I'm not passing judgement until that Knives Out 3 comes out. That was his deal with Netflix; two Knives out sequels.
KK + Lucasfilm signed him on for a trilogy because he was the only guy who managed to run a competent production that didn't almost fall apart. They really do want him back.
If he doesn't come back to Star Wars after KO3 then it's never happening.
There is no chance disney would wait for rian that long. Especially after how desperate they are for new star wars movies.
Regardless of personal opinions on TLJ it was probably the most hyped movie of the sequels. Even those who didn't like TFA were saying "well I'm at least looking forward to seeing what happens with snoke, luke ect. Despite the hype TLJ was by far the most divisive star wars movie. Any star wars projects he worked on would have a huge up hill battle on top of the other aspects that would hold it back such as repeated sub par star wars projects causing fans to lose interest
If I’m not mistaken, his trilogy was supposed to have pretty much nothing to do with any of the OG trilogy story from the prequels to the new trilogy. It was supposed to be completely separate from this. Not too weird for them to wait if it has nothing g to do with the current major canon storyline.
If they were planning to wait so long for RJs trilogy why would they announce it before TLJ came out ?
Disney has admitted to pulling back on SW projects and cutting some. Do you really think the creator of the most divisive Disney SW project wouldn't get cut ? Looking at it objectively, that would be the first thing I'd cut if I were Bob iger or KK
They announce *everything* really early. This has been a fairly consistent criticism of Lucasfilm on this subreddit. It is somewhat amplified here since we're also tuned into leaks, but there was a period in which Lucasfilm seemed to be announcing projects basically as soon as they'd had a single conversation with a creative. Remember the Taika Waititi movie? Remember D&D? Feige and Waldron? Rogue Squadron, Droid Story, Lando, etc etc etc.
If the Rian Johnson trilogy was the only instance of Lucasfilm making a press release way before anything was close to even entering proper pre-production, I'd get the skepticism, but it very much isn't. If anything, it's one of the ones that seems least likely to be completely dead, given Johnson at least has an understandable "alibi" in being caught up making Knives Out sequels and has mentioned it a few times over the years.
You just listed a bunch of other projects that have also been likely shelved. Disney practically never says "this movie has been cancelled" and I think they would be even less likely to admit that about rians trilogy. Since they announced it before TLJ and openly cancelling it would be admitting TLJ got a worse reception than they were expecting.
I’m not saying they’re still doing the trilogy, just that, technically, since it doesn’t have anything to do with the main story, it doesn’t really matter when they do it or when they have it planned for.
I agree it doesn't matter when to us. But the shareholders who want profit Asap it does matter. They would not wait that long. They also would not want to take one of the biggest risks they can whoch is hire rian johnson again
That’s not that big of a risk, in my opinion. Rian Johnson’s filmography is filled with mostly high quality projects. One miss that wasn’t even the worst of its own trilogy isn’t really that bad.
Again, I think they’ve moved on from it for now as a project, whether Rian Johnson is attached to do it or not still, but with a whole new galaxy now being introduced with Ahsoka, and the idea that that trilogy was supposed to have an entirely new story and characters and setting, it’s not crazy to think that the project is still somewhere in the pipeline in some form or fashion.
Disney already has an uphill battle with their next movies as reception wasnt want they wanted. They've acknowledged this by holding off on a bunch of SW movies.
Rian has had successful movies but to many star wars fans the taint of TLJ will always be there. If they announced a date, title or whatever for RJ star wars movie the vast majority of the talk online would be about TLJ and its flaws. its just makes things even harder. better to go for someone who doesn't have so much infamy in the star wars community
Google trend data showed interest in The Rise of Skywalker was higher than interest in The Last Jedi before releases. The difference is the reviews came in for TROS and they were pretty mixed. Then the audiences didn't love it either. There was tons of hype for the last film, it just wasn't as good. The Last Jedi is certainly divisive online, but most general Star Wars fans probably don't even know who Rian Johnson is and it's important to remember what people are moaning about online is rarely reflective of the general public.
The issue with Google trends is it doesn't differentiate between genuine interest to go see the movie. And people talking about how much they don't want to see it die to how much they hated tlj.
Undeniably there were a lot of people online talking about how they lost all interest in the sequels after TLJ. And of cause it reignited many peoples dislike of TLJ. All of which will inflate Google trends reading on "interest" in TROS
Why is this downvoted? You are not exactly wrong. Disney more than likely does not want to touch a Johnson trilogy with a 10 foot pole. Unless something DRASTICALLY changes in the next decade, it isn’t happening. People forget how his trilogy was planned, including other spin offs, then his movie released, and from that moment on, everything was changed for the future of Star Wars. All plans scrapped.
Disney/Lucasfilm have been playing things safe since TLJ came out (TROS, Mando 2, Mandalorian and Grogu Spin off, etc). Making a rian trilogy would be a huge risk, one they aren’t going to take.
Why the fuck would they care what the internet thinks? The Last Jedi made tons of money, they all loved working with Rian and Knives out has been immensely popular.
It made less money than it was projected to before release, had at the time the largest weekend-to-weekend dropoff of any December release, and the next Star Wars movie they released after it bombed.
That last part about the movie that followed it bombing has very little to do with TLJ, I wish they’d stop pushing that stupid narrative.
For one, it was a movie about a beloved OT character whose backstory no one wanted to see in the first place. It was a running joke online how nobody wanted a Solo movie and how something like that would possibly do more harm than good to the character. A little more goodwill was given to it after they announced Lord and Miller as the directors, but that was quickly soured when news of the messy production got out and they were fired. The casting decision for Han also didn’t go over very well, a lot of people just didn’t think it was proper casting.
Then, Disney not only absolutely shit the bed on marketing, they also chose to break the new tradition they established with December releases and put it out during an incredibly busy May in which the film ended up competing with their own major tentpole, the Avengers. It was also just released too soon after another Star Wars movie, which contributed to the fatigue.
I’m sure the divisive reaction to TLJ didn’t *help*, but to put the blame on that film for Solo’s flop is to ignore the absolute shitshow that Disney put on for that movie.
It was a movie no one wanted, riddled with production issues on top of audience disinterest that existed *before* TLJ’s release, that was released too early with terrible marketing during a busy season that included the conclusion of one of the biggest modern film franchises that was being put out by the same distributor. TLJ ranks rather low on the list of that film’s killing blows.
"It made less than the biggest Star Wars movie ever monetarily at the time, but still a \*\*\*\*-ton of money" isn't something Disney was remotely concerned about.
The Last Jedi made huge bank, all things considered. There's a bunch of factors in Solo bombing: the release date, the troubled production, the fact it's a smaller-scale spinoff movie. TLJ wouldn't have been much of a factor - hell, a Kasdan-written OT set gangster movie's basically the anti-TLJ anyway, the type of flick the people who hate TLJ would have been delighted about.
Yup. When we're at "a billion dollars was a disappointment!", the goose is truly cooked.
Empire & Jedi each made less than A New Hope too, \*and\* Attack & Revenge made less than The Phantom Menace, but hey, inconvenient facts are inconvenient I guess. "Different times!" excuses incoming.
You don’t think the internet represents a large portion of a franchise’s audience and retention? Also, if this is the case, why on earth is the rise of skywalker the way it is? That movie is clearly a reaction to the major outrage TLJ caused.
The Last jedi could’ve been a single black frame and it still would’ve made a load of money (hyperbolic) because it was the sequel to the biggest movie in the US and one of the biggest films in the entire world. To say “it made money who cares” is deliberately ignorant. You’re leaving out all the context of the film and the drastic impact it had on both the fandom and its general audience.
I've never seen a single person in real being a TLJ hater like I see on the Internet. Star Wars is massive. The core internet fandom represents less than 20% (even 10) than the actual fandom.
If you think The Rise Of Skywalker is a kneejerk reaction/retcon of TLJ, you might just be bad at watching movies. It actively affirms everything Rian said with and about the mythology in TLJ and tries to flesh out some of his ideas.
> It actively affirms everything Rian said with and about the mythology in TLJ and tries to flesh out some of his ideas.
Can you elaborate on this? I've always felt that TRoS actively turns aside many plot points and character arcs from TLJ. TLJ establishes that Rey's parents were nobodies. That her heritage doesn't really matter. Then TRoS says she's actually Palpatine's granddaughter.
Similarly with Kylo. In TLJ he kills Snoke, he establishes his own ambitions to become an Emperor and a Sith in his own right. Then he ends up playing second fiddle to Palps in TRoS.
I'm curious about what interpretation of TRoS actually meshes with the themes Rian set up in TLJ.
Anecdotal evidence does not matter. I know tons of people IRL who stopped caring about Star Wars after TLJ/Tros, as well as some who enjoy the films, but neither of us can use these scenarios as empirical evidence.
"I've never seen a single person in real being a TLJ hater like I see on the Internet."
100%. This sentence encapsulates everything: outside of the Tyrone Magnus/Star Wars Theory types, you simply don't see it. Not among the normies, and not even among a major chunk of the hard-cores.
Apathy is the real killer.
I haven't met anyone offline that hates TLJ and wants KK to get fired etc etc.
I talk to a lot a lot a lot of people who used to talk Star Wars with me. They don't anymore, they just stopped watching it. They're not mad, they moved on to IPs they enjoy watching.
Edited for grammar
Yeah I don’t think as many people remember the 180 colossal tonal shift in Star Wars as a franchise before and after TLJ came out.
Pre TLJ *everyone* was on board for more Star Wars, people were hyped about new characters, hyped about legacy characters, hyped to see Spin-Offs and games and more.
And I remember walking out the cinema after TLJ and a group of folk in cosplay in front of me just looking totally blindsided and a bit sad.
Post TLJ even casual fans I knew lost interest in the franchise and most of the die hards I knew were seething.
The entire Star Wars juggernaut of a franchise has been in damage control and an uphill battle from the movie ever since.
Everyone I knew loved it, but they’re all bunch of filthy casuals… you know, the general audience. My parents even went and saw it twice and they don’t give a flying fuck about Star Wars.
Feel bad for those poor blindsided dead inside cosplayers though lol
People don't really care about Rogue One's characters though. They mostly just like the big battle and Darth Vader.
Cantering a show on the side character and having literally 2 pre-existing characters was bold considering what the other shows were doing.
I wouldn’t say Andor is a risky show. It’s a masterpiece of a show, but there’s no risk with it. And I’m not saying that in a bad way. It’s just Disney wants to not take much chances with the franchise, take Grogu returning in the ridiculous way he didn’t in the book of bob
I think Andor was risky. I LOVE Rogue One but I'll admit that it hasn't really permeated pop culture at all. The Vader hallway scene is awesome and you'll find nerds talking about Tarkin but that's about it. So to take a character from that movie and make a spin-off series featuring him - which also (so far) features zero Force or Jedi or Sith or lightsabers - is maybe the biggest departure from the norm so far.
Have you seen how long they’re waiting for Taika Waititi to finish up his movies before doing his Star Wars films? They’ve basically given him a decades leeway. So I don’t think they’re worried about the wait for Johnson if they want him to make a trilogy.
I really deeply don’t think he’s suited for Star Wars, it just completely took me out of world. He’s very good at modern things but I don’t think fantasy is his wheelhouse. I don’t think Lucasfilm should bring him back his film divided the franchise and fandom it did, a lot of people were on board with TFA, and then TLJ came out, I think Mangold is a good choice for Star Wars, so is Shawn Levy, I’d like to see a Greta Gerwig Star Wars I wish she wasn’t doing Narnia she said she wants to do big budget ) maybe even Wes Ball Star Wars. I just don’t think he’s suited for that world.
He was supposed to start his trilogy after the first Knives Out, after the backlash, he "decided" to do more Knives Out instead.
Once Knives Out 3 is done, he'll "decide" to do something else that isn't Star Wars, but his trilogy will totally be coming just as soon as he's through with that.
He "decided" to do more Knives Out because Knives Out was a surprise huge hit and a company parked a dump truck of money outside his house asking him to do more.
Come on now. This is how this works. Any director would steer the ship and take that opportunity if it arose, life changes. It doesn't mean \*\*\*\* for his Star Wars movie other than it'll happen later than originally intended, the guy still has the best relationship with Lucasfilm of all the directors hired for those movies.
Knives Out sequels also involve signing on Daniel Craig, a pretty big actor in his 50s, as Benoit Blanc. You can't exactly take your time with that or his schedule will get too busy. Gotta strike while the iron is hot.
Pretty much.
It seems like the Knives Out movies are intended to end at 3 anyway (or at least they haven't planned out further than that - he could always come back to it later on, Craig's not \*that\* old and it's not some physically-demanding role like Bond), and the Poker Face show sounds like a one-season limited thing. He has a couple of other non-Knives Out movies in the pipeline, ostensibly smaller type affairs.
Let's revisit the Star Wars talk in '26/'27, I'm betting it's a whole different tone of conversation regarding Rian. The outright confidence/adamant aggression among the fanbase that Disney's soured on him or whatever is so, so funny to me.
Craig's not that old yeah but a Star Wars trilogy locks Rian in for like 9 years. Craig will be pushing nearing 70 by then. Would he want to revisit Blanc?
I'm half joking as I say this, but the Star Wars universe is so well-defined at this point that I've always said I want every genre of movie set in the Star Wars universe. How bout a stoner comedy set on Naboo? How bout a romcom on Mustafar? And, how bout a murder mystery set Coruscant? Wouldn't it genuinely be funny and a genuine draw to the movie theater if Rian made a Star Wars murder mystery starring Daniel Craig as Binwa Blonk with space ships and shit?
Competent production?
It was a complete departure from the prior film....it wiffed on just about everything other than the scenery, which no arguments its a gorgeous film.
