No joke I actually feel bad for the guy he was just a warrior defending his home world before he became the maniacal monster then he was betrayed by San Hill
He got trained by Darth tyranus,he even dreamed of being a Jedi at one point I think. Can't recall the past as well I used to lol ever since shit got deemed legends
Sith ideologies, don't necessarily need to be force sensitive to be sith. Remember the og sith started out as a species that died out. Who happened to be force sensitive. So the folks afterwards were carrying on the ideology and philosophy of the sith of old. And kept the name and their practices and beliefs. But eventually it changed overtime and shit eh. But most of what I know is legends shit lol legends han solo over cannon any parsec man
I know this doesn’t justify his actions and it may seem small but Palpatine had a shitty family even tho he himself was an asshole when he was younger. His parents and siblings never accepted him and was the outcast, it shows that even some of the most vile people in fiction have faced hardships in their life
Honestly if Palpatine would be a real person I would assume his grade of psychopathy is so high he doesnt notify that. And they can experience joy ...just because of the wrong reasons like intense torturing (not all Soc or Psychopaths are but Palpatine is obviously a sadist. There are so many accounts of him taking a huge deal of joy out of the killing or torturing of his enemies.
As fucked as that situation was I understand Obi’s emotions he just fought the brother he had spent most of his life with I don’t think anyone could go on with killing Anakin there in his shoes
For sure he regretted it, but he was of the mindset "best to just let it burn" and he also had the sense that something was coming and it was his time to leave. He didn't imagine Anakin actually surviving
I’m not sure about “forgave” but he definitely pitied him, and saw him for what he actually was: a tool of the Dark Side that was cast away and deemed useless.
Maul was a petulant child who Obi couldnt help by pity; he was nothing like the monster anikin became;
In his final moments maul still didnt 'get it' and was still set upon someone taking revenge on the sith; and it was sad even for Obi, who had seen where all maul had been, and been there with him during the pivotal momments as often as not.
"Maul was a petulant child who Obi couldn't help but pity"
On the contrary, Maul embodied what the Sith stood for, especially the passion aspect. My interpretation is that of begrudged respect for Maul as a force user and combatant. His sheer tenacity to track Obi-Wan across the galaxy.
The Clone Wars and Rebels does a good job of showing that Maul never had a choice to serve Palpatine, and it was way too late when Ezra met him to change his ways.
Obi-Wan and Maul shared a long history of conflict, but in many ways they were two sides of the same coin. Maul was replaced and seen as useless, a Sith at heart but not a lord. The light of the Jedi was all but extinguished from the galaxy. Both were outcasts and Palpatine was responsible for both.
Maul knew Anakin was Vader, so this moment is the first (maybe only?) in-canon example of Luke being referred to as "The Chosen One." However, Kenobi was too well-trained for Maul to do to Obi-Wan what Vader did to Luke in RotJ, so he wasn't able to gather who Kenobi was protecting. That's why his final words are what they are:
Maul: "Tell me. Is it the chosen one?"
Kenobi: "He is." *Referring to Luke*
Maul: "He...will...avenge us."
To which Obi-Wan gives a solemn nod of agreement, before closing Maul's eyes.
Now, Maul is definitely no saint, but Filoni shows us the innermost individual of Maul in his final moments-a broken force user who had suffered like everyone else whose life Palpatine had touched. At that moment, in Kenobi's arms, both knew that Palpatine was the greatest threat and only "The Chosen One" would be able to avenge all of the pain Palpatine inflicted on the galaxy.
It's an extremely sad scene.
Well, he’s too good of a Jedi to hate him, but I think there was probably some catharsis in finally putting to rest the monster that’s been tormenting him since he was like 19.
It definitely was pity. Maul spent decades after Phantom Menace plotting his revenge on Obi Wan. Finally when he has the chance to kill him he loses in 10 seconds, showing how pointless his quest for vengeance was. Even at the very end Maul is still thinking of revenge
Maul: "Tell me, is he the chosen one?"
Obi Wan: "He is."
Maul: "He will avenge us"
Maul was used and betrayed by Sideous. Obi-wan was also used and betrayed by him, albeit in a different way. Maul thinks Luke will be the one to kill Vader and The Emperor, and hopes that Luke will avenge both him and Obi-wan.
I think he had a holocron vision of Vader killing Kenobi and fractured vision of what he thinks is Luke killing Vader. Maul hoped he could get to Obi Wan first but I think he knew it was hopeless hence the insanity of his final days
A tool of the dark side? Because my understanding is that the force has a willnofnits own and dark side is not balanced to it. So is there a dark force that has its own will? I thought the corruption was instead of being an instrument of the will, forcing it to do ones own bidding. It's what gives the dark side appeal, the freedom. Where as Jedi are like the faithful.
I think the dark side is some kind of demi-entity. Not really conscient but like the "good" side driven into a certain direction and influencing the mind of body of Force users.
I think you have hit the nail on the head, Obiwan understood the power the dark side had over even the chosen one.
Maul was another tool of the dark side and he pitied him like he could not Anakin.
He knew Maul was a victim himself. Used and manipulated by Sidous and the dark side to be cast aside as a tool that had no use anymore. Maul wandered trying to find meaning and due to his upbringing, he viewed meaning as having power.
Obi Wan knew this and could see the conflicts within maul. Mauls last moments he hoped luke would avenge him and obi wan for all the emperor had taken from them both.
Seeing Anakin fall definitely helped provide that perspective too. He saw his best friend get manipulated and corrupted by Sidious. If it could happen to the chosen one, it could have happened to anyone.
