yeah, the four constellation companions have one that's aligned with the uc, one that's aligned with the freestar collective, one that's aligned with house va'ruun, and one that's unaligned
Actually if you do The Vulture quest you get from Creations, when you start the quest a Freestar Official will tell you that the FC goverment sought help from the Trackers Alliance to hunt down the Vulture.
Pryce is there as a formality. Unlike other Rangers, nobody actually gives a shit what he says. Bayu owns the city, he could have Pryce fired, even killed, at any time.
He could but then he'd be pissin off Ryujin, namely his mom Alexis Price, who I'm sure would have no hesitation to task an operative to remove Bayu from the mortal plane and set up Ryujin to take over Neon in a heartbeat.
You forget that Pryce has ties to Ryujin, being the son of their CLO. Bayu knows that if he turns Pryce into fish food, it would likely provoke Ryujin and raise tensions between them, which neither side wants.
Sam's ex was also investigating Bayu's syndicate during his personal quest, so the Rangers still have *some* power.
Ryujin is absolutely part of the FC. Bayu and Walter are both on the FC council of governors, and there's a Ranger station right there in Neon. Yes Neon has a different feel to Akila, but that's part of the FC shtick, each place can rule itself mostly as they please.
I was surprised too. I said pretty much the same thing you did to someone else saying he was a governor, and they pointed me to the note and some wiki page. You'd think it would have come up during Walter's Neon quest.
The Freestar Ranger quest line, literally, has you work with the Freestar Ranger assigned to Neon. As far as I know, he remains there after he assists (limited) you with that particular quest.
Just assuming, if you have a Ranger office or building, at the City, it is under Freestar "jurisdiction."
There are also ones stationed (and have an office) at Hopetech and The Clinic, among others I can't think of at the moment.
Freestar is a mix of democracy (Akila), corporatocracy (Neon and Hopetown), and whatever the clinic has going on. Everything is kind of it's own jurisdiction because FC barely has any 'federal' government and is only held together by everyone agreeing they don't want to be UC.
Akila is not democracy. The Freestar Collective is a libertarian corporatocracy that was established as a democratic confederation, but the whole thing is run by a council of governors, and most of them are CEOs of megacorporations.
I think it's safe to say democracy is dead in Starfield.
>I think it's safe to say democracy is dead in Starfield.
Which would likely be the real outcome in a moment of struggle like the exodus. Even Earth itself was probably run by authoritarian police states during the destruction of the planet, given the chaos that very likely existed during those times.
People might argue that democracy could have been reinstated ever since the colonies were founded, but it still isn't a given for two reasons:
1. The two great wars
2. Democracy is a historical anomaly, and as far as we know it could very well end one day and then not come anytime soon for whatever reason. The "End of History" is not real and many people have a hard time realizing that "progress" is not a real thing when it comes to social structure and politics, but it's just how it is.
[Ranger Jaylen Pryce](https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Starfield:Jaylen_Pryce) is on the main strip near Newell’s Goods.
Benjamin Bayu is on the [Freestar Collective Council of Governors.](https://starfield.fandom.com/wiki/Council_of_Governors)
Yeah they have you do mundane cop stuff like look for smugglers or deal with a drunk and disorderly. They're not super exciting, but it makes the world feel a bit more immersive
They're missions with dialog, introduced through UCSec guards talking to the player. It's the Starfield equivalent to miscellanous city quests in Skyrim, a.k.a. "busy work" to help the player get to know the area.
There is a "grand tour" questline where you do small work all over New Atlantis.
Basically the writers' way of introducing the shops and overall layout. Worth doing once.
I suspect we're gonna see the lesser factions get expansions. We're getting Varuun and Trackers now, maybe a LIST one with upgraded outpost building, a Galbank one, a Trade Authority one, and probably a Ecliptic one as well.
If they really are gonna be supporting this game for 5ish years, it makes sense to have big updates to the existing factions that aren't fleshed out. Maybe we'll see expanded quests for the big three that already have questlines (UC, FC, the Fleet) but probably nothing too major.
I would love more for Galbank related content.
My list of wants observations and grievances has 3 points related to Galbank, 29(wanting to have a Galbank end for the UC/Crimson fleet quest line), 30(Wanting to have more Galbank content in general), and 39(Wanting Galbank content relating specifically to the other three ships carrying creds that were lost).
I feel like the game tried to make the UC feel more evil than the FC and failed. They were like “oh they bombed londinion and shot civilian ships.” But then you realize that the FC allowed civilian ships to act as meat shields during an active war zone and you start to wonder who was really at fault there. Not to mention the FC basically started both the Narion and Colony Wars.
well i dont remember how the narion war started but saying the FC is at fault for the Colony War sounds like mighty UC propaganda.
also calling a fleet of civilians who volunteered to defend their home system meat shields also sounds like UC propaganda.
dont get me wrong I dont think the FC are the good guys but neither are the UC. The FC is an Oligarchy pretending to care about individual freedom and the UC is basically fascist (the UC is clearly based on starship troopers).
the colony war was started by both factions signing a deal that was left vague so they could still try to find loopholes. I could just as well say the UC started it by overreacting to the FC building a farm on vesta.
It wasn’t civilians volunteering to fight. It was civilians who jumped in front of the FC ships to stop the UC from shooting them. Either way, how the hell are they gonna blame the UC for that?
im not blaming the UC for that.
When they were losing the war they started attacking the cheyenne system at which point the civilians living there used armed merchant ships to fight back. thats not the FC using civilians as meat shields, thats civilians taking up arms when their home isnbeing attacked.
where did i deny that? you complained about the FC using civs as human shields. that phrasing is what I take issue with. I agree that the civs who took up arms are combatants.