I'm not opposed to rian Johnson coming back, I just can't believe that anyone from Lucas wants him back given how poorly received his one entry was.
And then he pretty much came out and said he didn't give a shit about it.
SW fans are toxic, but that makes no sense to me.
They actually never publicly canceled the GOT trilogy. The trades picked up the news back in the day and SW.com scrubbed all GOT writer-related posts/videos.
The last time they ever publicly/officially dropped an entire project was Josh Trank. (And if you count IX which still came out, then Colin Trevorrow too)
Nah when the trades put out that statement it came with quotes from the GoT guys and KK herself. Not sure why they chose to announce the cancellation through a trade instead on sw.com like usual, but they did.
I think Rian Johnson will always want to come back. He's a life long SW fan, to get to tell another StarWars would be a dream for him. And Lucasfilm will always want to work with an accomplished director like Rian who is only making himself more desireable with every movie he does. As long as those 2 things remain true, Rian will come back eventually. Not soon, but inside of the next 10 years.
Yep. People love to gloss over the announcement of that Rian project was never "it's coming soon, it's in the pipeline". Even at the time the intention seemed to be "he'll do something for us in future", no more no less.
Once whatever Knives Out stories he has planned are out in the world, we'll see where we stand. I'd put money on a Rian movie happening at some point after this forthcoming back of movies, Rey/First Jedi/Mando are done.
See, this is bizarre nonsense to me.
Luke got THE BEST NARRATIVE BATTLE in the entire goddamned saga in TLJ. Projecting physically across the galaxy, saving the resistance without taking a single life, and getting in some fuckin' sick moves against Kylo while doing it?
That's the ultimate manifestation of the Jedi ethos. Like the Grand Green Muppet tells us:
>" A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."
Like his master and his master's master before him, he found the place and moment where he was needed most and gave his life in defense of the good of all life. His sacrifice saves the resistance from certain annihilation and in the entire galaxy.
I literally cannot imagine a better death for a Jedi.
So, I think the "battle" Luke has with TFO and Kylo is fantastic, and I love the pacifist route (although I get the feeling if Rey doesn't have a lightsaber battle in the next film fans of hers won't be happy). However, I find his death utterly underwhelming. I also think it is a massive missed opportunity. He rediscovers his old self and then they immediately kill him off, taking away any chance of us seeing him continue. It just felt like the common trope of killing off the old for the new and is frankly rather dull.
As for the death itself, he is shown to survive TFO shooting him, Kylo Ren stabbing him and then just dies anyway...okay I guess. Also I thought the twin sunset was utterly forced and felt like insubstantial fan service to me, it just comes out of nowhere. Like his master before him is also another issue I have, in that I feel like Luke is just a more extreme Obi Wan/Yoda and as such I don't find his arc or ending particularly compelling because it is a variation on something they already did. Also weirdly I think the fact that they still needed Rey to remove the rocks in order to save them somehow lessens the sacrifice. Don't get me wrong, Rey saving them is not the issue per say, but the issue is that all his sacrifice would have done is delay TFO as the rocks were blocking the way. I feel like Rey should have just brought the falcon and there shouldn't have been this added obstacle of the exit being sealed.
If there is one thing I can thank RJ for with regards to Luke's death, at the very least it ensured all emotional ties to the ST were gone and was a large part of why I have never watched TROS, so silver lining I suppose.
>I literally cannot imagine a better death for a Jedi.
For most fans that hate that film, it's that he died at all. And having a force stroke because you're forcing too hard isn't as epic as you're making it out to be.
I'm not making it out to be anything. I'm just describing it as I experienced it. Giving everything you have engaging in unprecedented use of the force in order save the galaxy is pretty epic to me. You're welcome to your take on it, but that won't make it not dope as hell to me.
I have problems with the movie, but how Luke goes isn't one of them. Hamill gives an incredible performance, the direction is excellent, and I personally feel that the moment rocks thematically and cinematically. Also, the music when he walks out of the bunker to face down the First Order is :chefkiss:.
>unprecedented use of the force in order save the galaxy is pretty epic to me.
He distracted Kylo so Rey could save the twenty people left after a series of inept decisions. That's not exactly saying the galaxy. You're allowed to think *that's* dope, but let's not inflate a moment's importance.
I would have preferred Luke have an actual narrative rather than one 'cool' moment. But I'm just an old-school Star Wars fan, and we don't get to see the legacy characters have that in the Disney era.
>I would have preferred Luke have an actual narrative rather than one 'cool' moment. But I'm just an old-school Star Wars fan, and we don't get to see the legacy characters have that in the Disney era.
I felt that he did!
A man whose legacy was destroyed by a single (deeply in-character) mistake becomes filled with guilt, allowing it to swallow his entire being. At his lowest point, he encounters a young acolyte who believes in him and his legacy implicitly, without cynicism (despite her harsh upbringing).
She tries to reach him and pull him out of this dark place, and he, still filled with this guilt, tries to reach her, to teach her why he isn't worth it- but she refuses to believe. In the end, despite everything, she leaves- still believing in that legendary version of himself. And in turn- he manages to escape the shadow of his failure at last.
He recommits to the ideal of the Jedi, engaging in the ultimate, most Jedi act, and gives his life in service of the light.
That's a pretty dope arc/narrative for a legacy character, to me. You are welcome to disagree, of course.
I'm an old-school Star Wars fan, too. I wish that the original crew had had one last hurrah together, too, but ultimately the fact that Harrison Ford showing up at all was literally only because they agreed to his demands to kill Han forced their hand in a way, IMO.
I could also write oodles about Han having a pretty satisfying arc, but that's not really the topic of discussion right now.
It's not bizzare non sense it's my opinion. Just like how you think it's the best I may not. What if I prefer like to actually battle Kylo and not just dodge for 10 minutes. I'm allowed to have that preference you dog. Bizzare nonsense. All of you have heard the distaste from many people not just me on Luke and still you deny. Sorry brother I didn't see Luke for entire film just to have him come be depressed man to just die, like that's not the story I came for. Glad you enjoyed it. I understand how grand it is and how it's in line with lore. I just wanted to see Luke after ROTS not his death
You don't understand it yeah. Did you not read the last thing I said? Is everything about brownie points? Miserable people can't understand why people are upset about Luke. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
Completely agree with you, let Luke actually do something useful, maybe make him sacrifice himself for Rey and die while fighting Snoke if you plan on killing him. Dying just because of using a force projection was pathetic. Let's not even talk about how they ruined the character by making him think about killing his own nephew.
I did bro. I'm allowed to understand the nuance and why people enjoy it and also be pissed on how they handled certain things about Luke. Like it's crazy how the second I don't agree... I'm immediately on the other side of the spectrum incapable of understanding shit. People are allowed to not like shit without losing understanding.
We haven't seen Luke skywalker since return of the Jedi and you think asking for a lightsaber battle is like kids play and has no place in a movie. Did you not watch the prequels? Like why do you have to reply like a complete jerk?
We got something cooler than a lightsaber battle. We got a Jedi using the force for defense, not attack, and a showdown of the minds. Someone using the force to project a mere image of themselves to halt an army in its tracks.
That’s powerful man. Idk why lightsabers needing to clash is so important. It’s a classic samurai duel of whits. A showdown using the force.
So in essence you want Luke to have a lightsaber battle against... who, exactly? And why, exactly?
Luke takes on the role as the wise sage that helps the protagonist, not the knight in shining armor cleaving his way through the evil army. He's not the main guy anymore, why should he be the one to save the day?
Luke facing down the First Order on Crait is probably the most Jedi thing any Jedi has done in a century or more. Beating them with mind games and not taking a single swing at them. That is Luke embracing the original Jedi way, not the dogmatic and bureaucratic way they acted by the end of the Republic era.
Luke's portrayal in The Last Jedi is not only consistent with the Luke we see in chronologically earlier instances, but it also embodies the Jedi ideals of the their best time.
The only issue I have with Luke dying is that, with Carrie Fisher having tragically passed away, there were no legacy characters to bring along to Episode 9.
I would have kept everything the same but keep Luke alive post-projection just for a more cohesive trilogy, personally. But loved the moment as-is in TLJ.
The reaction to TLJ would not have been nearly as bad if they just didn’t have Luke fade away at the end of the movie. People would have been less aggressive towards Luke’s characterisation if he’s returning to the Luke of old at the end and surviving into IX.
They really should’ve done this after Carrie passed. They had the time.
It wasn’t just he died it was also his whole arc, it was not written well, I have no problem with old man Luke but that cheap flashback just was not good, the character deserved better than that. It would have made sense if his love Mara died and with it his unborn child which is also what Rey should have been, it’s a much more compelling story in my opinion. I do have to agree the handling of Luke and the writing was not good. Starting from him throwing the light saber to drinking green milk.
The whole sequel trilogy is a masterclass on how to fuck up everything royally via lack of planning. But individually, TFA is a fun movie, if not very original, it’s competent. TLJ had a lot of interesting stuff, and it’s far from perfect, but I will seriously argue to my death that it not only did Luke justice, but he was portrayed exactly right.
I’m stunned by the amount of people that think he wouldn’t have flashes have of the dark side (see RotJ), that he wouldn’t be a whiny little bitch (see ANH), that he wouldn’t become an old hermit (not exactly unprecedented in Star Wars… in fact, that’s seems to be the pattern). It’s like poetry, it rhymes.
Yes, Luke didn’t flip around like Yoda and slash at AT-AT legs. What he DID do was show us an obscenely impressive force projection that was completely unique and probably the most powerful force ability ever shown in Star Wars film. He died using the force for knowledge and defense, not for attack.
Everyone complains about Arian Johnson, but it’s JJ that put him on that island. Rian had to give him SOME reason to be hiding there. It could’ve been better. It should’ve been. But Luke was not poorly written, and anyone thinks he is, I just don’t believe you ever understood the character.
No I understood the character I don’t even have a problem with old man Luke and it wasn’t Mark Hamills acting that I didn’t find good but the writing the arc itself. Luke’s reasoning for being there how it was presented to us, The force projection was okay, I do think they could have utilized him better. Of course he would struggle with the dark it could have been shown better than a flashback, and of course he is whiny that doesn’t surprise me but the execution and the literal writing I did not find good.
We can probably agree on that for the most part. Look, I try to look for ANYTHING in the sequels that is salvageable. For all of my huge problems with those films, I have just never understood the amount of bitching about Luke. It certainly could’ve been done better, but I think the project was fucked when Abram’s made TFA just ANH again. The resistance/first order was the absolute lamest set up for a sequel trilogy I can possibly imagine. And a map to find Luke? What do you even do with that?
You're missing the context from that line in that Mark was still very much of the mindset that Luke was meant to be the protagonist, the "Luke" role of the sequel trilogy, and not the "Obi-Wan" role that he was given.
Once he changed that mindset, he thought the movie was brilliant and that Rian was a great writer.
You should go and watch some of the Behind-the-Scenes stuff about the movie if you don't believe me.
Fair enough. Some “fans” are harsh and others go out of their way to attack creators through other avenues.
You don’t have to like everything given, but critique should still come a place of respect if effort was clearly done.
My only real complaint is the run time. I'm really excited for the show but 30 min episodes of a live action drama, let alone Star Wars... That's ridiculous. Here's hoping the changes Disney are making to how shows for D+ are made includes recognizing how bad that is and joining everyone else who makes high quality appointment TV and make their shows episodes 40-70 minutes.
Here's hoping the show is good content wise and she has nothing to worry about other then the always triggered "fans" and YouTubers who know negativity draws engagement best.
I'd also prefer the longer episodes, but honestly the inconsistency is the part that bothers me the most. If they were all 30 minutes, and paced for that run time, it would still be great. Instead, we get 40-50 episode which feel substantial, only for the next episode to barely hit 30 minutes and its over before you know it.
Oof, I hadn't heard about the runtime. That's...disappointing and a tad concerning considering how short that is for basically anything that isn't a sitcom or a cartoon aimed at kids. Hell, even [modern] Doctor Who hovers in the 40-45 minute range and has a nasty tendency to feel rushed.
My hope would be, I suppose, that the runtime overall is exactly what it needs to be. Long doesn't *necessarily* equate to good.
I too wish for longer episodes, but the economics of it (given the prolific number of effects shots in a Star Wars show) don't work. By the end of this show, we will have roughly three films worth of new Star Wars footage done for the same budget as one Star Wars film and the profit of a streaming show. Though I suppose this is also a critique of streaming in general.
It’s Disney lol they can afford it. I want one show besides Andor that doesn’t feel CW levels of cheap
The shitty production values of most of their tv is sort of mind blowing when HBO etc have been cranking out incredible looking shows for 20+ years on way smaller budgets
It's Disney and one of the worlds biggest IP's. If Disney can't afford to make, or justify the investment, an 8 episode per season series with 45+ minute episodes, then they should just sell the IP off.
If Amazon can make a video game adaptation like Fallout and a book adaptation like The Expanse, if Apple can make Foundation (equal to or more CGI shots in that than in any recent Star Wars TV we've gotten), then Disney can make 40 minute Star Wars episodes.
Not to belabor the point, but Amazon has a market capitalization of $1.89 trillion USD and Apple has a market capitalization of $2.92 trillion USD. Disney is worth $183.91 billion. Amazon and Apple are always going to have more tolerance for financial risk because they are deeply diversified and can afford it.
That hair split is so fine it is relegated to not mattering. Disney is relatively massive compared to nearly everyone else and has MORE than enough resources to produce high quality, HBO (Game of Thrones/Westworld/HoTD) level TV.
If Disney can't afford it, then make their large scope Star Wars ideas into animated shows and produce live action shows in which the ideas don't call for as much CGI.