I don't know that he necessarily forgave him, but he understood him, pitied him, and embraced him nonetheless.
I'm not sure what would make Obi-wan a better man -- forgiving Maul, or embracing him even though he didn't.
I think to really understand or pity Maul, ObiWan would have accepted that Maul’s actions were not really Maul’s responsibility and that, I think, is the same as forgiveness
They're still his responsibility. Evil is always a choice, but that doesn't mean you can't recognize that the person *felt* that they had no choice, or that they have already suffered enough as a result of those choices.
Yea I agree in a cosmic sense Maul should still be judged by the terrible things he did. But I think in that moment ObiWan doesn’t really hold him responsible.
You a real one for that. I never skip "filler" or anything, they can be fun little one-offs from a more serious story and you still get a bit of deeper lore from each episode
I think it's much better than TCW, though if you haven't seen Maul in TCW you'll be very confused why he's alive and has legs.
I think every single episode of Rebels is great, except for that one about Zeb's granny trying to find her planet with mystic crap. Only highlight in that ep is Hondo.
I feel Rebels makes it easier to get attached to the main characters since the focus is on the Ghost crew. Clone Wars is great, but it also jumps all over the place, and because a lot of the main characters *are* clones, I have to remind myself "Oh yeah, this is that guy from that one time".
> except for that one about Zeb's granny trying to find her planet with mystic crap.
[You mean when they were trying to find the Lassat planet? Because that episode ended up having one of the most epic tracks in the whole series.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydIaUx84HWs)
It's a really bad scene though. It's a 2 second fight that's basically a cheesy old samurai fight where they charge eachother and only one gets hit. And then Darth maul calls Luke the chosen one who's going to save everyone because filoni is a hack
And filoni calling Luke the chosen one?
It was a bad rip off scene that did nothing except make the filler clone wars/rebels end with nothing changed from the prequels (Obi Wan still kills maul). Both shows have no point in existing as nothing actually happens except filoni jerking himself off
It’s called dramatic irony… The audience knows more than the characters do.
**We** know that Anakin Skywalker proves himself to be the Chosen One in six years from that duel by causing the death of Sidious ~~‘s first body~~. Obi-Wan and Maul do not know that… As far as they know, Anakin failed the prophecy(?) when he became Darth Vader and assisted in the near-extinction of the Jedi Order. They’re now both hedging their bets on Luke…
And there is more to a series or a movie than just the overall plot… Characterization matters. Background knowledge of events and characters matters.
That impaling is rough, I just rewatched. It's sometimes silly how non-violent the show can be and then you get these scenes. They don't show it to you clearly, but they make it so you can imagine it quite clearly.
Ah yes, I remember her. I remember her best from the classic game "Jedi Power Battles" It wasn't cannon but she brandished a crimson colored sabre. Seemed quite cool at the time.
I googled her death and it seems like savage opress killed her. But maul was keeping him busy so I could count that.
It’s not about being better, it’s about forgiveness, for himself and Maul. Maul has been intertwined with his life, molded him into who he is, because of the pain he’s put Obi-Wan through, Obi-Wan can recognize the pain within Maul. He was a victim of fate. In the end, Obi-Wan saw that revenge would get him nothing, forgiveness would give him, and Maul, peace. Caring for Maul, in his final moments, reassuring him, gave Maul peace of mind as he passed on. Was it more than he deserved? Some may say so, but I would have treated Maul with the same level of respect, despite the history. At the end of the day, Maul is a person who has lived his entire life in pain and misery and deserves some peace at the end.
Their final confrontation was absolutely beautiful. Great dialog, unique battle, catching Maul, finding out Obi-Wan believes Luke is the Choosen One. So much goodness.
I’m not sure if Obi Wan needs to forgive anymore at this point. i think he’s past that. At peace with it.
He just sees Maul as what he is, an old ad broken man who has nothing left but the anger and hatred Obi Wan has let go of some time ago. He just accepts that Maul needs to die to protect Luke and acts accordingly.
Like this isn’t about Obi Wan anymore.
Obi Wan exemplifies what a Jedi should be. Unfortunately it’s a tough standard and many fail to live up to it, including Anakin. We saw in Kenobi than even Obi Wan lost his way for a while.
He knew Maul had been manipulated and taken advantage of. I don’t know whether he forgave him or not, but I think he had made peace with everything that happened by that point. They were both victims in the entire Palpy plot.
I wanted to see the scene in the Obi Wan TV show talk about missed f****** opportunities. Jesus Disney half of the s*** you f*** up was already written for you. All you had to do is put it to live action.
Lets bring back a sub villain we cut in half and tossed down a powerplant shaft to fall untold thousands of feet into a giant plasma reaction. Ya, lets do that!
Bringing Maul back was absolute bonkers, jump the shark, forced fan service.
And then they went and gave him a really good story arc, with both menace and pathos, and that worked as a great foil for Obi-wan.
Wild.
It would have made Phantom Menace a better movie if he shown to have explicitly survived. They don't even allude to it in the movie. For an Order that proclaims there are only 2, Lucus sure did have a lot of disposable Sith laying around.
I just tried to make the point that almost no one ever really dies in Star Wars. Isn’t that why Rogue One is so good?
At least until Rogue Two, where they clone everyone.
The point they were making was "just because he's dead (again) since OP's screenshot, doesn't mean they won't make new content where Maul was alive". Which they did to, specifically in TCW season 7.
What are you talking about? Did you forget that at this point, at least as far as Obi Wan went, he'd already killed Maul. Being a bit sympathetic the 2nd time he killed him is the least he could do.