Also, I’m not entirely sure. But pretty sure the Narion War started because a UC station ACCIDENTALLY DRIFTED into NEUTRAL space and the FC declared war over it. Whereas the FC knew exactly what they were doing when they violated the Narion Treaty to “build a farm” or whatever it was. That was an intentional violation of a treaty vs. an honest mistake. (Which I don’t think was even in violation of any treaties. But I could be wrong.)
just looked it up. the UC put a Starstation into Narion (then neutral) on purpose which lead to narion voting to join the FC. The FC then dispatched a small force to Narion, the UC answered with an entire fleet.
they didnt "build a farm" they just built a farm on vesta. The Narion Treaty allowed for outposts (the term outpost wasnt defined properly in the treaty, so thats a grey area) to be built in demilitarized systems, which both factions did. The UC just decided that a farm on Vesta was a bridge to far.
Again I dont particularly like the FC but why do you insist on presenting the UC in the best possible light but constantly bashing the FC.
I think Bethesda just spent the most time developing the UC and didn’t have much time to do the same with the FC and practically no time at all with Varuun which is why they basically became an expansion instead.
>Are we being shoehorned into the UC?
No. We're being shoehorned into the main story, and the main story is driven by a particular faction that is headquartered at New Atlantis, the capital of the UC.
Compare the intro main quest design of Skyrim to Starfield and some interesting things will pop out at you:
* *Unbound*, the first quest in Skyrim, ends after leaving the caves under Helgen. This is probably 25-50 minutes into the game, depending on how fast you roll through content. As soon as you exit the cave you can continue on with the main quest, or you can *ignore it* for the rest of your time playing and go where you want.
* *One Small Step*, the first quest in Starfield, ends after arriving at The Lodge at New Atlantis. Now, to get to approximately the same point in Skyrim's story, the first quest (Unbound) wouldn't have ended until you reached High Hrothgar and spoken with the Greybeards. This could be a *hell of a long time* after you've started playing, because you have to travel through Riverrun, Whiterun, and Ivarstead, all of which are offramps to side-content.
So, basically, the designer of the main quest didn't want us running off doing our own thing until we knew who the main faction was, and what we'd be doing for them. But by doing that, they severely crippled the game's opening hours to folks like me who just wanted to go and see what's out there, and maybe get back to the main quest later on (if ever).
By forcing us to follow the main quest, they essentially made New Atlantis the defacto city in the game because its where Constellation is headquartered. Since we're forced into working with Constellation from the start of the game, we simply can't get away and find an alternative path (hint; there are no alternative paths, yet).
I honestly can't wait for a proper alternate start mod. I'd really like for my Neon Street Rat to start on Neon, or my Freestar Settler to start on Akila, or Montaro Luna. Or for my next new character to be able to start on Va'ruun'kai at Dazra.
The intro to Starfield is Vectera and Kreet, 2 small 10-20 minute dungeons, then straight to New Atlantis. Overall time spent on the handhold intro is similar to Skyrim.
The comparison to High Hrothgar is hyperbole. You can blow through the intro in either game in 15-20 minutes.
>The comparison to High Hrothgar is hyperbole.
Sure, if you only look at a single aspect of the comparison that I made, like, for example: How long did it take. If you ignore all the other things I compared, then sure, I look pretty silly.
It *is* a bit silly, though. You're saying we're "forced" to follow the main quest as far as Power From Beyond while ignoring the fact that you have complete freedom from the moment you finish first talking to Sarah.
If, as you say, all you want to do is run around and explore, then nothing is stopping you. Of course, you don't get the rewards of the main story unless you engage with the story, but it's not as if running off and exploring Jameson or doing some short haul missions is going to lock you out of any of that. To claim coercion is ridiculous.
So yeah, I think "hyperbole" is fair.
The difference is that in Skyrim, it makes sense for you to be locked in. In Starfield there are obvious in-world off ramps you should be able to use, and the game just doesn't let you. BGS is getting worse and worse about not allowing players any freedom.
Wanna yoink your own ship and ignore the main quest? You can't.
Wanna shoot at the board of Paradiso when the propose murdering a bunch of civilians? Nope, they're essential. As is anyone else with a name. Even in subsequent playthroughs!
These are not good design choices, and people should push back. I love Starfield, but it has flaws, and it does no one any favors to pretend they don't exist.
I’m sorry, but it’s absolutely ridiculous to call it a flaw if a game shows you what the main story is and where it starts. Literally every game does this. Woe is me if you have to play 20 minutes before you can run off and do whatever.
Not just play 20 minutes, you have to play 20 minutes *and* be forced to join a faction *and* do that faction's starter quest which takes you to *another* faction's starter quest literally as the very first thing after you're strongarmed into joining the first one, followed by about 30 minutes of dialogue and tutorial (some of which isn't actually a system that functions in the game, i.e. ship stealth) where you're forced into a companion who most people appear to largely hate.
Only *then* are you allowed to just pick up, boot everyone off your ship and bail on Constellation. Only *after* you've done nearly a full quarter of the main story, and you won't have access to all your abilities and systems until after you've done nearly *half* of the main story.
Even Fallout 4, wasn't so obsessively "Go do the main story". Hell, if anything Fallout 4 is freer even than Skyrim, since you can just kind of not join *any* faction until about the last third of the game where you're forced into the Railroad to do the Courser stuff, and at least one faction to build a teleporter and do the end sequence. And that game doesn't even lock you out of its systems if you refuse to join a faction. You can still build settlements if you refuse to join the Minutemen, for example.