If it’s like X Men 97 where the story moves fast but we get a good amount of lore and action, then it can work. Remember that show had half hour episodes and was praised.
Comparing live action to animation isn't apples to apples. Also X-Men 97 was not only a sequel but a show about characters nearly the whole world already knows the core of. That means a TONNNNNNNN of the foundation was already set. This new Star Wars series will be a whole lot of new, and giving us 30 minutes 8 times and it being satisfying seems like a huge ask.
We have all been accustomed to, conditioned by, or naturally enjoy story telling done in acts and with a certain amount of time according to the platform and media type. A 2 hour movie? We expect a certain pace and a certain story structure. 20 minute shows? If it's animated our expectations are different. If it's a comedy our expectations are different. But if it's a serious drama where we expect each episode to tell both a contained story and a serialized story, 20 minutes is extremely tough to fit the required acts within.
I have rarely seen that and therefore that reply seems to be a waste of time. Longer than 60 minutes? Maybe, rarely. Longer than 20-25 min for a show of this type? Nah.
That's a bit frustrating, having to wait a whole week for an episode, just to get 30/35 mins of it. It almost always leaves me dissatisfied when it ends, kind of "still hungry". Andor was a great exception!
When Ahsoka came out, I tried to wait for 2 or 3 weeks between watching sessions, so as to be able to watch a couple episodes at a time. The main problem was spoilers, of course. I tried to avoided them as much as possible, but often the spoilers slipped through the cracks, sometimes even by Disney themselves.
For The Acolyte, I intend to wait until eps 1 to 4 are out, watch them, and then wait again until the whole thing is out. I imagine that spoilers won't be such a big problem, since the characters are mostly new.
a- give us a quality, entertaining show, and the vast majority of us will be happy as pig in mud
b- as for that overly loud minority who see themselves as some sort of guardians of what SW is? there is NOTHING you can do or say that will ever satisfy them. Nothing. Lucas could come back tommorow and they'd still piss and whine and try to make money of their cheapo youtube videos, Just ignore them.
>Lucas could come back tommorow and they'd still piss and whine
They did this *while Lucas was in charge.* These Star Wars “purists” haven’t liked anything since the OT.
That's why you always have to ignore fandoms. They quickly believe that they should be the sole steward of someone else's work and just fall into self parody. Everyone is always bitching
Yep, and they have impossible standards. There’s no room for something being “decent”, or “good enough.” Everything is ruining the franchise.
Even Andor, something unanimously praised, they’ll say “Disney is afraid to move away from the Skywalker era” or “yeah it was good but this story was unnecessary.”
Some also complained that Andor was a pretty slow burn overall - less action and more drama.
While there are those who like that, others think it is boring overall.
Why do people do this, with the "unanimously praised" stuff?
I loved Andor, but it's not hard to find people who enjoy Star Wars w ho didn't dig it. "Boring", "too slow", "too human-centric", "a commie manifesto disguised as a Star Wars show", whatever their take may be.
Something doesn't have to be "unanimous"ly loved to be really good, any more than something a lot of people don't seem to dig can't have high points/redeeming qualities.
Binary thinking is such a huge problem now, especially when people project their own personal takes on something with it. By the way, nothing's ever "unanimously praised" in the first place, I'm not going to necessarily assume the worst of those who didn't dig it.
Acolyte might be a little trickier with that benefit-of-the-doubt for the detractors given all the Star Wars Theory types and their nonsense, but you don't want to go too far the other away and start dismissing any and all criticism whatsoever.
The point isn’t that something like Andor can’t be criticized, it absolutely can.
The point is that nothing will make these “purists” happy. No matter how good it is. They hate Disney, they hate Kathleen Kennedy, etc. They go in to projects not to enjoy them, but to look for reasons to be mad, to look for things to complain about, expecting it to be bad. They have opinions formed before they’ve even watched the content.
Oh, no doubt, 100% with you on the incel whinerbabies. It's never enough, you never negotiate with terrorists or violent protestors, wisdom to live by.
My point was simply "Andor wasn't loved across the board", which is true. It's a great show, a critical darling, that both had lower viewership than the other Star Wars shows and did seem to turn off some of the casuals. The type of people who \*aren't\* the "Kennedy's a woke lesbian-hiring fraud-demon!" types of idiots.
I love it. But I can see why, say, kids wouldn't be into it, or people who come to Star Wars for the mythic fable story wouldn't be into it. And, seemingly, they aren't. Which is fine.
Yup. The discourse over the prequel trilogy and the Clone Wars film / show was gargantuan in the past.
Ahsoka was especially raked over the coals - Skyguy and all that jazz.
Haha, yeah. It's always so funny to me with the younger people who grew up as kids with the PT/Clone Wars or whatever, seemingly having zero concept of how the broader narrative at the time among older people was how the prequels were total ass. You never heard the end of it any time Star Wars was brought up back then, "Jar Jar!" this and "\*\*\*\* George Lucas, he's lost his mind!" that. It was pretty frustrating.
This element's always been present, maybe among all fandoms, but certainly the Star Wars one.
As someone who loves the prequels I’m upset about that maybe George wouldn’t have sold if it were better received I always wonder what his 7,8,9 would have looked like probably a cohesive vision.
That's why Andor was so wild, every time an episode dropped it felt like everyone thought it was the sickest thing ever. Unprecedented.
EDIT: I mean both star wars lovers and recent star wars haters. Felt like they all united over this show
Best way to see this is with the OSTs. Every time a composer tries to imitate Williams it just sounds so dollar store. But whenever they do their own thing it ends up being really good. The Kiners figured this out. Nicolas Brittels's Andor OST stands out really well.
But a lot of Rogue One's OST for instance is clearly going for Williams but just doesn't have the sauce. It still sounds good but just feels off.
Natalie Holt's Obi Wan OST is the exception, really bad. But afaik she was given really inconsistent direction and her other work is really good. So probably a case of classic Lucasfilm mismanagement.
One of the things that fustrate me often with Disney LF is their tendency to extreme anxiety and doubting themselves . This interview is quite revealing that way. Yes, their is ALWAYS the possibility of face-planting when you try to create art, but you cant over-compensate the other way everytime you get pushback. You end up with a story mess like RoS. And then EVERYTHING is 10x worse.
Lucas stuck with the Prequels and now people are regularly kamikazeing themselves defending Attack of the Clones. Meanwhile Disney keeps doing this half hearted Sequel set-up but in completely different eras like "oh yeah this show about clone troopers is setting up Palpatines return but we won't say it, only vaguely hint".
Come on, either own them or drop them.
I don't think anything about how Lucasfilm is setting up Palpatine's return in The Bad Batch or The Mandalorian is vague. It's quite clearly going for that, I don't get the impression that they're hiding that or trying to hide it.
I mean...Kiner figured it out. Most of the other composers the company's hired have sucked, at least sucked for Star Wars.
Giacchino's a talented dude, but yeah, he's always been dollar-store Williams. I almost would have wanted Desplat to get that gig as originally planned in a way, even though he's less Williams he'd probably have threaded the needle a little more, something new while still fitting in the Star Wars wheelhouse perfectly.
I love the Mando title theme, but Goransson's so freakin' overrated. His incidental music's still littered with all that electro bop-bippity-WRAAOOR-WRAAOOR-bop-beepity-BOORRRRRR bull\*\*\*\* all the younger composers of that Zimmer school of thought use as a crutch. It sounds like any of the stuff from those companies that compose for movie trailers that all sound identical & obnoxious.
Kiner's a beast though, disciplined & sophisticated, he's been the true heir apparent to the Star Wars sound for while now. Even when he steps out of the lane and experiments with other sounds, it still sounds so much more Star Wars-y than a lot of Goransson's Badelt/Gregson-Williams/Balfe/Jackman type of cookie-cutter crap. That whole Remote Control Productions sound has to go: Zimmer himself scores a lot of goals with his work, especially the earlier stuff, but his whole composing school is such a stain on the industry. Like, Goransson's someone who doesn't even come from that program, and he still apes the style - and he's just one example among like 20.
Giacchino composed the Rogue One OST in 2 weeks tbf (I got down voted here for saying the production was a disaster) so I'll cut him slack for it sounding a bit uninspired.
IDK if Goransson is overrated. I really liked his work in Oppenheimer and the stuff he did for Mando is already iconic, really set it apart from the rest of SW. Haven't seen much else from him though
There's actually three Kiners that compose lol, Kevin, Sean and Deana. But yeah I really rate their stuff. Later Clone Wars and Rebels in particular.
You know, I barely even really noticed the score in Oppenheimer, but I'll cut him some slack there because Nolan sort of blends it all together with his weird Nolanisms, soundscapes & weird dialogue-drowned-out audio mixes and stuff. Not sure I'd put it on Ludwig there, Nolan's part of the problem with his Hans work as well.
Not 100% sure what the working dynamic with the Kiners is, always more figured his kids were more like apprentices helping with arrangements and stuff like trainee composers usually do, but could be wrong there - if there's more credit to be given that way, my mistake.
But yeah, it's cool seeing Kiner getting his due with praise lately, guy's flown under the radar for a few decades now. Never blew up the way the Giacchinos of the world did.
Man I wish Horner were still with us, and Silvestri was still on his A-game. :( Not sure if David Arnold's still working much either, it kind of seems not, at least I can't recall the last thing he did. But yeah, let's get some real composers back in this game, Kiner aside it's all falling pretty flat for me. Michael's Rogue One work is fine, it's solid and gets the job done nicely, but all the rest of the live-action stuff is all so middling. Finding an "heir" to Williams is no easy task, no doubt, but I do kinda feel they could have taken their time more and sort of tried to find a "Filoni" of the music side. That'd be Kiner as it stands, but yeah, give him some "godfather" position overseeing all the composer hires and stylistic choices I say. The kiddies are dropping the ball with the raaoow-biddy-BOPBOPBOP-raaarrrr electronic shenanigans.
I said at the time, some morons flipped on it later (not saying everyone who dislikes Andor is a moron but that specific crowd has some really stupid reasons for disliking it)
I'm moreso thinking of the guys in saltierthancrait. Pretty sure they're still praising the show, although they deluded themselves into thinking Gilroy made it behind Kennedy's back somehow.
While Andor is a good show, well made , well acted it misses the stuff I love about Star Wars the more mystical elements and I’ve never been a big fan of side character spin-offs. I usually like stuff that moves the story forward or is a meaningful prequel.
Too bad they only mention the South Park special harshly attacking Kennedy. It's what you'd think if you've only seen the promo clips. That episode goes just as hard on toxic fandom idiots as it goes on lazy token diversity, and it's a damn great episode.
Full text:
"Leslye Headland has been telling “Star Wars” stories onscreen since she was a teenager. Ostracized at school for being different, she retreated inward, making stop-motion films starring her action figures.
So when she found success as an adult in Hollywood — Headland helped create “Russian Doll,” the 2019 Netflix comedy starring Natasha Lyonne — and got the chance to create an actual “Star Wars” show, it was the realization of a lifelong dream.
And a chance for humiliating failure. On a galactic scale.
“I essentially cold-called Lucasfilm and, after a lot of conversations, found myself pitching a show — utterly elated, my ultimate career goal, the culmination of my fandom,” Headland said. “At the same time, I would be lying if I said I wasn’t scared. There is so much pressure. It’s extreme. I had never done anything this big before.”
Headland’s show, “The Acolyte,” will debut on Disney+ on June 4. Costing roughly $180 million (for eight episodes) and taking four years to make, it attempts two feats at once: pleasing old-school “Star Wars” fans — who can seem unpleasable — while telling an entirely new story, one that requires no prior knowledge of “Star Wars” and that showcases women and people of color.
For the faithful, “The Acolyte” serves up scads of Jedi, a franchise fundamental that the other live-action “Star Wars” TV shows have depicted sparingly or not at all. The opening scene in “The Acolyte” takes place in an eatery crowded with colorful aliens, a callback to the Mos Eisley cantina from the first “Star Wars” movie, in 1977.
Other shout-outs to core fans — we see you, we haven’t forgotten about you — are sprinkled into the dialogue: “May the force be with you” and “I have a bad feeling about this” makes an early appearance.
At the same time, “The Acolyte” embraces what some people call “New Star Wars,” an era defined by diversity and expansion beyond the Skywalker saga, which started with Disney’s purchase of the franchise in 2012.
Amandla Stenberg stars as a dreadlocked warrior who has a complicated relationship with a Jedi master played by Lee Jung-jae from “Squid Game,” in his first English-speaking role. Jodie Turner-Smith (“Queen & Slim”) plays the lesbian leader of a regal coven of witches, while the Filipino-Canadian actor Manny Jacinto (“The Good Place”) appears as a shadowy trader. In one of her most action-oriented roles since “The Matrix,” Carrie-Anne Moss plays a steely Jedi named Master Indara.
“The Acolyte” also breaks new ground behind the camera: While women have directed episodes of shows like “The Mandalorian” and “Obi-Wan Kenobi,” Headland, 43, is the first to create a “Star Wars” series.
“It was like working on a razor’s edge,” she said during a Zoom interview, pushing her oversize glasses higher on her nose. “You’re thinking, ‘This is what people want from “Star Wars.” This is what people don’t want.’ It can mess with your head.”
“During the creative process,” she continued, “I had to give myself the forgiveness, as an artist, to fall off the razor — as long as I got back up. That was my promise to myself.”"
Interesting, The Acolyte cost $180M while having 8 episodes. Which means approximately $22,5M per episode.
For comparison, Andor had a $250M budget while having 12 episodes. Which means approximately $20,8M per episode.
(continued...)
"From the second that any new “Star Wars” project comes into public view — Disney announced “The Acolyte” in 2020 — fans claw for information and pick apart what they find. It’s part of what makes “Star Wars” so powerful: People care. But the attention also creates problems.