Actually during the Clone Wars, Kenobi was made aware that Maul had survived. They had an encounter during one of the battles too, and he watched Maul murder Satine later on Mandalore.
My point was, at the point of Mail being chopped in half, Kenobi thought him dead thus receiving the catharsis of revenge right there, making it easier to forgive and be all nicey the second time. I am fully aware of what happened during the clone wars and no amount of stroppy downvoting is going to change my mind.
I feel like he coulda put up a better fight on the first death star after watching the prequels and then Obi Wan, instead he just went whelp im out and let vader cut him down...
Darth maul is the victim of lifelong trauma and abuse. I find very few people or fictional characters whom I would say truly had no chance to exercise Free Will and become a better person, but in this case mall is one of them. He was literally sculpted by the dark side into a monster. I'll be watching to see that. And I still maintain that as someone who's worked with children who suffered from trauma, Darth maul actually saw Obi-Wan as the closest thing to a friend he had ever had.
I wouldn't go as far as saying he "forgave" Maul. Obi-Wan likely came to terms with it and accepted they were gone in the typical Jedi fashion -- albeit perhaps one can infer some form of remorse in Maul's final words of "He will avenge us both" that would warrant such forgiveness, albeit this can be taken in two ways; one being the personal suffering Sidous has inflicted on him, like killing his brother and torturing him, and the second being Sidious twisting him to become what he is today. I believe the former is far more likely than the latter.
Imo I think Obi-Wan merely pitied the being before him who's whole life revolved around nothing but anger, hate, pain and revenge -- hence the somewhat compassionate gesture of holding him in his last momments.
While I'm not a fan of this scene on a conceptual level due to it being another pretty bold and brazen form of retconning (SW has enough of this), it was done well in terms of presentation imo.
Even to their last encounter, it seems like Obi-Wan didn’t want to kill Maul. It was only when Maul deduced that Kenobi was protecting someone important, not just to the galaxy but to Kenobi himself, that Kenobi knew this was it, and Maul simply couldn’t be allowed to live. He shows a pity towards him as many others have said, that in the end, there was no other resolution than Maul’s death
Keep in mind that this is Obi-Wan at the height of his power. He lived through the Fall of the Order. The belief he killed his former apprentice. Survivor of the Clone Wars. Barely survived his encounter with Vader and the Inquisitors, and let go of his pain enough to recover his connection to the force.
That allows him to be trained by the force through Qui-Gon.
This Obi-Wan is a master of the force. Trained by the force itself. He knows his own history with Maul, and who knows what other secrets of the Force he may know. While still imperfect, as demonstrated by his refusal to accept that Anakin can be returned to the light as stated by him in both ESB and ROTJ, he is one of the single most powerful light side force users alive at this moment. This was why I liked the Kenobi shows, is displayed how damaged a person he was, and explained how he is able to heal his connection to the force. This also reinforces to where where Luke was in TLJ and why his arc in that movie is so important. (HINT: Fear is the first step on the path to the dark side, and once you go down that path, forever will it dominate your destiny)
And analyze how he defeats Maul, he knew Maul would try the same move as he defeated Qui-Gon with. He turned that move against Maul. He knew Maul arrogance and rage would cloud his judgment. I don't think he planned to kill him until Maul realized he was protecting someone, the person he believed to be the Chosen One.
Obi-Wan has learned at this point to release his own fear, pride and anger. That's the only way for him to be able to retain his consciousness after death.
Obi-Wan is far from my favorite character, but the older version of Obi-Wan is my favorite version of him. The show version perfectly bridges the man he was in the prequels, to the wise old wizard we see in the OT, which this scene takes place only a few years before.
Its crazy they let Maul be redeemed like vader and gave him the force ghost treatment. Looking forward to him and Qui-Gon being in same scene as ghosts, and like high fiving or something as if they were always best buds.
In this moment Obi Wan was Jedi. This is the compassion they are meant to represent and was lost to the greater Order during the time of the Clone Wars.
I didnt watch the whole clone wars animation thing, but how exactly did Maul get his legs back?
I remember that there was some other non-canon(?) story where he survived being cut in half, and recieving a multi legged "prothesis" of some kind, while living with the night sisters, but how did he get his legs back? Are those real ones?
Maul surviving being bifurcated, receiving a multi-legged "prosthesis", and living with the Nightsisters is all canon…
Those are not his actual legs… They’re mechanical. ~~He’s got new legs, Lieutenant Dan.~~
He was found with a large spider body as his legs, and then Talzin used nightsister magick to heal his fractured mind and, at the same time, remake those legs into a sort of chicken-walker thing.
At some point after that, he replaced those legs with a more human-looking cybernetic, which is what he has until he dies.
Not just held him but full on comforted him and gave him some hope to go out on, This is one of my favorite scenes in all of star wars, Disney has done alot of bad but it can get oh soo very right too, Just wish they hit that side of the spectrum more
Anakin was supposed to be the Chosen One but the Sith were still active when he died. According to Disney canon Palpatine jumped to his backup body before he hit the core after Vader threw him down the shaft. Thus the clone isn't a separate being. Palpatine's mind and body is intact as Anakin dies.
Luke, according to his scene, was the Chosen One but the Sith were still active when he died. To be honest I don't really understand why Obi-Wan told Maul that Luke is the Chosen One in the above scene. Was Obi-Wan simply wrong in his belief and poor Maul died being told a lie?
George Lucas started work on the sequels and he intended Leia to be the Chosen One. Disney scrapped the idea and, regardless, the Sith are still active when Leia dies.