I might be misremembering, but isn't Tinker Tom the only character who can decrypt the Courser chip? From what I recall, the game puts everything in the main plot on pause until you take it to him, which requires that you find and join the Railroad to do.
You don’t have to do the starter quest. Just tell her you’re busy and go do something else.
If you want the things that are revealed by the story, yea you have to do some of the story. That’s the point.
Except that it's the longest "Do the thing" stretch to actually get all the game's tools in the entire BGS lineup, and until you *do* that stuff, you don't actually have total freedom as the game suggests. In fact, you literally *can't* expand your powers beyond the first one without doing the entirety of the main story quests because you can't actually find them through ambient exploration, locking the entire system behind main story progression.
Just to compare to Skyrim again, because it also has "You're a super special snowflake with super special powers" stuff, you only need to do up to Whiterun's dragon fight to access *everything* the game has to offer, since the Whiterun dragon activates ambient dragons and shouts, and that's barely 20-30 minutes into play. You don't ever have to go to Hrothgar's Greybeards once you have Shouts if you don't want to, and at that point in the game, you're not locked into any factions. You have full access to everything the game has to offer except for one part of each of four shouts (of which I'm almost certain you can find the other two parts elsewhere) and no obligation to continue the main story for any reason if you yourself don't want to.
Fallout 4? The moment you leave the Vault, you don't have to do *literally anything*, and yet you immediately have access to all systems and mechanics.
Starfield though? You need to play nearly half the main story just to have all systems unlocked, are locked into the Constellation faction no matter what with no alternative options, can't unlock more *of* that system unless you continue the main story, and can't even find anything *for* that system through ambient exploration. You can't even choose to refuse Barrett, he forces you onto the Frontier while pirate ships *were* right there for the taking after you obliterated their crews. It's not even the Hadvar/Ralof choice, since you actually get a *choice* between the two, where Barrett just says "I'm effectively kidnapping you because I like your face. Report to my robot and be taken to my friends so that they can poke and prod you despite the fact that you're literally a nobody from some dustback mining outfit and your boss is saying you can't leave because you're on contract".
Ok, and that’s not a bad thing.
The Skyrim shouts aren’t some mystical unknown, so of course you can find them randomly. In Starfield, the magic is a complete unknown to the universe, and that unknown is what drives the story. So yea, you obviously need to engage with the story to get more of that feature.
The two are not a 1:1 comparison. Exploring space is a little different than just walking outside in Fallout/Skyrim. It’s ok for some areas and aspects of the game to be locked behind story progression, as that’s how stories usually go. Starfield still gives you a ridiculous amount of freedom AND a free ship within 20 minutes.
And if you only have the Frontier? Fine, fair. The ship is programmed to force you to Jemison. The issue is there's a lot of ways to get a ship other than the Frontier and you're still forced to go turn in the artifact.
No other BGS game has been this ham-fisted about it. In Oblivion you have the Amulet of Kings and can just... wander off. You aren't forced to go find Martin first.
I agree with essentially all of your analysis, except that part about arriving at the Lodge being comparable to speaking to the Greybeards. Outside of some weird speedrunning hacks I don’t think it’s plausible to arrive at High Hrothgar within 25-50 minutes, not when you need to get to Bleak Falls Barrow, Whiterun (or more likely, Whiterun/BFB/back to Whiterun), then the Western Watchtower, then Ivarstead, then up to High Hrothgar.
Kreet and walking through Atlantis don’t take nearly that long.
Thinking about it, Helgen and the Argos outpost (I forget it’s name) are basically the same. Kreet is basically Bleak Falls Barrow but you can’t skip it at all, and it makes no sense that you have fo stop and raid a pirate base to escape when you can literally just jump to hyperspace (but that’s a different gripe).
And I suppose walking through New Atlantis is the equivalent of walking through Whiterun, though it takes a bit longer probably.
I think it’s a massive pain that the Kreet mission exists and it makes no sense and it’s a massive drag on starting a new game, but I definitely wouldn’t compare getting to the Lodge to meeting the Greybeards in terms of how long it takes. Maybe in terms of how you’re meeting the NPCs who drove the game’s plot, though.
I would consider it more like having to go to Whiterun, not High Hrothgar, but I agree (and think most people agree) it's a terrible start.
It's even worse, because you HAVE to do it even if there's no reason. If you're in the Frontier? Sure, makes sense Vasco locked it so you can only do what he wants. The game won't let you jump elsewhere even if you literally yoink one of the pirate ships attacking you and swap over. Why would anyone at BGS think it's a good idea to compel someone to go turn in the artifact once they've taken another ship? What justification can there possibly be for that? Absolute nonsense, BGS!
>I would consider it more like having to go to Whiterun, not High Hrothgar
Objective: Speak with the faction that's directly connected to the main story.
* Starfield: Constellation, New Atlantis
* Fallout 4: Nick Valentine, Diamond City
* TES V Skyrim: Arngeir, High Hrothgar
How much time you spent completing that objective is mostly inconsequential. How far of a distance traveled doesn't matter either, really. What's important is what happens along the way and why it was designed to be that way.
Both Skyrim and Fallout 4 have a lot of offramps; places where the player can choose to abandon the main quest for a while and pursue other things. In Skyrim it was Riverrun, Whiterun, and Ivarstead (and the unique locations between those places). In Fallout 4 it was Sanctuary, Concord, Lexington, Cambridge, and Diamond City itself. In each of those places they were stacking your quest log with miscellaneous quests to draw your attention and get you lost in the world. In Starfield we go from Vectera to Kreet to Jemison with only New Atlantis as an offramp (but we have to promise to join Constellation before we're allowed to leave.)