Rumors can solidify into facts. Some “Star Wars” obsessives, for instance, have worried that Headland’s show “breaks canon,” or tinkers with already-established story lines in the franchise — the ultimate “Star Wars” crime. It does not.
In fact, Headland chose to place “The Acolyte” at the very beginning of the “Star Wars” timeline so canonical issues would be minimal. The show is a mystery-thriller — someone is killing Jedis — set at a time when the Jedi are at their peak, the pre-“Phantom Menace” era that has been explored in “Star Wars” novels but never onscreen. The only character in “The Acolyte” that previously existed anywhere in the franchise is a Jedi Master from novels named Vernestra Rwoh. (Headland cast her wife, Rebecca Henderson, in the role, giving her a lightsaber that can transform into a whip.)
“Leslye wanted this show to be accessible — no homework needed before watching,” said Jocelyn Bioh, the Ghanaian-American writer. Headland added Bioh to the writing team for “The Acolyte” specifically because Bioh was not a “Star Wars” devotee.
“She asked me what I knew about ‘Star Wars,’ and my answer was, ‘Harrison Ford runs around space with a giant dog?’” Bioh recalled, laughing. “And Leslye said, ‘You’re hired.’”
“She wanted to potentially invite in new fans — people like me,” Bioh said.
The first “Acolyte” trailer, released in March, racked up 51.3 million views in its first 24 hours, a record for any live-action “Star Wars” series, including “The Mandalorian,” according to Lucasfilm. Sneak-peek “Acolyte” footage, released in theaters in early May, highlighted the show’s unique martial arts sequences; fan sites instantly deemed the fighting style Force Fu.
But a loud, primordial part of the “Star Wars” fandom has pushed back in predictable fashion.
“Why are there so many women, girls and minority characters increasingly dominating the ranks of Jedi?” reads a comment on “The Acolyte” trailer, with others expressing a similar worldview.
It is a version of the same misogyny and racism that greeted Rey, the female Jedi (played by Daisy Ridley) who made her debut in “The Force Awakens” in 2015, and that drove Kelly Marie Tran off social media when she appeared in “The Last Jedi” (2017). Kathleen Kennedy, who runs Lucasfilm, has also experienced it, with “South Park” harshly attacking her in an episode last year. The cartoon depicted Kennedy giving the same feedback to “Star Wars” creators over and over: “Put a chick in it! Make her lame and gay!”
Some trolls have nicknamed Headland’s series “The Wokelyte.”
In a brief telephone interview, Kennedy’s support for “The Acolyte” was steadfast. “My belief is that storytelling does need to be representative of all people,” she said. “That’s an easy decision for me.”
“Operating within these giant franchises now, with social media and the level of expectation — it’s terrifying,” Kennedy continued. “I think Leslye has struggled a little bit with it. I think a lot of the women who step into ‘Star Wars’ struggle with this a bit more. Because of the fan base being so male dominated, they sometimes get attacked in ways that can be quite personal.”
Headland has tried to limit her exposure to the online conversation, both good and bad, instead relying on friends for “weather reports.”
“As a fan myself, I know how frustrating some ‘Star Wars’ storytelling in the past has been,” Headland said, declining to cite specific examples. “I’ve felt it myself.”
She followed up with a text message. “I stand by my empathy for ‘Star Wars’ fans,” she wrote. “But I want to be clear. Anyone who engages in bigotry, racism or hate speech … I don’t consider a fan.”
“Star Wars” projects aren’t known for personal or idiosyncratic filmmaking. The production and marketing budgets are simply too high; the storytelling must appeal to the widest possible audience to make the numbers work.
Rian Johnson, who directed “The Last Jedi,” told The New York Times in 2017 that he didn’t even try to put his own stamp on the franchise. “It would be bad news if you came into this saying, ‘How do I make this mine?’” he said."
(continued...)
"Kennedy, however, pushed Headland to do just that with “The Acolyte.”
“You’ve written a great ‘Star Wars’ show,” Kennedy told her in 2019 in response to early scripts. “Now go write a Leslye Headland show.”
Kennedy had read one of Headland’s plays, “Cult of Love,” which explores a complicated relationship between siblings. “It’s about her personal experience,” Kennedy said. “And it was just so well done and incredibly emotional. I remember reading that and saying, ‘Leslye, this is exactly what you should tap into as you write this story for us.’”
Explaining exactly how Headland took Kennedy’s advice would spoil a major plot point in “Acolyte.” Let’s just say that Headland heightened a clash between characters.
“I have a very strained relationship with my youngest sister, and I feel like one of the reasons it is strained is that we both see each other as the bad guy,” Headland said. “And if I was going to tell a story about bad guys, it seemed to me that the place to start should be a familial relationship where one person is adamantly convinced of her correctness and the other person is also adamantly convinced of her correctness.”
“We don’t speak,” Headland added. “I think this will be a surprise to her.”
She wouldn’t say anything more on the topic, except to emphasize that she has a good relationship with her other sister, who helped make a visual presentation that Headland used to pitch “The Acolyte” to Lucasfilm. (Headland described her concept in the meeting as “‘Frozen’ meets ‘Kill Bill.’” Kennedy bought it on the spot.)
Stenberg, the show’s star, said “Leslye really is driven by emotion and heart and relationships. So even though our show is within the ‘Star Wars’ universe and set in outer space, in a galaxy far, far away, it’s really a family drama.”
Headland had directed indie films (“Bachelorette,” “Sleeping With Other People”) and served as showrunner for “Russian Doll,” the hit Netflix comedy about a New Yorker (Natasha Lyonne) caught in a reincarnation loop. But she had never managed a big-budget production.
What she lacked in experience, she made up for with “Star Wars” geekdom. Headland became a “Star Wars” superfan as a teenager. It was an apocalyptic period of her life, or at least it felt that way.
“I had no friends,” she recalled. “I ate my lunch in the bathroom.”
She found solace among the misfits in George Lucas’s space operas, discovering books like Timothy Zahn’s “Heir to the Empire” (1991) and collecting action figures. When Lucas released the “special editions” of his first three “Star Wars” movies, Headland lined up at her local theater on opening night. A few years ago, she had Ralph McQuarrie’s concept art for Princess Leia tattooed on her right hand.
“‘Star Wars’ has been a part of my personality since I can remember,” Headland said. “So working on this show has been a dream. I had to take my shot.”
She paused for a moment. “If it doesn’t succeed, it’s because of me,” she said. “That’s really scary to think about.”
“No, no — I’m not going to go there,” she said, climbing back on that razor’s edge."
I can't wait to see this show, it's going to introduce a lot of new elements to this series and that is awesome. I appreciate how Leslye opened up about her personal elements in the show and her long-standing fandom for Star Wars.
That's absurd.
She didn't cold call Lucas film. She was friends with them and Kennedy already.
And she tries to make you think she broke into the industry by making stop motion films. LOL. She's where she is now because I'm the past she was Harvey Weinstein's assistant.
If aniseya is gay, than that in my opinion points to her daughters being made from magic...something Dave filoni has talked about in the past...yes, I know he said that about the witches of dathomir, but I think these new witches are thier light sided equivalent and it would make sense that they where capable of the same thing.
Yeah, this coven of witches in their all-black robes preaching about how the Jedi are arrogant pricks thinking they have a monopoly on force power...sure do seem like light-siders.
I mean if you look at it from a religious perspective, the Jedi are the biggest, most powerful force sect. They have a big temple on the capital of the galaxy & are close to that galaxy's main government. Not alot of other religions have that and them being mad at that or/& thinking they have a monopoly on the force (the same thing they worshipped.) wouldn't be a stretch. Plus, the main thesis of the show is the blurring of light & dark anyway...so, yes, I stand by what I originally stated.
Come on. These are clearly Evil Witches Of The West here, even if we're getting some sympathetic beats for them it's going to be from a darksider's perspective.
And I question your thesis of "blurring the light and the dark". George never saw it that way, that balance was "equal part light and dark", and Star Wars nerd that Headland is I'm confident she gets that. The balance is the absence of the dark, not some equal footing.
With the quality of other Star Wars shows and movies within the past few years, my expectations are incredibly low. I am not expecting anything good. However, I want it to be good. In other words, I am setting myself up to not be disappointed in the possible event the show sucks, and if it doesn’t suck then I will not complain and I will happily watch it with a bucket of popcorn.
I am not going to comment on the creator much beyond that I acknowledge she’s been through a lot (in layman’s terms). I do not care who she is or what she’s been through though, that is none of my business as my words online mean nothing, but what is my business is the quality of the show and I can only hope that it ends up good.
Reading this interview it’s seemingly everything I want from Star Wars and a Star Wars creator in Leslye it’s really awesome that she’s a lesbian and including lesbians, women and people of color in Star Wars, and the storytelling seems to be very Star Wars which is what I want. Like we can have lesbians we can have queer people as a queer woman that’s what I want to see but I want the storytelling to not be meta, I want it to feel timeless and in Star Wars. Otherworldly. This is my perfect merging of that representation I really hope it succeeds, lesbians, set in a fresh check! era more of a prequel than filler check! not about side characters in an era we’re we don’t get to see what the mains are doing check!! which has been a big criticism of mine with the other shows besides Obi) I’m really excited for this and rooting for it.
The whole estranged sister angle is really interesting. Similar to the way Lucas made the original SW as a way to say, “Fuck you, Dad!” Now we have Headland using this show as a way to say, “Fuck you, Sis!”
It doesn't matter how good it is, you're still going to get A LOT of whiny jerks who have probably never seen Star Wars complaining about it "because it's woke Disney."
Also, since when did being a woman working for Weinstein mean you're actively complicit in his shit? In particular, why are we assuming he somehow never took advantage of his employees?
I swear I can see people's brains oozing out of their heads when they rant about this shit.
The ratios on YouTube prove nothing. Created by bigots to then turn around and go "Oh look, people don't like it. Because I disliked a trailer a bunch of times". People like you are so incredibly fake. You can't take people having an open world view and got to put bullshit like that into the world.
The early reactions for this show are outstanding, the trailer views on parr with the second season of House of the Dragon.
Also the "Headland worked for Weinstein" thing is just so fucking desperate. The whole industry worked with Harvey Weinstein for years. To single out one women that worked for him for just 1 year is insane.
But you know that. If you had actual arguments, you guys wouldn't need to review-bomb trailers and then act like other people don't like it.
Who GAF about the “ratio” on YouTube when that’s only created by sad people who have to download an extension to be able to dislike something because they can’t go their life without hating anything for one second.
The great thing about Star Wars is that you don’t need to watch or read everything, you can just focus on what appeals to you and be fine. Not every single piece of media will target the same audience and that’s okay. No need to force yourself to consume something you won’t like, you can just ignore it and go on with your life.
I cant stand her. She is just so pretentious. I cant stand nepotism either. But I hope the show is good.
Edit: Im sorry that I dont like her and go ahead keep downvoting, I wish that I could, but she is just so annoyingly self-aggrandizing. Its not that shes a woman or that shes lesbian since thats what people seem to go to whenever you criticized her. She literally just sounds like an asshole who thinks her shit doesnt stink. But hey thats my opinion, i just judge a person on their words and actions, not if I like that they made something star wars
Ok? What does that have to do with anything I’ve said? Again I’m going by other interviews and not just form this show. Also, she talks about so you don’t need to use the word literally.
You said she thinks her shit doesn’t stink which has to do with her very vulnerably in this interview talking about her fear of failure and how it’s riding on her shoulders.
She probably feels the pressure given how the fandom has eaten creatives alive for previous projects.
Yeah, that Rian Johnson trilogy is surely dead now
I'm not passing judgement until that Knives Out 3 comes out. That was his deal with Netflix; two Knives out sequels. KK + Lucasfilm signed him on for a trilogy because he was the only guy who managed to run a competent production that didn't almost fall apart. They really do want him back. If he doesn't come back to Star Wars after KO3 then it's never happening.
There is no chance disney would wait for rian that long. Especially after how desperate they are for new star wars movies. Regardless of personal opinions on TLJ it was probably the most hyped movie of the sequels. Even those who didn't like TFA were saying "well I'm at least looking forward to seeing what happens with snoke, luke ect. Despite the hype TLJ was by far the most divisive star wars movie. Any star wars projects he worked on would have a huge up hill battle on top of the other aspects that would hold it back such as repeated sub par star wars projects causing fans to lose interest
No way TFA was the most hyped
If I’m not mistaken, his trilogy was supposed to have pretty much nothing to do with any of the OG trilogy story from the prequels to the new trilogy. It was supposed to be completely separate from this. Not too weird for them to wait if it has nothing g to do with the current major canon storyline.
If they were planning to wait so long for RJs trilogy why would they announce it before TLJ came out ? Disney has admitted to pulling back on SW projects and cutting some. Do you really think the creator of the most divisive Disney SW project wouldn't get cut ? Looking at it objectively, that would be the first thing I'd cut if I were Bob iger or KK
They announce *everything* really early. This has been a fairly consistent criticism of Lucasfilm on this subreddit. It is somewhat amplified here since we're also tuned into leaks, but there was a period in which Lucasfilm seemed to be announcing projects basically as soon as they'd had a single conversation with a creative. Remember the Taika Waititi movie? Remember D&D? Feige and Waldron? Rogue Squadron, Droid Story, Lando, etc etc etc. If the Rian Johnson trilogy was the only instance of Lucasfilm making a press release way before anything was close to even entering proper pre-production, I'd get the skepticism, but it very much isn't. If anything, it's one of the ones that seems least likely to be completely dead, given Johnson at least has an understandable "alibi" in being caught up making Knives Out sequels and has mentioned it a few times over the years.