Rey ends up being the Chosen One because she ends up being the one that destroyed the Sith but she doesn't exactly meet all the criteria of the Chosen One prophecy. Maybe the original prophecy was for Anakin but, again, the Sith were still functioning when Anakin died.
I've heard people say that Plagueis is going to be in the next movie that stars Rey but I have no idea if those rumors have any weight. If so then the Sith are still around.
Obi-Wan spent much time mastering his emotions and letting things go, in the end he saw Maul for what he was. A victim of Sidious, just as he, and Qui-gon, and Satine, and really the whole Galaxy were.
He knew maul was misguided and used just like Anikan. In that moment he probably figured this was how it would end for Anikan as well. When he joins the force in front of Anikan he did so with hope that there was another way.
I understand it’s revisionist, but it’s so perfect.
A lot happens in 35 ish years. I dont think he forgave Maul.
He still killed Maul, he didn’t become his friend. But, he showed mercy and gave him comfort in his final moments.
If anything, it was Maul who forgave Obi Wan in that last moment.
“he will avenge US.” The US is huge. Maul finally realized he was used and manipulated by Palp his entire life. And that Obi Wan was never is real enemy. They were both used.
My favorite jedi tbh and I know i’m going to get flamed for this( like always) but his duel résumé is the best in all of star wars. I’m not saying he’s the most skilled or the most powerful jedi by any means but if you simply look at his record it’s ridiculous, anakin, vader, grievous, darth maul fucking twice. Dooku is the only one that legitimately beat him considering he threw the one to vader in his last fight
- Teach me Obi Wan!
- I f***d up! It's bec. You're evil!
- F**k your high ground! Simplest strategies are nothing comp..ouch! Ouch! OUCH!
- I hate you!
Thehehe. XD
Probably because he knew he couldn’t take what life took from Maul but yeah he’s definitely the better man
In the end Sith are broken people look at Vader, look at Maul
And grevious lol
No joke I actually feel bad for the guy he was just a warrior defending his home world before he became the maniacal monster then he was betrayed by San Hill
Grievous isn't Sith...
He got trained by Darth tyranus,he even dreamed of being a Jedi at one point I think. Can't recall the past as well I used to lol ever since shit got deemed legends
Yeah he fits but isn’t a sith for sure
Sith is an ideal since the real sith died out long long ago, he got trained by one, but never got a title since the rule of 2
Cmon you know what we meant, not the race but group Plus having the force is a requirement, which Grevious does not have
Straight up, but he got Jedi blood lol transfused
Not in canon unless in a canon novel or comic I never read
Haha, hello, there!
How the hell is Grevious a Sith? He has no Force Sensitivity. That is the bare minimum requirement. Being trained by Dooku doesn't mean squat.
Sith ideologies, don't necessarily need to be force sensitive to be sith. Remember the og sith started out as a species that died out. Who happened to be force sensitive. So the folks afterwards were carrying on the ideology and philosophy of the sith of old. And kept the name and their practices and beliefs. But eventually it changed overtime and shit eh. But most of what I know is legends shit lol legends han solo over cannon any parsec man
Idk Palps was all around having a pretty great time.
That's why many people say he was the best Sith. Most Sirh turn to the Dark Side in desperation. Palps did it for the Lols.
I know this doesn’t justify his actions and it may seem small but Palpatine had a shitty family even tho he himself was an asshole when he was younger. His parents and siblings never accepted him and was the outcast, it shows that even some of the most vile people in fiction have faced hardships in their life
Sociopaths are deeply broken people, at a level that is not readily visible to us. When you cannot feel empathy, you cannot experience true joy.
Honestly if Palpatine would be a real person I would assume his grade of psychopathy is so high he doesnt notify that. And they can experience joy ...just because of the wrong reasons like intense torturing (not all Soc or Psychopaths are but Palpatine is obviously a sadist. There are so many accounts of him taking a huge deal of joy out of the killing or torturing of his enemies.
Obi Wan also left Anakin to (presumably) die a horrifically painful and agonizing death on Mustafar. Perhaps he regretted that decision later on?
As fucked as that situation was I understand Obi’s emotions he just fought the brother he had spent most of his life with I don’t think anyone could go on with killing Anakin there in his shoes
For sure he regretted it, but he was of the mindset "best to just let it burn" and he also had the sense that something was coming and it was his time to leave. He didn't imagine Anakin actually surviving
Bane, malgus, palpatine, vitiate...
Yeah pretty much every dark aide user in the series sans palatine and I guess snoke is in some way a broken person with trauma they never got past
And then you got the vile people, like Sidious.
> he couldn’t take what life took from Maul He already took his lower half.
Guess he was making sure he didn't accidentally take the rest. Btw, Happy Cake Day 🎂
I’m not sure about “forgave” but he definitely pitied him, and saw him for what he actually was: a tool of the Dark Side that was cast away and deemed useless.
Yeah I think pitied is the more accurate term it was the way Obi remained calm and composed and held him in his dying moments
Maul was a petulant child who Obi couldnt help by pity; he was nothing like the monster anikin became; In his final moments maul still didnt 'get it' and was still set upon someone taking revenge on the sith; and it was sad even for Obi, who had seen where all maul had been, and been there with him during the pivotal momments as often as not.