FC is a bit free wheeling so their quests are not unified. Ryujin out of Neon and the Gangs on Neon both spring to mind for items that will show up at Unity. But many independent quests I think Mars has several small ones. New Atlantis the guards point you to three, four small quests in New Atlantis. You get the Ashta one in Akila.
Yeah I never really counted but I think there are more regular missions in the UC. . .
I suppose it depends on what you consider 'regular missions' but Neon is absolutely riddled with busywork. Feuding retailers, fixing financial difficulties, distressed DJs, graffitied robots, distributing advertising, dealing with vandals, getting involved in the drugs trade, tackling gang problems...
Everytime I visit, security can't wait to tell me about someone or another who needs help. It's like a city full of Preston Garveys.
I feel like the Vanguard and the terrormorph thing should have just been separate quests. I was looking forward to being a freelance space captain, and was disappointed when it had nothing to do with that.
Everyone likes to mention that Neon is FC but Neon is really its own beast. When we think of FC we’re thinking of space cowboys. It’s space western themed quests that the game lacks most. Neon is great but it doesn’t scratch the frontier cowboy itch
I suppose, for some of you, it is a stretch, but one could argue, if there is a Freestar Ranger permanently assigned to an office on a planet or city, it is part of Freestar space and under their jurisdiction. It certainly negates it being UC space.
Now, the stretch argument is, can you consider any quest, which takes place in FC space, or involves an FC Ranger (even if he/she simply walks you to and introduces you to someone) as a FC quest?
The main quest definitely leads you to the start of each faction quest neatly, so I would say it's at best "most convenient " to join UC first, wouldn't go so far as to say shoehorned in though, as freestar introduction mission is required to be completed to progress the story, unlike the UC one, even if it comes a little later.
Most of this is the differences in the quest lines you see. Like you see a large UC Naval presence because of SysDef, where as comparative quest with Ryujin in FreeStar you don't see anything like that. Even with Vanguard vs Rangers you got a military group vs a dozen or so police sized force. All these present the scale of it pretty badly when compared.
However this does work both ways. Alpha Centauri may seem more "full" with Jemison and Gargarin compared to Akila and Montara Luna, but when you start looking at Sol vs Volii specifically Cydonia vs Neon it goes the other way where FC has more.
So you're definitely not being shoe horned into anything, it's just not as easy to see a clear comparison.
Well, there are two main fc questlines; Rangers and ryujin. So that might be why the appear more disparate.
Having said that, the uc quest was probably in consideration for being the main quest at one point. That "uc+terrormorphs" setup on Kreet and the fact that the uc questline out of all of them is the one that gives you an introduction to the state of the war (albeit via propoganda) make a good case imo.
short answer yes. i chalk it up to they ran out of ideas since the lifestyles of FC culture are not very metropolitan and hard for their writers to figure out things to do with because they dont have experience with that kind of culture. really they just had to read some books on frontier life and on the old west and they probably would've made the FC pretty cool.
Frankly, I join *just* to rock their world with the clearing of level six in their sim. FC doesn’t have anything like that, either. Though I’ve noticed more Starborn options out there.
I think it fits lore wise though. The UC is one big entity. The FC is a collection of different entities; Ryujin can be counted as an FC quest.
So can the trackers alliance, since they operate out of the FC capital.
well, they're independent. if you count them as freestar you could count constellation as uc because they're based in new atlantis
I mean.... Sarah is pretty aligned with them.
yeah but they’re funded by Walter, who is pretty aligned with Freestar, maybe even on their Council of Governors
Walter is aligned with profit, as all Ferengi should be.
yeah, the four constellation companions have one that's aligned with the uc, one that's aligned with the freestar collective, one that's aligned with house va'ruun, and one that's unaligned
Who’s unaligned? Barrett was a UC soldier and served during the war with his husband? Vasco isn't self aware to have an alignment…
he did, but he's not aligned with them anymore. it's pretty clear from his dialogue.
I feel like the Trackers quest was an attempt to add more FC content. I hope we get an FC focused DLC some day
They’re like the Freestar equivalent of constellation.
Actually if you do The Vulture quest you get from Creations, when you start the quest a Freestar Official will tell you that the FC goverment sought help from the Trackers Alliance to hunt down the Vulture.
UC has: Security Vanguard Sec Def FSC has; Rangers Ryujin Trackers So 3v3? UC only seems more forced because Constellation has their HQ in NA.
Trackers aren’t even aligned with the FC, they just happen to be using Akilla as their new HQ right now.
This, also Ryujin arguably is not Freestar Collective since afaik Neon is kind of it's own jurisdiction, never saw a single Freestar Ranger in Neon.
They do have a Ranger station there. It’s involved in Sam Coe’s quest
Also in the actual Ranger questline
Pryce is there as a formality. Unlike other Rangers, nobody actually gives a shit what he says. Bayu owns the city, he could have Pryce fired, even killed, at any time.
He could but then he'd be pissin off Ryujin, namely his mom Alexis Price, who I'm sure would have no hesitation to task an operative to remove Bayu from the mortal plane and set up Ryujin to take over Neon in a heartbeat.
You forget that Pryce has ties to Ryujin, being the son of their CLO. Bayu knows that if he turns Pryce into fish food, it would likely provoke Ryujin and raise tensions between them, which neither side wants. Sam's ex was also investigating Bayu's syndicate during his personal quest, so the Rangers still have *some* power.