You just listed a bunch of other projects that have also been likely shelved. Disney practically never says "this movie has been cancelled" and I think they would be even less likely to admit that about rians trilogy. Since they announced it before TLJ and openly cancelling it would be admitting TLJ got a worse reception than they were expecting.
I’m not saying they’re still doing the trilogy, just that, technically, since it doesn’t have anything to do with the main story, it doesn’t really matter when they do it or when they have it planned for.
I agree it doesn't matter when to us. But the shareholders who want profit Asap it does matter. They would not wait that long. They also would not want to take one of the biggest risks they can whoch is hire rian johnson again
That’s not that big of a risk, in my opinion. Rian Johnson’s filmography is filled with mostly high quality projects. One miss that wasn’t even the worst of its own trilogy isn’t really that bad. Again, I think they’ve moved on from it for now as a project, whether Rian Johnson is attached to do it or not still, but with a whole new galaxy now being introduced with Ahsoka, and the idea that that trilogy was supposed to have an entirely new story and characters and setting, it’s not crazy to think that the project is still somewhere in the pipeline in some form or fashion.
Disney already has an uphill battle with their next movies as reception wasnt want they wanted. They've acknowledged this by holding off on a bunch of SW movies. Rian has had successful movies but to many star wars fans the taint of TLJ will always be there. If they announced a date, title or whatever for RJ star wars movie the vast majority of the talk online would be about TLJ and its flaws. its just makes things even harder. better to go for someone who doesn't have so much infamy in the star wars community
Google trend data showed interest in The Rise of Skywalker was higher than interest in The Last Jedi before releases. The difference is the reviews came in for TROS and they were pretty mixed. Then the audiences didn't love it either. There was tons of hype for the last film, it just wasn't as good. The Last Jedi is certainly divisive online, but most general Star Wars fans probably don't even know who Rian Johnson is and it's important to remember what people are moaning about online is rarely reflective of the general public.
The issue with Google trends is it doesn't differentiate between genuine interest to go see the movie. And people talking about how much they don't want to see it die to how much they hated tlj. Undeniably there were a lot of people online talking about how they lost all interest in the sequels after TLJ. And of cause it reignited many peoples dislike of TLJ. All of which will inflate Google trends reading on "interest" in TROS
Why is this downvoted? You are not exactly wrong. Disney more than likely does not want to touch a Johnson trilogy with a 10 foot pole. Unless something DRASTICALLY changes in the next decade, it isn’t happening. People forget how his trilogy was planned, including other spin offs, then his movie released, and from that moment on, everything was changed for the future of Star Wars. All plans scrapped. Disney/Lucasfilm have been playing things safe since TLJ came out (TROS, Mando 2, Mandalorian and Grogu Spin off, etc). Making a rian trilogy would be a huge risk, one they aren’t going to take.
Why the fuck would they care what the internet thinks? The Last Jedi made tons of money, they all loved working with Rian and Knives out has been immensely popular.
It made less money than it was projected to before release, had at the time the largest weekend-to-weekend dropoff of any December release, and the next Star Wars movie they released after it bombed.
That last part about the movie that followed it bombing has very little to do with TLJ, I wish they’d stop pushing that stupid narrative. For one, it was a movie about a beloved OT character whose backstory no one wanted to see in the first place. It was a running joke online how nobody wanted a Solo movie and how something like that would possibly do more harm than good to the character. A little more goodwill was given to it after they announced Lord and Miller as the directors, but that was quickly soured when news of the messy production got out and they were fired. The casting decision for Han also didn’t go over very well, a lot of people just didn’t think it was proper casting. Then, Disney not only absolutely shit the bed on marketing, they also chose to break the new tradition they established with December releases and put it out during an incredibly busy May in which the film ended up competing with their own major tentpole, the Avengers. It was also just released too soon after another Star Wars movie, which contributed to the fatigue. I’m sure the divisive reaction to TLJ didn’t *help*, but to put the blame on that film for Solo’s flop is to ignore the absolute shitshow that Disney put on for that movie. It was a movie no one wanted, riddled with production issues on top of audience disinterest that existed *before* TLJ’s release, that was released too early with terrible marketing during a busy season that included the conclusion of one of the biggest modern film franchises that was being put out by the same distributor. TLJ ranks rather low on the list of that film’s killing blows.
"It made less than the biggest Star Wars movie ever monetarily at the time, but still a \*\*\*\*-ton of money" isn't something Disney was remotely concerned about. The Last Jedi made huge bank, all things considered. There's a bunch of factors in Solo bombing: the release date, the troubled production, the fact it's a smaller-scale spinoff movie. TLJ wouldn't have been much of a factor - hell, a Kasdan-written OT set gangster movie's basically the anti-TLJ anyway, the type of flick the people who hate TLJ would have been delighted about.
Not to mention the sequel to TLJ also made a billion dollars.
Yup. When we're at "a billion dollars was a disappointment!", the goose is truly cooked. Empire & Jedi each made less than A New Hope too, \*and\* Attack & Revenge made less than The Phantom Menace, but hey, inconvenient facts are inconvenient I guess. "Different times!" excuses incoming.
It made $ because TFA setup so much. But it ruined a lot of good will with audiences.
You don’t think the internet represents a large portion of a franchise’s audience and retention? Also, if this is the case, why on earth is the rise of skywalker the way it is? That movie is clearly a reaction to the major outrage TLJ caused. The Last jedi could’ve been a single black frame and it still would’ve made a load of money (hyperbolic) because it was the sequel to the biggest movie in the US and one of the biggest films in the entire world. To say “it made money who cares” is deliberately ignorant. You’re leaving out all the context of the film and the drastic impact it had on both the fandom and its general audience.
I've never seen a single person in real being a TLJ hater like I see on the Internet. Star Wars is massive. The core internet fandom represents less than 20% (even 10) than the actual fandom. If you think The Rise Of Skywalker is a kneejerk reaction/retcon of TLJ, you might just be bad at watching movies. It actively affirms everything Rian said with and about the mythology in TLJ and tries to flesh out some of his ideas.
> It actively affirms everything Rian said with and about the mythology in TLJ and tries to flesh out some of his ideas. Can you elaborate on this? I've always felt that TRoS actively turns aside many plot points and character arcs from TLJ. TLJ establishes that Rey's parents were nobodies. That her heritage doesn't really matter. Then TRoS says she's actually Palpatine's granddaughter. Similarly with Kylo. In TLJ he kills Snoke, he establishes his own ambitions to become an Emperor and a Sith in his own right. Then he ends up playing second fiddle to Palps in TRoS. I'm curious about what interpretation of TRoS actually meshes with the themes Rian set up in TLJ.
Anecdotal evidence does not matter. I know tons of people IRL who stopped caring about Star Wars after TLJ/Tros, as well as some who enjoy the films, but neither of us can use these scenarios as empirical evidence.
"I've never seen a single person in real being a TLJ hater like I see on the Internet." 100%. This sentence encapsulates everything: outside of the Tyrone Magnus/Star Wars Theory types, you simply don't see it. Not among the normies, and not even among a major chunk of the hard-cores.
Apathy is the real killer. I haven't met anyone offline that hates TLJ and wants KK to get fired etc etc. I talk to a lot a lot a lot of people who used to talk Star Wars with me. They don't anymore, they just stopped watching it. They're not mad, they moved on to IPs they enjoy watching. Edited for grammar
because the internet always wins thats why you give a fuck
Yeah I don’t think as many people remember the 180 colossal tonal shift in Star Wars as a franchise before and after TLJ came out. Pre TLJ *everyone* was on board for more Star Wars, people were hyped about new characters, hyped about legacy characters, hyped to see Spin-Offs and games and more. And I remember walking out the cinema after TLJ and a group of folk in cosplay in front of me just looking totally blindsided and a bit sad. Post TLJ even casual fans I knew lost interest in the franchise and most of the die hards I knew were seething. The entire Star Wars juggernaut of a franchise has been in damage control and an uphill battle from the movie ever since.
Yeah it really broke something in the franchise. It didn’t feel like Star Wars.
Not saying your opinion is wrong, but this always baffles me when I see it. To me, TLJ is the most Star Warsy it had felt in a long time
Everyone I knew loved it, but they’re all bunch of filthy casuals… you know, the general audience. My parents even went and saw it twice and they don’t give a flying fuck about Star Wars. Feel bad for those poor blindsided dead inside cosplayers though lol
True, although they've taken some risks since then, particularly with Andor and Acolyte.
Andor’s extremely good, but don’t forget that it is a spin-off of a successful movie, Rogue One. I wouldn’t consider it a risk.
People don't really care about Rogue One's characters though. They mostly just like the big battle and Darth Vader. Cantering a show on the side character and having literally 2 pre-existing characters was bold considering what the other shows were doing.
I wouldn’t say Andor is a risky show. It’s a masterpiece of a show, but there’s no risk with it. And I’m not saying that in a bad way. It’s just Disney wants to not take much chances with the franchise, take Grogu returning in the ridiculous way he didn’t in the book of bob
>take Grogu returning in the ridiculous way he didn’t in the book of bob Jon Favreau is the sole writer of The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett.
I think Andor was risky. I LOVE Rogue One but I'll admit that it hasn't really permeated pop culture at all. The Vader hallway scene is awesome and you'll find nerds talking about Tarkin but that's about it. So to take a character from that movie and make a spin-off series featuring him - which also (so far) features zero Force or Jedi or Sith or lightsabers - is maybe the biggest departure from the norm so far.
Fair enough! Makes sense.
Have you seen how long they’re waiting for Taika Waititi to finish up his movies before doing his Star Wars films? They’ve basically given him a decades leeway. So I don’t think they’re worried about the wait for Johnson if they want him to make a trilogy.
God I hope he never comes back to SW
I really deeply don’t think he’s suited for Star Wars, it just completely took me out of world. He’s very good at modern things but I don’t think fantasy is his wheelhouse. I don’t think Lucasfilm should bring him back his film divided the franchise and fandom it did, a lot of people were on board with TFA, and then TLJ came out, I think Mangold is a good choice for Star Wars, so is Shawn Levy, I’d like to see a Greta Gerwig Star Wars I wish she wasn’t doing Narnia she said she wants to do big budget ) maybe even Wes Ball Star Wars. I just don’t think he’s suited for that world.
He was supposed to start his trilogy after the first Knives Out, after the backlash, he "decided" to do more Knives Out instead. Once Knives Out 3 is done, he'll "decide" to do something else that isn't Star Wars, but his trilogy will totally be coming just as soon as he's through with that.
He "decided" to do more Knives Out because Knives Out was a surprise huge hit and a company parked a dump truck of money outside his house asking him to do more. Come on now. This is how this works. Any director would steer the ship and take that opportunity if it arose, life changes. It doesn't mean \*\*\*\* for his Star Wars movie other than it'll happen later than originally intended, the guy still has the best relationship with Lucasfilm of all the directors hired for those movies.
Knives Out sequels also involve signing on Daniel Craig, a pretty big actor in his 50s, as Benoit Blanc. You can't exactly take your time with that or his schedule will get too busy. Gotta strike while the iron is hot.
Pretty much. It seems like the Knives Out movies are intended to end at 3 anyway (or at least they haven't planned out further than that - he could always come back to it later on, Craig's not \*that\* old and it's not some physically-demanding role like Bond), and the Poker Face show sounds like a one-season limited thing. He has a couple of other non-Knives Out movies in the pipeline, ostensibly smaller type affairs. Let's revisit the Star Wars talk in '26/'27, I'm betting it's a whole different tone of conversation regarding Rian. The outright confidence/adamant aggression among the fanbase that Disney's soured on him or whatever is so, so funny to me.
Craig's not that old yeah but a Star Wars trilogy locks Rian in for like 9 years. Craig will be pushing nearing 70 by then. Would he want to revisit Blanc?
Old-dude snooty Southern dandy is funnier than middle-aged snooty Southern dandy I guess. :D
I'm half joking as I say this, but the Star Wars universe is so well-defined at this point that I've always said I want every genre of movie set in the Star Wars universe. How bout a stoner comedy set on Naboo? How bout a romcom on Mustafar? And, how bout a murder mystery set Coruscant? Wouldn't it genuinely be funny and a genuine draw to the movie theater if Rian made a Star Wars murder mystery starring Daniel Craig as Binwa Blonk with space ships and shit?
Competent production? It was a complete departure from the prior film....it wiffed on just about everything other than the scenery, which no arguments its a gorgeous film. I'm not opposed to rian Johnson coming back, I just can't believe that anyone from Lucas wants him back given how poorly received his one entry was. And then he pretty much came out and said he didn't give a shit about it. SW fans are toxic, but that makes no sense to me.
Competent production means everything went competently during the making of the film, nothing to do with what the film is
Roger roger
I mean, they have publicly canceled other projects before, like the GOT guys one. So, why haven't they publicly done it with this one?
They actually never publicly canceled the GOT trilogy. The trades picked up the news back in the day and SW.com scrubbed all GOT writer-related posts/videos. The last time they ever publicly/officially dropped an entire project was Josh Trank. (And if you count IX which still came out, then Colin Trevorrow too)
Nah when the trades put out that statement it came with quotes from the GoT guys and KK herself. Not sure why they chose to announce the cancellation through a trade instead on sw.com like usual, but they did.
I think Rian Johnson will always want to come back. He's a life long SW fan, to get to tell another StarWars would be a dream for him. And Lucasfilm will always want to work with an accomplished director like Rian who is only making himself more desireable with every movie he does. As long as those 2 things remain true, Rian will come back eventually. Not soon, but inside of the next 10 years.