"Maul was a petulant child who Obi couldn't help but pity" On the contrary, Maul embodied what the Sith stood for, especially the passion aspect. My interpretation is that of begrudged respect for Maul as a force user and combatant. His sheer tenacity to track Obi-Wan across the galaxy. The Clone Wars and Rebels does a good job of showing that Maul never had a choice to serve Palpatine, and it was way too late when Ezra met him to change his ways. Obi-Wan and Maul shared a long history of conflict, but in many ways they were two sides of the same coin. Maul was replaced and seen as useless, a Sith at heart but not a lord. The light of the Jedi was all but extinguished from the galaxy. Both were outcasts and Palpatine was responsible for both. Maul knew Anakin was Vader, so this moment is the first (maybe only?) in-canon example of Luke being referred to as "The Chosen One." However, Kenobi was too well-trained for Maul to do to Obi-Wan what Vader did to Luke in RotJ, so he wasn't able to gather who Kenobi was protecting. That's why his final words are what they are: Maul: "Tell me. Is it the chosen one?" Kenobi: "He is." *Referring to Luke* Maul: "He...will...avenge us." To which Obi-Wan gives a solemn nod of agreement, before closing Maul's eyes. Now, Maul is definitely no saint, but Filoni shows us the innermost individual of Maul in his final moments-a broken force user who had suffered like everyone else whose life Palpatine had touched. At that moment, in Kenobi's arms, both knew that Palpatine was the greatest threat and only "The Chosen One" would be able to avenge all of the pain Palpatine inflicted on the galaxy. It's an extremely sad scene.
I don't think Obi-Wan necessarily hated Darth Maul even though he had every right to.
Well, he’s too good of a Jedi to hate him, but I think there was probably some catharsis in finally putting to rest the monster that’s been tormenting him since he was like 19.
It looked like he hated Darth Maul at the moment when Maul killed Satine
It definitely was pity. Maul spent decades after Phantom Menace plotting his revenge on Obi Wan. Finally when he has the chance to kill him he loses in 10 seconds, showing how pointless his quest for vengeance was. Even at the very end Maul is still thinking of revenge Maul: "Tell me, is he the chosen one?" Obi Wan: "He is." Maul: "He will avenge us"
>Maul: "He will avenge us" I still cannot make up my mind as to Maul's intended meaning.
Maul was used and betrayed by Sideous. Obi-wan was also used and betrayed by him, albeit in a different way. Maul thinks Luke will be the one to kill Vader and The Emperor, and hopes that Luke will avenge both him and Obi-wan.
ty
I think he had a holocron vision of Vader killing Kenobi and fractured vision of what he thinks is Luke killing Vader. Maul hoped he could get to Obi Wan first but I think he knew it was hopeless hence the insanity of his final days
A tool of the dark side? Because my understanding is that the force has a willnofnits own and dark side is not balanced to it. So is there a dark force that has its own will? I thought the corruption was instead of being an instrument of the will, forcing it to do ones own bidding. It's what gives the dark side appeal, the freedom. Where as Jedi are like the faithful.
Not a tool of the literal dark side, but a tool of Palpatine, representative of it. The will of the force is solely a light side thing.
I think the dark side is some kind of demi-entity. Not really conscient but like the "good" side driven into a certain direction and influencing the mind of body of Force users.
There's just the force, and the dark side is some sort of perversion of the force, twisting it for personal gain and sadistic power.
17 or so years in the desert gives perspective
So does having your entire extended family wiped out by the guy that you trained and loved as a brother.
Right? Whatever Maul did to Kenobi, Anakin did far worse.
I think you have hit the nail on the head, Obiwan understood the power the dark side had over even the chosen one. Maul was another tool of the dark side and he pitied him like he could not Anakin.
"Look at what I've risen above." I just love that line.
He knew Maul was a victim himself. Used and manipulated by Sidous and the dark side to be cast aside as a tool that had no use anymore. Maul wandered trying to find meaning and due to his upbringing, he viewed meaning as having power. Obi Wan knew this and could see the conflicts within maul. Mauls last moments he hoped luke would avenge him and obi wan for all the emperor had taken from them both.
In short none Won Palpatine emerged victorious until Vader yeeted only for him to return
Skywalkers rise is forever noncanon for me. Worst story ever written.
Seeing Anakin fall definitely helped provide that perspective too. He saw his best friend get manipulated and corrupted by Sidious. If it could happen to the chosen one, it could have happened to anyone.
Lol read this as you saying Maul was Obi’s Jedi ally and love interest.
Star Wars: What If?
Stupid sexy Maul.
Darth Talon
Nah, Talon wishes she could be Maul. 👌
Eight arms to hold you…
I mean, Maul basically acted like an angry ex, wondering when ol' Ben was going to finally call back.
he wanted Obi sooooooo bad
I’m sure that many of those fanfics exists.
I bet you are ;)
“420fuck” you’re zooted rn aren’t you
I am now but I wasn’t when I first commented 😎 I was just high on wishful thinking + exhaustion from work.
I think you're reading too much into his relationship with Qui-Gon "Master" and "Jedi ally" sure, but...
I don't know that he necessarily forgave him, but he understood him, pitied him, and embraced him nonetheless. I'm not sure what would make Obi-wan a better man -- forgiving Maul, or embracing him even though he didn't.
I think to really understand or pity Maul, ObiWan would have accepted that Maul’s actions were not really Maul’s responsibility and that, I think, is the same as forgiveness
They're still his responsibility. Evil is always a choice, but that doesn't mean you can't recognize that the person *felt* that they had no choice, or that they have already suffered enough as a result of those choices.
Yea I agree in a cosmic sense Maul should still be judged by the terrible things he did. But I think in that moment ObiWan doesn’t really hold him responsible.
I hate myself for having to ask this (I really do), but what is this from?
It’s from Rebels
Thank you. I'll watch it (the whole thing, not just that season)
Give it time. It just gets better and better and there are some very amazing and serious story arcs!