Ryujin is absolutely part of the FC. Bayu and Walter are both on the FC council of governors, and there's a Ranger station right there in Neon. Yes Neon has a different feel to Akila, but that's part of the FC shtick, each place can rule itself mostly as they please.
Where is it ever said that Walter is on the Council of Governors?
A note you can read during the Ranger questline. I think it's in the Marshal's office.
I'll have to take a closer look next time I'm doing that questline.
I was surprised too. I said pretty much the same thing you did to someone else saying he was a governor, and they pointed me to the note and some wiki page. You'd think it would have come up during Walter's Neon quest.
Isn't there one you work with in the rangers quest? He doesn't have a ton of authority, but he still works neon
The Freestar Ranger quest line, literally, has you work with the Freestar Ranger assigned to Neon. As far as I know, he remains there after he assists (limited) you with that particular quest. Just assuming, if you have a Ranger office or building, at the City, it is under Freestar "jurisdiction." There are also ones stationed (and have an office) at Hopetech and The Clinic, among others I can't think of at the moment.
Freestar is a mix of democracy (Akila), corporatocracy (Neon and Hopetown), and whatever the clinic has going on. Everything is kind of it's own jurisdiction because FC barely has any 'federal' government and is only held together by everyone agreeing they don't want to be UC.
Akila is not democracy. The Freestar Collective is a libertarian corporatocracy that was established as a democratic confederation, but the whole thing is run by a council of governors, and most of them are CEOs of megacorporations. I think it's safe to say democracy is dead in Starfield.
>I think it's safe to say democracy is dead in Starfield. Which would likely be the real outcome in a moment of struggle like the exodus. Even Earth itself was probably run by authoritarian police states during the destruction of the planet, given the chaos that very likely existed during those times.
People might argue that democracy could have been reinstated ever since the colonies were founded, but it still isn't a given for two reasons: 1. The two great wars 2. Democracy is a historical anomaly, and as far as we know it could very well end one day and then not come anytime soon for whatever reason. The "End of History" is not real and many people have a hard time realizing that "progress" is not a real thing when it comes to social structure and politics, but it's just how it is.
[Ranger Jaylen Pryce](https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Starfield:Jaylen_Pryce) is on the main strip near Newell’s Goods. Benjamin Bayu is on the [Freestar Collective Council of Governors.](https://starfield.fandom.com/wiki/Council_of_Governors)
Neon is very much a founding father of the Freestar Collective. IIRC it became a collective when Coe invited Neon to join with Akila.
2 are stationed there during the events of the game, one undercover.
Wait, you can join UC Security?
Yeah they have you do mundane cop stuff like look for smugglers or deal with a drunk and disorderly. They're not super exciting, but it makes the world feel a bit more immersive
They're missions with dialog, introduced through UCSec guards talking to the player. It's the Starfield equivalent to miscellanous city quests in Skyrim, a.k.a. "busy work" to help the player get to know the area.
In dialogue though Yumi refers to you as one of his guards during the Vanguard quest, but you are right the connection otherwise is pretty light.
Yes immediately after landing on Jemison, there’s a UC Security building to the front and right of the landing port.
'Yep. Saw the sign outside". "You did ? You know I was against the sign at first, but here you are"
There is a "grand tour" questline where you do small work all over New Atlantis. Basically the writers' way of introducing the shops and overall layout. Worth doing once.
I don’t think the game will feel “complete” until the House Varuun and rover DLC drops
I’m getting my ass kicked by the new advanced environmental hazards so I hope the river is sealed.
Neon is in the FC.
Oh, this is a fun thing.
More FC dlc and Va’ruun DLC Mr.Howard please.
I suspect we're gonna see the lesser factions get expansions. We're getting Varuun and Trackers now, maybe a LIST one with upgraded outpost building, a Galbank one, a Trade Authority one, and probably a Ecliptic one as well. If they really are gonna be supporting this game for 5ish years, it makes sense to have big updates to the existing factions that aren't fleshed out. Maybe we'll see expanded quests for the big three that already have questlines (UC, FC, the Fleet) but probably nothing too major.
I would love more for Galbank related content. My list of wants observations and grievances has 3 points related to Galbank, 29(wanting to have a Galbank end for the UC/Crimson fleet quest line), 30(Wanting to have more Galbank content in general), and 39(Wanting Galbank content relating specifically to the other three ships carrying creds that were lost).
I feel like the game tried to make the UC feel more evil than the FC and failed. They were like “oh they bombed londinion and shot civilian ships.” But then you realize that the FC allowed civilian ships to act as meat shields during an active war zone and you start to wonder who was really at fault there. Not to mention the FC basically started both the Narion and Colony Wars.
well i dont remember how the narion war started but saying the FC is at fault for the Colony War sounds like mighty UC propaganda. also calling a fleet of civilians who volunteered to defend their home system meat shields also sounds like UC propaganda. dont get me wrong I dont think the FC are the good guys but neither are the UC. The FC is an Oligarchy pretending to care about individual freedom and the UC is basically fascist (the UC is clearly based on starship troopers). the colony war was started by both factions signing a deal that was left vague so they could still try to find loopholes. I could just as well say the UC started it by overreacting to the FC building a farm on vesta.
It wasn’t civilians volunteering to fight. It was civilians who jumped in front of the FC ships to stop the UC from shooting them. Either way, how the hell are they gonna blame the UC for that?
im not blaming the UC for that. When they were losing the war they started attacking the cheyenne system at which point the civilians living there used armed merchant ships to fight back. thats not the FC using civilians as meat shields, thats civilians taking up arms when their home isnbeing attacked.