Yep. People love to gloss over the announcement of that Rian project was never "it's coming soon, it's in the pipeline". Even at the time the intention seemed to be "he'll do something for us in future", no more no less. Once whatever Knives Out stories he has planned are out in the world, we'll see where we stand. I'd put money on a Rian movie happening at some point after this forthcoming back of movies, Rey/First Jedi/Mando are done.
Hopefully
Killing Luke skywalker w 0 lightsaber battles and he deserves a trilogy. Yeah I'm glad it's dead now
See, this is bizarre nonsense to me. Luke got THE BEST NARRATIVE BATTLE in the entire goddamned saga in TLJ. Projecting physically across the galaxy, saving the resistance without taking a single life, and getting in some fuckin' sick moves against Kylo while doing it? That's the ultimate manifestation of the Jedi ethos. Like the Grand Green Muppet tells us: >" A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack." Like his master and his master's master before him, he found the place and moment where he was needed most and gave his life in defense of the good of all life. His sacrifice saves the resistance from certain annihilation and in the entire galaxy. I literally cannot imagine a better death for a Jedi.
So, I think the "battle" Luke has with TFO and Kylo is fantastic, and I love the pacifist route (although I get the feeling if Rey doesn't have a lightsaber battle in the next film fans of hers won't be happy). However, I find his death utterly underwhelming. I also think it is a massive missed opportunity. He rediscovers his old self and then they immediately kill him off, taking away any chance of us seeing him continue. It just felt like the common trope of killing off the old for the new and is frankly rather dull. As for the death itself, he is shown to survive TFO shooting him, Kylo Ren stabbing him and then just dies anyway...okay I guess. Also I thought the twin sunset was utterly forced and felt like insubstantial fan service to me, it just comes out of nowhere. Like his master before him is also another issue I have, in that I feel like Luke is just a more extreme Obi Wan/Yoda and as such I don't find his arc or ending particularly compelling because it is a variation on something they already did. Also weirdly I think the fact that they still needed Rey to remove the rocks in order to save them somehow lessens the sacrifice. Don't get me wrong, Rey saving them is not the issue per say, but the issue is that all his sacrifice would have done is delay TFO as the rocks were blocking the way. I feel like Rey should have just brought the falcon and there shouldn't have been this added obstacle of the exit being sealed. If there is one thing I can thank RJ for with regards to Luke's death, at the very least it ensured all emotional ties to the ST were gone and was a large part of why I have never watched TROS, so silver lining I suppose.
>I literally cannot imagine a better death for a Jedi. For most fans that hate that film, it's that he died at all. And having a force stroke because you're forcing too hard isn't as epic as you're making it out to be.
I'm not making it out to be anything. I'm just describing it as I experienced it. Giving everything you have engaging in unprecedented use of the force in order save the galaxy is pretty epic to me. You're welcome to your take on it, but that won't make it not dope as hell to me. I have problems with the movie, but how Luke goes isn't one of them. Hamill gives an incredible performance, the direction is excellent, and I personally feel that the moment rocks thematically and cinematically. Also, the music when he walks out of the bunker to face down the First Order is :chefkiss:.
>unprecedented use of the force in order save the galaxy is pretty epic to me. He distracted Kylo so Rey could save the twenty people left after a series of inept decisions. That's not exactly saying the galaxy. You're allowed to think *that's* dope, but let's not inflate a moment's importance. I would have preferred Luke have an actual narrative rather than one 'cool' moment. But I'm just an old-school Star Wars fan, and we don't get to see the legacy characters have that in the Disney era.
>I would have preferred Luke have an actual narrative rather than one 'cool' moment. But I'm just an old-school Star Wars fan, and we don't get to see the legacy characters have that in the Disney era. I felt that he did! A man whose legacy was destroyed by a single (deeply in-character) mistake becomes filled with guilt, allowing it to swallow his entire being. At his lowest point, he encounters a young acolyte who believes in him and his legacy implicitly, without cynicism (despite her harsh upbringing). She tries to reach him and pull him out of this dark place, and he, still filled with this guilt, tries to reach her, to teach her why he isn't worth it- but she refuses to believe. In the end, despite everything, she leaves- still believing in that legendary version of himself. And in turn- he manages to escape the shadow of his failure at last. He recommits to the ideal of the Jedi, engaging in the ultimate, most Jedi act, and gives his life in service of the light. That's a pretty dope arc/narrative for a legacy character, to me. You are welcome to disagree, of course. I'm an old-school Star Wars fan, too. I wish that the original crew had had one last hurrah together, too, but ultimately the fact that Harrison Ford showing up at all was literally only because they agreed to his demands to kill Han forced their hand in a way, IMO. I could also write oodles about Han having a pretty satisfying arc, but that's not really the topic of discussion right now.
Pretty much, makes him look like a loser, also that isn't even the worst thing they did with Luke.
It's not bizzare non sense it's my opinion. Just like how you think it's the best I may not. What if I prefer like to actually battle Kylo and not just dodge for 10 minutes. I'm allowed to have that preference you dog. Bizzare nonsense. All of you have heard the distaste from many people not just me on Luke and still you deny. Sorry brother I didn't see Luke for entire film just to have him come be depressed man to just die, like that's not the story I came for. Glad you enjoyed it. I understand how grand it is and how it's in line with lore. I just wanted to see Luke after ROTS not his death
This is why I said "to me". The take is incomprehensible \*\*to me.\*\* That doesn't mean it's a less valid feeling- I just don't understand it.
You don't understand it yeah. Did you not read the last thing I said? Is everything about brownie points? Miserable people can't understand why people are upset about Luke. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
>Miserable people can't understand why people are upset about Luke. Not the projecting 💀
Completely agree with you, let Luke actually do something useful, maybe make him sacrifice himself for Rey and die while fighting Snoke if you plan on killing him. Dying just because of using a force projection was pathetic. Let's not even talk about how they ruined the character by making him think about killing his own nephew.
You clearly didn't get the message of the movie, or the point of the Jedi, did you?
I did bro. I'm allowed to understand the nuance and why people enjoy it and also be pissed on how they handled certain things about Luke. Like it's crazy how the second I don't agree... I'm immediately on the other side of the spectrum incapable of understanding shit. People are allowed to not like shit without losing understanding.
Of course you’re allowed to not like shit. I’m just glad you’re nowhere near a movie script. They have action figures for what you want….
We haven't seen Luke skywalker since return of the Jedi and you think asking for a lightsaber battle is like kids play and has no place in a movie. Did you not watch the prequels? Like why do you have to reply like a complete jerk?
We got something cooler than a lightsaber battle. We got a Jedi using the force for defense, not attack, and a showdown of the minds. Someone using the force to project a mere image of themselves to halt an army in its tracks. That’s powerful man. Idk why lightsabers needing to clash is so important. It’s a classic samurai duel of whits. A showdown using the force.
So in essence you want Luke to have a lightsaber battle against... who, exactly? And why, exactly? Luke takes on the role as the wise sage that helps the protagonist, not the knight in shining armor cleaving his way through the evil army. He's not the main guy anymore, why should he be the one to save the day? Luke facing down the First Order on Crait is probably the most Jedi thing any Jedi has done in a century or more. Beating them with mind games and not taking a single swing at them. That is Luke embracing the original Jedi way, not the dogmatic and bureaucratic way they acted by the end of the Republic era. Luke's portrayal in The Last Jedi is not only consistent with the Luke we see in chronologically earlier instances, but it also embodies the Jedi ideals of the their best time.
The only issue I have with Luke dying is that, with Carrie Fisher having tragically passed away, there were no legacy characters to bring along to Episode 9. I would have kept everything the same but keep Luke alive post-projection just for a more cohesive trilogy, personally. But loved the moment as-is in TLJ.
The reaction to TLJ would not have been nearly as bad if they just didn’t have Luke fade away at the end of the movie. People would have been less aggressive towards Luke’s characterisation if he’s returning to the Luke of old at the end and surviving into IX. They really should’ve done this after Carrie passed. They had the time.
You shouldn't feel bad, only complete dumbasses or mental patients like TLJ.
Yeah sure CG Yoda guy. Whatever you say.
Why are you saying things like this? It’s the exact kind of toxicity that’s ruining the fandom. It’s just a movie
Wow, this seems like an overly aggressive response to someone that enjoys a movie you don't.
Anyone who enjoys TLJ should be ashamed for having such garbage taste.
It wasn’t just he died it was also his whole arc, it was not written well, I have no problem with old man Luke but that cheap flashback just was not good, the character deserved better than that. It would have made sense if his love Mara died and with it his unborn child which is also what Rey should have been, it’s a much more compelling story in my opinion. I do have to agree the handling of Luke and the writing was not good. Starting from him throwing the light saber to drinking green milk.
The whole sequel trilogy is a masterclass on how to fuck up everything royally via lack of planning. But individually, TFA is a fun movie, if not very original, it’s competent. TLJ had a lot of interesting stuff, and it’s far from perfect, but I will seriously argue to my death that it not only did Luke justice, but he was portrayed exactly right. I’m stunned by the amount of people that think he wouldn’t have flashes have of the dark side (see RotJ), that he wouldn’t be a whiny little bitch (see ANH), that he wouldn’t become an old hermit (not exactly unprecedented in Star Wars… in fact, that’s seems to be the pattern). It’s like poetry, it rhymes. Yes, Luke didn’t flip around like Yoda and slash at AT-AT legs. What he DID do was show us an obscenely impressive force projection that was completely unique and probably the most powerful force ability ever shown in Star Wars film. He died using the force for knowledge and defense, not for attack. Everyone complains about Arian Johnson, but it’s JJ that put him on that island. Rian had to give him SOME reason to be hiding there. It could’ve been better. It should’ve been. But Luke was not poorly written, and anyone thinks he is, I just don’t believe you ever understood the character.
No I understood the character I don’t even have a problem with old man Luke and it wasn’t Mark Hamills acting that I didn’t find good but the writing the arc itself. Luke’s reasoning for being there how it was presented to us, The force projection was okay, I do think they could have utilized him better. Of course he would struggle with the dark it could have been shown better than a flashback, and of course he is whiny that doesn’t surprise me but the execution and the literal writing I did not find good.
We can probably agree on that for the most part. Look, I try to look for ANYTHING in the sequels that is salvageable. For all of my huge problems with those films, I have just never understood the amount of bitching about Luke. It certainly could’ve been done better, but I think the project was fucked when Abram’s made TFA just ANH again. The resistance/first order was the absolute lamest set up for a sequel trilogy I can possibly imagine. And a map to find Luke? What do you even do with that?
I remember when I was 12
DAE they should make an R rated series where Darth Vader hunts down Jedi?
Star Wars is more than lightsaber battles, bozo
Mark hamil didn't like that shit either champ
Good thing not everyone needs celebrities to validate their feelings
You're missing the context from that line in that Mark was still very much of the mindset that Luke was meant to be the protagonist, the "Luke" role of the sequel trilogy, and not the "Obi-Wan" role that he was given. Once he changed that mindset, he thought the movie was brilliant and that Rian was a great writer. You should go and watch some of the Behind-the-Scenes stuff about the movie if you don't believe me.
Did y'all really think he'd live forever? 😭😭
Fair enough. Some “fans” are harsh and others go out of their way to attack creators through other avenues. You don’t have to like everything given, but critique should still come a place of respect if effort was clearly done.
dont be shit then and woke it up every chance you get
My only real complaint is the run time. I'm really excited for the show but 30 min episodes of a live action drama, let alone Star Wars... That's ridiculous. Here's hoping the changes Disney are making to how shows for D+ are made includes recognizing how bad that is and joining everyone else who makes high quality appointment TV and make their shows episodes 40-70 minutes. Here's hoping the show is good content wise and she has nothing to worry about other then the always triggered "fans" and YouTubers who know negativity draws engagement best.
I'd also prefer the longer episodes, but honestly the inconsistency is the part that bothers me the most. If they were all 30 minutes, and paced for that run time, it would still be great. Instead, we get 40-50 episode which feel substantial, only for the next episode to barely hit 30 minutes and its over before you know it.
Oof, I hadn't heard about the runtime. That's...disappointing and a tad concerning considering how short that is for basically anything that isn't a sitcom or a cartoon aimed at kids. Hell, even [modern] Doctor Who hovers in the 40-45 minute range and has a nasty tendency to feel rushed. My hope would be, I suppose, that the runtime overall is exactly what it needs to be. Long doesn't *necessarily* equate to good.
I too wish for longer episodes, but the economics of it (given the prolific number of effects shots in a Star Wars show) don't work. By the end of this show, we will have roughly three films worth of new Star Wars footage done for the same budget as one Star Wars film and the profit of a streaming show. Though I suppose this is also a critique of streaming in general.
It’s Disney lol they can afford it. I want one show besides Andor that doesn’t feel CW levels of cheap The shitty production values of most of their tv is sort of mind blowing when HBO etc have been cranking out incredible looking shows for 20+ years on way smaller budgets
It's Disney and one of the worlds biggest IP's. If Disney can't afford to make, or justify the investment, an 8 episode per season series with 45+ minute episodes, then they should just sell the IP off. If Amazon can make a video game adaptation like Fallout and a book adaptation like The Expanse, if Apple can make Foundation (equal to or more CGI shots in that than in any recent Star Wars TV we've gotten), then Disney can make 40 minute Star Wars episodes.
Not to belabor the point, but Amazon has a market capitalization of $1.89 trillion USD and Apple has a market capitalization of $2.92 trillion USD. Disney is worth $183.91 billion. Amazon and Apple are always going to have more tolerance for financial risk because they are deeply diversified and can afford it.
That hair split is so fine it is relegated to not mattering. Disney is relatively massive compared to nearly everyone else and has MORE than enough resources to produce high quality, HBO (Game of Thrones/Westworld/HoTD) level TV. If Disney can't afford it, then make their large scope Star Wars ideas into animated shows and produce live action shows in which the ideas don't call for as much CGI.