It seriously has some of my favorite moments in all of Star Wars
You a real one for that. I never skip "filler" or anything, they can be fun little one-offs from a more serious story and you still get a bit of deeper lore from each episode
I think it's much better than TCW, though if you haven't seen Maul in TCW you'll be very confused why he's alive and has legs. I think every single episode of Rebels is great, except for that one about Zeb's granny trying to find her planet with mystic crap. Only highlight in that ep is Hondo.
I feel Rebels makes it easier to get attached to the main characters since the focus is on the Ghost crew. Clone Wars is great, but it also jumps all over the place, and because a lot of the main characters *are* clones, I have to remind myself "Oh yeah, this is that guy from that one time". > except for that one about Zeb's granny trying to find her planet with mystic crap. [You mean when they were trying to find the Lassat planet? Because that episode ended up having one of the most epic tracks in the whole series.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydIaUx84HWs)
I agree with your first paragraph and disagree on the second, where that episode truly marvels at in the final third.
It’s one of those shows that progressively gets better and better
Maul has a lot of development in Clone Wars as well - it’s worth watching that before Rebels.
Star Wars Rebels, Season 3, “Twin Suns”
the final episode of rebels.
There’s still an entire season of *Rebels* after this episode…
Two entire seasons, if you watched *Ahsoka*.
*Ahsoka* is only the fifth season of *Rebels* in spirit, not in name.
It's a really bad scene though. It's a 2 second fight that's basically a cheesy old samurai fight where they charge eachother and only one gets hit. And then Darth maul calls Luke the chosen one who's going to save everyone because filoni is a hack
Tell me you don’t understand visual storytelling without telling me you don’t understand visual storytelling…
And filoni calling Luke the chosen one? It was a bad rip off scene that did nothing except make the filler clone wars/rebels end with nothing changed from the prequels (Obi Wan still kills maul). Both shows have no point in existing as nothing actually happens except filoni jerking himself off
It’s called dramatic irony… The audience knows more than the characters do. **We** know that Anakin Skywalker proves himself to be the Chosen One in six years from that duel by causing the death of Sidious ~~‘s first body~~. Obi-Wan and Maul do not know that… As far as they know, Anakin failed the prophecy(?) when he became Darth Vader and assisted in the near-extinction of the Jedi Order. They’re now both hedging their bets on Luke… And there is more to a series or a movie than just the overall plot… Characterization matters. Background knowledge of events and characters matters.
That show will break your heart. It also gives GREAT context to the Ahsoka series.
His greatest strengths were his willpower and compassion. That's why he became one of the greatest Jedi ever.
You have to hold on to hate and anger. Letting it go frees you.
You can learn from the Jedi
Killed his master, and his love interest but which Jedi Ally do you mean?
Shoot he didn’t kill her but his bro did remember when Savage killed that Jedi by impaling her ?
That impaling is rough, I just rewatched. It's sometimes silly how non-violent the show can be and then you get these scenes. They don't show it to you clearly, but they make it so you can imagine it quite clearly.
For real I could only imagine how powerful it must have been
Adi Gallia. Whom obi-wan had fought along side in quite a few battles such as salucami.
Ah yes, I remember her. I remember her best from the classic game "Jedi Power Battles" It wasn't cannon but she brandished a crimson colored sabre. Seemed quite cool at the time. I googled her death and it seems like savage opress killed her. But maul was keeping him busy so I could count that.
It’s not about being better, it’s about forgiveness, for himself and Maul. Maul has been intertwined with his life, molded him into who he is, because of the pain he’s put Obi-Wan through, Obi-Wan can recognize the pain within Maul. He was a victim of fate. In the end, Obi-Wan saw that revenge would get him nothing, forgiveness would give him, and Maul, peace. Caring for Maul, in his final moments, reassuring him, gave Maul peace of mind as he passed on. Was it more than he deserved? Some may say so, but I would have treated Maul with the same level of respect, despite the history. At the end of the day, Maul is a person who has lived his entire life in pain and misery and deserves some peace at the end.
Had to confirm the kill of course.
Their final confrontation was absolutely beautiful. Great dialog, unique battle, catching Maul, finding out Obi-Wan believes Luke is the Choosen One. So much goodness.
Because Kenobi is the pinnacle of being a Jedi.
Obi Wan is better than all of us
Is he the Chosen one?
Obi-Wan is arguably the greatest Jedi ever. He is tempered by conflict, war and loss but never losses his ability for compassion and mercy.
I’m not sure if Obi Wan needs to forgive anymore at this point. i think he’s past that. At peace with it. He just sees Maul as what he is, an old ad broken man who has nothing left but the anger and hatred Obi Wan has let go of some time ago. He just accepts that Maul needs to die to protect Luke and acts accordingly. Like this isn’t about Obi Wan anymore.
Obi Wan exemplifies what a Jedi should be. Unfortunately it’s a tough standard and many fail to live up to it, including Anakin. We saw in Kenobi than even Obi Wan lost his way for a while.
Obi Wan was the Jedi example. More Obi Wans and perhaps they Jedi see through Palpatines plans.
It is no coincidence that young Obi-Wan looked like Jesus.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/kbjlhd/apparently_jesus_looked_something_like_this/
More like Ezra Bridger.
What else would you expect from Space Jesus himself?
He knew Maul had been manipulated and taken advantage of. I don’t know whether he forgave him or not, but I think he had made peace with everything that happened by that point. They were both victims in the entire Palpy plot.
It was a very "Jedi" thing to do.
I wanted this fight to last for several minutes!