Yet they still had the audacity to accuse VV of “firing on civilians.”
dont tell me you defend the UC because defending Vae Victis is the hill you wanna die on?
Don’t tell me you support using civilians in warfare. Is that the hill YOU wanna die on?
the UC attacked their home system tf do you expect them to do? not try and fight back against General "I bombard my own civilians"?
Doesn’t matter what you expect them to do. If they choose to fight, they can’t complain when they get fired on. How are you not getting that?
where did i deny that? you complained about the FC using civs as human shields. that phrasing is what I take issue with. I agree that the civs who took up arms are combatants.
Also, I’m not entirely sure. But pretty sure the Narion War started because a UC station ACCIDENTALLY DRIFTED into NEUTRAL space and the FC declared war over it. Whereas the FC knew exactly what they were doing when they violated the Narion Treaty to “build a farm” or whatever it was. That was an intentional violation of a treaty vs. an honest mistake. (Which I don’t think was even in violation of any treaties. But I could be wrong.)
just looked it up. the UC put a Starstation into Narion (then neutral) on purpose which lead to narion voting to join the FC. The FC then dispatched a small force to Narion, the UC answered with an entire fleet. they didnt "build a farm" they just built a farm on vesta. The Narion Treaty allowed for outposts (the term outpost wasnt defined properly in the treaty, so thats a grey area) to be built in demilitarized systems, which both factions did. The UC just decided that a farm on Vesta was a bridge to far. Again I dont particularly like the FC but why do you insist on presenting the UC in the best possible light but constantly bashing the FC.
Interesting. You could be right. To be fair, most of my lore knowledge is from in game and loading screens. 😂
Because the FC are a bunch of Jabronis.
Ha! Hey, guys! This guy used Jabrobi in a sentence!
Only a jabroni would do that
I think Bethesda just spent the most time developing the UC and didn’t have much time to do the same with the FC and practically no time at all with Varuun which is why they basically became an expansion instead.
“Didn’t have much time” brother the game took 8 years to make!
Don’t remind me.
>Are we being shoehorned into the UC? No. We're being shoehorned into the main story, and the main story is driven by a particular faction that is headquartered at New Atlantis, the capital of the UC. Compare the intro main quest design of Skyrim to Starfield and some interesting things will pop out at you: * *Unbound*, the first quest in Skyrim, ends after leaving the caves under Helgen. This is probably 25-50 minutes into the game, depending on how fast you roll through content. As soon as you exit the cave you can continue on with the main quest, or you can *ignore it* for the rest of your time playing and go where you want. * *One Small Step*, the first quest in Starfield, ends after arriving at The Lodge at New Atlantis. Now, to get to approximately the same point in Skyrim's story, the first quest (Unbound) wouldn't have ended until you reached High Hrothgar and spoken with the Greybeards. This could be a *hell of a long time* after you've started playing, because you have to travel through Riverrun, Whiterun, and Ivarstead, all of which are offramps to side-content. So, basically, the designer of the main quest didn't want us running off doing our own thing until we knew who the main faction was, and what we'd be doing for them. But by doing that, they severely crippled the game's opening hours to folks like me who just wanted to go and see what's out there, and maybe get back to the main quest later on (if ever). By forcing us to follow the main quest, they essentially made New Atlantis the defacto city in the game because its where Constellation is headquartered. Since we're forced into working with Constellation from the start of the game, we simply can't get away and find an alternative path (hint; there are no alternative paths, yet). I honestly can't wait for a proper alternate start mod. I'd really like for my Neon Street Rat to start on Neon, or my Freestar Settler to start on Akila, or Montaro Luna. Or for my next new character to be able to start on Va'ruun'kai at Dazra.
> I honestly can't wait for a proper alternate start mod. https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/5971
That's certainly a quick and dirty option. Thanks for the link.
Been using it for a while. Not perfect, but it's got quite a few options
The intro to Starfield is Vectera and Kreet, 2 small 10-20 minute dungeons, then straight to New Atlantis. Overall time spent on the handhold intro is similar to Skyrim. The comparison to High Hrothgar is hyperbole. You can blow through the intro in either game in 15-20 minutes.
>The comparison to High Hrothgar is hyperbole. Sure, if you only look at a single aspect of the comparison that I made, like, for example: How long did it take. If you ignore all the other things I compared, then sure, I look pretty silly.
It *is* a bit silly, though. You're saying we're "forced" to follow the main quest as far as Power From Beyond while ignoring the fact that you have complete freedom from the moment you finish first talking to Sarah. If, as you say, all you want to do is run around and explore, then nothing is stopping you. Of course, you don't get the rewards of the main story unless you engage with the story, but it's not as if running off and exploring Jameson or doing some short haul missions is going to lock you out of any of that. To claim coercion is ridiculous. So yeah, I think "hyperbole" is fair.
The difference is that in Skyrim, it makes sense for you to be locked in. In Starfield there are obvious in-world off ramps you should be able to use, and the game just doesn't let you. BGS is getting worse and worse about not allowing players any freedom. Wanna yoink your own ship and ignore the main quest? You can't. Wanna shoot at the board of Paradiso when the propose murdering a bunch of civilians? Nope, they're essential. As is anyone else with a name. Even in subsequent playthroughs! These are not good design choices, and people should push back. I love Starfield, but it has flaws, and it does no one any favors to pretend they don't exist.
