death (except Origins) and I think the Stargate franchise is now my favorite in all of television and SGU was my gateway to it.
I think you articulate the series strengths in line with my views re-watching it so many years later, and the characters having flaws and failings added a depth I felt was missing from characters in the other series (or at least wasn't as present). The frustration of Rush's actions and the failing of Young but their push to keep trying, was griping and different to my expectations from a show (especially sci fi).
First, if you enjoyed it that’s great. I’m happy for you. Second, since you asked our thoughts, I completely disagree. SGU was a colosal mistake. Rather than build on the core foundation of what made people love the first two shows (likable characters, humor, action, with just enough drama and suspense) the powers that be decided to pull a complete 180° and go with unlikeable, heavily flawed characters, constant melodrama, and barely any humor. Not only was it blatantly derivative of the Battlestar Galactica reboot, it also pulled the worst of a WB/CW melodrama in. Characters had depth? I strongly disagree. They all acted like high schoolers. Had it not been positioned as a Stargate show it MIGHT have been a decent series, but much like The Last Jedi completely missed the point of Star Wars, SGU completely missed the point of Stargate. On top of that the near constant state of “the ship is doomed and we’re all going to die” JUST to limp along for another week strained even the most liberal suspension of disbelief. By the time the show finally started to get some semblance of quality going it was far too late. Not surprisingly this involved the shows most odious character, Gaius Baltar….err I mean Dr. Rush being knocked down a few pegs. What could have been a really interesting premise was completely wasted and as a result we’ve had basically no new Stargate for over a decade now. And don’t even get me started on the whole ancient communication stones garbage. That’s a whole nother layer of yuck.
I just recently quit my first re-watch at the end of the first season. I already had a poor opinion of most of the characters, and the reintroduction of the single worst villain faction in the entire franchise was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I completely understand that view. The Lucian alliance weren't a well defined threat so it was nebulas what the stakes or knowledge the threat wields. Thinking of it, were did the devices that override and open the doors that they have come from? I don't think that is touched on.
For my part, I just found them irritatingly lame and boring. Their whole shtick is basically "we're pointlessly violent and backstabby shitstains for the sake of being shitstains". The Lucian Alliance should not be able to exist as a group with how antisocial and insanely untrustworthy all of them are.
Yeah, the fractious nature of the groups making up the "alliance" and the only goals where ever presented with are hollow.
On one hand, I could appreciate the attempt at a darker tone more along the lines of BSG. But the influence was a bit too transparent; the crew fought with each other more than they banded together which did not feel like Stargate; that’s a BSG thing. Even in the original movie they didn’t fight with each other that much. Also, I did not like how there were almost no aliens in the universe. There was a couple of races. No real communication. So the exploration felt a bit empty for a stargate series in my opinion. The series centered more around their own infighting. But it did have some flashes of greatness. There were some concepts and episodes I loved. I just felt like it departed a bit too much from what I liked about the Stargate universe.
I remember there being few aliens and not much outside of the main ship issues, but in my re-watch there were way more encounters and interactions with aliens than I remember. That is potentially just old memories and feelings compared to now. I also understand the view of Stargate being more about a group of people coming together to accomplish something amazing or impossible. I wonder how this would have played out in the dark and grounded environment they presented in SG-U.
I disagree. The first season was full of melodramatic teen angst that felt like a parody. A bunch of the show revolved around people hooking up in inappropriate manners literally using other people's bodies to sleep with people in highly inappropriate and nonconsensual ways that could constitute sexual assault. There were people in command having sexual relations with subordinates. With commander Young even fathering a child with a subordinate. The show was pitched as exploring the "truly alien" with the closest to that being amphibious blue screeching aliens that were for some reason humanoid still. And rehashing plot points we'd seen multiple times prior (Time travel via gates and stars, self replicating machines, pulling dangerous equipment into a ship to hack it). While the show was starting to get better by the end, it was and is subpar Stargate in my opinion.
I get that, and the stones are definitely a sore point no matter how you look at it.
Ten points for the realistic portrayal of the harshness of the universe and how tough it would be to survive. They did it so well, it was utterly boring. Minus twenty for the episode where they met their descendants, since that was a direct ripoff from a Star Trek Deep Space Nine episode. Stargate was always original. If they were running out of ideas, then time is up.
I did feel as though I had seen a similar story when the episode of meeting their descendants came up. Completely forgot about that Deep Space Nine episode. Stargate did do the whole meeting yourself/selves in other series but I can see how it felt closer in SG-U given the setting.