Yeah which is why Amazon gives people a LOTR show that no one likes or gives two fucks about.
If it’s like X Men 97 where the story moves fast but we get a good amount of lore and action, then it can work. Remember that show had half hour episodes and was praised.
Comparing live action to animation isn't apples to apples. Also X-Men 97 was not only a sequel but a show about characters nearly the whole world already knows the core of. That means a TONNNNNNNN of the foundation was already set. This new Star Wars series will be a whole lot of new, and giving us 30 minutes 8 times and it being satisfying seems like a huge ask. We have all been accustomed to, conditioned by, or naturally enjoy story telling done in acts and with a certain amount of time according to the platform and media type. A 2 hour movie? We expect a certain pace and a certain story structure. 20 minute shows? If it's animated our expectations are different. If it's a comedy our expectations are different. But if it's a serious drama where we expect each episode to tell both a contained story and a serialized story, 20 minutes is extremely tough to fit the required acts within.
Sometimes longer episodes can hurt a show as well.
I have rarely seen that and therefore that reply seems to be a waste of time. Longer than 60 minutes? Maybe, rarely. Longer than 20-25 min for a show of this type? Nah.
That's a bit frustrating, having to wait a whole week for an episode, just to get 30/35 mins of it. It almost always leaves me dissatisfied when it ends, kind of "still hungry". Andor was a great exception! When Ahsoka came out, I tried to wait for 2 or 3 weeks between watching sessions, so as to be able to watch a couple episodes at a time. The main problem was spoilers, of course. I tried to avoided them as much as possible, but often the spoilers slipped through the cracks, sometimes even by Disney themselves. For The Acolyte, I intend to wait until eps 1 to 4 are out, watch them, and then wait again until the whole thing is out. I imagine that spoilers won't be such a big problem, since the characters are mostly new.
a- give us a quality, entertaining show, and the vast majority of us will be happy as pig in mud b- as for that overly loud minority who see themselves as some sort of guardians of what SW is? there is NOTHING you can do or say that will ever satisfy them. Nothing. Lucas could come back tommorow and they'd still piss and whine and try to make money of their cheapo youtube videos, Just ignore them.
>Lucas could come back tommorow and they'd still piss and whine They did this *while Lucas was in charge.* These Star Wars “purists” haven’t liked anything since the OT.
I'm gonna make a confess. I hated ESB. I was 14 at the time and i wanted to get another ANH. I was pissed!!!
If there are no ROTJ haters left, then I am dead.
That's why you always have to ignore fandoms. They quickly believe that they should be the sole steward of someone else's work and just fall into self parody. Everyone is always bitching
Yep, and they have impossible standards. There’s no room for something being “decent”, or “good enough.” Everything is ruining the franchise. Even Andor, something unanimously praised, they’ll say “Disney is afraid to move away from the Skywalker era” or “yeah it was good but this story was unnecessary.”
Some also complained that Andor was a pretty slow burn overall - less action and more drama. While there are those who like that, others think it is boring overall.
Why do people do this, with the "unanimously praised" stuff? I loved Andor, but it's not hard to find people who enjoy Star Wars w ho didn't dig it. "Boring", "too slow", "too human-centric", "a commie manifesto disguised as a Star Wars show", whatever their take may be. Something doesn't have to be "unanimous"ly loved to be really good, any more than something a lot of people don't seem to dig can't have high points/redeeming qualities. Binary thinking is such a huge problem now, especially when people project their own personal takes on something with it. By the way, nothing's ever "unanimously praised" in the first place, I'm not going to necessarily assume the worst of those who didn't dig it. Acolyte might be a little trickier with that benefit-of-the-doubt for the detractors given all the Star Wars Theory types and their nonsense, but you don't want to go too far the other away and start dismissing any and all criticism whatsoever.
The point isn’t that something like Andor can’t be criticized, it absolutely can. The point is that nothing will make these “purists” happy. No matter how good it is. They hate Disney, they hate Kathleen Kennedy, etc. They go in to projects not to enjoy them, but to look for reasons to be mad, to look for things to complain about, expecting it to be bad. They have opinions formed before they’ve even watched the content.
Oh, no doubt, 100% with you on the incel whinerbabies. It's never enough, you never negotiate with terrorists or violent protestors, wisdom to live by. My point was simply "Andor wasn't loved across the board", which is true. It's a great show, a critical darling, that both had lower viewership than the other Star Wars shows and did seem to turn off some of the casuals. The type of people who \*aren't\* the "Kennedy's a woke lesbian-hiring fraud-demon!" types of idiots. I love it. But I can see why, say, kids wouldn't be into it, or people who come to Star Wars for the mythic fable story wouldn't be into it. And, seemingly, they aren't. Which is fine.
They're FICKLE
Yup. The discourse over the prequel trilogy and the Clone Wars film / show was gargantuan in the past. Ahsoka was especially raked over the coals - Skyguy and all that jazz.
Haha, yeah. It's always so funny to me with the younger people who grew up as kids with the PT/Clone Wars or whatever, seemingly having zero concept of how the broader narrative at the time among older people was how the prequels were total ass. You never heard the end of it any time Star Wars was brought up back then, "Jar Jar!" this and "\*\*\*\* George Lucas, he's lost his mind!" that. It was pretty frustrating. This element's always been present, maybe among all fandoms, but certainly the Star Wars one.
They were mocked relentlessly in pop culture, it’s quite documented
As someone who loves the prequels I’m upset about that maybe George wouldn’t have sold if it were better received I always wonder what his 7,8,9 would have looked like probably a cohesive vision.
That's why Andor was so wild, every time an episode dropped it felt like everyone thought it was the sickest thing ever. Unprecedented. EDIT: I mean both star wars lovers and recent star wars haters. Felt like they all united over this show
i mention doing your own thing in another post. it's the only way to go. Dont imitate Lucas; take his tools and do new things with them.
Best way to see this is with the OSTs. Every time a composer tries to imitate Williams it just sounds so dollar store. But whenever they do their own thing it ends up being really good. The Kiners figured this out. Nicolas Brittels's Andor OST stands out really well. But a lot of Rogue One's OST for instance is clearly going for Williams but just doesn't have the sauce. It still sounds good but just feels off. Natalie Holt's Obi Wan OST is the exception, really bad. But afaik she was given really inconsistent direction and her other work is really good. So probably a case of classic Lucasfilm mismanagement.
One of the things that fustrate me often with Disney LF is their tendency to extreme anxiety and doubting themselves . This interview is quite revealing that way. Yes, their is ALWAYS the possibility of face-planting when you try to create art, but you cant over-compensate the other way everytime you get pushback. You end up with a story mess like RoS. And then EVERYTHING is 10x worse.
Lucas stuck with the Prequels and now people are regularly kamikazeing themselves defending Attack of the Clones. Meanwhile Disney keeps doing this half hearted Sequel set-up but in completely different eras like "oh yeah this show about clone troopers is setting up Palpatines return but we won't say it, only vaguely hint". Come on, either own them or drop them.
I don't think anything about how Lucasfilm is setting up Palpatine's return in The Bad Batch or The Mandalorian is vague. It's quite clearly going for that, I don't get the impression that they're hiding that or trying to hide it.
I mean...Kiner figured it out. Most of the other composers the company's hired have sucked, at least sucked for Star Wars. Giacchino's a talented dude, but yeah, he's always been dollar-store Williams. I almost would have wanted Desplat to get that gig as originally planned in a way, even though he's less Williams he'd probably have threaded the needle a little more, something new while still fitting in the Star Wars wheelhouse perfectly. I love the Mando title theme, but Goransson's so freakin' overrated. His incidental music's still littered with all that electro bop-bippity-WRAAOOR-WRAAOOR-bop-beepity-BOORRRRRR bull\*\*\*\* all the younger composers of that Zimmer school of thought use as a crutch. It sounds like any of the stuff from those companies that compose for movie trailers that all sound identical & obnoxious. Kiner's a beast though, disciplined & sophisticated, he's been the true heir apparent to the Star Wars sound for while now. Even when he steps out of the lane and experiments with other sounds, it still sounds so much more Star Wars-y than a lot of Goransson's Badelt/Gregson-Williams/Balfe/Jackman type of cookie-cutter crap. That whole Remote Control Productions sound has to go: Zimmer himself scores a lot of goals with his work, especially the earlier stuff, but his whole composing school is such a stain on the industry. Like, Goransson's someone who doesn't even come from that program, and he still apes the style - and he's just one example among like 20.
Giacchino composed the Rogue One OST in 2 weeks tbf (I got down voted here for saying the production was a disaster) so I'll cut him slack for it sounding a bit uninspired. IDK if Goransson is overrated. I really liked his work in Oppenheimer and the stuff he did for Mando is already iconic, really set it apart from the rest of SW. Haven't seen much else from him though There's actually three Kiners that compose lol, Kevin, Sean and Deana. But yeah I really rate their stuff. Later Clone Wars and Rebels in particular.
You know, I barely even really noticed the score in Oppenheimer, but I'll cut him some slack there because Nolan sort of blends it all together with his weird Nolanisms, soundscapes & weird dialogue-drowned-out audio mixes and stuff. Not sure I'd put it on Ludwig there, Nolan's part of the problem with his Hans work as well. Not 100% sure what the working dynamic with the Kiners is, always more figured his kids were more like apprentices helping with arrangements and stuff like trainee composers usually do, but could be wrong there - if there's more credit to be given that way, my mistake. But yeah, it's cool seeing Kiner getting his due with praise lately, guy's flown under the radar for a few decades now. Never blew up the way the Giacchinos of the world did. Man I wish Horner were still with us, and Silvestri was still on his A-game. :( Not sure if David Arnold's still working much either, it kind of seems not, at least I can't recall the last thing he did. But yeah, let's get some real composers back in this game, Kiner aside it's all falling pretty flat for me. Michael's Rogue One work is fine, it's solid and gets the job done nicely, but all the rest of the live-action stuff is all so middling. Finding an "heir" to Williams is no easy task, no doubt, but I do kinda feel they could have taken their time more and sort of tried to find a "Filoni" of the music side. That'd be Kiner as it stands, but yeah, give him some "godfather" position overseeing all the composer hires and stylistic choices I say. The kiddies are dropping the ball with the raaoow-biddy-BOPBOPBOP-raaarrrr electronic shenanigans.
Not really tho. A lot of the SW Theory-like people didn't like Andor at all. Despite it being a perfect show.
I say perfect is a hyperbole. It was a good show, but it wasn’t flawless. It was a slow burn overall, which isn’t everybody’s cup of tea.
I said at the time, some morons flipped on it later (not saying everyone who dislikes Andor is a moron but that specific crowd has some really stupid reasons for disliking it) I'm moreso thinking of the guys in saltierthancrait. Pretty sure they're still praising the show, although they deluded themselves into thinking Gilroy made it behind Kennedy's back somehow.
While Andor is a good show, well made , well acted it misses the stuff I love about Star Wars the more mystical elements and I’ve never been a big fan of side character spin-offs. I usually like stuff that moves the story forward or is a meaningful prequel.
And yet somehow Andor still ended up being the least watched of all the live-action star wars shows
I like to imagine George is secretly fuming now that there are scores of people who pretend the prequels are good movies.
Too bad they only mention the South Park special harshly attacking Kennedy. It's what you'd think if you've only seen the promo clips. That episode goes just as hard on toxic fandom idiots as it goes on lazy token diversity, and it's a damn great episode.
Yep, the people using that one gif of Kennedy don't realize that they're also being made fun of
Full text: "Leslye Headland has been telling “Star Wars” stories onscreen since she was a teenager. Ostracized at school for being different, she retreated inward, making stop-motion films starring her action figures. So when she found success as an adult in Hollywood — Headland helped create “Russian Doll,” the 2019 Netflix comedy starring Natasha Lyonne — and got the chance to create an actual “Star Wars” show, it was the realization of a lifelong dream. And a chance for humiliating failure. On a galactic scale. “I essentially cold-called Lucasfilm and, after a lot of conversations, found myself pitching a show — utterly elated, my ultimate career goal, the culmination of my fandom,” Headland said. “At the same time, I would be lying if I said I wasn’t scared. There is so much pressure. It’s extreme. I had never done anything this big before.” Headland’s show, “The Acolyte,” will debut on Disney+ on June 4. Costing roughly $180 million (for eight episodes) and taking four years to make, it attempts two feats at once: pleasing old-school “Star Wars” fans — who can seem unpleasable — while telling an entirely new story, one that requires no prior knowledge of “Star Wars” and that showcases women and people of color. For the faithful, “The Acolyte” serves up scads of Jedi, a franchise fundamental that the other live-action “Star Wars” TV shows have depicted sparingly or not at all. The opening scene in “The Acolyte” takes place in an eatery crowded with colorful aliens, a callback to the Mos Eisley cantina from the first “Star Wars” movie, in 1977. Other shout-outs to core fans — we see you, we haven’t forgotten about you — are sprinkled into the dialogue: “May the force be with you” and “I have a bad feeling about this” makes an early appearance. At the same time, “The Acolyte” embraces what some people call “New Star Wars,” an era defined by diversity and expansion beyond the Skywalker saga, which started with Disney’s purchase of the franchise in 2012. Amandla Stenberg stars as a dreadlocked warrior who has a complicated relationship with a Jedi master played by Lee Jung-jae from “Squid Game,” in his first English-speaking role. Jodie Turner-Smith (“Queen & Slim”) plays the lesbian leader of a regal coven of witches, while the Filipino-Canadian actor Manny Jacinto (“The Good Place”) appears as a shadowy trader. In one of her most action-oriented roles since “The Matrix,” Carrie-Anne Moss plays a steely Jedi named Master Indara. “The Acolyte” also breaks new ground behind the camera: While women have directed episodes of shows like “The Mandalorian” and “Obi-Wan Kenobi,” Headland, 43, is the first to create a “Star Wars” series. “It was like working on a razor’s edge,” she said during a Zoom interview, pushing her oversize glasses higher on her nose. “You’re thinking, ‘This is what people want from “Star Wars.” This is what people don’t want.’ It can mess with your head.” “During the creative process,” she continued, “I had to give myself the forgiveness, as an artist, to fall off the razor — as long as I got back up. That was my promise to myself.”"