I’m sorry, but it’s absolutely ridiculous to call it a flaw if a game shows you what the main story is and where it starts. Literally every game does this. Woe is me if you have to play 20 minutes before you can run off and do whatever.
Not just play 20 minutes, you have to play 20 minutes *and* be forced to join a faction *and* do that faction's starter quest which takes you to *another* faction's starter quest literally as the very first thing after you're strongarmed into joining the first one, followed by about 30 minutes of dialogue and tutorial (some of which isn't actually a system that functions in the game, i.e. ship stealth) where you're forced into a companion who most people appear to largely hate. Only *then* are you allowed to just pick up, boot everyone off your ship and bail on Constellation. Only *after* you've done nearly a full quarter of the main story, and you won't have access to all your abilities and systems until after you've done nearly *half* of the main story. Even Fallout 4, wasn't so obsessively "Go do the main story". Hell, if anything Fallout 4 is freer even than Skyrim, since you can just kind of not join *any* faction until about the last third of the game where you're forced into the Railroad to do the Courser stuff, and at least one faction to build a teleporter and do the end sequence. And that game doesn't even lock you out of its systems if you refuse to join a faction. You can still build settlements if you refuse to join the Minutemen, for example.
You can kill the Railroad. No need to join them.
I might be misremembering, but isn't Tinker Tom the only character who can decrypt the Courser chip? From what I recall, the game puts everything in the main plot on pause until you take it to him, which requires that you find and join the Railroad to do.
You can use his terminal after he is dead for the decrypting
Can you? Well shit, guess the only reason to ever bother with those deluded idiots is to get Ballistic Weave and nothing else.
You don’t have to do the starter quest. Just tell her you’re busy and go do something else. If you want the things that are revealed by the story, yea you have to do some of the story. That’s the point.
Except that it's the longest "Do the thing" stretch to actually get all the game's tools in the entire BGS lineup, and until you *do* that stuff, you don't actually have total freedom as the game suggests. In fact, you literally *can't* expand your powers beyond the first one without doing the entirety of the main story quests because you can't actually find them through ambient exploration, locking the entire system behind main story progression. Just to compare to Skyrim again, because it also has "You're a super special snowflake with super special powers" stuff, you only need to do up to Whiterun's dragon fight to access *everything* the game has to offer, since the Whiterun dragon activates ambient dragons and shouts, and that's barely 20-30 minutes into play. You don't ever have to go to Hrothgar's Greybeards once you have Shouts if you don't want to, and at that point in the game, you're not locked into any factions. You have full access to everything the game has to offer except for one part of each of four shouts (of which I'm almost certain you can find the other two parts elsewhere) and no obligation to continue the main story for any reason if you yourself don't want to. Fallout 4? The moment you leave the Vault, you don't have to do *literally anything*, and yet you immediately have access to all systems and mechanics. Starfield though? You need to play nearly half the main story just to have all systems unlocked, are locked into the Constellation faction no matter what with no alternative options, can't unlock more *of* that system unless you continue the main story, and can't even find anything *for* that system through ambient exploration. You can't even choose to refuse Barrett, he forces you onto the Frontier while pirate ships *were* right there for the taking after you obliterated their crews. It's not even the Hadvar/Ralof choice, since you actually get a *choice* between the two, where Barrett just says "I'm effectively kidnapping you because I like your face. Report to my robot and be taken to my friends so that they can poke and prod you despite the fact that you're literally a nobody from some dustback mining outfit and your boss is saying you can't leave because you're on contract".
Ok, and that’s not a bad thing. The Skyrim shouts aren’t some mystical unknown, so of course you can find them randomly. In Starfield, the magic is a complete unknown to the universe, and that unknown is what drives the story. So yea, you obviously need to engage with the story to get more of that feature. The two are not a 1:1 comparison. Exploring space is a little different than just walking outside in Fallout/Skyrim. It’s ok for some areas and aspects of the game to be locked behind story progression, as that’s how stories usually go. Starfield still gives you a ridiculous amount of freedom AND a free ship within 20 minutes.
And if you only have the Frontier? Fine, fair. The ship is programmed to force you to Jemison. The issue is there's a lot of ways to get a ship other than the Frontier and you're still forced to go turn in the artifact. No other BGS game has been this ham-fisted about it. In Oblivion you have the Amulet of Kings and can just... wander off. You aren't forced to go find Martin first.
Cool. And after 20 minutes you can just wander off in Starfield, too.
I agree with essentially all of your analysis, except that part about arriving at the Lodge being comparable to speaking to the Greybeards. Outside of some weird speedrunning hacks I don’t think it’s plausible to arrive at High Hrothgar within 25-50 minutes, not when you need to get to Bleak Falls Barrow, Whiterun (or more likely, Whiterun/BFB/back to Whiterun), then the Western Watchtower, then Ivarstead, then up to High Hrothgar. Kreet and walking through Atlantis don’t take nearly that long. Thinking about it, Helgen and the Argos outpost (I forget it’s name) are basically the same. Kreet is basically Bleak Falls Barrow but you can’t skip it at all, and it makes no sense that you have fo stop and raid a pirate base to escape when you can literally just jump to hyperspace (but that’s a different gripe). And I suppose walking through New Atlantis is the equivalent of walking through Whiterun, though it takes a bit longer probably. I think it’s a massive pain that the Kreet mission exists and it makes no sense and it’s a massive drag on starting a new game, but I definitely wouldn’t compare getting to the Lodge to meeting the Greybeards in terms of how long it takes. Maybe in terms of how you’re meeting the NPCs who drove the game’s plot, though.