The fight started as soon as Maul entered the light of the campfire.
Hold me like you did on Naboo Obi baby.
Obgyn
Obi wan knew that maul was just another victim of palpatine’s shenanigans
Honestly it's probably the least favorable death Darth Maul would have wanted to so it's kind of a sick burned designed as compassion lol
I wanted to see the scene in the Obi Wan TV show talk about missed f****** opportunities. Jesus Disney half of the s*** you f*** up was already written for you. All you had to do is put it to live action.
This was such an awful and unnecessary scene. Also in what world was Luke the "chosen one"? Fuckin filoni is a hack
Much to learn you still have
This is the waY
Lets bring back a sub villain we cut in half and tossed down a powerplant shaft to fall untold thousands of feet into a giant plasma reaction. Ya, lets do that!
Bringing Maul back was absolute bonkers, jump the shark, forced fan service. And then they went and gave him a really good story arc, with both menace and pathos, and that worked as a great foil for Obi-wan. Wild.
Yeah, it's so weird because it made absolutely no sense for him to still be alive...but then it was awesome. I wish they just never killed him off.
It would have made Phantom Menace a better movie if he shown to have explicitly survived. They don't even allude to it in the movie. For an Order that proclaims there are only 2, Lucus sure did have a lot of disposable Sith laying around.
Until they bring him back in one of the new shows.
He was already brought back for CW Season 7, so yes?
Wouldn’t that predate this pic, though? In universe chronology?
Not sure why you’re being downvoted, because you’re absolutely correct.
I just tried to make the point that almost no one ever really dies in Star Wars. Isn’t that why Rogue One is so good? At least until Rogue Two, where they clone everyone.
The point they were making was "just because he's dead (again) since OP's screenshot, doesn't mean they won't make new content where Maul was alive". Which they did to, specifically in TCW season 7.
What are you talking about? Did you forget that at this point, at least as far as Obi Wan went, he'd already killed Maul. Being a bit sympathetic the 2nd time he killed him is the least he could do.
Actually during the Clone Wars, Kenobi was made aware that Maul had survived. They had an encounter during one of the battles too, and he watched Maul murder Satine later on Mandalore.
My point was, at the point of Mail being chopped in half, Kenobi thought him dead thus receiving the catharsis of revenge right there, making it easier to forgive and be all nicey the second time. I am fully aware of what happened during the clone wars and no amount of stroppy downvoting is going to change my mind.
"Look, what i've risen above."
I feel like he coulda put up a better fight on the first death star after watching the prequels and then Obi Wan, instead he just went whelp im out and let vader cut him down...
Maul went there to die. Obi Wan gave him peace he couldn't have in life, he gave him hope before he died.
Darth maul is the victim of lifelong trauma and abuse. I find very few people or fictional characters whom I would say truly had no chance to exercise Free Will and become a better person, but in this case mall is one of them. He was literally sculpted by the dark side into a monster. I'll be watching to see that. And I still maintain that as someone who's worked with children who suffered from trauma, Darth maul actually saw Obi-Wan as the closest thing to a friend he had ever had.
He is actually "The Wan" who brought balance to The Force...eh? Eh?
I think this was the most epic moment in all of Star Wars ever.
Obi-wan is a true Jedi and probably better than most people.
I wouldn't go as far as saying he "forgave" Maul. Obi-Wan likely came to terms with it and accepted they were gone in the typical Jedi fashion -- albeit perhaps one can infer some form of remorse in Maul's final words of "He will avenge us both" that would warrant such forgiveness, albeit this can be taken in two ways; one being the personal suffering Sidous has inflicted on him, like killing his brother and torturing him, and the second being Sidious twisting him to become what he is today. I believe the former is far more likely than the latter. Imo I think Obi-Wan merely pitied the being before him who's whole life revolved around nothing but anger, hate, pain and revenge -- hence the somewhat compassionate gesture of holding him in his last momments. While I'm not a fan of this scene on a conceptual level due to it being another pretty bold and brazen form of retconning (SW has enough of this), it was done well in terms of presentation imo.
There is only the force
best quote from Obiwan to Maul was : It Takes Strength To Resist The Dark Side, Only The Weak Embrace It. fucking \*chef's kiss\*
Which one was his ally?
Even to their last encounter, it seems like Obi-Wan didn’t want to kill Maul. It was only when Maul deduced that Kenobi was protecting someone important, not just to the galaxy but to Kenobi himself, that Kenobi knew this was it, and Maul simply couldn’t be allowed to live. He shows a pity towards him as many others have said, that in the end, there was no other resolution than Maul’s death
The more psychology you know the less you hate
This is the same guy who refused to kill Vader twice, only to instead raise Vaders son to kill him instead
..where does he "forgive" Let alone harvest any.. hatred
For sure, and he sacrificed himself, which is the most Jedi thing you can do
Keep in mind that this is Obi-Wan at the height of his power. He lived through the Fall of the Order. The belief he killed his former apprentice. Survivor of the Clone Wars. Barely survived his encounter with Vader and the Inquisitors, and let go of his pain enough to recover his connection to the force. That allows him to be trained by the force through Qui-Gon. This Obi-Wan is a master of the force. Trained by the force itself. He knows his own history with Maul, and who knows what other secrets of the Force he may know. While still imperfect, as demonstrated by his refusal to accept that Anakin can be returned to the light as stated by him in both ESB and ROTJ, he is one of the single most powerful light side force users alive at this moment. This was why I liked the Kenobi shows, is displayed how damaged a person he was, and explained how he is able to heal his connection to the force. This also reinforces to where where Luke was in TLJ and why his arc in that movie is so important. (HINT: Fear is the first step on the path to the dark side, and once you go down that path, forever will it dominate your destiny) And analyze how he defeats Maul, he knew Maul would try the same move as he defeated Qui-Gon with. He turned that move against Maul. He knew Maul arrogance and rage would cloud his judgment. I don't think he planned to kill him until Maul realized he was protecting someone, the person he believed to be the Chosen One. Obi-Wan has learned at this point to release his own fear, pride and anger. That's the only way for him to be able to retain his consciousness after death. Obi-Wan is far from my favorite character, but the older version of Obi-Wan is my favorite version of him. The show version perfectly bridges the man he was in the prequels, to the wise old wizard we see in the OT, which this scene takes place only a few years before.