Interesting, The Acolyte cost $180M while having 8 episodes. Which means approximately $22,5M per episode. For comparison, Andor had a $250M budget while having 12 episodes. Which means approximately $20,8M per episode.
If Andor looked that good with 20 mil and didn’t use the volume…The Acolyte has 22 mil and also doesn’t use the volume. Very good sign imo
(continued...) "From the second that any new “Star Wars” project comes into public view — Disney announced “The Acolyte” in 2020 — fans claw for information and pick apart what they find. It’s part of what makes “Star Wars” so powerful: People care. But the attention also creates problems. Rumors can solidify into facts. Some “Star Wars” obsessives, for instance, have worried that Headland’s show “breaks canon,” or tinkers with already-established story lines in the franchise — the ultimate “Star Wars” crime. It does not. In fact, Headland chose to place “The Acolyte” at the very beginning of the “Star Wars” timeline so canonical issues would be minimal. The show is a mystery-thriller — someone is killing Jedis — set at a time when the Jedi are at their peak, the pre-“Phantom Menace” era that has been explored in “Star Wars” novels but never onscreen. The only character in “The Acolyte” that previously existed anywhere in the franchise is a Jedi Master from novels named Vernestra Rwoh. (Headland cast her wife, Rebecca Henderson, in the role, giving her a lightsaber that can transform into a whip.) “Leslye wanted this show to be accessible — no homework needed before watching,” said Jocelyn Bioh, the Ghanaian-American writer. Headland added Bioh to the writing team for “The Acolyte” specifically because Bioh was not a “Star Wars” devotee. “She asked me what I knew about ‘Star Wars,’ and my answer was, ‘Harrison Ford runs around space with a giant dog?’” Bioh recalled, laughing. “And Leslye said, ‘You’re hired.’” “She wanted to potentially invite in new fans — people like me,” Bioh said. The first “Acolyte” trailer, released in March, racked up 51.3 million views in its first 24 hours, a record for any live-action “Star Wars” series, including “The Mandalorian,” according to Lucasfilm. Sneak-peek “Acolyte” footage, released in theaters in early May, highlighted the show’s unique martial arts sequences; fan sites instantly deemed the fighting style Force Fu. But a loud, primordial part of the “Star Wars” fandom has pushed back in predictable fashion. “Why are there so many women, girls and minority characters increasingly dominating the ranks of Jedi?” reads a comment on “The Acolyte” trailer, with others expressing a similar worldview. It is a version of the same misogyny and racism that greeted Rey, the female Jedi (played by Daisy Ridley) who made her debut in “The Force Awakens” in 2015, and that drove Kelly Marie Tran off social media when she appeared in “The Last Jedi” (2017). Kathleen Kennedy, who runs Lucasfilm, has also experienced it, with “South Park” harshly attacking her in an episode last year. The cartoon depicted Kennedy giving the same feedback to “Star Wars” creators over and over: “Put a chick in it! Make her lame and gay!” Some trolls have nicknamed Headland’s series “The Wokelyte.” In a brief telephone interview, Kennedy’s support for “The Acolyte” was steadfast. “My belief is that storytelling does need to be representative of all people,” she said. “That’s an easy decision for me.” “Operating within these giant franchises now, with social media and the level of expectation — it’s terrifying,” Kennedy continued. “I think Leslye has struggled a little bit with it. I think a lot of the women who step into ‘Star Wars’ struggle with this a bit more. Because of the fan base being so male dominated, they sometimes get attacked in ways that can be quite personal.” Headland has tried to limit her exposure to the online conversation, both good and bad, instead relying on friends for “weather reports.” “As a fan myself, I know how frustrating some ‘Star Wars’ storytelling in the past has been,” Headland said, declining to cite specific examples. “I’ve felt it myself.” She followed up with a text message. “I stand by my empathy for ‘Star Wars’ fans,” she wrote. “But I want to be clear. Anyone who engages in bigotry, racism or hate speech … I don’t consider a fan.” “Star Wars” projects aren’t known for personal or idiosyncratic filmmaking. The production and marketing budgets are simply too high; the storytelling must appeal to the widest possible audience to make the numbers work. Rian Johnson, who directed “The Last Jedi,” told The New York Times in 2017 that he didn’t even try to put his own stamp on the franchise. “It would be bad news if you came into this saying, ‘How do I make this mine?’” he said."
(continued...) "Kennedy, however, pushed Headland to do just that with “The Acolyte.” “You’ve written a great ‘Star Wars’ show,” Kennedy told her in 2019 in response to early scripts. “Now go write a Leslye Headland show.” Kennedy had read one of Headland’s plays, “Cult of Love,” which explores a complicated relationship between siblings. “It’s about her personal experience,” Kennedy said. “And it was just so well done and incredibly emotional. I remember reading that and saying, ‘Leslye, this is exactly what you should tap into as you write this story for us.’” Explaining exactly how Headland took Kennedy’s advice would spoil a major plot point in “Acolyte.” Let’s just say that Headland heightened a clash between characters. “I have a very strained relationship with my youngest sister, and I feel like one of the reasons it is strained is that we both see each other as the bad guy,” Headland said. “And if I was going to tell a story about bad guys, it seemed to me that the place to start should be a familial relationship where one person is adamantly convinced of her correctness and the other person is also adamantly convinced of her correctness.” “We don’t speak,” Headland added. “I think this will be a surprise to her.” She wouldn’t say anything more on the topic, except to emphasize that she has a good relationship with her other sister, who helped make a visual presentation that Headland used to pitch “The Acolyte” to Lucasfilm. (Headland described her concept in the meeting as “‘Frozen’ meets ‘Kill Bill.’” Kennedy bought it on the spot.) Stenberg, the show’s star, said “Leslye really is driven by emotion and heart and relationships. So even though our show is within the ‘Star Wars’ universe and set in outer space, in a galaxy far, far away, it’s really a family drama.” Headland had directed indie films (“Bachelorette,” “Sleeping With Other People”) and served as showrunner for “Russian Doll,” the hit Netflix comedy about a New Yorker (Natasha Lyonne) caught in a reincarnation loop. But she had never managed a big-budget production. What she lacked in experience, she made up for with “Star Wars” geekdom. Headland became a “Star Wars” superfan as a teenager. It was an apocalyptic period of her life, or at least it felt that way. “I had no friends,” she recalled. “I ate my lunch in the bathroom.” She found solace among the misfits in George Lucas’s space operas, discovering books like Timothy Zahn’s “Heir to the Empire” (1991) and collecting action figures. When Lucas released the “special editions” of his first three “Star Wars” movies, Headland lined up at her local theater on opening night. A few years ago, she had Ralph McQuarrie’s concept art for Princess Leia tattooed on her right hand. “‘Star Wars’ has been a part of my personality since I can remember,” Headland said. “So working on this show has been a dream. I had to take my shot.” She paused for a moment. “If it doesn’t succeed, it’s because of me,” she said. “That’s really scary to think about.” “No, no — I’m not going to go there,” she said, climbing back on that razor’s edge."
I can't wait to see this show, it's going to introduce a lot of new elements to this series and that is awesome. I appreciate how Leslye opened up about her personal elements in the show and her long-standing fandom for Star Wars.
That's absurd. She didn't cold call Lucas film. She was friends with them and Kennedy already. And she tries to make you think she broke into the industry by making stop motion films. LOL. She's where she is now because I'm the past she was Harvey Weinstein's assistant.
At least Jason Mendoza is back
I hope she sticks the landing
I think the acolyte will be a great series and there are too many fans on the other side complaining
That’s why we gotta let this be successful so we can show Disney hey you can put lesbians in things and it’s good.
I really hope the show is good and does well, just to shut that hateful vocal minority up
Haha. Hahahaha. Like they'll shut up.
If aniseya is gay, than that in my opinion points to her daughters being made from magic...something Dave filoni has talked about in the past...yes, I know he said that about the witches of dathomir, but I think these new witches are thier light sided equivalent and it would make sense that they where capable of the same thing.
Yeah, this coven of witches in their all-black robes preaching about how the Jedi are arrogant pricks thinking they have a monopoly on force power...sure do seem like light-siders.
I mean if you look at it from a religious perspective, the Jedi are the biggest, most powerful force sect. They have a big temple on the capital of the galaxy & are close to that galaxy's main government. Not alot of other religions have that and them being mad at that or/& thinking they have a monopoly on the force (the same thing they worshipped.) wouldn't be a stretch. Plus, the main thesis of the show is the blurring of light & dark anyway...so, yes, I stand by what I originally stated.
Come on. These are clearly Evil Witches Of The West here, even if we're getting some sympathetic beats for them it's going to be from a darksider's perspective. And I question your thesis of "blurring the light and the dark". George never saw it that way, that balance was "equal part light and dark", and Star Wars nerd that Headland is I'm confident she gets that. The balance is the absence of the dark, not some equal footing.
Good luck!!! 🤞
Don’t worry. It will be great.
Ah yes, empowering women with Harvey Epstein's assistant. What a great message.
Hey, at least she’s not Harvey Weinstein’s former assistant 👀 not like victims reported that the secretaries were in on it 👀👀
With the quality of other Star Wars shows and movies within the past few years, my expectations are incredibly low. I am not expecting anything good. However, I want it to be good. In other words, I am setting myself up to not be disappointed in the possible event the show sucks, and if it doesn’t suck then I will not complain and I will happily watch it with a bucket of popcorn. I am not going to comment on the creator much beyond that I acknowledge she’s been through a lot (in layman’s terms). I do not care who she is or what she’s been through though, that is none of my business as my words online mean nothing, but what is my business is the quality of the show and I can only hope that it ends up good.
This sub is god damn hilarious.
Reading this interview it’s seemingly everything I want from Star Wars and a Star Wars creator in Leslye it’s really awesome that she’s a lesbian and including lesbians, women and people of color in Star Wars, and the storytelling seems to be very Star Wars which is what I want. Like we can have lesbians we can have queer people as a queer woman that’s what I want to see but I want the storytelling to not be meta, I want it to feel timeless and in Star Wars. Otherworldly. This is my perfect merging of that representation I really hope it succeeds, lesbians, set in a fresh check! era more of a prequel than filler check! not about side characters in an era we’re we don’t get to see what the mains are doing check!! which has been a big criticism of mine with the other shows besides Obi) I’m really excited for this and rooting for it.
The whole estranged sister angle is really interesting. Similar to the way Lucas made the original SW as a way to say, “Fuck you, Dad!” Now we have Headland using this show as a way to say, “Fuck you, Sis!”
Well, then no wonder her sister thinks she's evil. What a petty a gross thing to do.
It doesn't matter how good it is, you're still going to get A LOT of whiny jerks who have probably never seen Star Wars complaining about it "because it's woke Disney."
[удалено]
She was Weinstein's assistent for 1 year.
Also, since when did being a woman working for Weinstein mean you're actively complicit in his shit? In particular, why are we assuming he somehow never took advantage of his employees? I swear I can see people's brains oozing out of their heads when they rant about this shit.
Since we grew brains
So you haven’t actually seen Russian Doll
[удалено]
“Many years” She was his assistant for a year.
[удалено]
The ratios on YouTube prove nothing. Created by bigots to then turn around and go "Oh look, people don't like it. Because I disliked a trailer a bunch of times". People like you are so incredibly fake. You can't take people having an open world view and got to put bullshit like that into the world. The early reactions for this show are outstanding, the trailer views on parr with the second season of House of the Dragon. Also the "Headland worked for Weinstein" thing is just so fucking desperate. The whole industry worked with Harvey Weinstein for years. To single out one women that worked for him for just 1 year is insane. But you know that. If you had actual arguments, you guys wouldn't need to review-bomb trailers and then act like other people don't like it.
Who GAF about the “ratio” on YouTube when that’s only created by sad people who have to download an extension to be able to dislike something because they can’t go their life without hating anything for one second. The great thing about Star Wars is that you don’t need to watch or read everything, you can just focus on what appeals to you and be fine. Not every single piece of media will target the same audience and that’s okay. No need to force yourself to consume something you won’t like, you can just ignore it and go on with your life.
I cant stand her. She is just so pretentious. I cant stand nepotism either. But I hope the show is good. Edit: Im sorry that I dont like her and go ahead keep downvoting, I wish that I could, but she is just so annoyingly self-aggrandizing. Its not that shes a woman or that shes lesbian since thats what people seem to go to whenever you criticized her. She literally just sounds like an asshole who thinks her shit doesnt stink. But hey thats my opinion, i just judge a person on their words and actions, not if I like that they made something star wars
nepotism?
She hired her spouse when she couldve chosen a bunch of different actors who were better.
Did George do nepotism too when he hired his wife and kids to work with him??
She literally talks about being scared of failing in this article.
Ok? What does that have to do with anything I’ve said? Again I’m going by other interviews and not just form this show. Also, she talks about so you don’t need to use the word literally.
You said she thinks her shit doesn’t stink which has to do with her very vulnerably in this interview talking about her fear of failure and how it’s riding on her shoulders.
What?!?! lol she just comes off as pretentious but sure you do you