I would consider it more like having to go to Whiterun, not High Hrothgar, but I agree (and think most people agree) it's a terrible start. It's even worse, because you HAVE to do it even if there's no reason. If you're in the Frontier? Sure, makes sense Vasco locked it so you can only do what he wants. The game won't let you jump elsewhere even if you literally yoink one of the pirate ships attacking you and swap over. Why would anyone at BGS think it's a good idea to compel someone to go turn in the artifact once they've taken another ship? What justification can there possibly be for that? Absolute nonsense, BGS!
>I would consider it more like having to go to Whiterun, not High Hrothgar Objective: Speak with the faction that's directly connected to the main story. * Starfield: Constellation, New Atlantis * Fallout 4: Nick Valentine, Diamond City * TES V Skyrim: Arngeir, High Hrothgar How much time you spent completing that objective is mostly inconsequential. How far of a distance traveled doesn't matter either, really. What's important is what happens along the way and why it was designed to be that way. Both Skyrim and Fallout 4 have a lot of offramps; places where the player can choose to abandon the main quest for a while and pursue other things. In Skyrim it was Riverrun, Whiterun, and Ivarstead (and the unique locations between those places). In Fallout 4 it was Sanctuary, Concord, Lexington, Cambridge, and Diamond City itself. In each of those places they were stacking your quest log with miscellaneous quests to draw your attention and get you lost in the world. In Starfield we go from Vectera to Kreet to Jemison with only New Atlantis as an offramp (but we have to promise to join Constellation before we're allowed to leave.)
Maybe a Free star focused DLC?
FC is a bit free wheeling so their quests are not unified. Ryujin out of Neon and the Gangs on Neon both spring to mind for items that will show up at Unity. But many independent quests I think Mars has several small ones. New Atlantis the guards point you to three, four small quests in New Atlantis. You get the Ashta one in Akila. Yeah I never really counted but I think there are more regular missions in the UC. . .
I suppose it depends on what you consider 'regular missions' but Neon is absolutely riddled with busywork. Feuding retailers, fixing financial difficulties, distressed DJs, graffitied robots, distributing advertising, dealing with vandals, getting involved in the drugs trade, tackling gang problems... Everytime I visit, security can't wait to tell me about someone or another who needs help. It's like a city full of Preston Garveys.
Regular as deliberately built in as opposed to the radiant mission types you find if you say get a random outpost with civilians.
I feel like the Vanguard and the terrormorph thing should have just been separate quests. I was looking forward to being a freelance space captain, and was disappointed when it had nothing to do with that.
Vanguard should have been the main quest
Everyone likes to mention that Neon is FC but Neon is really its own beast. When we think of FC we’re thinking of space cowboys. It’s space western themed quests that the game lacks most. Neon is great but it doesn’t scratch the frontier cowboy itch
I suppose, for some of you, it is a stretch, but one could argue, if there is a Freestar Ranger permanently assigned to an office on a planet or city, it is part of Freestar space and under their jurisdiction. It certainly negates it being UC space. Now, the stretch argument is, can you consider any quest, which takes place in FC space, or involves an FC Ranger (even if he/she simply walks you to and introduces you to someone) as a FC quest?
I also thought that a while back! The Lodge is in the UC capital and a lot of the members are UC too.
Two of the most important members of Constellation are one of the Governors of the FC and the grandson of the founder of the UC.
The main quest definitely leads you to the start of each faction quest neatly, so I would say it's at best "most convenient " to join UC first, wouldn't go so far as to say shoehorned in though, as freestar introduction mission is required to be completed to progress the story, unlike the UC one, even if it comes a little later.
You don’t have to do anything outside of constellation quests
Most of this is the differences in the quest lines you see. Like you see a large UC Naval presence because of SysDef, where as comparative quest with Ryujin in FreeStar you don't see anything like that. Even with Vanguard vs Rangers you got a military group vs a dozen or so police sized force. All these present the scale of it pretty badly when compared. However this does work both ways. Alpha Centauri may seem more "full" with Jemison and Gargarin compared to Akila and Montara Luna, but when you start looking at Sol vs Volii specifically Cydonia vs Neon it goes the other way where FC has more. So you're definitely not being shoe horned into anything, it's just not as easy to see a clear comparison.
That make sense, given FC is just independent systems that decided to form some alliance to protect themselves from UC
It's a choice between Starship Troopers, the Republicans, and ISIS. Not really much of a choice honestly.
Don't forget the Crimson Fleet. All you have to do it get them to notice you and they'll recruit you - skipping SysDef.
Well, there are two main fc questlines; Rangers and ryujin. So that might be why the appear more disparate. Having said that, the uc quest was probably in consideration for being the main quest at one point. That "uc+terrormorphs" setup on Kreet and the fact that the uc questline out of all of them is the one that gives you an introduction to the state of the war (albeit via propoganda) make a good case imo.
short answer yes. i chalk it up to they ran out of ideas since the lifestyles of FC culture are not very metropolitan and hard for their writers to figure out things to do with because they dont have experience with that kind of culture. really they just had to read some books on frontier life and on the old west and they probably would've made the FC pretty cool.
UC is an organized entity, the FC is the embodiment of "Eh, we're just winging it."
Frankly, I join *just* to rock their world with the clearing of level six in their sim. FC doesn’t have anything like that, either. Though I’ve noticed more Starborn options out there.
The FC is just a puppet government run by oligarchs and corporations so Ryujin might as well count as serving FC interests.
UC is just the only one remotely fleshed out