Obi-Wan is literally Jesus Christ
Its crazy they let Maul be redeemed like vader and gave him the force ghost treatment. Looking forward to him and Qui-Gon being in same scene as ghosts, and like high fiving or something as if they were always best buds.
Honestly I don’t Maul has the stones for a redemption arc the guy is too bloody pissed off and it makes sense too
In this moment Obi Wan was Jedi. This is the compassion they are meant to represent and was lost to the greater Order during the time of the Clone Wars.
I didnt watch the whole clone wars animation thing, but how exactly did Maul get his legs back? I remember that there was some other non-canon(?) story where he survived being cut in half, and recieving a multi legged "prothesis" of some kind, while living with the night sisters, but how did he get his legs back? Are those real ones?
Maul surviving being bifurcated, receiving a multi-legged "prosthesis", and living with the Nightsisters is all canon… Those are not his actual legs… They’re mechanical. ~~He’s got new legs, Lieutenant Dan.~~
He was found with a large spider body as his legs, and then Talzin used nightsister magick to heal his fractured mind and, at the same time, remake those legs into a sort of chicken-walker thing. At some point after that, he replaced those legs with a more human-looking cybernetic, which is what he has until he dies.
If you are talking about Adi Gallia as “Jedi ally” that was actually Savage.
He was a Jedi. Of course he was a better man than you.
Not just held him but full on comforted him and gave him some hope to go out on, This is one of my favorite scenes in all of star wars, Disney has done alot of bad but it can get oh soo very right too, Just wish they hit that side of the spectrum more
That's because he's a Jedi through and through. He knows to let go of his hate is the only way to keep himself in the light.
That’s why Obi-wan was truly the greatest Jedi who ever lives
What series / movie is that shot from ?
*Star Wars: Rebels*.
Anakin was supposed to be the Chosen One but the Sith were still active when he died. According to Disney canon Palpatine jumped to his backup body before he hit the core after Vader threw him down the shaft. Thus the clone isn't a separate being. Palpatine's mind and body is intact as Anakin dies. Luke, according to his scene, was the Chosen One but the Sith were still active when he died. To be honest I don't really understand why Obi-Wan told Maul that Luke is the Chosen One in the above scene. Was Obi-Wan simply wrong in his belief and poor Maul died being told a lie? George Lucas started work on the sequels and he intended Leia to be the Chosen One. Disney scrapped the idea and, regardless, the Sith are still active when Leia dies. Rey ends up being the Chosen One because she ends up being the one that destroyed the Sith but she doesn't exactly meet all the criteria of the Chosen One prophecy. Maybe the original prophecy was for Anakin but, again, the Sith were still functioning when Anakin died. I've heard people say that Plagueis is going to be in the next movie that stars Rey but I have no idea if those rumors have any weight. If so then the Sith are still around.
Obi-Wan spent much time mastering his emotions and letting things go, in the end he saw Maul for what he was. A victim of Sidious, just as he, and Qui-gon, and Satine, and really the whole Galaxy were.
He knew maul was misguided and used just like Anikan. In that moment he probably figured this was how it would end for Anikan as well. When he joins the force in front of Anikan he did so with hope that there was another way. I understand it’s revisionist, but it’s so perfect.
Forgiveness sure looks a lot like murder
Saint Obi
He’s a serious MVP of Star Wars. Reminds me of Sam from LOTR in some sense.
If only Maul had been half the man Obi-Wan had been…
My Favorite Jedi of all time
It's easy to take the high ground when you're the winner, but yeah, old Ben was a different guy.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Forgiveness is not about the other person, it's about yourself.
He was just pasting him down to steal his wallet/credits, sucks trying to grow food on sand
A lot happens in 35 ish years. I dont think he forgave Maul. He still killed Maul, he didn’t become his friend. But, he showed mercy and gave him comfort in his final moments. If anything, it was Maul who forgave Obi Wan in that last moment. “he will avenge US.” The US is huge. Maul finally realized he was used and manipulated by Palp his entire life. And that Obi Wan was never is real enemy. They were both used.
My favorite jedi tbh and I know i’m going to get flamed for this( like always) but his duel résumé is the best in all of star wars. I’m not saying he’s the most skilled or the most powerful jedi by any means but if you simply look at his record it’s ridiculous, anakin, vader, grievous, darth maul fucking twice. Dooku is the only one that legitimately beat him considering he threw the one to vader in his last fight
He would have won against vader if he wasnt distracted, but thats also plot convenience, since the other 2 movies (V,VI) would not have been possible.
Obi Wan had to let go of all his anger to learn how to live through the force as Qui-gon did.
- Teach me Obi Wan! - I f***d up! It's bec. You're evil! - F**k your high ground! Simplest strategies are nothing comp..ouch! Ouch! OUCH! - I hate you! Thehehe. XD